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villain side
deadpool416
Posts: 19 Arc User
You guys need a villain side, trust me its great.
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Thanks for this brand new visionary input /sarcasm.
Alright maybe that's a little harsh but it's not a case of it being good or not (although to be honest it never seems to work out how you'd like).
Brick_McDuggins in game.
Where are the evil games like Dungeon Keeper??!!?! WHERE!?
/unsigned. This isn't CoX, we don't need factions!!
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The closest thing they annouced is a starting area for "Dark Champions" <Source>, but that's hardly a villain faction as you proposed.
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One of the things they'd talked about was a less 'quest and level' time of gaming for it. Much more, gathering your things for plots and the like. How that wasn't still going to be quest-ish I don't know but it sounded cool.
The closest you'll get now is that bit in Aftershock where you play as a K o E.
As an Rp'r I'd be down for that and I think the PvP crowd would enjoy it, because it'd necessitate a open world PvP or some sort of PvP event system I think.
Imagine if an Alert the Nemesis was a player? Awesome I think
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don't really understand it.
Nope .. its all about the ganking .. they will even play the Knight in a shining armor if they
just can backstab a low level who is just already overhelmed by 2-3 groups of mobs
CoH villain side was just hero dark mode, and DCUO villain side was just hero dark mode... I fail to see what villain side would bring other than to satisfy the idea for some that want to gank and would think it would be silly that they can't attack heros/villains indiscriminately.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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THIS is my main problem with your idea.
I don't want "World PVP", I don't want to have to "hide" from villains because I don't want to deal with Gankers and Griefers. Most of my builds are PVE and made to play with my friends and my husband. I do not play this game to duel, fight or deal against other players.
How about you not engaging in the game since it lacks the "dark and evil" flavor in the missions, while you are basically doing the SAME content as the "goodie two-shoes" side??
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Villain gameplay has been suggested and rejected many times before.
See, the problem is that villains don't act the same way heroes do. It's not just their motivation and methods that are different. A villain is proactive. He is the one who sets things up and in motion while a hero just reacts to things that are happening.
Champions Online, and basically ALL action-oriented MMORPGs out there, are build for reactivity: You get a quest, you complete it. Applying this concept to an evil character is not enought to make him a villain. You would still complete tasks others have set up for you. That makes you, practically, a minion.
Good that you mention it. Dungeon Keeper is one of the few good villain games. But it's also very different from Champions Online. It is a strategy RPG that runs on player-created maps. Because a true villain acts strategically, sets things up to his advantage and leaves the action mostly to others - unless he decides to enter combat personally.
So, unless you want to play a mercenary or the enforcer of a higher villain, like in CoV and DCUO, Champions Online is just not build for it.
a villain side needs a game that can handle that, sadly this game has way to many design flaws that adding a villain side is like adding cream in dirt.
CoV did have a lot of the same implementations as CoH I will give you that, but at the very least they did try something rather new.
There is much to be fixed, added, bug squashed as it is!
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No wonder. CoH was the first superhero MMO, after all. But you could play the "bad guys" in many other MMOs before CoV.
I have tried Villains in other mmo's and have never felt like I was playing a villain just a hero with darker dialogue setting up the missions. Villains are instigators they plan and act where heroes are reactive and there fore easier to write missions for.
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
And
Hell I'd settle for the limited 'faction' split that STO started with [I have no idea how it's going these days despite my LTS]
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
[SIGPIC]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd175/Fifer71/mandrakesigmark3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Orly?
Mind you, this was 2010, maybe before your time.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
If by nicely populated you mean had less than a 1/3rd average of the hero side at all times, then yes, you are right. I played CoV almost exclusively, and villain side was almost constantly sparse.
I'm sorry you don't like that people don't want to sit there, especially in Champions near infinite ability for one shots to occur, to get blind sided against their will in PvP they don't want to participate in. Considering the system would have no consequence either and no real reason for world PvP of any flavor, just adding it in just to be there will just turn things into grief fests that a lot of players do not want to deal with. That and the fact that CO's PvP is horrible to begin with.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Ah! The plot thickens!!
The are going to add a new section for dark heroes!! Eventually!!
Unsubstantiated Rumors: (The Future)
Agent, please treat these rumors with the appropriate discretion. Reports of these features are unsubstantiated or come from untested sources. Nevertheless, if these reports can be believed, they represent features and ideas for which the team has great enthusiasm. Items listed in this section need the most discussion and are subject to the largest change. This list does not represent all the things the team may want to do but they are among the most frequently reported.
? New ?Island of Dr. Destroyer? Mini-Zone, Lair and Story Content
? New Millennium City ?Expansion? Zone (2-3 Neighborhoods)
- Possibly a dangerous ?Boardwalk Empire? waterfront / casino district, controlled by some of the richest, most famous super-criminals
- Perhaps neighbored by a ?Hell?s Kitchen? stretch, a perfect birthplace for the likes of ?Dark Champions?
Ah... Rumors... After two years and we got this rumor.
Still, not a villain side, but is a huge step to that direction! If it ever comes true. :cool:
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That quote from 2010 was in question of a villain side, and just outlining what they would like to do if there actually ever comes a point that a villain side expansion might actually be worth the time and effort. But, again, citing horrible PvP mechanics in CO (and not just recent it's been an ongoing issue since launch) and past experience and even more recent games that have launched, the villain side hasn't been as popular and led on. In fact, I would wager if that Paragon would have revamped CoV into an extended hero zone area long ago if they thought it wouldn't cause a ruckus.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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I thought that the classy thing was not to mention it, but you are right. The pvp in this game is more broken than my old grandma's hips!!
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Well there's a difference between 'no plans' ever and yes, they've considered it. As I'd mentioned way back in this thread, they'd thought about it. With the understanding that it would be very different thing.
I think it could be a viable side game part of CO. I mean as much time and effort as they've put into PvP in this game, not that this pleases anyone, but they have. And it's for a small chunk of the game; probably less that third of the players even at the peak of PvP.
So if it performed like CoV did, it'd be used by a larger chunk of the player base than PvP.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
What server did you play on? I never had trouble finding people on CoV, and also you make it sound like PvP was forced in it, as far as I recall unless you were in a zone that gave clear warning that PvP was included then you did not have to worry about being involved, and to be honest you could keep your replies on a somewhat friendly level.
if they flag Canada an MI maybe for PvP, because we could just use any of our other 50 zones.
Oh .. wait ..
I love the complete distane for RPers. When all you seem to be asking for is an RP option. Unless of course, you are proposing to actually be a bad guy, to other people. And not simply pretending to be (RP) via game content.
Silent cry to gank uncovered?
The fact that even Freedom, CoH's most populace server back in the day with Virtue only a little behind it, was at best, 1/3rd of the population was on villain side, isn't a made up statistic. It wasn't a secret or a made up conspiracy, it was a simple fact, given the lackluster attempt to even bother updating villain side post i7. The fact villains got any consideration was an after thought, not an actual devotion to villain side, since there were "big plans" to add more villain zones later that never happened. Villains were tacked on to hero adventures just to attempt to placate them, turning villains into more of hero dark than they already were. And with Going Rogue, villain side is even more desolate than it ever was.
And as for your free PvP scenario, where would you put villains? Considering they are still talking about new zone expansions for Champions that haven't come about yet, where would you get the resources and time to devote to making all new content and zones just for villains? Or would you just plop them in the city and make them do the same old hero content all over again? And PvP flags, would it be always on or off? And what would happen if a villain commits a robbery, would they get PvP flagged? If they are flagged all the time that means they will get ganked.
Considering the fact there are still dozens of zone possibilities and the amount of support we get right now for Champions on just the hero content, the chance of actually making villain content at all would be minimal at best.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Particularly if it was implemented in the sand-box(ish) way as quoted previously in this thread.
Anything that adds more to the game, and more variety, to attract more paying customers would be a good thing IMO.
BUT (and this is a big but
Something of this sort would cost a lot of money. Money that might otherwise have been spent on the hero side of the game. Cryptic/Paragon are the only ones with access to the numbers that would tell whether that expenditure would produce more return on investment if spent on villains or on heroes....and they are choosing to not spend it on villains. That is a pretty solid (IMO) indication that they have reason to believe that investing the time and money in developing a villain side would not be a good investment.
If you want a villain side, youre going to have to either fund it yourself (kickstarter ?) or somehow convince Cryptic that their experience, numbers, statistics, etc are wrong.
Not trying to be rude, just want to make clear that the reasons this is unlikely to happen have nothing to do with any individual's preference for hero or villain play, but rather with economics.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Have you ever played a game like A I O N ? Then you would maybe no why some people
really really hate all kinds of forced open PvP and are strictly against that in a PvE game.
After 6 months i ragequit A I O N because the ganking had gotten that bad in the 30-45 zone
where you where steamrolled from lvl 50 gank squads all the time, and questing was
nearly impossible.
And after that i will never ever play any game with that kind of gankplay anymore, and most
of my friends also not.
I never said an open PvP, thats why I fail to understand why people assume that I want just a giant open PvP zone where anyone could kill anyone. Have you ever played CoH, there is no open PvP only happens if you are in a PvP zone.
Like free form, lack of factions something unique to this game. Perhaps instead of looking at it as something the game is missing. It could be, instead, looked at as one of the games positive features. I know I do.
Lets not rush off to take something that makes the game different, just to make it more of the same. A same, that is most likely, already done better then Cryptic could do anyhow.
Maybe because thats what 99.9% of the players who want villain gameplay here, have
wanted so far ? I think there is also recently just another thread where somebody want
open PvP.
Ah here we go :
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=158831
Ok else it has been said 1000 times that pro-active villain play is not really possible, since
that needs to be such a great sandbox style game. So all thats left is doing the same quests
as a hero or what most wanted : PvP.
Proactive gameplay is not impossible, and I will admit that it would take several implementations, but it is not necessarily impossible.
Consolidate currency!
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Why not to do surveys and free offers
EQ2 had 2 factions but no PvP. So you could take whatever side you liked more but could
play together with your friends from the other side without problems
I also am happy what they do in GW2 where they strictly seperate PvE and PvP and all the PvE
is totally cooperative, since you can't even harrass players with mob or node-stealing and
get also experience for rescurrecting other players. Also not even Duells are allowed so
nobody can annoy you with duell spam.
Maybe if Cryptic had the money that Blizzard had ... but i tell you a secret : They have not.
People wait for 2 years now for just ONE !!! new zone, and we got nada. So where do you
think they should take the developer ressources to implement that ?
Well when they make me manager of finances I will let you know
I never made the connection with factions and PVP. As you pointed out they don't always go hand in hand.
I simply stated this is one of the few, if not only games, i'm aware of that has no factions at all.
Some people want to find fault with it, I find it a unique feature. Ive never been a fan of forcing the player base to instantly pick a side just to play. This is a fun game where everyone is on the same side for once. That's actually kinda nice.
In short, you don't *just* get mission A from contact B to fight/solve/rescue thing C...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Going back to the first post, do we need a villain side? No. And you have fail to explain to us why this would be so great for the game and how to do it.
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!