I have zero desire for a Villain faction in CO. I'll lay out my reasons...
1. Resources. CO doesn't have them. They would have to stop production on everything for at least a year plus to adequately create a faction system. I like getting new things...
2. Profitability. It's not there. It's been said by everyone involved that CoV was not profitable. It didn't bring in near as much as it cost to create.
3. It would be for a minority of the player base. CO is pretty low on content as it is. If any major development was to occur (unlikely given the lack of resources) I would prefer it to be content that can be enjoyed by a majority of the player base. That would be PvE, not PvP.
4. It would further split an already small player base.
And those are just the reasons that immediately popped into my head; I'm sure there are more. Not to be rude, but I disagree with this suggestion...
Edit: And just to be clear, I've never RPed a day in my life...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Alright let us start with zone issues, now to be honest I would imagine putting a villain side zone within the city as why would the villains not be in the city. PvP we come to that issue now of course not everyone would want to PvP, so my idea is to have a flag system, and if you did not activate the system then no one could touch you, this would be fair as it would allow an open world PvP, but only to those who are truly interested in the system. We now arrive at villain content, and yes I will admit that this would need to be improved upon, but you are correct in terms that in CoV you act more as an enforcer for a real villain. I implement a gang system, in which much like a hero can design their own rival a villain could perhaps design their own criminal empire, and yes of course there will no doubt be major bugs to work out but still very nice idea. I would also allow them to summon up their gang for assistance. I would also like to keep the system in which they could design a hero, now of course you know jailing them would not make sense, but killing them might seem a little brutal(this will require a bit more thought process, but not entirely lost just a little bit confused maybe draining their power and some process of turning them into a normal human, but dont quote that). We come to another here I would love to see a villain have an information broker who perhaps sets them up on a robbery they could do to expand their influence, and maybe a team system where a hero team could intercept a villain team that is in preparation for a heist seems like a rather fun idea, but this is just another thought process. In terms of zones yes I do believe that the villains need something to resemble Canada and the Desert, but lets not implement these, because what are we going to have a villain invading a hero outpost. The ones not flagged for PvP would have trouble and it would be a giant mess. A system where perhaps the villains could control city blocks with their minions and gain some form of bonus for owning it and heroes can fight to take it back from the npc gang and receive another bonus. I would also speculate that this is not complete, but I personally think it would make some rather enjoyably game play, and add a little bit more flavor to the game. I also would like to say that this would solve any problem of a giant argument over PvP as if you did not want to be part of the fight then you should not have opened yourself as a target.
Would it be profitable? I can not say, but in the same thought how did anyone know that CO would be profitable, and you do not know it might draw in more players, but you asked how it would work this is, but one suggestion of a thousand on how to implement the system.
For a villain side to work in CO they'd have to do a complete overhaul.Some of the things I think may nit be able to be done with it,for example,everyone hates open world PvP which would be a primary thing they'd go for in a villain expansion.The missions would also have to be done way differently,they'd have to come up with a year's worth of new content for it,or they could just use the same missions from a different angle which really wouldn't work,and have to allow us to be a main villain with minions and stuff which also would need an overhaul to do and leave the hero side empty for quite some time.which we desperately need content there,and also with the whole city of tomorrow thing we would't be able to go into ren cen or anywhere safely as a villain,it just wouldn't work out well to have it here.HOWEVER the closest thing to villains that CAN be done is Vigilantes/anti heroes.With the coming of the new gritty zone who knows,we might even get to be anti-heroes.
Just wanted to point out that, even if I'm not PvP flagged, trying to complete a mission in a PvP war zone would still affect my enjoyment of the game. Even if I'm not getting hit, I still have to deal with it whether I want to or not...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Just wanted to point out that, even if I'm not PvP flagged, trying to complete a mission in a PvP war zone would still affect my enjoyment of the game. Even if I'm not getting hit, I still have to deal with it whether I want to or not...
Not my idea of fun...
This is why a villain side would not appeal to the playerbase,the open world PvP,it kills the low levels trying hard to lvl up,it agitates the strong,it kills the weak,its just plain irritating!If we were to have open world PvP,which we do once a month btw,they would have to dumb everyone down to lvl 5 to participate in it.I dont like being lvl 5!
This is why a villain side would not appeal to the playerbase,the open world PvP,it kills the low levels trying hard to lvl up,it agitates the strong,it kills the weak,its just plain irritating!If we were to have open world PvP,which we do once a month btw,they would have to dumb everyone down to lvl 5 to participate in it.I dont like being lvl 5!
Its not just PVP.
Think what factions can do for normal PVE. Would you allow villains and heroes to group? run alerts? If you do it really reduces the entire point of fractions and if you dont. Just imagine how frustrating it would be to que up for an alert or gravitar or lairs if you have to pass over folks simply because they are on the other team.
We dont really have the population to divide up content to same side teams.
there is one thing i am wondering right now, ppl say it is more a dark version of the hero side but quite frankly, this game isn't heroic at all.
we are already playing bully online in tights, at the rate this game is done we're better off making a hero side and change the current game in a true dark champions game.
when i fight villains i don't kill them, in this game i kill as if i am the villain....
uhhm...yeah, i break every bone in their body and disintegrate them with my beams, i don't see that as "defeating" them....
Have you ever read a comic ?
For example the Thing punches Doc Doom through a wall then the Human torch blasts him with fire and the invisible girl traps him in an force field and suffocates him and Read Richards blasts him with his latest gizmo. They then lock him up until the next time they meet.
That is just an example from one comic (not even a dark one) I can find many other examples from Superman to Spiderman that use what in real life would be life threatening attacks but in comic world they just knock villains out.
Every single villain, thug, mook, enforcer, etc that I have ever defeated, or seen others defeat, has been back on the streets in no time at all. Sometimes it seems like its a matter of mere seconds before they are back to their old shenanigans.
Hard to see how anyone could be worried that they killed someone if that someone is still alive. Maybe that particular hero is just not all there (mentally that is). Maybe he is delusional. Perhaps not even a superhero at all, just some poor Joe who thinks he has superpowers and is living in a fantasy world. I mean, the people he claims to have killed are still there. Alive and up to no good.
Thinking of it, the only times I've seen anything that I could point to as unquestionable killing it's been done by animals, aliens, or demonic monsters. so even the villains aren't doing much killing.
(Only killing I've seen that I can recall are the UNTIL soldiers in Aftershock which were killed by demonically possessed and mutated soldiers. The various bodies in Whiteout, killed by the Roi'nesh. Some bodies killed by corrupted wildlife in canada, and the guy who was killed by dinosaurs in a cave on monster island.)
Fun fact: Killing in comics isn't a rule of comics based on the morals of the heroes- it was legally forced on them by the Comics Code Authority. Batman shot people in the face and had a body count, so did many other 'I don't kill' heroes.
In RP scenarios, my character has no qualms about killing in a combat situation. That does not mean he puts someone on their knees and executes them, or guns someone down for stealing a car. That means 'You try to kill me, I kill you right the hell back'. There's no law against taking a life if you did so with the minimal amount of force (In other words, you used a pistol or knife instead of a flamethrower or grenade) and there was a legit threat to the life of others, yourself, or in defense of something equally important (i.e., bad guy steals a nuke).
My character's philosophy, one that I shamelessly Mary Sue'd- "Anyone whose moral code tells them that there is nothing in this world worth killing for, has only love for himself and his own personal comfort."
Fun fact: While there are other examples you could have used from the comics, the one you chose is inaccurate. Batman has never "shot people in the face," and his only "body count" is incidental. (If he were willing to kill villains just because they were a clear and imminent danger to innocents, the Joker would never have seen the inside of Arkham Asylum.)
There was one incident, in the very first comics appearance of the character back in '39, when he was shown holding a gun, but that was before his creators came up with his tragic backstory. After that, it made absolutely no thematic sense for the Batman, possibly the worst case of undiagnosed PTSD ever, to have any truck with guns. (Even Miller's old, bitter Batman from The Dark Knight Returns only used guns as tools - a rifle to plant a slackline so he could cross between the towers, a pistol with a harpoon-line to snag a lethal Kewpie doll at the carnival, and the Commissioner's sidearm so he could set off the charges he'd rigged to cover his escape.)
If you wanted to demonstrate that sometimes heroes have to actually kill their villains, you could look into the history of Alan Scott, the first Green Lantern; or Captain America, back when he was a staple of Timely Comics (before Stan Lee took over and renamed the company); or the Shadow; or - well, most of the Golden Age heroes, actually. In the wake of WWII, there was still a widespread philosophy that sometimes there can be no negotiation with evil - after all, these people had just lived through a massive example of that. (In the modern era, on the other paw, you've got some who think that any violence puts hero and villain into the same animalistic category, because slogans are easier than thinking.)
Unfortunately, you happened to select one of the two examples that could never be used to prove your point (the other being Superman).
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Fun fact: While there are other examples you could have used from the comics, the one you chose is inaccurate. Batman has never "shot people in the face," and his only "body count" is incidental. (If he were willing to kill villains just because they were a clear and imminent danger to innocents, the Joker would never have seen the inside of Arkham Asylum.)
Normally, I like your points- but here's one time I'm going to prove you WRONG.
Also, Joker was supposed to be killed in his first appearance. If I'm not mistaken, Batman kicked/punched/pushed or something and he had a blade through his torso.
You know guys I must say one thing you guys are rather rude aren't you, are you guys those hard core role players, last group of people I saw like this where the virtue server for n CoH
Please just go back to CoH since you love it so much. I am an RPer and I have friends who RP as anti-heroes/villains the current content WITH IMAGINATION can go far. Stop trying to get this thing started again. Please accept the fact that it will not happen.
You know guys I must say one thing you guys are rather rude aren't you, are you guys those hard core role players, last group of people I saw like this where the virtue server for n CoH
Champions Online isn't CoX. It's got similarities, and that's it. No one's being rude, they're being realistic. However, the way you spit on RPers? Dude, there are a LOT of RPers in this game, and the Developers are actually fond of them, as I understand.
If you don't like RPers, and you don't like this game, and all you want is PvP... go play Call of Doodie or World of Borecraft.
I wonder if he is aware that CoV was actually made by Cryptic and if they decided that making a villain side was not profitable, there must be a reason behind it.
Also, if he wants to be a villain so much, I suggest him to try "APB, All Points Bulletin: Reloaded", is just another shooting game, but this time you get to play a cop or a bad guy! FUN! 9__9
PvP we come to that issue now of course not everyone would want to PvP, so my idea is to have a flag system, and if you did not activate the system then no one could touch you, this would be fair as it would allow an open world PvP, but only to those who are truly interested in the system.
Lost me right there, flag systems are horridly abusable by both bug and system exploits. Go back and review the history of UO if you need examples.
Pass. I SO do NOT want to see Heros assisting Villains ever again. :mad:
I highly disagree with this idea.
Champions online isn't nemesis online.
The only idea I could support near this is anti-hero content.
I love champions but it needs more content badly.
This game for alot of people is making a cool costume and using a powerset they haven't used before and leveling the toon.
If anything this game needs more leveling content,we need alternate leveling paths.
TLDR,this game doesn't need a villian side it needs for alternate leveling paths.
Cant say I want villains to be playable here,if you didn't know already Cryptic(the maker of champs online) made another game,CoH which had a villain side to it,and maybe the reason we don't have it nor need it is that it isn't profitable.
Well they Did a Villain side for city of Heroes but not Champions online
simple,because a villain side,doesn't make very much money,it didn't in CoX,and so they figured it wouldn't here,while I do see alot of villains out there,they aren't a majority,its about once in a blue moon I see a "villain" player,even in the RP areas,so it really would'nt make cryptic money to make a villain side,at the most we should at least get vigilante's and anti heroes,but not villains
The villain stories are pretty lackluster in both CoV and DCUO, as all you do is serving the bigger villains. A true villain doesn't go on missions, he sets up his own. :cool:
I think a good "Villains Online" would need to have stong strategical elements: Building lairs, recruiting and commanding henchmen and lieutenants, planing raids and so on. And probably lots of player created content.
Champions Online is just not build for true villain gameplay, and neither are the other superhero MMOs, unless you want to play a minion.
2. You have mentioned the possibility of Dark Champions. Do you plan on actually using NPCs, villains, factions etc. from the Dark Champions sourcebooks or was that just a comparison?
At this early stage, it is just an idea. However, the thinking is to create a new zone expansion featuring the tone of Dark Champions - certainly some of the villains, and perhaps even a new tutorial flow for "vigilante" heroes.
Sounds like the devs liked the idea of the alternate path for Dark Champions from back then.
With the news of Paragon Studios being dissolved, it would be a prime opportunity to implement a villain system.
I came here from CoX. I have been a villain since the day I first logged in. I enjoyed being the detestable lurker in the shadows, doing things because I wanted to not because its the right thing to do. I wasn't a full on chaotic evil, purse-snatching, puppy-kicking madman but I certainly wasn't a goody two-shoes. As a matter of fact, I told my husband when he recommended the game that I refused to be a "campy cape-wearing wuss" and would not play unless they had a villain option. I do have heroes but they were always joke alts, nothing I invested a lot of time in, just something to play around with for laughs.
I have only been playing a few days, I enjoy the costume creator and the combat system. When it comes to goofing around with friends while getting levels, its just as fun as any other game. But when I'm "in the zone" from an RP standpoint, the game is pretty unbearable.
As a roleplayer, being a hero feels awkward and unpleasant. When I talk to mission givers, I feel like I'm being patronized. Mission and NPC dialogue makes me feel that my character is obligated to perform heroic acts these acts because its the "right thing" and "knowing the city is safe is reward enough" or some other such cheese... I want to feel like I do them because it plays to my advantage and provides great material rewards.
When I approach an NPC and say "Hey, what's going on?"I want to hear "Hey you, can you help us? I promise we'll make it worth the trouble." ("I'm listening...")
Not "Greetings, Hero! It is so good of you to offer your aid!" ("But I haven't agreed to anything yet!")
I can't say I'm very pleased with NPCs approaching me every few minutes going on about how amazingly brave and selfless I am either. I want the public to avert their eyes and gossip in hushed whispers about my misdeeds.
i make alot of villain toons, and just play with them as they are.
works so far.
but i whould kill a kitten or something for a villain side on Champions Online tho.
We had this same topic last year where the Great Taco said that CoV didn't draw in as many new players as they hoped and more or less split the community. For the amount of work it took to create all new zones for the villain side it wasn't really worth it.
We had this same topic last year where the Great Taco said that CoV didn't draw in as many new players as they hoped and more or less split the community. For the amount of work it took to create all new zones for the villain side it wasn't really worth it.
Truth. Not only that when Poz was around he also spoke about this and said the same thing. That it was not popular at all and even they were quite surprised. They said that CO was never going to go that route and I'm glad personally.
That it was not popular at all and even they were quite surprised.
It wasn't very popular, the sales of City of Villains was fairly good, but that was alot of the City of Heroes players buying it so they could have access to the SG Base system. Not many people bought it purely for the sake of playing red side.
Most of the population on CoV was people who already owned CoH and bought CoV, and wanted to try out the content on that side.
They most likely made their money back but only just and they did a TON of damage to the player base because of the complete and utter lack of any sort of new content hero side, plus a number of often requested features were added in for the villains but not heroes. CoV nearly killed CoX to be honest.
Cryptic would be foolish to try and do something like that again. The only way it would work is if they produced it as some sort of stand alone/expansion to CO, where they had a whole new dev team who's job it was to make the game, and would have zero impact on any development for CO.
All things considered, maybe a villain side would be a good idea to add. Not as an open-world PVP mode, no. Rather, as a mission architect. Villains are better when they plan. And heroes when they foil those plans.
I always thought if they were going to do some sort of faction based system, that vigilante would be good. They would use the same world and missions, but instead of putting your Nemesis into prison they would, you know, make them sleep with the fishes* instead.
*trying to sound mobster like, fishs, fishes? I know fish has no plural
With the news of Paragon Studios being dissolved, it would be a prime opportunity to implement a villain system.
I came here from CoX. I have been a villain since the day I first logged in. I enjoyed being the detestable lurker in the shadows, doing things because I wanted to not because its the right thing to do. I wasn't a full on chaotic evil, purse-snatching, puppy-kicking madman but I certainly wasn't a goody two-shoes. As a matter of fact, I told my husband when he recommended the game that I refused to be a "campy cape-wearing wuss" and would not play unless they had a villain option. I do have heroes but they were always joke alts, nothing I invested a lot of time in, just something to play around with for laughs.
I have only been playing a few days, I enjoy the costume creator and the combat system. When it comes to goofing around with friends while getting levels, its just as fun as any other game. But when I'm "in the zone" from an RP standpoint, the game is pretty unbearable.
As a roleplayer, being a hero feels awkward and unpleasant. When I talk to mission givers, I feel like I'm being patronized. Mission and NPC dialogue makes me feel that my character is obligated to perform heroic acts these acts because its the "right thing" and "knowing the city is safe is reward enough" or some other such cheese... I want to feel like I do them because it plays to my advantage and provides great material rewards.
When I approach an NPC and say "Hey, what's going on?"I want to hear "Hey you, can you help us? I promise we'll make it worth the trouble." ("I'm listening...")
Not "Greetings, Hero! It is so good of you to offer your aid!" ("But I haven't agreed to anything yet!")
I can't say I'm very pleased with NPCs approaching me every few minutes going on about how amazingly brave and selfless I am either. I want the public to avert their eyes and gossip in hushed whispers about my misdeeds.
Oh if only I had never discovered roleplaying...
I understand where you're coming from. Being a RPer whose main is a villain since I first logged into CO, I'd certainly not say no to a villain side if one would fall out of the sky (given I'm not where it hits the ground...), but only then TBH. It has been often said 'This game is CO not CoX!', but there's another layer behind this statement. CO is often seen as the black sheep in the game reportoire of our Glorious Eastern Overlords (TM), so we supposedly just dont have the necessary resources (Devs, money, whatever) to support detailed and big updates like CoX had them, e.g: The Issue system, CoV or Going Rogue. With resources stretched already as they are, I'd rather have them focus on bringing in any meaningful content which actually keeps the scenario and the story rolling, instead of a complete revamp of the game to include a villain side, no matter my personal preference to play as a villainous character myself.
On a personal note: RP is the best thing that can happen to a villain character. As I said, my main is a villain. Given that he's a mercenary mastermind somewhere between Mr. 47 from Hitman, Deadshot and Lex Luthor, he's certainly easier to play in 'heroic' situations than truly EEEEVIIILLL and bloodthirsty villains, but here's how I like to handle it: The normal missions, we have during the regular gameplay (Defeat another villain, stop a bank robbery, save a kitten) represent him and by extend his associates and mercenary henchmen doing publicity stunts, earning money and keeping their company profile clean. But during RP, he (sometimes) shows his true colors, going into full-fledged villainy killing for money, hunting superheros which offended him (they are doing it by simply existing, he's like that), weapon smuggling, extortion, robbery, burglary, kicking puppies (he did! Okay, it was a werewolf hero...), etc. One person, two sides, two identities.
3/ If you look at this post you will notice there are a few voices asking for villain content and most posters don't seem to be interested.
The forums in no way represent the majority, this has been said by Cryptic before. Remember how the forums were in an uproar over grab bags and selling freeform slots?
As for my feelings on the subject, I'm not sure if they should do it. The only zone that has more than one instance currently is Millenium City, having villain factions with there own zones would divide the community even more. I realize most zones could be shared, but you would assume making atleast one villain zone would be needed and/or wanted.
What I would like to see is an option to play the villain in alerts. Players would queue for it just like regular queue's, then have to fight 5 heroes, Players would be buffed appropriately.
What I would like to see is an option to play the villain in alerts. Players would queue for it just like regular queue's, then have to fight 5 heroes, Players would be buffed appropriately.
Those who know me, also know I harbor an immense dislike of everything PvP (no offense towards the PvPers, you're awesome. Just keep the PvP away from me...), but this idea I officially love.
Those who know me, also know I harbor an immense dislike of everything PvP (no offense towards the PvPers, you're awesome. Just keep the PvP away from me...), but this idea I officially love.
/signed
I recall playing some korean shooter online game long ago.
There was a mode named "The Reaper", one player became the Reaper (with brutally enhanced damage and defense) and remained as such until it was defeated (or until he defeated all opponents).
Then a new round started....dunno how manny rounds each "Reaper" match lasted, but you get the idea.
Those who know me, also know I harbor an immense dislike of everything PvP...
I'm not a fan of PvP either, I don't hate it but I don't like it either and so I tend to avoid it. But I rather enjoyed the Howl event back around release time with the wearwolfs and hunters. So something like this could be a lot of fun I think.
Of course it would do almost nothing to help those who want to play villains.
I could just imagine the devs trying to shoehorn this idea into the existing alert types - only to find that some players simply keep evading for the 2 or so mins and players never win...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I find the talk about villains being nothing more than lowly henchmen funny. Players of either side are low man on the totem pole and answer to higher-up NPCs and do as they're told. The only difference is one is law-abiding, the other isn't.
Not wanting to dedicate resources to develop an all new zone that won't appeal to the majority is understandable. Claiming that nobody wants to be a villain when there are clearly people asking for such a feature is not. Surely creating missions or titles that suggest villainy would be reasonable. (and a way to disable that irritating adoring public... or at least have them keep their distance and gossip)
Share the same world, just not the same side of the law.
I apologize if I come across as being too passionate about wanting there to be more than one side to the coin. I just really feel there can't be one without the other.
I find the talk about villains being nothing more than lowly henchmen funny. Players of either side are low man on the totem pole and answer to higher-up NPCs and do as they're told. The only difference is one is law-abiding, the other isn't.
Not wanting to dedicate resources to develop an all new zone that won't appeal to the majority is understandable. Claiming that nobody wants to be a villain when there are clearly people asking for such a feature is not. Surely creating missions or titles that suggest villainy would be reasonable. (and a way to disable that irritating adoring public... or at least have them keep their distance and gossip)
Share the same world, just not the same side of the law.
I apologize if I come across as being too passionate about wanting there to be more than one side to the coin. I just really feel there can't be one without the other.
Its not that easy. Heroes are typically reactive. Getting missions, reacting to a crisis, rallying to defeat the bad guy. All this is typical hero behavior. And weather this comes from an alert computer or another hero contact. Its simply how most heroes operate. Batman isn't less of a hero for having the comish call him with the bat signal. He isn't less a hero by getting crime info from a computer.
Villains on the other hand are proactive. The joker doesn't wait in his cave waiting for an alert to pop up. He doesn't patrol looking for crime. And he wont call up his buddie Lex to find out if there is something he could be doing.
So while its natural for a hero to take missions from other sources. Its not natural at all for the same to be said of villains. It will always feel wrong to take orders from someone else as a villain.
In a way they already have a villain "zone", Multifaria would be a perfect fit.
The forums in no way represent the majority, this has been said by Cryptic before. Remember how the forums were in an uproar over grab bags and selling freeform slots?
As for my feelings on the subject, I'm not sure if they should do it. The only zone that has more than one instance currently is Millenium City, having villain factions with there own zones would divide the community even more. I realize most zones could be shared, but you would assume making atleast one villain zone would be needed and/or wanted.
What I would like to see is an option to play the villain in alerts. Players would queue for it just like regular queue's, then have to fight 5 heroes, Players would be buffed appropriately.
1/ Multifaria is not a zone it is an AP and I would rather see it made into a zone all my toons could use rather than the devs spend time making villain content that only some of the player base will play (not every one wants to be a Villain).
2/ the thing is go to games that offer villain content and see the amount of players that play as villains it's about a third and missions just don't pop for villains.
3/ My main problem with people wanting villain content Is it gets the limited resources CO has split off from the main game where it is really needed.
4/ Why do you want alerts where you play the villain when we already have a PvP zone zombie Apocalypse where one player is the villain.
I'm actually surprised that CO doesn't already have a villain At/class system/side. Everything else in it seems to be an almost direct copy of the eight year old parent game, City Of Heroes. Almost.
1/ Multifaria is not a zone it is an AP and I would rather see it made into a zone all my toons could use rather than the devs spend time making villain content that only some of the player base will play (not every one wants to be a Villain).
Multifaria would make a perfect home for the villain side and not take to much away from development.
All your toons can currently use Multifaria, no one mentioned the AP being taken away.
Not everyone wants to play a hero.
2/ the thing is go to games that offer villain content and see the amount of players that play as villains it's about a third and missions just don't pop for villains.
3/ My main problem with people wanting villain content Is it gets the limited resources CO has split off from the main game where it is really needed.
I think it's a bad idea, and Cryptic has already learned that. I think it's an easier decision not to do it because neither of the Super Hero games left has a sub only option, which makes it easier to flip back and forth with no commitment.
Comments
1. Resources. CO doesn't have them. They would have to stop production on everything for at least a year plus to adequately create a faction system. I like getting new things...
2. Profitability. It's not there. It's been said by everyone involved that CoV was not profitable. It didn't bring in near as much as it cost to create.
3. It would be for a minority of the player base. CO is pretty low on content as it is. If any major development was to occur (unlikely given the lack of resources) I would prefer it to be content that can be enjoyed by a majority of the player base. That would be PvE, not PvP.
4. It would further split an already small player base.
And those are just the reasons that immediately popped into my head; I'm sure there are more. Not to be rude, but I disagree with this suggestion...
Edit: And just to be clear, I've never RPed a day in my life...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Consolidate currency!
Munitions additions
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Not my idea of fun...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
This is why a villain side would not appeal to the playerbase,the open world PvP,it kills the low levels trying hard to lvl up,it agitates the strong,it kills the weak,its just plain irritating!If we were to have open world PvP,which we do once a month btw,they would have to dumb everyone down to lvl 5 to participate in it.I dont like being lvl 5!
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Its not just PVP.
Think what factions can do for normal PVE. Would you allow villains and heroes to group? run alerts? If you do it really reduces the entire point of fractions and if you dont. Just imagine how frustrating it would be to que up for an alert or gravitar or lairs if you have to pass over folks simply because they are on the other team.
We dont really have the population to divide up content to same side teams.
we are already playing bully online in tights, at the rate this game is done we're better off making a hero side and change the current game in a true dark champions game.
when i fight villains i don't kill them, in this game i kill as if i am the villain....
Nah .. wie only "defeat" them .. the game mechanics only look like in other MMOs where
you kill your enemies
In rare scenes like "Doomsday Device" you can see that, or also now in Alerts
uhhm...yeah, i break every bone in their body and disintegrate them with my beams, i don't see that as "defeating" them....
You maybe never have read a superhero comic then :biggrin:
Have you ever read a comic ?
For example the Thing punches Doc Doom through a wall then the Human torch blasts him with fire and the invisible girl traps him in an force field and suffocates him and Read Richards blasts him with his latest gizmo. They then lock him up until the next time they meet.
That is just an example from one comic (not even a dark one) I can find many other examples from Superman to Spiderman that use what in real life would be life threatening attacks but in comic world they just knock villains out.
Ninja'd by Beldin
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Hard to see how anyone could be worried that they killed someone if that someone is still alive. Maybe that particular hero is just not all there (mentally that is). Maybe he is delusional. Perhaps not even a superhero at all, just some poor Joe who thinks he has superpowers and is living in a fantasy world. I mean, the people he claims to have killed are still there. Alive and up to no good.
Poor misguided sap.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
(Only killing I've seen that I can recall are the UNTIL soldiers in Aftershock which were killed by demonically possessed and mutated soldiers. The various bodies in Whiteout, killed by the Roi'nesh. Some bodies killed by corrupted wildlife in canada, and the guy who was killed by dinosaurs in a cave on monster island.)
In RP scenarios, my character has no qualms about killing in a combat situation. That does not mean he puts someone on their knees and executes them, or guns someone down for stealing a car. That means 'You try to kill me, I kill you right the hell back'. There's no law against taking a life if you did so with the minimal amount of force (In other words, you used a pistol or knife instead of a flamethrower or grenade) and there was a legit threat to the life of others, yourself, or in defense of something equally important (i.e., bad guy steals a nuke).
My character's philosophy, one that I shamelessly Mary Sue'd- "Anyone whose moral code tells them that there is nothing in this world worth killing for, has only love for himself and his own personal comfort."
There was one incident, in the very first comics appearance of the character back in '39, when he was shown holding a gun, but that was before his creators came up with his tragic backstory. After that, it made absolutely no thematic sense for the Batman, possibly the worst case of undiagnosed PTSD ever, to have any truck with guns. (Even Miller's old, bitter Batman from The Dark Knight Returns only used guns as tools - a rifle to plant a slackline so he could cross between the towers, a pistol with a harpoon-line to snag a lethal Kewpie doll at the carnival, and the Commissioner's sidearm so he could set off the charges he'd rigged to cover his escape.)
If you wanted to demonstrate that sometimes heroes have to actually kill their villains, you could look into the history of Alan Scott, the first Green Lantern; or Captain America, back when he was a staple of Timely Comics (before Stan Lee took over and renamed the company); or the Shadow; or - well, most of the Golden Age heroes, actually. In the wake of WWII, there was still a widespread philosophy that sometimes there can be no negotiation with evil - after all, these people had just lived through a massive example of that. (In the modern era, on the other paw, you've got some who think that any violence puts hero and villain into the same animalistic category, because slogans are easier than thinking.)
Unfortunately, you happened to select one of the two examples that could never be used to prove your point (the other being Superman).
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Normally, I like your points- but here's one time I'm going to prove you WRONG.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/g4dfd
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/03/22/batman-kills-murderer/
Also, Joker was supposed to be killed in his first appearance. If I'm not mistaken, Batman kicked/punched/pushed or something and he had a blade through his torso.
http://suite101.com/article/the-real-origin-of-superman-a80380
http://www.ugo.com/the-goods/25-superheroes-who-killed
There's some interesting stuff about Supes right there.
Please just go back to CoH since you love it so much. I am an RPer and I have friends who RP as anti-heroes/villains the current content WITH IMAGINATION can go far. Stop trying to get this thing started again. Please accept the fact that it will not happen.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
If you don't like RPers, and you don't like this game, and all you want is PvP... go play Call of Doodie or World of Borecraft.
Also, if he wants to be a villain so much, I suggest him to try "APB, All Points Bulletin: Reloaded", is just another shooting game, but this time you get to play a cop or a bad guy! FUN! 9__9
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
Lost me right there, flag systems are horridly abusable by both bug and system exploits. Go back and review the history of UO if you need examples.
Pass. I SO do NOT want to see Heros assisting Villains ever again. :mad:
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Champions online isn't nemesis online.
The only idea I could support near this is anti-hero content.
I love champions but it needs more content badly.
This game for alot of people is making a cool costume and using a powerset they haven't used before and leveling the toon.
If anything this game needs more leveling content,we need alternate leveling paths.
TLDR,this game doesn't need a villian side it needs for alternate leveling paths.
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simple,because a villain side,doesn't make very much money,it didn't in CoX,and so they figured it wouldn't here,while I do see alot of villains out there,they aren't a majority,its about once in a blue moon I see a "villain" player,even in the RP areas,so it really would'nt make cryptic money to make a villain side,at the most we should at least get vigilante's and anti heroes,but not villains
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My opinion hasn't changed since.
Oh, and look here:
Sounds like the devs liked the idea of the alternate path for Dark Champions from back then.
I came here from CoX. I have been a villain since the day I first logged in. I enjoyed being the detestable lurker in the shadows, doing things because I wanted to not because its the right thing to do. I wasn't a full on chaotic evil, purse-snatching, puppy-kicking madman but I certainly wasn't a goody two-shoes. As a matter of fact, I told my husband when he recommended the game that I refused to be a "campy cape-wearing wuss" and would not play unless they had a villain option. I do have heroes but they were always joke alts, nothing I invested a lot of time in, just something to play around with for laughs.
I have only been playing a few days, I enjoy the costume creator and the combat system. When it comes to goofing around with friends while getting levels, its just as fun as any other game. But when I'm "in the zone" from an RP standpoint, the game is pretty unbearable.
As a roleplayer, being a hero feels awkward and unpleasant. When I talk to mission givers, I feel like I'm being patronized. Mission and NPC dialogue makes me feel that my character is obligated to perform heroic acts these acts because its the "right thing" and "knowing the city is safe is reward enough" or some other such cheese... I want to feel like I do them because it plays to my advantage and provides great material rewards.
When I approach an NPC and say "Hey, what's going on?"I want to hear "Hey you, can you help us? I promise we'll make it worth the trouble." ("I'm listening...")
Not "Greetings, Hero! It is so good of you to offer your aid!" ("But I haven't agreed to anything yet!")
I can't say I'm very pleased with NPCs approaching me every few minutes going on about how amazingly brave and selfless I am either. I want the public to avert their eyes and gossip in hushed whispers about my misdeeds.
Oh if only I had never discovered roleplaying...
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works so far.
but i whould kill a kitten or something for a villain side on Champions Online tho.
Truth. Not only that when Poz was around he also spoke about this and said the same thing. That it was not popular at all and even they were quite surprised. They said that CO was never going to go that route and I'm glad personally.
It wasn't very popular, the sales of City of Villains was fairly good, but that was alot of the City of Heroes players buying it so they could have access to the SG Base system. Not many people bought it purely for the sake of playing red side.
Most of the population on CoV was people who already owned CoH and bought CoV, and wanted to try out the content on that side.
They most likely made their money back but only just and they did a TON of damage to the player base because of the complete and utter lack of any sort of new content hero side, plus a number of often requested features were added in for the villains but not heroes. CoV nearly killed CoX to be honest.
Cryptic would be foolish to try and do something like that again. The only way it would work is if they produced it as some sort of stand alone/expansion to CO, where they had a whole new dev team who's job it was to make the game, and would have zero impact on any development for CO.
*trying to sound mobster like, fishs, fishes? I know fish has no plural
or go roleplay.
"You can't read my mind, because i can't spell it."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@ZetBuster
I understand where you're coming from. Being a RPer whose main is a villain since I first logged into CO, I'd certainly not say no to a villain side if one would fall out of the sky (given I'm not where it hits the ground...), but only then TBH. It has been often said 'This game is CO not CoX!', but there's another layer behind this statement. CO is often seen as the black sheep in the game reportoire of our Glorious Eastern Overlords (TM), so we supposedly just dont have the necessary resources (Devs, money, whatever) to support detailed and big updates like CoX had them, e.g: The Issue system, CoV or Going Rogue. With resources stretched already as they are, I'd rather have them focus on bringing in any meaningful content which actually keeps the scenario and the story rolling, instead of a complete revamp of the game to include a villain side, no matter my personal preference to play as a villainous character myself.
On a personal note: RP is the best thing that can happen to a villain character. As I said, my main is a villain. Given that he's a mercenary mastermind somewhere between Mr. 47 from Hitman, Deadshot and Lex Luthor, he's certainly easier to play in 'heroic' situations than truly EEEEVIIILLL and bloodthirsty villains, but here's how I like to handle it: The normal missions, we have during the regular gameplay (Defeat another villain, stop a bank robbery, save a kitten) represent him and by extend his associates and mercenary henchmen doing publicity stunts, earning money and keeping their company profile clean. But during RP, he (sometimes) shows his true colors, going into full-fledged villainy killing for money, hunting superheros which offended him (they are doing it by simply existing, he's like that), weapon smuggling, extortion, robbery, burglary, kicking puppies (he did! Okay, it was a werewolf hero...), etc. One person, two sides, two identities.
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
2/ The limited resources Cryptic put into CO I would rather have a new zone for my hero toons than some be a henchman content.
3/ If you look at this post you will notice there are a few voices asking for villain content and most posters don't seem to be interested.
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In a way they already have a villain "zone", Multifaria would be a perfect fit.
The forums in no way represent the majority, this has been said by Cryptic before. Remember how the forums were in an uproar over grab bags and selling freeform slots?
As for my feelings on the subject, I'm not sure if they should do it. The only zone that has more than one instance currently is Millenium City, having villain factions with there own zones would divide the community even more. I realize most zones could be shared, but you would assume making atleast one villain zone would be needed and/or wanted.
What I would like to see is an option to play the villain in alerts. Players would queue for it just like regular queue's, then have to fight 5 heroes, Players would be buffed appropriately.
Those who know me, also know I harbor an immense dislike of everything PvP (no offense towards the PvPers, you're awesome. Just keep the PvP away from me...), but this idea I officially love.
/signed
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
I recall playing some korean shooter online game long ago.
There was a mode named "The Reaper", one player became the Reaper (with brutally enhanced damage and defense) and remained as such until it was defeated (or until he defeated all opponents).
Then a new round started....dunno how manny rounds each "Reaper" match lasted, but you get the idea.
I support "Sell Z-store items individually" & Japan Zone
I'm not a fan of PvP either, I don't hate it but I don't like it either and so I tend to avoid it. But I rather enjoyed the Howl event back around release time with the wearwolfs and hunters. So something like this could be a lot of fun I think.
Of course it would do almost nothing to help those who want to play villains.
We've already got a tiny player base, I think fragmenting it will downright kill this game.
RIP Caine
This exactly, imagine the queue times if only a subset of the population can join in because you need to be all on the same faction.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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Not wanting to dedicate resources to develop an all new zone that won't appeal to the majority is understandable. Claiming that nobody wants to be a villain when there are clearly people asking for such a feature is not. Surely creating missions or titles that suggest villainy would be reasonable. (and a way to disable that irritating adoring public... or at least have them keep their distance and gossip)
Share the same world, just not the same side of the law.
I apologize if I come across as being too passionate about wanting there to be more than one side to the coin. I just really feel there can't be one without the other.
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Its not that easy. Heroes are typically reactive. Getting missions, reacting to a crisis, rallying to defeat the bad guy. All this is typical hero behavior. And weather this comes from an alert computer or another hero contact. Its simply how most heroes operate. Batman isn't less of a hero for having the comish call him with the bat signal. He isn't less a hero by getting crime info from a computer.
Villains on the other hand are proactive. The joker doesn't wait in his cave waiting for an alert to pop up. He doesn't patrol looking for crime. And he wont call up his buddie Lex to find out if there is something he could be doing.
So while its natural for a hero to take missions from other sources. Its not natural at all for the same to be said of villains. It will always feel wrong to take orders from someone else as a villain.
1/ Multifaria is not a zone it is an AP and I would rather see it made into a zone all my toons could use rather than the devs spend time making villain content that only some of the player base will play (not every one wants to be a Villain).
2/ the thing is go to games that offer villain content and see the amount of players that play as villains it's about a third and missions just don't pop for villains.
3/ My main problem with people wanting villain content Is it gets the limited resources CO has split off from the main game where it is really needed.
4/ Why do you want alerts where you play the villain when we already have a PvP zone zombie Apocalypse where one player is the villain.
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Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Multifaria would make a perfect home for the villain side and not take to much away from development.
All your toons can currently use Multifaria, no one mentioned the AP being taken away.
Not everyone wants to play a hero.
I think it's a bad idea, and Cryptic has already learned that. I think it's an easier decision not to do it because neither of the Super Hero games left has a sub only option, which makes it easier to flip back and forth with no commitment.
Because it would be awesome.