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What could have been

It's tragic that this game was never a success. It has nice flavor to it now that I've returned after a few years of absence. Last time I logged in was two years ago. But, y'know, lifetime sub, so that chair's always warm for me. Still, sad that barely anything's been added. It's a game frozen in time almost. Oh well, at least it's still up....

Comments

  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,935 Arc User
    Splashier, more hyped superhero MMOs have fallen by the wayside since Champions came online. I think it depends on how you define "success."
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    Oh? What were those? I've never heard of them.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 1,935 Arc User
    City of Heroes, of course, and Marvel Heroes, both come to mind.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    City of Heroes was around for years before CO was ever a thing. I migrated here after it was shut down. Marvel Heroes you may have had a point on.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,744 Arc User
    edited September 10
    I think considering everything , CO has been a success.

    It may not have been the success which had millions of players worldwide or always had a full dev team, but the community it has kept which has fluctuated over the years, has really been a core part of keeping CO active.

    I mean...CO had a phase where it had "zero development" for around 10 months, as in nothing was added to the game...and that was in 2012/2013...and it is still alive and had had content additions & power set reviews since.

    Take a look at Patch Notes since you last logged in and read through them since you're back on forums, you might be surprised.

    I do agree, I wish there was more money poured into CO especially considering how well things like MCU took off, it would have been a super smart move to beef up CO, and put it out there again...but it is an old game which has now been around for 11 years...I think the ability for it to be around this long speaks to it being a success in its own right.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,222 Arc User
    edited September 10
    All the Spiritual Successors of CoH.
    Oh, wait...Those weren't even made. :#
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,891 Arc User
    Maybe the op could define what they mean by "success"?
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    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,222 Arc User
    edited September 10
    Imagine that, coming back after 2 years and all you can do is a post like that.
    :#
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    All the Spiritual Successors of CoH.
    Oh, wait...Those weren't even made. :#

    That made me chuckle. Thanks. Needed that.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Maybe the op could define what they mean by "success"?

    Oh, a little more development that what we've seen. The game always felt like Cryptic's red-headed step-child, given little crumbs here and there. I would have loved a new zone, even if it was half the size of Millennium City. And the Nemesis system was always my pet interest, I would have loved that expanded. Otherwise we were just getting vehicles and monthly events. Nothing I could really bite my teeth into.
  • Interesting. what kind of updates/content are you interested in seeing added to co? @kojirohellfire.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    I enjoy being told stories. I notice there's a new thing about the Cobra Lords which is a pleasant surprise when I signed in earlier this week. Just having that little bit of extra bit of content to do made my day.
  • Ok so mission wise. I feel that other zones like VB and Lumeria could be used more for these type of stories and events as well instead of just existing for existing sake.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    Lemuria fascinates me. Truly a zone that could use more attention, otherwise it's "that place everyone and their grandmother avoids."
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,522 Arc User
    I need to make myself do the Lemurian stuff...I just hate the layout. It’s a pretty place but man...those caves.

    Would love a Apoc version of Lemurian one where the waters have been drained.
  • metalheart#4270 metalheart Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited September 10
    I feel like with repetitive content players (like me) need a reason to be pushed towards doing. Other wise it gets avoided.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,891 Arc User
    We did get the QWZ zone for end game, but not that many people are interested in it after Eido broke.

    They did add Save the Earth which uses one person's Nemesis each time.

    Sounds like for you lots of new content = success?
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Maybe the op could define what they mean by "success"?

    Oh, a little more development that what we've seen. The game always felt like Cryptic's red-headed step-child, given little crumbs here and there. I would have loved a new zone, even if it was half the size of Millennium City. And the Nemesis system was always my pet interest, I would have loved that expanded. Otherwise we were just getting vehicles and monthly events. Nothing I could really bite my teeth into.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,891 Arc User
    You know, you spend hardly any times in caves doing the Lemuria missions (maybe you are thinking of the Unity stuff?). I'm leveling another character know and look forward to another run through those missions. I just wish there were enough missions that once you got to Lemuria you could level to 40 while staying there. Can't do that without a double XP boost.
    I need to make myself do the Lemurian stuff...I just hate the layout. It’s a pretty place but man...those caves.

    Would love a Apoc version of Lemurian one where the waters have been drained.

    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    We did get the QWZ zone for end game, but not that many people are interested in it after Eido broke.

    The QWZ? Can you perhaps assume that I have no idea what that abbreviation stands for?
    They did add Save the Earth which uses one person's Nemesis each time.

    Tell me more?
    Sounds like for you lots of new content = success?

    Something like that, but not quite. New content is tricky because on the one hand it brings in players, but on the other hand new content needs to be justified by having said players. Generally, content rolling in is a sign that the game is generally successful because it has the money to produce it. From what I recall it was determined that CO was just kind of... breaking even.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 775 Arc User
    If you could, say, on a Daily basis, replay any and all missions AND all NPCs scaled to your level AND the rewards were worth it (even Tokens of some sort so that I can purchase the gear/items I want) would go a long way in restoring this game.

    I play a game that does this. It's almost as old as Champs. It gets stale too. But when you can go anywhere and do any repeatable content and it is fun and fulfilling, that makes a huge difference.


    But, something like this would take a massive overhaul. I don't see that ever happening.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,891 Arc User
    QWZ = Qilpthothic (sp?) War Zone. It's a dark purpley hell landscape zone with Nightmare Event Horrors, Elder Worms, Demon cultists and Multifarian Destroid stuff. After you get through 9 training missions you can do 5 daily missions that get you 20 scr, and if you do the dailies 5 times you get an extra 20 scr and 5 gcr (in 5 days that is 120 scr and 5 gcr). It's some of the tougher end game content to try to solo (pretty easy with a partner/group). There are also 3 boss fights there that generate good rewards but no one tries to organize raids on those atm. The big bad uber boss was the Eidolon (Shadow Destroyer), but the devs broke him trying to create a challenge for the elite crew and he is no longer available and no one knows if the company owners will ever allow the devs to work on it again. To get started you need the Hermes Revisited mission from Bradley at the MC kiosk. If you are trying to get end game gear and need lots of scr this is the place to get it.

    Save the Earth is a newish alert that rotates in every 8 weeks (unless the devs mess something up). To be honest, most of the fight involves herding and fighting through usually an endless stream of your Nemesis's minions and if you do that successfully (not always certain, depending on your group) you get to fight your Nemesis at the end. This is probably the most despised alert in the rotation (even over Forum Malvanum and Cybermind) because of having to fight all the mooks. Still, it does have a Nemesis.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    Sounds intriguing. Hope the Eidolon gets fixed.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,891 Arc User
    If you ever want to try QWZ look me up and I'll take you through the Intro.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    Will do.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,300 Arc User
    I enjoy being told stories. I notice there's a new thing about the Cobra Lords which is a pleasant surprise when I signed in earlier this week. Just having that little bit of extra bit of content to do made my day.
    Indeed the game got Solo some story-driven missions
    Death Rattle followed by Serene Abyss, 4 missions each with the next and final Chapter being in Development!

    The mission structure, writing and the way the story unfolds may be a Hit or Miss but each mission gives different rewards and they are all Fully voiced!

    The most noticable criticism and complain about the series is that each mission is locked behind a 24 hours gate, you cannot proceed to the next part until the next day
    as well as the annoying back and forth between Westside and Downtown Lab
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Save the Earth is a newish alert that rotates in every 8 weeks (unless the devs mess something up). To be honest, most of the fight involves herding and fighting through usually an endless stream of your Nemesis's minions and if you do that successfully (not always certain, depending on your group) you get to fight your Nemesis at the end. This is probably the most despised alert in the rotation (even over Forum Malvanum and Cybermind) because of having to fight all the mooks. Still, it does have a Nemesis.
    Doesn't help it has some really annoying bugs that can make the Alert unbeatable
    Example: If someone attracts the mobs attention and move back to the Hall-Room, the Mobs will start spazzing and keep respawning, creating an unbeatable loop​​
    MORE POWERFRAME REVAMPS AND SYNERGIES PLEASE!
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    > @avianos said:
    > (Quote)
    > The most noticable criticism and complain about the series is that each mission is locked behind a 24 hours gate, you cannot proceed to the next part until the next day

    Sounds annoying.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,245 Arc User
    the game wanders on and it's always interesting to see what they're doing with it, but by now I think a player will know whether the direction of the game and the development is something that they are going to enjoy.

    I have always loathed CO's boss fights - I think they're one place where the age of the game really, really shows - and so Epic lairs, Therakiel etc have no interest. But clearly there is a market for that type of game and the players that like it are those that stay, so good luck to them.

    The QWZ was OK but the tasks got repetitive and the story made no sense. Story writing, throughout CO, is poor.

    Save The Earth was always something I rather enjoyed because it was less about bosses, but it just shows up the awful absence of team play in the game and the expectation of many players that they will either zerg through everything or be carried through.

    The Comic Series content was OK but I've played about half of it on one character and lost interest. Story writing is poor - or at least the story is so short it makes little sense - and the daily gate should only apply when the content is new. It's very rare that I play CO more than two days running, and this isn't strong enough to bring me back.

    Lemuria? An interesting zone and the one place where Vehicles could be used in their original configuration without being a problem in Cosmics or wherever. That might be something worth exploring.

    The main problem with any form of comeback to the game is nerfs. Ones which are done to ensure that there isn't a "go-to" power are really boring and have sapped my will to play the game - coming back after a break to find ten characters in need of a retcon is really frustrating. Vehicle nerfs and so on are the same. So I don't play much, at the moment.

  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 541 Arc User
    The game was a success before OnAlert update. After this, it's been sealed into a dead end.
    There's certainly less players each year, thanks to the Great Purge by the dev/moderator.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited September 16
    To be honest, I don't know if @kojirohellfire is trolling us a bit or seriously out of the loop on game history. Doesn't matter either way, success is measured by the fact, the game is still online and playable for over a decade. Could it have been better? Yes. It can get better, as there is no sign of it stopping.

    Marvel Heroes was mentioned.

    History Lesson
    Marvel Universe Online was the original working title of Champions Online. The game was developed by Cryptic Studios and was to be published by Microsoft Game Studios. In 2008, due to Microsoft pulling the project from the current marketplace, Cryptic Studios announced they would continue using a new intellectual property license related to Champions, a superhero role playing game. Gazillion Entertainment signed an exclusive 10-year deal to develop Marvel games.

    Also CoH was brought up.

    City of Heroes was developed by Cryptic Studios and published by NCSOFT. The game was launched in, 2004, and the last day the servers was up was on November 30, 2012. NCSOFT shut it down and not Cryptic Studios. Anything else is fans running pirated copies on servers elsewhere.

    There is only 2 ways for this game to fail and be removed. Perfect World has to decide to stop development and tell Cryptic to close the server. The other would be a sale of Cryptic Studios to another game publisher and that publisher would decide on the fate of all games under development at Cryptic Studios. In my opinion, PW should stop investing into the Universal Pictures flop films and keep production in their own TV, feature films, and blockbuster hits. Any financial liabilities are covered by the PW corporate umbrella.

    I would not call this game tragic by comparison to the other games, Cryptic Studios helped develop, and were toss in the garbage bin by those publishers.

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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    You lost me at the trolling accusation. Yeah, I've been out of the loop for the last two years. I even admitted that far prior to your post.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,818 Arc User
    The game was a success before OnAlert update. After this, it's been sealed into a dead end.
    There's certainly less players each year, thanks to the Great Purge by the dev/moderator.
    The game was not a success before On Alert, it was slowly bleeding players then just like it's slowly bleeding players now.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,747 Arc User
    It could have always been worse.

    The game is stable much in the way Dark Age of Camelot is. Hardly any major updates and few concurrent players, yet it gets a trickle of tuning and small content patches with existing assets.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • panthrax77panthrax77 Posts: 154 Arc User
    Yeah, I'd hardly say the game hasn't been a success. Arguably it's the most stable it's been in its life right now.

    As someone who has played since f2p, I really haven't noticed that much of a decline in the past 4 years or so. Sure old players leave, but there are enough new players to keep things going.

    Yeah, some dev decisions have been pretty crappy. Some nerfs are excessive, but most aren't without reason at least. I don't often agree with the focus of new content but I'm always grateful to see it when it comes.

    CO is, and has always been (for me at least), a laid back game that's kind of its own thing. I don't really talk about it to my IRL friends, despite that I've spent way too much time on it. But I always see that time as well spent, because at the end of the day, I'm enjoying making characters and trying new things, even after 8 or so years of playing.

    Of course it could be better. I think everyone agrees on that, and no doubt all of us here would love to see CO live up to its full potential. But given the game's shoddy engine, programming, limitations, relatively obscure IP, and aging infrastructure, I think they've done an okay job with it. And regardless of the "what if's," I'll proudly and happily look forward to many years ahead. :smile:
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 541 Arc User
    The game was a success before OnAlert update. After this, it's been sealed into a dead end.
    There's certainly less players each year, thanks to the Great Purge by the dev/moderator.
    The game was not a success before On Alert, it was slowly bleeding players then just like it's slowly bleeding players now.

    Champions Online was the 3rd best-seller PC title in 2009.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,522 Arc User
    Someone who has been playing the game for over 10 years shouldn’t criticize what is and isn’t a success.
  • I feel the biggest problem with CO is the sheer lack of new powersets for players to choose from; we got revamps of old powers every so often but the new ATs are just a rehash of existing powers with one or two new/recycled attacks added in to fill in the gaps. There's a real lack of variety for what we can choose, and even though Freeform is a thing you can't create a truly effective character if you pick too many differing abilities. The sole reason I haven't bothered to participate in Defender's National Training Program is because there isn't a powerset what interests me enough to play until a character is leveled to 40.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,065 Arc User
    Someone who has been playing the game for over 10 years shouldn’t criticize what is and isn’t a success.

    Good thing I've only played it for 8 then.
  • cbob312cbob312 Posts: 26 Arc User
    I think it's the failure to add a villains side combined with them getting Star Trek right after this. Or maybe that fed into it.
    Since then it's just been treading water.

    I wish this got as much love and attention as STO.
  • mastercontrol7mastercontrol7 Posts: 116 Arc User
    Allow me to Create a Traffic jam here.

    A successful game would be a game that is highly known, or have the player count compare to a game like Neverwinter online or Star Trak online, or at the impossible level of WoW or EVE online And Runescape, or made a lot of income Profits that not many people can confirmed if was or is a success.
    As of NOW, this game got the population of a disowned Korean MMO game, or a game just starting up in OB\Open Beta.

    what is not a successful MMO Game:

    A game with a low population.
    A game not know outside of its player base.
    A game that made little to not much profit during or after its launch.

    And This is a game with little to no content, and proceed to de-progress then to Progress, with only a small amount of things being changed over and over and over again.

    a game Just lasting for sake of lasting don't make any game a successful game.

    And This is by far a Fact.

    This game would be a Truly a Game changer to the public eye, a lot of MMO's would have taken notice of that, but sadly, no.
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