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ariesmajor
Posts: 394 Arc User
You know, you'll only be playing it for a week to a month and then run out of things to do yet again. Cmon now....lets be realistic here, the cap is still slated to 40, we still have the same mechanics in power sets, yet people keep clamoring about getting new content in the form of a new map, or a new comic scenario, etc etc etc. Deep down, you know thats not the answer. And deep down, you know that by saying you want new maps, you really mean "I want a new experience and a new feel while playing the game" deep down it all translates to, "I want replay value, I'm a veteran of this game and have been t here and done that so many times that it takes little to no effort, I've also memorized the story to the point where I can create a character based around the lore."
^^^^^You're not getting anywhere by asking for new maps and worlds that way, while still trying to optimize for replay value. Call of Duty tries to come out with map expansion after map expansion, the game is always repayable not because of the fact that there is a new jungle, but the fact that player interaction changes with every match. Its the reason you can play mario cart online, league of legends, hon, dota, and every other competitive game for years and years on end without it ever being....boring.
But champions online isn't a shooting game, and it isn't competitive. So how do you create replay value in an mmoRPG<
that makes the game live on as long and never get boring akin to other competitive games where the players create re playability and wild cards.
How do you do it? Well, answer is simple.
You utilize the same method the competitive games utilize to create replay value and long stints where no game is ever the same.
You utilize the wild card...the player element, the human element, the aspect of surprise, the aspect of loss of control.
The foundry. <----player created control, player created environment, player created content, player created delivery, human aspect of surprise, human aspect of failure and victory.
World of ******** could create 20 more expansions over the course of the next 50 years...thing is....people stopped giving a crap after about the 3rd expansion. You can only chalk up and collect the shiny so many times before the game stops being "fun" and starts being a collaboration of numbers, charts, graphs, and a mathematics class in the guise of a video game. <
problem is, this is what happens to a majority of mmos, and a majority of mmo franchises as they grow and continue along.
And just so the people reading this get an idea of what I'm talking about.....here's a little trivia question related to champions, that you can find the answer to within the first few hours of the game, but because the game slightly falls into that "anti fun" zone, a majority of you reading this post will not know the answer.
Why is Lin Qi associated with the Hi Pan gang area on that side of millinium city?
You don't know...yeah, I don't know either, why? Because we skipped it, we pressed A or clicked really really fast and didn't read a damn thing the quest line was talking about because we wanted to not waste time...or because we wanted the next set of gear, or boost in exp, so that we get what.....big shiny numbers from the next level etc etc.
It didn't matter to us....it wasn't flashy, there was no cut scene, nobody was talking, there was no shift in camera angles, no special effects, nothing memorable except the fact that we had to escort her around. <
this is what a majority of mmo's have become, this is also why "a new map" only lasts about a week to a month of being "new".
But there's a second side to this, a good side.
How many of you remember this line "we have to shut down....AAAAAAAALL THESE BEACONS! THEYRE BROADCASTING A SIGNAL THAT ARE MAKING THE QULAAR ATTACK!!@!@!#@!#@!#@.
Wanna know why you remember it? Because you didn't have the option to skip it, it was delivered with voice acting, and it was obnoxious to the point of being funny, ie Foxbat.
It was shoved down your throat. Do not pass go, do not collect eleventybillion dollars, sit down and enjoy the game. MeTaBOWLIC chaAAIN REaCTIOoooons<
impossible to forget.
We can keep requesting new maps, sure, fun times....when in reality its a bandaid temporary floosy where the high lasts about as long a nicotine rush. (I don't advocate smoking, do not try this at home, just take my word for it.)
If you want "New content" that isn't gonna get played out within the first couple of weeks that its out...your best bet is giving that interaction to the player human element. Let us create stories, let us choose the maps, let us choose the cut scenes, let us choose the special effects. Otherwise asking for new content is about as smart as asking for a new level on the Regular Nintendo version of Super Mario 1. You just expanded your game by....2 minutes....well, back to the drawing board, time to collect more revenue to make another level. zzzzzz
There's alot that Cryptic could learn from "The Foundry" system etc, but if we want this game to live on and be "fun" for once, instead of the usual number crunch chase the shiny, the answer isn't a single new campaign that comes out every 2 years, its player tools that allows a new campaign to come out every other week.
Don't ask for bandaids, ask for a medical journal so you can learn how to bandage on your own.
^^^^^You're not getting anywhere by asking for new maps and worlds that way, while still trying to optimize for replay value. Call of Duty tries to come out with map expansion after map expansion, the game is always repayable not because of the fact that there is a new jungle, but the fact that player interaction changes with every match. Its the reason you can play mario cart online, league of legends, hon, dota, and every other competitive game for years and years on end without it ever being....boring.
But champions online isn't a shooting game, and it isn't competitive. So how do you create replay value in an mmoRPG<
that makes the game live on as long and never get boring akin to other competitive games where the players create re playability and wild cards.
How do you do it? Well, answer is simple.
You utilize the same method the competitive games utilize to create replay value and long stints where no game is ever the same.
You utilize the wild card...the player element, the human element, the aspect of surprise, the aspect of loss of control.
The foundry. <----player created control, player created environment, player created content, player created delivery, human aspect of surprise, human aspect of failure and victory.
World of ******** could create 20 more expansions over the course of the next 50 years...thing is....people stopped giving a crap after about the 3rd expansion. You can only chalk up and collect the shiny so many times before the game stops being "fun" and starts being a collaboration of numbers, charts, graphs, and a mathematics class in the guise of a video game. <
problem is, this is what happens to a majority of mmos, and a majority of mmo franchises as they grow and continue along.
And just so the people reading this get an idea of what I'm talking about.....here's a little trivia question related to champions, that you can find the answer to within the first few hours of the game, but because the game slightly falls into that "anti fun" zone, a majority of you reading this post will not know the answer.
Why is Lin Qi associated with the Hi Pan gang area on that side of millinium city?
You don't know...yeah, I don't know either, why? Because we skipped it, we pressed A or clicked really really fast and didn't read a damn thing the quest line was talking about because we wanted to not waste time...or because we wanted the next set of gear, or boost in exp, so that we get what.....big shiny numbers from the next level etc etc.
It didn't matter to us....it wasn't flashy, there was no cut scene, nobody was talking, there was no shift in camera angles, no special effects, nothing memorable except the fact that we had to escort her around. <
this is what a majority of mmo's have become, this is also why "a new map" only lasts about a week to a month of being "new".
But there's a second side to this, a good side.
How many of you remember this line "we have to shut down....AAAAAAAALL THESE BEACONS! THEYRE BROADCASTING A SIGNAL THAT ARE MAKING THE QULAAR ATTACK!!@!@!#@!#@!#@.
Wanna know why you remember it? Because you didn't have the option to skip it, it was delivered with voice acting, and it was obnoxious to the point of being funny, ie Foxbat.
It was shoved down your throat. Do not pass go, do not collect eleventybillion dollars, sit down and enjoy the game. MeTaBOWLIC chaAAIN REaCTIOoooons<
impossible to forget.
We can keep requesting new maps, sure, fun times....when in reality its a bandaid temporary floosy where the high lasts about as long a nicotine rush. (I don't advocate smoking, do not try this at home, just take my word for it.)
If you want "New content" that isn't gonna get played out within the first couple of weeks that its out...your best bet is giving that interaction to the player human element. Let us create stories, let us choose the maps, let us choose the cut scenes, let us choose the special effects. Otherwise asking for new content is about as smart as asking for a new level on the Regular Nintendo version of Super Mario 1. You just expanded your game by....2 minutes....well, back to the drawing board, time to collect more revenue to make another level. zzzzzz
There's alot that Cryptic could learn from "The Foundry" system etc, but if we want this game to live on and be "fun" for once, instead of the usual number crunch chase the shiny, the answer isn't a single new campaign that comes out every 2 years, its player tools that allows a new campaign to come out every other week.
Don't ask for bandaids, ask for a medical journal so you can learn how to bandage on your own.
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I see what you are saying and i agree for the most part...but a fix on the huge bug problem
should be the first thing done imo. If you can't play the game without it being buggy, everything else kinda doesn't mean much.
And some Devs and mods. Fix the chat system. Then Foundry! That would be nice.
But...in the real world this Cryptic and PW. I don't expect any of the above to happen anytime soon.
That is probably the reason that Vehicles are so customizable, because they would not be as interesting if they were only Become devices.
We love customization. Customization leads to success. The Foundry represents the ultimate of game customization. The efforts to create a Foundry here will be well worth it.
So no. New content is in fact what we need. It's something every game of this type needs.
Also, UGC is great, but not a replacement for developer generated content.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Post Link 1
Post Link 2
...too lazy to rewrite the same arguments again
But yeah, new zones without re-playable content can be kind of a waste. So clearly the solution is to make it re-playable
Also, pion makes some good points on how they could use existing zones to expand the current content by using all the excess seccions that don't have any missions in them.
PS: I believe that the foundry can add a lot of gameplay, but I don't think that it is the magic solution either.
You know what's hilarious?
A long, long time ago, in a CO far, far different than this one, we were supposed to get a "flashback" system. Like Ouroboros in City of Heroes. From what I remember, it sounded like it could be used to repeat content you finished, or do content you missed on the proper level.
It might have just been Roper running his mouth, or something. I forget who actually made the post containing it. But it was talked about at some point, and then completely forgotten by players and devs alike.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
But i guess the Vehicles gave some replayability to the game, you now can do missions with your Vehicle. Wait you can't. The way they are customizable sure adds more longevity to the game.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
If they concentrated solely on content, then the people with high-end gear would blow through all of it in a day and then they'd be demanding content again. But, like you said, if we could have the Foundry... then we could solve this issue the way STO did! That's a pretty great idea.
And it wouldn't be that hard to work it in, I think. At one point in the past they said that they couldn't use STO resources in CO. But that's clearly changed, because they're doing just that, now. And considering that the engines are already similar, it might not take excessively long to actually just port it all over to CO.
That's a brilliant solution. I like this solution.
/signed
Player made content really only brings something significant to the very small fraction of players that want to see a more personal story realized, and don't see it as a powerleveling device or for trash "marysue" stories.
The devs could easily add more story arcs using existing zones; there are portions of the desert, canada, and MC that could be fleshed out more and added to. The key is also to make the rewards for doing so better. Give us a reason to do story arcs vs alerts. Make teaming for them more rewarding as well.
No... the foundry is not the panacea some see it as.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I agree in some extent. While it is not conclusive, in the 2 games I have seen that user-generated content was implemented, neither of those games was among the big ones(sorry but neither STO nor CoX are in the major leagues of mmos, good niche games but nothing beyond that). Additionally, it is argueable that UCG in those games boost their revenues significantly.
Depending how you focus a mmo you can divided into Sandboxes which depend almost entirely on player interaction, and themeparks which depends on content produced by devs for players.
For sandboxes devs instead of creating a lot of content develop mechanics for players to interact and grow in the world. Themeparks, needs content for player to clear.
However, even for games like wow it is pretty much impossible to release content fast enough to keep with players with high time allocation. Here is where replayability takes place but for a content to replayable would have to be in some way interesting but at the same time gives some benefit.
What it has shown to be the most successful approach is the famous carrot on a stick. This means the illusion that there is something nice at the end of the tunnel, but when reaching the tunner there is another tunnel which another promise at the end. The famous raiding mechanics is based on the premise of clearing a dungeon and get glory and gear for the next and more difficult one. This was probably what CoH tried to do in some way with its endgame but it was moreless too late.
This means that CO should go for a raid or die approach. I would say probably not. CO's community is not really prepared to go for hardcore stuff. However, it is possible to put some progression based on time which a slight curve of increasing difficulty with its corresponding achievements and rewards. The carrot on a stick is what tends to keep players on the game. A zone, a dungeon, even a new expansion is not taking that long to clear on easy difficulty is by wiping several times on a boss, learning to play well individually and obtaining a decent amount of teamwork that time pass in a game without people even noticing.
On anothe note, would it be possible to sandbox a superhero mmo. If possible it could be an interesint experiment.
Unless you're implying the developers at Cryptic aren't human.
This? This is sincerely brilliant logic.
/thread :cool:
You raise a truly most epic and excellent point, but I think it's also important to consider scale - i.e. content from Cryptic requires a small team devoted to creating a single... thing (whatevs) whereas the Foundry would be a tool that would allow an exponentially larger pool of people to develop content at a much higher rate for much lower cost, at which point the core team can focus on quality, creating better tools, and balancing whatever needs balancing, and adding fluff stuff like wall patterns and floor tiles and turret models to the z-store to continue revenue.
Foundry also serves the dual purpose of not only creating content for players by players, but taking up a sizeable amount of time from a pretty decent portion of the player base. Players will be creating content and consider it time well spent while not actually progressing through the game - it's the ultimate time sink.
Wasting player's time while they create more stuff for them to do and making them pay you for it.
It all now makes sense .
FREAKING DALEKS \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The business model is churn. We're all the gummy stuff stuck on the sides of the butter barrel. I suggest a vacation to another stick until you forget all the cracks.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Games which allow for player generated content or player created modding are given a longer shelf life.
Player generated content is a very mixed bag for each well thought out playable diamond there are ten fold ill-conceived unplayable lumps of coal.
In the case of CO the present dev team could not put the foundry system into CO and we will not get the increase in devs to make it possible. After NWN is launched the devs will be moved on to the unnamed project that Cryptic have already stated they are working on.
Cryptic do not see CO as a game to invest their development time on that is why our dev team is not growing but shrinking.
If we want the devs to make new things to do we have to give them ideas for using things that already exist for example making new missions in existing zones. Like making missions that utilise the oasis in the desert with demon that has no missions.
We have to start thinking smaller as CO is the old and unloved toy that they just don't want to throw away but can't be bothered to play with. We have to give our small dev team targets they can realise.
I don't expect a new zone or the foundry to ever be seen in CO just smaller bite sized content like alerts etc. They have just released Reloaded as a huge thing for CO and it contained a vehicle system based around the become devices that already existed and one new alert type mission. If Cryptic's CO dev team thought this was a big enough deal to do a name change and interviews with the press it shows the level of content we should expect and not Zones or the foundry.
I for one have reconciled myself to this and will play the game I enjoy and expect it to not have any major revamp until the churn makes it completely unprofitable and the doors are closed. Once I did this I became less upset about things and accepted the games limitations.
My only remaining hope is that at some time Cryptic decide making CO2 with all the new shinys I could ever want but I know that is a pipe dream.
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
The game had actual content. So much content...that you could play to the level cap multiple times while still never running some of it's content.
This was because they constantly came out with new every issue.
Meaning that if CO would continually put out content that we all keep asking for...the amount of content would obviously grow.
Just because they can't give us massive amounts of content in one fell swoop...doesn't mean they should just completely stop giving us new content here and there.
It adds up.
In my opinion...actual game content will always be better than player made content.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
It is the ultimate time sink, which is honestly realistically the only thing we're actually doing while playing this game....sinking time. One of the things people run into with the game currently is, they get a character up to level 40 run a couple of silver missions, gather up enough Questionite for Q gear, run nemcon a bunch of times, maybe farm, farm....and farm some more, RP around a bit. But the entire time they're doing that its almost like tunnel vision. You play through the zones without paying attention to the actual environment around you. One developer from Deus Ex, said that alot of content used for games doesn't even get seen by the player, by one of two ways. Either the game has so many achievements and little hidden content that 2% of the people who ever play the game even see it, or neglect, The game doesn't have loads upon loads of developer created content, and players are so busy flying through the world you created, that those little strips of paper blowing in the wind in that 1 zone end up kind of being a waste of resources.
Creating new maps and new scenarios that can be swooshed through so to speak in an mmo lead to that second part of what the developer was talking about. You end up being too busy racing through the content of the game, that there honestly was no point to hire a writer to come up with the dialog boxes because no one is reading them.
User generated content at its finest that I've seen this millennium can easily be pointed to Valve and alot of their source engine software. Players go through their games, enjoy what little story their is in Half Life, or Left 4 Dead, or Team fortress, and after they're done with it.....vale opens up the flood gates and lets the users come up with ideas. Who better to come up with a new zone or map or weapons for playing the game....than the players themselves?
Its become such a staple to the steam community that entire games....have come from user generated content. And sure, while the technicality involved with letting a player create something for Left 4 Dead vs Champions might be a bit far out, the same idea pursues. And sometimes if the user generated content gets rave revues from the players, the developers of the core game take note and even recommend the player base to try these add ons. The truth about it is, Left 4 dead and Half life came out when 2008? That game by itself, plus the fact that people still come up with mods, maps etc, has another 10 years at least until the games tech required to play it becomes completely outdated.
Left 4 Dead 2? Same thing applies it came out in 2009....that game will literally...never....die....EVER! It doesn't matter what comes out on the market from here on out, the games replay value is infinite. <
INFINITE! What other games on the market can say that?
Remember Dead Island? It was a fun year. Remember ****? That was a cool 2 years. Remember Left 4 Dead 2? Uhhhh it didn't go anywhere? BTW do you wanna join my vs match right now on this custom map? <
See the difference.
As far as monetization of anything like the foundry goes...be real...you can monetize anything....including the air you breath. Oxygen Therapy....
Monetizing it should never be a question because...its money, thats how it works.
The thing about chasing the shiney is....no matter what...you're always gonna get it. Thats all there is to it. You can only fit so many items into the database, unless you're releasing a new set of armor and weapons per day, or week....yeah, those asian kids are always gonna reach cap with max gear...thats how they roll, deal with it. So, you'll never truely extend the life of your cash cow by releasing new gear. All you did was extend peoples time sink by....5 hours. Good job, it only cost you 200,000$ to increase your revenue by .05% per year. Epic.....
What does valve do different? What does user generated content do different? Well....the games already been sold. The server time has already been paid for 10 fold. We already own a yacht. It was a huge success the first time, but...you know how much the fat guy likes money, oh you want that new turret for your custom map on Half life? No problem, the next source game you buy will let you port that over to the engine with ease, also thanks for buying the game that includes that turret. Now go and tell your friends how much fun you're having. <
This is what they're doing. A new map on Call of duty is not going to keep customers wanting to buy more or buying more. Keeping people playing your game for years, will make people want to buy more. If Valve said, hey guys, theres a new Left 4 Dead 3 coming out, sure it uses the same engine, but you've been playing our old games so long and buying for them that we could afford to come out with a part 3. 50$ a copy? Yep, heres my money.
When people lose faith in longevity or forget about your product, they also tend to forget where they left their wallets. If the Time sink is infinite.....you'll never forget about it.
If this is true, then what makes you think user generated content won't be treated the same way? Should all foundry created things be nothing but random missions strung together with little to no rhyme or reason?
Wouldn't anything made just get blown through or passed over because it didn't offer a good enough carrot on a stick?
I'm failing to see why UCG is the end-all, be-all since it's subject to the exact same treatment as developer created content. I agree it helps, but it's not *the* solution.
My problem with this argument is that it seems that you're suggesting that there *is* a "the solution" to be had and that failing to find that perfect solution constitutes a failure that is worse than doing nothing at all; given the vastly different personalities and preferences of the playerbase, I don't believe that is the case (and, perhaps it isn't something you meant to imply and I'm reading too much into your post- in fact, I'm sure of it, since you're last line acknowledges that UCG can help).
The thing is, while UCG may not be a panacea, and it probably won't really slow player whinging by a great deal (let's face it, people love to whine), it will help some- and some is better than the status quo (read: glacial progress and no clear plan indicated by the dev team).
tl/dr: something is better than nothing
Its about delivery, remember what I said in the first post. The quular lines that people don't forget aren't delivered in a wall of text. They're delivered in an auditory fashion, which means, unless you have your volume muted, the story is force fed, and your attention is grabbed alot easier than if a wall of text popped up in front of you that you really didn't care about. The same thing applies when your nemesis starts talking about their diabolical plan, they don't throw a wall of text in front of you when they're talking, the camera pans over to them, and even though they aren't given an auditory response, you're forced to pay attention because, there's a character in center view on your screen, and the only thing their doing is moving their mouth, <
the story is force driven because along with those mouth movements, a small bubble pops up above them containing what the character is saying and any story involved.
Nobody wants to read a congressional excerpt while playing their games, its boring. By making the story and quest lines more cinematic, you take away stress from the person playing the game, and allow them to actual immerse themselves in your story deeper. Its the reason why the final fantasy franchise has moved almost completely over to cinematic and voice acted storytelling. Because its easier and draws in more attention than a wall of text.
Look at star wars the old republic, not only is the story delivered to you cinematically, but you're forced to actively participate in the dialog and cause reactions within the storytelling. You're still telling the same story that you would if you just jumbled it all together in a long page format of wall text. But you're delivering it in a way thats more palatable to the audience.
If cryptic wants to make a system where users generate content like quests, its going to have to be in a cinematic way that pulls the attention of the players playing the missions. Otherwise if you don't, all you're doing is creating another swoosh dynamic where players run up to get the quest and press A really really fast to skip through all the walls.
Walls of text, easy to skip.
Thought bubbles, not so easy to skip
Voice acting, impossible to skip unless its annoying.
I mean look at skyrims extra resources spent on putting actual stories in those book items you can pick up off of near every shelf. Everyone knows and has permanent memories of what the gameplay and cinematic parts of the game explain as far as story goes. But the amount of players that actually pick up those books and read through them is ridiculously small. <
wasted resources due to a bad delivery.
There were even arcs that were so well done, that they became as close to official canon as the devs felt comfortable making them, complete with actual contacts to assign said missions.
The Foundry is what this game needs.
There is no guarantee people will simply play content because it exists.
There is certainly no guarantee that playing user created content will keep players around.
Look at all the content we already have in Champions and its the 200,000 new players
that have come and gone in the last eleven months that have never seen all that
content and quit the game before ever clamoring for more.
The jaded lifers and the vocal minority of subscribers aren't automatically going to
be happy with the content players create nor is there any guarantee they'll
produce worthwhile content for others. Have you read some of their RP?
Can you imagine being stuck in a lair of that stuff for twenty minutes?
If you really want a foundry to create hero adventures, I suggest you start looking at free game engines.
This one is mid-life, they will end it eventually.
Nothing you do here is yours, everything will belong to Cryptic and PWI, everything.
Every little effort of the community will be held back by waiting on some change by Cryptic.
Waiting for the foundry alone is six months if they start on it today.
The tools they use for the game now probably aren't even documented, that might
explain why objects are moving out of place on the map with each up date.
The basic MMO gameplay here is dated and an essential cause of the boredom people get from these games.
Review after review of newer MMOs rag about the "same tired mechanics".
We aren't likely to see sensible and yet extreme changes to the game mechanics.
Only a new team, a new game, with new tools without third party control of every
decision and action is going make that happen. Fresh blood, fresh money, fresh ideas.
If you start googling I'm sure you'll find the assets you'll need to visualize in 3D this Foundry idea.
Maybe there is already a hero game on the Greenlight project on Steam.
I agree with some of this disagree with other bits. The foundry to be honest hasnt set STO alight no one really does player made mishes anymore. So there we have agreement (shock horror ima agreeing with the pigtail monster :O sorry you do use pigtails WAYYYYYYY to much).
But the game being in midlife ...you dont know PWE much do ya. They dont end games they keep the lights on and try to flog sparkle ponehs and lockboxes to the diehard fans. In that respect CO's future is sorta bright ..the game will be around for ages but we will be drowning in lockboxes and cosmic keys
Also if you want to make games I would get Game Maker (google it I cant be arsed linking) I have the pro version but the basic one is rather good for making 16bit style games easily.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Let's combine our piles of lockboxes and see if we can make a pyramid out of them. :biggrin:
The problem with Mission Architect is that it broke immersion.
Your "contacts" were holographic images in a building and the missions were virtual reality.
They weren't "real".
This is why I believe that actual missions in the game are better than player made content.
Now maybe the foundry is set up better than Mission Architect and you can actually travel to locations for missions so that it feels as if they are actually part of the game.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Lets think bigger. Lets build a Deathstar outta lockboxes.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
http://dev.ryzom.com/projects/ryzom/wiki/Home
Hey I save you the trouble of googling!
But you see, the artists, programmers and other workers need their burgers and gingerales. So I doubt this idea would work without a full passionate and well-paid team. Even though the engine is free and opensource
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...the ultimate Contrast Moe (or not).
What's being misrepresented here is that most of the playerbase is casual, and the largest numbers won't stick around to grind. They'll sample what the game has to offer, and if they like the variety, they may hang around a bit before moving on. That's the key word: Variety. Champions Online is pretty great in regards to variety, but the Foundry could offer so much more in that regard.
Only a tiny minority of MMORPG players is interested in a gear treadmill. The reason for this is because most people who want that are either playing WoW or a suitable WoW 2.0 analogy. Champions Online is as far away from that as it could be, thus you need to market it at a different sort of person.
The Foundry would appeal to the sort of person who'd play CO, because it would provide fun variety for people to dink around and waste time in. Champions Online is a great game to just come and mess around in for a bit for a few hours of a couple of days each week. And the more options you have with how to spend your time will mean greater player retention in the broader sense.
Competing with WoW is always a fool's game. ArenaNet is now realising this as GW2 is seeing a mass exodus away, they're adding a new tier of grinding to try and fix this, and what are the majority saying to that? No. This is why CO would be very appealing to people who bought into the idea of GW2, if not the execution. That being a very casual friendly game.
To make this game a success, they need two things:
a.) More variety in the amount of missions you can pick up at any level.
b.) To advertise the game as a casual-friendly experience, that truly delivers on that.
Not everyone fetishises gear. In fact, I'd say that the vast majority in CO don't fetishise gear. It's never been that kind of game. There are games out there for that. CO doesn't have to be one of them. And every time Cryptic has gone the way of WoW, it's resulted in the game becoming a lot less profitable for them.
Give me new Comic Series and I will go through them a few times.
Give me a new Adventure Pack and I will play it at least once.
Give me the Foundry, I will author infinite hours of content and explore the depths of how far the engine can be pushed to squeeze out the best story and game experience. If the Foundry is just virtual reality, then that only means the possibilities are truly infinite. You could write your character's origin story within, take a different perspective on the tutorial battle of the Qularr as a team of experienced heroes on a whole different objective than tutorial players, or even recreate the day VIPER went public as actual playable content... or you can just make World 1-1 from Mario Bros, or E1M1 from Doom. Whatever you wanna do.
The Foundry represents possibility and potential, and I feel we should get it ASAP.
Interesting - I also had the same issue with Mission Architect, made you feel like your character was living in a holodeck entertainment experience. It makes sense for Star Trek as a Holo Deck type thing. If we were to ever get the Foundry for CO; I would hope that it was not packaged as a hologram type experience; but as more of a Crime Computer with Teleporter.
Ew....don't get me started with the hero engine...I still have my developer account with it and test maps set up for a horror game that allows you to play as the killer instead of the person in distress. Long story short, the amount of man hours and size of team needed just to sort out the clipping and physics pissed me beyond off..aaaaaand I hated the grass...aaaaaaand the amount of resources allocated for simple scripts. I've developed entire maps, character models, and control objects without a single gingerale or fresh baked cookie. (And speaking to you as someone who said they want to go up in the game development industry...please leave those damn catering tables alone. Whats that you say? We were supposed to be done with the event scripts by 4oclock, my bad, we were too busy playing basketball with jelly beans and getting up every 10 minutes to get another cupcake.)
Trying to build new from scratch is never the right answer if you already have loads to work from.
Champions game engine....ok so it isn't source engine, it isn't unreal engine, it isn't cry engine, and it isnt hero....and it still uses a majority of code to allow the game to be Xbox'd. The only difference between sitting in front of a game engines core studio, vs a source engines creative studio, is the fact that you can't add on extra lines of code to the game in a creative suite. You can only take what exists, and alter it based on what the engine is capable of.
I'd like to see the evidence to back up those statements. Or, are you just pulling them out of thin air?
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
They came out of my butt. That's where all the numbers are. They're a jumbled mess though, so accuracy is pretty low.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The **** of INFINITE HOLDING returns \o/ All hail Smoochans HYPNOBUTT!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
omg, quit staring at it!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Nepht isn't staring she is casing it out so her Super villains can rob it just to see what is hidden there. Worry when she puts on the rubber gloves .............Wait I'm stopping before I enter the realms of bad taste.:redface:
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Actually I think thats were Dr Destroyer has his secret base.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Of course there's the issue of new content not pleasing everyone. I still remember how people were complaining about having to go through the bases in SL, or the amount of time VB Apocalypse needs completing before the actual zone can be accessed, or something trivial like Aftershock's cutscenes.
Let me elaborate:
Which kind of people will be creating content with the Foundry? RPers, most Forumites, the occasional casual player.
Which kind of people will be playing content made in the Foundry? RPers, most Forumites, the occasional casual player.
What about the PvP crowd, the Gear-Grinders, the Farmers, the other casual players? While I'd personally like to play content made by our top community members, like Thundrax, Keiko, JonSills, etc., because they'd tell compelling, interesting and immersive stories and I'd also love to create those stories myself, which of the above mentioned people will, unless there are ridiculous rewards that come with content made in the Foundry.
If you pick a random person in Ren Cen, MC 1 and ask them:
Do you want to experience the origin story of [Insert fanon character]?
Do you want to fight through the Qularr invasion from a different perspective?
Do you want to know what happened on the 'Green Monday'?
...then the answer (and here I am almost 100% sure) will be: Do I get Exp/Q/Resources/Mods from it?
As much as I'd personally like to have the Foundry - I have literally dozens of missions, Alerts, storylines, etc. only featuring Dr. Kaufmann as the villain in my head - I also realize that it just isn't the thing we need right now.
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
Oh, and unless the devs are absolutely clueless about game design and don't understand that playable content that requires an investment in time and effort should give rewards upon completion, I'm pretty sure there will be some form of rewards relevant to the current game mechanics for The Foundry.
The one benefit that The Foundry would have is that it can provide a lot of variation in terms of content, and anything that doesn't feel repetetive or at least lowers the feeling of repetetiveness would be a huge plus for the game.
And then it'll be a bunch of exploit missions...
Wait? Whaaaa..?
I could disagree with some of his specifics, but what he's saying is well known. If you need evidence, look no further than Tribes: Ascend. If what he said wasn't incredibly true about games at large, you wouldn't have one of the most balls to the walls hard shooter series in the history of PC gaming going out of its way to implement game modes and weapons specifically to cater to a lower level of skill.
Heck, they even lowered the price of all their new weapons, as well as made the weapon upgrade system automatic, because they were losing players over the fact your average player didn't play enough to meet the grind requirements. The result was that the game was getting a very bad pay to win reputation, once they greatly lowered the grind the game saw a rise in players and as such a rise in customers.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Way too late, man, way too late...
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
It is not just about gear. It is about goals. No matter what content, players want to have a reason to run them, gear, Q, gold, perks, costume piece, take your pick. Foundry, without a long term endgame set of goals or progression will do no much for boosting the game in the long run. A good carrot on a stick works better than tons of unspecified content.
I just created a new character, and although nothing that drops before doing endgame stuff is of any use im playing through all the best storylines for fun! Will not be doing a single alert till i get to 40.
"Learning the Ropes" was my replacement for the standard 1-5 content until they revamped the official content and "Talos Vice" was one of my favorite story arcs, canon or not.
Going back and being able to re-run just about any storyline like Ouro would be a great feature to have and I'll miss it greatly when CoH goes dark. Call it the re-print system or something.
MA had its fair share of farmers and their xp exploits but if they weren't farming the newest fire map in MA they'd be farming Unai Kemen's demon maps or whatever the best XP/drops per time map was.
Just being able to delevel and do things you missed though wouldnt achieve that, they would need to make all misions re doable and infinately repeatable using this system.
Heres an idea : Finish the hideout training areas and let that be able to call any enemy type or single super villian etc you have previously defeated, and be an entry point to replay missions like holgraphic/vr from the chrs point of view - training methods etc...
I can't see why you wouldn't. Regular Foundry missions would work like regular instances or alerts. Make a Cryptic Choice of the Week Daily available for Q drops.
Now, I'd have to see how Foundry 2.0 works in Neverwinter to get a good idea if they've worked out the kinks that overwhelmed Mission Architect but I believe we're already most of the way there.