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Prototype vehicle BUYBACK
mensar
Posts: 281 Arc User
Given the fact that you changed the prototype vehicles after we agreed upon a price for certain goods (in this case, the prototypes as they were before the new vehicle update) which indicates a certain type of fraud (you know what kind, PWE) of intellectual property.
Maybe it would appease most of the people that DIDN'T go to the PTS and see what a lump of crap their vehicle is turning into when they start posting here in about an hour, if you instituted some kind of vehicle turn-in for high-rank mods for the current vehicle set.
Or even a zen-refund (which would be prudent considering you defaulted on the terms of the purchase agreement for the microtransaction) would be good.
Or an even-trade for one of the new vehicles (best option here IMHO).
YOu really need to do SOMETHING. Even give us the ability to turn our old prototypes in for something else. Q or something. They are worthless now to us. And represent 1500 zen (each) that we wasted in good faith on a purchase that you represented as one thing, but then changed after the fact.
I'm not saying you have to kiss up and make everything even-steven. But you need to make a concession, and it needs to be soon.
You screwed up, fix it.
I'm probably one of your BIGGEST supporters, and not just financially. But I have to cry a big fat FOUL on this one.
Maybe it would appease most of the people that DIDN'T go to the PTS and see what a lump of crap their vehicle is turning into when they start posting here in about an hour, if you instituted some kind of vehicle turn-in for high-rank mods for the current vehicle set.
Or even a zen-refund (which would be prudent considering you defaulted on the terms of the purchase agreement for the microtransaction) would be good.
Or an even-trade for one of the new vehicles (best option here IMHO).
YOu really need to do SOMETHING. Even give us the ability to turn our old prototypes in for something else. Q or something. They are worthless now to us. And represent 1500 zen (each) that we wasted in good faith on a purchase that you represented as one thing, but then changed after the fact.
I'm not saying you have to kiss up and make everything even-steven. But you need to make a concession, and it needs to be soon.
You screwed up, fix it.
I'm probably one of your BIGGEST supporters, and not just financially. But I have to cry a big fat FOUL on this one.
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Post edited by mensar on
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As I've said before, I don't know what other industry could get away with this kind of thing without class-action lawsuits.
But aside from that, I am just really amazed at the shortsightedness of alienating your best customers with this kind of bait-and-switch to try to grab a few more bucks.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Money. Not Zen.
It represents $15, each, that I would not have otherwise given Cryptic or PWE.
They set up a vendor with 3 missions.. each one pertains to a certain jet and has variable rewards... the mission goal? Return with that type of jet in your inventory.
For example the vendor would list the following choices:
300,000 questionite
Token for a new vehicle
a box with 150 R6 mods for the new vehicles
If there's a way (I don't think there is): 1500 zen or 16 keys?
Those types of rewards seem ... somewhat agreeable.
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I do have some ATs I'd like to buy in case I make the radical decision to stop subbing... >_>
The speed nerf is because it causes server stability issues when too many people travle too fast. They tried to give you something extra but had to tone it back because of technical issues. That makes them the bad guy?
Prototype Jets are still the most powerful vehicle. In other words your still getting something extra (fire power).
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Nope. I want a refund, or the original back.
Why? Because I bought the original for 2 reasons - Speed, and potential reward for "early adopters."
The speed has been taken away. Replacing it with a different vehicle that still doesn't go as fast, and simply never will, makes reason one meaningless.
Potential reward for early adopters reinforced reason one. If we take the early adopter reward as recieved (moar powaz!! which are redundant and useless, that's not a reward, thats what I paid for, but that's besides the point) then I "lose" the reward by losing the jet. If we take the early adopter reward as not recieved, which is fine since it was always a tentative "maybe," bordering on "no," well then I've just been screwed twice - no jet I paid for, and didn't even get the reward.
The difference should be pretty obvious.
This is a highly promoted item that was sold a la cart for a significant amount of money (compared to other items).
Many people bought the item for the travel speed only. Cryptic retroactively removed the sole reason for having the item.
Mistakes happen, but the burden for rectifying the mistake should lie with Cryptic, not the customer. There is nothing unreasonable about wanting to reverse a purchase when the item is intentionally changed to no longer have its original value.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Because these are vehicles. They are a mode of transportation. They traveled, and they traveled at a certain speed. It was understood that they were prototypes that would likely not be stacked up against the final product, but we were convinced to buy an inferior product regardless, and then had that already inferior product taken away from us.
And yes, it makes them the bad guys because the server stability issue is not new. It's the same bull**** they pulled back at launch, the difference being we didn't buy Flight or Super Speed based on coaxing from Cryptic for Real Money.
The should have already known "the server can't handle it" and should have adjusted accordingly or not misled people, particularly when the playerbase was most impressed by, and repeatedly commented on the advanced speed.
edit to add: the "enhanced firepower?" Also bull****, since the multiple powers are made redundant and useless by the maintained AoE, just like in every other powerset in this game. And those powers? Will likely not measure up to the final Weapon Mods released, which the prototypes will not have access to. And all that is ignoring the fact that "enhanced firepower" is not why some people bought them.
It's not just speed.. you lost range (cut in half) you lost firepower (all Mark 1 and non-exchangable) you lost speed, you lost flexibility.
In a nut shell, it's NOT THE ITEM WE PAID FOR.
I don't want them to break the servers with an item that doesn't work well with their current set-up.
But they need to make good on our investment.
ANd yes, that's fraud
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Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
So much this. They have the gall to even urge us to buy the prototypes while they were simultaneously working to nerf them to the ground. The reward? You get to pay more money and still not get them anywhere close to their original functionality.
So grats Cryptic, you suckered me into actually buying 2 prototypes. Enjoy the money, you won't be getting more from me anytime soon.
Except the drop ones are bound. The paid ones are not. It's still a different product.
So tell me, in the next patch will you then nerf the vehicles you are selling now?
Wow , what a good business model.
Otto says....
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
The packaging look does not make the item inside different unless their names are different.
And I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't get us a proper reward, because I actually DO want them to give us one that is actually worth it. If I was able to exchange my vehicles for 200 Drifter salvage a piece I would prefer that over getting my vehicles' wings clipped. With the salvage I can make the purchase for that vehicle with all the mod slots.
It makes them the bad guy because they put something in game that caused server instability, but now we can get almost the same speed if we cough up some more cash to get the speed mods. Why not just do away the mods and let us have the non-server crashing speed?
Stop spamming and re-posting this thread all over the forums.
We get it....:rolleyes:
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
This. Is. Not. The. Product. I. Paid. For.
At no time was there any warning on the ship as a device or in the Zen store that this product might be changed at any time.
How do you SPAM in a forum exactly? (rhetorical question, you can't)
And this issue would be best contained in a few threads rather than overflowing everywhere.. wouldn't that be .. worse?
Yes, that one wasn't rhetoric. You know the answer though.
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Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
Yeah.. it's different if we FOUND an item in the course of the game and they changed it. That's typical.
This item we actually PAID for. That very specific item. We saw people using it and thought, wow, that's the item for me! And bought it. There was no disclaimer or warning AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE (as this is NOT contained within the normal game operating environment) with real money... saying hey, we're going to change, delete or modify this item without your consent.
So that particular transaction was binding for that particular item.
Now that item is gone. The name hasn't changed on this new item, but the bottom line is.. it's not the one we paid for. Most of us would agree the new item isn't worth 500zen, much less 1500.
But that's irrelevant.. the item we purchased is gone and we are going to ask for the money we paid for that item be refunded. Or some restitution needs to be made.
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Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
If I can't get my original vehicle back I'd settle for an exchange code/coupon that allows me to redeem my prototype for a Mark II model or maybe 1,250 Z credit toward a trade-in.
Please make this right and don't burn your customers.
I'd suggest making them happy rather than finding out. It would be cheaper.
No, but the difference in behaviour does. One is bound. One is not bound. One can be traded to friends, one can not.
The thing is, a TOS, while powerful, does not supplant or supercede law.
"You will not break the law while playing this game or you will no longer be allowed to play," is TOS enforceable.
"We withold the right to sell you something and then take it away unexpectedly with no consideration (legal term, not sentiment) in disregard of consumer laws," is not TOS enforceable.
All the time/effort/money that goes into investing into a jet has lost a great deal of value. As far as I'm told, the ranges have been severely limited, further degrading their value.
I don't expect them to offer a buyback - considering how unhelpful support is when Cryptic/PWE is in error at the cost of the consumer, compensating their customers to show they appreciate their business seems a completely foreign concept.
I'm getting the feeling this decision (the focus on vehicles as a whole) may very well be the straw that broke the camel's back.
What makes it different for the vehicles?
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I think the main difference is the relative scope of the nerf. If you purchased an AT, and it was changed in such a way as to negate its primary purpose, like the Behemoth AT was no longer viable as a tank, you would be right to expect some kind of compensation. Or if they suddenly starting selling a Behemoth II for less that was in many ways superior to the Behemoth you had just purchased.
When a power is nerfed, we expect and normally receive retcons which allow us to reverse a choice. This is a similar request.
I don't really think a legal argument about the TOS is particularly relevant. No one is going to sue for $15 or $30. It's a question of what's right and whether or not screwing over your paying customers is good business, as well as what type of reputation Cryptic/PWE wants to have going forward.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
And generally those steamroll a company though. That's a last resort.
Here is some info for those interested in recompense:
PWE Business Contact Information
Customer Service URL: http://www.perfectworld.com
Customer Service Email:
customerservice@perfectworldinc.com
Customer Service Phone:
888-344-4478
But, all in due time and one step at a time. We can't expect them to know what's going on in their own forums or with the people in their own game.. can we?
This message brought to you by the superhero:
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All lore and event perks done, check.
All 1K mob perks done, check.
All nemesis mob perks done, check.
Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
Anyone else feel like PWE suddenly just rammed a large and spiked foreign object . . . ama refrain from continuing the statement, but that's how it feels and how angry this game has finally made me.
This game has so many awesome things and the potential to do even greater things and yet all they seem to focus on is how to further drive it to the ground.
Oh, never expect any more money from me.
Assumption is the mother of all mistakes!!!
Cryptic/PWE can die in a fire for all I care. I've been screwed over far too many times. They've taken my money, my dignity, and pretty soon my firstborn.
I will purge the world of the Evil known as Cryptic/PWE
@Scrizz :biggrin:
Been a while since we've rehashed that debate...
:rolleyes:
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Yes, because having a vehicle in a game go slightly slower is comparable to being analy sodomized with a foreign object in real life.:rolleyes:
Drama queen much?
Don't get me wrong, i don't like the direction this game is going in either, but overdramatizing every thing takes all the credibility out of an otherwise valid argument and makes it harder to tell the real issues from the B.S.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I spoke with someone in PWE.
The basics are:
They are checking into it.
I passed on how they were nerfed: Range, speed, only 2 slots, name changed, booster nerfed, all mark 1 weapon powers that can't be changed out, etc.
I also passed on the suggestion to have a vendor with 3 missions (one for each type of jet) where the objective was to return and speak to him with that jet in your inventory and the mission REWARD was several items that would be an alternative to keeping the jet if you didn't want it or, if you're like me, you just want to offload it because you have several that nobody will ever want now.
I also passed on, as passionately as I could while still remaining professional, the fact that people are feeling as though they have been basically screwed by PWE with this update.
Combine that with the neverending queue on the billing phone number from paypal and the fact that nobody has addressed anything yet officially.. and people get a little nervous.
Anyway.. just thought I'd throw that update out there. They are listening, it's a matter of giving them a fair amount of time to take action in now.
This message brought to you by the superhero:
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All 1K mob perks done, check.
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Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
Mobile phone industry for one.
*ba-dum-tish*
Drama queen much?
Don't get me wrong, i don't like the direction this game is going in either, but overdramatizing every thing takes all the credibility out of an otherwise valid argument and makes it harder to tell the real issues from the B.S.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly why I placed the disclaimer, coz I was angry and ranting as I stated. Am now calm and just plain disappointed w/ how they keep messing stuff up.
The part about not getting anymore money is true though. Am tried of supporting a game that keeps disappointing me.
Assumption is the mother of all mistakes!!!
same. :mad:
Looks like They've banned the OP.
Yes, they banned a LTSer that's been here since beta and has given them copious amounts of money.
Looks like this company likes screwing over their players big time.
@Scrizz :biggrin:
However I put my support down here, because this is clearly not how a game developer should treat their customers. Those jets were damned expensive, the most expensive item at that time (beside Freeform slot). And now everyone who invested that money is stuck with a majorly inferior version than the one they paid for? Way to go Cryptic.
I am kind of happy that I have a lifetime subscription and don't pay a monthly fee anymore. This way I never-ever have to give you money again. When I want Zen, I will just farm Questionite. Takes longer, but at least I don't have to feel dirty for supporting such a bunch of hoodlums anymore.
Please Cryptic, show at least -a little- goodwill and arrange some form of compensation for these people, who are rightfully angry at you.
Peace out.
@Ysale ingame. I do RP and stuff!
You own nothing and they have the the right to change things as they wish.
They have the right to make patches. Any content that is changed is considered a patch.
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
so how much are they paying you? :rolleyes:
@Scrizz :biggrin:
Personally, I'd take the Zen. This is surely the best definition of "bait and switch" that I can find.
If the OP were banned, it would display as such under their name on the forums, including all posts regardless of when they were made...
I don't see "Banned" under the OP's name, so where did you get your information?
Pretty harsh words if you're wrong...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
I agree with everything you say here except for the part about it being fraud. There was a disclaimer that you agreed to before you ever purchased the vehicle. It stated that the contents of the game were subject to change with or without notice at Cryptic's discretion. What has been done here is not fraud....its douchebaggery.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
In a small claims court Cryptic and or PWI will be required to send a representitive that is an OFFICER of the company to the court to represent them (California courts are very specific that Lawyers DO NOT get to represent clients on small claims. Failure to appear results in an automatic decision for the plaintiff (assuming the plaintiff shows up.) You will recieve the award (the amount of the claim plus any court fee paid for a summons to court etc) if you win (even in the matter of a failure to appear) and Cryptic will recieve the bill from the court which if they fail to pay on could and will result in a contempt of court charge and could even result if a baliff showing up at Cryptic studios to take some company officers to jail..
If your seriously upset, line up your P's and Q's, cros your T's, and dot your I's.. The burden of proof is on you, (civil court remember?) and you must show physical evidence. And bring proof of a payment to cryptic/PWI with you (a bank card statement works just fine.. if you are useing paypal, then a print out of your pay pall charges is considered acceptable Talk to your bank, they can actually help you bring the corrct evidence with you). As for the spcific matter of the virtual item, screen shots of before and after ARE acceptable evidence.. Virtual property has not been proven to be exempt under California law consumer laws as of yet, and please be aware that you cannot sign away your consumer rights, so any such wording in a "user agreement" cryptic trots out will most likely just irritate the Judge at them. Small Claims court Judges are renown with thier opinion of business entities that use language in customer agreement that would tend to result in the customer waiving any rights and protections under the law, and are quite aware that most "End Use Licence Agreements" are worth about as much as the paper they ARE NOT printed on" You must be clear to the court for what your seeking as an award from the court. In this sort of matter.. you want your money back! Don't concern yourself with the morality (if any) of Cryptics business practices. In this particular matter you want to get Cryptic where its going to hurt the most.. in the wallet. To paraphrase.. Grab them by the wallet and thier hearts and minds WILL follow. You will be wanting to ask the court for a return of the money you spent, plus court costs and punitive damages at the DESCRETION OF THE COURT.
(really important.. leave the court to punish them..you just want your money back and to be compensated on your court costs and filing fees. If the Judge feels that punitive damages are warrented the Judge will likely ask your opinion of how much...Don't be greedy.)
All you have to do to win is convince a judge that the product was misrepresented or you did not recieve what you were led to belive you were paying for. Thats it. Thats all you have to do. All cryptic is going to be alowed to do is to remove the offending item from your accont. Purchasing a "Game Currency" to then purchase a virtual product does NOT shelter Cryptic or PWI from consumer protected law.
This is not criminal law..its civil law.. and pretty much a thing is legal if not illegal under specific laws untill it is challanged.
But really.. If you want to get thier attention at the corporate level, take 'em to court. At this point I strongly suspect Cryptic studio's could use the lesson. Hell, they could use a good spanking. This is the only game studio I know of in the industry that pulls this sort of thing on a pretty regular basis. Considering how easy it is to gather a clear burden of proof in this against cryptic it is rather unlikely that cryptic is going to do anything other then conceed the case. Further more under california law if cryptic in ANY way shape or form retailiates against you as a customer for your court action (such as banning your account, or no longer permitting you to purchase zen or make c-store transaction) they will have violated criminal laws at that point and officers of cryptic can go to jail for that.
Company's have been locked out of thier own places of business for retaliatory practices here in the old CA if the court determines it is an ongoing purpousfull activity. Retaliatory action by a business entity are not considered a crime against person but a crime against the state and is treated very very seriously. The court investigates matters of business retaliation agaistt customers after a law suit as it is I belive also considered a contempt of court matter. I've attended dozens of civil trial and seen Judges in civil suits again a again warn representitives of business entity that any such action will be delt with most harshly.
You really want to stop Cryptic from pulling stuff like this.. Take 'em to court. By your self your just one little guy.. Get the court involved and suddenly your not one little guy (or gal) any more.. you suddenly turn into "The Will Of The People" with the entire judicial and criminal justice system of the state behind you.
Just a bit of an F.Y.I.
A note for the record.. there is no mention in this post of any specific persons employed by or officers of Cryptic Studio's or PWI, and in no ways does this post constitute a violation of agreement of use for the Cryptic studio's or PWI forums.
And yea,, I am a nasty old so and so...And I really hate seeing this sort of thing happen to consumers.. Makes me want to talk to some ambulance chasers I know.. Thos are the types of lawyers that go after then with a fraudulent business practices class action suit.. and make the pony up a list under court order of all customers that made purchases of a specific item. In such a matter it would be a regular court matter, and lawyers for cryptic would need to show up. Furthermore.. Cryptic would be forced to provide all the evidence against it's self (funny how much the thought of that makes me want to smile) once the plantiff attorney provided sufficient proof that grounds for a sopena of records was warrented. I think I would want to be in court the day the Judge hands down the decion because 1. I absolutly know which company officers would be required to be present to hear the decision, and more importantly 2. Cryptic would loose the case and I do want to hear the judge LECTURE the company officers..
anyway.. if your really that upset.. take the bums to court! Cryptic will not only have to pay you back your money and any court costs, but might even get a court order to correct thier practices. I'd really love to see a few hundred claims filed aginst Cryptic studios herein Alameda county. About the 5th case or so being heard to court would look at the cryptic company rep and likely tell him.. "I'm getting tired of looking at you -turns to the plaintiff- Are you seeking any punitive damages in this matter? yes? How much? very good Decision for plaintiff. *WHAM* next case. (Small claims court judge get a lot of lee way in how to handle matters before them. Think Judge Judy working a 40 hour week, with at least 20 to 40 cases per day to process, and still make the back 9 at the golf course after work)
SO, you all know more then you came in with! *grin* my work is done!
When they first came out, they were still priced much higher than other become devices or ATs. That's truer now.
I came to CO to play a superhero - not a superhero's jet. I'm sorry if you are upset that your jet isn't as fast or doesn't shoot as far as it used to, but you haven't lost it and in fact gained some mod slots for it...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Wow thats some informative stuff right there and does suggest people upset by this may have a lot more power than they'd believe. And here was i going to suggest buying shares in the company as a way of getting them to be nicer to the players.
People often forget that the law is there for them. And forgetting that lets corporations take over these institutions which is bad for everyone. So use it or lose it folks.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?