And yet that document, along with the system of English Common Law, spawned the American judicial system, where innocents are quite often punished and even executed for crimes they didn't commit.
I suppose in light of all the profound wisdom displayed in this thread we should scrap most modern judicial systems and start over in favor of the much better, infallible system we all have in mind. The problem is, in the absence of omniscience, that system doesn't exist.
The solution here? Scrap the chat-ban system from all Cryptic games and hire shifts of GMs to respond to such behavior appropriately. This is unfortunately not likely to occur given Cryptic's apparent budget and priorities.
Yes, innocent people are often punished in the judicial system. But none are punished so for the purpose of showing the guilty that they could be punished as well.
But you are right about the solution for the chat banning. The lack of GMs to weed the innocent from the guilty is the problem. If somebody is innocent and griefed and muted, the system doesnt collect evidence to contrary. Its just an automated system.
Ignore/report spam is busted , again need I remind some I got a 24 hour chat ban once even though I was away for 2 weeks and wasnt on so I couldnt have spammed zone.
So how did I get muted? The ignore feature on the old forums. Simply people who didnt like what I was saying ignored me, I can be brutal and not pull my punches so its rather understandable some peeps dont like my style. ( they are obviously idiots cause ima awesomejuice ) Now on the old forums the ignore on the forums is linked to the ignore in the game and that in turn linked to the report spam. Do you see what I am saying?
The ignore / spam button isnt working simply because ignore is somehow activating report spam. Thats a bug. Its that simple
Why the hell are we talking about people shooting each other to death and stuff?
And another thing, does anybody else find it a little ironic that people have this "kill em all, let god sort em out" mentallity of punishing the innocent to get the point across to the guilty (or to the devs for that matter) while playing a super hero game? Heroes that are generally depicted as icons to uphold justice and always do the right thing no matter what.
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
The ignore / spam button isnt working simply because ignore is somehow activating report spam. Thats a bug. Its that simple
in A I O N the report spam puts people automatic on ignore, what makes a lot sense.
Now since Cryptic always thinks a little "cryptic" they thought it makes sense to reverse that
so that when you ignore a person, that one is a spammer :biggrin:
Sorry Sigmaseven, I don't believe in situational morality. "Sometimes" is not an acceptable answer for me...
And while, the criminal justice system is not perfect, it is in fact illegal to purposefully abuse to system. There are repercussions for said abuse. Repercussions that CO lacks in its chat ban system...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
If were talking about, say... the death penelty or even most real life situations than the answer is probably no.
But in the context of an online video game and especially when the "punishment" isn't that big a deal is really only an inconvenience, I have to side with hocofaisan.
And shame on those who implied hocofaisan is unAmerican or a coward, a cop-out.
Aside from Thudrax's (erm, I mean canadascott's) gigantic...
...the idea of this system is NOT to "punish" anyone, it is, as has already
been stated, purely a counter-measure to prevent goldspammers [/the end].
And this isn't a war of good vs. evil, where we HAVE to prevent ALL "wrong doers" from getting away with it, otherwise they "win". You have an issue with what anyone says in-game? That's what the ignore function is for. There is 100% ZERO need to chat-ban anyone from the game because you or even 99.9% don't approve of what they say.
And if what they were posting in chat was really so harmful or disruptive that warranted disciplinary actions beyond merely being "ignored" by those that don't approve of them, it should be up to the moderators (which granted, in this game we don't have ) to determine if that's the case...and
ban them themselves (as any responsible company would) rather than delegate that task to the playerbase and let us lynch mob ourselves into perpetual chat silence.
...This^ point, which doesn't limit itself to calling hocofaisan unAmerican or a coward? Is this a cop-out as well? Or did I actually try to explain exactly why "punishing" people in this case is not even necessary?
And even with all its flaws, it serves that purpose. Just this weekend, we had someone spamming the forums with CC scams and such and other ppl on the forums requesting a way to report them.... At least we have that ingame.
Which proves what? That people want a report function for the forums? Let me ask you something. Back when we used to have a report function at the forums, what did it do? How did it work?
Did it...
A) Auto-banned posters based on X number of reports without a mod ever having to even look at their post to determine whether or not an actual violation had been made? Or...
Send a report to the moderators, which they would then have to look at to determine if a violation had actually been made and take action accordingly? (a.k.a. exactly what we're complaining that the current automated in-game chat-ban system is not doing)
Things like that can not only compromise a single players security, but also the security of the whole game. We already got hacked once, an ill bet that the same ppl complaining about the chat ban will be the 1st to throw Cryptic under the buss if we get hacked again because we removed the tool that keeps CC scammers and phishing ppl out of zone chat.
How exactly does a bunch of people talking trash or simply saying stuff in Zone chat (or any other type of chat for that matter) that some people may find objectionable--which is the real issue being discussed on this thread--compromise the security of even a single player?
And how exactly does the auto-ban function prevent the security of the game or a player's account from being compromised? Aren't we still capable of seeing anything anyone posts till they finally get chat-banned? And were is the mass of CC scammers that we need to chat-ban ANYONE that gets falsely reported just so that on the off chance that there is an actual scammer that they can possibly get reported as well? How does someone even hack the game or an account by posting stuff on chat?
The criminal justice system is also flawed but that doesn't mean its logical or beneficial to just get rid of it all together.
Except we're not talking about any actual crimes. We're talking about people saying things on chat that others may find objectionable, and calling it a "crime" that somehow requires "punishment", neither of which is the case (that they are crimes or that they require punishment).
Also, since we're taking the silly nonsense that gets said in-game out of context and on to the next level and comparing it to actual crimes. There is a huge, MASSIVE difference, between people occassionally being punished by crimes they didn't commit, while the justice system (I pressume) punishes the actual guilty the extensive majority of the time, vs. people rutinely being punished for "crimes" they didn't commit just to ensure that on the off chance that they actually did commit those crimes, that they might be punished as well.
The system that we have in game =/= the real life justice system by ANY stretch (neither in concept, intend or actual practical functionality)
People do NOT routinely get punished for crimes they didn't commit in real life. They do all the time in game, since NONE of the players that get chat-banned are actual goldseller/scammers, which is the only analog to a "crime" in this case.
I have been playing this game since 09 and have never been banned. I think its reasonable to assume that the some of the people who got chat banned, were saying some inflammatory things (regardless of your intention). Yes, people can exploit the system if you ALLOW your self to be a target, but every system has its flaws.
The criminal justice system is also flawed but that doesn't mean its logical or beneficial to just get rid of it all together.
If you don't see what's wrong about putting the power to police in the hands of anonymous online users, I have no hope for you. The issue is not who is deserving or not, it's who is making the decision.
The only way to not be a potential target is to not use public chat at all.
I do not want Cryptic to eliminate the option to police chat. I want them to man up and do what every other game company does. Sadly, that will not happen.
Since quotes external to video games don't illustrate the real point, I've got a quote for you that is appropriate to the situation.
"Any system in an online game that can be abused will be abused." -- Scarlyng
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
In Oakland, CA in 2009, a few police officers were pinning down an innocent man named Oscar Grant. One of the police officers, officer Johannes Mehserle, stood up, drew his gun, and put a bullet into Mr Grant's back. Oscar Grant was doing nothing, he wasn't even guilty of anything. The incident was recorded with camera phones from multiple angles and posted to YouTube. Riots broke out immediately afterward.
The closest Oscar Grant came to being in the wrong was that he was in the general vicinity where the police had been called to where a fight had broken out when they were called. To the best of my knowledge, Mr Grant was not even involved in said fight.
Incase you missed that, an innocent man was put to death by law enforcement officers when no crime was even committed. Riots broke out. When innocent people are punished, it does not inspire anyone to respect the law, not even people who are already otherwise law abiding citizens. When law enforcement fails to control its own behavior and only punish those who are guilty, then the law enforcement loses control over everything else too.
To be fair, Mr. Grant was resisting arrest by refusing to allow police to handcuff him, and Officer Mehserle claimed he intended to taze Mr. Grant but accidentally grabbed his pistol instead of his tazer -- a claim the jury that tried Officer Mehserle apparently found persuasive.
Note that I agree with your conclusion (punishing innocent people does not inspire respect for the law); I just think the Oscar Grant case isn't a good example.
...This^ point, which doesn't limit itself to calling hocofaisan unAmerican or a coward? Is this a cop-out as well? Or did I actually try to explain exactly why "punishing" people in this case is not even necessary?
You didnt call him those things so why are you even responding to it?
Which proves what? That people want a report function for the forums? Let me ask you something. Back when we used to have a report function at the forums, what did it do? How did it work?
Did it...
A) Auto-banned posters based on X number of reports without a mod ever having to even look at their post to determine whether or not an actual violation had been made? Or...
Send a report to the moderators, which they would then have to look at to determine if a violation had actually been made and take action accordingly? (a.k.a. exactly what we're complaining that the current automated in-game chat-ban system is not doing)
not sure where your coming from here, i just said that the system, while flawed, serves its purpose too. You then go on to talk more about the flaws that we both already know about.
How exactly does a bunch of people talking trash or simply saying stuff in Zone chat (or any other type of chat for that matter) that some people may find objectionable--which is the real issue being discussed on this thread--compromise the security of even a single player?
It doesn't and that isn't the point. I was simply pointing out that removing the system could cause security problems. Once again your fixating on a flaw in the system that we both already know exist and missing my main points.
Some people here are implying that innocent people falling victim to flaws in the system is grounds for the system being removed. I'm saying that removing the system completely can pose a security risk, not that the victims of the exploit are a security risk.
And how exactly does the auto-ban function prevent the security of the game or a player's account from being compromised? Aren't we still capable of seeing anything anyone posts till they finally get chat-banned? And were is the mass of CC scammers that we need to chat-ban ANYONE that gets falsely reported just so that on the off chance that there is an actual scammer that they can possibly get reported as well? How does someone even hack the game or an account by posting stuff on chat?
Are you saying that phishing is NOT a security risk?
Except we're not talking about any actual crimes. We're talking about people saying things on chat that others may find objectionable, and calling it a "crime" that somehow requires "punishment", neither of which is the case (that they are crimes or that they require punishment).
I must not be communicating clearly...
One of my main points exactly what you just said. There are people in this thread comparing what is going on in this thread to civil liberty's issues.
Your right we aren't "talking about any actual crimes" and that's one of my main points. Being chat banned is unfortunate but not "srs biznis".
I dont think its serious because EVERY system has flaws, and if this flaw is fixed, people will just complain about another thing.
What i oppose most in this thread is the sensationalism. Don't take this personally but i think your sig is a good example of sensationalizing an issue. By that i mean that while the regen ban i unfortunate, its not as serious or malicious as kidnapping children in the night.
People do NOT routinely get punished for crimes they didn't commit in real life. They do all the time in game, since NONE of the players that get chat-banned are actual goldseller/scammers, which is the only analog to a "crime" in this case.
I completely disagree with this but that's another topic.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
If you don't see what's wrong about putting the power to police in the hands of anonymous online users, I have no hope for you. The issue is not who is deserving or not, it's who is making the decision.
Its not that serious bro.:rolleyes:
You make it sound like im advocating censorship of the internet. Im not saying that there isnt any thing wrong with the exploit but:
"Any system in an online game that can be abused will be abused." -- Scarlyng
Bingo.
This is basically a fact of life. No one to be mad at, nothing to be upset about. no reason to "loose hope".
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Just as a point of reference, since the question has already been raised, a study from Ohio State estimated that 10,000 convictions out of 2 million in the US per year were likely wrongful. That's 0.5%, or one out of every 200 convictions, which is not a small percentage when considering citizens' rights and freedoms. The study also mentioned that they believed that to be low estimate.
Just as a point of reference, since the question has already been raised, a study from Ohio State estimated that 10,000 convictions out of 2 million in the US per year were likely wrongful. That's 0.5%, or one out of every 200 convictions, which is not a small percentage when considering citizens' rights and freedoms. The study also mentioned that they believed that to be low estimate.
Studies such as this are frequently cited in arguments against the death penalty (I am expressing neither support nor condemnation for the death penalty here).
This illustrates my point. These quotes were written by people speaking on entirely different situations in a different context. These are not universal truths that can be applied in ANY context without fail.
Those quotes were written by people commenting on the exercise of power in the broadest general sense. Though they were not specifically, obviously, referring to video games, they were referring to situations where those in a position of authority, from which they might condemn members of a community, must choose between allowing the guilty to go unpunished rather than punish the innocent.
The only one of the three being specific, rather than speaking in general philosophical terms, was Blackstone as he was commenting specifically on English legal precedent. Even he espoused the concept as having broader merit because he believed that the English precedent arose out of the recognition of a greater truth.
The situations and context these men spoke of were the inherent wrongness of governing bodies punishing the innocent members of a community in order to capture the guilty. Not at all out of context from what we are seeing here.
If were talking about, say... the death penelty or even most real life situations than the answer is probably no.
But in the context of an online video game and especially when the "punishment" isn't that big a deal is really only an inconvenience, I have to side with hocofaisan.
]
Isnt that big of a deal to YOU.
Denial of a paid for service without grounds might be a bigger deal to others. If you are someone for whom RP is a primary means of playing the game, or someone for whom hosting Costume Contests is a primary reason for playing the game, you would be essentially losing access to the game.
For example, if other players had the ability to deny you the ability to actually play the game. You know fight bad guys, PvP perhaps, do missions,whatever, but you were allowed to RP or hold CCs, would it bother you ?
To be fair, Mr. Grant was resisting arrest by refusing to allow police to handcuff him, and Officer Mehserle claimed he intended to taze Mr. Grant but accidentally grabbed his pistol instead of his tazer -- a claim the jury that tried Officer Mehserle apparently found persuasive.
Note that I agree with your conclusion (punishing innocent people does not inspire respect for the law); I just think the Oscar Grant case isn't a good example.
I've seen the incident from multiple angles. Mr Grant was not resisting arrest. I personally do not find the tazer argument to be persuasive. Either Mehserle doesn't keep his gun's safety turned on, or he did it intentionally because he would have had to manually flip the safety. I'd personally like to ask him which it is, is he grossly incompetent, or a murderer?
The reason I use the example of Oscar Grant is because he wasn't doing anything to warrant being shot OR tazered. The police lost control of the situation, and then lost control of the city all because one cop lost control of his mental faculties...
Somehow someone will figure out that all the chat bans were caused by G W Bush if this thread keeps going the way its going.
Its just a broken mute button that greifers use to annoy people.
I'm with you on this.
I find it ironic that the zaneyest person on the forums has the most mature response to today's flavor of the month CO forum drama.
To the rest of you who want to rage about this and talk like CO forum drama is in the same scale as Ben Franklen be my guest.
Its your prerogative if you want to raise your blood pressure over nothing.
Im out of this thread.
/e chucks deuces
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
And yet that document, along with the system of English Common Law, spawned the American judicial system, where innocents are quite often punished and even executed for crimes they didn't commit.
I suppose in light of all the profound wisdom displayed in this thread we should scrap most modern judicial systems and start over in favor of the much better, infallible system we all have in mind. The problem is, in the absence of omniscience, that system doesn't exist.
The solution here? Scrap the chat-ban system from all Cryptic games and hire shifts of GMs to respond to such behavior appropriately. This is unfortunately not likely to occur given Cryptic's apparent budget and priorities.
I completely agree that no system is perfect.
But we have a system where the problem has been identified and where solutions to this problem are known and implementable. Decision to punish those innocents when you have the ability to not do so, but are unwilling to enact it, is very different than lacking omniscience.
What is really gained by allowing person X to deny person Y access to aspects of the game because he disagrees with Y's opinions on Woverine's merit as a character ?
Shift's of GM's are not needed. Someone advertising a costume contest or saying that they do not like Wolverine does not need a GM to respond. Harsh language, words that are somehow harmful to you...ignore the poster and problem solved. No one has to read chat that they find objectionable for whatever reason. Ignore doesnt have to deny anyone access to the service.
The difference between modern judicial systems and what we have here is that the judicial system exists to try to ensure that the guilty are punished while protecting the innocent. Such spend billions of dollars attempting to ensure the guilt of the accused before punishment is assigned.
What we have here is a system designed to punish the innocent if used as intended.
Kind of an important distinction. A system that attempts, to the best of its ability, to punish only the guilty, and a system that targets the innocent are very very different.
To the rest of you who want to rage about this and talk like CO forum drama is in the same scale as Ben Franklen be my guest.
This makes me really sad.
The inability to recognize that scale of impact does not determine the value of justice. The belief that this is about, "forum drama," rather than the idea that innocent people should not be singled out for punishment, regardless of the scale of the punishment. The belief that if the punishment doesn't affect oneself its impact upon others is inconsequential.
I am almost always posting weird and witty comments in zone chat when they come to mind.
Just this afternoon I had this conversation with a player in MC zone chat. Me: I came here to Champs to buy Lucky Stars and chew bubble gum and I'm all out of Lucky Stars. Other Player: Can I have some bubble gum? Me: It's fruit stripe, the flave only lasts 5 seconds. Other Player: If that's it then no.
It might not be the exact conversation but it's close.
A Month or so ago I had this one. Me: Is it me or does the Annelid Horrors look like giant flapping @#!$&* flapping in the wind? Other Player: And how dose that make you feel?
I would go on with this one but it gets pretty dirty after that.
The point is I do this almost all the time with the witty and weird stuff. I have not once been reported for spamming. Now I'm sure there is a small number of players who have been silenced wrongfully by a player with a "small pants syndrome" attitude because they got beat by the other in PVP. As for the others claiming wrongful silence, they may just be crying for attention.
For the RPer's who get silenced you should just create your own secret channel. Tell no one about it except thoughts you role-play with.
---
The real face behind my Champs heroes. Enjoy my awesome beard.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Don't worry, Brian. Your silence is coming, as is mine. Vizzone has been silenced twice, and I can personally verify that he doesn't spam by any rational definition of the term. He does chat in character as Lee Tosi, a narcissistic sociopath with serious self-esteem issues and a pet Teleiosaur - Lee's fun. Apparently, somebody took exception to his chatting in character, and has twice used the autochatban to shut him down.
For that matter, the discussion of "personal opinions of fictional characters" is based on the actual example of Smackwell, who said in chat, once, "Wolverine sucks!" Someone proceeded to whine about this in chat, and use the Report Spam function to shut Smacky's chat down for 24 hours.
Just because you've been lucky so far does not invalidate the examples above. Just because the last remaining Wallenda hasn't fallen to his death during his high-wire act, doesn't mean that others haven't either, you know?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Smackwell, who said in chat, once, "Wolverine sucks!"
I didn't even use an exclamation point!
And Brian, just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. It's quite possible that you're just one /ignore away from being chat banned. Honestly, you probably got a few for that annelid comment.
I didn't type everyone who got silenced was not innocent, I also typed
Now I'm sure there is a small number of players who have been silenced wrongfully
I probably should have clarified that statement more.
And I am sure I am on a few peoples ignore list. I usally do this type of stuff when I see some players having a peeing contest with one another. I try to calm it down with some dry humor.
---
The real face behind my Champs heroes. Enjoy my awesome beard.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Don't worry, Brian. Your silence is coming, as is mine. Vizzone has been silenced twice, and I can personally verify that he doesn't spam by any rational definition of the term. He does chat in character as Lee Tosi, a narcissistic sociopath with serious self-esteem issues and a pet Teleiosaur - Lee's fun. Apparently, somebody took exception to his chatting in character, and has twice used the autochatban to shut him down.
For that matter, the discussion of "personal opinions of fictional characters" is based on the actual example of Smackwell, who said in chat, once, "Wolverine sucks!" Someone proceeded to whine about this in chat, and use the Report Spam function to shut Smacky's chat down for 24 hours.
Just because you've been lucky so far does not invalidate the examples above. Just because the last remaining Wallenda hasn't fallen to his death during his high-wire act, doesn't mean that others haven't either, you know?
I still suspect there is more to all these stories.
When I play I chat in MC chat all the time. Never been banned once.
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
But in the context of an online video game and especially when the "punishment" isn't that big a deal is really only an inconvenience, I have to side with hocofaisan.
I have been playing this game since 09 and have never been banned.
Speak for yourself.
A 24 hour denial to using the chat isn't a small thing. If the player getting chat-banned is a weekend player then that's pretty much a ruined weekend for him/her if they had planned to kick back and have some fun with their SG mates for example. You've mentioned that you've never been the target of a ban since '09. Well con-freaking-gratulations. You've never been once targetted by such abuse. No wonder you can be so smug and pretentious about it, and can afford to dismiss the complaints as baseless forum raging.
And even with all its flaws, it serves that purpose. Just this weekend, we had someone spamming the forums with CC scams and such and other ppl on the forums requesting a way to report them.... At least we have that ingame.
I think its reasonable to assume that the some of the people who got chat banned, were saying some inflammatory things (regardless of your intention). Yes, people can exploit the system if you ALLOW your self to be a target, but every system has its flaws.
And this shows your blatant ignorance. The report spam system is intended for only RMT sellers, and not to be used as a moderation tool for any other purpose. It's definitely not for someone to shut another person up just because they didn't like what they were saying.
Things like that can not only compromise a single players security, but also the security of the whole game. We already got hacked once, an ill bet that the same ppl complaining about the chat ban will be the 1st to throw Cryptic under the buss if we get hacked again because we removed the tool that keeps CC scammers and phishing ppl out of zone chat.
Cryptic's servers getting hacked has something to do with CC scammers? Whut?
WHUT?
This proves to me that you don't really have a clue what you're supporting.
EDIT: And in case you're wondering, a hacker seeks out vulnerabilities in a server's security system and that's where the compromise happens. It has nuts to do with the use of stolen credit card info. And if by "CC" you really meant "Costume Contest", I will epic facepalm.
The criminal justice system is also flawed but that doesn't mean its logical or beneficial to just get rid of it all together.
If you're going to use real-world analogies, at least use one that's logically-sound and comparable. The way people are abusing chat-ban right now is similar to someone carrying out vigilante justice against another person without relying on authorities to intervene and without having a care for the criminal justice system.
If someone feels that another person is being a troll who is breaking game rules or being an unsavory person in general then they're free to get a moral victory without needing to report the incident to the GMs which should be the proper thing to do. That's that true flaw of the system.
Don't worry, Brian. Your silence is coming, as is mine. Vizzone has been silenced twice, and I can personally verify that he doesn't spam by any rational definition of the term. He does chat in character as Lee Tosi, a narcissistic sociopath with serious self-esteem issues and a pet Teleiosaur - Lee's fun. Apparently, somebody took exception to his chatting in character, and has twice used the autochatban to shut him down.
Ok, I wasn't going to comment until I read that. Apparently not everyone agrees with "fun" or your "rational definition".
Fun and all, he does talk A LOT and sometimes it does grow stale and tiresome. Lectrohm getting shutdown is just someone(s) with sour grape syndrome getting revenge for some perceived slight in a CC. But I'm surprised Vizzone doesn't get shutdown more often tbh.
1) RPers complain that they are griefed a lot, doing it in zone chat is painting a big ole target that says F with me please. You got griefed? This is my shocked face --->
2) Incessant RP in Zone chat is kinda rude, not everyone digs it. Maybe you should make a Lee Tosi channel and let those that want all-Lee, all-the-time join for the full-on Lee Tosi Experience and avoid zone chat? Cause its pretty obvious Cryptic isn't going to do anything about chat-banning.
I dont agree with this ^^^ part, simply because those who don't dig it can /ignore.
not everyone digs it. Maybe you should make a Lee Tosi channel and let those that want all-Lee, all-the-time join for the full-on Lee Tosi Experience and avoid zone chat? Cause its pretty obvious Cryptic isn't going to do anything about chat-banning.
I, reluctantly, agree with this ^^^ part because /ignore has the same impact as report spam. Yes, I get to decide what you an adult (hopefully) are allowed to read. Any nine year old with a grudge gets to decide what YOU a paying customer are and are not allowed to read in game.
I would dearly love to be able to ignore people whose messages I do not wish to see, without stealing part of the game from them.
Adopting the role of backseat mod and trying to dictate how others should or should not use the zone chat does nothing to convince people of anything. All it does it makes you look as obnoxious as the person whom you're accusing of it.
Adopting the role of backseat mod and trying to dictate how others should or should not use the zone chat does nothing to convince people of anything. All it does it makes you look as obnoxious as the person whom you're accusing of it.
Do keep in mind that there is a difference between dictating how others should/should not use zone chat, and making suggestions on how to avoid being chat banned.
Do keep in mind that there is a difference between dictating how others should/should not use zone chat, and making suggestions on how to avoid being chat banned.
Well I agree for the most part, except for the claim of RP in zone chat being rude. If I tell someone "hey you shouldn't do what you're doing on zone chat because I think it's rude, go make a channel of your own for it", that reads as backseat modding to me and hardly a suggestion to avoiding the chat-ban.
I dont agree with this ^^^ part, simply because those who don't dig it can /ignore.
Just because something can be avoided doesn't lessen the impact of the original act. It shouldn't have to be ignored in the 1st place. Plus /ignore causes bans so....
If I constantly "curse like a sailor" or belittle other players chats, does it make my actions any less rude?
Well I agree for the most part, except for the claim of RP in zone chat being rude. If I tell someone "hey you shouldn't do what you're doing on zone chat because I think it's rude, go make a channel of your own for it", that reads as backseat modding to me and hardly a suggestion to avoiding the chat-ban.
If not everybody wants to see something and I do it anyway, how is that NOT rude?
Just because something can be avoided doesn't lessen the impact of the original act. It shouldn't have to be ignored in the 1st place. Plus /ignore causes bans so....
If I constantly "curse like a sailor" or belittle other players chats, does it make my actions any less rude?
Not really, just avoidable.
Belittling others, and cursing like a sailor are both violations of the rules of the game. Using zone chat for, well, chatting is not.
Using the service for which he has paid, in accord with the rules governing the service, in a fashion that has no impact on others unless they choose to be impacted is not at all inappropriate.
Or, does the fact that I dislike the Heavy Weapon set, find its use in my presence unpleasant, mean that it is rude for others to use it ?
Are people being rude by creating furry characters ?
Are they being rude by creating Demon/Vampire/Succubi/etc ?
I would dearly love to be able to ignore people whose messages I do not wish to see, without stealing part of the game from them.
Some people make my ignore list for saying something blatantly stupid or asking exorbitant prices for common items. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that does this.
I don't ignore people with the intent to punish, they're simply people I never want to deal with. If I'm not dealing with said persons, that tends to resolve everything but having to deal with certain folks who made the list for leeching in alerts.
I'm sure some folks deserve getting hit with a chat ban, of course. But the system as a whole is more troublesome as its worse. I'd rather see the random gold seller bot spam than have so many players abused by a system not intended to punish them in the first place.
Is this how you treat every one who respectfully offers a opinion different than yours?
I'm always the same person in-game and on the forums (ie treating people with respect regardless of how radical their views) maybe that's why I've never been chat banned.
I suspect unprovoked thinly veiled personal attacks and aggressive attitudes like this are what what hocofaisan was talking about here:
I still suspect there is more to all these stories.
When I play I chat in MC chat all the time. Never been banned once.
your basically demonstrating his argument.
P.S. Flaming some one isn't a good way to prove your right (even if you are in fact right). But it is a good way to make your self a target.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Is this how you treat every one who respectfully offers a opinion different than yours?
I'm always the same person in-game and on the forums (ie treating people with respect regardless of how radical their views) maybe that's why I've never been chat banned.
I'm sure it's also respectful to:
1. Trivalize someone being obviously victimized by an exploit of a system as "not being a big deal or "just an incovenience".
2. Also in turn, trivialize the affected and concerned people by saying they're dramatic and being forum ragers.
And you have the audacity to lecture me on how I should treat others, Mr. Pot.
You've never experienced having being the target of 24 hour chat-ban abuse, and yet you tell these people that it's "not a big deal". At the same time you boasted that you've never been chat-banned since '09. You were both being smug and pretentious. I'm making personal attacks? Nah, I think that was justified.
It was a cliche response I expected anyway, since you didn't actually bother to argue points.
I suspect unprovoked thinly veiled personal attacks and aggressive attitudes like this are what what hocofaisan was talking about here:
your basically demonstrating his argument.
P.S. Flaming some one isn't a good way to prove your right (even if you are in fact right). But it is a good way to make your self a target.
What, I can't point it out when someone's making obvious conspiracy theories with absolutely no proof to back them up?
I can't point out that publically stating that you've never been chat-ban at all is a potential invitation for it to happen either? Do you think it's also a smart thing to declare on the internet that you've never been hacked before?
The OP is an indirect accusation towards those targetted by such abuse as being people who may actually "deserve" it. And I'm making thinly veiled personal attacks?
I would dearly love to be able to ignore people whose messages I do not wish to see,
without stealing part of the game from them.
What?
/ignore (forum AND CO handles) counts towards the SAME counter for "chat banning" (in game?) (How the hell did they get the servers to talk to each other for THAT one?)
Can you provide an example of something that you can do in game that everybody wants to see ?
I am pretty sure that you cannot.
I know people who dont want to see:
People trading in Zone.
People conversing in Zone.
People RPing in Zone.
People asking questions in Zone.
People answering questions in Zone.
People telling jokes in Zone.
So it is rude to use Zone at all ?
I'm so going to sit in zone chat for a week /ignoring poeple, then clearing my /ignore list for seven days straight. (I wonder how many points i'd rack up)
1. Trivalize someone being obviously victimized by an exploit of a system as "not being a big deal or "just an incovenience".
2. Also in turn, trivialize the affected and concerned people by saying they're dramatic and being forum ragers.
I think im being misunderstood here. I never have been chat banned. But i also have never ignored some one or reported some one for any thing. I don't even know how to do so. I guess you could say that in general, i don't let things ppl say on the internet get to me. In general in RL im a pretty laid back person. So no, its not a big deal to me, but also nothing that goes on with CO can ever be a big deal to me. That's just who i am.
Just because i react to online events differently than you does not mean that im trivializing those that take these things seriously.
I acknowledged that this is a problem but i just feel that the emotional response to this issue is over blown.
I feel that the emotional intensity of the reaction to this issue can distract from and drowned out any validity of your points.
That's my opinion. I'm not obligated to join your rage and my choice not to do so does not make me a villain or justify me being flamed.
The OP is an indirect accusation towards those targeted by such abuse as being people who may actually "deserve" it. And I'm making thinly veiled personal attacks?
The OP didn't understand that the Chat ban function was only intended for real money related spamming and not flaming or being rude. Actually, before reading this thread i made the same assumption.
At any rate, i cant speak for the OP but i interpreted it as saying that some of the people who are getting chat banned may be making them selves targets by flaming or having a bad attitude, and it wasn't like they were minding they're own business and got chat banned out of no where.
My interpretation of the op is that those who flame people for no reason invite trouble (justified or not) and that's the part of the story that doesn't get told on the forums.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Just wanted to chip in my 2 cents:
I think the system is fine, if not actually good. The only thing I can think that would help is if it put spammers on "time out" first, like 15 minutes of ban, before doing the 24 hour ban.
I'm always saying stupid stuff in Zone chat and I've never been chat banned.
Just wanted to chip in my 2 cents:
I think the system is fine, if not actually good. The only thing I can think that would help is if it put spammers on "time out" first, like 15 minutes of ban, before doing the 24 hour ban.
I'm always saying stupid stuff in Zone chat and I've never been chat banned.
I would like to know how the system in its current, easily-exploitable state is actually "good." I'm very interested to read your reasons for thinking so.
Just wanted to chip in my 2 cents:
I think the system is fine, if not actually good. The only thing I can think that would help is if it put spammers on "time out" first, like 15 minutes of ban, before doing the 24 hour ban.
I'm always saying stupid stuff in Zone chat and I've never been chat banned.
Most likely the Griefers have not singled you out yet because it doesn't seem like a chat ban would absolutely ruin your day. I don't think I have been banned yet either. I could have and just didn't notice or something as I regularly go days without using in game chat. But not that I remember. Mostly because I tend to limit myself to small pieces of (usually) helpful advice or the occasional (sometimes) (kind of) (OK not really) funny comment.
.
.
.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
Comments
Yes, innocent people are often punished in the judicial system. But none are punished so for the purpose of showing the guilty that they could be punished as well.
But you are right about the solution for the chat banning. The lack of GMs to weed the innocent from the guilty is the problem. If somebody is innocent and griefed and muted, the system doesnt collect evidence to contrary. Its just an automated system.
My Characters on PRIMUS
Toons and costumes thread
@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
Seriously I am not joking here.
Ignore/report spam is busted , again need I remind some I got a 24 hour chat ban once even though I was away for 2 weeks and wasnt on so I couldnt have spammed zone.
So how did I get muted? The ignore feature on the old forums. Simply people who didnt like what I was saying ignored me, I can be brutal and not pull my punches so its rather understandable some peeps dont like my style. ( they are obviously idiots cause ima awesomejuice ) Now on the old forums the ignore on the forums is linked to the ignore in the game and that in turn linked to the report spam. Do you see what I am saying?
The ignore / spam button isnt working simply because ignore is somehow activating report spam. Thats a bug. Its that simple
Why the hell are we talking about people shooting each other to death and stuff?
And you lot call me strange @__@"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I get a small chuckle from it all.
My Characters on PRIMUS
Toons and costumes thread
@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
Thank you.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
in A I O N the report spam puts people automatic on ignore, what makes a lot sense.
Now since Cryptic always thinks a little "cryptic" they thought it makes sense to reverse that
so that when you ignore a person, that one is a spammer :biggrin:
And while, the criminal justice system is not perfect, it is in fact illegal to purposefully abuse to system. There are repercussions for said abuse. Repercussions that CO lacks in its chat ban system...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Then how about...
...This^ point, which doesn't limit itself to calling hocofaisan unAmerican or a coward? Is this a cop-out as well? Or did I actually try to explain exactly why "punishing" people in this case is not even necessary?
Which proves what? That people want a report function for the forums? Let me ask you something. Back when we used to have a report function at the forums, what did it do? How did it work?
Did it...
A) Auto-banned posters based on X number of reports without a mod ever having to even look at their post to determine whether or not an actual violation had been made? Or...
How exactly does a bunch of people talking trash or simply saying stuff in Zone chat (or any other type of chat for that matter) that some people may find objectionable--which is the real issue being discussed on this thread--compromise the security of even a single player?
And how exactly does the auto-ban function prevent the security of the game or a player's account from being compromised? Aren't we still capable of seeing anything anyone posts till they finally get chat-banned? And were is the mass of CC scammers that we need to chat-ban ANYONE that gets falsely reported just so that on the off chance that there is an actual scammer that they can possibly get reported as well? How does someone even hack the game or an account by posting stuff on chat?
Except we're not talking about any actual crimes. We're talking about people saying things on chat that others may find objectionable, and calling it a "crime" that somehow requires "punishment", neither of which is the case (that they are crimes or that they require punishment).
Also, since we're taking the silly nonsense that gets said in-game out of context and on to the next level and comparing it to actual crimes. There is a huge, MASSIVE difference, between people occassionally being punished by crimes they didn't commit, while the justice system (I pressume) punishes the actual guilty the extensive majority of the time, vs. people rutinely being punished for "crimes" they didn't commit just to ensure that on the off chance that they actually did commit those crimes, that they might be punished as well.
The system that we have in game =/= the real life justice system by ANY stretch (neither in concept, intend or actual practical functionality)
People do NOT routinely get punished for crimes they didn't commit in real life. They do all the time in game, since NONE of the players that get chat-banned are actual goldseller/scammers, which is the only analog to a "crime" in this case.
If you don't see what's wrong about putting the power to police in the hands of anonymous online users, I have no hope for you. The issue is not who is deserving or not, it's who is making the decision.
The only way to not be a potential target is to not use public chat at all.
I do not want Cryptic to eliminate the option to police chat. I want them to man up and do what every other game company does. Sadly, that will not happen.
Since quotes external to video games don't illustrate the real point, I've got a quote for you that is appropriate to the situation.
"Any system in an online game that can be abused will be abused." -- Scarlyng
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Note that I agree with your conclusion (punishing innocent people does not inspire respect for the law); I just think the Oscar Grant case isn't a good example.
not sure where your coming from here, i just said that the system, while flawed, serves its purpose too. You then go on to talk more about the flaws that we both already know about.
It doesn't and that isn't the point. I was simply pointing out that removing the system could cause security problems. Once again your fixating on a flaw in the system that we both already know exist and missing my main points.
Some people here are implying that innocent people falling victim to flaws in the system is grounds for the system being removed. I'm saying that removing the system completely can pose a security risk, not that the victims of the exploit are a security risk.
Are you saying that phishing is NOT a security risk?
I must not be communicating clearly...
One of my main points exactly what you just said. There are people in this thread comparing what is going on in this thread to civil liberty's issues.
Your right we aren't "talking about any actual crimes" and that's one of my main points. Being chat banned is unfortunate but not "srs biznis".
I dont think its serious because EVERY system has flaws, and if this flaw is fixed, people will just complain about another thing.
What i oppose most in this thread is the sensationalism. Don't take this personally but i think your sig is a good example of sensationalizing an issue. By that i mean that while the regen ban i unfortunate, its not as serious or malicious as kidnapping children in the night.
Your right i was just trying to point out that just because a system is flawed does not mean that it needs to be completely removed.
I completely disagree with this but that's another topic.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
You make it sound like im advocating censorship of the internet. Im not saying that there isnt any thing wrong with the exploit but: Bingo.
This is basically a fact of life. No one to be mad at, nothing to be upset about. no reason to "loose hope".
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Somehow someone will figure out that all the chat bans were caused by G W Bush if this thread keeps going the way its going.
Its just a broken mute button that greifers use to annoy people.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Studies such as this are frequently cited in arguments against the death penalty (I am expressing neither support nor condemnation for the death penalty here).
Those quotes were written by people commenting on the exercise of power in the broadest general sense. Though they were not specifically, obviously, referring to video games, they were referring to situations where those in a position of authority, from which they might condemn members of a community, must choose between allowing the guilty to go unpunished rather than punish the innocent.
The only one of the three being specific, rather than speaking in general philosophical terms, was Blackstone as he was commenting specifically on English legal precedent. Even he espoused the concept as having broader merit because he believed that the English precedent arose out of the recognition of a greater truth.
The situations and context these men spoke of were the inherent wrongness of governing bodies punishing the innocent members of a community in order to capture the guilty. Not at all out of context from what we are seeing here.
Isnt that big of a deal to YOU.
Denial of a paid for service without grounds might be a bigger deal to others. If you are someone for whom RP is a primary means of playing the game, or someone for whom hosting Costume Contests is a primary reason for playing the game, you would be essentially losing access to the game.
For example, if other players had the ability to deny you the ability to actually play the game. You know fight bad guys, PvP perhaps, do missions,whatever, but you were allowed to RP or hold CCs, would it bother you ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Exactly. Monitor it or get rid of it. And they already said they wont get rid of it.
My Characters on PRIMUS
Toons and costumes thread
@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
I've seen the incident from multiple angles. Mr Grant was not resisting arrest. I personally do not find the tazer argument to be persuasive. Either Mehserle doesn't keep his gun's safety turned on, or he did it intentionally because he would have had to manually flip the safety. I'd personally like to ask him which it is, is he grossly incompetent, or a murderer?
The reason I use the example of Oscar Grant is because he wasn't doing anything to warrant being shot OR tazered. The police lost control of the situation, and then lost control of the city all because one cop lost control of his mental faculties...
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
I'm with you on this.
I find it ironic that the zaneyest person on the forums has the most mature response to today's flavor of the month CO forum drama.
To the rest of you who want to rage about this and talk like CO forum drama is in the same scale as Ben Franklen be my guest.
Its your prerogative if you want to raise your blood pressure over nothing.
Im out of this thread.
/e chucks deuces
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
"Guess the cops didnt like getting chat spammed" Puts on glasses:cool: walks off to the left... YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!! \o/
*Cue opening scene with Grond on a Air boat*
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I completely agree that no system is perfect.
But we have a system where the problem has been identified and where solutions to this problem are known and implementable. Decision to punish those innocents when you have the ability to not do so, but are unwilling to enact it, is very different than lacking omniscience.
What is really gained by allowing person X to deny person Y access to aspects of the game because he disagrees with Y's opinions on Woverine's merit as a character ?
Shift's of GM's are not needed. Someone advertising a costume contest or saying that they do not like Wolverine does not need a GM to respond. Harsh language, words that are somehow harmful to you...ignore the poster and problem solved. No one has to read chat that they find objectionable for whatever reason. Ignore doesnt have to deny anyone access to the service.
The difference between modern judicial systems and what we have here is that the judicial system exists to try to ensure that the guilty are punished while protecting the innocent. Such spend billions of dollars attempting to ensure the guilt of the accused before punishment is assigned.
What we have here is a system designed to punish the innocent if used as intended.
Kind of an important distinction. A system that attempts, to the best of its ability, to punish only the guilty, and a system that targets the innocent are very very different.
This makes me really sad.
The inability to recognize that scale of impact does not determine the value of justice. The belief that this is about, "forum drama," rather than the idea that innocent people should not be singled out for punishment, regardless of the scale of the punishment. The belief that if the punishment doesn't affect oneself its impact upon others is inconsequential.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Just this afternoon I had this conversation with a player in MC zone chat.
Me: I came here to Champs to buy Lucky Stars and chew bubble gum and I'm all out of Lucky Stars.
Other Player: Can I have some bubble gum?
Me: It's fruit stripe, the flave only lasts 5 seconds.
Other Player: If that's it then no.
It might not be the exact conversation but it's close.
A Month or so ago I had this one.
Me: Is it me or does the Annelid Horrors look like giant flapping @#!$&* flapping in the wind?
Other Player: And how dose that make you feel?
I would go on with this one but it gets pretty dirty after that.
The point is I do this almost all the time with the witty and weird stuff. I have not once been reported for spamming. Now I'm sure there is a small number of players who have been silenced wrongfully by a player with a "small pants syndrome" attitude because they got beat by the other in PVP. As for the others claiming wrongful silence, they may just be crying for attention.
For the RPer's who get silenced you should just create your own secret channel. Tell no one about it except thoughts you role-play with.
The real face behind my Champs heroes. Enjoy my awesome beard.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For that matter, the discussion of "personal opinions of fictional characters" is based on the actual example of Smackwell, who said in chat, once, "Wolverine sucks!" Someone proceeded to whine about this in chat, and use the Report Spam function to shut Smacky's chat down for 24 hours.
Just because you've been lucky so far does not invalidate the examples above. Just because the last remaining Wallenda hasn't fallen to his death during his high-wire act, doesn't mean that others haven't either, you know?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Makes it seem like a troll.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I didn't even use an exclamation point!
And Brian, just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't. It's quite possible that you're just one /ignore away from being chat banned. Honestly, you probably got a few for that annelid comment.
And I am sure I am on a few peoples ignore list. I usally do this type of stuff when I see some players having a peeing contest with one another. I try to calm it down with some dry humor.
The real face behind my Champs heroes. Enjoy my awesome beard.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I still suspect there is more to all these stories.
When I play I chat in MC chat all the time. Never been banned once.
Neither had anyone else before they received their (first) chatban.
"it hasnt happened to me," (yet) is not an indication that something doesn't happen.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Or: If I stick my head in the sand I see no problems.
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Speak for yourself.
A 24 hour denial to using the chat isn't a small thing. If the player getting chat-banned is a weekend player then that's pretty much a ruined weekend for him/her if they had planned to kick back and have some fun with their SG mates for example. You've mentioned that you've never been the target of a ban since '09. Well con-freaking-gratulations. You've never been once targetted by such abuse. No wonder you can be so smug and pretentious about it, and can afford to dismiss the complaints as baseless forum raging.
And this shows your blatant ignorance. The report spam system is intended for only RMT sellers, and not to be used as a moderation tool for any other purpose. It's definitely not for someone to shut another person up just because they didn't like what they were saying.
Cryptic's servers getting hacked has something to do with CC scammers? Whut?
WHUT?
This proves to me that you don't really have a clue what you're supporting.
EDIT: And in case you're wondering, a hacker seeks out vulnerabilities in a server's security system and that's where the compromise happens. It has nuts to do with the use of stolen credit card info. And if by "CC" you really meant "Costume Contest", I will epic facepalm.
If you're going to use real-world analogies, at least use one that's logically-sound and comparable. The way people are abusing chat-ban right now is similar to someone carrying out vigilante justice against another person without relying on authorities to intervene and without having a care for the criminal justice system.
If someone feels that another person is being a troll who is breaking game rules or being an unsavory person in general then they're free to get a moral victory without needing to report the incident to the GMs which should be the proper thing to do. That's that true flaw of the system.
I got this tinfoil hat that you can wear.
EDIT: And FYI, arrogantly claiming that you've never been banned once like what that Sigma7 genius has done is an outright invitation for it.
Jenny why do you do this to yourself?
Ok, I wasn't going to comment until I read that. Apparently not everyone agrees with "fun" or your "rational definition".
Fun and all, he does talk A LOT and sometimes it does grow stale and tiresome. Lectrohm getting shutdown is just someone(s) with sour grape syndrome getting revenge for some perceived slight in a CC. But I'm surprised Vizzone doesn't get shutdown more often tbh.
1) RPers complain that they are griefed a lot, doing it in zone chat is painting a big ole target that says F with me please. You got griefed? This is my shocked face --->
2) Incessant RP in Zone chat is kinda rude, not everyone digs it. Maybe you should make a Lee Tosi channel and let those that want all-Lee, all-the-time join for the full-on Lee Tosi Experience and avoid zone chat? Cause its pretty obvious Cryptic isn't going to do anything about chat-banning.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
I would dearly love to be able to ignore people whose messages I do not wish to see, without stealing part of the game from them.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Do keep in mind that there is a difference between dictating how others should/should not use zone chat, and making suggestions on how to avoid being chat banned.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Well I agree for the most part, except for the claim of RP in zone chat being rude. If I tell someone "hey you shouldn't do what you're doing on zone chat because I think it's rude, go make a channel of your own for it", that reads as backseat modding to me and hardly a suggestion to avoiding the chat-ban.
Just because something can be avoided doesn't lessen the impact of the original act. It shouldn't have to be ignored in the 1st place. Plus /ignore causes bans so....
If I constantly "curse like a sailor" or belittle other players chats, does it make my actions any less rude?
Not really, just avoidable.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
If not everybody wants to see something and I do it anyway, how is that NOT rude?
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
You're speaking for everybody now? You believe your views represent the exact opinions of everyone else?
There you go, backseat modding.
Belittling others, and cursing like a sailor are both violations of the rules of the game. Using zone chat for, well, chatting is not.
Using the service for which he has paid, in accord with the rules governing the service, in a fashion that has no impact on others unless they choose to be impacted is not at all inappropriate.
Or, does the fact that I dislike the Heavy Weapon set, find its use in my presence unpleasant, mean that it is rude for others to use it ?
Are people being rude by creating furry characters ?
Are they being rude by creating Demon/Vampire/Succubi/etc ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Some people make my ignore list for saying something blatantly stupid or asking exorbitant prices for common items. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that does this.
I don't ignore people with the intent to punish, they're simply people I never want to deal with. If I'm not dealing with said persons, that tends to resolve everything but having to deal with certain folks who made the list for leeching in alerts.
I'm sure some folks deserve getting hit with a chat ban, of course. But the system as a whole is more troublesome as its worse. I'd rather see the random gold seller bot spam than have so many players abused by a system not intended to punish them in the first place.
Is this how you treat every one who respectfully offers a opinion different than yours?
I'm always the same person in-game and on the forums (ie treating people with respect regardless of how radical their views) maybe that's why I've never been chat banned.
I suspect unprovoked thinly veiled personal attacks and aggressive attitudes like this are what what hocofaisan was talking about here: your basically demonstrating his argument.
P.S. Flaming some one isn't a good way to prove your right (even if you are in fact right). But it is a good way to make your self a target.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Can you provide an example of something that you can do in game that everybody wants to see ?
I am pretty sure that you cannot.
I know people who dont want to see:
People trading in Zone.
People conversing in Zone.
People RPing in Zone.
People asking questions in Zone.
People answering questions in Zone.
People telling jokes in Zone.
So it is rude to use Zone at all ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I'm sure it's also respectful to:
1. Trivalize someone being obviously victimized by an exploit of a system as "not being a big deal or "just an incovenience".
2. Also in turn, trivialize the affected and concerned people by saying they're dramatic and being forum ragers.
And you have the audacity to lecture me on how I should treat others, Mr. Pot.
You've never experienced having being the target of 24 hour chat-ban abuse, and yet you tell these people that it's "not a big deal". At the same time you boasted that you've never been chat-banned since '09. You were both being smug and pretentious. I'm making personal attacks? Nah, I think that was justified.
It was a cliche response I expected anyway, since you didn't actually bother to argue points.
What, I can't point it out when someone's making obvious conspiracy theories with absolutely no proof to back them up?
I can't point out that publically stating that you've never been chat-ban at all is a potential invitation for it to happen either? Do you think it's also a smart thing to declare on the internet that you've never been hacked before?
The OP is an indirect accusation towards those targetted by such abuse as being people who may actually "deserve" it. And I'm making thinly veiled personal attacks?
/ignore (forum AND CO handles) counts towards the SAME counter for "chat banning" (in game?)
(How the hell did they get the servers to talk to each other for THAT one?) I'm so going to sit in zone chat for a week /ignoring poeple, then clearing my /ignore list for seven days straight.
(I wonder how many points i'd rack up)
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
Just because i react to online events differently than you does not mean that im trivializing those that take these things seriously.
I acknowledged that this is a problem but i just feel that the emotional response to this issue is over blown.
I feel that the emotional intensity of the reaction to this issue can distract from and drowned out any validity of your points.
That's my opinion. I'm not obligated to join your rage and my choice not to do so does not make me a villain or justify me being flamed. The OP didn't understand that the Chat ban function was only intended for real money related spamming and not flaming or being rude. Actually, before reading this thread i made the same assumption.
At any rate, i cant speak for the OP but i interpreted it as saying that some of the people who are getting chat banned may be making them selves targets by flaming or having a bad attitude, and it wasn't like they were minding they're own business and got chat banned out of no where.
My interpretation of the op is that those who flame people for no reason invite trouble (justified or not) and that's the part of the story that doesn't get told on the forums.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I think the system is fine, if not actually good. The only thing I can think that would help is if it put spammers on "time out" first, like 15 minutes of ban, before doing the 24 hour ban.
I'm always saying stupid stuff in Zone chat and I've never been chat banned.
Yet.
Host a costume contest sometime.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I would like to know how the system in its current, easily-exploitable state is actually "good." I'm very interested to read your reasons for thinking so.
Most likely the Griefers have not singled you out yet because it doesn't seem like a chat ban would absolutely ruin your day. I don't think I have been banned yet either. I could have and just didn't notice or something as I regularly go days without using in game chat. But not that I remember. Mostly because I tend to limit myself to small pieces of (usually) helpful advice or the occasional (sometimes) (kind of) (OK not really) funny comment.
.
.
.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time