TSW is not action oriented per se (though, the combat is far more challenging than CO), but a more cerebral game that emphasizes investigation and puzzle solving, with combat in between. Some missions (called Sabotage missions) even focus on avoiding confrontations altogether and attepting to achieve your objectives through stealth and evasive strategy.
Other missions focus on combat (particularly as you advance further in the game), but combat in TSW is about facing off against supernatural horrors and struggling to stay alive rather than just roflstomping through them. So the battles take longer and you have to work harder to stay alive than in most other MMOs.
The action and XP gain also picks up as you progress to the more advanced areas, and becomes significantly more challenging around the third zone (Blue Mountain) you hit in the earlier sections of the game.
To be honest the combat doesn't really do anything for me at all. Pick a couple weapons, build up combo points, unload, repeat. Granted I'm not really understanding what a lot of it really means "Exploits hindered state"... what does that mean? Can I apply hindered state to exploit it? Can I not apply it because I chose the wrong weapons to start with? Why did I bother picking up an assault rifle if no matter what group of zombies I attack, they're in my face and I'm shooting them point blank after a couple seconds. My character is constantly getting eaten by zombies while he just stands there with the odd dodge here and there... it just looks stupid. Combat was more fun in GW2 for me.
I get that it's more of a survival game, but if that's the case, the mood is shattered by me allowing five zombies to make a smorgasbord out of my face while I build up combo points to unleash a slightly better attack.
Blah, I gave the game a fair shake, and I honestly can't think of anything that would keep me playing. This game's gonna beat Age of Conan in my least-played-after-buying MMO list. I keep playing it trying to like it, but it just feels boring all around.
Funny note though, the investigation missions, while somewhat intriguing, are kinda funny. When the game first introduces them to you, it says "You might have to look outside the game to figure out the puzzles." Okay, neato. First thing I do is bring up the web browser and type some stuff relevant to the investigation mission. First thing that comes up: Mission walkthroughs! I wish real-world detectives wish they had it so good!
Also they could explain things a bit better. In the Something Wicked mission, I'd figured out the last part, but had no idea the birds were clickable. There's no indication of it.
Anyway, yeah. It's a neat game, I understand why some would like it, but probably anyone looking for a comic book experience is gonna be bored out of their gourd.
Pick a couple powers, build up points, unload, repeat.
I swear that sounds familiar........
Unless I'm mistaken, Champs doesn't have a combo point system that only allows you to use certain powers after you've hit a certain bad gun X amount of times.
If you mean familiar as in Guild Wars 2 or WoW, by all means...
Anyway, yeah. It's a neat game, I understand why some would like it, but probably anyone looking for a comic book experience is gonna be bored out of their gourd.
The thing is Smacks, as much as I like you and this game, your description of SW would fit CO's current state perfectly too. I find it unbelievable that they don't realize that if meaningful content is launched soon, there will be no one left to be tempted to buy the **** that clutters up the Z store. The lair review is well overdue and we need a new zone soon, before its too late. If I didn't have a LTS, I too would have quit, as I refuse to pay them anymore money until the game content deserves it. If they offered a new expansion, I would gratefully pay for it, but not for ****ty grab bags and lock boxes.
The thing is Smacks, as much as I like you and this game, your description of SW would fit CO's current state perfectly too. I find it unbelievable that they don't realize that if meaningful content is launched soon, there will be no one left to be tempted to buy the **** that clutters up the Z store. The lair review is well overdue and we need a new zone soon, before its too late. If I didn't have a LTS, I too would have quit, as I refuse to pay them anymore money until the game content deserves it. If they offered a new expansion, I would gratefully pay for it, but not for ****ty grab bags and lock boxes.
Well, to you, maybe. I still enjoy the combat in this game. Stale content or no, I've never played another MMO that I actually enjoyed the combat as much as in Champs. Secret World, it could have years and years of content, but the basic mechanics of the game bore me so hard that I'll never get to know how much content it really has. I'm not going to sit through boring gameplay just to watch cutscene after cutscene of story after story to get to more content that I'm not gonna enjoy.
To be honest the combat doesn't really do anything for me at all. Pick a couple weapons, build up combo points, unload, repeat. Granted I'm not really understanding what a lot of it really means "Exploits hindered state"... what does that mean? Can I apply hindered state to exploit it? Can I not apply it because I chose the wrong weapons to start with? Why did I bother picking up an assault rifle if no matter what group of zombies I attack, they're in my face and I'm shooting them point blank after a couple seconds. My character is constantly getting eaten by zombies while he just stands there with the odd dodge here and there... it just looks stupid. Combat was more fun in GW2 for me.
I get that it's more of a survival game, but if that's the case, the mood is shattered by me allowing five zombies to make a smorgasbord out of my face while I build up combo points to unleash a slightly better attack.
Blah, I gave the game a fair shake, and I honestly can't think of anything that would keep me playing. This game's gonna beat Age of Conan in my least-played-after-buying MMO list. I keep playing it trying to like it, but it just feels boring all around.
Funny note though, the investigation missions, while somewhat intriguing, are kinda funny. When the game first introduces them to you, it says "You might have to look outside the game to figure out the puzzles." Okay, neato. First thing I do is bring up the web browser and type some stuff relevant to the investigation mission. First thing that comes up: Mission walkthroughs! I wish real-world detectives wish they had it so good!
Also they could explain things a bit better. In the Something Wicked mission, I'd figured out the last part, but had no idea the birds were clickable. There's no indication of it.
Anyway, yeah. It's a neat game, I understand why some would like it, but probably anyone looking for a comic book experience is gonna be bored out of their gourd.
I gotta grant you a couple of points on what you said about combat. I wasn't exactly enamored with it at first and has become kind of an acquired taste. For me the things that did it about the game where the story and atmosphere, and the different focus in some of the missions involving investigation, with a story focus and stuff. CO's and GW2's combat are a bit more actiony and TSW's takes a bit of getting used to. Then again, so did CO's for me, but once I understood how things like charged and maintained attacks worked it became pretty intuitive fast, TSW is a bit clunkier and you still have to work for it even after you understand what you have to do. But it eventually comes to you if you give it a chance.
Stuff like "Exposed" and "Hindered" are different status effects that can be applied to enemies by certain attacks. Exposed are a type of Weakened state debuff, and Hindered include things like roots and snares. This site includes some guides that explain in detail about different weapon choices, and such if you want to give it a try. Understanding how different weapons and effects work takes some time, but its important to understand how to setup an effective build in the game and which weapon combinations to select.
Assault Rifles are good "leach" healing weapons (can attack and heal at the same time). You'll need to learn some attacks with "Hindered" to keep some enemies off you, but they'll always try to jump on you same as in other MMOs. Though, in TSW it becomes more apparent because they tried to setup an atmosphere that seems more realistic, which sometimes clashes with classic MMO mechanics like hit points and enemies keeping going at you even as you are (supposedly) blowing chuncks of them away.
Well, to you, maybe. I still enjoy the combat in this game. Stale content or no, I've never played another MMO that I actually enjoyed the combat as much as in Champs. Secret World, it could have years and years of content, but the basic mechanics of the game bore me so hard that I'll never get to know how much content it really has. I'm not going to sit through boring gameplay just to watch cutscene after cutscene of story after story to get to more content that I'm not gonna enjoy.
I can't comment on SW as I haven't tried it...yet. I agree that CO's combat is enormous fun, but not challenging enough and the lack of content is inexcusable. The 'Rumble in the Jumble' was an awesome fight, but I wouldn't want to watch it a million times. Playing CO is rapidly become very repetitive and the only reason I am playing is because i keep hoping the game I love gets some attention from the developers and altitis. However, if this carries on, I will take an extended sabbatical until things improve.
I gotta grant you a couple of points on what you said about combat. I wasn't exactly enamored with it at first and has become kind of an acquired taste. For me the things that did it about the game where the story and atmosphere, and the different focus in some of the missions involving investigation, with a story focus and stuff. CO's and GW2's combat are a bit more actiony and TSW's takes a bit of getting used to. Then again, so did CO's for me, but once I understood how things like charged and maintained attacks worked it became pretty intuitive fast, TSW is a bit clunkier and you still have to work for it even after you understand what you have to do. But it eventually comes to you if you give it a chance.
Stuff like "Exposed" and "Hindered" are different status effects that can be applied to enemies by certain attacks. Exposed are a type of Weakened state debuff, and Hindered include things like roots and snares. This site includes some guides that explain in detail about different weapon choices, and such if you want to give it a try. Understanding how different weapons and effects work takes some time, but its important to understand how to setup an effective build in the game and which weapon combinations to select.
Assault Rifles are good "leach" healing weapons (can attack and heal at the same time). You'll need to learn some attacks with "Hindered" to keep some enemies off you, but they'll always try to jump on you same as in other MMOs. Though, in TSW it becomes more apparent because they tried to setup an atmosphere that seems more realistic, which sometimes clashes with classic MMO mechanics like hit points and enemies keeping going at you even as you are (supposedly) blowing chuncks of them away.
When I started playing Secret World, it all seemed so alien to me. So I sat back and told myself "remember when you first played WoW and Champs, you were new there and didn't know anything. It'll be the same here." The other games came easier to me. It's not a bad thing, but, I say that to say this - giving the players a big, complex system with no chance of respeccing a character is just cruel. I took pistols and assault rifles because I didn't wanna be Merlin or Wolverine sucks (sorry, Wolverine, it's hard not to say sucks afterward), then I find out it was probably a bad choice. Now I have the choice of either playing my gimpy character for a dozen missions to learn some other weapon I might not enjoy using just to try to get something that applies a hindered state... why can't I just respec? It's another turnoff. For having such an uncompromising system, it really should lead you by the nose in earlier levels.
I can't comment on SW as I haven't tried it...yet. I agree that CO's combat is enormous fun, but not challenging enough and the lack of content is inexcusable. The 'Rumble in the Jumble' was an awesome fight, but I wouldn't want to watch it a million times. Playing CO is rapidly become very repetitive and the only reason I am playing is because i keep hoping the game I love gets some attention from the developers and altitis. However, if this carries on, I will take an extended sabbatical until things improve.
As far as challenge, I've never really had a problem with the game. I don't think I've ever build a character while thinking "What's the best possible combination of powers and superstats to make this guy a total badass?" I play what I think is fun (that turns out largely being Might :P), and don't worry about if I'll be able to take out cosmics or if I'll be able to run a lair that's 10 levels above me solo in under 15 minutes and not losing a fifth of my health bar. There's plenty of challenge in it for me, because I've never tried to be a power player (I'm not saying "nerf yourself to make the game fun," just saying that's never been an issue for me).
Well, to you, maybe. I still enjoy the combat in this game. Stale content or no, I've never played another MMO that I actually enjoyed the combat as much as in Champs. Secret World, it could have years and years of content, but the basic mechanics of the game bore me so hard that I'll never get to know how much content it really has. I'm not going to sit through boring gameplay just to watch cutscene after cutscene of story after story to get to more content that I'm not gonna enjoy.
This pretty much sums up why I'm still here. The combat mechanics in champions are fun. The first thing that got me to go YAY about this game was the first time I Roomsweepered a bunch of guys and sent them flying on my first toon, a behemoth AT... 11 levels in and I was hooked already. And after all this time, I'm still having a giggling good time roomsweepering folks on my FF behemoth. Also that costume editor, and the fact that the games looks rad. The game has a good solid foundation, which is the reason it will probably never die despite all the cries of doom.
Thanks for the mini-review of SW... I'm gonna go ahead and cross that off the list because what you described sounds just awful.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
This pretty much sums up why I'm still here. The combat mechanics in champions are fun. The first thing that got me to go YAY about this game was the first time I Roomsweepered a bunch of guys and sent them flying on my first toon, a behemoth AT... 11 levels in and I was hooked already. And after all this time, I'm still having a giggling good time roomsweepering folks on my FF behemoth. Also that costume editor, and the fact that the games looks rad. The game has a good solid foundation, which is the reason it will probably never die despite all the cries of doom.
That's Haymaker for me. :P
Thanks for the mini-review of SW... I'm gonna go ahead and cross that off the list because what you described sounds just awful.
I wouldn't write it off completely. I didn't post to dissuade people from trying it. It's really well made and a lot of thought put into the story (more could be put into the combat systems, but I'm too new to really make that kind of statement).
It's butt-cheap, too. But yeah if you're a fan of action, it might not tickle your fancy. Also don't look at the price of trench coats! :biggrin:
Unless I'm mistaken, Champs doesn't have a combo point system that only allows you to use certain powers after you've hit a certain bad gun X amount of times.
If you mean familiar as in Guild Wars 2 or WoW, by all means...
Combo points, mana, endurance, energy, you can all it whatever you want, it's still "hit bad guy with x attack till you can use y then use y"
I wouldn't write it off completely. I didn't post to dissuade people from trying it. It's really well made and a lot of thought put into the story (more could be put into the combat systems, but I'm too new to really make that kind of statement).
It's butt-cheap, too. But yeah if you're a fan of action, it might not tickle your fancy. Also don't look at the price of trench coats! :biggrin:
*takes a symbolic nail and hammers it into a symbolic coffin... then buries that symbolic coffin in a symbolic hole, and covers it with actual american concrete*
Combo points, mana, endurance, energy, you can all it whatever you want, it's still "hit bad guy with x attack till you can use y then use y"
Or call it "lunge in and start beating the snot out of your opponent... then wait a half second while you get some energy, then resume beating snots"... or say "Activate Dark Transfusion and start laying waste to everything in sight with giant blasts of super powers... then activate dark transfusion and repeat" OR EVEN "run into a crowd of dudes, block while they all peck at you like mosquitoes, then unleass all hell on them and stomp them into mud".
It's been quite a while since I've had the "Use energy builder until you can use a power" expirience.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I tried to leave CO once. Love don't work like that.
I'm sitting here right now starving, well empty of content, and just
really want to talk about this game.
There is a lesson in my cramped angry fasting. We all must do our part to add content to the world we live in.
On that note, I'm going to go get quesadilla and a chicken burrito.
With that in mind, when I come back I want to see sombrero and poncho set in the Zstore.
Combo points, mana, endurance, energy, you can all it whatever you want, it's still "hit bad guy with x attack till you can use y then use y"
The point I was making was, with the character I'm playing, with every "normal" attack I make, I get 1 out of 5 points. Once I have at least one of these points, I can use it on a slightly better attack. None of the attacks are exciting at all, I just plink away at zombies all day until my trigger finger is raw.
Sure, you could play Champs with just one button. You can play WoW with just one button, too. I could stab people all day with one button in GW2. What's your point? My point was that no matter what I'm doing in Secret World, I'm constantly pushing the same two buttons to get to 5 combo points to "unleash" an attack that doesn't impress.
It's the equivalent of firing off your Energy Builder five times and only being able to follow up with Demolish. Sorry, but that's not any character I've ever played in Champs. I guess your mileage may vary, and in that case, I'm sorry you're playing boring characters.
Okay, Biff. Here's the skinny. You don't get respecs because you earn AP/SP the entire time you're playing. Enough to totally fill out the skill wheel and then some.
That said....you'll NEED to fill out the skill wheel and carry a weapon or two of every type, as well as a full set of talismans for several different styles of play. A +HP/+Defense set so you can be tanky, a +tohit/+crit set to be DPS, a +heal set to heal. (Ths personally killed the game for me, as I hit a literal brick wall in content about halfway through the game)
The storyline mission (main) isn't meant to be followed exclusively. You're supposed to branch off and do the side mishes to "level up" even though the game touts "NO LEVELS!"
Usually, doing one of the side mishes...I've found the end of it puts me right near another mish starter clicky.
The game starts you in a section of the world known as "Solomon Island" which consists of three zones. Kingsmouth(the zombie town), The Savage Coast(Stephen King/Koontz tribute area), and Blue Mountain. Now there's no formula to advancing, you could hit all three at any time you'd like to...but nine in ten times you'd have your buttocks handed to you.
You don't level, but there's "Quality Level" that you're gauged by. Your GEAR needs to improve. So, starting out, you're QL 0. In Kingsmouth, you can go up to QL 3. Gear is color coded for quality, too. So a QL 3 green isn't as good as a QL 3 blue. It's recommended that one be in QL 3 blues before starting The Savage Coast. For the Blue Mountain series of missions, you'll need at least QL five blues to start. Most people say that Blue Mountain, the last part of Solomon Island is harder than the first part of the next world area. Meh.
After that, comes a world area known as "The Scorched Desert" that has three zones( I'm guessing) the first of which actually IS the Scorched Desert. The second, where I am currently stuck at, is "City of the Sun God". Thing is, I'm in QL 10 blues, which is as high as you can get in gear without grinding out PvP content or nightmare dungeon runs and stuck like chuck. I need to go back and grind content I've done twice already to further expand my wheel, or so I'm told. Bullpucky, I say. Why can't I do the entire game's content with just the initial two weapon picks? "The game isn't designed like that!" people say. To which I reply, "Okay..fine. Keep the game, then." and unsub. This was a week before the B2P model was announced. I'm still not going back, though.
I dont agree with all of the details of your post, but many of the points seem pretty spot on to me.
Cryptic did invest some of the money back into CO. Perhaps not as much as the playerbase might like, but the game has seen development since launch.
I completely agree with you about Tyshen, but at least some of the blame for CR misconduct should be laid at Stormshade's feet.
I have mixed feelings about the grab bag, "gambling." I don't think that its really any worse than collectible card games, but I'm not sure that is saying much. I doubt very much that they are illegal in the U.S.
I disagreed with you more than I agreed over the years, but I do hope that you find a game to suit your needs.
Okay, Biff. Here's the skinny. You don't get respecs because you earn AP/SP the entire time you're playing. Enough to totally fill out the skill wheel and then some.
Yes, I was told that after asking about it (though again, this is something that should be told to you by the game before you even assign your first points. It's not every MMO where you get to spec into EVERYTHING all at once).
But the crappy part is, I've spent all my points at the moment on Pistols and Assault Rifle. So, I gotta go do a bunch more missions now all gimpy because I'm new to the game? Ehh, that's lame. Just as lame as when Champs only allowed you to retcon 10 powers.
That said....you'll NEED to fill out the skill wheel and carry a weapon or two of every type, as well as a full set of talismans for several different styles of play. A +HP/+Defense set so you can be tanky, a +tohit/+crit set to be DPS, a +heal set to heal. (Ths personally killed the game for me, as I hit a literal brick wall in content about halfway through the game)
Dealbreaker. Absolute dealbreaker for me. In fantasy games, I'm very partial to swords. Imagine my surprise when I found out in GW2 that I'm going to have the same 5 attacks for the rest of my days.
If I have to go around and be all twinkly toes casting spells at zombies and then pretending to be a samurai with a little sword... I think I won't bother launching the game again.
The storyline mission (main) isn't meant to be followed exclusively. You're supposed to branch off and do the side mishes to "level up" even though the game touts "NO LEVELS!"
Usually, doing one of the side mishes...I've found the end of it puts me right near another mish starter clicky.
Yeah, I'm rarely one to pass up a side mission, which is why it irks me that I can only have 3 side missions at a time. "I cannot hold more than 5 tasks in my brain, people! I'll come back and save your life after I've given this badge back to the police chief for some reason!"
And yeah, the whole "no levels" thing is as stupid as "dynamic events." They're old ideas with a shiny paintjob to appease all the easily-distracted cynics.
The game starts you in a section of the world known as "Solomon Island" which consists of three zones. Kingsmouth(the zombie town), The Savage Coast(Stephen King/Koontz tribute area), and Blue Mountain. Now there's no formula to advancing, you could hit all three at any time you'd like to...but nine in ten times you'd have your buttocks handed to you.
You don't level, but there's "Quality Level" that you're gauged by. Your GEAR needs to improve. So, starting out, you're QL 0. In Kingsmouth, you can go up to QL 3. Gear is color coded for quality, too. So a QL 3 green isn't as good as a QL 3 blue. It's recommended that one be in QL 3 blues before starting The Savage Coast. For the Blue Mountain series of missions, you'll need at least QL five blues to start. Most people say that Blue Mountain, the last part of Solomon Island is harder than the first part of the next world area. Meh.
Doubt I'll get that far, but duly noted. I've been keeping my gear up to snuff pretty well by this point, with a mix of greens and blues.
After that, comes a world area known as "The Scorched Desert" that has three zones( I'm guessing) the first of which actually IS the Scorched Desert. The second, where I am currently stuck at, is "City of the Sun God". Thing is, I'm in QL 10 blues, which is as high as you can get in gear without grinding out PvP content or nightmare dungeon runs and stuck like chuck.
Ouch. More things I don't want to do. Well, maybe the PvP, but still probably moot.
I need to go back and grind content I've done twice already to further expand my wheel, or so I'm told. Bullpucky, I say. Why can't I do the entire game's content with just the initial two weapon picks? "The game isn't designed like that!" people say. To which I reply, "Okay..fine. Keep the game, then." and unsub. This was a week before the B2P model was announced. I'm still not going back, though.
Thanks for letting me know about that. SERIOUS dealbreaker. It's as if my all-Might character needed to take some wispy pink healybob and some EAT YOUR SOUL darkness power in order to progress. No thanks.
In CO, if I so choose, I start with "y" and never have to use "x".
Question for those who have played both CO and TSW,
Is it the difference between a story/character driven drama and a blockbuster shoot 'em up movie ?
I love both types and can handle a game not being as action driven if the story, mood, and such are decent.
Basically, yes. It plays very much like single-player story-driven games like Silent Hill (at least it has that ambiance) and the like. It seems well-written, mostly-well-executed, and if you really like to get deeply involved in stories, yeah you'll probably love it.
Most of the time I'm playing it, it feels like a console story game (not a bad thing, just what it feels like) or like it could have just been a movie and I could have skipped all the boring combat.
The graphics are good if you like realistic style stuff, the mechanics have a somewhat steep learning curve, but nothing you can't handle.
It's honestly not a bad game, but just grossly not for me.
TSW is not action oriented per se (though, the combat is far more challenging than CO), but a more cerebral game that emphasizes investigation and puzzle solving, with combat in between. Some missions (called Sabotage missions) even focus on avoiding confrontations altogether and attepting to achieve your objectives through stealth and evasive strategy.
Other missions focus on combat (particularly as you advance further in the game), but combat in TSW is about facing off against supernatural horrors and struggling to stay alive rather than just roflstomping through them. So the battles take longer and you have to work harder to stay alive than in most other MMOs.
The action and XP gain also picks up as you progress to the more advanced areas, and becomes significantly more challenging around the third zone (Blue Mountain) you hit in the earlier sections of the game.
I disagree that TSW isn't action oriented, I just think that it's not entirely based on it (which is kinda what you're saying, just a lil different). The thing is, TSW does many things amazingly, but sadly due to it's control scheme and UI, the combat suffers. CO however, has nailed combat (to the ground? ) in almost every way (except balance, which is likely on purpose to an extent), but primarily making it accessible and fun.
Thanks for the mini-review of SW... I'm gonna go ahead and cross that off the list because what you described sounds just awful.
Seriously, don't write it off completely. Despite my severe dislike for their UI and controls the game is actually quite amazing it what it does do right, and there's a lot to be learned by the clever ways it structures it's missions. You want to talk about a Batman style detective/investigative alternate progression mechanic? TSW has that in spades, but it's not because of any ground-breaking systems. It's simply the way they use the typical MMO tools, much like what I previously said about the Bank Heist in CoV making use of MMO cliches to create something absolutely wonderful.
I generally don't like to see anyone go, but I'm particularly glad you're still here because despite your grumps you often have valid points (even if bathed in frustration), and any community that is comprised by nothing but bobble-headed yes-men is doomed.
What's with the mini reviews and guides of a-game-thats-not-CO being posted all of a sudden?
Remember when that sort of thing was verboten around here? Good times.
It's not so much reviewing or guiding a game-that's-not-CO, but rather examining the elements that work and why in the hopes of learning something from them.
And calling each other tards, cuz that's how we roll.
It's not so much reviewing or guiding a game-that's-not-CO, but rather examining the elements that work and why in the hopes of learning something from them.
And calling each other tards, cuz that's how we roll.
Just staying on topic, really. Player is leaving and mentioned a certain game he's going to... if the direction's gone that way, sure, why not, let's talk.
Better than everyone just agreeing that Secret World is the most amazing game ever and turning this topic into a recruitment shill. :P
My point was that no matter what I'm doing in Secret World, I'm constantly pushing the same two buttons to get to 5 combo points to "unleash" an attack that doesn't impress.
This is probably the single most common complaint about combat in TSW. Granted, you can also do bit more than that too--you can also alternate between single target or AoE attacks, let off (unimpressive) heals to keep you from the brink a few seconds longer, activate "turret" type or summon-like abilities that continuously attack enemies while you use other attacks, buff self and set status effects on enemies, etc. And the builder/consumer mechanic can also affect your combat strategy, since different consumer abilities have different costs (not all cost all 5 points), and you need to keep track of your builder counters and determine which consumer abilities to use next.
But that takes experience both, as a player, and also in terms of what abilities your character has had a chance to learn so far. And (as has already been mentioned in another post) if you learned a (currently) mismatched set of abilities that doesn't work well together, you have to grind your way into some extra abilities in a different weapon while using a set that doesn't work well and you don't like.
Though, Assault Rifle/Pistols is not necessarily a bad combo, it just depends on your playstyle and what abilities you've had a chance to learn. Both have some heals and hinders, with AR focusing more on the healing part and Pistols offering some support abilities (buffs, debuffs and some extra healing). Only problem is the range, since AR has the longest range in the game, while Pistols have the shortest range of all ranged weapons. But something could still be worked, and enemies will eventually reach close enough for Pistol abilities to come into range anyway.
I never understood why people think Secret World has challenging gameplay. It's very easy to get a handle on it. The only thing challenging about it is how buggy it is. It has a nice storyline but the whole thing is rather boring since the combat itself is rather bland and repetitive.
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
Dealbreaker. Absolute dealbreaker for me. In fantasy games, I'm very partial to swords. Imagine my surprise when I found out in GW2 that I'm going to have the same 5 attacks for the rest of my days.
Not quite accurate, even if you choose to restrict yourself to swords as your primary weapon. You will have a minimum of 14 combat skills.
Greatsword 5 + 1 adrenal skill
Sword 3 + 2 offhand (sword or shield offhand seem inline with what you seem to be looking for) + 1 adrenal skill. If you are willing to add mace and/or axe to your offhand list you add 4 more skills to the list. Then of course if you make sword your offhand and use axe or maxe in your main hand you essentially double the number of skills...all while remaining a swordsman.
Of course then you have your elite skill, utility skills, and a heal.
Please note that I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong to not enjoy GW2. Fun is subjective and if you dont enjoy the game you should of course not waste your time on it. I am merely pointing out some options on the chance that you missed them.
This is probably the single most common complaint about combat in TSW. Granted, you can also do bit more than that too--you can also alternate between single target or AoE attacks, let off (unimpressive) heals to keep you from the brink a few seconds longer, activate "turret" type or summon-like abilities that continuously attack enemies while you use other attacks, buff self and set status effects on enemies, etc. And the builder/consumer mechanic can also affect your combat strategy, since different consumer abilities have different costs (not all cost all 5 points), and you need to keep track of your builder counters and determine which consumer abilities to use next.
But that takes experience both, as a player, and also in terms of what abilities your character has had a chance to learn so far. And (as has already been mentioned in another post) if you learned a (currently) mismatched set of abilities that doesn't work well together, you have to grind your way into some extra abilities in a different weapon while using a set that doesn't work well and you don't like.
Though, Assault Rifle/Pistols is not necessarily a bad combo, it just depends on your playstyle and what abilities you've had a chance to learn. Both have some heals and hinders, with AR focusing more on the healing part and Pistols offering some support abilities (buffs, debuffs and some extra healing). Only problem is the range, since AR has the longest range in the game, while Pistols have the shortest range of all ranged weapons. But something could still be worked, and enemies will eventually reach close enough for Pistol abilities to come into range anyway.
You say that AR is for healing... I just find that weird. I saw that there's a support area for both pistols and healing but... I mean, come on? I'm shooting lifestealing bullets or something? Or is something else happening there? Anyway, in most games I play, I like to go complete offense (kill em before they can kill you) instead of defense/support. I just don't get why someone would say to themselves "Ah, yes, I'll pick up this assault rife so I can keep myself healed."
Just a real strange choice there, if you ask me.
The level-less system really muddies this up, too. In Champs it's pretty well known that around level 14 you're gonna be able to pick up a pretty badass attack. I have zero frame of reference for that in Secret World (granted, again, I'm totally new to it). But, it makes me wonder if maybe I should have just stuck with one weapon set, and maybe by this time I'd have some awesome shooty-shooty power that can take out a whole group of zombies in one or two hits, like those jerkwads that come along and lightning everything to death while I'm going "plink plink" with my Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
Not quite accurate, even if you choose to restrict yourself to swords as your primary weapon. You will have a minimum of 14 combat skills.
Greatsword 5 + 1 adrenal skill
Sword 3 + 2 offhand (sword or shield offhand seem inline with what you seem to be looking for) + 1 adrenal skill. If you are willing to add mace and/or axe to your offhand list you add 4 more skills to the list. Then of course if you make sword your offhand and use axe or maxe in your main hand you essentially double the number of skills...all while remaining a swordsman.
Of course then you have your elite skill, utility skills, and a heal.
Please note that I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong to not enjoy GW2. Fun is subjective and if you dont enjoy the game you should of course not waste your time on it. I am merely pointing out some options on the chance that you missed them.
True I did simplify a bit. But, I would have been a happy camper if I could use a greatsword for the entire time I was playing. I have no interest in choosing any other weapon (aside from maybe dual swords). Not a big fan of sword and shield either.
The elite skills didn't really impress me too much (I never got to level 30 with my Norn, that skill where you turn into a wolfman was pretty sweet). But, like I said earlier, it doesn't compare to the first time you get Force Cascade and fire it off and feel like a damn freight train doing it.
I had that in WoW, "Ooh at level 30 I can do this move! At level 40 I can do that!" and you get that in Champs as well. When my Warrior hit 30 in GW2, I was still sitting there using the same SWISH SWISH SWISH crazy monkey sword move and the same spinny spinny sword move, you know? Where's my new ape-poop greatsword murder-everything-right-now move? I never got that.
I need to go back and grind content I've done twice already to further expand my wheel, or so I'm told. Bullpucky, I say. Why can't I do the entire game's content with just the initial two weapon picks? "The game isn't designed like that!" people say. To which I reply, "Okay..fine. Keep the game, then." and unsub. This was a week before the B2P model was announced. I'm still not going back, though.
Actually, this isn't entirely accurate. Yes, a lot of people in TSW say you can't do the entire content with just two weapons--and yes, the game does emphasize branching out to a certain extend (primarily for the passive abilities, rather than the active abilities, which are the ones that require equiping specific weapons)--but I've done most of the game's content with just elemental focus and blood magic alone.
I've tried a couple of other weapons as well to change things around a bit and I played Elemental/AR for a while, but I went back to Ele/Blood eventually (which was my main's concept initially) and I haven't looked back. You do have to look into your build occassionally to check which passives you have, and shift around your focus depending on what type of resistances enemies have in whatever area you're at. But there's usually a way to do it without changing around both your weapons (assuming you have the active/passive abilities to be effective).
True I did simplify a bit. But, I would have been a happy camper if I could use a greatsword for the entire time I was playing. I have no interest in choosing any other weapon (aside from maybe dual swords). Not a big fan of sword and shield either.
The elite skills didn't really impress me too much (I never got to level 30 with my Norn, that skill where you turn into a wolfman was pretty sweet). But, like I said earlier, it doesn't compare to the first time you get Force Cascade and fire it off and feel like a damn freight train doing it.
I had that in WoW, "Ooh at level 30 I can do this move! At level 40 I can do that!" and you get that in Champs as well. When my Warrior hit 30 in GW2, I was still sitting there using the same SWISH SWISH SWISH crazy monkey sword move and the same spinny spinny sword move, you know? Where's my new ape-poop greatsword murder-everything-right-now move? I never got that.
Completely understood.
It took me a while to come to terms with the fact that, since I want an archer to use bows not swords, axes, etc, that progression for my character largely involved me getting better at using the skills he does have than continuously accumulating more and more powerful "moves."
I still find CO's combat to be some of the best gameplay I have ever encountered. No doubt in my mind whatsoever that the guys designing the game back in its infancy were right on target to capture the feel of comic book action. Kudos.
If you think normal combat is simple, try tanking. In reality you have only one button to press, it's called spin to win, and it's pretty much the only style of tanking you will see. You throw in extra buttons just to break the monotony, and later on in nightmares you might have to have one extra button for interrupts but as far as tanking is concerned, it never changes.
My major complaint about the secret world, cause I love the story, is the combat; for a game emphasizing atmosphere and horrors from beyond you do way too much damn fighting that it kills the mood, not to mention the over all oppressive atmosphere can be draining from a gamer's perspective after a while. I've actually felt drained after playing one or two hours of TSW.
You say that AR is for healing... I just find that weird. I saw that there's a support area for both pistols and healing but... I mean, come on? I'm shooting lifestealing bullets or something? Or is something else happening there? Anyway, in most games I play, I like to go complete offense (kill em before they can kill you) instead of defense/support. I just don't get why someone would say to themselves "Ah, yes, I'll pick up this assault rife so I can keep myself healed."
Just a real strange choice there, if you ask me.
Yeah, that part is a bit weird but that's precisely what you're doing--firing magic lifestealing bullets. Though, all weapons have a DPS path in addition to whatever area they focus on. You can/should take abilities from there to do decent damage. I believe that Redmist (if they haven't nerfed it) from AR is one of the stronger attacks in the game.
The level-less system really muddies this up, too. In Champs it's pretty well known that around level 14 you're gonna be able to pick up a pretty badass attack. I have zero frame of reference for that in Secret World (granted, again, I'm totally new to it). But, it makes me wonder if maybe I should have just stuck with one weapon set, and maybe by this time I'd have some awesome shooty-shooty power that can take out a whole group of zombies in one or two hits, like those jerkwads that come along and lightning everything to death while I'm going "plink plink" with my Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
The level-less aspect does remove that frame of reference. My experience is that you should try to learn a bit of everything since every weapon has something in it (in the passive abilities) you can use. Some of it takes a while to figure out and I had to spend hours reading the ability wheel to get it, but different passives may affect different types of attacks (chains, bursts, etc.) or give special benefits in certain circumstances and the like (a small heal over time uppon enemy kill, guaranteed crits every X number of attacks, Affliction effects every time you crit, etc.).
When leveling weapons, I tend to focus on just one part of the leveling path (DPS, or the second path, which varies by weapon: Survivability, Support or Healing) so I can level them faster without eating up so many of my skill points. You get most of the benefit from your gear, and level determines your gear QL so the other part of your weapon's skill level doesn't matter as much, specially if you're not gonna use it very often.
The only weapons I have heavily invested on both parts are Elementalism and Blood, and that was partly because I didn't realize how many skill points it took to level both parts up at the once.
Wow an MMO besides this one that looks interesting to me!
Pay once play forever... Really?
Gotta say this is hitting the spots.
Can't quit tho I'm LTS.
_____________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
I can't really fault any of your reasons for leaving. All the best.
Hmm, come to think of it - New Years Resolutions are coming up, might be a good idea to give CO the flick myself. Lock boxes are what's annoying me the most.
[...] Step 14: You bailed from your own events because you werent having fun.
Suuuurely this should have made you guys wake up to the problems of the game (if you bothered to play it). One example: I remember when Tyshen hosted a PvP event, she lasted 3 minutes before quitting and cancelling the event.
Any real employee would have examined what was the cause of things, taken notes and gone to the right person to discuss changes to better suit the game, but no...you did what the rest of the CO staff did to this whole game and its community, RAGE QUIT [...]
I remember this. The pvpers decided to show Tyshen everything that was wrong with pvp. Not surprisingly, it was overwhelming being rapidly assaulted with every known imbalance all at once.
Funny thing was, before this happened was that time where the devs were all excited about pvp. After this event... the enthusiasm died down as fast as... well, as fast as a lot of people's enthusiasm for pvp after they actually participate in it.
I don't remember any events of any kind after this... and the devs suddenly got real quiet.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Okay, and whose bright idea was it to troll the people who make the game?
Tiy: "I think I'll log in during my off hours and volunteer my time to run a nice community event..."
PvP Community: "Trololololololol!!"
That behavior was what drove folks like me out of doing PvP at all - looks like they managed to drive the devs completely out of the game.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I remember this. The pvpers decided to show Tyshen everything that was wrong with pvp. Not surprisingly, it was overwhelming being rapidly assaulted with every known imbalance all at once.
Funny thing was, before this happened was that time where the devs were all excited about pvp. After this event... the enthusiasm died down as fast as... well, as fast as a lot of people's enthusiasm for pvp after they actually participate in it.
I don't remember any events of any kind after this... and the devs suddenly got real quiet.
Keep "subtly" blaming PvP for everything that's wrong with the game. It'll probably be true if you push it hard enough.
The people that actually PvPed and were around back then are dropping like flies, so I'm sure you'll eventually get to write the history books.
Im totally guilty of being one of the main ones to cause her to rage quit. Ill come right out and say it..and after the false ban...it felt gooooooood. And also very karma.
You do something good and something good will happen to you.
You do something baaad or shameful...and you get hunted. Im a pve'er who knows how to pvp well so i wouldnt exactly blame pvpers.
We all wanted to do it :P dont lie now, i see you blushing!
Comments
To be honest the combat doesn't really do anything for me at all. Pick a couple weapons, build up combo points, unload, repeat. Granted I'm not really understanding what a lot of it really means "Exploits hindered state"... what does that mean? Can I apply hindered state to exploit it? Can I not apply it because I chose the wrong weapons to start with? Why did I bother picking up an assault rifle if no matter what group of zombies I attack, they're in my face and I'm shooting them point blank after a couple seconds. My character is constantly getting eaten by zombies while he just stands there with the odd dodge here and there... it just looks stupid. Combat was more fun in GW2 for me.
I get that it's more of a survival game, but if that's the case, the mood is shattered by me allowing five zombies to make a smorgasbord out of my face while I build up combo points to unleash a slightly better attack.
Blah, I gave the game a fair shake, and I honestly can't think of anything that would keep me playing. This game's gonna beat Age of Conan in my least-played-after-buying MMO list. I keep playing it trying to like it, but it just feels boring all around.
Funny note though, the investigation missions, while somewhat intriguing, are kinda funny. When the game first introduces them to you, it says "You might have to look outside the game to figure out the puzzles." Okay, neato. First thing I do is bring up the web browser and type some stuff relevant to the investigation mission. First thing that comes up: Mission walkthroughs! I wish real-world detectives wish they had it so good!
Also they could explain things a bit better. In the Something Wicked mission, I'd figured out the last part, but had no idea the birds were clickable. There's no indication of it.
Anyway, yeah. It's a neat game, I understand why some would like it, but probably anyone looking for a comic book experience is gonna be bored out of their gourd.
I swear that sounds familiar........
Unless I'm mistaken, Champs doesn't have a combo point system that only allows you to use certain powers after you've hit a certain bad gun X amount of times.
If you mean familiar as in Guild Wars 2 or WoW, by all means...
That's quote-worthy, right there. :biggrin:
The thing is Smacks, as much as I like you and this game, your description of SW would fit CO's current state perfectly too. I find it unbelievable that they don't realize that if meaningful content is launched soon, there will be no one left to be tempted to buy the **** that clutters up the Z store. The lair review is well overdue and we need a new zone soon, before its too late. If I didn't have a LTS, I too would have quit, as I refuse to pay them anymore money until the game content deserves it. If they offered a new expansion, I would gratefully pay for it, but not for ****ty grab bags and lock boxes.
Well, to you, maybe. I still enjoy the combat in this game. Stale content or no, I've never played another MMO that I actually enjoyed the combat as much as in Champs. Secret World, it could have years and years of content, but the basic mechanics of the game bore me so hard that I'll never get to know how much content it really has. I'm not going to sit through boring gameplay just to watch cutscene after cutscene of story after story to get to more content that I'm not gonna enjoy.
I gotta grant you a couple of points on what you said about combat. I wasn't exactly enamored with it at first and has become kind of an acquired taste. For me the things that did it about the game where the story and atmosphere, and the different focus in some of the missions involving investigation, with a story focus and stuff. CO's and GW2's combat are a bit more actiony and TSW's takes a bit of getting used to. Then again, so did CO's for me, but once I understood how things like charged and maintained attacks worked it became pretty intuitive fast, TSW is a bit clunkier and you still have to work for it even after you understand what you have to do. But it eventually comes to you if you give it a chance.
Stuff like "Exposed" and "Hindered" are different status effects that can be applied to enemies by certain attacks. Exposed are a type of Weakened state debuff, and Hindered include things like roots and snares. This site includes some guides that explain in detail about different weapon choices, and such if you want to give it a try. Understanding how different weapons and effects work takes some time, but its important to understand how to setup an effective build in the game and which weapon combinations to select.
Assault Rifles are good "leach" healing weapons (can attack and heal at the same time). You'll need to learn some attacks with "Hindered" to keep some enemies off you, but they'll always try to jump on you same as in other MMOs. Though, in TSW it becomes more apparent because they tried to setup an atmosphere that seems more realistic, which sometimes clashes with classic MMO mechanics like hit points and enemies keeping going at you even as you are (supposedly) blowing chuncks of them away.
I can't comment on SW as I haven't tried it...yet. I agree that CO's combat is enormous fun, but not challenging enough and the lack of content is inexcusable. The 'Rumble in the Jumble' was an awesome fight, but I wouldn't want to watch it a million times. Playing CO is rapidly become very repetitive and the only reason I am playing is because i keep hoping the game I love gets some attention from the developers and altitis. However, if this carries on, I will take an extended sabbatical until things improve.
When I started playing Secret World, it all seemed so alien to me. So I sat back and told myself "remember when you first played WoW and Champs, you were new there and didn't know anything. It'll be the same here." The other games came easier to me. It's not a bad thing, but, I say that to say this - giving the players a big, complex system with no chance of respeccing a character is just cruel. I took pistols and assault rifles because I didn't wanna be Merlin or Wolverine sucks (sorry, Wolverine, it's hard not to say sucks afterward), then I find out it was probably a bad choice. Now I have the choice of either playing my gimpy character for a dozen missions to learn some other weapon I might not enjoy using just to try to get something that applies a hindered state... why can't I just respec? It's another turnoff. For having such an uncompromising system, it really should lead you by the nose in earlier levels.
As far as challenge, I've never really had a problem with the game. I don't think I've ever build a character while thinking "What's the best possible combination of powers and superstats to make this guy a total badass?" I play what I think is fun (that turns out largely being Might :P), and don't worry about if I'll be able to take out cosmics or if I'll be able to run a lair that's 10 levels above me solo in under 15 minutes and not losing a fifth of my health bar. There's plenty of challenge in it for me, because I've never tried to be a power player (I'm not saying "nerf yourself to make the game fun," just saying that's never been an issue for me).
Lack of content? Yeah, you got a big point there.
This pretty much sums up why I'm still here. The combat mechanics in champions are fun. The first thing that got me to go YAY about this game was the first time I Roomsweepered a bunch of guys and sent them flying on my first toon, a behemoth AT... 11 levels in and I was hooked already. And after all this time, I'm still having a giggling good time roomsweepering folks on my FF behemoth. Also that costume editor, and the fact that the games looks rad. The game has a good solid foundation, which is the reason it will probably never die despite all the cries of doom.
Thanks for the mini-review of SW... I'm gonna go ahead and cross that off the list because what you described sounds just awful.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
That's Haymaker for me. :P
I wouldn't write it off completely. I didn't post to dissuade people from trying it. It's really well made and a lot of thought put into the story (more could be put into the combat systems, but I'm too new to really make that kind of statement).
It's butt-cheap, too. But yeah if you're a fan of action, it might not tickle your fancy. Also don't look at the price of trench coats! :biggrin:
Combo points, mana, endurance, energy, you can all it whatever you want, it's still "hit bad guy with x attack till you can use y then use y"
*takes a symbolic nail and hammers it into a symbolic coffin... then buries that symbolic coffin in a symbolic hole, and covers it with actual american concrete*
Or call it "lunge in and start beating the snot out of your opponent... then wait a half second while you get some energy, then resume beating snots"... or say "Activate Dark Transfusion and start laying waste to everything in sight with giant blasts of super powers... then activate dark transfusion and repeat" OR EVEN "run into a crowd of dudes, block while they all peck at you like mosquitoes, then unleass all hell on them and stomp them into mud".
It's been quite a while since I've had the "Use energy builder until you can use a power" expirience.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm sitting here right now starving, well empty of content, and just
really want to talk about this game.
There is a lesson in my cramped angry fasting.
We all must do our part to add content to the world we live in.
On that note, I'm going to go get quesadilla and a chicken burrito.
With that in mind, when I come back I want to see sombrero and poncho set in the Zstore.
The point I was making was, with the character I'm playing, with every "normal" attack I make, I get 1 out of 5 points. Once I have at least one of these points, I can use it on a slightly better attack. None of the attacks are exciting at all, I just plink away at zombies all day until my trigger finger is raw.
Sure, you could play Champs with just one button. You can play WoW with just one button, too. I could stab people all day with one button in GW2. What's your point? My point was that no matter what I'm doing in Secret World, I'm constantly pushing the same two buttons to get to 5 combo points to "unleash" an attack that doesn't impress.
It's the equivalent of firing off your Energy Builder five times and only being able to follow up with Demolish. Sorry, but that's not any character I've ever played in Champs. I guess your mileage may vary, and in that case, I'm sorry you're playing boring characters.
REJOICE!
That's it I quit.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Okay, Biff. Here's the skinny. You don't get respecs because you earn AP/SP the entire time you're playing. Enough to totally fill out the skill wheel and then some.
That said....you'll NEED to fill out the skill wheel and carry a weapon or two of every type, as well as a full set of talismans for several different styles of play. A +HP/+Defense set so you can be tanky, a +tohit/+crit set to be DPS, a +heal set to heal. (Ths personally killed the game for me, as I hit a literal brick wall in content about halfway through the game)
The storyline mission (main) isn't meant to be followed exclusively. You're supposed to branch off and do the side mishes to "level up" even though the game touts "NO LEVELS!"
Usually, doing one of the side mishes...I've found the end of it puts me right near another mish starter clicky.
The game starts you in a section of the world known as "Solomon Island" which consists of three zones. Kingsmouth(the zombie town), The Savage Coast(Stephen King/Koontz tribute area), and Blue Mountain. Now there's no formula to advancing, you could hit all three at any time you'd like to...but nine in ten times you'd have your buttocks handed to you.
You don't level, but there's "Quality Level" that you're gauged by. Your GEAR needs to improve. So, starting out, you're QL 0. In Kingsmouth, you can go up to QL 3. Gear is color coded for quality, too. So a QL 3 green isn't as good as a QL 3 blue. It's recommended that one be in QL 3 blues before starting The Savage Coast. For the Blue Mountain series of missions, you'll need at least QL five blues to start. Most people say that Blue Mountain, the last part of Solomon Island is harder than the first part of the next world area. Meh.
After that, comes a world area known as "The Scorched Desert" that has three zones( I'm guessing) the first of which actually IS the Scorched Desert. The second, where I am currently stuck at, is "City of the Sun God". Thing is, I'm in QL 10 blues, which is as high as you can get in gear without grinding out PvP content or nightmare dungeon runs and stuck like chuck. I need to go back and grind content I've done twice already to further expand my wheel, or so I'm told. Bullpucky, I say. Why can't I do the entire game's content with just the initial two weapon picks? "The game isn't designed like that!" people say. To which I reply, "Okay..fine. Keep the game, then." and unsub. This was a week before the B2P model was announced. I'm still not going back, though.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Remember when that sort of thing was verboten around here? Good times.
At least I actually missed you when you were banned. I liked when this guy was banned better.
*strolls to an english class and eats the teacher, under the table*
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
Cryptic did invest some of the money back into CO. Perhaps not as much as the playerbase might like, but the game has seen development since launch.
I completely agree with you about Tyshen, but at least some of the blame for CR misconduct should be laid at Stormshade's feet.
I have mixed feelings about the grab bag, "gambling." I don't think that its really any worse than collectible card games, but I'm not sure that is saying much. I doubt very much that they are illegal in the U.S.
I disagreed with you more than I agreed over the years, but I do hope that you find a game to suit your needs.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
In CO, if I so choose, I start with "y" and never have to use "x".
Question for those who have played both CO and TSW,
Is it the difference between a story/character driven drama and a blockbuster shoot 'em up movie ?
I love both types and can handle a game not being as action driven if the story, mood, and such are decent.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Yes, I was told that after asking about it (though again, this is something that should be told to you by the game before you even assign your first points. It's not every MMO where you get to spec into EVERYTHING all at once).
But the crappy part is, I've spent all my points at the moment on Pistols and Assault Rifle. So, I gotta go do a bunch more missions now all gimpy because I'm new to the game? Ehh, that's lame. Just as lame as when Champs only allowed you to retcon 10 powers.
Dealbreaker. Absolute dealbreaker for me. In fantasy games, I'm very partial to swords. Imagine my surprise when I found out in GW2 that I'm going to have the same 5 attacks for the rest of my days.
If I have to go around and be all twinkly toes casting spells at zombies and then pretending to be a samurai with a little sword... I think I won't bother launching the game again.
Yeah, I'm rarely one to pass up a side mission, which is why it irks me that I can only have 3 side missions at a time. "I cannot hold more than 5 tasks in my brain, people! I'll come back and save your life after I've given this badge back to the police chief for some reason!"
And yeah, the whole "no levels" thing is as stupid as "dynamic events." They're old ideas with a shiny paintjob to appease all the easily-distracted cynics.
Doubt I'll get that far, but duly noted. I've been keeping my gear up to snuff pretty well by this point, with a mix of greens and blues.
Ouch. More things I don't want to do. Well, maybe the PvP, but still probably moot.
Thanks for letting me know about that. SERIOUS dealbreaker. It's as if my all-Might character needed to take some wispy pink healybob and some EAT YOUR SOUL darkness power in order to progress. No thanks.
Hope to see you sometime in another game.
Basically, yes. It plays very much like single-player story-driven games like Silent Hill (at least it has that ambiance) and the like. It seems well-written, mostly-well-executed, and if you really like to get deeply involved in stories, yeah you'll probably love it.
Most of the time I'm playing it, it feels like a console story game (not a bad thing, just what it feels like) or like it could have just been a movie and I could have skipped all the boring combat.
The graphics are good if you like realistic style stuff, the mechanics have a somewhat steep learning curve, but nothing you can't handle.
It's honestly not a bad game, but just grossly not for me.
He's not wrong tho, that's the problem. (And I don't think he was calling us children, but rather the direction of the game).
I disagree that TSW isn't action oriented, I just think that it's not entirely based on it (which is kinda what you're saying, just a lil different). The thing is, TSW does many things amazingly, but sadly due to it's control scheme and UI, the combat suffers. CO however, has nailed combat (to the ground?
Seriously, don't write it off completely. Despite my severe dislike for their UI and controls the game is actually quite amazing it what it does do right, and there's a lot to be learned by the clever ways it structures it's missions. You want to talk about a Batman style detective/investigative alternate progression mechanic? TSW has that in spades, but it's not because of any ground-breaking systems. It's simply the way they use the typical MMO tools, much like what I previously said about the Bank Heist in CoV making use of MMO cliches to create something absolutely wonderful.
I generally don't like to see anyone go, but I'm particularly glad you're still here because despite your grumps you often have valid points (even if bathed in frustration), and any community that is comprised by nothing but bobble-headed yes-men is doomed.
It's not so much reviewing or guiding a game-that's-not-CO, but rather examining the elements that work and why in the hopes of learning something from them.
And calling each other tards, cuz that's how we roll.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Just staying on topic, really. Player is leaving and mentioned a certain game he's going to... if the direction's gone that way, sure, why not, let's talk.
Better than everyone just agreeing that Secret World is the most amazing game ever and turning this topic into a recruitment shill. :P
This is probably the single most common complaint about combat in TSW. Granted, you can also do bit more than that too--you can also alternate between single target or AoE attacks, let off (unimpressive) heals to keep you from the brink a few seconds longer, activate "turret" type or summon-like abilities that continuously attack enemies while you use other attacks, buff self and set status effects on enemies, etc. And the builder/consumer mechanic can also affect your combat strategy, since different consumer abilities have different costs (not all cost all 5 points), and you need to keep track of your builder counters and determine which consumer abilities to use next.
But that takes experience both, as a player, and also in terms of what abilities your character has had a chance to learn so far. And (as has already been mentioned in another post) if you learned a (currently) mismatched set of abilities that doesn't work well together, you have to grind your way into some extra abilities in a different weapon while using a set that doesn't work well and you don't like.
Though, Assault Rifle/Pistols is not necessarily a bad combo, it just depends on your playstyle and what abilities you've had a chance to learn. Both have some heals and hinders, with AR focusing more on the healing part and Pistols offering some support abilities (buffs, debuffs and some extra healing). Only problem is the range, since AR has the longest range in the game, while Pistols have the shortest range of all ranged weapons. But something could still be worked, and enemies will eventually reach close enough for Pistol abilities to come into range anyway.
Not quite accurate, even if you choose to restrict yourself to swords as your primary weapon. You will have a minimum of 14 combat skills.
Greatsword 5 + 1 adrenal skill
Sword 3 + 2 offhand (sword or shield offhand seem inline with what you seem to be looking for) + 1 adrenal skill. If you are willing to add mace and/or axe to your offhand list you add 4 more skills to the list. Then of course if you make sword your offhand and use axe or maxe in your main hand you essentially double the number of skills...all while remaining a swordsman.
Of course then you have your elite skill, utility skills, and a heal.
Please note that I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong to not enjoy GW2. Fun is subjective and if you dont enjoy the game you should of course not waste your time on it. I am merely pointing out some options on the chance that you missed them.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
You say that AR is for healing... I just find that weird. I saw that there's a support area for both pistols and healing but... I mean, come on? I'm shooting lifestealing bullets or something? Or is something else happening there? Anyway, in most games I play, I like to go complete offense (kill em before they can kill you) instead of defense/support. I just don't get why someone would say to themselves "Ah, yes, I'll pick up this assault rife so I can keep myself healed."
Just a real strange choice there, if you ask me.
The level-less system really muddies this up, too. In Champs it's pretty well known that around level 14 you're gonna be able to pick up a pretty badass attack. I have zero frame of reference for that in Secret World (granted, again, I'm totally new to it). But, it makes me wonder if maybe I should have just stuck with one weapon set, and maybe by this time I'd have some awesome shooty-shooty power that can take out a whole group of zombies in one or two hits, like those jerkwads that come along and lightning everything to death while I'm going "plink plink" with my Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
True I did simplify a bit. But, I would have been a happy camper if I could use a greatsword for the entire time I was playing. I have no interest in choosing any other weapon (aside from maybe dual swords). Not a big fan of sword and shield either.
The elite skills didn't really impress me too much (I never got to level 30 with my Norn, that skill where you turn into a wolfman was pretty sweet). But, like I said earlier, it doesn't compare to the first time you get Force Cascade and fire it off and feel like a damn freight train doing it.
I had that in WoW, "Ooh at level 30 I can do this move! At level 40 I can do that!" and you get that in Champs as well. When my Warrior hit 30 in GW2, I was still sitting there using the same SWISH SWISH SWISH crazy monkey sword move and the same spinny spinny sword move, you know? Where's my new ape-poop greatsword murder-everything-right-now move? I never got that.
Actually, this isn't entirely accurate. Yes, a lot of people in TSW say you can't do the entire content with just two weapons--and yes, the game does emphasize branching out to a certain extend (primarily for the passive abilities, rather than the active abilities, which are the ones that require equiping specific weapons)--but I've done most of the game's content with just elemental focus and blood magic alone.
I've tried a couple of other weapons as well to change things around a bit and I played Elemental/AR for a while, but I went back to Ele/Blood eventually (which was my main's concept initially) and I haven't looked back. You do have to look into your build occassionally to check which passives you have, and shift around your focus depending on what type of resistances enemies have in whatever area you're at. But there's usually a way to do it without changing around both your weapons (assuming you have the active/passive abilities to be effective).
Completely understood.
It took me a while to come to terms with the fact that, since I want an archer to use bows not swords, axes, etc, that progression for my character largely involved me getting better at using the skills he does have than continuously accumulating more and more powerful "moves."
I still find CO's combat to be some of the best gameplay I have ever encountered. No doubt in my mind whatsoever that the guys designing the game back in its infancy were right on target to capture the feel of comic book action. Kudos.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
My major complaint about the secret world, cause I love the story, is the combat; for a game emphasizing atmosphere and horrors from beyond you do way too much damn fighting that it kills the mood, not to mention the over all oppressive atmosphere can be draining from a gamer's perspective after a while. I've actually felt drained after playing one or two hours of TSW.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Yeah, that part is a bit weird but that's precisely what you're doing--firing magic lifestealing bullets. Though, all weapons have a DPS path in addition to whatever area they focus on. You can/should take abilities from there to do decent damage. I believe that Redmist (if they haven't nerfed it) from AR is one of the stronger attacks in the game.
The level-less aspect does remove that frame of reference. My experience is that you should try to learn a bit of everything since every weapon has something in it (in the passive abilities) you can use. Some of it takes a while to figure out and I had to spend hours reading the ability wheel to get it, but different passives may affect different types of attacks (chains, bursts, etc.) or give special benefits in certain circumstances and the like (a small heal over time uppon enemy kill, guaranteed crits every X number of attacks, Affliction effects every time you crit, etc.).
When leveling weapons, I tend to focus on just one part of the leveling path (DPS, or the second path, which varies by weapon: Survivability, Support or Healing) so I can level them faster without eating up so many of my skill points. You get most of the benefit from your gear, and level determines your gear QL so the other part of your weapon's skill level doesn't matter as much, specially if you're not gonna use it very often.
The only weapons I have heavily invested on both parts are Elementalism and Blood, and that was partly because I didn't realize how many skill points it took to level both parts up at the once.
Pay once play forever... Really?
Gotta say this is hitting the spots.
Can't quit tho I'm LTS.
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The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
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This was awesome while it lasted
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With SW becoming a free-2-play (after purchase) the only thing putting me off that game has been removed.
Yeah, it would be knife if they released some new content spoon...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Hmm, come to think of it - New Years Resolutions are coming up, might be a good idea to give CO the flick myself. Lock boxes are what's annoying me the most.
Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
I remember this. The pvpers decided to show Tyshen everything that was wrong with pvp. Not surprisingly, it was overwhelming being rapidly assaulted with every known imbalance all at once.
Funny thing was, before this happened was that time where the devs were all excited about pvp. After this event... the enthusiasm died down as fast as... well, as fast as a lot of people's enthusiasm for pvp after they actually participate in it.
I don't remember any events of any kind after this... and the devs suddenly got real quiet.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Tiy: "I think I'll log in during my off hours and volunteer my time to run a nice community event..."
PvP Community: "Trololololololol!!"
That behavior was what drove folks like me out of doing PvP at all - looks like they managed to drive the devs completely out of the game.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Keep "subtly" blaming PvP for everything that's wrong with the game. It'll probably be true if you push it hard enough.
The people that actually PvPed and were around back then are dropping like flies, so I'm sure you'll eventually get to write the history books.
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The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
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You do something good and something good will happen to you.
You do something baaad or shameful...and you get hunted. Im a pve'er who knows how to pvp well so i wouldnt exactly blame pvpers.
We all wanted to do it :P dont lie now, i see you blushing!