In regards to TSW, no DEV has posted about stripping anyone of points.
No DEV has posted anything about it.
A forum volunteer mod, who stated she gave her *opinion* about the matter, does not make for an Official response from a dev.
Going Buy to Play to bring in new people, (since they desperately need the money), then setting up an event worldwide, that effects all the new people, too. (and not in a good way) Therefore driving off lots of new people, then going on holiday and saying.. "Oppsie, wish I would have thought that through better.. oh well.. we are on holiday till the 3rd." That's bad leadership. You can put on rose colored glasses all you want. But that doesn't change how much damage this did to all the "new revenue" they were looking to generate.
As for the, they went on holiday, do you expect them to come back for this?... well yes.
Considering they had this on test center and pointed out these flaws, (while they were still here and not on holiday) and pushed it through anyways.
Also, if your company is in dire straights and needs money so bad you have to change it's sub form to No sub needed, please we beg you play our game.. then yeah.. you stay home and FIX it. Not make it worse and then leave town.
Oh well, another MMO that will be closed in no time.
Apparently, the best way to make your grass look greener, is to convince yourself, and everyone else that all the other lawns on the neighborhood are just as dead. This will not help your game.
Apparently, the best way to make your grass look greener, is to convince yourself, and everyone else that all the other lawns on the neighborhood are just as dead. This will not help your game.
Both sides of the discussion would better served to restrict their discussion to CO, but people just cannot seem to avoid both comparison and analogy. Comparing a game to other games is always going to fail. Even the most popular MMO (based on both sub and concurrent user numbers) is thought to be a pile of steaming dung by some people. Comparison and analogy rarely do anything but derail threads.
So, sticking to CO, the Dev Tracker shows plenty of TT posts in the last month and a half, 3 or 4 one-liners by Splosions, 2-3 clarification posts by GCrush, and the odd post by Lordgar and/or Drannic related to maintenance and what-not. Nothing from Stokan, who would be the Leadership the post was about. So, we have communication, but not from the EProd and not talking about new stuff, which is the hot topic right now.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Apparently, the best way to make your grass look greener, is to convince yourself, and everyone else that all the other lawns on the neighborhood are just as dead. This will not help your game.
Wow thats some good advice you just gave yourself. No matter how badly you try to rubbish CO it wont change the fact TSW is the biggest MMO failurepants this year.
So glad you have seen sense.
Remember your the one that brought up TSW with your posts and your AV.
If you want to see good leadership and good communication, please allow me to quote this post, from Game Director Joel Bylos on the TSW forums:
I hope you're paying attention Stokman, that there is doing it right.
What exactly did you think would happen? Did you honestly think we would drop everything and suddenly start playing it? Theres a reason it went freemium in 8 weeks or something (thats gotta be a record).
For the record I have nothing against FUNCOM I do enjoy Age of Conan but TSW is no where near as good as that game.
I am not 100% sure your allowed to have an AV featuring TSW on a PWE forum as its MEANT to be a competitor to PWE's games.
And back to CO I think Thundrax has said elsewhere devs in general are all on holiday at the moment.
I dont think any game has leadership right now they are all too drunk.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Wow thats some good advice you just gave yourself. No matter how badly you try to rubbish CO it wont change the fact TSW is the biggest MMO failurepants this year.
So glad you have seen sense.
Remember your the one that brought up TSW with your posts and your AV.
What exactly did you think would happen? Did you honestly think we would drop everything and suddenly start playing it? Theres a reason it went freemium in 8 weeks or something (thats gotta be a record).
For the record I have nothing against FUNCOM I do enjoy Age of Conan but TSW is no where near as good as that game.
I am not 100% sure your allowed to have an AV featuring TSW on a PWE forum as its MEANT to be a competitor to PWE's games.
And back to CO I think Thundrax has said elsewhere devs in general are all on holiday at the moment.
I don't think any game has leadership right now they are all too drunk.
You're a real pro at jumping to conclusions, and spreading misinformation. Let me make a couple things clear:
I have no desire to try to convince people from CO to play TSW, or any other game, for that matter. I do not recommend this game to most people playing CO because the focus is too different. Other than those who have a modern setting as their primary interest, I do not believe these games share a mutual fanbase.
That being said, if I see another game doing something the right way (dev communication has always been something I've pointed out as something Funcom gets right, and CO gets WRONG.) I am going to bring up the comparison, especially since dev communication has been a real sore spot here for a long time.
If you want to get into real details, 6 months, and TSW went buy to play, not freemium, and the game is packed every day. The holiday event was awesome, and it'll be going for a week after this one shuts down.
And I can use any ****ing avatar that I want. I've seen people use their GW2 avatars here, hell even a GW2 logo. Please keep your rabid, foaming at the mouth irrational fan-girl ism in check, I participate in discussions here because I want to see the game improve, not because I want people to leave.
You're a real pro at jumping to conclusions, and spreading misinformation. Let me make a couple things clear:
I have no desire to try to convince people from CO to play TSW, or any other game, for that matter. I do not recommend this game to most people playing CO because the focus is too different. Other than those who have a modern setting as their primary interest, I do not believe these games share a mutual fanbase.
That being said, if I see another game doing something the right way (dev communication has always been something I've pointed out as something Funcom gets right, and CO gets WRONG.) I am going to bring up the comparison, especially since dev communication has been a real sore spot here for a long time.
If you want to get into real details, 6 months, and TSW went buy to play, not freemium, and the game is packed every day. The holiday event was awesome, and it'll be going for a week after this one shuts down.
And I can use any ****ing avatar that I want. I've seen people use their GW2 avatars here, hell even a GW2 logo. Please keep your rabid, foaming at the mouth irrational fan-girl ism in check, I participate in discussions here because I want to see the game improve, not because I want people to leave.
There are also people who had their CoX characters as their Avatar-even back when it was around. I am not sure it is that big of a deal.
And back to CO I think Thundrax has said elsewhere devs in general are all on holiday at the moment.
I dont think any game has leadership right now they are all too drunk.
The difference is, CO hasn't had any leadership for MONTHS and what leadership it had before that was not very significant, and TSW is only lacking it right now because its dev team is on Holiday. If anything, your assertions that TSW is a failed game (which I don't entirely agree with and is a far more complex matter than you make it out to be) only highlight the fundamental point which is that it still has leadership and communication (which are the real topic of this thread and the reason that TSW's director was brought up) despite being such a supposed failure, while CO does not.
Whether TSW is a failed game or you like it personally is irrelevant and does not in any way detract from that point, and if anything only makes it more relevant because both, CO and TSW, are supposedly failed games with lots of issues. But TSW is actively trying to address those issues while keeping an open line of communication with its community and delivering frequent updates, and CO is not.
So its not like we're comparing a hugely successful game to a struggling one with a limited budged and a small company that would never be able to match it. They're both games from small companies that have faced financial straits, but one has an active director and the other one doesn't. That makes it perfectly relevant to this thread's subject.
EA is a co-publisher, and they came in really late on the game's development. It only has its logo on the game. Funcom is the actual developing company. They're to TSW what Atari was to CO.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
EA is a co-publisher, and they came in really late on the game's development. It only has its logo on the game. Funcom is the actual developing company. They're to TSW what Atari was to CO.
It does not even have that much influence. EA does not own Funcom, the *only* thing EA did was physical game copy distribution within the United States, that, and absolutely nothing more.
EDIT: Also, I originally had a longer and perhaps better written post where more points where made or addressed, but I suffered a browser error and lost it all after I was almost done with it, which may have affected how well I wrote and explained the final post since sort of had to rush it and try to work bits of the stuff I lost from memory, etc.
You're a real pro at jumping to conclusions, and spreading misinformation. Let me make a couple things clear:
I'm a massive Secret world fanboi.
[/LIST]
Fixed that for you. And your still here? I'd thought you'd piss off to that not so Secret
World. Please do.
Sorry i'm too lets say tipsy ( epic new year party here ) to really give two fornicating monkeys what you say. I dont think you are relevant enough to even respond to again and no matter what you say you are indeed a TSW fanboi (The AV will tarnish anything you say but like you said its your choice). But please do respond and I will happily not give two ****s.
Signed a CO/STO fangirl
HAPPY NEW YEAR \o/
PS* Yes people do use CoX AV's but thats well an old Cryptic game that no longer competes with CO.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
That little snippet says a lot to me, and really seems indicative of the wagon circlers on these boards who will ignore any point of view contrary to their own.
Damn CO is such an awful game, TSW is much better! And to prove it, I'm still going to play this game and be present on the forums! :rolleyes:
Seriously, can we move on now?
You ever seen a guy break up with a girl, but then he keeps hanging around with her and always starts arguments with her about their relationship and just generally makes a nuisance of himself because he's worried that she's going to end up being happier without him? Sort of the same thing happening here...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Again, coming over from CoH and really am enjoying the CO experience in terms of the community and the customization of costumes and powers. But I AM concerned about the seeming lack of communication from the devs and from what I've been reading, overall backing from Cryptic for the game.
I was hoping I'd hear more about the foundry as I felt (though some disagree) it was a great asset to CoH (mission architect). Its such a great concept that I found the Cryptic exec in the presentation below (url) talk about their great plans for NeverWinter foundry and went through all of the other games that had UGC.
But there is such a pregnant absence of any discussion about CO.. honestly folks, if this game is not going to have the developers backing it, I don't want to throw my time and money at yet another game that the owning company is not supporting wholeheartedly (I did get a good 8+ year run out of CoH but the ending was..abrupt).
Any one hear anything else about UGC via the Foundry? Thought there was an effort to pay for it via some other non-game means..
I guess to me, CO has such great promise which hasn't been realized yet and besides DCUO, is the only one that will allow you to create your own character (from what I understand Marvel MMO will not).
So if they are not going to support the game, then I'll probably end my subscription reluctantly early this year though I hate to see all of my work go to waste on my freeforms.
I was addressing inaccuracies and flaws in two posters' statements from the perspective of someone that actually visits the TSW forums for the benefit of those that don't, while providing a balanced view by validating the accurate points made and admiting that the event blew (or at least, wasn't very good). And the one time I did make fanboish statements a couple of posts back I owned up to it and admited it. I'm not sure how that compares. Perhaps you could address the specific points I made and explain how they make me a fanboi.
EDIT: Also, I originally had a longer and perhaps better written post where more points where made or addressed, but I suffered a browser error and lost it all after I was almost done with it, which may have affected how well I wrote and explained the final post since sort of had to rush it and try to work bits of the stuff I lost from memory, etc.
My opponent is raising taxes to support his flawed and ineffective policys!
I'm raising taxes because the country needs your help to close the gap!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
But I AM concerned about the seeming lack of communication from the devs and from what I've been reading, overall backing from Cryptic for the game.
Active, accessible, and communicative devs do not guarantee a game's continued existence, as proven by CoH. New power set just released, i24 on the verge of going live, then *poof*.
It'll suck for the long time players but a game in maintenance mode is at least a game and was what was asked for during the bargaining phase of the shutdown induced grieving. In a way we got what we asked for, just not in the exact game we wanted.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Active, accessible, and communicative devs do not guarantee a game's continued existence, as proven by CoH. New power set just released, i24 on the verge of going live, then *poof*.
It'll suck for the long time players but a game in maintenance mode is at least a game and was what was asked for during the bargaining phase of the shutdown induced grieving. In a way we got what we asked for, just not in the exact game we wanted.
And see thats the problem with PWE they leave games in maintenance mode for months on end while their studio works on the new shiny and when they do go back with new "updates" its underwhelming stuff
Apart from STO they seem to go overboard with that I am sick of the 1 gig updates >:C
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
True, with CoH we had an active dev community but the parent company was totally not onboard.
So is it a fact that CO is pretty much just in maintenance mode at this point? I think that's really my question in terms of expectations; if they really don't plan on adding new content, enhancements, etc, then I won't really invest much more time, etc.. I'd like to be on something that at least presently, the owning company is backing.
Active, accessible, and communicative devs do not guarantee a game's continued existence, as proven by CoH. New power set just released, i24 on the verge of going live, then *poof*.
It'll suck for the long time players but a game in maintenance mode is at least a game and was what was asked for during the bargaining phase of the shutdown induced grieving. In a way we got what we asked for, just not in the exact game we wanted.
True, with CoH we had an active dev community but the parent company was totally not onboard.
So is it a fact that CO is pretty much just in maintenance mode at this point? I think that's really my question in terms of expectations; if they really don't plan on adding new content, enhancements, etc, then I won't really invest much more time, etc.. I'd like to be on something that at least presently, the owning company is backing.
Its sort of in maintenance mode while Cryptic makes Neverwinter. CO will get passes now and then due to the fact Cryptic made their name with super heroes..CO is more of their hobby rather than a product . If I am wrong dev people please say so but this is what it looks like
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So is it a fact that CO is pretty much just in maintenance mode at this point?
Since they don't even bother about fixing new bugs they brought into the game, i would hardly
even call it "maintenance"-mode, since that for me implies at least some bug-fixing :redface:
Since they don't even bother about fixing new bugs they brought into the game, i would hardly
even call it "maintenance"-mode, since that for me implies at least some bug-fixing :redface:
"Pinned down by enemy fire and awaiting reinforcements" is what I'm going with.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
There is concept art by the concept art guy whose name I can't remember of the planned Jack the Ripper... Zone? Alert? Comic Series?
It has werewolves in it.
So the concept for that... I don't want to call it update, as it won't revolutionise the way the game is playe, more of a feature, is already there, it just needs a lot of effort to get it in code and models and so on to get it in the game, especially as it looks like a lot of unique modelling would need to be done.
So that's a thing we can expect to occur at some point at a point.
Maybe.
One Day.
No idea when.
But Soon, given a specific value of Soon that doesn't quite meet what most people consider soon, but it is soon if soon is an undefined date in the future in which it can occur.
Eventually.
Again, coming over from CoH and really am enjoying the CO experience in terms of the community and the customization of costumes and powers. But I AM concerned about the seeming lack of communication from the devs and from what I've been reading, overall backing from Cryptic for the game.
I was hoping I'd hear more about the foundry as I felt (though some disagree) it was a great asset to CoH (mission architect). Its such a great concept that I found the Cryptic exec in the presentation below (url) talk about their great plans for NeverWinter foundry and went through all of the other games that had UGC.
But there is such a pregnant absence of any discussion about CO.. honestly folks, if this game is not going to have the developers backing it, I don't want to throw my time and money at yet another game that the owning company is not supporting wholeheartedly (I did get a good 8+ year run out of CoH but the ending was..abrupt).
Any one hear anything else about UGC via the Foundry? Thought there was an effort to pay for it via some other non-game means..
I guess to me, CO has such great promise which hasn't been realized yet and besides DCUO, is the only one that will allow you to create your own character (from what I understand Marvel MMO will not).
So if they are not going to support the game, then I'll probably end my subscription reluctantly early this year though I hate to see all of my work go to waste on my freeforms.
I saw this presentation, and he has alot of really good points. One of the things I noticed about his presentation was the idea of monetizing content authors or UGC players, and his answer was a simple no to monetizing UGC authors. And that you would monetize players the same way you would normally, via your costumes cash shop etc etc.
Ultimately what I pulled from the entire presentation was that Neverwinter is going to be the litmus test to see what they should be focusing on.
I still think this game is going to be walking around with "middle child syndrome" until they figure out what they're gonna do with neverwinter.
Don't suppose you could summarize what is being said? I cannot get to this since I don't have a subscription to this site and I'm not going to bother with one for a one-off.
On the other hand, if someone makes a recommendation that there's a lot of stuff there that I'd be interested in as an MMO player, I might be convinced to sign up.
Don't suppose you could summarize what is being said? I cannot get to this since I don't have a subscription to this site and I'm not going to bother with one for a one-off.
On the other hand, if someone makes a recommendation that there's a lot of stuff there that I'd be interested in as an MMO player, I might be convinced to sign up.
You don't need a subscription for his talk he gave, there's a copy on the EU archive.
It's a great talk. Craig's dedication to the quality of his product and his ability to communicate that to his audience is truly energizing, as was his emphasis on the importance for devs to connect with their community. I was especially interested in the part where he talked about how the Foundry reduced dev costs and how quickly it paid for itself. It certainly made it sound like it should be an essential part of the MMO experience, and it's nice to see Cryptic pushing it so strongly.
Unfortunately while NeverWinter was discussed in good detail as they are enhancing the foundry from STO and showcasing it in NWO, CO was not mentioned at all. Its funny, I was doing a search for user generated content on google and this link came up so I got really excited until I actually watched it. Bit of a downer by the total absence of discussion on CO.
It's a great talk. Craig's dedication to the quality of his product and his ability to communicate that to his audience is truly energizing, as was his emphasis on the importance for devs to connect with their community. I was especially interested in the part where he talked about how the Foundry reduced dev costs and how quickly it paid for itself. It certainly made it sound like it should be an essential part of the MMO experience, and it's nice to see Cryptic pushing it so strongly.
Yet time and time again we have been told we wont get it. So it should be apart of the MMO experience, as long as that MMO is not CO.
Yet time and time again we have been told we wont get it. So it should be apart of the MMO experience, as long as that MMO is not CO.
He never said that, I watched the whole speech. What he did say though, even though he didn't put it into these direct words, is that a majority of the resources for cryptic are going into Neverwinter until its released, then based on its success (aka how much $$$ resource return it garners) STO and CO might be facing improvements. Not to mention they might be able to free up some design people to shift back to CO and STO. If neverwinter is the main project of the building, I'd bet its also the largest team and resource pull at the moment.
The only thing is, I just wish they'd finish the damn thing already and shift manpower so I could stop looking at these masochistic **** threads lol.
He never said that, I watched the whole speech. What he did say though, even though he didn't put it into these direct words, is that a majority of the resources for cryptic are going into Neverwinter until its released, then based on its success (aka how much $$$ resource return it garners) STO and CO might be facing improvements. Not to mention they might be able to free up some design people to shift back to CO and STO. If neverwinter is the main project of the building, I'd bet its also the largest team and resource pull at the moment.
The only thing is, I just wish they'd finish the damn thing already and shift manpower so I could stop looking at these masochistic **** threads lol.
He never said that, I watched the whole speech. What he did say though, even though he didn't put it into these direct words, is that a majority of the resources for cryptic are going into Neverwinter until its released, then based on its success (aka how much $$$ resource return it garners) STO and CO might be facing improvements. Not to mention they might be able to free up some design people to shift back to CO and STO. If neverwinter is the main project of the building, I'd bet its also the largest team and resource pull at the moment.
The only thing is, I just wish they'd finish the damn thing already and shift manpower so I could stop looking at these masochistic **** threads lol.
Wasn't that also supposed to happen after the release of STO? And now they have 50 or so staff, and there's about... Three here, apparently?
Oh, and Nepht... Your rabid fangirl side is showing. Jealous that the 'most failurepants MMO' of the year is got to #1 best seller out of thousands of games available on amazon?
Being #1 on Amazon's sales list, does not make it a great game.
SWTOR also made extremely high sales of it's box.
But just like TSW, it went beg to play in under a year, which shows it can't keep people subscribed.
At this time, TSW *still* has an in game manditory event, which involves mayan spawns constantly harrasing players, on all levels.
Both in the forums, and in the game, numerous folks have stated they will not continue to play TSW.
Box sales mean little, when no one stays to financially support your product.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Being #1 on Amazon's sales list, does not make it a great game.
SWTOR also made extremely high sales of it's box.
But just like TSW, it went beg to play in under a year, which shows it can't keep people subscribed.
At this time, TSW *still* has an in game manditory event, which involves mayan spawns constantly harrasing players, on all levels.
Both in the forums, and in the game, numerous folks have stated they will not continue to play TSW.
Box sales mean little, when no one stays to financially support your product.
Eh. Whether or not a game is great is pretty subjective. It may, or may not, be a great one but, it was one that a lot of people were willing to shell out money to try.
Had to snerk at the comment beg to play though. If they're begging then what are the people at Cryptic doing with their games? Most of the people I meet are either LTSers that bought in at the very beginning or F2Pers. That would kind of suggest their games can't keep people subscribed either and with this one in particular, it almost feels like they're holding one hand out expecting money while giving players the finger with the other. :rolleyes:
With regards to why those games went F2P or B2P, I think there's a lot of different reasons that contributed to the decision.
TOR had a VERY high production cost and also has a pretty hefty licensing fee just to be able to run the game. They were most likely banking on the IP to draw in tons of people, which it did do, and probably didn't consider that, with all the options out there for people now and how gamers tend to flit from one game to another as they're released, a lot of those people weren't likely to stick around and keep paying for subs. They had to keep drawing people in somehow or those people wouldn't be spending any money on TOR so, F2P. I'd probably be playing it off and on if it weren't for the fact that they've monetized damn near everything they can including such basic player tools like hotbars. I don't mind throwing cash at a game but, being forced to pay for things like unlocking the entire UI annoys me enough that I haven't bothered with it.
It's my understanding that TSW was much closer to the other end of the spectrum in terms of production costs which says they managed to acquire some very talented devs for very cheap to me and I'm sure using an engine they already owned helped with costs as well. All it takes it about 2-3 minutes to see that it's made by people that want to ensure that they're delivering a quality product and despite what people may say about it, the game is innovative. The problems TSW has had is mostly due to outside factors like people still remembering how much garbage Age of was at release and the fact that it's not using an already popular IP to draw people in and that its release wasn't too far away from both TOR, a game based on an IP known around the world that's had fans for over 30 years, and GW2, a game that a lot of people have been eagerly waiting for for years now. People may not like the gameplay of it but, that's a subjective matter. TSW manages to fill a niche that doesn't really have any competitors and its business plan virtually ensures that it's going to be a constantly growing and expanding game.
Also kinda curious where where you've been hearing people being vocal about quitting TSW. Maybe I've been looking at the wrong places in its forums but, I've yet to come across and I quit threads over there and haven't heard anyone say anything about quitting in chat.
Edit: And the mayans are only a problem for people that spam their AoEs which isn't too bright an idea in most games unless you're teamed with other people. I've been running around on a ST focused build and have suffered no problems with them at all.
There is concept art by the concept art guy whose name I can't remember of the planned Jack the Ripper... Zone? Alert? Comic Series?
It has werewolves in it.
Where is that concept art? Link please!
The UNTIL Field Report said something about Vladic Dracul and time travel to Victorian London for (hopefully next) Halloween.
And that better not be just a temporary event like Nighthawk's or an alert! I heard our devs saying often enough that city zones are a pain to make, so the last thing I want them creating is a whole new urban map for nothing more than a two minutes battle; so much work for next to no content!
Being #1 on Amazon's sales list, does not make it a great game.
SWTOR also made extremely high sales of it's box.
But just like TSW, it went beg to play in under a year, which shows it can't keep people subscribed.
At this time, TSW *still* has an in game manditory event, which involves mayan spawns constantly harrasing players, on all levels.
Both in the forums, and in the game, numerous folks have stated they will not continue to play TSW.
Box sales mean little, when no one stays to financially support your product.
1) Whether or not you think its a great name is besides the point. Its been #1 on Amazon (and several other sites) sales list, therefore the game is not as unsuccessful as Nepht makes it out to be.
2) Name me one currently P2P game that isn't Rift or WoW that has been that way for more than a year. Take all the pot shots you want, fact of the matter is that the entire indistury is changing and the subcription model is becoming a thing of the past. Calling a game that's dropping its sub a "failure" wont change that. TSW made a mistake going P2P to begin with, and even more when the most awaited and successful game this year was launching about a month after them as B2P from the start and the most successful P2P MMO was launching an expansion as well.
3) Your assesment of the suckocity of the Mayan event is greatly exagerated and the idea that an entire game's population (of ANY game that would have an event that supposedly "sucks", not just this one) will quit over ONE event is ridiculous.
Where have I been hearing of people being frustrated over this event and even those quitting...
Well first off there is the in game chat. Can't show you examples, since I didn't screen cap the chat box. I log into London for 3 minutes ( to turn in my 5 kin a day for xp at the blue tent since I already farmed the remains to do so) and in that time I *still* hear people speak of how they can't level, since the mayans kill them during their mission.
However there are posts on the forum. I have examples to show you. Oh and alot, but not all, are in the Feedback forum for this event. So, I didn't even have to go looking far to find them.
He never said that, I watched the whole speech. What he did say though, even though he didn't put it into these direct words, is that a majority of the resources for cryptic are going into Neverwinter until its released, then based on its success (aka how much $$$ resource return it garners) STO and CO might be facing improvements. Not to mention they might be able to free up some design people to shift back to CO and STO. If neverwinter is the main project of the building, I'd bet its also the largest team and resource pull at the moment.
The only thing is, I just wish they'd finish the damn thing already and shift manpower so I could stop looking at these masochistic **** threads lol.
He may have not said that in THAT very video, but go back to any of the Ask Cryptics, anythime the Foundry was ever brought up, it was "we can't do that." Until they say "We can do that" then the origional Answer stands, They can't do it. So they will not do it.
Well first off there is the in game chat. Can't show you examples, since I didn't screen cap the chat box. I log into London for 3 minutes ( to turn in my 5 kin a day for xp at the blue tent since I already farmed the remains to do so) and in that time I *still* hear people speak of how they can't level, since the mayans kill them during their mission.
I haven't seen anyone complain about this issue any time I've been logged recently, and I've been to London a couple of times to visit the bank and such. This is not to say no one has complained--I'm sure some have. But my point is that you're overstating something we have no way of verifying on the wrong forum (this is the CO forum, not TSW's) where people don't come to discuss issues about TSW. And...
Your favorite posts to support your position is actually inaccurate. The poster claims they were randomly attacked by event mobs while in a "safe" zone. Fact: Event mobs don't attack or become hostile to you unless you attack them first. The only way to "randomly" be attacked by one is if they spawn while you were spaming AoE's in the area. If the poster was idle at the police station this couldn't have happened. The only way he would have been attacked by event mobs is if he/she attack them first.
Yeah, nothing but cheerleaders for this game (TSW).
Correcting inaccuracies and misinformation =/= cheerleading. You're just hating on TSW on the wrong forum.
Comments
No DEV has posted anything about it.
A forum volunteer mod, who stated she gave her *opinion* about the matter, does not make for an Official response from a dev.
Going Buy to Play to bring in new people, (since they desperately need the money), then setting up an event worldwide, that effects all the new people, too. (and not in a good way) Therefore driving off lots of new people, then going on holiday and saying.. "Oppsie, wish I would have thought that through better.. oh well.. we are on holiday till the 3rd." That's bad leadership. You can put on rose colored glasses all you want. But that doesn't change how much damage this did to all the "new revenue" they were looking to generate.
As for the, they went on holiday, do you expect them to come back for this?... well yes.
Considering they had this on test center and pointed out these flaws, (while they were still here and not on holiday) and pushed it through anyways.
Also, if your company is in dire straights and needs money so bad you have to change it's sub form to No sub needed, please we beg you play our game.. then yeah.. you stay home and FIX it. Not make it worse and then leave town.
Oh well, another MMO that will be closed in no time.
More digital dust.
Both sides of the discussion would better served to restrict their discussion to CO, but people just cannot seem to avoid both comparison and analogy. Comparing a game to other games is always going to fail. Even the most popular MMO (based on both sub and concurrent user numbers) is thought to be a pile of steaming dung by some people. Comparison and analogy rarely do anything but derail threads.
So, sticking to CO, the Dev Tracker shows plenty of TT posts in the last month and a half, 3 or 4 one-liners by Splosions, 2-3 clarification posts by GCrush, and the odd post by Lordgar and/or Drannic related to maintenance and what-not. Nothing from Stokan, who would be the Leadership the post was about. So, we have communication, but not from the EProd and not talking about new stuff, which is the hot topic right now.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Wow thats some good advice you just gave yourself. No matter how badly you try to rubbish CO it wont change the fact TSW is the biggest MMO failurepants this year.
So glad you have seen sense.
Remember your the one that brought up TSW with your posts and your AV.
What exactly did you think would happen? Did you honestly think we would drop everything and suddenly start playing it? Theres a reason it went freemium in 8 weeks or something (thats gotta be a record).
For the record I have nothing against FUNCOM I do enjoy Age of Conan but TSW is no where near as good as that game.
I am not 100% sure your allowed to have an AV featuring TSW on a PWE forum as its MEANT to be a competitor to PWE's games.
And back to CO I think Thundrax has said elsewhere devs in general are all on holiday at the moment.
I dont think any game has leadership right now they are all too drunk.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It doesn't hurt that most of the players are that way too.
You're a real pro at jumping to conclusions, and spreading misinformation. Let me make a couple things clear:
There are also people who had their CoX characters as their Avatar-even back when it was around. I am not sure it is that big of a deal.
The difference is, CO hasn't had any leadership for MONTHS and what leadership it had before that was not very significant, and TSW is only lacking it right now because its dev team is on Holiday. If anything, your assertions that TSW is a failed game (which I don't entirely agree with and is a far more complex matter than you make it out to be) only highlight the fundamental point which is that it still has leadership and communication (which are the real topic of this thread and the reason that TSW's director was brought up) despite being such a supposed failure, while CO does not.
Whether TSW is a failed game or you like it personally is irrelevant and does not in any way detract from that point, and if anything only makes it more relevant because both, CO and TSW, are supposedly failed games with lots of issues. But TSW is actively trying to address those issues while keeping an open line of communication with its community and delivering frequent updates, and CO is not.
So its not like we're comparing a hugely successful game to a struggling one with a limited budged and a small company that would never be able to match it. They're both games from small companies that have faced financial straits, but one has an active director and the other one doesn't. That makes it perfectly relevant to this thread's subject.
Telepathy Now
EA is a small company?
EA is a co-publisher, and they came in really late on the game's development. It only has its logo on the game. Funcom is the actual developing company. They're to TSW what Atari was to CO.
It's a Secret.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It does not even have that much influence. EA does not own Funcom, the *only* thing EA did was physical game copy distribution within the United States, that, and absolutely nothing more.
What are you all even arguing about? Exactly what ****ty MMO it would be fair to compare CO to?
"no no that's not ****ty enough, and thinking that CO is anything less than *Insert MMO* levels of **** makes you a fanboy!"
lawlz.
Unrelated:
Yeah, I hate that ****....
Fixed that for you. And your still here? I'd thought you'd piss off to that not so Secret
World. Please do.
Sorry i'm too lets say tipsy ( epic new year party here ) to really give two fornicating monkeys what you say. I dont think you are relevant enough to even respond to again and no matter what you say you are indeed a TSW fanboi (The AV will tarnish anything you say but like you said its your choice). But please do respond and I will happily not give two ****s.
Signed a CO/STO fangirl
HAPPY NEW YEAR \o/
PS* Yes people do use CoX AV's but thats well an old Cryptic game that no longer competes with CO.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
That little snippet says a lot to me, and really seems indicative of the wagon circlers on these boards who will ignore any point of view contrary to their own.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Damn CO is such an awful game, TSW is much better! And to prove it, I'm still going to play this game and be present on the forums! :rolleyes:
Seriously, can we move on now?
You ever seen a guy break up with a girl, but then he keeps hanging around with her and always starts arguments with her about their relationship and just generally makes a nuisance of himself because he's worried that she's going to end up being happier without him? Sort of the same thing happening here...
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I was hoping I'd hear more about the foundry as I felt (though some disagree) it was a great asset to CoH (mission architect). Its such a great concept that I found the Cryptic exec in the presentation below (url) talk about their great plans for NeverWinter foundry and went through all of the other games that had UGC.
But there is such a pregnant absence of any discussion about CO.. honestly folks, if this game is not going to have the developers backing it, I don't want to throw my time and money at yet another game that the owning company is not supporting wholeheartedly (I did get a good 8+ year run out of CoH but the ending was..abrupt).
Any one hear anything else about UGC via the Foundry? Thought there was an effort to pay for it via some other non-game means..
I guess to me, CO has such great promise which hasn't been realized yet and besides DCUO, is the only one that will allow you to create your own character (from what I understand Marvel MMO will not).
So if they are not going to support the game, then I'll probably end my subscription reluctantly early this year though I hate to see all of my work go to waste on my freeforms.
So... any word on this? Been listening to this presentation but no mention of CO
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016471...ontent-In-MMOs
My opponent is raising taxes to support his flawed and ineffective policys!
I'm raising taxes because the country needs your help to close the gap!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Active, accessible, and communicative devs do not guarantee a game's continued existence, as proven by CoH. New power set just released, i24 on the verge of going live, then *poof*.
It'll suck for the long time players but a game in maintenance mode is at least a game and was what was asked for during the bargaining phase of the shutdown induced grieving. In a way we got what we asked for, just not in the exact game we wanted.
And see thats the problem with PWE they leave games in maintenance mode for months on end while their studio works on the new shiny and when they do go back with new "updates" its underwhelming stuff
Apart from STO they seem to go overboard with that I am sick of the 1 gig updates >:C
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So is it a fact that CO is pretty much just in maintenance mode at this point? I think that's really my question in terms of expectations; if they really don't plan on adding new content, enhancements, etc, then I won't really invest much more time, etc.. I'd like to be on something that at least presently, the owning company is backing.
Its sort of in maintenance mode while Cryptic makes Neverwinter. CO will get passes now and then due to the fact Cryptic made their name with super heroes..CO is more of their hobby rather than a product . If I am wrong dev people please say so but this is what it looks like
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Since they don't even bother about fixing new bugs they brought into the game, i would hardly
even call it "maintenance"-mode, since that for me implies at least some bug-fixing :redface:
"Pinned down by enemy fire and awaiting reinforcements" is what I'm going with.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
It has werewolves in it.
So the concept for that... I don't want to call it update, as it won't revolutionise the way the game is playe, more of a feature, is already there, it just needs a lot of effort to get it in code and models and so on to get it in the game, especially as it looks like a lot of unique modelling would need to be done.
So that's a thing we can expect to occur at some point at a point.
Maybe.
One Day.
No idea when.
But Soon, given a specific value of Soon that doesn't quite meet what most people consider soon, but it is soon if soon is an undefined date in the future in which it can occur.
Eventually.
I saw this presentation, and he has alot of really good points. One of the things I noticed about his presentation was the idea of monetizing content authors or UGC players, and his answer was a simple no to monetizing UGC authors. And that you would monetize players the same way you would normally, via your costumes cash shop etc etc.
Ultimately what I pulled from the entire presentation was that Neverwinter is going to be the litmus test to see what they should be focusing on.
I still think this game is going to be walking around with "middle child syndrome" until they figure out what they're gonna do with neverwinter.
Don't suppose you could summarize what is being said? I cannot get to this since I don't have a subscription to this site and I'm not going to bother with one for a one-off.
On the other hand, if someone makes a recommendation that there's a lot of stuff there that I'd be interested in as an MMO player, I might be convinced to sign up.
You don't need a subscription for his talk he gave, there's a copy on the EU archive.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016471/User-Generated-Content-In-MMOs
Ah thanks. Much appreciated.
Where is the former in relation to the latter in such a title?
The foundry ...
It's a great talk. Craig's dedication to the quality of his product and his ability to communicate that to his audience is truly energizing, as was his emphasis on the importance for devs to connect with their community. I was especially interested in the part where he talked about how the Foundry reduced dev costs and how quickly it paid for itself. It certainly made it sound like it should be an essential part of the MMO experience, and it's nice to see Cryptic pushing it so strongly.
Yet time and time again we have been told we wont get it. So it should be apart of the MMO experience, as long as that MMO is not CO.
He never said that, I watched the whole speech. What he did say though, even though he didn't put it into these direct words, is that a majority of the resources for cryptic are going into Neverwinter until its released, then based on its success (aka how much $$$ resource return it garners) STO and CO might be facing improvements. Not to mention they might be able to free up some design people to shift back to CO and STO. If neverwinter is the main project of the building, I'd bet its also the largest team and resource pull at the moment.
The only thing is, I just wish they'd finish the damn thing already and shift manpower so I could stop looking at these masochistic **** threads lol.
Wasn't that also supposed to happen after the release of STO? And now they have 50 or so staff, and there's about... Three here, apparently?
Oh, and Nepht... Your rabid fangirl side is showing. Jealous that the 'most failurepants MMO' of the year is got to #1 best seller out of thousands of games available on amazon?
SWTOR also made extremely high sales of it's box.
But just like TSW, it went beg to play in under a year, which shows it can't keep people subscribed.
At this time, TSW *still* has an in game manditory event, which involves mayan spawns constantly harrasing players, on all levels.
Both in the forums, and in the game, numerous folks have stated they will not continue to play TSW.
Box sales mean little, when no one stays to financially support your product.
I mean no offense to Brad, but there's a LONG leap between being a character artist and Executive Producer. I had high hopes. He failed miserably.
The fact that he was promoted tells me how much investment PWE was going to put into Champions-Online. I just didn't listen to that voice inside.
Next we'll be hearing that Consuela is our new Executive Producer.
Pardon me while I chuckle politely...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Eh. Whether or not a game is great is pretty subjective. It may, or may not, be a great one but, it was one that a lot of people were willing to shell out money to try.
Had to snerk at the comment beg to play though. If they're begging then what are the people at Cryptic doing with their games? Most of the people I meet are either LTSers that bought in at the very beginning or F2Pers. That would kind of suggest their games can't keep people subscribed either and with this one in particular, it almost feels like they're holding one hand out expecting money while giving players the finger with the other. :rolleyes:
With regards to why those games went F2P or B2P, I think there's a lot of different reasons that contributed to the decision.
TOR had a VERY high production cost and also has a pretty hefty licensing fee just to be able to run the game. They were most likely banking on the IP to draw in tons of people, which it did do, and probably didn't consider that, with all the options out there for people now and how gamers tend to flit from one game to another as they're released, a lot of those people weren't likely to stick around and keep paying for subs. They had to keep drawing people in somehow or those people wouldn't be spending any money on TOR so, F2P. I'd probably be playing it off and on if it weren't for the fact that they've monetized damn near everything they can including such basic player tools like hotbars. I don't mind throwing cash at a game but, being forced to pay for things like unlocking the entire UI annoys me enough that I haven't bothered with it.
It's my understanding that TSW was much closer to the other end of the spectrum in terms of production costs which says they managed to acquire some very talented devs for very cheap to me and I'm sure using an engine they already owned helped with costs as well. All it takes it about 2-3 minutes to see that it's made by people that want to ensure that they're delivering a quality product and despite what people may say about it, the game is innovative. The problems TSW has had is mostly due to outside factors like people still remembering how much garbage Age of was at release and the fact that it's not using an already popular IP to draw people in and that its release wasn't too far away from both TOR, a game based on an IP known around the world that's had fans for over 30 years, and GW2, a game that a lot of people have been eagerly waiting for for years now. People may not like the gameplay of it but, that's a subjective matter. TSW manages to fill a niche that doesn't really have any competitors and its business plan virtually ensures that it's going to be a constantly growing and expanding game.
Also kinda curious where where you've been hearing people being vocal about quitting TSW. Maybe I've been looking at the wrong places in its forums but, I've yet to come across and I quit threads over there and haven't heard anyone say anything about quitting in chat.
Edit: And the mayans are only a problem for people that spam their AoEs which isn't too bright an idea in most games unless you're teamed with other people. I've been running around on a ST focused build and have suffered no problems with them at all.
Where is that concept art? Link please!
The UNTIL Field Report said something about Vladic Dracul and time travel to Victorian London for (hopefully next) Halloween.
And that better not be just a temporary event like Nighthawk's or an alert! I heard our devs saying often enough that city zones are a pain to make, so the last thing I want them creating is a whole new urban map for nothing more than a two minutes battle; so much work for next to no content!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
1) Whether or not you think its a great name is besides the point. Its been #1 on Amazon (and several other sites) sales list, therefore the game is not as unsuccessful as Nepht makes it out to be.
2) Name me one currently P2P game that isn't Rift or WoW that has been that way for more than a year. Take all the pot shots you want, fact of the matter is that the entire indistury is changing and the subcription model is becoming a thing of the past. Calling a game that's dropping its sub a "failure" wont change that. TSW made a mistake going P2P to begin with, and even more when the most awaited and successful game this year was launching about a month after them as B2P from the start and the most successful P2P MMO was launching an expansion as well.
3) Your assesment of the suckocity of the Mayan event is greatly exagerated and the idea that an entire game's population (of ANY game that would have an event that supposedly "sucks", not just this one) will quit over ONE event is ridiculous.
Well first off there is the in game chat. Can't show you examples, since I didn't screen cap the chat box. I log into London for 3 minutes ( to turn in my 5 kin a day for xp at the blue tent since I already farmed the remains to do so) and in that time I *still* hear people speak of how they can't level, since the mayans kill them during their mission.
However there are posts on the forum. I have examples to show you. Oh and alot, but not all, are in the Feedback forum for this event. So, I didn't even have to go looking far to find them.
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1508861&postcount=23
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1501448&postcount=21
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1501562&postcount=55
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1501962&postcount=69
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1503300&postcount=127
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1503412&postcount=132
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1504303&postcount=184
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1504683&postcount=198
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1504810&postcount=201
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1504901&postcount=203
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1506339&postcount=274
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1507471&postcount=293
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1508143&postcount=324
My Favorite of all
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showpost.php?p=1507740&postcount=299
Yeah, nothing but cheerleaders for this game (TSW).
I like how you summed it up.
(paraphrasing)
Taking their money with one hand, and giving them the finger with the other.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
He may have not said that in THAT very video, but go back to any of the Ask Cryptics, anythime the Foundry was ever brought up, it was "we can't do that." Until they say "We can do that" then the origional Answer stands, They can't do it. So they will not do it.
I haven't seen anyone complain about this issue any time I've been logged recently, and I've been to London a couple of times to visit the bank and such. This is not to say no one has complained--I'm sure some have. But my point is that you're overstating something we have no way of verifying on the wrong forum (this is the CO forum, not TSW's) where people don't come to discuss issues about TSW. And...
Your favorite posts to support your position is actually inaccurate. The poster claims they were randomly attacked by event mobs while in a "safe" zone. Fact: Event mobs don't attack or become hostile to you unless you attack them first. The only way to "randomly" be attacked by one is if they spawn while you were spaming AoE's in the area. If the poster was idle at the police station this couldn't have happened. The only way he would have been attacked by event mobs is if he/she attack them first.
Correcting inaccuracies and misinformation =/= cheerleading. You're just hating on TSW on the wrong forum.