If you're under the impression throwing any random combination of powers should perform at the same level - you're in denial. You might as well start saying stuff like a ford fiesta should perform at the same level as an F1 Race Car, or better yet, that a Prius should be as fast as a Lamborghini.
Level, matters, and your metaphor is quite lacking, since no one in concept with respect to "superheroes" would intentionally make a robin and expect to survive Darkseid. Robin being the Prius, and Darkseid being the Lamborghini.
Of course against a Lamborghini, into which we all know exist, you strive to make a machine that is par with it.
The deal is, as I make freeform toon, yes perhaps I have less of an understanding as you all seem to have of CO mechanics as it is now, but I am building to strive to make a toon that is supposed to go up against such nemesis, the true threat that are more or less the Legendaries and above.
If I conceptualize, hey, i'll make a neighborhood watch guy, i'll just put the thought of making him appropriately, and in no way expect him to go up against villains beyond his or her caliber.
I have a better time of close to two weeks in the span of a month, when I had time Min Maxing my toons and yes, found combination that kicked arse, but never quite fit the concept I had initially invisioned for it, that is why, Themed toons, never fair well, some may, but there are plenty out there that don't.
Unless your theme is a min maxed toon, your golden.
In my observation, I have concluded that the powers must be complemented with the appropriate gear, because the default stats at Level 40 proves lacking.
The stats Silverspar has displayed to me were astounding to the point of which I can fathom how she can do what she claim.
And yes, one should be able to assemble a mish mash of other builds without necessarily following a tight guideline and come up with a themed toon that shall eventually walk all over a legendary in the least, and as it is, yes, in observation of the game mechanics as I experience it and see other players surmount conditions that prove impossible for my own toon, sporting the same general power chassis. Then to me, the CO mechanics needs balancing so such a thing as mish mashing a them toon can prove infutile. However in my observation during my visit to this thread, that Gear is that balancing factor, and I have already stated this already.
My primary point is that this freeform as they call it isn't true freeform due to the incessant proliferation of power chassis' into about 4 out of 6 players I encounter, bourne of min maxing subculture, initially that is, to which perhaps upon synergy with better gear I can concede to reconsider in that perhaps it may be so and to which I will aim to uncover in time.
I'm calling shenanigans. You start off by claiming that characters in CO can...
...and now you are claiming that you yourself have done what you say cannot be done. You yourself have done what you claim no one has proven to you.
and...
I don't recognize the authority of "shenanigans", they can kiss my superstat.
Well, I guess ishould have been more specific, I apologize, but when I say legendary I am actually referring to Gravitar and maybe Hi-Pan, but more Gravitar, the rest are to me although they are referred to as legendary do not quite draw my respect.
And as you can see even Gravitar and Hi-Pan are not created equal, as are the rest of the Legendaries, they are not all created equal.
And a legendary that is of lower level than your own toon is definitely of a higher probability of shifting the tide of battle towards the side of any player.
I have min maxed toons before, and my point is that it would be awesome to make a toon solely on concept and able to make it an effective toon as well, but as it is, one must carefully choose the powers that effectively work together to get that and that there should be a mechanic that allow such mastery and potency to be wielded by Theme toons.
And as I have already stated, that I have gathered that perhaps that missing link would be "Gear".
Btw, I just called shenanigans and I think they are on vacation.
The deal is, as I make freeform toon, yes perhaps I have less of an understanding as you all seem to have of CO mechanics as it is now, but I am building to strive to make a toon that is supposed to go up against such nemesis, the true threat that are more or less the Legendaries and above.
If I conceptualize, hey, i'll make a neighborhood watch guy, i'll just put the thought of making him appropriately, and in no way expect him to go up against villains beyond his or her caliber.
I have a better time of close to two weeks in the span of a month, when I had time Min Maxing my toons and yes, found combination that kicked arse, but never quite fit the concept I had initially invisioned for it, that is why, Themed toons, never fair well, some may, but there are plenty out there that don't.
If someone is sacrificing a whole lot of performance value just for the sake of maintaining a concept in a purist sense, then the person had better wake up to the reality of things. If the character is made deliberately under-performing and its player expects to join teams, those teams aren't going to appreciate a player who spends a majority of their time getting defeated and respawn-rush. If they're happy living with it while solo'ing then more power to them.
First and foremost, the game mechanics require the player to have both survivability to a degree and combat effectiveness in general. When I say combat effectiveness, it doesn't automatically mean being able to foor-wipe everything in seconds, but to be somewhat potent in whatever playstyle role they choose. It doesn't have to be a dedicated, specialized role either; Hybrids can be very effective as well and adaptive to various combat situations on the fly.
If someone wants to make a conceptual toon, that's fine. I do it for all my characters. However, a balance has to be striked between concept and build-practicality. The necessary compromise sometimes involves taking a servicable selection of powers (that doesn't automatically mean min-maxing) and then molding the concept around those power choices. It's possible to do this without severely compromising the concept as a whole.
Yes, it is expected of a player to have healing powers for survivability and personal buffs which are relative to their general role(s). It is crucial to have an Active Defense as a panic button. It is expected to have a Defensive or Offensive Passive. These are build templates that cannot be ignored, but it doesn't mean that the freeform system isn't a "true" freeform system. Freeform just means that you're not restricted to predefined classes or archetypes with a default selection of powers. It doesn't mean "I'll select whatever powers I bloody want and expect myself to perform well and be relevant to the game mechanics.".
Perhaps its time to simply admit you were wrong. In the face of the overwhelming amount of feedback you are getting. So we can stop this entire thread derailment.
I don't recognize the authority of "shenanigans", they can kiss my superstat.
Well, I guess ishould have been more specific, I apologize, but when I say legendary I am actually referring to Gravitar and maybe Hi-Pan, but more Gravitar, the rest are to me although they are referred to as legendary do not quite draw my respect.
And as you can see even Gravitar and Hi-Pan are not created equal, as are the rest of the Legendaries, they are not all created equal.
And a legendary that is of lower level than your own toon is definitely of a higher probability of shifting the tide of battle towards the side of any player.
I have min maxed toons before, and my point is that it would be awesome to make a toon solely on concept and able to make it an effective toon as well, but as it is, one must carefully choose the powers that effectively work together to get that and that there should be a mechanic that allow such mastery and potency to be wielded by Theme toons.
And as I have already stated, that I have gathered that perhaps that missing link would be "Gear".
Btw, I just called shenanigans and I think they are on vacation.
Gear can make a very big difference. Particularly if you are still using pre-On Alert gear. The top of the line new stuff is much better than anything that existed before. It, however, is not as important as power synergy.
I agree with you 100% that concept builds should be effective (within reason, as you say if the concept is RObin, dont expect to take on Darkseid with him). I too prefer to build for concept, and have been happy to find that for the most part this has not interfered with my ability to have very effective characters. Of course some are more so than others.
If at any point you might be inclined to post in the Combat/Powers subforum I would be more than happy to provide any advice that I can, and am positive that others will do the same.
For what its worth I wasnt really considering Gravitar or Hi-Pan because of the difficulty in getting a chance to solo them. This much I can tell you, Hi Pan isnt even the most dangerous element of his own Alert. Take out the Yin/Yang effect and his damage is subpar compared to pretty much any serious DPS build (including ATs) out there.
No hard feelings, and sorry this turned into an argument. CO has some of the worst documentation (does have any worthwhile ? :rolleyes:) of any game Ive seen. So we, as a community, have done a pretty good job of filling in. Dont hesitate to ask for advice.
Level, matters, and your metaphor is quite lacking, since no one in concept with respect to "superheroes" would intentionally make a robin and expect to survive Darkseid. Robin being the Prius, and Darkseid being the Lamborghini.
Gonna have to call you on this one. WARNING COMIC BOOK NERDETTE ALERT TIME \o/
The current Robin... Damian Wayne the grandson of Ra's Al Ghul is a nutcase of the highest order and has inherited some of his grandfathers U NO KILL ME .The little crazy even killed a few SuperBoy clones
I would take a different stance and say CO is great in that you can make any concept toon you want and be able to solo most of the content. I've played MMOs where this just isn't the case.
CO then allows you to take the game mechanics greater if you want maximum SYNERGY with other powers and techniques which can allow you to solo Cosmics. That takes brainwork and with the mechanics here, knowing how you like to play. And there are several viable builds that can solo Gravitar, a few of which I made myself with just Rank 5 mods. And they have decent DPS too.
And once again CO allows you to push it further with obtaining rare mods and Q gear.
It's not like you can expect Batman to take on Apokolips solo but Batman is a great hero nonetheless.
Gonna have to call you on this one. WARNING COMIC BOOK NERDETTE ALERT TIME \o/
The current Robin... Damian Wayne the grandson of Ra's Al Ghul is a nutcase of the highest order and has inherited some of his grandfathers U NO KILL ME .The little crazy even killed a few SuperBoy clones
No hard feelings, and sorry this turned into an argument. CO has some of the worst documentation (does have any worthwhile ? :rolleyes:) of any game Ive seen. So we, as a community, have done a pretty good job of filling in. Dont hesitate to ask for advice.
None Taken, I have taken however plenty of information to parse through towards gaining a better understanding of the current state of this game.
Don't get me wrong everyone, I love this game, I merely wished more for it. And there is no need for me to admit I am wrong, for my point ultimately is subjective. My experience of the game and how it works is different from all others, perhaps I have less understanding perhaps not, I cannot go by what I have not experienced due to my inability to surmount certain notions about the mechanics of this game.
Its the character creation that does it for me i can (almost) make any type of hero i can think of While i can't make a perfect clone of whats in my head its close enough i would like to see more urban costume sets (cyberpunk could have been so much better) than magic or tech based ones but i do what i can with what i have. the amount of choice i have in what powers i gain is better than other games i've played ( Dcuo. Cox etc) and the community is fun.
Comments
...and now you are claiming that you yourself have done what you say cannot be done. You yourself have done what you claim no one has proven to you.
and...
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Thats going to cause a time paradox @__@"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Level, matters, and your metaphor is quite lacking, since no one in concept with respect to "superheroes" would intentionally make a robin and expect to survive Darkseid. Robin being the Prius, and Darkseid being the Lamborghini.
Of course against a Lamborghini, into which we all know exist, you strive to make a machine that is par with it.
The deal is, as I make freeform toon, yes perhaps I have less of an understanding as you all seem to have of CO mechanics as it is now, but I am building to strive to make a toon that is supposed to go up against such nemesis, the true threat that are more or less the Legendaries and above.
If I conceptualize, hey, i'll make a neighborhood watch guy, i'll just put the thought of making him appropriately, and in no way expect him to go up against villains beyond his or her caliber.
I have a better time of close to two weeks in the span of a month, when I had time Min Maxing my toons and yes, found combination that kicked arse, but never quite fit the concept I had initially invisioned for it, that is why, Themed toons, never fair well, some may, but there are plenty out there that don't.
Unless your theme is a min maxed toon, your golden.
In my observation, I have concluded that the powers must be complemented with the appropriate gear, because the default stats at Level 40 proves lacking.
The stats Silverspar has displayed to me were astounding to the point of which I can fathom how she can do what she claim.
And yes, one should be able to assemble a mish mash of other builds without necessarily following a tight guideline and come up with a themed toon that shall eventually walk all over a legendary in the least, and as it is, yes, in observation of the game mechanics as I experience it and see other players surmount conditions that prove impossible for my own toon, sporting the same general power chassis. Then to me, the CO mechanics needs balancing so such a thing as mish mashing a them toon can prove infutile. However in my observation during my visit to this thread, that Gear is that balancing factor, and I have already stated this already.
My primary point is that this freeform as they call it isn't true freeform due to the incessant proliferation of power chassis' into about 4 out of 6 players I encounter, bourne of min maxing subculture, initially that is, to which perhaps upon synergy with better gear I can concede to reconsider in that perhaps it may be so and to which I will aim to uncover in time.
I only started playing this game with On Alert, and her stats aren't anything special.
Its not hard to get similar stuff grinding a bit of questionite.
You don't even need Questionite. You can get those stats with Silver Champion gear and rank 5 mods. Rank 7 at the max.
A level 40 can get both with minimal fuss, very little spending, and just a couple of days worth of missions.
I don't recognize the authority of "shenanigans", they can kiss my superstat.
Well, I guess ishould have been more specific, I apologize, but when I say legendary I am actually referring to Gravitar and maybe Hi-Pan, but more Gravitar, the rest are to me although they are referred to as legendary do not quite draw my respect.
And as you can see even Gravitar and Hi-Pan are not created equal, as are the rest of the Legendaries, they are not all created equal.
And a legendary that is of lower level than your own toon is definitely of a higher probability of shifting the tide of battle towards the side of any player.
I have min maxed toons before, and my point is that it would be awesome to make a toon solely on concept and able to make it an effective toon as well, but as it is, one must carefully choose the powers that effectively work together to get that and that there should be a mechanic that allow such mastery and potency to be wielded by Theme toons.
And as I have already stated, that I have gathered that perhaps that missing link would be "Gear".
Btw, I just called shenanigans and I think they are on vacation.
If someone is sacrificing a whole lot of performance value just for the sake of maintaining a concept in a purist sense, then the person had better wake up to the reality of things. If the character is made deliberately under-performing and its player expects to join teams, those teams aren't going to appreciate a player who spends a majority of their time getting defeated and respawn-rush. If they're happy living with it while solo'ing then more power to them.
First and foremost, the game mechanics require the player to have both survivability to a degree and combat effectiveness in general. When I say combat effectiveness, it doesn't automatically mean being able to foor-wipe everything in seconds, but to be somewhat potent in whatever playstyle role they choose. It doesn't have to be a dedicated, specialized role either; Hybrids can be very effective as well and adaptive to various combat situations on the fly.
If someone wants to make a conceptual toon, that's fine. I do it for all my characters. However, a balance has to be striked between concept and build-practicality. The necessary compromise sometimes involves taking a servicable selection of powers (that doesn't automatically mean min-maxing) and then molding the concept around those power choices. It's possible to do this without severely compromising the concept as a whole.
Yes, it is expected of a player to have healing powers for survivability and personal buffs which are relative to their general role(s). It is crucial to have an Active Defense as a panic button. It is expected to have a Defensive or Offensive Passive. These are build templates that cannot be ignored, but it doesn't mean that the freeform system isn't a "true" freeform system. Freeform just means that you're not restricted to predefined classes or archetypes with a default selection of powers. It doesn't mean "I'll select whatever powers I bloody want and expect myself to perform well and be relevant to the game mechanics.".
Perhaps its time to simply admit you were wrong. In the face of the overwhelming amount of feedback you are getting. So we can stop this entire thread derailment.
Gear can make a very big difference. Particularly if you are still using pre-On Alert gear. The top of the line new stuff is much better than anything that existed before. It, however, is not as important as power synergy.
I agree with you 100% that concept builds should be effective (within reason, as you say if the concept is RObin, dont expect to take on Darkseid with him). I too prefer to build for concept, and have been happy to find that for the most part this has not interfered with my ability to have very effective characters. Of course some are more so than others.
If at any point you might be inclined to post in the Combat/Powers subforum I would be more than happy to provide any advice that I can, and am positive that others will do the same.
For what its worth I wasnt really considering Gravitar or Hi-Pan because of the difficulty in getting a chance to solo them. This much I can tell you, Hi Pan isnt even the most dangerous element of his own Alert. Take out the Yin/Yang effect and his damage is subpar compared to pretty much any serious DPS build (including ATs) out there.
No hard feelings, and sorry this turned into an argument. CO has some of the worst documentation (does have any worthwhile ? :rolleyes:) of any game Ive seen. So we, as a community, have done a pretty good job of filling in. Dont hesitate to ask for advice.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I think he imostly decked with R9 Mods since i with my usual R5 mods have around 100 less total stats.
Gonna have to call you on this one. WARNING COMIC BOOK NERDETTE ALERT TIME \o/
The current Robin... Damian Wayne the grandson of Ra's Al Ghul is a nutcase of the highest order and has inherited some of his grandfathers U NO KILL ME .The little crazy even killed a few SuperBoy clones
Here the current Robin's wiki page behold the badassness!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Wayne
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
CO then allows you to take the game mechanics greater if you want maximum SYNERGY with other powers and techniques which can allow you to solo Cosmics. That takes brainwork and with the mechanics here, knowing how you like to play. And there are several viable builds that can solo Gravitar, a few of which I made myself with just Rank 5 mods. And they have decent DPS too.
And once again CO allows you to push it further with obtaining rare mods and Q gear.
It's not like you can expect Batman to take on Apokolips solo but Batman is a great hero nonetheless.
Ohh, thanks for this. Fun.
Indeed, no arguments from the peanut gallery there.
None Taken, I have taken however plenty of information to parse through towards gaining a better understanding of the current state of this game.
Don't get me wrong everyone, I love this game, I merely wished more for it. And there is no need for me to admit I am wrong, for my point ultimately is subjective. My experience of the game and how it works is different from all others, perhaps I have less understanding perhaps not, I cannot go by what I have not experienced due to my inability to surmount certain notions about the mechanics of this game.
It's all good.
thanks for the feedback everyone.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you know Frank you know what I am meaning different in a creepeh way @__@"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!