(And speaking to you as someone who said they want to go up in the game development industry...please leave those damn catering tables alone. Whats that you say? We were supposed to be done with the event scripts by 4oclock, my bad, we were too busy playing basketball with jelly beans and getting up every 10 minutes to get another cupcake.)
:biggrin:
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
Though I found myself unable to do anything unless I'm full, so yeah. But when I do something, it's good work so I guess I'm fine with that
Rewards are nice, but for fun content, stuff to do, i couldnt care less about rewards!
I just created a new character, and although nothing that drops before doing endgame stuff is of any use im playing through all the best storylines for fun! Will not be doing a single alert till i get to 40.
This is what I do with every toon. Alerts are for mod and Q grind. Nothing more. IMO, anyone that uses them to level quicker has no right to complain about a lack of content when they're skipping over it by using alerts. This statement does not apply to any players that have already done everything in the game through leveling multiple toons.
I do agree with you to some extent. Having the foundry in CO would be a great addition to this game. It would allow players to write their own stories that they could share with friends which would help make them more invested in the game and would most likely prove to be a decent time sink for many players.
I do have a few disagreements with how you seem to think it would, or should, work however.
You mention custom voiceovers and cutscenes. This is something that I think would be extremely unlikely and is a bit of an unrealistic expectation that shouldn't be encouraged among players since it would raise the bar too high and would create possible disgruntlement and complaints among players because the devs didn't, or couldn't, live up to their expectations.
One thing that should be taken into account is where exactly would those voiceovers come from? Should the devs be expected to go and find people to do voiceovers for our content just because we think it would be neat to have someone actually talking in our missions or would be have to provide our own voiceovers and if that's the case, there's the matter of them having to make sure that what's made isn't offensive meaning they'd have to review all content made by players.
This doesn't even consider the amount of memory it would take to store all these new player made missions if we were able to make our own cutscenes complete with voiceovers.
What you've said in this thread leaves the impression that you want the ability to make highly detailed missions that equal, or possibly even surpass, the amount of depth that can be found in developer made content but, you also seem to want it to be possible to make this user generated content quickly with next to no fuss or worrying about details. To me, the two wants seem to be exclusive of each other.
I also don't think that adding the foundry would be a magical cure all for CO. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but, it seems to me that you think it would be and while I think it would be a great addition to this game, I don't think it would come anywhere near accomplishing what you think it will. I'd have to look back to double check but, I think a couple of the games you pointed at as examples are ones where players are pitted against each other. The thing that has to be kept in mind when looking at games like that is that what would be called the content isn't what the devs and other players produce. It's the player themselves. The sitation on those games is reversed from the one in CO. Maps and other products of that nature aren't what it is you're doing in those games. You're not trying to beat the map. You're trying to beat the players. The map is just what you do it on. It's their equivalent of a new framework.
I do agree with you to some extent. Having the foundry in CO would be a great addition to this game. It would allow players to write their own stories that they could share with friends which would help make them more invested in the game and would most likely prove to be a decent time sink for many players.
I do have a few disagreements with how you seem to think it would, or should, work however.
You mention custom voiceovers and cutscenes. This is something that I think would be extremely unlikely and is a bit of an unrealistic expectation that shouldn't be encouraged among players since it would raise the bar too high and would create possible disgruntlement and complaints among players because the devs didn't, or couldn't, live up to their expectations.
One thing that should be taken into account is where exactly would those voiceovers come from? Should the devs be expected to go and find people to do voiceovers for our content just because we think it would be neat to have someone actually talking in our missions or would be have to provide our own voiceovers and if that's the case, there's the matter of them having to make sure that what's made isn't offensive meaning they'd have to review all content made by players.
This doesn't even consider the amount of memory it would take to store all these new player made missions if we were able to make our own cutscenes complete with voiceovers.
What you've said in this thread leaves the impression that you want the ability to make highly detailed missions that equal, or possibly even surpass, the amount of depth that can be found in developer made content but, you also seem to want it to be possible to make this user generated content quickly with next to no fuss or worrying about details. To me, the two wants seem to be exclusive of each other.
I also don't think that adding the foundry would be a magical cure all for CO. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but, it seems to me that you think it would be and while I think it would be a great addition to this game, I don't think it would come anywhere near accomplishing what you think it will. I'd have to look back to double check but, I think a couple of the games you pointed at as examples are ones where players are pitted against each other. The thing that has to be kept in mind when looking at games like that is that what would be called the content isn't what the devs and other players produce. It's the player themselves. The sitation on those games is reversed from the one in CO. Maps and other products of that nature aren't what it is you're doing in those games. You're not trying to beat the map. You're trying to beat the players. The map is just what you do it on. It's their equivalent of a new framework.
The voiceovers part was a "what if". It would be great to have that freedom of choice but the question would be whether or not the community is mature enough to handle it. One thing as far as sound goes I think would be stellar would be cusomized background music. Not that I dislike champions choice of music but (its a bit....90s superman drama scene-ish).
What I was trying to get across about the whole quest text and voiceovers etc, is the fact that players never pay attention to the wall format. There's tons of ways to deliver a story, drop the wall of text and force the player to pay attention. Thought bubbles, chat bubbles, we already have those, its just a matter of control and how much those bubbles are limited to as far as dialog length. On top of that, cut scenes. I'm not talking about some CGI squaresoft magnificence. I'm talking about a pause, drop player control, fade player model, fade out, fade in to scene 1, pan to enemy 2, chat bubble, deliver line, play talk animation 1, and.... end scene, return to player position and map, fade in, continue mission. <
we already have these types of cutscenes in champions, and they're a major part of the game and how much attention we pay to it.
Replayability and player competition interaction are pretty much yin to yang. If you have that competitive aspect you get replayability regardless. But....what competitive games do you know of that drive themselves on player created content?
Because as far as Left 4 Dead, Half Life, source engine etc go, none of those games are competitive, and players are given enough tools to damn near make their own game. And in the case of a certain horror based game thats run on the HL1 engine the player actually did make their own game.
But I'm not asking for that kind of depth. We don't need people writing 30 pages and composites on running the champions online script engine etc etc. That tips over into developer territory and takes away from fun. If tony hawks skate park editor was over complicated to use, people would never build parks with it.
User interface, generalized camera control, and the basic steps of designing your world can be put into shortcuts. Translating the tools you use as a developer into a friendly user environment, makes things go ridiculously smooth, even when you're making content for your own game and not the players. But again, reminder, we're not talking about turning the game into a C++ course required time sink, we're talking about simple user control, we're talking about tony hawk pro skater 2 skate park design simple.
There's alot more that can be conceptualized from the entire thing but, the best way to understand what is possible out of it all, is to see what they've already done with Star Trek here http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/foundry/foundry-main
Watch the video, see what cryptic devs tried to do with the system, and hear what they had to say, then envision for a bit what could be done to this game utilizing the same Idea.
Its not a cure all, sure, you still don't have actual teeth in your mouth and they all fell out, but damn, those dentures sure do help to take the stress off.
Sorry still not, and will not be convinced and will await content.
As a level 40(x18) player i expect THINGS TO DO. Iv levelled enough alts to it being something embarassing rather than be proud about, im NOT proud to have this many level 40 characters at all.
To me content expansions need to be level 40 and nothing BUT level 40, not over, not under, but level fourty. Not level 4 and 0 or scaling, but 40.
As a level 40 character...all i have to do now is:
-Vikorins/Andrith lair (40 Monster island)
-Moreau's Lab (37 Monster island)
-Mandragalore [Bronze King] (40 Lemuria, yes Lemuria exists, try going there ffs)
-Therakiels Lair (40 Vibora Bay)
-Vipers Nest (36? Monster island)
-Nemcon (40 Unity)
I agree with you that a new zone and some quests will leave us bored after a short while. Thats why im explaining why im NOT INTERESTED in quest content, but INTERESTED in more End-Game dungeons.
Having only 6 challenging instances for 2 years (5 for 3 years), is not acceptable. Difficult, 5-man requiring new dungeons will cause not only end-game users to be happier, but will re-unite old supergroups and cause a huge flood of people waiting for content to return to the game. This means more stinking profits for these 'Gambling for children' game making sellouts.
Comments
:biggrin:
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
Though I found myself unable to do anything unless I'm full, so yeah. But when I do something, it's good work so I guess I'm fine with that
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...the ultimate Contrast Moe (or not).
I was reading. I was taking you seriously. Then I saw this.
This is what I do with every toon. Alerts are for mod and Q grind. Nothing more. IMO, anyone that uses them to level quicker has no right to complain about a lack of content when they're skipping over it by using alerts. This statement does not apply to any players that have already done everything in the game through leveling multiple toons.
I do agree with you to some extent. Having the foundry in CO would be a great addition to this game. It would allow players to write their own stories that they could share with friends which would help make them more invested in the game and would most likely prove to be a decent time sink for many players.
I do have a few disagreements with how you seem to think it would, or should, work however.
You mention custom voiceovers and cutscenes. This is something that I think would be extremely unlikely and is a bit of an unrealistic expectation that shouldn't be encouraged among players since it would raise the bar too high and would create possible disgruntlement and complaints among players because the devs didn't, or couldn't, live up to their expectations.
One thing that should be taken into account is where exactly would those voiceovers come from? Should the devs be expected to go and find people to do voiceovers for our content just because we think it would be neat to have someone actually talking in our missions or would be have to provide our own voiceovers and if that's the case, there's the matter of them having to make sure that what's made isn't offensive meaning they'd have to review all content made by players.
This doesn't even consider the amount of memory it would take to store all these new player made missions if we were able to make our own cutscenes complete with voiceovers.
What you've said in this thread leaves the impression that you want the ability to make highly detailed missions that equal, or possibly even surpass, the amount of depth that can be found in developer made content but, you also seem to want it to be possible to make this user generated content quickly with next to no fuss or worrying about details. To me, the two wants seem to be exclusive of each other.
I also don't think that adding the foundry would be a magical cure all for CO. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but, it seems to me that you think it would be and while I think it would be a great addition to this game, I don't think it would come anywhere near accomplishing what you think it will. I'd have to look back to double check but, I think a couple of the games you pointed at as examples are ones where players are pitted against each other. The thing that has to be kept in mind when looking at games like that is that what would be called the content isn't what the devs and other players produce. It's the player themselves. The sitation on those games is reversed from the one in CO. Maps and other products of that nature aren't what it is you're doing in those games. You're not trying to beat the map. You're trying to beat the players. The map is just what you do it on. It's their equivalent of a new framework.
The voiceovers part was a "what if". It would be great to have that freedom of choice but the question would be whether or not the community is mature enough to handle it. One thing as far as sound goes I think would be stellar would be cusomized background music. Not that I dislike champions choice of music but (its a bit....90s superman drama scene-ish).
What I was trying to get across about the whole quest text and voiceovers etc, is the fact that players never pay attention to the wall format. There's tons of ways to deliver a story, drop the wall of text and force the player to pay attention. Thought bubbles, chat bubbles, we already have those, its just a matter of control and how much those bubbles are limited to as far as dialog length. On top of that, cut scenes. I'm not talking about some CGI squaresoft magnificence. I'm talking about a pause, drop player control, fade player model, fade out, fade in to scene 1, pan to enemy 2, chat bubble, deliver line, play talk animation 1, and.... end scene, return to player position and map, fade in, continue mission. <
we already have these types of cutscenes in champions, and they're a major part of the game and how much attention we pay to it.
Replayability and player competition interaction are pretty much yin to yang. If you have that competitive aspect you get replayability regardless. But....what competitive games do you know of that drive themselves on player created content?
Because as far as Left 4 Dead, Half Life, source engine etc go, none of those games are competitive, and players are given enough tools to damn near make their own game. And in the case of a certain horror based game thats run on the HL1 engine the player actually did make their own game.
But I'm not asking for that kind of depth. We don't need people writing 30 pages and composites on running the champions online script engine etc etc. That tips over into developer territory and takes away from fun. If tony hawks skate park editor was over complicated to use, people would never build parks with it.
User interface, generalized camera control, and the basic steps of designing your world can be put into shortcuts. Translating the tools you use as a developer into a friendly user environment, makes things go ridiculously smooth, even when you're making content for your own game and not the players. But again, reminder, we're not talking about turning the game into a C++ course required time sink, we're talking about simple user control, we're talking about tony hawk pro skater 2 skate park design simple.
There's alot more that can be conceptualized from the entire thing but, the best way to understand what is possible out of it all, is to see what they've already done with Star Trek here http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/foundry/foundry-main
Watch the video, see what cryptic devs tried to do with the system, and hear what they had to say, then envision for a bit what could be done to this game utilizing the same Idea.
Its not a cure all, sure, you still don't have actual teeth in your mouth and they all fell out, but damn, those dentures sure do help to take the stress off.
As a level 40(x18) player i expect THINGS TO DO. Iv levelled enough alts to it being something embarassing rather than be proud about, im NOT proud to have this many level 40 characters at all.
To me content expansions need to be level 40 and nothing BUT level 40, not over, not under, but level fourty. Not level 4 and 0 or scaling, but 40.
As a level 40 character...all i have to do now is:
-Vikorins/Andrith lair (40 Monster island)
-Moreau's Lab (37 Monster island)
-Mandragalore [Bronze King] (40 Lemuria, yes Lemuria exists, try going there ffs)
-Therakiels Lair (40 Vibora Bay)
-Vipers Nest (36? Monster island)
-Nemcon (40 Unity)
I agree with you that a new zone and some quests will leave us bored after a short while. Thats why im explaining why im NOT INTERESTED in quest content, but INTERESTED in more End-Game dungeons.
Having only 6 challenging instances for 2 years (5 for 3 years), is not acceptable.
Difficult, 5-man requiring new dungeons will cause not only end-game users to be happier, but will re-unite old supergroups and cause a huge flood of people waiting for content to return to the game. This means more stinking profits for these 'Gambling for children' game making sellouts.