I miss being able to fire up CoX and troll heroes :I Being able to be evil and troll the good guys was the best thing Cryptic ever did
I think Champions is a far superior game in my opinion but City deserves a better than the fate it got
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with your thinking that, Nepht.
I just disagree. I played CoH for six and a half years, loving every minute of it. When the news came out that this game was in the works, I was skeptical, but as with everything, I was reserving judgement until I could actually play the game.
Launch date hits and I wait about a month for the fervor to die down and perhaps launch bugs to get fixed and then I come see for myself......and immediately hate the way the game looks. I'm really not a big fan of this artist and art style Cryptic used for the game. I tried to work past it, but five hours in....I just couldn't stand looking at everything any more. I went home and didn't look back.
Flash forward to the shutdown announcement....and now I'm screwed for a superhero game. I tried DCUO first....and it's...well.....I like the art and environment and character models...but it's not customizable enough. Chat system is so wonky....not a fan of the mouse look model, either. It plays well enough but it's just....icky. I can't really put words to it.
So...that leaves this game. Champions Online. I'll admit freely it was with a great sense of reluctance that I loaded this game up and then waited through the patcher....and got smacked with the limited version of the greatest feature this game has to offer. Character creation. Once more, I played through the intro and set foot in Mill City. This time, however....I knew that if I wanted to scratch my superhero itch....it was this game or nothing. Somehow, that knowledge removed any expectations I had of the game, and while I STILL hate the way it looks and can only take so much of it in one sitting...I can now at least enjoy game play. I've spent money unlocking costume parts, then when a subscription sale hit, I signed up, because the game's features that are unlocked are worth at least ten bucks a month to me.
Flash forward several more months, and financial difficulties hit..so I cut my sub. No more freeforms, and only four character slots. Not to mention a lot of costume pieces are no longer available to me. But, I slog on, for just one reason.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
There's nothing else out there.
No great love for the game or its mechanics.....just that if I don't play this...there's no other superhero game worth my dime and time at the moment.
I realize there's a bunch of you that really love this game, and that's actually great. Makes for better game play for everyone involved when the community feels that way about the game.
I've explained my feelings about the game a couple times before, and I'll probably do so again. No big deal for me. I don't begrudge anyone else for loving this game and thinking it's better than its former competition. All I ask is the same consideration in thinking my former home was the better of the two games. I love my City and I miss it.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with your thinking that, Nepht.
I just disagree. I played CoH for six and a half years, loving every minute of it. When the news came out that this game was in the works, I was skeptical, but as with everything, I was reserving judgement until I could actually play the game.
Launch date hits and I wait about a month for the fervor to die down and perhaps launch bugs to get fixed and then I come see for myself......and immediately hate the way the game looks. I'm really not a big fan of this artist and art style Cryptic used for the game. I tried to work past it, but five hours in....I just couldn't stand looking at everything any more. I went home and didn't look back.
Flash forward to the shutdown announcement....and now I'm screwed for a superhero game. I tried DCUO first....and it's...well.....I like the art and environment and character models...but it's not customizable enough. Chat system is so wonky....not a fan of the mouse look model, either. It plays well enough but it's just....icky. I can't really put words to it.
So...that leaves this game. Champions Online. I'll admit freely it was with a great sense of reluctance that I loaded this game up and then waited through the patcher....and got smacked with the limited version of the greatest feature this game has to offer. Character creation. Once more, I played through the intro and set foot in Mill City. This time, however....I knew that if I wanted to scratch my superhero itch....it was this game or nothing. Somehow, that knowledge removed any expectations I had of the game, and while I STILL hate the way it looks and can only take so much of it in one sitting...I can now at least enjoy game play. I've spent money unlocking costume parts, then when a subscription sale hit, I signed up, because the game's features that are unlocked are worth at least ten bucks a month to me.
Flash forward several more months, and financial difficulties hit..so I cut my sub. No more freeforms, and only four character slots. Not to mention a lot of costume pieces are no longer available to me. But, I slog on, for just one reason.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
There's nothing else out there.
No great love for the game or its mechanics.....just that if I don't play this...there's no other superhero game worth my dime and time at the moment.
I realize there's a bunch of you that really love this game, and that's actually great. Makes for better game play for everyone involved when the community feels that way about the game.
I've explained my feelings about the game a couple times before, and I'll probably do so again. No big deal for me. I don't begrudge anyone else for loving this game and thinking it's better than its former competition. All I ask is the same consideration in thinking my former home was the better of the two games. I love my City and I miss it.
Completely understandable. As much as I love the actual gameplay mechanics (pace of combat + build customization) have to use full masks or helmets for every character in order to avoid being turned off by the art style for character faces.
The game is fun to play, but just too cartoony (IMO of course) in its art direction and much of its original story telling.
I was not as put off by DCU as many other here. I found it to be pretty darned enjoyable. But then again I am a simple color scheme tights kinda superhero type of player so the limited options worked reasonably well for me. Ultimately what decided me against staying there is a general lack of interest in the DC universe and being a sidekick (generally the very narrow scope of character origin as well).
All I see are ugly pixely textures somewhat covered up by the glaring glow of a thousand suns. Or you're running CO at anything other than maximum settings. I think you might need to get your eyes checked.
You know what I'd love to do with Foundry? Make a mission series of typical high fantasy, but all the characters are robots. Robot elves, robot dwarves...
Hee.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Probably doesn't help that he says things like: "Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!" and "nothing was polished".
In a frank interview with Massively (via VG247), Emmert admitted that "nothing was polished" in the developer's last two MMOs - Champions Online and Star Trek Online - and that they contained "hundreds of hours of mediocre content".
Oh, Jack. At least your honest.
Jack, you do know that you can still improve CO....right? RIGHT? ;-;
That admission took place over two years ago. If it was going to happen it would have happened already.
That's the really frustrating part -- they know that there's a problem, they know what the problems are, they know what they need to do to fix things. They just ... don't think our desires are worth it.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Probably doesn't help that he says things like: "Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!" and "nothing was polished".
Jack should be interested in acquiring the guts to make CO the #1 superhero MMO.
*buys more zen to put into CO*
Well said its rival only has one thing going for it ( Kevin Conroy ) . Other than that CO is the better game and if Cryptic pulled it finger out its arse and fix some things and promote it more it would be the number one -.-
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!" and "nothing was polished".
This is why it annoys me when ppl on the forums are shouted down for asking for more content with the reply "you still haven't done EVERY mission".
Many players have not done EVERY mission but its not hard to do every mission that's worth doing.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Probably doesn't help that he says things like: "Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!" and "nothing was polished".
Back Alley Brawler, Doc Aeon, Castle, and I think Synapse. Tumerboy was an env artist, as seen on the original box credits for CoH. Some who didn't talk at all on CoH forums, too.
So maybe not everyone, but there are some.
There's also:
Craig Zinkievich - Chief Operating Officer
Al Rivera - Lead Designer (Now CaptainGeko on STO, formerly Geko)
Thomas Foss - Senior Game Designer (Formerly Archon Voss)
Probably doesn't help that he says things like: "Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!" and "nothing was polished".
Despite weak initial launch, STO actually has LOTS of stuff, now.
I've been zipping through, trying to skip content that I've already done dozens of times on other characters, and reflecting on how much story there is. What's nice is that in addition to story, there are lots of other things to work on, like duty officers, working on builds and gear, pvp (anemic, but way beyond the state of CO), and so on.
Plus, of course, the vast amount of offerings on STO-Foundry.
So, at least with STO, I'd argue Cryptic redeemed themselves. Sure, I have loads of complaints about STO, but they've clearly DONE STUFF.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
We'd say, "You kill them and something really good pops out!" So it's kind of the slot machine effect -- slot machines are inherently boring, but you keep playing them in hopes of getting something good out of it.
---
But what's happened over time is, quite frankly, World of ********. I think it's a very different marketplace now. Because of World of ********, the expectations are raised. So now with Champions and with Star Trek, we need to improve those games. We need to make them better. We're doing everything we can with our live team to improve the quality of gameplay. Not just to shove more content in, but to polish it.
With City of Heroes and City of Villains, that just wasn't the case. So mistakenly, arrogantly on my part, I just thought we could take these games and make them over and over again. And we did with Champions and Star Trek. They are so much better than City of Heroes was at launch, it's not even close. But just look at the review scores.
---
Well it's not that I thought the quality wasn't up to par, it's the customers and critics and everybody else, right? [laughs] All you have to do is go to Metacritic.com. It's not like we went out and said, "We're gonna make a really shi... mediocre game, and put in a box," no. We all thought that Star Trek Online was going to be phenomenal. We all thought that Champions was going to be phenomenal.
---
---
First up, Jack has stones for doing interviews where he points out his own mistakes.
Unfortunately, the optics of some of the quotes make it look like he's throwing CO (and even STO and CoX) under the bus.
I don't think he meant to be so negative, even when he called CO's power / combat system "arcane." I think, mostly, he's trying to make the point that Cryptic is learning as it goes. Cryptic doesn't get everything right (and, lord knows, they got a bunch wrong in both CO's release and its maintenance). He is, I believe, speaking like a gaming nerd. The s*** he says reads an awful lot like the s*** we say from time to time.
Going off on him seemingly dissing CO misses the point, however.
S*** like THIS is why you should be dissing him, "So now with Champions and with Star Trek, we need to improve those games. We need to make them better. We're doing everything we can with our live team to improve the quality of gameplay. Not just to shove more content in, but to polish it."
The dude's promises to his players are so weak as to be largely meaningless. And he no longer has the stones (desire?) to post here. That's what kills me.
Despite weak initial launch, STO actually has LOTS of stuff, now.
I've been zipping through, trying to skip content that I've already done dozens of times on other characters, and reflecting on how much story there is. What's nice is that in addition to story, there are lots of other things to work on, like duty officers, working on builds and gear, pvp (anemic, but way beyond the state of CO), and so on.
I've hit the point where one episode won't level you and it appears you get one episode per level.
The Klingon episodes were pretty much guaranteed to be one episode after another without any DOffing, let alone daily missions.
The Romulan ones are episode, pray your DOffs get some crit successes, resort to daily Q missions.
CO does have some dead levels if you're trying to do all of one zone and only one zone at a time but you can wander off to AP/CS or alerts as filler.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Pretty sure Jack just wants the IP. He doesn't want the game. Neverwinter is going to be released soon, and he's probably considering options for the next title.
I understand that Champions Online has more lore, but I liked the way City of Heroes translated it into a game better. You spend a lot of time fighting things that don't really feel that consequential in CO.
Jack's a character. CO is a fun game, and the engine is solid, increadibly scaleable, and new content can be implemented quickly. At the time there was nothing mediocre about their efforts - and Cryptic's on-budget/on-time commitment was a cold reality. The way the engine works is by design - calling the game mediocre after the fact is disengenuous, and reflects his current commitments - hell, he probably wants to depreciate it for his own gain at this point.
Regarding STO, it had some things about it that were rushed, but they made good on it.
Pretty sure Jack just wants the IP. He doesn't want the game. Neverwinter is going to be released soon, and he's probably considering options for the next title.
I understand that Champions Online has more lore, but I liked the way City of Heroes translated it into a game better. You spend a lot of time fighting things that don't really feel that consequential in CO.
That's story, that's not gameplay.
I think that's a huuuuuuuge confusion between CoX lovers and CO lovers.
When CoX players say "CoX was better" they mean it took itself seriously, the stories were well done, there was polish and thought to the environment and world being created, it was a fully realized world, and they preferred the art style over the more cartoony look of CO.
When CO players say "CO is better" they mean the gameplay is done better, the systems are a lot more in depth and developed, combat is more active, satisfying and versatile and the graphics are of much higher quality despite looking cartoony.
The problem is CO is mediocre in all the ways that it shouldn't be. Everything that worked in CoX was ignored in favor of **** knows what in CO - story, qualty, style, teaming, scale, personality, variety, etc. The only thing that ported over right was the character creator, which they've whittled down title by title because Cryptic is, generally speaking, completely ****ing ********.
It's miraculous the combat is as good as it is. The systems and elements for perfection are all there - customization from CO, tone, story, conveyance and scope of STO, and a mix of combat between CO and NW plus Foundry, and you can make any game you want (obviously, since they're all the same engine).
~"Coming into the launch of STO and Champions, I made sure we had something for everyone. Here was the problem. By following that philosophy, nothing was polished. We ended up having lots of half-done features in some quarters," Emmert said.
Emmert admitted that Cryptic had become known for its efficiency and speed rather than the quality of its games, and said he wanted to change that with Neverwinter."~
Soooo, why not change it with CO and STO too, why don'tcha? Throw some polish/bugfix/overhaul patches onto those ga-
Oh. Right. We need more -active- devs to put in the work for CO.
Okay, if Cryptic isn't willing to move devs around, then hire more. By all means, with the hundreds and hundreds of dollars being made with Lockboxes and such, would it really be THAT cost-ineffective?
Just another average RPer, costume part collector, and tabletop gamer.
Since both Jack Emmert and I have been getting questions about what he said at PAX East, we had a quick email conversation to figure out what went down (I wasn't at the panel).
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
Since both Jack Emmert and I have been getting questions about what he said at PAX East, we had a quick email conversation to figure out what went down (I wasn't at the panel).
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
Spiffy. How about all the other emails and questions?
I know, I know, the only reason this was even addressed is because CoX was actually successful and people actually care about it, and the other emails and questions are irrelevent.
There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
I didn't ever actually expect to get a response on this issue. Thanks for the update.
Now if only Cryptic's stance on adding foundry to CO was this unambiguous.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
There's no ambiguity, it's not going to happen, and they've never given any sort of indication otherwise except for another of Jack's off the cuff remarks about kickstarter or forum threads or some other nonsense.
There's no ambiguity, it's not going to happen, and they've never given any sort of indication otherwise except for another of Jack's off the cuff remarks about kickstarter or forum threads or some other nonsense.
Maybe your right.
sigh...
I just reinstalled Champs to get my 1000 day glow tights, made a costume, ran an alert or too, and realized that the small piece of new content is already gone and there is nothing else to do that i haven't done a 1000 times.
I suppose my foundry dreams are just wishful thinking.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
this game should be getting a state of the game that's open and honest about the future of CO. If a revolving door of (not very good) timed mini events is as good as it gets then I want to know so I can move on. I have no interest in continuing in a game that offers so little content. I realize Cryptic/PWE want my money and is probably the primary reason why they haven't come out with said state of the game, because why do that when you allow people to hang on to some shred of hope and hopefully have them spend some money on lockboxes?
this game should be getting a state of the game that's open and honest about the future of CO.
I'm pretty sure we have a pretty solid idea of the state of this game.
Otherwise, Cryptic has /always/ had a spotty record of communication. ALWAYS. What usually happens is that the company goes through bursts of relatively intense engagement mixed with (sometimes extended) periods of silence. The funny thing is that you can find Jack both saying that Cryptic has the best communication in the biz AND posts where he says the company has to do better. Maybe you can logically twist around your point of view so that the two views aren't self-contradictory, but ...
Anyway, I'll play devil's advocate.
What would happen if we had an upfront, honest SotG? "Hey, guys, look. We screwed up our release, botched the maintenance, and continued to produce unpolished crap. And then we started treating you like marks at a carnival with our tax on the mathematically-challenged, AKA lockboxes. I don't have much in the way of long-term plans for you. Mostly, we're trying to keep the lights on with a limited production budget. We're porting over what we can, as cheap as possible, from our other games. The future looks bland, but we feel we're producing a top 2 product in the crowded superhero MMO field."
The haters would still hate. The true fans would say, "Good enough for me, great job on being honest!" And the folks in the middle would roll their eyes. It'd be like the status quo with a side of dev-inflicted negativity.
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
while i respect him loving city of. it is obvious he has no love for this game. because if he did tis game would not be in this sorry state that it is in.
This game had such incredible potential. Seeing is squandered is horrible.
What's more horrible is when the head honcho pretty much confirms that he thinks your favorite game is crap. I don't want him to touch CoX again. Hell, I barely want him around this game, STO or NWO. I had a pretty low opinion of him before, but recently that opinion has gotten WAY lower.
-Campaign: Spells and Coin
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
Since both Jack Emmert and I have been getting questions about what he said at PAX East, we had a quick email conversation to figure out what went down (I wasn't at the panel).
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
The fact remains that, if Jack got the call, there are a lot of people who are ready and willing to support any effort, be it by Cryptic/PWE or independently, to help with initial financial support, as well as continued subscriptions. You have a panel of industry leaders who unanimously and enthusiastically agree that the game should never have been shuttered (one of whom is in the awkward position of being beholden to the company that axed it). While it's not salvation for the legions of CoX fans, I reject the notion that it nothing to get excited about.
While I don't think the game would see any better treatment than this game is currently getting, an open, active game is an improvement over a bunch of data sitting on a storage drive somewhere. (For legal reasons, they have to retain the code and other copyrighted elements for evidence if they want to successfully defend future copyright infringement.)
Ok as another Vet of 6+ yrs of coh and a 3 month player here ,have to say one thing.
1, The game mechanics of CoH and Co wont mix ,they are 2 different animals all together. CO is gear based as for City of heroes Is AT and recipie based.In order for them to mesh you would have to re write every single at code. So if you think about it honestly....you would have to spend millions just to get them close to being able to merge.Also the 2 games have different numbers when it comes to resists and def and attacks..In coh you stacked your resist and def manually thru recipie sets (and there were alot more choices than co has) so just making it gear based in cox would mean rewritting the whole game.
2, Most people do't know this but certain maps in CoH would make certain travel powers in CO usless. For example The Shadow Shard in CoH in certain areas would kill TP movement or attacks.Classic case for this were sheild tanks with tp attacks that were rendered usless around the outer area of the "Death Star" so sheild charge and lighting rod were null and void. Stone tanks/brutes were also befuddled with movement because of no tp,, if you dontknow stone tanks/brute movement lol lets just say back to the days of the hollows with just sprint would be faster. And thats Just a start of the maps that woud kill off powers.
so if you ask me a merger of the 2 would be more than a monumental task costing more than to just buy CoH and open it back up.....
Comments
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with your thinking that, Nepht.
I just disagree. I played CoH for six and a half years, loving every minute of it. When the news came out that this game was in the works, I was skeptical, but as with everything, I was reserving judgement until I could actually play the game.
Launch date hits and I wait about a month for the fervor to die down and perhaps launch bugs to get fixed and then I come see for myself......and immediately hate the way the game looks. I'm really not a big fan of this artist and art style Cryptic used for the game. I tried to work past it, but five hours in....I just couldn't stand looking at everything any more. I went home and didn't look back.
Flash forward to the shutdown announcement....and now I'm screwed for a superhero game. I tried DCUO first....and it's...well.....I like the art and environment and character models...but it's not customizable enough. Chat system is so wonky....not a fan of the mouse look model, either. It plays well enough but it's just....icky. I can't really put words to it.
So...that leaves this game. Champions Online. I'll admit freely it was with a great sense of reluctance that I loaded this game up and then waited through the patcher....and got smacked with the limited version of the greatest feature this game has to offer. Character creation. Once more, I played through the intro and set foot in Mill City. This time, however....I knew that if I wanted to scratch my superhero itch....it was this game or nothing. Somehow, that knowledge removed any expectations I had of the game, and while I STILL hate the way it looks and can only take so much of it in one sitting...I can now at least enjoy game play. I've spent money unlocking costume parts, then when a subscription sale hit, I signed up, because the game's features that are unlocked are worth at least ten bucks a month to me.
Flash forward several more months, and financial difficulties hit..so I cut my sub. No more freeforms, and only four character slots. Not to mention a lot of costume pieces are no longer available to me. But, I slog on, for just one reason.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
There's nothing else out there.
No great love for the game or its mechanics.....just that if I don't play this...there's no other superhero game worth my dime and time at the moment.
I realize there's a bunch of you that really love this game, and that's actually great. Makes for better game play for everyone involved when the community feels that way about the game.
I've explained my feelings about the game a couple times before, and I'll probably do so again.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Completely understandable. As much as I love the actual gameplay mechanics (pace of combat + build customization) have to use full masks or helmets for every character in order to avoid being turned off by the art style for character faces.
The game is fun to play, but just too cartoony (IMO of course) in its art direction and much of its original story telling.
I was not as put off by DCU as many other here. I found it to be pretty darned enjoyable. But then again I am a simple color scheme tights kinda superhero type of player so the limited options worked reasonably well for me. Ultimately what decided me against staying there is a general lack of interest in the DC universe and being a sidekick (generally the very narrow scope of character origin as well).
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
All I see are ugly pixely textures somewhat covered up by the glaring glow of a thousand suns. Or you're running CO at anything other than maximum settings. I think you might need to get your eyes checked.
You know what I'd love to do with Foundry? Make a mission series of typical high fantasy, but all the characters are robots. Robot elves, robot dwarves...
Hee.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-24-cryptic-we-need-to-improve-for-neverwinter
I mean seriously?!..... DO something about this title Jack!.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
At least your honest.
Jack, you do know that you can still improve CO....right? RIGHT? ;-;
Speechless.
That admission took place over two years ago. If it was going to happen it would have happened already.
That's the really frustrating part -- they know that there's a problem, they know what the problems are, they know what they need to do to fix things. They just ... don't think our desires are worth it.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Wow. That's terrible. How the hell is this guy in charge of a company?
Jack should be interested in acquiring the guts to make CO the #1 superhero MMO.
*buys more zen to put into CO*
Well said its rival only has one thing going for it ( Kevin Conroy ) . Other than that CO is the better game and if Cryptic pulled it finger out its arse and fix some things and promote it more it would be the number one -.-
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This is why it annoys me when ppl on the forums are shouted down for asking for more content with the reply "you still haven't done EVERY mission".
Many players have not done EVERY mission but its not hard to do every mission that's worth doing.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Part of the problem since December, 2012.
They're called Perks here.
its all who you know basically
the man needs do 1 of 2 things,
1. be replaced
2. get his act together
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
I pointed out that they were losing players because they couldn't find it.
Someone actually had to ask here on the forums how to find it.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
And their solution...
Release "temporary" mediocre content...
that's not polished.
Yeah... that's the ticket.
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
There's also:
Craig Zinkievich - Chief Operating Officer
Al Rivera - Lead Designer (Now CaptainGeko on STO, formerly Geko)
Thomas Foss - Senior Game Designer (Formerly Archon Voss)
Well. I now have an addition to my sig!
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
I've been zipping through, trying to skip content that I've already done dozens of times on other characters, and reflecting on how much story there is. What's nice is that in addition to story, there are lots of other things to work on, like duty officers, working on builds and gear, pvp (anemic, but way beyond the state of CO), and so on.
Plus, of course, the vast amount of offerings on STO-Foundry.
So, at least with STO, I'd argue Cryptic redeemed themselves. Sure, I have loads of complaints about STO, but they've clearly DONE STUFF.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I've been posting the link to that interview for years, http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/08/23/massively-exclusive-jack-emmert-speaks-about-neverwinter-and-a/ .
But I think that interview works best in conjunction with this one, http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6041/not_so_cryptic_neverwinter_and_a_.php?print=1
Some quotes:
We'd say, "You kill them and something really good pops out!" So it's kind of the slot machine effect -- slot machines are inherently boring, but you keep playing them in hopes of getting something good out of it.
---
But what's happened over time is, quite frankly, World of ********. I think it's a very different marketplace now. Because of World of ********, the expectations are raised. So now with Champions and with Star Trek, we need to improve those games. We need to make them better. We're doing everything we can with our live team to improve the quality of gameplay. Not just to shove more content in, but to polish it.
With City of Heroes and City of Villains, that just wasn't the case. So mistakenly, arrogantly on my part, I just thought we could take these games and make them over and over again. And we did with Champions and Star Trek. They are so much better than City of Heroes was at launch, it's not even close. But just look at the review scores.
---
Well it's not that I thought the quality wasn't up to par, it's the customers and critics and everybody else, right? [laughs] All you have to do is go to Metacritic.com. It's not like we went out and said, "We're gonna make a really shi... mediocre game, and put in a box," no. We all thought that Star Trek Online was going to be phenomenal. We all thought that Champions was going to be phenomenal.
---
---
First up, Jack has stones for doing interviews where he points out his own mistakes.
Unfortunately, the optics of some of the quotes make it look like he's throwing CO (and even STO and CoX) under the bus.
I don't think he meant to be so negative, even when he called CO's power / combat system "arcane." I think, mostly, he's trying to make the point that Cryptic is learning as it goes. Cryptic doesn't get everything right (and, lord knows, they got a bunch wrong in both CO's release and its maintenance). He is, I believe, speaking like a gaming nerd. The s*** he says reads an awful lot like the s*** we say from time to time.
Going off on him seemingly dissing CO misses the point, however.
S*** like THIS is why you should be dissing him, "So now with Champions and with Star Trek, we need to improve those games. We need to make them better. We're doing everything we can with our live team to improve the quality of gameplay. Not just to shove more content in, but to polish it."
The dude's promises to his players are so weak as to be largely meaningless. And he no longer has the stones (desire?) to post here. That's what kills me.
I've hit the point where one episode won't level you and it appears you get one episode per level.
The Klingon episodes were pretty much guaranteed to be one episode after another without any DOffing, let alone daily missions.
The Romulan ones are episode, pray your DOffs get some crit successes, resort to daily Q missions.
CO does have some dead levels if you're trying to do all of one zone and only one zone at a time but you can wander off to AP/CS or alerts as filler.
I understand that Champions Online has more lore, but I liked the way City of Heroes translated it into a game better. You spend a lot of time fighting things that don't really feel that consequential in CO.
Regarding STO, it had some things about it that were rushed, but they made good on it.
Why is it all our new content has to be put on a time-restricted carousel?
To make them seem more epic I suppose. Though, it wouldn't hurt anyone to leave them in the active in the system.
That's story, that's not gameplay.
I think that's a huuuuuuuge confusion between CoX lovers and CO lovers.
When CoX players say "CoX was better" they mean it took itself seriously, the stories were well done, there was polish and thought to the environment and world being created, it was a fully realized world, and they preferred the art style over the more cartoony look of CO.
When CO players say "CO is better" they mean the gameplay is done better, the systems are a lot more in depth and developed, combat is more active, satisfying and versatile and the graphics are of much higher quality despite looking cartoony.
The problem is CO is mediocre in all the ways that it shouldn't be. Everything that worked in CoX was ignored in favor of **** knows what in CO - story, qualty, style, teaming, scale, personality, variety, etc. The only thing that ported over right was the character creator, which they've whittled down title by title because Cryptic is, generally speaking, completely ****ing ********.
It's miraculous the combat is as good as it is. The systems and elements for perfection are all there - customization from CO, tone, story, conveyance and scope of STO, and a mix of combat between CO and NW plus Foundry, and you can make any game you want (obviously, since they're all the same engine).
Man, I'm totally way off point....
Yeah, story and gameplay segragation.
Emmert admitted that Cryptic had become known for its efficiency and speed rather than the quality of its games, and said he wanted to change that with Neverwinter."~
Soooo, why not change it with CO and STO too, why don'tcha? Throw some polish/bugfix/overhaul patches onto those ga-
Oh. Right. We need more -active- devs to put in the work for CO.
Okay, if Cryptic isn't willing to move devs around, then hire more. By all means, with the hundreds and hundreds of dollars being made with Lockboxes and such, would it really be THAT cost-ineffective?
Looking for a lore-based Superhero RPSG? Why not http://earth-guard.shivtr.com/?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's a valid question - I remember the biggest bullet point about the engine was "being able to ramp up new content quickly".
They still "ramp up" those special events don't they?
Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Spiffy. How about all the other emails and questions?
I know, I know, the only reason this was even addressed is because CoX was actually successful and people actually care about it, and the other emails and questions are irrelevent.
I didn't ever actually expect to get a response on this issue. Thanks for the update.
Now if only Cryptic's stance on adding foundry to CO was this unambiguous.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
sigh...
I just reinstalled Champs to get my 1000 day glow tights, made a costume, ran an alert or too, and realized that the small piece of new content is already gone and there is nothing else to do that i haven't done a 1000 times.
I suppose my foundry dreams are just wishful thinking.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Otherwise, Cryptic has /always/ had a spotty record of communication. ALWAYS. What usually happens is that the company goes through bursts of relatively intense engagement mixed with (sometimes extended) periods of silence. The funny thing is that you can find Jack both saying that Cryptic has the best communication in the biz AND posts where he says the company has to do better. Maybe you can logically twist around your point of view so that the two views aren't self-contradictory, but ...
Anyway, I'll play devil's advocate.
What would happen if we had an upfront, honest SotG? "Hey, guys, look. We screwed up our release, botched the maintenance, and continued to produce unpolished crap. And then we started treating you like marks at a carnival with our tax on the mathematically-challenged, AKA lockboxes. I don't have much in the way of long-term plans for you. Mostly, we're trying to keep the lights on with a limited production budget. We're porting over what we can, as cheap as possible, from our other games. The future looks bland, but we feel we're producing a top 2 product in the crowded superhero MMO field."
The haters would still hate. The true fans would say, "Good enough for me, great job on being honest!" And the folks in the middle would roll their eyes. It'd be like the status quo with a side of dev-inflicted negativity.
while i respect him loving city of. it is obvious he has no love for this game. because if he did tis game would not be in this sorry state that it is in.
What's more horrible is when the head honcho pretty much confirms that he thinks your favorite game is crap. I don't want him to touch CoX again. Hell, I barely want him around this game, STO or NWO. I had a pretty low opinion of him before, but recently that opinion has gotten WAY lower.
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
The fact remains that, if Jack got the call, there are a lot of people who are ready and willing to support any effort, be it by Cryptic/PWE or independently, to help with initial financial support, as well as continued subscriptions. You have a panel of industry leaders who unanimously and enthusiastically agree that the game should never have been shuttered (one of whom is in the awkward position of being beholden to the company that axed it). While it's not salvation for the legions of CoX fans, I reject the notion that it nothing to get excited about.
While I don't think the game would see any better treatment than this game is currently getting, an open, active game is an improvement over a bunch of data sitting on a storage drive somewhere. (For legal reasons, they have to retain the code and other copyrighted elements for evidence if they want to successfully defend future copyright infringement.)
Part of the problem since December, 2012.
1, The game mechanics of CoH and Co wont mix ,they are 2 different animals all together. CO is gear based as for City of heroes Is AT and recipie based.In order for them to mesh you would have to re write every single at code. So if you think about it honestly....you would have to spend millions just to get them close to being able to merge.Also the 2 games have different numbers when it comes to resists and def and attacks..In coh you stacked your resist and def manually thru recipie sets (and there were alot more choices than co has) so just making it gear based in cox would mean rewritting the whole game.
2, Most people do't know this but certain maps in CoH would make certain travel powers in CO usless. For example The Shadow Shard in CoH in certain areas would kill TP movement or attacks.Classic case for this were sheild tanks with tp attacks that were rendered usless around the outer area of the "Death Star" so sheild charge and lighting rod were null and void. Stone tanks/brutes were also befuddled with movement because of no tp,, if you dontknow stone tanks/brute movement lol lets just say back to the days of the hollows with just sprint would be faster. And thats Just a start of the maps that woud kill off powers.
so if you ask me a merger of the 2 would be more than a monumental task costing more than to just buy CoH and open it back up.....
Call to Action: Massively comment simply says NCSoft Call Jack! -- Click "Like"!
Just ask 'em to click! Easiest Call to Action ever!
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion