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Takofane lockbox drop rates revealed! Working as intended?
magitek3
Posts: 150 Arc User
So, I got some boxes and keys on Live, and proceeded to repeatedly copy characters onto the Test server and move their boxes/keys into the shared stash until I had 1000 keys and boxes. I opened them all. Counting every single item would be an enormous pain in the butt, so I'm just going to give the numbers for the loot that's actually desirable.
2782 Drifter Salvage (100% chance)
You will get, on average, 2.78 Drifter Salvage for every box you open (2, 3, 5, or 10 each)
45 3-Slot Gears (granted via a stack of openable boxes rather than directly) (4.5% chance)
On average, you will need to open 22.2 boxes (spend $20-22) to receive a 3-slot gear.
19 Transforms (1.9% chance)
19 4-Slot Gears (again, as a stack of boxes)
On average, you will need open 52.6 boxes (spend $45-53) to get one of each.
Know these numbers before deciding to buy keys. Cryptic is effectively charging $50 for a $11.50 Become device, a 4-slot item that is barely on-par with the easily-available Silver Champs gear, and a bunch of garbage that you've probably got too many stacks of already. Oh, right, and a few salvage bits so that you can buy the new (and price-boosted) stuff they've put in the Drifter shop.
It seems like the drop rate for the good stuff is much lower than it should be, considering the price. Are these drop rates working as intended?
2782 Drifter Salvage (100% chance)
You will get, on average, 2.78 Drifter Salvage for every box you open (2, 3, 5, or 10 each)
45 3-Slot Gears (granted via a stack of openable boxes rather than directly) (4.5% chance)
On average, you will need to open 22.2 boxes (spend $20-22) to receive a 3-slot gear.
19 Transforms (1.9% chance)
19 4-Slot Gears (again, as a stack of boxes)
On average, you will need open 52.6 boxes (spend $45-53) to get one of each.
Know these numbers before deciding to buy keys. Cryptic is effectively charging $50 for a $11.50 Become device, a 4-slot item that is barely on-par with the easily-available Silver Champs gear, and a bunch of garbage that you've probably got too many stacks of already. Oh, right, and a few salvage bits so that you can buy the new (and price-boosted) stuff they've put in the Drifter shop.
It seems like the drop rate for the good stuff is much lower than it should be, considering the price. Are these drop rates working as intended?
Post edited by magitek3 on
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Actually depending on the item, it's better (somewhat). Take a closer look at what you got and compare.
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Good show sir!
Snark never dies.
2.78 salvage eh? Way to really increase the drop rate there dude, maybe you should change your handle to Gentleman Grinch. :eek:
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Until there's a better, cheaper way for Salvage, my credits stay in my sock.
Piece out.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
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This was awesome while it lasted
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Damn it, I hate greedy publishers. This crap helped ruin TF2 for me, and now it's reached Champions Online.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
At least you can get all the stuff in TF2 if you're patient and get lucky, or trade/craft...no ingame way to get keys yet.
No, you can get them in game by exchanging Questionite for Zen.
It's still a **** model designed around nickel and diming the player and ensuring that the in game economy is more inaccessible to those that don't pay real money. You can see this effect in the market as we speak, just look at the Q exchange rates at the moment. Of course, to make it worse, it's gotta be a gamble with bad odds.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
No **** Shermlock haha... but I didn't and the bags are opened now... so please please please
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This was awesome while it lasted
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But I've rewritten this post about three times now and I cannot for the life of me figure out where I was going with what I was going to say.
On the bright side though, the questionite exchange rate is so messed up that I can take the 200 Zen I have banked up and make an absolute killing
(does... does it make me sound like a supervillain when I italicize killing?)
Studio (D)raconis | Champions Blog
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Drop rate for drifters salvage seems similar to this one from regular grab bags - as pathetic as can be Craptic's management.
Average 2, almost 3 salvage per bag? Sorry, but obviously you guys lost your senses - 10 salvage per bag/box should be guaranteed, so person giving you money by purchasing your scam bag always get something with every purchase.
Also - scamming players with removing costumes and devices, then gating it behind not one, but two "layers" of RNG scam? You have no ethics or respect for your player base.
Sadly, this is no longer surprising for anyone. As a company, your reputation is for a long time nonexistent.
I certainly will not waste money at this RNG idiot tax. Stuff it, Craptic.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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1 in 20.
From what I've heard, all items in the new Drifter Device Bags have an equal chance of dropping (and it would be...odd if it didn't work that way). There's 40 new items, and you get 2 pulls from the RNG with each one.
And thanks for the work, magitek3. That had to take forever to do. Really sucks that the Drifter Token average is so painfully low. I WANT the new devices, but I don't want to pay $8 for each pair.
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Yes. Lockboxes are always designed to separate fools from their money.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Genuinely appreciated, ty ty ty!
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Or at least I would have, if I'd tried to do this on the Live server.
I would be willing to pay for certain devices, send me a PM in-game if you want. (note: only on these forums is my name messed up, in-game it's just @agentx5)
Also there was a friend from the collective who was looking to spend 100g to get some of the old, unconverted crafting materials. Possible even more than 100g. Namesake lore stuff.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I'm doing this on the Test server, not live. I
Still took him down with my lowly Silver Champs gear, so there's that.
Some of the gear was on the market, you could peek at it there.
Debatable, I got a [Demonic Flesh Graft] on my first try, and it is pretty sweet to have that as a device now and not taking up an equipment spot.
@OP, really nice to see some numbers, thank you.
What's debatable? That even at lv40 instead of the original lv46 the new mones are still the best drop in the game? Or that I got one on my first device box? Or something else I missed...
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This was awesome while it lasted
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I got three elixir and two pheromones, and decided to test them out. Looks like there's no mutual cooldowns for them. Using a second elixir resets the 5-minute duration, so you could conceivably chain them together for a nigh-permanent 200hp/second (for my level/stats). The pheromones are toggles and seem to simply stack.
Very interesting, indeed.
Studio (D)raconis | Champions Blog
Bluey's List of Things He Wants in Champions
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Cool, now don't stop till you get 5 of them hehe...
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THANK YOU FOR THE TEST AND YOUR TIME MAN!!! Now who would like to donate a dollar to the "Get Kroll 6 Mones Foundation"? We will do important charity work with your donations... only 4 more to go, be a part of history hehe.
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This was awesome while it lasted
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When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
1 25 R3 mods/1 hr XP boost/ 2 salvage
2 25 R4 mods/Favor of Champions/2 salvage
3 25 R4 mods/Favor of Champions/2 salvage
4 25 R5 mods/ 2 salvage
5 25 R3 mods/ Resource Boost/ 5 salvage
6 25 R3 mods/1 hr XP boost/2 salvage
7 25 R4 mods/Favor of Champions/ 2 salvage
8 25 R5 mods/ 2 salvage
9 25 R4 mods/Favor of Champions/ 2 salvage
10 25 R3 mods/1 hr XP boost/ 2 salvage
11 25 R3 mods/ Resource boost/ 3 salvage
12 25 R3 mods/1 hr XP boost/ 2 salvage
13 25 R5 mods/ 2 salvage
14 25 R5 mods/ 5 salvage
15 25 R3 mods/ Resource boost/ 2 salvage
16 25 R3 mods/ Resource boost/ 10 salvage
17 25 R5 mods/2 salvage
18 25 R4 mods/ 1 hr XP boost/ 2 salvage
19 25 R3 mods/ 1 hr XP boost/ 3 salvage
20 25 R5 mods/ 2 salvage
Added up to 56 salvage. So, I purchased a Legacy device kit. It contained 1 Alien Crystal and 1 Mutagenic Infection.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
As many have stated, thank you very much for the effort of getting these numbers together.
It sucks when a game developer wants to base their primary source of revenue around gambling for digital goods, but can't even be bothered to post the odds to get the stuff people are gambling for.
PS: I've always held Cryptic as a shining example of what to do right as far as cash shops are concerned in every other game forum I go--right up to about a week or two ago when I learned that they had added these lockboxes to the game (and learned it from another poster in TSW's forum after I defended Cryptic from one of the typical attacks that comes up in other game boards). I've even defend the idea of so called "pay-to-win" on the basis that I don't have an issue with people paying to get the best loot available rather than grind for it if that is what they choose to do with their money--so long as they sell for a reasonable price and that there are viable ways to get them in-game. But not like this and I will defend Cryptic never again.
Getting a specific item you want from a shop is fine by me. But having to blow potenially $45+ GAMBLING to see IF you get the item you want is something I do NOT and will not support. I have less and less faith every day on this company.
/rageoff
What saddens me is that Trail Turtle in one post, I think in response to one of arikami's actually, said that they considered the nighthawk bags a test of non-random. Clearly missing the fact that grab bags are still random. Buying a costume set is non-random. Buying a become device is non-random. Buying a grab bag that may or may not have costumes and becomes is random. Whether you buy the bag or buy the key it is still random. I am worried that the devs and even Trail Turtle didn't understand this simple difference.
I have and will buy costumes and I have and will buy devices. I am not buying keys. And I am not buying random grab bags.
Just did a series of 100 Tako boxes myself on the PTS with the following results:
Drifter salvage - 236
Crafting skill ups - 8
Recovery 4-pack - 1
XP boost - 22
Team XP boost - 17
Resource boost - 15
25 x lvl 3 mods - 46
25 x lvl 4 mods - 15
25 x lvl 5 mods - 17
5 x lvl 6 mods - 16
5 x lvl 7 mods - 4 (all from boxes)
Mercenary gear - 3
Legion gear - 6 (from 3 blue boxes and one purple box)
Become device - Ghost x2, Mummy x1, Doomlord x1
As expected, the 10-box runs were quite variable, with a couple awarding only lvl 3 mods and some resource boosters and one run awarding one purple gear box, two become devices (one Doomlord) and two green gear boxes.
RNG seems to be working as intended on PTS.
Honestly, for as much as I disliked them, CoH's super packs were the right way to do stuff like this.
If you want them. BUY THEM. Or have some equivalent way of getting them via points for vets/golds/whatever. But dropping them as random-crap salvage and then making people buy keys to open them? Dirty pool old man.
Bad!
DUMB!
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
The difference with TF2 though is that they quickly introduced ways to get things that you wanted from MannCo crates from other players, so you could figure something out. And before that, they didn't really have a system in place for things like this.
Whereas in CO, there was already an in-place system, the Z-Store. That system is still there to be experienced by new players. As the novelty wears off, they'll use the Z-Store more, and start asking difficult questions - like why the stuff in lockboxes can't be obtained in any other ways.
This, I think, will lead to some kind of exclusivity system. Where we have stuff in lockboxes for a month, then it turns up on the store a month later at a premium.
1) gambling items in CO will continue to be offered. Why? Because people look at the odds, and say, "I could get lucky!"
2) the devs will figure out a way to make it so lock-boxes or keys will not be transferred to the PTS.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Number one is a given. Number two is extremely likely.
Both are unfortunate.
25 rank 3 mods plus xp boost : 123 (12.3%)
25 rank 3 mods plus resource boost : 103 (10.3%)
25 rank 3 mods plus grp xp buff : 111 (11.1%)
25 rank 3 mods plus skillup : 104 (10.4%)
25 rank 4 mods plus xp boost : 66 (6.6%)
25 rank 4 mods plus resource boost : 67 (6.7%)
25 rank 4 mods plus grp xp buff : 60 (6%)
25 rank 4 mods plus skillup : 59 (5.9%)
25 rank 5 mods : 161 (16.1%)
5 rank 6 mods : 99 (9.9%)
green lockbox : 32 (3.2%)
blue lockbox + become (ghost/frank/mummy) : 12 (1.2%)
purple lockbox plus become (doomlord) : 3 (0.3%)
green box gave
5 rank 6 mods plus mercenery gear : 21
5 rank 7 mods plus mercenary gear : 11
blue box gave
5 rank 6 mods plus legion gear : 7
5 rank 7 mods plus legion gear : 5
purple boxes all gave 5 rank 7 mods plus 3 pieces of legion gear
conclusions
47 total gear boxes (4.7%)
15 total becomes (1.5%)
21 total pieces of legion gear (2.1%)
2800 total salvage (2.8 per cache average)
Again. I don't mind that stuff like this gets offered.
But when you're essentially dropping items in game and THEN telling people they can't use them until they pay real money?
That's cowpatties right there.
Drop salvage in the game should never be "pay real money to actually use" crap.
If people want to pay real money for grab bags of stuff, put the grab bags in the cash shop.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
The regular xp boosts are transferable/tradeable - only the favor of the champions xp boost is bound.
Has there been any reasoning as to why this is?
When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber