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Is the Glacier Useful in Endgame?
eviltwintwo
Posts: 352 Arc User
Being a silver player, I have standard slots, most of which I have filled with AT's. Some of the AT's are meh, others are actually fun. I'm a bit undecided on the Glacier; I just got mine to 40. I'm wondering if it can be used as a tank for endgame; my instinct says "no" because of its vulnerability to knockback and seeming lack of survivability.
If I go "all in" with Constitution, the specialization tree yields some knock resist, but is that enough?
If I go "all in" with Ego, could I skip using Challenge and go for a bit more damage?
Is the entirety of the Glacier's end-game usefulness dependent on Ice Cage with Sub-Zero Cellblock? And possibly soaking at dino?
If I go "all in" with Constitution, the specialization tree yields some knock resist, but is that enough?
If I go "all in" with Ego, could I skip using Challenge and go for a bit more damage?
Is the entirety of the Glacier's end-game usefulness dependent on Ice Cage with Sub-Zero Cellblock? And possibly soaking at dino?
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
In terms of cosmic, if you're starting out, you probably need a sponge or a really good healer that can focus heal you if you could maintank a cosmic. Kiga is probably going to be the biggest threat because you cannot really sponge damage his main spammy attack. I went in stacking with nothing but Con and got ~17k Hp, but lacks in threats and damage. You can add in a confront mod and get a secondary offense gear that allows you to get more threat (either cosmic offense secondary + R5 Confront or OV Defender Glove), and you should be able to hold threat just about almost all DPS, except for the extremely high end DPS and tanks that normally want to steal your aggro. As mention before, its a great baby tank.
Its very usable in TA as both main tank and offtank. You see, Invulnerability does an extremely good job in migrating all those tiny damage if you're going the OT route. For the offtank part, you would need to invest in Quick Healing Spec, Resolute Spec, and the Retribution Spec to passively heal yourself. On top of this, have a Rejuvenating Formula stack equipment at all times in your device slot. Regen Mod and Benign Symboite are nice to have if you can afford them if you want more stuff to help on your TA OT.
Outside of these particular end game content, you shouldn't have a problem at all in tanking all those event and OM stuff. The Glacier is a really great soloing character on top of this.
Here is a build I use to test and successfully tank the cosmics and TA.
EDIT: I meant to put in points in Retribution in the build but it went to Ruthless for some reason.
As for other content, just blocking in time takes care of most knocking issues. And, even if it doesn't, you're still better off spending points for other things.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
However, it can still be useful in endgame applications. Invulnerability makes you an effective offtank for things like TA and soaking cosmics. Just make sure your con is well stacked so you have around 15k HP.
Generally as long as your hp is high enough, you can tank just fine.
You're most useful in TA in tanking mobs, and that's where that knock resist spec is worth it.
If you want to main tank cosmics, you need some really good gear. Focus on Con but try to keep around 200 or so ego so you have some damage. Confront mods are your friends (unless there's a special ice threat mod I'm not aware of yet). NEVER skip challenge on a tank
Never found sub-zero cellblock that useful personally. Only endgame benefit I see to that is interrupting Kiga dogs.
Hope that helps!
I tested some things out in the powerhouse, and I believe I have a workable (if temporary) build; I have 4 advantage points left over for Challenge once I get some better gear. I'm going to stand to the side at Kiga for the time being, and use the interrupt on the dogs if needed; hopefully it won't take long to get my timing down. Alternatively, I can put Challenge on one of my AoE's and then not use that specific power at cosmics yet.
And I agree that it could be designed better. Icy Embrace scales off Endurance and Recovery, one of which you don't even have, and the other has to be ignored for more important things. Concentration scales off Ego, but you need Constitution for survivability. Survivability scales off Constitution, but you need Ego for damage, threat management, and form scaling. It's quite a mix.
Using some Heroic gear I got a while ago, I now have a little over 12k HP. That should do me until I get some higher-end gear. I'll be ignoring threat until I'm better able to handle that part. And, yeah, I'm probably still going to die a lot. Par for the course, I guess.
Interestingly, I did an Onslaught Villain run last night and got the perk for my 50th defeat. I could have sworn I'd passed that a long time ago. Doing cosmics, I'll likely reach 100 defeats much faster. Oh well.
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I tested in the Powerhouse in MC against team size 5 as well as against Mindslayer, and I didn't die. Also, I went to Monster Island and handled Chimera okay. (Legendaries, of course, are NOT cosmics.)
It lacks of self-heal so I would probably go with Defensive Expertise for a faster rotation between Unbreakable and Ice Barrier.
Exhausting Strikes adv is not that bad as it can apply a 10% damage debuff for 10sec.
As I see it, the issue with his SS is that he has Ego instead of Dex so very low crit chance.
Of course you may insert your 2 cents, I appreciate you taking the time!
This is my current (not final) build:
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=35&n=&d=93850O2GILK90100705000510555049A035305A800560159035A009K055D035F05000000000Zx73BIR2skB30000000000&e=MzI5IGNvbiwgMTYyIGVnbywgMTA3IGVuZCwgOTkgcmVjLCA1MSBkZXhSZWdlbiBDb3JlIFY6IDEyNiBIUCBwZXIgM3NBZHJlbmFsaW5lIFJ1c2g6IDI2MiBIUCBwZXIgY3JpdA~~
My current HP is 13,092. Base crit chance is 27.3%.
EDIT: Whoops the notes didn't line up like I thought they would. For readability:
329 con, 162 ego, 107 end, 99 rec, 51 dex
126 HP every 3s from Regen Core V
262 HP from crits
Also, Ice Barrier R3 gives 75 HP per second for 30 seconds.
Tbh, I've never played the Glacier but hopefully this build is not too bad : Glacier Tank.
What's the difference?
You take less damages (Exhausting Strikes R2+ combo 2x challenges). You generate more threat and have stronger AD (both R3).
You also dont have a good source for secondary challenge (no PBAoE)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
After seeing only one build, declaring I have zero talent in anything is rather puzzling, especially since I outrightly stated the build wasn't final. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that might be stretching things. Also, I think I mentioned that I had 4 points left over for Challenge, but that I wasn't going to necessarily use them at this time--I wanted to wait until I was better at using the Glacier in end-game content.
Part of this may be because I commented about being one-shotted by Qwyjibo, but didn't elaborate on the circumstances. Let me assure you, I was NOT trying to tank. Something went wrong and the Main Tank died, and everyone scattered. I was to the side (in case the ape turned toward me during the fight), and didn't notice the tank had gone down at first, and I didn't scatter fast enough. Also, the ape's fireball ignored my rank 3 block and hit for 15,000+ damage; as stated, I have a little over 13,000 HP.
And on that exhausting strikes thing...I did the math, and assuming my calculation was done correctly, I would still have been hit for over 13,000 damage; even if I'd had a sliver of health left, the ape would have finished me off, or a burn effect would have. That spec skill may be better than I think it is, but I'm not really convinced that all the special effects from the spec trees are 100% effective on cosmics...would like to know that for sure.
I may try it anyway. With this AT, I've found myself using the energy builder more than with other AT's. Its energy management is...well, it could be better.
Not planning to take Shatter at this point, but I will take this into consideration. It would be nice if you could have different builds with different powers. (On AT's I mean.) It would be nice if I could use Icy Embrace for general content but have Shatter for cosmics if I chose to go that route.
I've thought about this, too, but if the cosmic doesn't look at me, it won't be an issue. Might try it anyway; as long as I can pass the score, I'll eventually get the champ recog I need.
Then it's probably me, not the AT. Hahahaha, never claimed to be good at this. But I'll keep trying.
I also suggest you look back on the build that @qawsada posted as he mentioned he successfully tanked cosmics with that.
Shatter is a cone pbAoE which allows to get the 2x challenge threats. That's why I'm suggesting it.
You know I actually forgot about build guides being on the forums? Dopey me. Thanks for reminding me about that.
Talents are the 6 stat picks plus Innate Talent. Not your talent in making a build.
Personally, I feel you can take or leave out the Con from talents. Talents are best to help shore up some slight problems, such as energy issues, usually.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Yes, I did actually figure that out. Oops--see my next post.
Three days. It took me THREE DAYS to figure out that you were talking about talent points. Oh. My. Goodness. NOT my brightest moment ever. In my defense, I'm having a bout of insomnia that began the night before (Friday), and I'm missing work today (Monday) because I'm still so out of it. Friday night--or Saturday morning, really--I was still awake past 3 AM. My mind folds like crumpled paper when I don't sleep. Still, that was one of most brain-dead moments of my life. Also, thanks to warcanch & flowcyto for bringing this to my attention, just in case I hadn't gotten it on my own.
Three days. Three flipping days. Wow.
I was going to send you a private apology, but I went kablooey in front of everyone, so I am now apologizing in front of everyone. I'm very sorry for the misinterpretation. Hopefully I'll think more (regardless of my sleep) before I make any more boneheaded replies like that. And, holloweaver, thanks for your advice, as well as everyone else who took the time. Don't think for a moment it isn't appreciated.
One note--in the current build, I'm depending on Adrenaline Rush to replace HP; it's the only really effective heal I have. That's the reason for the Dexterity points. That dex (as well as the rec I have) might have to go away when I get the build closer to being final...assuming I don't transfer the character to a FF slot, which may or may not change things completely. I'm really wanting Icicle Spear. If this char ends up as multi-purpose as I want it to, that means any cone attack will be iffy at Qwyjibo; sometimes the hearts pop up in very inconvenient places.
Yes, I agree that Adrenaline Rush provides some decent health back. I'm using it on my main tank. Just don't sacrifice your CON, you still need it to scale up Invulnerability.