Again?!

forutnefire · August 2012

Hey Cryptic, it's taking everything I have not to curse you out right now. I've been marked as a spammer. Again. This is 3 times.

Not ONE MONTH has passed since I was last flagged. All I was doing this time was PMing friends. The 2 times before that, I was helping/attempting to host community events. The major one here, and more recently here.

What the hell? I'm done giving you guys money until you fix your broken system.

hocofaisan · August 2012

Maybe it's time you call it a day.

I know I would if I was being harassed and Cryptic did nothing to resolve it.

visionstorm01 · August 2012

Seriously, I've been taking a long vacation from CO and things like this are the reason I'm in no hurry to come back. Even if this doesn't happen to me personally, what's the point in rushing back into a game where the company doesn't care enough about its customers to fix broken systems that can consistently be abused in a blatant effort to completely ruin their experience, and shouldn't have been in there in the first place?

benevon · August 2012

I'm gonna say it again, this NEEDS to be fixed!!

Sorry to hear it happened again Flare. I just logged on and some of my SG mates said SPEAR CCs were cancelled for good. I immediately checked here. I can only assume that your being silenced yet again is the reason.

It will be a real shame to see you go, but honestly I couldn't blame you if you decide to leave the game over this. Best of luck man.

forutnefire · August 2012

S.P.E.A.R.'s indefinite postponement of costume contests is not directly associated with the chat bans. Meaning: this ban is not the main reason, but it is a contributing factor.

xenosinfinityx · August 2012

Something is badly needed for this system... Like complete removal. Or active intervention by a GM to execute any sort of mute. Or linking the last ten minutes of the reportee's chat log to the report to go with the previous option.

It's ridiculous that someone can simply organise forcing a player out of the chat for 24 hours just because they don't like them. I do not agree with swearing on the forums, but seriously.

What the hell, Cryptic?

lo1processor · August 2012

I've been silenced 3 times in history, all randomly and highly unexpected. I got an extra notice telling me that they shoved me onto some sorta CO's Most Wanted list the second time, and that pushed me over the edge. They do realize we're paying them, right? Best of luck to you. As for THE END OF THIS UTTERLY STUPID PIECE OF CRAP REPORT SPAM/IGNORE/CHAT BAN SYSTEM, I say,

/signed

biffsmackwell · August 2012

lo1processor wrote: »

I got an extra notice telling me that they shoved me onto some sorta CO's Most Wanted list the second time, and that pushed me over the edge.

Did you report this?

lo1processor · August 2012

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Did you report this?

I sent in a ticket, if that's what you mean. Some derp GM or mod or whatever they say to call them now that I've never heard of, seen working on the PTS, or on the forums replied doing nothing but saying that I'm a "repeat offender", when mind you this was my second random silence, with no previous warnings whatsoever, and then instructing me to wait it out and take no further action until it is over. ALSO, I couldn't even read half the message, because the pop-up ticket screen is glitched! Real quality work your doing here, PWE and Cryptic . . .

vizzone · August 2012

Hi. I'm the guy who plays Lee Tosi. I recently got a silence for 'spam' when I was just chatting normally. In fact, I hadn't said anything in five minutes, then said one sentence, and was slapped with a 24 hour silence. Sure, I can be an annoying jerk on that character and RP annoys some people, but he was in no way spamming. So I sent in a ticket for GM help. They replied 20 hours later, and their reply was basically 'tough luck'. But in a polite way.

Something needs to be done about the silence system, definitely. It's easily abused, and the people who abuse it don't even get a slap on the wrist. Having a GM in game at all times to monitor chat would be better than the current, easily abusable system. But that costs money I doubt they're willing to pay.

I fully expect to be silenced again in the future. I have a knack for being an annoyance. But being annoying isn't 'spamming'. And it shouldn't result in a 24 hour silence.

forutnefire · August 2012

vizzone wrote: »

Having a GM in game at all times to monitor chat would be better than the current, easily abusable system. But that costs money I doubt they're willing to pay.

If they paid for my subscription, I'd GM for them.

haleakala · August 2012

Just in case anyone missed it, the report spam "feature" was recently addressed on the PTS Forums by Drannic.

drannic wrote: »

Working as designed:
Issues under this category are issues that are caused with how our game works and may not be able to change, or these issues are working as designed. These issues will be brought up to development and discussed if it is possible to resolve, but no promises are being made.

Systems: Global Chat Server: Report for spam feature is being abused. (somebob, Thread Post) [QA - This feature is a part of game engine, and will not be removed since all of our games use this. But since Champions has seen a huge drop in advertisers, maybe we can look into making a game specific change to lighten when the silence is placed on an account. I will bring this issue up with development to see if this is possible, or at least someone to look into it. Also to reassure, CO does have GMs, but with the increase of products and players under Cryptic Studios titles, GMs are not always granted the amount of time to ?show face? in game these days as I did when I was still a GM during Champions launch. ]

forutnefire · August 2012

What type of BS response is that?

"Working as designed", "will not be removed", "look into game specific changes".

It's like they don't know what they should do and are trying to coverup giving people false hope. Here's a hint: You're losing $$$, players, and respect. Get rid of the this system. Now.

EDIT: Whats the point of the GMs if not to help moderate in the game? To work behind the scenes? How's that going for you?

lo1processor · August 2012

forutnefire wrote: »

what Type Of Bs Response Is That?

"working As Designed", "will Not Be Removed", "look Into Game Specific Changes".

It's Like They Don't Know What They Should Do And Are Trying To Coverup Giving People False Hope. Here's A Hint: You're Losing $$$, Players, And Respect. Get Rid Of The This System. Now.

Power To The Player!

flyingfinn · August 2012

That's how the game works, with little involvement from Cryptic as possible....

That 'Working As Designed' makes me giggle every time... Someone sure has no idea how things work...

reinweibritter · August 2012

forutnefire wrote: »

What type of BS response is that?

"Working as designed", "will not be removed", "look into game specific changes".

It's like they don't know what they should do and are trying to coverup giving people false hope. Here's a hint: You're losing $$$, players, and respect. Get rid of the this system. Now.

It means that the function is built into the Cryptic engine and won't be removed, because as Cryptic games share a chat server it cannot be removed from only one of the games and it does actually see legitimate use over in STO.

kurbeewankenobi · August 2012

The system is outdated and unnecessary. I haven't seen a gold seller in CO since launch, and even then nobody gave a flying flip enough about the game for it to last long. As is, it is a griefing tool.

Small population, little reliance on the in-game currency... we're just rolling in the gold sellers, right?

(I find it kind of funny that a Diablo 3 gold selling thread popped up on the forums just the other night. That's the closest thing to in-game gold selling adverts we've had in a looong while.)

EDIT: That actually does make sense, above. Still a terrible system that puts power in the hands of players, who can never be trusted.

ashensnow · August 2012

drannic wrote:

Working as designed:
Issues under this category are issues that are caused with how our game works and may not be able to change, or these issues are working as designed. These issues will be brought up to development and discussed if it is possible to resolve, but no promises are being made.

Systems: Global Chat Server: Report for spam feature is being abused. (somebob, Thread Post) [QA - This feature is a part of game engine, and will not be removed since all of our games use this. But since Champions has seen a huge drop in advertisers, maybe we can look into making a game specific change to lighten when the silence is placed on an account. I will bring this issue up with development to see if this is possible, or at least someone to look into it. Also to reassure, CO does have GMs, but with the increase of products and players under Cryptic Studios titles, GMs are not always granted the amount of time to ?show face? in game these days as I did when I was still a GM during Champions launch.

Now that is funny.

Going from nearly zero advertisers to essentially zero advertisers is not a, "huge drop."

Cryptic might want to consider that part of the reason there isnt much of (read none) a RMT presence in CO is the low population. If your game is not popular enough to attract RMTers, perhaps you should not be actively driving customers away ?

nepht · August 2012

>_> right this is seriously creepeh cryptic get your game together and find the people that are stalking the OP!

somebob · August 2012

haleakala wrote: »

Just in case anyone missed it, the report spam "feature" was recently addressed on the PTS Forums by Drannic.

Beat me to it, as I was the one who Drannic responded to. Disgusting, isn't it?

jennymachx · August 2012

Feature will not be removed.

Well thanks for being direct and to the point Drannic bud. Someone in development must be treating the chat-ban system as their pride and joy to stubbornly refuse removal of it.

Maybe changes can be made to lighten it.

That's no consolation at all, since we want to see it gone. Like entirely so.

Issue will be brought up to development.

That's what Stormshade told us more than 6 months ago.

CO has GMs.

Excuse me while I go fix this chair I broke from all the violent fits I had laughing too hard.

visionstorm01 · August 2012

Even if we ever had advertisers in this game or if any ever crop up in any of Cryptic's other games, reality still remains that the system DOESN'T WORK.

Its a lazy, irresponsible solution that does not, and will not, EVER serve its intended purpose because it places an automated system at the hands of the playerbase with no oversight, no instructions and no way to prevent misuse. And if anyone misuses it, there's no way to reverse its effects once the damage its done.

Players are just handed an easy access ignore button with no way to even know what they're supposed or not supposed to use it for. And even if they did it wouldn't change anything because:

There is no way to stop players from misusing it
According information we've been given before, even if players used the ignore function instead of report spam, the ignore function still counts toward chat-banning an account.

And once the damage is done what is Cryptic gonna do?

Ban the "offending" account? For using the tools they were given? When there's no clear cut way to determine** if malicious intent was involved and even a simple ignore (which would not consitute any "misuse") could produce the same result?

No. They're gonna let it slide, and the affected players will just have to deal with it and wait out their time.

The entire system is completely useless for anything but the laziest, most irresponsible ways of spam prevention, were the only method employed to stop spam is to automatically chat-ban someone for getting X number of ignore/reports regardless of whether they were spamming not. Its moderation at its very laziest.

*and it can't be reversed since there's no way to revert a chat-ban and they didn't think to give the GMs that power--even if there were any GM to begin with...
**other than perhaps malicious tells with threats, etc. recieved by the victim, which will not likely happen, and could only be pinned to a limited number of accounts (perhaps only one) out of whatever number it takes to chat-ban someone

ashensnow · August 2012

After some friends did some testing (with a willing subject) I can say that its possible for one person to chat ban another.

Literally one person with a vendetta and willingness to act on it is all it takes.

somebob · August 2012

:mad:

.....

That might explain a few things.

jennymachx · August 2012

ashensnow wrote: »

After some friends did some testing (with a willing subject) I can say that its possible for one person to chat ban another.

Literally one person with a vendetta and willingness to act on it is all it takes.

If it all it takes is one person using a method I suspect you guys were testing out (won't say it here of obvious reasons), then that's just disheartening to know and even more disheartening knowing that Cryptic still blindly believes that it's a "must have" feature.

battybattybats · August 2012

Check your local anti-bullying and anti-harassment laws. Online harassment such as abusing this feature will be illegal in some countries/states and PW have a legal duty-of-care and despite any EULAs they might have people sign those will not protect them from getting sued because they aren't considered binding everywhere.

As legal systems are starting to realise exactly how damaging online bullying is more and more is being acted on and online media are starting to take bullying very seriously indeed.

I'm sure PW don't want a lawsuit over this. And as they say this is their general system not a CO specific one its a much bigger problem than what we see on this forum. So they need to put up a system where those abusing the chat-ban system can themselves be identified and banned. Otherwise its only a matter of time before they run afoul of a bullied kid whose Mum or Dad is a lawyer in one of the many countries/states with strong anti cyber-bullying laws and it then hits the international press and causes them big financial hurt.

forutnefire · August 2012

battybattybats wrote: »

Check your local anti-bullying and anti-harassment laws. Online harassment such as abusing this feature will be illegal in some countries/states and PW have a legal duty-of-care and despite any EULAs they might have people sign those will not protect them from getting sued because they aren't considered binding everywhere.

As legal systems are starting to realise exactly how damaging online bullying is more and more is being acted on and online media are starting to take bullying very seriously indeed.

I'm sure PW don't want a lawsuit over this. And as they say this is their general system not a CO specific one its a much bigger problem than what we see on this forum. So they need to put up a system where those abusing the chat-ban system can themselves be identified and banned. Otherwise its only a matter of time before they run afoul of a bullied kid whose Mum or Dad is a lawyer in one of the many countries/states with strong anti cyber-bullying laws and it then hits the international press and causes them big financial hurt.

Very interesting.

haleakala · August 2012

somebob wrote: »

Beat me to it, as I was the one who Drannic responded to. Disgusting, isn't it?

I was floored that professional design studio thinks this is a good idea. To me, it makes them look like amateur hour.

forutnefire · August 2012

I just hit send on another long ticket to PWE, for what good it'll do. Let's cross our fingers.

flyingfinn · August 2012

I got 1 more thing to say about the system. I'm not a part of gaming industry, i dont make games, i'm not big mmo player, played about 4-5 games. But when i 1st heard about this PlayerRunChatBamSystem, my thought was 'Great. This wont be good'.
So, how in the world of fudge can someone/s who works on a company that makes games even think of making system like this? Have they ever played any mmos? Like ever? Have they even heard mmo's? Do they have slightest idea how people actually act in large groups? Towards others? Like, i'm not the brightest lamp, but for gruds sake, man. I've coulda told in a second that the system WILL NOT WORK. Like WTF. Use yer heads.

cybersoldier1981 · August 2012

Maybe I'm a jerk, but here's what you can do:

When you get chat-banned by a player:

1- Send in a ticket.

2- Contact someone you play with by other means (phone, skype, etc.)

3- Have your friend send a ticket, and PM anyone on their friends list to do the same. Keep it simple, "My friend @Choosedeedle was chat banned and this is from greifing. This is harassment."

4- If you get a PM from someone asking you to do so, help.

5- FLOOD the ticket box with complaints. Repeat this often, over and over again. Send in a ticket every hour. Have your friends on STO do the same and specify what game.

secksegai · August 2012

forutnefire wrote: »

What the hell? I'm done giving you guys money until you fix your broken system.

I've had that mentality for months =P I don't see any incoming fixes

klitty · August 2012

I don't know who's idea was it, maybe the dev's wife or son. But they really love that feature, dang it! >:C

It seems that unless you cancel your sub they won't move a hair to change this retarded feature. Money, that's something they really understand.

benevon · August 2012

What a pathetic response from the devs. I understand it may be out of his control, and its appreciated that was forth coming about it. But working as intended? Like others have said, I have not seen any gold sellers or reason to use this feature in awhile. Ignore button works just fine against the trolls.

This is NOT working as intended, and to try to argue otherwise is just being stubborn. The chat banning of players minding their own business by other players is so far from the intended purpose.

And also, one of the major things that keep me playing this game is the community. There are alot of awesome people on this game, and it always seems that those are the ones that are affected by this "feature". One of friends has been chat banned twice just because he wins a lot of CCs! And Flare, who has contributed a lot to the CC community including all the time spent on the guide to hosting, is griefed for it.

c3rvand0 · August 2012

I would suggest that we use the 'ignore player'/'report spam' on the GMs, so that they could get chat banned, in order for them to see how ridiculous the system is, however we would require for GMs to be present in game for that :cool:

itsbrou · August 2012

c3rvand0 wrote: »

I would suggest that we use the 'ignore player'/'report spam' on the GMs, so that they could get chat banned, in order for them to see how ridiculous the system is, however we would require for GMs to be present in game for that :cool:

Try it on the PTS.

benevon · August 2012

c3rvand0 wrote: »

I would suggest that we use the 'ignore player'/'report spam' on the GMs, so that they could get chat banned, in order for them to see how ridiculous the system is, however we would require for GMs to be present in game for that :cool:

It's really sad that it has come to suggestions like this, whether in jest or not. Are these really the types of steps we are going to have to take in order to be heard about this issue? I guess so, as so many of these threads have gone unheard.

itsbrou · August 2012

benevon wrote: »

It's really sad that it has come to suggestions like this, whether in jest or not. Are these really the types of steps we are going to have to take in order to be heard about this issue? I guess so, as so many of these threads have gone unheard.

Yup.

Also, try it on every new player with the "New Champions" SG over their heads.

Terrible first impressions of prospective p(l)ayers = loss of potential profit,

which translates into action.

ofarmer · August 2012

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

Yup.

Also, try it on every new player with the "New Champions" SG over their heads.

Terrible first impressions of prospective p(l)ayers = loss of potential profit,

which translates into action.

If any action is taken in that situation it would be on the people abusing the system to grief the company, not the system itself.

lotar295 · August 2012

As much as I am against being disruptive to other players,if this gets rid of the chat ban system,I may just support giving new players a taste of the GREAT chat ban system we have now:biggrin:

benevon · August 2012

ofarmer wrote: »

If any action is taken in that situation it would be on the people abusing the system to grief the company, not the system itself.

This would be the most likely outcome.

itsbrou · August 2012

ofarmer wrote: »

If any action is taken in that situation it would be on the people abusing the system to grief the company, not the system itself.

Free accounts.

c3rvand0 · August 2012

benevon wrote: »

It's really sad that it has come to suggestions like this, whether in jest or not. Are these really the types of steps we are going to have to take in order to be heard about this issue? I guess so, as so many of these threads have gone unheard.

Whilst I was jesting, nothing else has got Cryptic to change their ludicrous stance on chat bans. However, as tempted as you might be to silence a GM, I guarantee that is the one time they take action against the person responsible for an inappropriate use of chat ban

angelofcaine · August 2012

ofarmer wrote: »

If any action is taken in that situation it would be on the people abusing the system to grief the company, not the system itself.

c3rvand0 wrote: »

Whilst I was jesting, nothing else has got Cryptic to change their ludicrous stance on chat bans. However, as tempted as you might be to silence a GM, I guarantee that is the one time they take action against the person responsible for an inappropriate use of chat ban.

"You know, i really don't like the opinion of that GM/Dev that's on."
"I think i'll /ignore him."

(I'd REALLY like to see how they'd enforce the "appropriateness" of that choice.)

(Or...

"You know, every single new player i've met in the last week was rude to me."
"I think i'll /ignore them."

Personally, i think it's time for a revolution on this issue.
Because "working as intended" obviously isn't

c3rvand0 · August 2012

angelofcaine wrote: »

"You know, i really don't like the opinion of that GM/Dev that's on."
"I think i'll /ignore him."

(I'd REALLY like to see how they'd enforce the "appropriateness" of that choice.)

(Or...

"You know, every single new player i've met in the last week was rude to me."
"I think i'll /ignore them."

Personally, i think it's time for a revolution on this issue.
Because "working as intended" obviously isn't

Lol. Maybe it IS working as intended and Cryptic, in order to reduce server overloads, want us to ban everyone so that they can use our chat server for Neverwinter :cool: This would be in keeping with the current brain drain policy they have.

forutnefire · August 2012

No. Just stop. As much as I despise everyone in "Cryptic World" who apathetically and irresponsibly is ignoring this issue, I condone the use of the system. Do not use it against any Devs or GMs you see (not that you see GMs anymore anyway), and CERTAINLY do not use it against new players who have done nothing wrong.

Were trying to fight this system, not become the ones who abuse it. I've been on the receiving end of this too many times, I'm tired of joking about this system and I refuse to hypocritically joke about solutions to the matter. If my advice were asked on how to combat the system, I would say to follow my and many others' examples of going on a personal strike, incessantly send PWE tickets, and so on.

benevon · August 2012

forutnefire wrote: »

No. Just stop. As much as I despise everyone in "Cryptic World" who apathetically and irresponsibly is ignoring this issue, I condone the use of the system. Do not use it against any Devs or GMs you see (nit that you see GMs anymore anyway), and CERTAINLY do not use it against new players who have done nothing wrong.

Were trying to fight this system, not become the ones who abuse it. I've been on the receiving end of this too many times, I'm tired of joking about this system and I refuse to hypocritically joke about solutions to the matter. If my advice were asked on how to combat the system, I would say to follow my and many others' examples of going on a personal strike.

I know I'm willing to stop giving cryptic any more money in order to have this problem resolved. I'm lifetime, but will stop buying anymore zen for new stuff if that is what it will take.

lo1processor · August 2012

Remember that "Hero Wars" thread? Yeah? We should change up the plot a bit, and make it so that it's devs/GMs VS. the playerbase . . .

haleakala · August 2012

forutnefire wrote: »

No. Just stop. As much as I despise everyone in "Cryptic World" who apathetically and irresponsibly is ignoring this issue, I condone the use of the system. Do not use it against any Devs or GMs you see (nit that you see GMs anymore anyway), and CERTAINLY do not use it against new players who have done nothing wrong.

Were trying to fight this system, not become the ones who abuse it. I've been on the receiving end of this too many times, I'm tired of joking about this system and I refuse to hypocritically joke about solutions to the matter. If my advice were asked on how to combat the system, I would say to follow my and many others' examples of going on a personal strike, incessantly send PWE tickets, and so on.

I agree. As much as I hate the chat ban system on principle, abusing it is not the answer.

bluedarky · August 2012

Not intending to be nasty here but Cryptic needs to step up and take a real hard look at the system if a prominent active community focused SG is stopping their costume contests because they can't hold one without being chat banned.

Maybe it's time that Cryptic seperated the CO chat server from STO/NWN so they can rework the chat ban feature to prevent this from happening if that's the reason that they can't do any major rework or disable it in CO.

nepht · August 2012

haleakala wrote: »

I was floored that an amateur design studio thinks this is a good idea. To me, it makes them look like Prof Genki's Super Ethical Reality Climax .

Fixed that for you...ya I have indeed been playing SRTT well to much

Again?!

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