I keep thinking about all those villains that appear in only peripheral missions that I wager many players have never seen. Bunker Buster comes readily to mind. I so wish we could see more of those characters in other places in the game (e.g. a fight between 5 heroes and 5 villains, sort of like the end of Red Dawn).
The tabletop RPG on which this game is based has presented a superhero setting that is the broadest, deepest, most diverse yet coherent around, outside of the Big Two comics publishers. That so little of it has been translated to Champions Online breaks my heart.
After CO went online, former Hero Games line developer Steve Long went looking for characters created by Cryptic devs which he could adapt to the latest edition of the tabletop game. He found worth in a number of those peripheral characters, e.g. Cadaver, Double Dealer, the Fiend, Galeforce, Morticus, the Reaper. Steve gave them more detailed origins, coherent rationales for their powers, and in-depth backgrounds and personality/motivation. Making them quite suitable to build scenarios around
Umm, "Is the game a success in giving me hundreds of hours of entertainment for very little money? Yes." Nothing here absolute. Note the "me." I was careful to specify that context is important and specified that the success in this case was for me, no one else. Other people can measure success according to other metrics. I'm more than happy to acknowledge that the game doesn't have a huge player base or generate a lot of revenue for the parent company.
(...)
It's not about "other people can measure", it's that your question is biaised and not a valid measure of a game success.
Fisrt, the formulation is biased. "Is the game a success in giving me hundreds of hours of entertainment for very little money?"
As I've already explained this question only provides a data to measure a success, not the whole measure of success as writen in the quote. Therefore I repeat and confirm that the moment a single data is extrapolated as a whole measure, it is an absolute.
Second, the distinction between you and the others in this matter is false. There's no such valid thing as your metric and the metrics of others. That's definitely not how we can measure a success.
Third, the excluding (they're excluding optional answers to allow only 1 possible answer) and echoeing words of game and entertainment.
A game is, per definition, designed to provide entertainment.
This question is comparable to ask : "Is a pen a success in providing me hours of writing for very little money?"
Errhmm... no.
It surprises me how super hero games do as a sub genre. One would think the absolutely massive success of other super hero media would make it a no-brainer, but few super hero games do that well. Champions had a few bursts of successes, and of course enjoyed of a brief resurgence with its F2P model grabbing more players, but it's been slow. Content still happens, but it's very little and very rarely.
What I personally wished for was more creative tools. Back during one of the player surges, when big content was easier to justify, adding more creative tools like mission builders and house/base editors and such. Things that would let the players become a strong source of content in itself. Really take advantage of the customization in this game to the maximum and forge a good niche there. Going hard into the dev created theme-park route for content proved too hard to sustain. As it is it makes the main content feel like it dries up after running through only a few alts.
Now it's just too late to do anything like that. Making those tools really functional and player friendly takes a lot of work, work they wouldn't be able to justify now.
There was never a "what could have been". If there is one consistent aspect this game's development has had throughout the years is lack of direction. There was never a goal line or a general objective, each dev team came and did whatever they pleased. It's why having a Game Director is important.
Speaking of ways to make the game more successful.. For the love of all things superhero, the Devs should change/update the default free-to-play AT costumes and proportions. They're everyone's first experience with the game and and yowza are they bad! Has anyone looked at the default Inferno or Mountain ATs lately? Oof!
The costume creator is one of the hallmark reasons to play CO and the default AT costumes sooo do not sell the product.
The Devs have been updating Millennium City citizens and NPCs with updated outfits and proportions (thank you Devs). Now, please get whoever has been designing the sidekick devices to overhaul those AT costumes. Better yet, hold a Dev CC to have people redesign the AT costumes. You have amazing designers in the player base.
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
This argument is the equal of saying someone who has been in a coma connected to a ventilator for 11 years is alive and healthy.
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
As said before, "a game Just lasting for sake of lasting don't make any game a successful game." by that logic, WoW that lasted more than 11 years hit that title of being successful by far, even with its problems that know by the globe, while a game like DCUO have by 2x amount of people playing it and have a [Very Positive Review] Vs [Mixed Review] by Champion online Via Steam
And DCUO a game that most have you being a sidekick has been around for 9 years, And that only 2 years apart from Champions Online.
I understand the defending and stuff... but This Game needs to improve, BY ALOT! Like this game is getting hit with negative reviews left and right / getting more negative reviews than positive, And FYI people will pay attention to these things.
it is easy for me to say this game is a "success" but I will be the only one if not of very few saying this. a few people saying this game is Successful doesn't make this game a Successful, but if anything it will be Successful to you and only few who think the same, at least when it comes to this game as of now.
As I'm getting from everyone who saying this game is successful or is a success is: This game is a success by not improving, or by not even trying to improve.
we do want this game to improve right? with its hundreds of bugs and underperforming powers, right?
Son! Marvel Heroes is dead, and City of heroes is revived and I would say yes, by far more successful then champions online will ever be, sadly. it the only one that has a revive, I can only question if this game will ever get that. and for marvel heroes, it had over thousands of players thanks to it IP, I'm 100% sure it died rich, and sadly from a business perspective, That Success!
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Criticizing a game is not the same as disliking it.
Also, you must be confusing me with someone else. I was the chief skeptic of those "spiritual successor" games and always ridiculed them whenever I had the opportunity.
All the Spiritual Successors of CoH.
Oh, wait...Those weren't even made.
I said and stand by my statement; that CoH: Homecoming returning was the worst thing that could have happened for all of those projects, the ones which were never more than vaporware and the real ones.
Who needs a successor game when the old one, but better is now right there and free to play to boot?
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Criticizing a game is not the same as disliking it.
Also, you must be confusing me with someone else. I was the chief skeptic of those "spiritual successor" games and always ridiculed them whenever I had the opportunity.
If you are saying you moan because you love you must really love CO.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Criticizing a game is not the same as disliking it.
Also, you must be confusing me with someone else. I was the chief skeptic of those "spiritual successor" games and always ridiculed them whenever I had the opportunity.
If you are saying you moan because you love you must really love CO.
so you saying the game is fine as it is than? no improvements? no undo's?
Also any person who criticize something may have more love than a person who don't criticize anything...
It surprises me how super hero games do as a sub genre. One would think the absolutely massive success of other super hero media would make it a no-brainer, but few super hero games do that well. Champions had a few bursts of successes, and of course enjoyed of a brief resurgence with its F2P model grabbing more players, but it's been slow. Content still happens, but it's very little and very rarely.
I've thought about and read about that disconnect with current superhero popularity a fair bit. I think I'm inclined toward the theory that the great majority of contemporary fans of these characters and stories today have become aware of them through movies and television, which are essentially media of passive consumption. Everything is handed to them in explicit detail -- characters, dialogue, plot lines. There isn't much of an imaginative dimension which would naturally lead them to think of role playing in such a setting. Even though the source comic books are a greatly visual medium, the inherent limitations of a two-dimensional static image and silent word balloons mean the readers are more actively participating by adding their own subtext to flesh them out.
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Criticizing a game is not the same as disliking it.
Also, you must be confusing me with someone else. I was the chief skeptic of those "spiritual successor" games and always ridiculed them whenever I had the opportunity.
If you are saying you moan because you love you must really love CO.
Well yeah, I wanted it to be the best thing it could be. Is that so wrong? To want the best for something you enjoy?
Hell, I just started delving into the PnP RPG it's based on and it really could be more.
It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Criticizing a game is not the same as disliking it.
Also, you must be confusing me with someone else. I was the chief skeptic of those "spiritual successor" games and always ridiculed them whenever I had the opportunity.
If you are saying you moan because you love you must really love CO.
Well yeah, I wanted it to be the best thing it could be. Is that so wrong? To want the best for something you enjoy?
Hell, I just started delving into the PnP RPG it's based on and it really could be more.
I might be getting mellow in my old age I actually meant that with all honesty. I think hanging around in Runescape too much made younger me super aggressive
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I've been thinking about this since I came back, and how much I love CO despite it's flaws and shortcomings, but the thing is, I was playing this game for years before I stopped, and it wasn't because I got bored or anything; life just got in the way.
Now I'm back and I'm glad it's still here, but I feel like the game could be so much more than it is currently.
Thing is, it's not bad. A lot of the little revamps have gone a long way - especially the way Westside was made a little more coherent, and the way alerts let you just jump right in and get down.
What I would love to see would be a good community push for this game. There's an "Event" every week, and there's all kinds of relevant stuffs out there for CO to bring in new players. And the thing is, there is a steady stream of new players all the time, even tho it may not be that many.
I propose a fan campaign to bring some attention to CO. For newbies, there's enough meat and potatoes to really enjoy, and if we get a decent enough population, maybe there'll be some more development like the "Series" thing that's out now.
What we need to do tho, is make sure CO stands on its own, as its own. I think a big problem was when it first released, too many people expected CoH 2, which this is not.
One thing that DCUO does that bugs me is it basically has 2 fighting systems - a combo based brawler, and the usual click rotation you see in MMOs. CoH was just click rotation, which got old quick.
CO has a different style - much more interactive. It also has a different visual style - DCUO has some weird as poses for everything, it looks awkward. CoH was much more.... realistic? (I would say basic; I loved it, but nothing about it stood out).
I wish we had the mission making system NW had (has?) because that would also be a huge boon to the game - the Bethesda titles are blessed by the modding community, and CO could have had something like that too; farm out the work!!
Anyway, I don't see it as "what could have been," we should take it as, "lets make it happen."
We will only get cosmetic updates, additions ..devices, costumes and auras. No new power sets, archetypes or end game content. Just come to terms with it. Possible potential or not this game will always be limping along and be grateful there are people who dump their money into the zen store. I'm positive its the only thing keeping this game alive. So for the players who say..I'm not stupid I don't spend any money I let other idiots do it. Those idiots keep this game up. So next time say ty to players you know spend on zen store. Players posting in trade or zone as an example selling..x20 destroyer cape costume. He/she bought alot of keypack mod bundles lol
We will only get cosmetic updates, additions ..devices, costumes and auras. No new power sets, archetypes or end game content. Just come to terms with it. Possible potential or not this game will always be limping along and be grateful there are people who dump their money into the zen store. I'm positive its the only thing keeping this game alive. So for the players who say..I'm not stupid I don't spend any money I let other idiots do it. Those idiots keep this game up. So next time say ty to players you know spend on zen store. Players posting in trade or zone as an example selling..x20 destroyer cape costume. He/she bought alot of keypack mod bundles lol
Oh no we can expect lots of stuff like current content made a pain in the butt to play and powers and device nerfed because no fun allowed. GET HYPED PEOPLE \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I propose a fan campaign to bring some attention to CO. For newbies, there's enough meat and potatoes to really enjoy, and if we get a decent enough population, maybe there'll be some more development like the "Series" thing that's out now.
What we need to do tho, is make sure CO stands on its own, as its own. I think a big problem was when it first released, too many people expected CoH 2, which this is not.
....
Anyway, I don't see it as "what could have been," we should take it as, "lets make it happen."
I propose a fan campaign to bring some attention to CO. For newbies, there's enough meat and potatoes to really enjoy, and if we get a decent enough population, maybe there'll be some more development like the "Series" thing that's out now.
What we need to do tho, is make sure CO stands on its own, as its own. I think a big problem was when it first released, too many people expected CoH 2, which this is not.
....
Anyway, I don't see it as "what could have been," we should take it as, "lets make it happen."
or bring attention to this game, Since this game doesn't really exist, but yet still it a large order to fill However though, since they're not much to show within this game since it is kinda limited, and boring in most terms unless you playing the carrot game with events, and such... unless this game is to improve... but until then not much anyone can do but wait and hope that the Devs can get this game to its primes.
And a reminder if not seen before this game got a Mixed Review...
(...)CO has a different style - much more interactive. It also has a different visual style -(...). CoH was much more.... realistic? (I would say basic; I loved it, but nothing about it stood out).
(...)
Hahaha, good joke. You really made me laughed on this one.
As I'm not really in the mood to waste my time to attempt to talk to deaf fanbois who would either stalk me all over the forum to pin every possible error in my comments (the most annoying part is that i end up to correct that stalker) or reduce definitions down to naive simplicisms, I'll pass on my opinion.
Someone already talked about the missing key to put CO back on successful rails : there's no direction, no plan.
Last example : vehicle nerfs.
I propose a fan campaign to bring some attention to CO. For newbies, there's enough meat and potatoes to really enjoy, and if we get a decent enough population, maybe there'll be some more development like the "Series" thing that's out now.
What we need to do tho, is make sure CO stands on its own, as its own. I think a big problem was when it first released, too many people expected CoH 2, which this is not.
....
Anyway, I don't see it as "what could have been," we should take it as, "lets make it happen."
No not that - What I'm saying is we have a good community with diverse talents. We have player run costume contests, all kinds of artists and everyone and their mom has facebook/instagram/whatever. It's also my understanding somebody was doing youtube videos for CO at some point but is now in classes or something. I've seen live streams with THOUSANDS of viewers for mobile/facebook games like Hero Wars, where the entire content is "buy emeralds with real money, unlock stuffs, watch little guys fight." I think we can meet that high bar.
What I'm saying is we combine these things. All we need to do is donate time and skills, but there needs to be a cohesive theme.
In a perfect world (hurr) we'd have Cryptic's backing and maybe coordinate a thing. Jan 1, 2021 is a Friday - gonna be a lot of hungover folks with a long weekend ahead of them, a lot of kids out of school for like a week with parents who want some free time, and like 50% of the entire planet stuck at home with nowhere to go. CO will have the most captive audience possible of any time in recorded history.
"New Year, New Champions!!"
Ring in 2021 by showing off your new hero!
(If Cryptic pitches in, maybe do a sale of some kind - Lifetime Sub Sale for the game that's lasted 11 years and counting! 1 New Freeform Champion for everyone! Give em a taste Cryptic!!! Make em WANT IT.)
Some folks with youtube voices could do a short series - not quite a walkthrough, but a glance at highlights - 5 mins in the tutorial "Defending from Aliens: Learn to Block!!," (intercut montage of big hits from little bugs to Qwyjibo) 5 mins in Westside/Canada/Desert "Develop your character's signature: Pick a main attack," (show off some of the favorite powers and how to make them work) 5 mins in Vibora "Feel the magic: A build comes together through skills, specialization, and gear," (show off some of the more impressive stuff - wiping out 30 guys, going toe to toe with Destroids), 5 mins doing all the other stuff "Lots of world to save: Always on Alert" (5 mins of just jumping into quick play matches and look at longer style raids and storyarcs), "Something Old, Something New" (5 mins of the stuff nobody else has - costume contests, vehicles, nemesis system, transform devices, flaming pumpkins, giant growth, swinging and ink travel powers, vehicles).
Little ad-like segments leading to something like a Twitch/lets play with something like Suggest a hero! - have a blank lvl 40 with a retcon and heirloom gear ready to go, have a few different suggestions from ppl in the comments - theme, powers, background, name - and do a quick build of whatever, and slap together a quick 4 color costume to match, and take them for a test drive through alerts. We could write into our favorite review folks on youtube, podcasts, and wherever unsolicited opinions are sold, and ask em to take a look at the game around Christmas (the holiday period when ppl have days off, but only just enough time to check things out briefly before having to rush to Target for those last minute gift socks) pique audience interest, make em come back for the big one a week later.
Put up a release schedule, and everybody shares it with everybody on whatever feed(s) they use - every week, something comes up leading to the live stream, maybe a costume contest and giveaway or something. Straight up, I'll donate 20 keys and a vehicle if something comes together.
The thing is, CO needs to find its theme. Don't sell it as CoH2. Don't sell it as Jack Emmerts stillborn baby. Don't sell it as competition to all the MMOs out there. Sell it for what it is. Wanna PVP hunters v. werewolves? You can. Wanna do temple raids, or fight giant teddy bears? You can. Want to uncover a plot by your very own, custom designed villain to... do something? You can. Wanna go on an epic story arc that will probably take a few days to get through? You can. Team up with randos for a 2 minute drill? Fight a supervillain in a 10 man brawl? Take on a Giant dino with 40 other players? Defend against 2 giant robots invading downtown? Take on a tower of mutated organisms culminating in a tactical battle against a weird mad scientist as a telepathic drunken hobo frog wielding swordfish? YOU CAN.
You can do whatever you want.
Be heroic, resilient, versatile. Be a Champion. Online.
The tabletop RPG on which this game is based has presented a superhero setting that is the broadest, deepest, most diverse yet coherent around, outside of the Big Two comics publishers. That so little of it has been translated to Champions Online breaks my heart.
I'm not actually sure this is true, although i'm not deeply familiar with Champions lore like you are. But Worm strikes me as a reasonable competitor in terms of depth and coherency, if not breadth. (Although it does manage to be pretty broad). (I would be thrilled by a CRPG set in the Worm universe).
The tabletop RPG on which this game is based has presented a superhero setting that is the broadest, deepest, most diverse yet coherent around, outside of the Big Two comics publishers. That so little of it has been translated to Champions Online breaks my heart.
I'm not actually sure this is true, although i'm not deeply familiar with Champions lore like you are. But Worm strikes me as a reasonable competitor in terms of depth and coherency, if not breadth. (Although it does manage to be pretty broad). (I would be thrilled by a CRPG set in the Worm universe).
As I'm currently reading through all of the Champions material, I can confirm how deep and rich it is with its universe. It is very close to being on the level of the Big Two.
(...)
Some folks with youtube voices could do a short series - not quite a walkthrough, but a glance at highlights - 5 mins in the tutorial "Defending from Aliens: Learn to Block!!," (intercut montage of big hits from little bugs to Qwyjibo) (...)
(...)
5 mins in Westside/Canada/Desert "Develop your character's signature: Pick a main attack," (show off some of the favorite powers and how to make them work) (...)
(...)
5 mins in Vibora "Feel the magic: A build comes together through skills, specialization, and gear," (show off some of the more impressive stuff - wiping out 30 guys, going toe to toe with Destroids), (...)
The tabletop RPG on which this game is based has presented a superhero setting that is the broadest, deepest, most diverse yet coherent around, outside of the Big Two comics publishers. That so little of it has been translated to Champions Online breaks my heart.
I'm not actually sure this is true, although i'm not deeply familiar with Champions lore like you are. But Worm strikes me as a reasonable competitor in terms of depth and coherency, if not breadth. (Although it does manage to be pretty broad). (I would be thrilled by a CRPG set in the Worm universe).
Well, the Champions PnP RPG was first published in 1981. Over the following decades it was contributed to by scores of authors, and has gone through six editions of the rules of play, as well as several iterations of the Champions Universe. The current official version of the setting is detailed in over two dozen source books (not counting rule books, and those set in non-super past or future eras). It features a detailed time line stretching hundreds of thousands of years into the past, and a thousand years into the future. It includes full backgrounds and game stats for over four hundred official characters, heroic, villainous, and neutral, and it names and outlines many others. It surveys "super" activity in nations on every continent on the planet, including Antarctica, with fully-statted characters from them. It discusses how society has adapted to the presence of superhumans, in law, media, and technology. The CU includes many detailed alien planets, alternate-universe versions of Earth, and a multiverse of supernatural "dimensions," including their inhabitants. It also names nearly eighty sapient races inhabiting the Milky Way Galaxy, some described in great detail, i.e. history, culture, technology, even some notable individuals. Numbered among named (and sometimes statted) entities are the gods and demons of all known religions and mythologies, cosmic-powered "space gods," supernatural "dimension lords," and intelligences embodying fundamental concepts of Reality.
As I'm currently reading through all of the Champions material, I can confirm how deep and rich it is with its universe. It is very close to being on the level of the Big Two.
To be completely fair, there are quite a few elements in the Champions Universe which are analogous to those from DC and Marvel, although they almost always have a distinctive spin to them. That was a deliberate choice. The CU authors weren't trying to reinvent the superhero wheel, but to provide a world for gaming for superhero comic fans that would include many of the familiar concepts and tropes they're used to and expect.
One area I do think Champions does even better than Marvel or DC, is dig into the practical impacts and implications of the presence of superheroes. For example, how are supers and super-powers treated legally and culturally, in America and other nations? What's been the effect of super-technology on warfare, medicine, space exploration, pollution and global warming? What is the lasting legacy of prehistoric civilizations, and multiple alien invasions? Most of these things aren't necessary to know to enjoy playing in the setting, but if you want your role playing to be woven from a more colorful and resilient fabric, it's there.
(...)
Some folks with youtube voices could do a short series - not quite a walkthrough, but a glance at highlights - 5 mins in the tutorial "Defending from Aliens: Learn to Block!!," (intercut montage of big hits from little bugs to Qwyjibo) (...)
(...)
5 mins in Westside/Canada/Desert "Develop your character's signature: Pick a main attack," (show off some of the favorite powers and how to make them work) (...)
(...)
5 mins in Vibora "Feel the magic: A build comes together through skills, specialization, and gear," (show off some of the more impressive stuff - wiping out 30 guys, going toe to toe with Destroids), (...)
(...)
5 mins doing all the other stuff "Lots of world to save (...)
Alerts
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but if it's to say that none of the other content is relevant anymore, I only partially agree. All the other content is still there, it's just that we, as a player-base, have seen it and just want to get to the quick payoffs. If there's a double xp from missions, there would likely be a flurry of attention to that for leveling, just like all the other event stuff. But for NEW players, the stories are still there, as are the experiences.
I think a huge help would be to add a quick team option (if that's even possible) for ppl on the same mission. One of the joys of CoH was meeting ppl and teaming up when something was a bit tough. We have a share mission button for teams already made but with different missions, we should have a team-up button for ppl on the same mission, but with no team.
(...)CO has a different style - much more interactive. It also has a different visual style -(...). CoH was much more.... realistic? (I would say basic; I loved it, but nothing about it stood out).
(...)
Hahaha, good joke. You really made me laughed on this one.
As I'm not really in the mood to waste my time to attempt to talk to deaf fanbois who would either stalk me all over the forum to pin every possible error in my comments (the most annoying part is that i end up to correct that stalker) or reduce definitions down to naive simplicisms, I'll pass on my opinion.
Someone already talked about the missing key to put CO back on successful rails : there's no direction, no plan.
Last example : vehicle nerfs.
As for this, no idea what you're saying. You disagree with CO having it's own visual style, or the gameplay thing? Either way, I partly agree with you - CO is off the rails. We do need a direction/plan. CO has no overarching plot, or endgame. CoH had Lord Recluse as a general bogeyman, but each faction had a long form cohesive storyline. WoW was, essentially, moving up military ranks through an ongoing war. DCEU is trying to prevent doomsday. Each subsequent release/update followed up on or expanded the themes. CO doesn't seem to have that. There's Shadow Destroyer and the Qularr invasion, but there doesn't seem to be much payoff, except maybe in the QWZ, which I haven't seen yet because it's so gated off. Most of our villains just appear for a short one-off and they're done and gone; and you typically fight the big bad for each org after like 3-5 missions.
I remember one moment that really stood out to me was when Babbage first appeared after you exit a mission and I was taken aback and excited. Similarly, in WoW, an early mission was helping save a farm from gnolls or something for a farmer. Nothing like that happens here. The world feels empty and littered. Yes, there's bad guys everywhere, but nothing ties them together or makes the world feel alive. There's no NPCs with their own stories and motivations that need your help. It's all Surhoff telling you to go arrest somebody, or Martha Reece's damn cats.
Bottom line is this: CO needs to make money. That's what the game was made for. But to do that, it needs players. So my pitch is to bring in the players by pointing out what CO IS, rather than by fixating on what it's not, and hopefully by increasing it's profile and bringing in some new players, it might still improve some.
I also think there's enough of us here that love the game that would be willing to put in some extra effort to improve things. Every time I look at Bluhman's guides I'm blown away by the effort, detail, and humor. There's simple stuff too. Someone mentioned yesterday that the "trick or treat" voices sounded like "Cryptic didn't want to pay voice actors so they got Martha from HR to read the lines," and it got me thinking - we all have voices, we can all be Martha - we can help fill in gaps.
Cryptic could release script excerpts, accept 30 second line readings and select VOLUNTEERS (i.e. NOT PAID) to fill some of the missing VO. Start with some of the alerts that only have partial voices so it's less jarring when bubbles come up, but only half have voices. Heck, it could even be a contest - those selected get a free AT or something.
So yes, I am a fanboy, but I'm not deaf or blind. I know it's not perfect, but even if CO stays as is, I'll still be here for a while, because I do actually enjoy the game. I just did Lemurian Invasion for the first time last night, and MY GOD it was AMAZING to fly around at full speed blasting jets and fighting a giant monster. THAT felt like superheroing. I wish there were MORE areas where your travel power was actually useful in combat (and make the camdist farther away so you can see stuffs). Flight is just too damn slow. All the powers are. I get they were limited at one point for balance and for low end PCs but it's 11 years later, give us a damn 4th gear already! But I digress. Hi-Pan's alert stage is also breathtaking - it's gorgeous and there should be a whole zone that incorporates something like that (but with travel powers activated). There's a lot of variety in CO, and every so often I find a new gem that I genuinely enjoy. I'm sorry you're not getting the same out of it.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but if it's to say that none of the other content is relevant anymore, I only partially agree. All the other content is still there, it's just that we, as a player-base, have seen it and just want to get to the quick payoffs. If there's a double xp from missions, there would likely be a flurry of attention to that for leveling, just like all the other event stuff. But for NEW players, the stories are still there, as are the experiences.(...)
(...)Yes, there's bad guys everywhere, but nothing ties them together or makes the world feel alive. There's no NPCs with their own stories and motivations that need your help. It's all Surhoff telling you to go arrest somebody, or Martha Reece's damn cats.(...)
These are many flaws in the design which prevent CO to be immersive :
-there are too many bad guys everywhere.
-players are not invited to be part of any super-stories.
-rewards are not incentive to replay the missions.
-heroes should not kill, this doesn't fit with heroic virtues and values.
Etc etc... but these flaws are here from the beginning so it'll require to redesign CO from start.
(...)Bottom line is this: CO needs to make money. That's what the game was made for. But to do that, it needs players. So my pitch is to bring in the players by pointing out what CO IS, rather than by fixating on what it's not, and hopefully by increasing it's profile and bringing in some new players, it might still improve some.(...)
Here again, that's a fail approach. A successful product makes money but don't make a product for the money.
The fact that CO can't make enough money is also tied to this flawed design that doesn't sell.
Paradoxically you're speaking a lot about what CO is not and not so much about what CO is (last example : the Alerts).
(...)I also think there's enough of us here that love the game that would be willing to put in some extra effort to improve things. Every time I look at Bluhman's guides I'm blown away by the effort, detail, and humor. There's simple stuff too. Someone mentioned yesterday that the "trick or treat" voices sounded like "Cryptic didn't want to pay voice actors so they got Martha from HR to read the lines," and it got me thinking - we all have voices, we can all be Martha - we can help fill in gaps.(...)
Wait? You want CO to become a mmo reworked and maintained by amateurs?
(...)So yes, I am a fanboy, but I'm not deaf or blind. I know it's not perfect, but even if CO stays as is, I'll still be here for a while, because I do actually enjoy the game. I just did Lemurian Invasion for the first time last night, and MY GOD it was AMAZING to fly around at full speed blasting jets and fighting a giant monster. THAT felt like superheroing. I wish there were MORE areas where your travel power was actually useful in combat (and make the camdist farther away so you can see stuffs). Flight is just too damn slow. All the powers are. I get they were limited at one point for balance and for low end PCs but it's 11 years later, give us a damn 4th gear already! But I digress. Hi-Pan's alert stage is also breathtaking - it's gorgeous and there should be a whole zone that incorporates something like that (but with travel powers activated). There's a lot of variety in CO, and every so often I find a new gem that I genuinely enjoy. I'm sorry you're not getting the same out of it.
Yes, L.I. is a rampage/alert mission.
Each one her definition I suppose? For me, to feel superheroic is not about to fly or not to fly. And the last time I felt superheroic was in DCUO where I had to rush to save a depressed guy from his suicidal attempt, where I was stoping (not killing) a thief, where I was helping the local police with an arrest, etc... I felt more like I was doing heroic deeds rather than super-mundane chores (save the cats).
Based on your preferences and criterias, many korean mmos have beautiful flight skills and beautiful scenes and fast-action combats.
In conclusion, you still talk a lot about what CO is not and only see partially what it is.
Number 1 complaint is CO is done lack luster and you can tell by the minimum effort put into certain things. So yes, if CO wants to keep up with modern games they should update npc and mobs costumes like red banner. You can tell that the default AT costumes were thrown together in less than a minute and uploaded without a second look. Then we have stuff like Blaze sidekick which has no excuse for looking so pre school level creation. I could expect this from players but not devs. [img]https://i.imgur.com/gqRoWUv.png[/img] Look at the wings, what is that? And old default costume piece. Like they couldn't create some type of angel fire wings at the time. They color this on first take with 4 primary colors and release it without ever looking back. The lock box does provide good costume pieces but the delivery on the SK is repulsive. I don't want to sound bashful but I do often regret buying certain sidekicks after I equip them. [img]https://i.imgur.com/iJcgxcm.jpg[/img] another example is Ms Mayhem. I can't tell if she is in a power armor or recycled trash cosplay of an iron dragon. Her suit suppose to be PA but her back head and hair is exposed? And all the nonsense parts that don't work together. This was made so long ago and we have new robot parts now.
Another major problem CO has with first time players who review the game is they have no idea what the hell they doing. Small tiny messages pop on the side of the screen but people don't read em. Messages like these should pop as big as 25 percent of screen and allow Socrates to speak to you with her face and speech bubble. Making it more engaging. I played CO for 2 years before I started to understand stuff like roles. Then I started with a hybrid so I was really lost like why is this trash AT so trashy. And try several other ones till I got FF. Also think the CO need more lovable heroes. Defender standing in ren center is not enough when he is the face of CO and no one respects him. It would be cool if defender attacked players OV or walked around or just be lovable as Ironman or Thor.
Devs can literally throw CCs or ask players to give ideas on how to update characters because I've seen players do really good remakes of CO characters that put the ones in game to shame. Simply just throw out old looks and make things look 2020. (I really hope devs read this)
Reading this thread made me realize how much Nihilist I have become with CO
From optimist when I first started playing to accepting mediocrity of on-alert declined updates to the current state
Even when making suggestion threads I know they will get ignored and Bug reports thread won't be priority unless is game breaking bug or it's associated with a "current" powerframe revamp... which we wont even get until next year
Nothing will change unless PWE stop treating CO like the unloving step-child and give it more love and Devs, anyway see you 3 months (since Vigilante Lockbox)for the next Lockbox tied with christmas
At least CO makes great Videogame discussion with friends, their reaction "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE MMORPG YOU BEEN PLAYING HAS ONLY 1 ACTIVE DEV?"
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Jack Fool got an update recently as well as some mobs but so much time in between those I start to wonder if they have forgotten.
Imagine if the reaction you have if you see It Ironman in real life say that if superheros were real. Compare it to Defender. I'd be like 'HOLY SHOOT THAT'S IRONMAN!' then I'll run across a minefield of bullets and falling missiles to see Ironman closer. I'm not saying that CO can put up with the high success of Marvel and all its heroes. But I'm not saying they can't or even try. I feel like the passion of being a young person with dream to push his idea of pushing the CO Universe into the world is lost.
When I see Defender Im like Who is this guy? No I don't have a moment you prick I need to rank up this build. Why does Freon Discription say 'Greneric ice person.' Is this meant to be a joke? Can you say more on this joke? Are we even trying to get players invested. I have such a hard time believing that these characters are tied to the world I'm being told they are in.
I'm pretty invested in CO and will never leave. I don't care for long term grinds even if I want the item. It just seem pointless to me. Grinding nemesis for years and not even being half way. They need to look at all that over priced grind stuff and slash the cost in half. When people ask for stuff to do I dought its spending pointless hours on a item that is seemly impossible to get and overvalued.
Meanwhile XP alerts are sucking the life blood out every single player in its path. And they don't realise that it's forcing us to stand around indifferent and get sick of gaming real quick. *Drop XP alerts! Or convert them to smash. *CASH alerts are fine. *We need open zones with raid bosses and monsters that drop Large XP. Rather. I don't really get the dynamic of XP alerts. Are they simulations? Are they field tests? Is this really happening now and sending heroes to save the day. What the hell is going on and where am I?!?!? Fine XP alerts are never dropped. But there is still no engagement. Where is the saving people from burning building and stuff, fighting on roof tops? You know... superhero? They could make alerts like these. Or one like Knighthawk but without vehicles and players will jump from roof tops to take out mobs. There is a major LACK of creativity. It's the same problem movie makers have with superheroes they have the basic idea of what a superhero is but failing to get it right. Burning building alert pls.
Number 1 complaint is CO is done lack luster and you can tell by the minimum effort put into certain things. So yes, if CO wants to keep up with modern games they should update npc and mobs costumes like red banner. You can tell that the default AT costumes were thrown together in less than a minute and uploaded without a second look. Then we have stuff like Blaze sidekick which has no excuse for looking so pre school level creation. I could expect this from players but not devs.
Look at the wings, what is that? And old default costume piece. Like they couldn't create some type of angel fire wings at the time. They color this on first take with 4 primary colors and release it without ever looking back. The lock box does provide good costume pieces but the delivery on the SK is repulsive. I don't want to sound bashful but I do often regret buying certain sidekicks after I equip them. another example is Ms Mayhem. I can't tell if she is in a power armor or recycled trash cosplay of an iron dragon. Her suit suppose to be PA but her back head and hair is exposed? And all the nonsense parts that don't work together. This was made so long ago and we have new robot parts now.
Another major problem CO has with first time players who review the game is they have no idea what the hell they doing. Small tiny messages pop on the side of the screen but people don't read em. Messages like these should pop as big as 25 percent of screen and allow Socrates to speak to you with her face and speech bubble. Making it more engaging. I played CO for 2 years before I started to understand stuff like roles. Then I started with a hybrid so I was really lost like why is this trash AT so trashy. And try several other ones till I got FF. Also think the CO need more lovable heroes. Defender standing in ren center is not enough when he is the face of CO and no one respects him. It would be cool if defender attacked players OV or walked around or just be lovable as Ironman or Thor.
Devs can literally throw CCs or ask players to give ideas on how to update characters because I've seen players do really good remakes of CO characters that put the ones in game to shame. Simply just throw out old looks and make things look 2020. (I really hope devs read this)
Well, on Ms Mayhem, she is one of the community created villains, they used what people had at the time mostly. But i agree on the rest, they could be more unique, On-Alert killed most of the game sadly anyway with vehicles on top. Look at Forum Malvanum with it'S DPS race, no new enemys besides Firewing and the Dog things. You would expect more variety fo aliens there and not some street gang put in if it is at least not a super villian with them.
Imagine the Forum a big clash of factions and villains fighting each other, a big battle royal. as a true Arena fight, last man/team standing. But overall not a fan o f this alert system, it is basically every generic dungeon browser in other games, making the world empty and basically wasted that it got designed due people onyl stay in the main hub/city and spam those instead.
(...)Nothing will change unless PWE stop treating CO like the unloving step-child and give it more love and Devs, (...)
PWE is not the developer of CO. The IP still belongs to Cryptic Studios but they gave up on CO a long time ago. Actually even before OnAlert update, the game was already in maintenance mode.
You're not pointing toward the correct target and you're lucky that PWE is still actively publishing this failed mmo.
Comments
Fisrt, the formulation is biased. "Is the game a success in giving me hundreds of hours of entertainment for very little money?"
As I've already explained this question only provides a data to measure a success, not the whole measure of success as writen in the quote. Therefore I repeat and confirm that the moment a single data is extrapolated as a whole measure, it is an absolute.
Second, the distinction between you and the others in this matter is false. There's no such valid thing as your metric and the metrics of others. That's definitely not how we can measure a success.
Third, the excluding (they're excluding optional answers to allow only 1 possible answer) and echoeing words of game and entertainment.
A game is, per definition, designed to provide entertainment.
This question is comparable to ask : "Is a pen a success in providing me hours of writing for very little money?"
Errhmm... no.
Have a good day.
What a weird pen
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
What I personally wished for was more creative tools. Back during one of the player surges, when big content was easier to justify, adding more creative tools like mission builders and house/base editors and such. Things that would let the players become a strong source of content in itself. Really take advantage of the customization in this game to the maximum and forge a good niche there. Going hard into the dev created theme-park route for content proved too hard to sustain. As it is it makes the main content feel like it dries up after running through only a few alts.
Now it's just too late to do anything like that. Making those tools really functional and player friendly takes a lot of work, work they wouldn't be able to justify now.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The costume creator is one of the hallmark reasons to play CO and the default AT costumes sooo do not sell the product.
The Devs have been updating Millennium City citizens and NPCs with updated outfits and proportions (thank you Devs). Now, please get whoever has been designing the sidekick devices to overhaul those AT costumes. Better yet, hold a Dev CC to have people redesign the AT costumes. You have amazing designers in the player base.
Says "Game was never a success" but it has lasted 11 years. OK. THEN.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Oh sure, I bet Champions is just drowning in money.
Length of time active is not how I define success. Champions is just barely in the black. The moment it dips in the red? Well, looks like superhero aficionados will have to turn to the Distinguished Competition. There was a post I replied to earlier that echoed my views exactly.
But you've always been Miss Contrarian and I have no interest in retreading old ground.
This argument is the equal of saying someone who has been in a coma connected to a ventilator for 11 years is alive and healthy.
And this one is just silly hyperbole.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
As said before, "a game Just lasting for sake of lasting don't make any game a successful game." by that logic, WoW that lasted more than 11 years hit that title of being successful by far, even with its problems that know by the globe, while a game like DCUO have by 2x amount of people playing it and have a [Very Positive Review] Vs [Mixed Review] by Champion online Via Steam
And DCUO a game that most have you being a sidekick has been around for 9 years, And that only 2 years apart from Champions Online.
I understand the defending and stuff... but This Game needs to improve, BY ALOT! Like this game is getting hit with negative reviews left and right / getting more negative reviews than positive, And FYI people will pay attention to these things.
it is easy for me to say this game is a "success" but I will be the only one if not of very few saying this. a few people saying this game is Successful doesn't make this game a Successful, but if anything it will be Successful to you and only few who think the same, at least when it comes to this game as of now.
As I'm getting from everyone who saying this game is successful or is a success is: This game is a success by not improving, or by not even trying to improve.
we do want this game to improve right? with its hundreds of bugs and underperforming powers, right?
Son! Marvel Heroes is dead, and City of heroes is revived and I would say yes, by far more successful then champions online will ever be, sadly. it the only one that has a revive, I can only question if this game will ever get that. and for marvel heroes, it had over thousands of players thanks to it IP, I'm 100% sure it died rich, and sadly from a business perspective, That Success!
Based on your definition of success, there's certainly at least one person who's having hours of fun there so yes, there are absolutely successes.
If you want to get annoyed over a silly (but fun) super hero game that is your decision but I have always found that an odd way to live. I think you overthink games. You either like something or you don't. If you do not like a game why do you even care? I personally dislike WoW so I do not give it much thought. Heck I do not give games I even like much thought.
But as we all should try to be kind and help each other in these trying times I am giving you a TOP TIP why don't you have some fun playing one of the many "indie CoH spiritual successors" you used to like telling us about all those years ago? They must be well out of their betas and content rich by now >:D
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Criticizing a game is not the same as disliking it.
Also, you must be confusing me with someone else. I was the chief skeptic of those "spiritual successor" games and always ridiculed them whenever I had the opportunity.
I said and stand by my statement; that CoH: Homecoming returning was the worst thing that could have happened for all of those projects, the ones which were never more than vaporware and the real ones.
Who needs a successor game when the old one, but better is now right there and free to play to boot?
If you are saying you moan because you love you must really love CO.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
so you saying the game is fine as it is than? no improvements? no undo's?
Also any person who criticize something may have more love than a person who don't criticize anything...
I've thought about and read about that disconnect with current superhero popularity a fair bit. I think I'm inclined toward the theory that the great majority of contemporary fans of these characters and stories today have become aware of them through movies and television, which are essentially media of passive consumption. Everything is handed to them in explicit detail -- characters, dialogue, plot lines. There isn't much of an imaginative dimension which would naturally lead them to think of role playing in such a setting. Even though the source comic books are a greatly visual medium, the inherent limitations of a two-dimensional static image and silent word balloons mean the readers are more actively participating by adding their own subtext to flesh them out.
Well yeah, I wanted it to be the best thing it could be. Is that so wrong? To want the best for something you enjoy?
Hell, I just started delving into the PnP RPG it's based on and it really could be more.
I might be getting mellow in my old age I actually meant that with all honesty. I think hanging around in Runescape too much made younger me super aggressive
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Now I'm back and I'm glad it's still here, but I feel like the game could be so much more than it is currently.
Thing is, it's not bad. A lot of the little revamps have gone a long way - especially the way Westside was made a little more coherent, and the way alerts let you just jump right in and get down.
What I would love to see would be a good community push for this game. There's an "Event" every week, and there's all kinds of relevant stuffs out there for CO to bring in new players. And the thing is, there is a steady stream of new players all the time, even tho it may not be that many.
I propose a fan campaign to bring some attention to CO. For newbies, there's enough meat and potatoes to really enjoy, and if we get a decent enough population, maybe there'll be some more development like the "Series" thing that's out now.
What we need to do tho, is make sure CO stands on its own, as its own. I think a big problem was when it first released, too many people expected CoH 2, which this is not.
One thing that DCUO does that bugs me is it basically has 2 fighting systems - a combo based brawler, and the usual click rotation you see in MMOs. CoH was just click rotation, which got old quick.
CO has a different style - much more interactive. It also has a different visual style - DCUO has some weird as poses for everything, it looks awkward. CoH was much more.... realistic? (I would say basic; I loved it, but nothing about it stood out).
I wish we had the mission making system NW had (has?) because that would also be a huge boon to the game - the Bethesda titles are blessed by the modding community, and CO could have had something like that too; farm out the work!!
Anyway, I don't see it as "what could have been," we should take it as, "lets make it happen."
Oh no we can expect lots of stuff like current content made a pain in the butt to play and powers and device nerfed because no fun allowed. GET HYPED PEOPLE \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
or bring attention to this game, Since this game doesn't really exist, but yet still it a large order to fill However though, since they're not much to show within this game since it is kinda limited, and boring in most terms unless you playing the carrot game with events, and such... unless this game is to improve... but until then not much anyone can do but wait and hope that the Devs can get this game to its primes.
And a reminder if not seen before this game got a Mixed Review...
As I'm not really in the mood to waste my time to attempt to talk to deaf fanbois who would either stalk me all over the forum to pin every possible error in my comments (the most annoying part is that i end up to correct that stalker) or reduce definitions down to naive simplicisms, I'll pass on my opinion.
Someone already talked about the missing key to put CO back on successful rails : there's no direction, no plan.
Last example : vehicle nerfs.
No not that - What I'm saying is we have a good community with diverse talents. We have player run costume contests, all kinds of artists and everyone and their mom has facebook/instagram/whatever. It's also my understanding somebody was doing youtube videos for CO at some point but is now in classes or something. I've seen live streams with THOUSANDS of viewers for mobile/facebook games like Hero Wars, where the entire content is "buy emeralds with real money, unlock stuffs, watch little guys fight." I think we can meet that high bar.
What I'm saying is we combine these things. All we need to do is donate time and skills, but there needs to be a cohesive theme.
In a perfect world (hurr) we'd have Cryptic's backing and maybe coordinate a thing. Jan 1, 2021 is a Friday - gonna be a lot of hungover folks with a long weekend ahead of them, a lot of kids out of school for like a week with parents who want some free time, and like 50% of the entire planet stuck at home with nowhere to go. CO will have the most captive audience possible of any time in recorded history.
"New Year, New Champions!!"
Ring in 2021 by showing off your new hero!
(If Cryptic pitches in, maybe do a sale of some kind - Lifetime Sub Sale for the game that's lasted 11 years and counting! 1 New Freeform Champion for everyone! Give em a taste Cryptic!!! Make em WANT IT.)
Some folks with youtube voices could do a short series - not quite a walkthrough, but a glance at highlights - 5 mins in the tutorial "Defending from Aliens: Learn to Block!!," (intercut montage of big hits from little bugs to Qwyjibo) 5 mins in Westside/Canada/Desert "Develop your character's signature: Pick a main attack," (show off some of the favorite powers and how to make them work) 5 mins in Vibora "Feel the magic: A build comes together through skills, specialization, and gear," (show off some of the more impressive stuff - wiping out 30 guys, going toe to toe with Destroids), 5 mins doing all the other stuff "Lots of world to save: Always on Alert" (5 mins of just jumping into quick play matches and look at longer style raids and storyarcs), "Something Old, Something New" (5 mins of the stuff nobody else has - costume contests, vehicles, nemesis system, transform devices, flaming pumpkins, giant growth, swinging and ink travel powers, vehicles).
Little ad-like segments leading to something like a Twitch/lets play with something like Suggest a hero! - have a blank lvl 40 with a retcon and heirloom gear ready to go, have a few different suggestions from ppl in the comments - theme, powers, background, name - and do a quick build of whatever, and slap together a quick 4 color costume to match, and take them for a test drive through alerts. We could write into our favorite review folks on youtube, podcasts, and wherever unsolicited opinions are sold, and ask em to take a look at the game around Christmas (the holiday period when ppl have days off, but only just enough time to check things out briefly before having to rush to Target for those last minute gift socks) pique audience interest, make em come back for the big one a week later.
Put up a release schedule, and everybody shares it with everybody on whatever feed(s) they use - every week, something comes up leading to the live stream, maybe a costume contest and giveaway or something. Straight up, I'll donate 20 keys and a vehicle if something comes together.
The thing is, CO needs to find its theme. Don't sell it as CoH2. Don't sell it as Jack Emmerts stillborn baby. Don't sell it as competition to all the MMOs out there. Sell it for what it is. Wanna PVP hunters v. werewolves? You can. Wanna do temple raids, or fight giant teddy bears? You can. Want to uncover a plot by your very own, custom designed villain to... do something? You can. Wanna go on an epic story arc that will probably take a few days to get through? You can. Team up with randos for a 2 minute drill? Fight a supervillain in a 10 man brawl? Take on a Giant dino with 40 other players? Defend against 2 giant robots invading downtown? Take on a tower of mutated organisms culminating in a tactical battle against a weird mad scientist as a telepathic drunken hobo frog wielding swordfish? YOU CAN.
You can do whatever you want.
Be heroic, resilient, versatile. Be a Champion. Online.
Those are my thoughts while I avoid work.
I'm not actually sure this is true, although i'm not deeply familiar with Champions lore like you are. But Worm strikes me as a reasonable competitor in terms of depth and coherency, if not breadth. (Although it does manage to be pretty broad). (I would be thrilled by a CRPG set in the Worm universe).
As I'm currently reading through all of the Champions material, I can confirm how deep and rich it is with its universe. It is very close to being on the level of the Big Two.
Grab Alerts
Smash Alerts
Burst Alerts
Alerts
Well, the Champions PnP RPG was first published in 1981. Over the following decades it was contributed to by scores of authors, and has gone through six editions of the rules of play, as well as several iterations of the Champions Universe. The current official version of the setting is detailed in over two dozen source books (not counting rule books, and those set in non-super past or future eras). It features a detailed time line stretching hundreds of thousands of years into the past, and a thousand years into the future. It includes full backgrounds and game stats for over four hundred official characters, heroic, villainous, and neutral, and it names and outlines many others. It surveys "super" activity in nations on every continent on the planet, including Antarctica, with fully-statted characters from them. It discusses how society has adapted to the presence of superhumans, in law, media, and technology. The CU includes many detailed alien planets, alternate-universe versions of Earth, and a multiverse of supernatural "dimensions," including their inhabitants. It also names nearly eighty sapient races inhabiting the Milky Way Galaxy, some described in great detail, i.e. history, culture, technology, even some notable individuals. Numbered among named (and sometimes statted) entities are the gods and demons of all known religions and mythologies, cosmic-powered "space gods," supernatural "dimension lords," and intelligences embodying fundamental concepts of Reality.
To be completely fair, there are quite a few elements in the Champions Universe which are analogous to those from DC and Marvel, although they almost always have a distinctive spin to them. That was a deliberate choice. The CU authors weren't trying to reinvent the superhero wheel, but to provide a world for gaming for superhero comic fans that would include many of the familiar concepts and tropes they're used to and expect.
One area I do think Champions does even better than Marvel or DC, is dig into the practical impacts and implications of the presence of superheroes. For example, how are supers and super-powers treated legally and culturally, in America and other nations? What's been the effect of super-technology on warfare, medicine, space exploration, pollution and global warming? What is the lasting legacy of prehistoric civilizations, and multiple alien invasions? Most of these things aren't necessary to know to enjoy playing in the setting, but if you want your role playing to be woven from a more colorful and resilient fabric, it's there.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but if it's to say that none of the other content is relevant anymore, I only partially agree. All the other content is still there, it's just that we, as a player-base, have seen it and just want to get to the quick payoffs. If there's a double xp from missions, there would likely be a flurry of attention to that for leveling, just like all the other event stuff. But for NEW players, the stories are still there, as are the experiences.
I think a huge help would be to add a quick team option (if that's even possible) for ppl on the same mission. One of the joys of CoH was meeting ppl and teaming up when something was a bit tough. We have a share mission button for teams already made but with different missions, we should have a team-up button for ppl on the same mission, but with no team.
As for this, no idea what you're saying. You disagree with CO having it's own visual style, or the gameplay thing? Either way, I partly agree with you - CO is off the rails. We do need a direction/plan. CO has no overarching plot, or endgame. CoH had Lord Recluse as a general bogeyman, but each faction had a long form cohesive storyline. WoW was, essentially, moving up military ranks through an ongoing war. DCEU is trying to prevent doomsday. Each subsequent release/update followed up on or expanded the themes. CO doesn't seem to have that. There's Shadow Destroyer and the Qularr invasion, but there doesn't seem to be much payoff, except maybe in the QWZ, which I haven't seen yet because it's so gated off. Most of our villains just appear for a short one-off and they're done and gone; and you typically fight the big bad for each org after like 3-5 missions.
I remember one moment that really stood out to me was when Babbage first appeared after you exit a mission and I was taken aback and excited. Similarly, in WoW, an early mission was helping save a farm from gnolls or something for a farmer. Nothing like that happens here. The world feels empty and littered. Yes, there's bad guys everywhere, but nothing ties them together or makes the world feel alive. There's no NPCs with their own stories and motivations that need your help. It's all Surhoff telling you to go arrest somebody, or Martha Reece's damn cats.
Bottom line is this: CO needs to make money. That's what the game was made for. But to do that, it needs players. So my pitch is to bring in the players by pointing out what CO IS, rather than by fixating on what it's not, and hopefully by increasing it's profile and bringing in some new players, it might still improve some.
I also think there's enough of us here that love the game that would be willing to put in some extra effort to improve things. Every time I look at Bluhman's guides I'm blown away by the effort, detail, and humor. There's simple stuff too. Someone mentioned yesterday that the "trick or treat" voices sounded like "Cryptic didn't want to pay voice actors so they got Martha from HR to read the lines," and it got me thinking - we all have voices, we can all be Martha - we can help fill in gaps.
Cryptic could release script excerpts, accept 30 second line readings and select VOLUNTEERS (i.e. NOT PAID) to fill some of the missing VO. Start with some of the alerts that only have partial voices so it's less jarring when bubbles come up, but only half have voices. Heck, it could even be a contest - those selected get a free AT or something.
So yes, I am a fanboy, but I'm not deaf or blind. I know it's not perfect, but even if CO stays as is, I'll still be here for a while, because I do actually enjoy the game. I just did Lemurian Invasion for the first time last night, and MY GOD it was AMAZING to fly around at full speed blasting jets and fighting a giant monster. THAT felt like superheroing. I wish there were MORE areas where your travel power was actually useful in combat (and make the camdist farther away so you can see stuffs). Flight is just too damn slow. All the powers are. I get they were limited at one point for balance and for low end PCs but it's 11 years later, give us a damn 4th gear already! But I digress. Hi-Pan's alert stage is also breathtaking - it's gorgeous and there should be a whole zone that incorporates something like that (but with travel powers activated). There's a lot of variety in CO, and every so often I find a new gem that I genuinely enjoy. I'm sorry you're not getting the same out of it.
I've read that ideally your wish would be to get Cryptic's attention but you're doing these suggestions in the wrong format.
Look what they did with the tutorial and you should understand my point : https://arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/11477343-return-to-the-qularr-invasion%21
No, it's the part where you said that CoH had a more realistic visual style that made me laughed.
Hint : running scared citizens.
These are many flaws in the design which prevent CO to be immersive :
-there are too many bad guys everywhere.
-players are not invited to be part of any super-stories.
-rewards are not incentive to replay the missions.
-heroes should not kill, this doesn't fit with heroic virtues and values.
Etc etc... but these flaws are here from the beginning so it'll require to redesign CO from start.
Here again, that's a fail approach. A successful product makes money but don't make a product for the money.
The fact that CO can't make enough money is also tied to this flawed design that doesn't sell.
Paradoxically you're speaking a lot about what CO is not and not so much about what CO is (last example : the Alerts).
Wait? You want CO to become a mmo reworked and maintained by amateurs?
Yes, L.I. is a rampage/alert mission.
Each one her definition I suppose? For me, to feel superheroic is not about to fly or not to fly. And the last time I felt superheroic was in DCUO where I had to rush to save a depressed guy from his suicidal attempt, where I was stoping (not killing) a thief, where I was helping the local police with an arrest, etc... I felt more like I was doing heroic deeds rather than super-mundane chores (save the cats).
Based on your preferences and criterias, many korean mmos have beautiful flight skills and beautiful scenes and fast-action combats.
In conclusion, you still talk a lot about what CO is not and only see partially what it is.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/gqRoWUv.png[/img]
Look at the wings, what is that? And old default costume piece. Like they couldn't create some type of angel fire wings at the time. They color this on first take with 4 primary colors and release it without ever looking back. The lock box does provide good costume pieces but the delivery on the SK is repulsive. I don't want to sound bashful but I do often regret buying certain sidekicks after I equip them.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/iJcgxcm.jpg[/img] another example is Ms Mayhem. I can't tell if she is in a power armor or recycled trash cosplay of an iron dragon. Her suit suppose to be PA but her back head and hair is exposed? And all the nonsense parts that don't work together. This was made so long ago and we have new robot parts now.
Another major problem CO has with first time players who review the game is they have no idea what the hell they doing. Small tiny messages pop on the side of the screen but people don't read em. Messages like these should pop as big as 25 percent of screen and allow Socrates to speak to you with her face and speech bubble. Making it more engaging. I played CO for 2 years before I started to understand stuff like roles. Then I started with a hybrid so I was really lost like why is this trash AT so trashy. And try several other ones till I got FF. Also think the CO need more lovable heroes. Defender standing in ren center is not enough when he is the face of CO and no one respects him. It would be cool if defender attacked players OV or walked around or just be lovable as Ironman or Thor.
Devs can literally throw CCs or ask players to give ideas on how to update characters because I've seen players do really good remakes of CO characters that put the ones in game to shame. Simply just throw out old looks and make things look 2020. (I really hope devs read this)
From optimist when I first started playing to accepting mediocrity of on-alert declined updates to the current state
Even when making suggestion threads I know they will get ignored and Bug reports thread won't be priority unless is game breaking bug or it's associated with a "current" powerframe revamp... which we wont even get until next year
Nothing will change unless PWE stop treating CO like the unloving step-child and give it more love and Devs, anyway see you 3 months (since Vigilante Lockbox)for the next Lockbox tied with christmas
At least CO makes great Videogame discussion with friends, their reaction "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE MMORPG YOU BEEN PLAYING HAS ONLY 1 ACTIVE DEV?"
Imagine if the reaction you have if you see It Ironman in real life say that if superheros were real. Compare it to Defender. I'd be like 'HOLY SHOOT THAT'S IRONMAN!' then I'll run across a minefield of bullets and falling missiles to see Ironman closer. I'm not saying that CO can put up with the high success of Marvel and all its heroes. But I'm not saying they can't or even try. I feel like the passion of being a young person with dream to push his idea of pushing the CO Universe into the world is lost.
When I see Defender Im like Who is this guy? No I don't have a moment you prick I need to rank up this build. Why does Freon Discription say 'Greneric ice person.' Is this meant to be a joke? Can you say more on this joke? Are we even trying to get players invested. I have such a hard time believing that these characters are tied to the world I'm being told they are in.
I'm pretty invested in CO and will never leave. I don't care for long term grinds even if I want the item. It just seem pointless to me. Grinding nemesis for years and not even being half way. They need to look at all that over priced grind stuff and slash the cost in half. When people ask for stuff to do I dought its spending pointless hours on a item that is seemly impossible to get and overvalued.
Meanwhile XP alerts are sucking the life blood out every single player in its path. And they don't realise that it's forcing us to stand around indifferent and get sick of gaming real quick.
*Drop XP alerts! Or convert them to smash.
*CASH alerts are fine.
*We need open zones with raid bosses and monsters that drop Large XP.
Rather. I don't really get the dynamic of XP alerts. Are they simulations? Are they field tests? Is this really happening now and sending heroes to save the day. What the hell is going on and where am I?!?!?
Fine XP alerts are never dropped. But there is still no engagement. Where is the saving people from burning building and stuff, fighting on roof tops? You know... superhero? They could make alerts like these. Or one like Knighthawk but without vehicles and players will jump from roof tops to take out mobs. There is a major LACK of creativity. It's the same problem movie makers have with superheroes they have the basic idea of what a superhero is but failing to get it right. Burning building alert pls.
Well, on Ms Mayhem, she is one of the community created villains, they used what people had at the time mostly. But i agree on the rest, they could be more unique, On-Alert killed most of the game sadly anyway with vehicles on top. Look at Forum Malvanum with it'S DPS race, no new enemys besides Firewing and the Dog things. You would expect more variety fo aliens there and not some street gang put in if it is at least not a super villian with them.
Imagine the Forum a big clash of factions and villains fighting each other, a big battle royal. as a true Arena fight, last man/team standing. But overall not a fan o f this alert system, it is basically every generic dungeon browser in other games, making the world empty and basically wasted that it got designed due people onyl stay in the main hub/city and spam those instead.
She's already very busy muting and censoring every "unfaithful" member, she can't do everything at the same time, heh.
PWE is not the developer of CO. The IP still belongs to Cryptic Studios but they gave up on CO a long time ago. Actually even before OnAlert update, the game was already in maintenance mode.
You're not pointing toward the correct target and you're lucky that PWE is still actively publishing this failed mmo.