The thinly-veiled hostility and alligator tears of many posts in this thread do not make me want to join your community. Maybe I should reconsider wasting my time and bandwidth.
The thinly-veiled hostility and alligator tears of many posts in this thread do not make me want to join your community. Maybe I should reconsider wasting my time and bandwidth.
I think you're reading too much into it, particularly since the majority of the CO playerbase is CoX alumni, and many forumites still play CoX to this day.
Don't confuse vitriol against bad company decisions made by NCSoft for ill will towards CoX or Paragon.
The thinly-veiled hostility and alligator tears of many posts in this thread do not make me want to join your community. Maybe I should reconsider wasting my time and bandwidth.
Way to exaggerate.........where did that come from?
The thinly-veiled hostility and alligator tears of many posts in this thread do not make me want to join your community. Maybe I should reconsider wasting my time and bandwidth.
Think you are trying to read way too far into things.
The thinly-veiled hostility and alligator tears of many posts in this thread do not make me want to join your community. Maybe I should reconsider wasting my time and bandwidth.
The snarky self-entitled attitude in your posts makes me think we'd be better off without you.
The thinly-veiled hostility and alligator tears of many posts in this thread do not make me want to join your community. Maybe I should reconsider wasting my time and bandwidth.
I think you will find that would be an ecumenical matter!
Also shut up.
Seriously 90% of us play CoX as well . I don't take kindly to getting called a self harmer
You do know Cryptic made both games?
Did I tell you to shut up...yes.. yes I did.. well that's working out grand
Damnit wheres my mojito >_>
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
As a COH transplant, I find the title of this thread sort of annoying and contrary to the message that the CO community seems to be putting forth as a whole. Perhaps the thread title alone is inspiring some hostile posters to come in with pitch forks.. Just a thought.
As a COH transplant, I find the title of this thread sort of annoying and contrary to the message that the CO community seems to be putting forth as a whole. Perhaps the thread title alone is inspiring some hostile posters to come in with pitch forks.. Just a thought.
THIS TIMES 9000 ^^
One head got it in one. Even though I hang about CO more these days being a bit of a CoX vet the title pissed me off A LOT!
But thankfully because most of us here are CoX players also the thread became something else.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
kind of amusing as those keeping up with the save CoH movement will no that rather than take this as "matter closed, end of story," they're taking it as "we could be in trouble if we don't put a lid on this ASAP"
Hopefully a new game will take the place of COH. Like a tribute or something. if not, lets hope CO never dies.
No doubt, CO will have the same treatment in a year or so when Cryptic decides it wants to focus its efforts on the Southern Antarctic market and funnel CO players into their upcoming Midget Monsters And Mudcakes MMO. At that time, I would be extremely surprised if the OP wasn't one of the first to cry 'foul' and ask why people aren't offended that CO is being shut down so coldly. Or why other MMOs in the same very limited field of MMO gaming are dancing on the grave of CO before it's even dead.
We thought CoX would never die, as it was healthy and still growing as a world. Then one person decided it was a good idea to drop the axe on it and get it out of their sight. No doubt, CO will face the same fate as soon as Cryptic decides it isn't the sparkling jewel it once was. Enjoy CO while it lasts, but never forget that all gaming companies are heartless entities that view their creations as product, to be discarded as soon as possible to get a tax writeoff.
No doubt, CO will face the same fate as soon as Cryptic decides it isn't the sparkling jewel it once was.
Cryptic won't be the one making that decision, PWE will be. Just like it was NCSoft who decided to kill CoX.
To call CO a sparking jewel at this point... Well clearly you haven't been around for long if you think that's how PWE looks at CO. It's quite clear that PWE considers CO to be on par with a rented mule, and gives it a budget according that status.
There's little doubt that CO will shut down one day, but the fact that's it's lasted this long between Atari and PWE's lack of meaningful support says pretty clearly that PWE feels what ever money CO makes is enough to keep it running for the foreseeable future.
NCSoft on the other hand, has clearly demonstrated their willingness to kill games.
As the "OP", I would like to say that my post was made hastily within a few minutes of the original NCSoft decision being announced. I am a CO player, and was reporting the event on a CO forum, within the context of it being an important event that would affect CO.
There is no gloating here. I had nothing to do with the decision to shut down CoX and have no opinion as to whether it was a good business decision. I made several other posts discussing things we could do be welcoming and help the transition for disenfranchised CoX players.
Having said that, it is a freaking video game. Although I've been playing CO since closed beta, and I hope it never shuts down, if/when it does I will be disappointed and then move on to another video game or hobby. It certainly won't be the first time. And I likely won't judge an entire community based upon my perception of a single thread title.
CoX players--it's too bad about your game. I do hope you consider CO as a replacement and that you find the players here are generally helpful and welcoming.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Cryptic won't be the one making that decision, PWE will be. Just like it was NCSoft who decided to kill CoX.
To call CO a sparking jewel at this point... Well clearly you haven't been around for long if you think that's how PWE looks at CO. It's quite clear that PWE considers CO to be on par with a rented mule, and gives it a budget according that status.
There's little doubt that CO will shut down one day, but the fact that's it's lasted this long between Atari and PWE's lack of meaningful support says pretty clearly that PWE feels what ever money CO makes is enough to keep it running for the foreseeable future.
NCSoft on the other hand, has clearly demonstrated their willingness to kill games.
I dunno, your view seems bitter. We know that the CO team is expanding, regardless of how people want to read articles, and we know more development time and resources are being given to CO. So far, with all the moves, merger and updating back end stuff going on, it seems that Cryptic is now getting their feet back under them, and finally able to get back into working these updates.
They already told us that the updates wouldn't start getting larger until around the fall, and they also told us nothing major like a zone would happen this year.
No doubt, CO will have the same treatment in a year or so when Cryptic decides it wants to focus its efforts on the Southern Antarctic market and funnel CO players into their upcoming Midget Monsters And Mudcakes MMO. At that time, I would be extremely surprised if the OP wasn't one of the first to cry 'foul' and ask why people aren't offended that CO is being shut down so coldly. Or why other MMOs in the same very limited field of MMO gaming are dancing on the grave of CO before it's even dead.
We thought CoX would never die, as it was healthy and still growing as a world. Then one person decided it was a good idea to drop the axe on it and get it out of their sight. No doubt, CO will face the same fate as soon as Cryptic decides it isn't the sparkling jewel it once was. Enjoy CO while it lasts, but never forget that all gaming companies are heartless entities that view their creations as product, to be discarded as soon as possible to get a tax writeoff.
Makes you love Skyrim that fact doesnt it. Ya cant sunset mah Xbox
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Perhaps it sounded that way, but that wasn't my intention.
My point is that PWE has not exactly been throwing money hand over fist at CO, and yet it's still here. The same thing happened with Atari.
It would of been fairly easy I imagine for PWE to have closed down CO some time ago, if that's what they wanted to do. When they bought out CO and STO, they could of quite easily of shut down CO, in fact a number of us were afraid that might happen.
Since then CO has improved, but it's clear that of the 3 games, CO, STO and Neverwinter CO is the last one in line in terms of budget.
But even at that, PWE is apparently happy with how CO is doing, or else they would of closed it down already.
Perhaps it was the bitter tone of the post I replied to that carried over into my own post. Because clearly the person I was quoting has a chip on their shoulder over the whole thing, and seemed to be hoping that CO would be shut down as well.
We do?
I haven't seen any announcements about this. Can you provide a link?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
No inside info here, but I expect CO is pretty safe for the time being, particularly in light of CoX's unfortunate shutdown. Both Cryptic and Perfect World seem to be stable and doing relatively well.
The next big event which could have an impact will be the Neverwinter launch next year. If it does drastically worse than expectations, it could mean consolidations at Cryptic. Conversely, if the launch goes smoothly, perhaps some resources will be shifted back to CO. These are all just speculations.
These things are largely out of our control, aside from just supporting the game; offering positive feedback, welcoming new players, spending a little money on subs or content that offer value, etc.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Perhaps it was the bitter tone of the post I replied to that carried over into my own post. Because clearly the person I was quoting has a chip on their shoulder over the whole thing, and seemed to be hoping that CO would be shut down as well.
And that would be bad how? One less competitor, as the OP has stated.
It would be bad because then we couldn't play CO any longer.
It's not our fault that CoX is getting closed, so I fail to see any reason to be pissy with us. CoX getting closed is however a good thing for CO regardless of how we might feel about CoX being closed.
The topic title isn't exactly the best choice. But if you actually bother to read this thread the vast majority of us have been doing what we can to help the CoX people make a smooth transition to CO.
It would be bad because then we couldn't play CO any longer.
It's not our fault that CoX is getting closed, so I fail to see any reason to be pissy with us. CoX getting closed is however a good thing for CO regardless of how we might feel about CoX being closed.
The topic title isn't exactly the best choice. But if you actually bother to read this thread the vast majority of us have been doing what we can to help the CoX people make a smooth transition to CO.
I love it when people say "It's a good thing, as long as it's happening to someone else". Shows a good sense of judgement on the value of things. Unless of course, it does happen to you...in which case, suddenly, it isn't a good thing.
And I dont' know how you could say the title isn't the best choice when it seems pretty clear and to the point.
I love it when people say "It's a good thing, as long as it's happening to someone else".
Sometimes bad things happening is good for someone else. Surely you're not too simpleminded and/or childish to understand this basic truth. A company going out of business is generally good for it's competitors, it's not really that hard of a concept to understand.
No one here wanted CoX to be shut down, none of us wished harm on CoX. But many of us are also able to see that CoX shutting down can be a good thing for CO, because that means a larger playerbase and more money being devoted to improving the game. We have also done what we can as a whole to help welcome CoX players and make the transition as painless as possible.
Apparently however you're one of those people who are so bitter about it, that you want everyone else to suffer along with you. Well sorry but we won't do that, and wishing harm on others is hardly a good way to make friends.
We will continue to play CO and enjoy it, along with all the people leaving CoX and looking for a new home here. Given your attitude, you most likely won't be one of them and I'm pretty sure we won't miss you any.
I love it when people say "It's a good thing, as long as it's happening to someone else". Shows a good sense of judgement on the value of things. Unless of course, it does happen to you...in which case, suddenly, it isn't a good thing.
And I dont' know how you could say the title isn't the best choice when it seems pretty clear and to the point.
Life is often a zero-sum game. One party's win is often another party's loss.
When your team wins in sports, another team loses.
When you sell a stock price for again, a seller loses.
When your country wins a gold medal at the Olympics, other countries lose.
etc. etc.
You are apparently enlightened enough to feel everyone in the world's pain and understand that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore I'm sure you never look forward to anything good happening to anyone as long as it has a cost (which is pretty much always).
Congratulations, you have achieved Bodhisattva.
What is such an enlightened being doing playing video games?
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
>_> I dont want CoX, CO or DCUO to close down seriously there is only 3 super mmo's at the moment (Marvel doesnt count thats a D3 clone and it looks ****) soon there is only going to be 2 ..thats a bad day for the mmo world . A world over run with goblins , elves and all that type of ****
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
CoX shutting down isn't good for CO for several reasons.
CO isn't prepared to really leverage the situation. While population may bump a bit, bugs and other issues will probably mean CoX players will try one of the many many OTHER f2p games.
Having another, similar game is good for both competition and inspiration. A number of ideas developed in one game migrated to the other game, in its own particular way.
Lack of competition may breed complacency.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I don't particularly want CoX to shutdown, but it is, and there's nothing I can do about it.
And I do believe it is a net positive for CO; we've already seen a noticeable number of new players. I think Cryptic is trying to make the most of the situation, as seen by TrailTurtle's increased presence, all of the bug fixes in recent builds, and the various in-game events recently. I do that hope that they can do more.
We'll see what happens..
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
CoX shutting down isn't good for CO for several reasons.
CO isn't prepared to really leverage the situation. While population may bump a bit, bugs and other issues will probably mean CoX players will try one of the many many OTHER f2p games.
Having another, similar game is good for both competition and inspiration. A number of ideas developed in one game migrated to the other game, in its own particular way.
Lack of competition may breed complacency.
Just like Madden.
Once EA bought out the comp. Madden has been a joke. Since 2005 really.
Without competition from other hero mmo's the same is sure to happen here.
After 2005 i never bought another madden. Some of my pals, yeah.
But if you stay they same or do minimal upgrades, people notice.
They leave.
CoX shutting down isn't good for CO for several reasons.
CO isn't prepared to really leverage the situation. While population may bump a bit, bugs and other issues will probably mean CoX players will try one of the many many OTHER f2p games.
Having another, similar game is good for both competition and inspiration. A number of ideas developed in one game migrated to the other game, in its own particular way.
Lack of competition may breed complacency.
As you pointed out by predicting that former COX players might go to other F2P games if confronted by bugs and other issues, CO does still have competition.
Gamers have finite amounts of time and money to invest in a game. Cryptic is competing with many other games for a slice of the pie.
Sure, there's general competition. But CO and CoH had a unique relationship in that the games are similar in various respects and goals, so they had a lot more possible productive inspiration and competition.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
As you pointed out by predicting that former COX players might go to other F2P games if confronted by bugs and other issues, CO does still have competition.
Gamers have finite amounts of time and money to invest in a game. Cryptic is competing with many other games for a slice of the pie.
I'm just glad that I'm able to keep CO and The Secret World both.
Sure, there's general competition. But CO and CoH had a unique relationship in that the games are similar in various respects and goals, so they had a lot more possible productive inspiration and competition.
As much as some people might say BLASPHEMY BURN THE WITCH ! >:C
CO is Cryptics follow up to CoH. Thats one of the reasons I play CO* . It was a good partner for CoX. When one got a bit stale I'd play the other for a bit and vice versa.
*unfortunate for me Ima on my hols with my crappy netbook at the mo and the only mmo it can play is that **** one based off an average late 90's RTS. So dont go wrecking the place to much I aint cleaning up when I get back :O
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Just like Madden.
Once EA bought out the comp. Madden has been a joke. Since 2005 really.
Without competition from other hero mmo's the same is sure to happen here.
After 2005 i never bought another madden. Some of my pals, yeah.
But if you stay they same or do minimal upgrades, people notice.
They leave.
The thing is, Madden still sells a ton of copies.
There's a difference between being competition for creativity, and being competition financially.
For one thing, nobody gives a **** about creativity.
For another, being creative doesn't sell your product.
Most people don't care about creativity, and pretty much everything new is treated to a healthy dose of "they changed it so it sucks" regardless of the quality or creativity of a product.
If there's novelty, that's a different story, but creativity generally means jack to the mass market.
Taking CO in particular, look at our dumbization throughout the many years (heh). We went from a completely open system that let you combine powers endlessly and an amazing costume creator to a set of ATs because freeform was too daunting, and a "streamlined" character customization system so as not to scare the newbs, and, allegedly, are doing better. I know, correlation, not causation, But it's hard to ignore that the vast majority of products that sell well are not creative, unique or anything of the like, but rather rehashes of previously decently recieved products with a slight tweak, or that the majority of ****ing everything is some kind of sequel or spinoff often reaching double digits in a franchise if not for reboots or naming schemes.
People didn't prefer CoX over CO for it's creativity. That wasn't really said to be a boon in it's favor, nor has it been said of WoW or any of the other big MMOs, and for the most part they all play exactly the same.
My point is that I love creativity and we need more of it and it's a sad day that CoX won't be around to light a fire under COs ****, but people aren't flocking over from Paragon because we got freeform, power replacers, and a nemesis system.
They're coming because their game is dying, and we're familiar. We're the Madden NFL 13 to their Madden NFL 2005.
We didn't win their hearts and wallets through the power of imagination.
Taking CO in particular, look at our dumbization throughout the many years (heh). We went from a completely open system that let you combine powers endlessly and an amazing costume creator to a set of ATs because freeform was too daunting, and a "streamlined" character customization system so as not to scare the newbs, and, allegedly, are doing better. I know, correlation, not causation, But it's hard to ignore that the vast majority of products that sell well are not creative, unique or anything of the like, but rather rehashes of previously decently recieved products with a slight tweak, or that the majority of ****ing everything is some kind of sequel or spinoff often reaching double digits in a franchise if not for reboots or naming schemes.
What the devs did wasn't so much "dumbing down" as much as it was "putting the psychotic patient through therapy so he can re-integrate it into society." An explanation of the reasoning behind why one heal scaled off one stat and another, similar, heal scaled off a different stat would boil down to "balance reasons."
That's not creative thinking. That's not a well thought out and executed system. That's barely even Calvin Ball.
What the devs did wasn't so much "dumbing down" as much as it was "putting the psychotic patient through therapy so he can re-integrate it into society." An explanation of the reasoning behind why one heal scaled off one stat and another, similar, heal scaled off a different stat would boil down to "balance reasons."
That's not creative thinking. That's not a well thought out and executed system. That's barely even Calvin Ball.
I agree Creativity does not come from Complex tools. Every new Outfit has set rules (Pants on bottom, shirt on chest, hat on head.) Going out of logical rules leads to more and more extremism. Ask yourself this "When was the last time you went to a Modern Art show and Understood every new Art?" True the Paintings and sculptures are creative expressions, but is it an explosion, Barf, or visualization of complex emotions?
Pairing Creativity with a Story based Game is complex in itself. Having to write and create arcs and dialog that fit every possible idea hard in itself. Then Making sure all the Powers, abilities, and skills Work and don't give to much of an advantage is even more complex (More so adding PVP). Rules are needed for such complexity and that reflected in the game systems. Add to this that many players are young and learning as they go (yes I know there are some kids out there that would blow my mind in their skills) but the over all masses won't understand to much complexity. This isn't lack of creativity, it's lack of skills.
I did came from CoX to CO because it's familiar. In the sense that CoX was a Cryptic Product BEFORE NcSoft. It has the same basic seed of creativity sure the product grew in different ways, but I accept those differences.
What brought me here and not that D.C. MMO is the Community. I know that many CoX players are migrating here. My Friends came here and so did I.
As for Creativity that was the main Fuel for CoX long run (budget cuts was it downfall). The Thrill of what new thing each issue would have. Sure we like familiar when we buy something, but we want CREATIVITY to keep things from being boring. It's the friends and community that keeps us playing MMOs. It's the Ying,Yang of desire.
Given I only have the time and funds for One MMO, I played CoX. But now that over I'm looking forward to what NEW and Inventive things this world has to offer.
I hope it is exciting because I was thinking of trying out Guild Wars 2. Like I said I only have time for one.
Ok. My point about madden is getting rid of the comp worked because, if you want to play football you have nowhere else to go! Madden was a better game when 2k football was around. They had to be. 2k was a far better game for a lower price. EA would have none of it, and bought exclusive rights with the N.F.L.
Fans of 2k football were up in arms, some went over to madden. Others like me never played football again. I think in CO, they will get a new influx of folks (for now) but the telling next few months will tell if they stay.
Many don't have a choice if they want a Super Hero game to play.
Much like that garbage called Madden. And if Cryptic doesn't step up their game with more than just alerts and toys people (vets and newbies) will leave.
Many don't have a choice if they want a Super Hero game to play.
The difference how ever is there are MMO's out there that while not superheroes, are still close enough to what people want that there's other options.
With Madden, if you wanted to play a football game, it's likely that Basketball, Baseball or Hockey wouldn't quite cut it.
But if you're a MMO fan, even if you can't play a superhero, there's enough non-fantasy MMO's out there that you do have other options.
Given I only have the time and funds for One MMO, I played CoX. But now that over I'm looking forward to what NEW and Inventive things this world has to offer.
Hope springs eternal, I guess, but the devs here have usually botched their implementations of the elements that set this game apart. Lemuria, while beautiful, was laggy with "hidden" mission doors (the UI would show the mission door, but not the entrance to the long, winding cave in which the door was found). The less said about the Nemesis system the better. The powers system was insane; the devs even had a habit of removing powers from the game leaving blanks in people's builds with zero in-game notification.
Champions has not been particularly well-planned, well-executed, well-documented. I mean, I guess you could mistake a certain degree of incompetence (nuking Lemuria out of existence for a week or two, the Kitchen Sink patch) for mad genius ...
But, honestly, most of the positive changes CO has seen post-Kitchen Sink are either low-hanging fruit (new ATs, stuff for the store), on a slow burn (the changes to the powers and crafting systems), or propagated down from STO and NWN (I haven't checked, but I'd put $10 down on the code for the Alert system not originating with CO's devs)
Looking for bursts of creative genius from a game that's been on life support its entire existence? Where the devs seem to get pushed from this game to the other titles the instant they show any flashes of competency?
The difference how ever is there are MMO's out there that while not superheroes, are still close enough to what people want that there's other options.
With Madden, if you wanted to play a football game, it's likely that Basketball, Baseball or Hockey wouldn't quite cut it.
But if you're a MMO fan, even if you can't play a superhero, there's enough non-fantasy MMO's out there that you do have other options.
Close enough?
Hmm...i don't know about that. I'm with you on the other half though. It being an mmo.
You see there are people like me out there. I want a super hero game. Period. I played COH many years before playing Co for the past 3 years. I don't want close enough. There isn't anything else for my money that's close enough, i want to be a hero. If i can't? Well i don't play anything else...So back to my point...when madden strong armed the public, i strong armed back. I never bought another game from them and i know many who didn't either.
There was nothing close enough about Madden that made me want to play that sport again.
I just hope CO adds more real content, powers, fix the bugs and all before it's too late.
The difference how ever is there are MMO's out there that while not superheroes, are still close enough to what people want that there's other options.
With Madden, if you wanted to play a football game, it's likely that Basketball, Baseball or Hockey wouldn't quite cut it.
But if you're a MMO fan, even if you can't play a superhero, there's enough non-fantasy MMO's out there that you do have other options.
I play co because I like playing superheroes. It's the reason I chose CO. My only other option is DCUO and that's not an option for me because of it's lack of character customisation.I'm also not interested in playing a Marvel character in Marvel Online when it comes out, I like creating my own toons.
Non-fantasy does not equal superhero. I do not have another option for a superhero MMO.
Non-fantasy does not equal superhero. I do not have another option for a superhero MMO.
We're the best of a couple bad options! Yay!
Now THAT's a ringing endorsement!
I get the feeling that this game was /almost/ really good, but management kept on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (ill-timed nerfs, inadequate QA, Jack coming within a hair's breadth of blaming the players, lack of polish, moving experienced devs to other projects, etc.).
I get the feeling that this game was /almost/ really good, but management kept on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (ill-timed nerfs, inadequate QA, Jack coming within a hair's breadth of blaming the players, lack of polish, moving experienced devs to other projects, etc.).
Toss in forgotten in the pursuit of shinier toys and you've pretty much summed it up.
Comments
The petitions and forum postings are working! Paragon Studios is in the talks with NCSoft and investors. There just might be hope yet!
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296759
Don't get your hopes up too much in short.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
sorry everyone.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I think you're reading too much into it, particularly since the majority of the CO playerbase is CoX alumni, and many forumites still play CoX to this day.
Don't confuse vitriol against bad company decisions made by NCSoft for ill will towards CoX or Paragon.
Well... less that than...
...but I do need to pay more attention to who is saying what. The most bothersome stuff seems mostly to be coming from one persistent shetroll.
Way to exaggerate.........where did that come from?
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Think you are trying to read way too far into things.
Bitterness always needs an outlet and will do anything they can to believe whatever tehy want, regardless of whatever is being said.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The snarky self-entitled attitude in your posts makes me think we'd be better off without you.
I think you will find that would be an ecumenical matter!
Also shut up.
Seriously 90% of us play CoX as well . I don't take kindly to getting called a self harmer
You do know Cryptic made both games?
Did I tell you to shut up...yes.. yes I did.. well that's working out grand
Damnit wheres my mojito >_>
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
THIS TIMES 9000 ^^
One head got it in one. Even though I hang about CO more these days being a bit of a CoX vet the title pissed me off A LOT!
But thankfully because most of us here are CoX players also the thread became something else.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You folks have done a yeoman's effort, and I expect this to continue even after the servers are shut down. Keep fighting for what you love.
kind of amusing as those keeping up with the save CoH movement will no that rather than take this as "matter closed, end of story," they're taking it as "we could be in trouble if we don't put a lid on this ASAP"
No doubt, CO will have the same treatment in a year or so when Cryptic decides it wants to focus its efforts on the Southern Antarctic market and funnel CO players into their upcoming Midget Monsters And Mudcakes MMO. At that time, I would be extremely surprised if the OP wasn't one of the first to cry 'foul' and ask why people aren't offended that CO is being shut down so coldly. Or why other MMOs in the same very limited field of MMO gaming are dancing on the grave of CO before it's even dead.
We thought CoX would never die, as it was healthy and still growing as a world. Then one person decided it was a good idea to drop the axe on it and get it out of their sight. No doubt, CO will face the same fate as soon as Cryptic decides it isn't the sparkling jewel it once was. Enjoy CO while it lasts, but never forget that all gaming companies are heartless entities that view their creations as product, to be discarded as soon as possible to get a tax writeoff.
Cryptic won't be the one making that decision, PWE will be. Just like it was NCSoft who decided to kill CoX.
To call CO a sparking jewel at this point... Well clearly you haven't been around for long if you think that's how PWE looks at CO. It's quite clear that PWE considers CO to be on par with a rented mule, and gives it a budget according that status.
There's little doubt that CO will shut down one day, but the fact that's it's lasted this long between Atari and PWE's lack of meaningful support says pretty clearly that PWE feels what ever money CO makes is enough to keep it running for the foreseeable future.
NCSoft on the other hand, has clearly demonstrated their willingness to kill games.
There is no gloating here. I had nothing to do with the decision to shut down CoX and have no opinion as to whether it was a good business decision. I made several other posts discussing things we could do be welcoming and help the transition for disenfranchised CoX players.
Having said that, it is a freaking video game. Although I've been playing CO since closed beta, and I hope it never shuts down, if/when it does I will be disappointed and then move on to another video game or hobby. It certainly won't be the first time. And I likely won't judge an entire community based upon my perception of a single thread title.
CoX players--it's too bad about your game. I do hope you consider CO as a replacement and that you find the players here are generally helpful and welcoming.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I dunno, your view seems bitter. We know that the CO team is expanding, regardless of how people want to read articles, and we know more development time and resources are being given to CO. So far, with all the moves, merger and updating back end stuff going on, it seems that Cryptic is now getting their feet back under them, and finally able to get back into working these updates.
They already told us that the updates wouldn't start getting larger until around the fall, and they also told us nothing major like a zone would happen this year.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Makes you love Skyrim that fact doesnt it. Ya cant sunset mah Xbox
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Perhaps it sounded that way, but that wasn't my intention.
My point is that PWE has not exactly been throwing money hand over fist at CO, and yet it's still here. The same thing happened with Atari.
It would of been fairly easy I imagine for PWE to have closed down CO some time ago, if that's what they wanted to do. When they bought out CO and STO, they could of quite easily of shut down CO, in fact a number of us were afraid that might happen.
Since then CO has improved, but it's clear that of the 3 games, CO, STO and Neverwinter CO is the last one in line in terms of budget.
But even at that, PWE is apparently happy with how CO is doing, or else they would of closed it down already.
Perhaps it was the bitter tone of the post I replied to that carried over into my own post. Because clearly the person I was quoting has a chip on their shoulder over the whole thing, and seemed to be hoping that CO would be shut down as well.
I haven't seen any announcements about this. Can you provide a link?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
The next big event which could have an impact will be the Neverwinter launch next year. If it does drastically worse than expectations, it could mean consolidations at Cryptic. Conversely, if the launch goes smoothly, perhaps some resources will be shifted back to CO. These are all just speculations.
These things are largely out of our control, aside from just supporting the game; offering positive feedback, welcoming new players, spending a little money on subs or content that offer value, etc.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
And that would be bad how? One less competitor, as the OP has stated.
It would be bad because then we couldn't play CO any longer.
It's not our fault that CoX is getting closed, so I fail to see any reason to be pissy with us. CoX getting closed is however a good thing for CO regardless of how we might feel about CoX being closed.
The topic title isn't exactly the best choice. But if you actually bother to read this thread the vast majority of us have been doing what we can to help the CoX people make a smooth transition to CO.
I love it when people say "It's a good thing, as long as it's happening to someone else". Shows a good sense of judgement on the value of things. Unless of course, it does happen to you...in which case, suddenly, it isn't a good thing.
And I dont' know how you could say the title isn't the best choice when it seems pretty clear and to the point.
Sometimes bad things happening is good for someone else. Surely you're not too simpleminded and/or childish to understand this basic truth. A company going out of business is generally good for it's competitors, it's not really that hard of a concept to understand.
No one here wanted CoX to be shut down, none of us wished harm on CoX. But many of us are also able to see that CoX shutting down can be a good thing for CO, because that means a larger playerbase and more money being devoted to improving the game. We have also done what we can as a whole to help welcome CoX players and make the transition as painless as possible.
Apparently however you're one of those people who are so bitter about it, that you want everyone else to suffer along with you. Well sorry but we won't do that, and wishing harm on others is hardly a good way to make friends.
We will continue to play CO and enjoy it, along with all the people leaving CoX and looking for a new home here. Given your attitude, you most likely won't be one of them and I'm pretty sure we won't miss you any.
Life is often a zero-sum game. One party's win is often another party's loss.
When your team wins in sports, another team loses.
When you sell a stock price for again, a seller loses.
When your country wins a gold medal at the Olympics, other countries lose.
etc. etc.
You are apparently enlightened enough to feel everyone in the world's pain and understand that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore I'm sure you never look forward to anything good happening to anyone as long as it has a cost (which is pretty much always).
Congratulations, you have achieved Bodhisattva.
What is such an enlightened being doing playing video games?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
CO isn't prepared to really leverage the situation. While population may bump a bit, bugs and other issues will probably mean CoX players will try one of the many many OTHER f2p games.
Having another, similar game is good for both competition and inspiration. A number of ideas developed in one game migrated to the other game, in its own particular way.
Lack of competition may breed complacency.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
And I do believe it is a net positive for CO; we've already seen a noticeable number of new players. I think Cryptic is trying to make the most of the situation, as seen by TrailTurtle's increased presence, all of the bug fixes in recent builds, and the various in-game events recently. I do that hope that they can do more.
We'll see what happens..
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Once EA bought out the comp. Madden has been a joke. Since 2005 really.
Without competition from other hero mmo's the same is sure to happen here.
After 2005 i never bought another madden. Some of my pals, yeah.
But if you stay they same or do minimal upgrades, people notice.
They leave.
As you pointed out by predicting that former COX players might go to other F2P games if confronted by bugs and other issues, CO does still have competition.
Gamers have finite amounts of time and money to invest in a game. Cryptic is competing with many other games for a slice of the pie.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I'm just glad that I'm able to keep CO and The Secret World both.
As much as some people might say BLASPHEMY BURN THE WITCH ! >:C
CO is Cryptics follow up to CoH. Thats one of the reasons I play CO* . It was a good partner for CoX. When one got a bit stale I'd play the other for a bit and vice versa.
*unfortunate for me Ima on my hols with my crappy netbook at the mo and the only mmo it can play is that **** one based off an average late 90's RTS. So dont go wrecking the place to much I aint cleaning up when I get back :O
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The thing is, Madden still sells a ton of copies.
There's a difference between being competition for creativity, and being competition financially.
For one thing, nobody gives a **** about creativity.
For another, being creative doesn't sell your product.
People do care about creativity and being creative with your design can help to sell your product.
What you meant to say was you don't care about creativity and you don't buy a game for creative design.
Most people don't care about creativity, and pretty much everything new is treated to a healthy dose of "they changed it so it sucks" regardless of the quality or creativity of a product.
If there's novelty, that's a different story, but creativity generally means jack to the mass market.
Taking CO in particular, look at our dumbization throughout the many years (heh). We went from a completely open system that let you combine powers endlessly and an amazing costume creator to a set of ATs because freeform was too daunting, and a "streamlined" character customization system so as not to scare the newbs, and, allegedly, are doing better. I know, correlation, not causation, But it's hard to ignore that the vast majority of products that sell well are not creative, unique or anything of the like, but rather rehashes of previously decently recieved products with a slight tweak, or that the majority of ****ing everything is some kind of sequel or spinoff often reaching double digits in a franchise if not for reboots or naming schemes.
People didn't prefer CoX over CO for it's creativity. That wasn't really said to be a boon in it's favor, nor has it been said of WoW or any of the other big MMOs, and for the most part they all play exactly the same.
My point is that I love creativity and we need more of it and it's a sad day that CoX won't be around to light a fire under COs ****, but people aren't flocking over from Paragon because we got freeform, power replacers, and a nemesis system.
They're coming because their game is dying, and we're familiar. We're the Madden NFL 13 to their Madden NFL 2005.
We didn't win their hearts and wallets through the power of imagination.
What the devs did wasn't so much "dumbing down" as much as it was "putting the psychotic patient through therapy so he can re-integrate it into society." An explanation of the reasoning behind why one heal scaled off one stat and another, similar, heal scaled off a different stat would boil down to "balance reasons."
That's not creative thinking. That's not a well thought out and executed system. That's barely even Calvin Ball.
I agree Creativity does not come from Complex tools. Every new Outfit has set rules (Pants on bottom, shirt on chest, hat on head.) Going out of logical rules leads to more and more extremism. Ask yourself this "When was the last time you went to a Modern Art show and Understood every new Art?" True the Paintings and sculptures are creative expressions, but is it an explosion, Barf, or visualization of complex emotions?
Pairing Creativity with a Story based Game is complex in itself. Having to write and create arcs and dialog that fit every possible idea hard in itself. Then Making sure all the Powers, abilities, and skills Work and don't give to much of an advantage is even more complex (More so adding PVP). Rules are needed for such complexity and that reflected in the game systems. Add to this that many players are young and learning as they go (yes I know there are some kids out there that would blow my mind in their skills) but the over all masses won't understand to much complexity. This isn't lack of creativity, it's lack of skills.
I did came from CoX to CO because it's familiar. In the sense that CoX was a Cryptic Product BEFORE NcSoft. It has the same basic seed of creativity sure the product grew in different ways, but I accept those differences.
What brought me here and not that D.C. MMO is the Community. I know that many CoX players are migrating here. My Friends came here and so did I.
As for Creativity that was the main Fuel for CoX long run (budget cuts was it downfall). The Thrill of what new thing each issue would have. Sure we like familiar when we buy something, but we want CREATIVITY to keep things from being boring. It's the friends and community that keeps us playing MMOs. It's the Ying,Yang of desire.
Given I only have the time and funds for One MMO, I played CoX. But now that over I'm looking forward to what NEW and Inventive things this world has to offer.
I hope it is exciting because I was thinking of trying out Guild Wars 2. Like I said I only have time for one.
Fans of 2k football were up in arms, some went over to madden. Others like me never played football again. I think in CO, they will get a new influx of folks (for now) but the telling next few months will tell if they stay.
Many don't have a choice if they want a Super Hero game to play.
Much like that garbage called Madden. And if Cryptic doesn't step up their game with more than just alerts and toys people (vets and newbies) will leave.
The difference how ever is there are MMO's out there that while not superheroes, are still close enough to what people want that there's other options.
With Madden, if you wanted to play a football game, it's likely that Basketball, Baseball or Hockey wouldn't quite cut it.
But if you're a MMO fan, even if you can't play a superhero, there's enough non-fantasy MMO's out there that you do have other options.
Champions has not been particularly well-planned, well-executed, well-documented. I mean, I guess you could mistake a certain degree of incompetence (nuking Lemuria out of existence for a week or two, the Kitchen Sink patch) for mad genius ...
But, honestly, most of the positive changes CO has seen post-Kitchen Sink are either low-hanging fruit (new ATs, stuff for the store), on a slow burn (the changes to the powers and crafting systems), or propagated down from STO and NWN (I haven't checked, but I'd put $10 down on the code for the Alert system not originating with CO's devs)
Looking for bursts of creative genius from a game that's been on life support its entire existence? Where the devs seem to get pushed from this game to the other titles the instant they show any flashes of competency?
Uhhhhh ...
Hmm...i don't know about that. I'm with you on the other half though. It being an mmo.
You see there are people like me out there. I want a super hero game. Period. I played COH many years before playing Co for the past 3 years. I don't want close enough. There isn't anything else for my money that's close enough, i want to be a hero. If i can't? Well i don't play anything else...So back to my point...when madden strong armed the public, i strong armed back. I never bought another game from them and i know many who didn't either.
There was nothing close enough about Madden that made me want to play that sport again.
I just hope CO adds more real content, powers, fix the bugs and all before it's too late.
I play co because I like playing superheroes. It's the reason I chose CO. My only other option is DCUO and that's not an option for me because of it's lack of character customisation.I'm also not interested in playing a Marvel character in Marvel Online when it comes out, I like creating my own toons.
Non-fantasy does not equal superhero. I do not have another option for a superhero MMO.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Now THAT's a ringing endorsement!
I get the feeling that this game was /almost/ really good, but management kept on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (ill-timed nerfs, inadequate QA, Jack coming within a hair's breadth of blaming the players, lack of polish, moving experienced devs to other projects, etc.).
Toss in forgotten in the pursuit of shinier toys and you've pretty much summed it up.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!