Silver Hawks, Thundercats, I'm pretty sure He-Man did use a vehicle in combat on rare occasion as well. Then as we slide down the "superhero" ladder to the "general animation" fare, we can't forget Speed Racer, and both Factions of Transformers, who not only frequently did battle in their vehicle modes, but actually rode inside each other, and did battle in giant spacecraft as well. The Go-Bots too (I shudder to mention them), Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet, etc etc. And then of course there's M.A.N.T.I.S., and Michael Knight (Knight Rider), who I'd argue was just as much a superhero as Batman. (minus the cape).
While Batman is certainly well known for his 'mobile, 'boat, 'cycle, and 'jet, that's in part due to his tragic lack of actual superpowers, and the deep pockets of Bruce Wayne to be able to afford such marvelous toys.. It's true that those vehicles do make prominent appearances in the series, but most often, the "bat* vehicle" was merely used as a travel gimmick, or a convenient bulletproof cover, and only in rare situations did the vehicle itself participate in combat. There are plenty of examples when the Batmobile or Bat Jet were used in a scene or story.. but almost without exception, it's Batman's wits, the occasionally gadget from the belt, and his right hook, that end up winning the day.
The fact that a vehicle's combat abilities are less than some builds is not particularly relevant to a discussion of its travel speed capabilities because you are generally not fighting when traveling over distances.
A vehicle user has the option to switch between character combat mode and vehicle long distance transport mode as desired and as appropriate to the situation. No regular travel power provides such an advantage.
The damage output of the vehicles is literally infinitely higher while flying than it is on two of my three main characters so a claim of gimped status for the vehicles is fairly questionable...how much damage can your pure melee toon do while flying 50-100' over his targets ? Mine cannot fly that far over a target and do any damage at all. These vehicles wouldnt gimp the character, they would give him options that he doesnt currently have.
Will we be gimped as hell in combat with the vehicles once the power customization aspect is complete ?
Are the vehicles offensive capabilities gimped compared to ATs ? How does the Mind's DPS compare to one of these vehicles for example ?
You say, "you get what you pay for with all the extra TP's," my question is, what paid TP's give you a faster form of transport than anything else in the game AND additional attack powers ?
You know, I can't answer this. All I can say is that my point has been for a while- not everyone is suited for this.
As I've seen so far, it matches a 'Become' device with its advantages, so there's the thing- it's not like the idea is entirely new. This one just moves faster.
I can't help it you chose to make a melee toon. Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. There are hundreds of toons that have advantages over mine, and I can't blame anyone but me because I chose what my character can or cannot do based upon how I spent his points. If you don't like it, I dunno... just suck it up and deal with it, I guess. Hold out for something better. Don't ask for something to be gimped on something as trivial as speed, please.
Don't ask for something to be gimped on something as trivial as speed, please.
I havent. I am asking for equal treatment between the various options.
Not once have I requested (nor have I seen even a single person make the request) that vehicles offer less than what travel options have.
You, however are asking that other travel options be less than your desired option.
So I will return your request,
Dont ask for something to be gimped on something as trivial as speed, please.
PS: If speed is trivial to you, why do you care if others are requesting that vehicles not be given a speed advantage over every other option in the game ?
I havent. I am asking for equal treatment between the various options.
Not once have I requested (nor have I seen even a single person make the request) that vehicles offer less than what travel options have.
You, however are asking that other travel options be less than your desired option.
So I will return your request,
Dont ask for something to be gimped on something as trivial as speed, please.
PS: If speed is trivial to you, why do you care if others are requesting that vehicles not be given a speed advantage over every other option in the game ?
All right, I've pretty much determined you're just going to keep this going and going. I think I made my point clear. I'm not going to smear any more of this nonsense on other threads. I have asked for NO changes at all, to anything. If you're wanting 'fair and equal treatment between options', you need to go WAY back and examine TONS of this game and just understand... no. It doesn't always happen that way.
Like I said, if you don't like the vehicles, don't get one. Vote with your wallet. People have been pleading for this. As most people see it, it has very few advantages over normal travel powers- speed being the only one I see, and I suppose ranged attacks (that are very weak) if you don't have any of those.
You're asking to make this entire thing nearly useless.
People are complaining/whining/crying that this is useless to their concept.
You're asking that it become more useless to more people, because 'you don't want one'.
You're asking to make this entire thing nearly useless.
No I am not. Read my posts again.
People are complaining/whining/crying that this is useless to their concept.
Ive not seen this. I have seen people express a preference that one concept not be made superior to others
You're asking that it become more useless to more people, because 'you don't want one'.
Ive said nothing of the sort, and would be appalled if vehicles, particularly as they seem likely to be a paid for item, were useless. In fact I have specifically stated that these will work very well for some of my characters. You might want to consider avoiding strawman arguing, or outright lying, in a situation where all of the posts are present for examination.
You ask that it not have an advantage over others. Its ONE significant advantage is the one thing you have a problem with. Speed. I'm saying 'no, keep it'. Take this away- it's really just a lazy become device with no advantages at all for a significant number of people (unless the vehicle PvP is fun, which I hope it is).
You keep saying 'don't give X player and advantage over Y player'. You CHOOSE your hero. If another has an advantage over you, this is your fault. You chose it. Don't eat from the toilet and complain that your food tastes like crap.
I think the speed is a GREAT thing, something that will give some of my toons a fantastic advantage over their standard travel powers. I CHOSE to give my main acrobatics and swinging. This is a GREAT advantage to get from one end of the map.
You keep going on and on about this, and you aren't suggesting anything else.
Like I said, if you don't want it, don't buy it and hold out. It is as simple as that. I don't buy into the things I don't want.
You're REALLY complaining about someone being faster than you, when they sell catalysts on the AH? Where are your complaints about that? Why not subscribe to the simple concept of 'if people want that advantage and are willing to pay money for it, let 'em have it'. This isn't, by any means, a gamebreaking advantage.
While I have no problem with the existence of vehicles, they seem over-tuned, at least in this first push.
Vehicles as alternative travel powers; yes
Heroes being able to fight from vehicles; yes
Vehicles being a lot faster than other travel powers; no
Vehicles doing as much or more damage out of the box as the most optimized build; no
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
I hope that they are easier to control when its finished. ( Even though it would be suuuper funny watching abunch of planes fly around like the pilots are drunk.)
I hope that they are easier to control when its finished. ( Even though it would be suuuper funny watching abunch of planes fly around like the pilots are drunk.)
Id actually like to see something more akin to STO. Considering they have more then implied that they are borrowing strongly from that system.
Im not sure if the OP made the video. But the video was clearly done to highlight the gaffs in vehicles. All the emphasis on flying sideways, crashing, ect. As much as the OP was trying to be subtle in his "these thing suck" post. The movement, as is, is a tad immersion breaking.
STO gives you a throttle. You can only move forward, backward, or be at a dead stop. You couldn't move sideways, you could only turn. And the turn radius is a function of vehicle preformance.
I think that factor is the missing part to balance these things out. Especially with the speed issue. The faster you go, the wider your turn radius. Go fast enough and you might need all of ren center just to turn around.
If you wanna turn tight, dodge down the streets. You'll have to throttle well back. Perhaps even slower then other player based travel powers.
The Aks cryptic blog reads as follows. Snips and emphasis mine, obviously
In short, Vehicles should be considered a whole new animal with new powers, abilities and options and will ultimately be supported by a new system for customization as well as unique content.
Vehicles will be rolling out in two distinct phases. In phase I, the sleek Nighthawk prototype vehicles will debut! These vehicles will feature unique powers, mechanics and handling. They will each come standard with a specific range of powers and abilities to complement their respective roles.
Phase II later this fall will introduce a full, new system for customizing Vehicles, supported by specific content, new Vehicles and items. This system will allow players to slot and swap gear and items, from weapons to support systems, in order to customize their Vehicle chassis of choice with any combination of powers!
As the full system comes together over the coming months, it will be available on the PTS for testing and feedback.
----snip----
The short answer is players will have plenty of choice when it comes to Vehicles. First, players will be free to fly their Vehicles in any outdoor, open Zone as they choose.
Later in the fall, when the full Vehicle system debuts we?ll launch some very cool Vehicle-only PVE maps as well - things like dog fights in the sky vs. waves of enemy attacks, or assaults where vehicles target a large target or horde.
Finally, future Epic Invasion maps would be intended and balanced for Vehicles, but they would not be strictly required. At least, that is the plan!
The system as seems to be planned, the future system not the little Hawkwing devices being tested on the pts, is something similar to what STO has. It being a 'different animal entirely' is good news in my book.
While I have no problem with the existence of vehicles, they seem over-tuned, at least in this first push.
Vehicles as alternative travel powers; yes
Heroes being able to fight from vehicles; yes
Vehicles being a lot faster than other travel powers; no
Vehicles doing as much or more damage out of the box as the most optimized build; no
Agree, if a vehicle user can have two TPs as well, but I don't think you're advocating them not any way
Agree.
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this third one.
I think Vehicles should definitely be faster than something like acrobatics, swinging and ice slide. But then again there are in fact TPs that are faster than all three of those.
I can sympathize with men of steel and space cops, however I think the vehicles should be fairly fast. At least as fast R3 Jetpack...or jet boots...I forget which is faster, for jets at least, because the little preview we have is a jet after all . Someone offered the middle ground of the boost to greatly improve the speed, but have it consume energy. The boost would make it extremely quick, heck might even hear the pop of breaking the sound barrier. With the reload mechanic it really would not be an issue.
I think it is worth iterating that the Hawkwing device is not an entire preview of what the whole system will be like. For all intents and purposes The Hawkwing IS a become device. The Vehicle System (tm, I'm calling it now ) itself though, as according to Cryptic's plan, or at least what can be divined from the info they gave us, is going to actually going to take effort for the player to 'balance' just as he would have to 'balance' the build he makes for his Character when just running around fightin' crime.
Id actually like to see something more akin to STO. Considering they have more then implied that they are borrowing strongly from that system.
Im not sure if the OP made the video. But the video was clearly done to highlight the gaffs in vehicles. All the emphasis on flying sideways, crashing, ect. As much as the OP was trying to be subtle in his "these thing suck" post. The movement, as is, is a tad immersion breaking.
STO gives you a throttle. You can only move forward, backward, or be at a dead stop. You couldn't move sideways, you could only turn. And the turn radius is a function of vehicle preformance.
I think that factor is the missing part to balance these things out. Especially with the speed issue. The faster you go, the wider your turn radius. Go fast enough and you might need all of ren center just to turn around.
If you wanna turn tight, dodge down the streets. You'll have to throttle well back. Perhaps even slower then other player based travel powers.
This is a point that deserves consideration. Have a wonder ball
As long as my vehicle using characters dont have the ability to get to their mission locations faster than my non vehicle using characters, and dont have access to content that my non vehicle using characters lack, I am very happy to see this addition to the game.
I have /signed more suggestions for vehicles in CO than I can recall. Fingers are crossed that it is provided as an option for those characters for whom it fits, without giving them an advantage over those for whom it won't.
They already said they made maps just for Vehicles .. so why we all wait for new Zones
we get some .. but only for Vehicles :rolleyes:
And then of course there's M.A.N.T.I.S., and Michael Knight (Knight Rider), who I'd argue was just as much a superhero as Batman. (minus the cape).
Haha .. i already mentioned Michael Knight before .. but more just as a Joke since if we
now call him a superhero then everyone who can sleep in a car is a Super Hero .
I think Vehicles should definitely be faster than something like acrobatics, swinging and ice slide. But then again there are in fact TPs that are faster than all three of those.
I can sympathize with men of steel and space cops, however I think the vehicles should be fairly fast. At least as fast R3 Jetpack...or jet boots...I forget which is faster, for jets at least, because the little preview we have is a jet after all . Someone offered the middle ground of the boost to greatly improve the speed, but have it consume energy. The boost would make it extremely quick, heck might even hear the pop of breaking the sound barrier. With the reload mechanic it really would not be an issue.
I think it is worth iterating that the Hawkwing device is not an entire preview of what the whole system will be like. For all intents and purposes The Hawkwing IS a become device. The Vehicle System (tm, I'm calling it now ) itself though, as according to Cryptic's plan, or at least what can be divined from the info they gave us, is going to actually going to take effort for the player to 'balance' just as he would have to 'balance' the build he makes for his Character when just running around fightin' crime.
I agree with you on the vehicle speed thing,but its designed to be faster than most TPs,so it would need to be faster than jet boots,jetpack,superspeed,etc. at R3.I know that some superheroes don't even need vehicles but they aren't MEANT for them,they are mean't for the soldiers,vigilantes,and heroes with no powers.Now if they were SLOWER than superspeed or jet boots,then why would you take them,there is no advantage in taking a slow vehicle.As for the matter of DPS on them,They have roles,you expect them not to live up to them?
The DPS vehicle is also mean't to deal damage and put high DPS out there,just like the tank and healers are expected to pull aggro,heal and debuff.
Haha .. i already mentioned Michael Knight before .. but more just as a Joke since if we
now call him a superhero then everyone who can sleep in a car is a Super Hero .
Well, anyone who can sleep in a car with a fully-functional AI that can drive itself, is completely bulletproof, has a top speed of 300 mph, and mounts a laser under the hood...
As for the handling in the video, it might have been better if he hadn't chosen to try to fly around at full speed inside MC while the camera was at an odd angle, apparently chosen either to try to make the little jet look good or make the handling look bad.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yeah um... how about avoiding breaking the game with overpowered vehicles everywhere? I mean when you start to eclipse the powers of the individual heroes with vehicles then why the hell even have powers at all? Make this into a flight simulator game then. (I'm being sarcastic do NOT do this FFS)
I thing the hype is starting to get out of control when vehicles become the most powerful thing in the game. This was the joke part of my PyroGX thread, since only one person (FlyingFinn) seems to have gotten the joke (the joke being that vehicles become ever more powerful until the game becomes Vehicles Online: Farm For All)
The fact that somebody even had to ask me if I was serious about giving a vehicle in Champions the ability to one-shot Mega D (who is a cosmic with over a million hit points) is just flat out distrubing.
I know super hero vehicles are awesome and all, but Superman could still wreck the Batmobile with ease. Keep they fan-base hysteria in check when talking about realistic game functionality.
No weapons systems, that's just a can of worms which will get out of control just like it did in the original Star Wars MMO (with players running around and punching AT-AT walkers to death).
Feel free to continue to point out the obvious however, if it makes you feel better.
Ok, I feel much better now.
I am, however, still hoping that one type of "vehicle" is a mount. After all, nothing says "super-hero" than riding a motorcycle into battle
...
Ok, "tokusatsu-hero", but you know what I mean!
All of what Sockmunkey said; really needs some basic physics. The controls on pts are fairly off-putting. Still, looking forward to the finished system.
a nice touch visually would be to put the thruster on the back (and maybe a smaller one underneath) on a V.T.O.L. like pivot piece. that way it makes the movement look all the more possible rather than seeing it in a constant forward thrust while moving backward. V.T.O.L. jets are way better in general so it would just be a nice thing to add on along with the better physics. I can't wait to see what the actual system will be like and how much customization they will have. Hopefully they don't cop out and make it as bad as the hideouts.
.Now if they were SLOWER than superspeed or jet boots,then why would you take them,there is no advantage in taking a slow vehicle.As for the matter of DPS on them,They have roles,you expect them not to live up to them?
The DPS vehicle is also mean't to deal damage and put high DPS out there,just like the tank and healers are expected to pull aggro,heal and debuff.
I'm actually all for making, this particular vehicle at least, and just as a template, jets about as fast a R3 Jeetboots/pack and giving the shift key a "boost" power that dramatically increases your speed at a cost of energy being drained as long as you hold down shift.
No what I AM saying is the System itself, not the device that is on PTS now, is going to have roles, but it isn't going to come in a prepackage like these devices on the PTS do. We're going to have to outfit it with things and tweak our own vehicles ,when the system itself comes out this fall, to determine its role. Similar with our own characters now. At least that is my understanding.
To those who have been testing this, how are you finding it balance wise?
As for vehicle-based zones, it makes sense to design some with vehicles in mind but i'd want them not to require vehicles though a totally airborne high-atmosphere map might require flight for understandable reasons and this could be worked around by having someone from until lending the hero a temporary jetpack or vehicle device.
___________________________________
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
I am, however, still hoping that one type of "vehicle" is a mount. After all, nothing says "super-hero" than riding a motorcycle into battle
...
Ok, "tokusatsu-hero", but you know what I mean!
You really need to let that one go. Its not in the cards. The only type of cycle that would be feasible would be a Tron style enclosed one.
There is no way they are going to have an object that alters your appearence to something else while still keeping a version of you attached to it. Its just not something they have the tech for.
There is no way they are going to have an object that alters your appearence to something else while still keeping a version of you attached to it. Its just not something they have the tech for.
First off,I would LOVE to see a tron bike here,just change the name around a bit,but it would be the best bike in CO....EVER!
Second:we kinda need to have open vehicles for some heroes,even a regular motorcycle would need to be in here.
They already said they made maps just for Vehicles .. so why we all wait for new Zones
we get some .. but only for Vehicles :rolleyes:
.
That is a far more valid point than some of your previous arguments on the topic (which I have already discussed). Everybody has been waiting for new zones to level in, and now the ones we get are more niche and geared to heroes that would use the vehicles.
On one hand, its nice to see something a little different. But on the other hand, it does leave out some peoples concepts. And since this game is, at least in my opinion, geared toward character concepts (whether you roleplay or not) it tends to leave the "super" heroes with no new content.
Am I happy to see the non powered vigilantes get some love? Absolutely. Do I think the way the vehicle system is being handled so far is the best way to go? Not entirely. Does it make a bit of difference what any of us think about it? Not by a long shot. They will tweak numbers based on PTS feedback, make adjustments here or there but the core system they have planned is the direction they want to take whether we all like it or not. It may sound cynical, but they will never be able to please everyone (thats just the nature of the MMO beast) so it is what it is.
That is a far more valid point than some of your previous arguments on the topic (which I have already discussed). Everybody has been waiting for new zones to level in, and now the ones we get are more niche and geared to heroes that would use the vehicles.
As far as i remember people always just wanted Vehicles as Travelpowers here, and not
all the bloat they try to make now from that. But instead of letting the world grow with time
like every other MMO Cryptic seems to like ex and hopp content that is fun to play for 2 days
and then already gets old and nobody plays it anymore when they have the next great idea.
And Vehicles are now just the new Alerts. And in 6 months we maybe get Space-Alerts
where everyone with a Vehicle can fight against a Death Star or whatever.
But god beware they actually give us a real new zone with questchains and so on.
As far as i remember people always just wanted Vehicles as Travelpowers here, and not
all the bloat they try to make now from that. But instead of letting the world grow with time
like every other MMO Cryptic seems to like ex and hopp content that is fun to play for 2 days
and then already gets old and nobody plays it anymore when they have the next great idea.
And Vehicles are now just the new Alerts. And in 6 months we maybe get Space-Alerts
where everyone with a Vehicle can fight against a Death Star or whatever.
But god beware they actually give us a real new zone with questchains and so on.
You know they've also stated a island of Dr. Destroyer,now named Destruga,may be in the works,as who knows,they may make TP replacers for those of us who have powers and don't need vehicles,in which we can traverse the vehicle only map and do quest and what not there.
You know they've also stated a island of Dr. Destroyer,now named Destruga,may be in the works,as who knows,they may make TP replacers for those of us who have powers and don't need vehicles,in which we can traverse the vehicle only map and do quest and what not there.
They also said we get a new quest chain in Wells Pass around a year ago .. and even that
hasn't been done since now .. and even isn't longer mentioned anywhere.
And all that is just in discussion .. forget it .. it was in discussion last year .. it is still in discussion now,
and i'm sure it will still be in discussion next year.
As far as i remember people always just wanted Vehicles as Travelpowers here, and not
all the bloat they try to make now from that. But instead of letting the world grow with time
like every other MMO Cryptic seems to like ex and hopp content that is fun to play for 2 days
and then already gets old and nobody plays it anymore when they have the next great idea.
And Vehicles are now just the new Alerts. And in 6 months we maybe get Space-Alerts
where everyone with a Vehicle can fight against a Death Star or whatever.
But god beware they actually give us a real new zone with questchains and so on.
I'm totally on board with you there. Vehicles as TPs is all anybody really wanted. Which they should have done and just give everybody a new zone. But they want to try all this new stuff, which can be commended and all, when instead should really focus on current issues and bugs with a little bit of fluff (like costume packs) thrown in once in awhile.
If they simply can't do what people wanted like Vehicles as TP where you can actually also
fight with your own powers, then a solution could simply have been that the Vehicles are
just a device TP .. so you travel with your device, but in combat it switches automatically
to your default TP .. so you don't have to waste your advantage points for a TP that is useless
in fight, like Batflight and you still can travel with your vehicle.
Only a single person understood the real reason behind this topic ... :rolleyes:
I made this video to show how boring that vehicle system is.
If you expect awesome vehicles like in GTA or swtor you will be disappointed.
Vehicles here are (at the moment) only "become devices" with the mechanics of the Hover Disc Travelpower.
And Vehicles are now just the new Alerts. And in 6 months we maybe get Space-Alerts
where everyone with a Vehicle can fight against a Death Star or whatever.
Since the vehicle system is inspired by STO's ships, I think the vehicle maps will be pretty much the same as the space maps there.
Only a single person understood the real reason behind this topic ... :rolleyes:
I made this video to show how boring that vehicle system is.
If you expect awesome vehicles like in GTA or swtor you will be disappointed.
Vehicles here are (at the moment) only "become devices" with the mechanics of the Hover Disc Travelpower.
Well the vehicles on pts right now are far different from what they are proposing, and is simply a rough preview. And this is internet, of course the thread is going to go way off the original topic lol.
Yepp .. also the thread would have been also as boring as the vehicles are :biggrin:
Im sure vehicles will lighten up after they add stuff like clown cars,flying chariots with wings,pogo sticks,bulls,Foxbatmobile,and of course mounts such as bulls.:biggrin:
I just hope the final vehicles get scaled up. It drove me crazy as a kid and still as a bigger kid that they don't make transformers figures to scale with each other. Why do they make deluxe dune buggies larger than tanks and semis?!
Any how bigger final vehicles are needed. I can only make so many robots that a flight mode.
And Vehicles are now just the new Alerts. And in 6 months we maybe get Space-Alerts where everyone with a Vehicle can fight against a Death Star or whatever.
YES! We can have an alert where a team fights off a giant Crystalline Entity that uses cheesy tactics and nerfs certain powers and....
Someone (can't remember who) mentioned getting a "Tron" bike ver. of a vehicle
Now THAT is a perfect example of what CO vehicles SHOULD BE :cool:
1:that was me
2:Glad to see someone else supports it,thought I'd be barraged with NOs and stuff when I said that,but seriously,it would be perfect for a 90s type costume set for vehicles,or just be plain awesome,because you cant get much cooler than a tron bike:cool:
But I will say this: Here you have THE WORST player base of all times. They wonder why devs don't communicate with them, it's because they WHINE about the stupidest things: "Boo-Hoo, my character doesn't use a vehicle! Where's my toy!"
So they're faster. SUCK IT. It's a new thing and I'm sick of all the crying by people who... I honestly can't for the life of me figure out why they're threatened by this. TP's have the ability to not be targeted in PvP- no one bitches about that. But here's this and they're throwing a fit.
Cryptic PWE would be wise to just go with the positive and only listen to the negative when it comes to SERIOUS balance issues or bugs. Otherwise, this spoiled and self-entitled fanbase will find a reason to cry about everything.
1. Every online community is like this. Actually, I'd say this one is better than most.
The difference is : HER powers .. not the Jets powers .. really so hard to understand the difference ?
my god dude, are you always this pessimistic and nit picky? The X men fought colossus galactus and a few others on the cartoon series by using straight up weaponry the X fighter has on board. And in a few parts where they went across space.
Batman is obvious.
Robin is the same.
Green Hornet, Duh.
Punisher, all day.
The Avengers have a jet.
Spawn can turn a motorcycle into a weaponized fortress plus anything else he touches.
Ghostriders Hellbike can spit fire and stab people.
Lobo, all day motorcycles.
The power rangers not only had vehicles with weapons on them, they had vehicles which could transform into a GIGANTIC SUPER ROBOT!
So..just because some of the heroes mentioned above aren't mentioned all the time in the mainstream does not mean that there are not superheroes with vehicles.
Cars, planes, motorcycles, its all there.
So..just because some of the heroes mentioned above aren't mentioned all the time in the mainstream does not mean that there are not superheroes with vehicles.
Cars, planes, motorcycles, its all there.
Agreed. Beldin gave off the impression earlier that 'if they don't have superpowers, they aren't superheroes' or something to that effect.
It would serve him and others with this mindset well to look back before the Silver Age and at the Golden Age heroes and Pulp Era heroes... many of which were little more than costumed vigilantes that had to rely on equipment like vehicles.
Let's be serious here. Why are we getting vehicles?
1. A portion of the player base has been asking for them almost since beta.
2. In a staff meeting, one of the Cryptic staff pointed out that the STO store is making money selling starships.
I still believe that vehicles should be a viable choice, not a wth, why would I use anything else? As this is the first pass, it's hard to tell what the final product will be like balance-wise, but the first pass is definitely over-tuned.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Let's be serious here. Why are we getting vehicles?
1. A portion of the player base has been asking for them almost since beta.
2. In a staff meeting, one of the Cryptic staff pointed out that the STO store is making money selling starships.
I still believe that vehicles should be a viable choice, not a wth, why would I use anything else? As this is the first pass, it's hard to tell what the final product will be like balance-wise, but the first pass is definitely over-tuned.
While vehicles are pretty good,the speed is insane,which is also good in my opinion,weapons loadout on them is decent,but if they're trying to sell this to the ENTIRE playerbase it won't work,for example,people care about concepts,which in most of them,they don't use vehicles a lot,so it only appeals to a small portion of the playerbase,also Im not saying they are bad,they just don't fit alot of concepts,also if they intend to sell them for as much as the catalyst rank things go for,they aren't doing to make a bunch off of that due to both its high price and low demand.
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If you're gonna go THERE...
Silver Hawks, Thundercats, I'm pretty sure He-Man did use a vehicle in combat on rare occasion as well. Then as we slide down the "superhero" ladder to the "general animation" fare, we can't forget Speed Racer, and both Factions of Transformers, who not only frequently did battle in their vehicle modes, but actually rode inside each other, and did battle in giant spacecraft as well. The Go-Bots too (I shudder to mention them), Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet, etc etc. And then of course there's M.A.N.T.I.S., and Michael Knight (Knight Rider), who I'd argue was just as much a superhero as Batman. (minus the cape).
While Batman is certainly well known for his 'mobile, 'boat, 'cycle, and 'jet, that's in part due to his tragic lack of actual superpowers, and the deep pockets of Bruce Wayne to be able to afford such marvelous toys.. It's true that those vehicles do make prominent appearances in the series, but most often, the "bat* vehicle" was merely used as a travel gimmick, or a convenient bulletproof cover, and only in rare situations did the vehicle itself participate in combat. There are plenty of examples when the Batmobile or Bat Jet were used in a scene or story.. but almost without exception, it's Batman's wits, the occasionally gadget from the belt, and his right hook, that end up winning the day.
You know, I can't answer this. All I can say is that my point has been for a while- not everyone is suited for this.
As I've seen so far, it matches a 'Become' device with its advantages, so there's the thing- it's not like the idea is entirely new. This one just moves faster.
I can't help it you chose to make a melee toon. Don't like it? Vote with your wallet. There are hundreds of toons that have advantages over mine, and I can't blame anyone but me because I chose what my character can or cannot do based upon how I spent his points. If you don't like it, I dunno... just suck it up and deal with it, I guess. Hold out for something better. Don't ask for something to be gimped on something as trivial as speed, please.
I havent. I am asking for equal treatment between the various options.
Not once have I requested (nor have I seen even a single person make the request) that vehicles offer less than what travel options have.
You, however are asking that other travel options be less than your desired option.
So I will return your request,
Dont ask for something to be gimped on something as trivial as speed, please.
PS: If speed is trivial to you, why do you care if others are requesting that vehicles not be given a speed advantage over every other option in the game ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
All right, I've pretty much determined you're just going to keep this going and going. I think I made my point clear. I'm not going to smear any more of this nonsense on other threads. I have asked for NO changes at all, to anything. If you're wanting 'fair and equal treatment between options', you need to go WAY back and examine TONS of this game and just understand... no. It doesn't always happen that way.
Like I said, if you don't like the vehicles, don't get one. Vote with your wallet. People have been pleading for this. As most people see it, it has very few advantages over normal travel powers- speed being the only one I see, and I suppose ranged attacks (that are very weak) if you don't have any of those.
You're asking to make this entire thing nearly useless.
People are complaining/whining/crying that this is useless to their concept.
You're asking that it become more useless to more people, because 'you don't want one'.
Responses above.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Again:
You ask that it not have an advantage over others. Its ONE significant advantage is the one thing you have a problem with. Speed. I'm saying 'no, keep it'. Take this away- it's really just a lazy become device with no advantages at all for a significant number of people (unless the vehicle PvP is fun, which I hope it is).
You keep saying 'don't give X player and advantage over Y player'. You CHOOSE your hero. If another has an advantage over you, this is your fault. You chose it. Don't eat from the toilet and complain that your food tastes like crap.
I think the speed is a GREAT thing, something that will give some of my toons a fantastic advantage over their standard travel powers. I CHOSE to give my main acrobatics and swinging. This is a GREAT advantage to get from one end of the map.
You keep going on and on about this, and you aren't suggesting anything else.
Like I said, if you don't want it, don't buy it and hold out. It is as simple as that. I don't buy into the things I don't want.
You're REALLY complaining about someone being faster than you, when they sell catalysts on the AH? Where are your complaints about that? Why not subscribe to the simple concept of 'if people want that advantage and are willing to pay money for it, let 'em have it'. This isn't, by any means, a gamebreaking advantage.
Vehicles as alternative travel powers; yes
Heroes being able to fight from vehicles; yes
Vehicles being a lot faster than other travel powers; no
Vehicles doing as much or more damage out of the box as the most optimized build; no
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Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
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Id actually like to see something more akin to STO. Considering they have more then implied that they are borrowing strongly from that system.
Im not sure if the OP made the video. But the video was clearly done to highlight the gaffs in vehicles. All the emphasis on flying sideways, crashing, ect. As much as the OP was trying to be subtle in his "these thing suck" post. The movement, as is, is a tad immersion breaking.
STO gives you a throttle. You can only move forward, backward, or be at a dead stop. You couldn't move sideways, you could only turn. And the turn radius is a function of vehicle preformance.
I think that factor is the missing part to balance these things out. Especially with the speed issue. The faster you go, the wider your turn radius. Go fast enough and you might need all of ren center just to turn around.
If you wanna turn tight, dodge down the streets. You'll have to throttle well back. Perhaps even slower then other player based travel powers.
The system as seems to be planned, the future system not the little Hawkwing devices being tested on the pts, is something similar to what STO has. It being a 'different animal entirely' is good news in my book.
Agree, if a vehicle user can have two TPs as well, but I don't think you're advocating them not any way
Agree.
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this third one.
I think Vehicles should definitely be faster than something like acrobatics, swinging and ice slide. But then again there are in fact TPs that are faster than all three of those.
I can sympathize with men of steel and space cops, however I think the vehicles should be fairly fast. At least as fast R3 Jetpack...or jet boots...I forget which is faster, for jets at least, because the little preview we have is a jet after all
I think it is worth iterating that the Hawkwing device is not an entire preview of what the whole system will be like. For all intents and purposes The Hawkwing IS a become device. The Vehicle System (tm, I'm calling it now
This is a point that deserves consideration. Have a wonder ball
They already said they made maps just for Vehicles .. so why we all wait for new Zones
we get some .. but only for Vehicles :rolleyes:
Haha .. i already mentioned Michael Knight before .. but more just as a Joke since if we
now call him a superhero then everyone who can sleep in a car is a Super Hero .
I agree with you on the vehicle speed thing,but its designed to be faster than most TPs,so it would need to be faster than jet boots,jetpack,superspeed,etc. at R3.I know that some superheroes don't even need vehicles but they aren't MEANT for them,they are mean't for the soldiers,vigilantes,and heroes with no powers.Now if they were SLOWER than superspeed or jet boots,then why would you take them,there is no advantage in taking a slow vehicle.As for the matter of DPS on them,They have roles,you expect them not to live up to them?
The DPS vehicle is also mean't to deal damage and put high DPS out there,just like the tank and healers are expected to pull aggro,heal and debuff.
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As for the handling in the video, it might have been better if he hadn't chosen to try to fly around at full speed inside MC while the camera was at an odd angle, apparently chosen either to try to make the little jet look good or make the handling look bad.
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Then these "Heroes" should also have 0 power and advantage points .. since .. yeah you
said it .. they have no powers :biggrin:
Seriously, you -really- want to get into this?
I thing the hype is starting to get out of control when vehicles become the most powerful thing in the game. This was the joke part of my PyroGX thread, since only one person (FlyingFinn) seems to have gotten the joke (the joke being that vehicles become ever more powerful until the game becomes Vehicles Online: Farm For All)
The fact that somebody even had to ask me if I was serious about giving a vehicle in Champions the ability to one-shot Mega D (who is a cosmic with over a million hit points) is just flat out distrubing.
I know super hero vehicles are awesome and all, but Superman could still wreck the Batmobile with ease. Keep they fan-base hysteria in check when talking about realistic game functionality.
No weapons systems, that's just a can of worms which will get out of control just like it did in the original Star Wars MMO (with players running around and punching AT-AT walkers to death).
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Ok, I feel much better now.
I am, however, still hoping that one type of "vehicle" is a mount. After all, nothing says "super-hero" than riding a motorcycle into battle
...
Ok, "tokusatsu-hero", but you know what I mean!
I'm actually all for making, this particular vehicle at least, and just as a template, jets about as fast a R3 Jeetboots/pack and giving the shift key a "boost" power that dramatically increases your speed at a cost of energy being drained as long as you hold down shift.
No what I AM saying is the System itself, not the device that is on PTS now, is going to have roles, but it isn't going to come in a prepackage like these devices on the PTS do. We're going to have to outfit it with things and tweak our own vehicles ,when the system itself comes out this fall, to determine its role. Similar with our own characters now. At least that is my understanding.
Well. This is all I have in response to this. Someone is just a sally sourpuss, or a gloomy Gus when it comes to badass normals. Its not for you.
Sorry ... i have no idea what that means. Are that persons or just words ?
As for vehicle-based zones, it makes sense to design some with vehicles in mind but i'd want them not to require vehicles though a totally airborne high-atmosphere map might require flight for understandable reasons and this could be worked around by having someone from until lending the hero a temporary jetpack or vehicle device.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
You really need to let that one go. Its not in the cards. The only type of cycle that would be feasible would be a Tron style enclosed one.
There is no way they are going to have an object that alters your appearence to something else while still keeping a version of you attached to it. Its just not something they have the tech for.
First off,I would LOVE to see a tron bike here,just change the name around a bit,but it would be the best bike in CO....EVER!
Second:we kinda need to have open vehicles for some heroes,even a regular motorcycle would need to be in here.
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That is a far more valid point than some of your previous arguments on the topic (which I have already discussed). Everybody has been waiting for new zones to level in, and now the ones we get are more niche and geared to heroes that would use the vehicles.
On one hand, its nice to see something a little different. But on the other hand, it does leave out some peoples concepts. And since this game is, at least in my opinion, geared toward character concepts (whether you roleplay or not) it tends to leave the "super" heroes with no new content.
Am I happy to see the non powered vigilantes get some love? Absolutely. Do I think the way the vehicle system is being handled so far is the best way to go? Not entirely. Does it make a bit of difference what any of us think about it? Not by a long shot. They will tweak numbers based on PTS feedback, make adjustments here or there but the core system they have planned is the direction they want to take whether we all like it or not. It may sound cynical, but they will never be able to please everyone (thats just the nature of the MMO beast) so it is what it is.
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@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
As far as i remember people always just wanted Vehicles as Travelpowers here, and not
all the bloat they try to make now from that. But instead of letting the world grow with time
like every other MMO Cryptic seems to like ex and hopp content that is fun to play for 2 days
and then already gets old and nobody plays it anymore when they have the next great idea.
And Vehicles are now just the new Alerts. And in 6 months we maybe get Space-Alerts
where everyone with a Vehicle can fight against a Death Star or whatever.
But god beware they actually give us a real new zone with questchains and so on.
You know they've also stated a island of Dr. Destroyer,now named Destruga,may be in the works,as who knows,they may make TP replacers for those of us who have powers and don't need vehicles,in which we can traverse the vehicle only map and do quest and what not there.
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They also said we get a new quest chain in Wells Pass around a year ago .. and even that
hasn't been done since now .. and even isn't longer mentioned anywhere.
And all that is just in discussion .. forget it .. it was in discussion last year .. it is still in discussion now,
and i'm sure it will still be in discussion next year.
I'm totally on board with you there. Vehicles as TPs is all anybody really wanted. Which they should have done and just give everybody a new zone. But they want to try all this new stuff, which can be commended and all, when instead should really focus on current issues and bugs with a little bit of fluff (like costume packs) thrown in once in awhile.
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@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
fight with your own powers, then a solution could simply have been that the Vehicles are
just a device TP .. so you travel with your device, but in combat it switches automatically
to your default TP .. so you don't have to waste your advantage points for a TP that is useless
in fight, like Batflight and you still can travel with your vehicle.
I made this video to show how boring that vehicle system is.
If you expect awesome vehicles like in GTA or swtor you will be disappointed.
Vehicles here are (at the moment) only "become devices" with the mechanics of the Hover Disc Travelpower.
Since the vehicle system is inspired by STO's ships, I think the vehicle maps will be pretty much the same as the space maps there.
Well the vehicles on pts right now are far different from what they are proposing, and is simply a rough preview. And this is internet, of course the thread is going to go way off the original topic lol.
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@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
Yepp .. also the thread would have been also as boring as the vehicles are :biggrin:
Im sure vehicles will lighten up after they add stuff like clown cars,flying chariots with wings,pogo sticks,bulls,Foxbatmobile,and of course mounts such as bulls.:biggrin:
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Any how bigger final vehicles are needed. I can only make so many robots that a flight mode.
YES! We can have an alert where a team fights off a giant Crystalline Entity that uses cheesy tactics and nerfs certain powers and....
What?
Oh.
Nevermind. :rolleyes:
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Now THAT is a perfect example of what CO vehicles SHOULD BE :cool:
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1:that was me
2:Glad to see someone else supports it,thought I'd be barraged with NOs and stuff when I said that,but seriously,it would be perfect for a 90s type costume set for vehicles,or just be plain awesome,because you cant get much cooler than a tron bike:cool:
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1. Every online community is like this. Actually, I'd say this one is better than most.
2. only one I see throwing a fit is you
3. this game will never be balanced
my god dude, are you always this pessimistic and nit picky? The X men fought colossus galactus and a few others on the cartoon series by using straight up weaponry the X fighter has on board. And in a few parts where they went across space.
Batman is obvious.
Robin is the same.
Green Hornet, Duh.
Punisher, all day.
The Avengers have a jet.
Spawn can turn a motorcycle into a weaponized fortress plus anything else he touches.
Ghostriders Hellbike can spit fire and stab people.
Lobo, all day motorcycles.
The power rangers not only had vehicles with weapons on them, they had vehicles which could transform into a GIGANTIC SUPER ROBOT!
So..just because some of the heroes mentioned above aren't mentioned all the time in the mainstream does not mean that there are not superheroes with vehicles.
Cars, planes, motorcycles, its all there.
Agreed. Beldin gave off the impression earlier that 'if they don't have superpowers, they aren't superheroes' or something to that effect.
It would serve him and others with this mindset well to look back before the Silver Age and at the Golden Age heroes and Pulp Era heroes... many of which were little more than costumed vigilantes that had to rely on equipment like vehicles.
1. A portion of the player base has been asking for them almost since beta.
2. In a staff meeting, one of the Cryptic staff pointed out that the STO store is making money selling starships.
I still believe that vehicles should be a viable choice, not a wth, why would I use anything else? As this is the first pass, it's hard to tell what the final product will be like balance-wise, but the first pass is definitely over-tuned.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
While vehicles are pretty good,the speed is insane,which is also good in my opinion,weapons loadout on them is decent,but if they're trying to sell this to the ENTIRE playerbase it won't work,for example,people care about concepts,which in most of them,they don't use vehicles a lot,so it only appeals to a small portion of the playerbase,also Im not saying they are bad,they just don't fit alot of concepts,also if they intend to sell them for as much as the catalyst rank things go for,they aren't doing to make a bunch off of that due to both its high price and low demand.
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