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Is the Glacier Useful in Endgame?

Being a silver player, I have standard slots, most of which I have filled with AT's. Some of the AT's are meh, others are actually fun. I'm a bit undecided on the Glacier; I just got mine to 40. I'm wondering if it can be used as a tank for endgame; my instinct says "no" because of its vulnerability to knockback and seeming lack of survivability.

If I go "all in" with Constitution, the specialization tree yields some knock resist, but is that enough?

If I go "all in" with Ego, could I skip using Challenge and go for a bit more damage?

Is the entirety of the Glacier's end-game usefulness dependent on Ice Cage with Sub-Zero Cellblock? And possibly soaking at dino?

Comments

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,028 Arc User
    A Glacier would not be my first choice for end game tanking, but it's usable. It's probably best as a baby tank at Dino.
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 714 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    In my experience, knock resist tend to mean jack ****. That being said, The Glacier is usable in the end game setting.

    In terms of cosmic, if you're starting out, you probably need a sponge or a really good healer that can focus heal you if you could maintank a cosmic. Kiga is probably going to be the biggest threat because you cannot really sponge damage his main spammy attack. I went in stacking with nothing but Con and got ~17k Hp, but lacks in threats and damage. You can add in a confront mod and get a secondary offense gear that allows you to get more threat (either cosmic offense secondary + R5 Confront or OV Defender Glove), and you should be able to hold threat just about almost all DPS, except for the extremely high end DPS and tanks that normally want to steal your aggro. As mention before, its a great baby tank.

    Its very usable in TA as both main tank and offtank. You see, Invulnerability does an extremely good job in migrating all those tiny damage if you're going the OT route. For the offtank part, you would need to invest in Quick Healing Spec, Resolute Spec, and the Retribution Spec to passively heal yourself. On top of this, have a Rejuvenating Formula stack equipment at all times in your device slot. Regen Mod and Benign Symboite are nice to have if you can afford them if you want more stuff to help on your TA OT.

    Outside of these particular end game content, you shouldn't have a problem at all in tanking all those event and OM stuff. The Glacier is a really great soloing character on top of this.

    Here is a build I use to test and successfully tank the cosmics and TA.

    EDIT: I meant to put in points in Retribution in the build but it went to Ruthless for some reason.
    Post edited by qawsada on
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 815 Arc User
    And, in my opinion, don't spec or gear for Knock resistance. Cosmics aren't going to be knocking the tanks around unless you are in the tail area. Then, you're doing it wrong.

    As for other content, just blocking in time takes care of most knocking issues. And, even if it doesn't, you're still better off spending points for other things.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • panthrax77panthrax77 Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Unfortunately, the glacier is one of the worst designed ATs in the game, imo. One can only hope a dedicated ice rework can help it out.

    However, it can still be useful in endgame applications. Invulnerability makes you an effective offtank for things like TA and soaking cosmics. Just make sure your con is well stacked so you have around 15k HP.
    Generally as long as your hp is high enough, you can tank just fine.

    You're most useful in TA in tanking mobs, and that's where that knock resist spec is worth it.

    If you want to main tank cosmics, you need some really good gear. Focus on Con but try to keep around 200 or so ego so you have some damage. Confront mods are your friends (unless there's a special ice threat mod I'm not aware of yet). NEVER skip challenge on a tank :)

    Never found sub-zero cellblock that useful personally. Only endgame benefit I see to that is interrupting Kiga dogs.

    Hope that helps!
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Thank you all for your replies, I read them more than once!

    I tested some things out in the powerhouse, and I believe I have a workable (if temporary) build; I have 4 advantage points left over for Challenge once I get some better gear. I'm going to stand to the side at Kiga for the time being, and use the interrupt on the dogs if needed; hopefully it won't take long to get my timing down. Alternatively, I can put Challenge on one of my AoE's and then not use that specific power at cosmics yet.

    And I agree that it could be designed better. Icy Embrace scales off Endurance and Recovery, one of which you don't even have, and the other has to be ignored for more important things. Concentration scales off Ego, but you need Constitution for survivability. Survivability scales off Constitution, but you need Ego for damage, threat management, and form scaling. It's quite a mix.

    Using some Heroic gear I got a while ago, I now have a little over 12k HP. That should do me until I get some higher-end gear. I'll be ignoring threat until I'm better able to handle that part. And, yeah, I'm probably still going to die a lot. Par for the course, I guess.

    Interestingly, I did an Onslaught Villain run last night and got the perk for my 50th defeat. I could have sworn I'd passed that a long time ago. Doing cosmics, I'll likely reach 100 defeats much faster. Oh well. :pensive:

    ----

    I tested in the Powerhouse in MC against team size 5 as well as against Mindslayer, and I didn't die. Also, I went to Monster Island and handled Chimera okay. (Legendaries, of course, are NOT cosmics.)
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    If I may insert my 2cents, the Glacier has a lot of tankiness with his spes (Con/Armored, Guardian/Fortified Gear, Protector/Fortified Gear) which you can turn into 100% offense (Guardian/The Best Defense).

    It lacks of self-heal so I would probably go with Defensive Expertise for a faster rotation between Unbreakable and Ice Barrier.

    Exhausting Strikes adv is not that bad as it can apply a 10% damage debuff for 10sec.

    As I see it, the issue with his SS is that he has Ego instead of Dex so very low crit chance.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    If I may insert my 2cents, the Glacier has a lot of tankiness with his spes (Con/Armored, Guardian/Fortified Gear, Protector/Fortified Gear) which you can turn into 100% offense (Guardian/The Best Defense).

    It lacks of self-heal so I would probably go with Defensive Expertise for a faster rotation between Unbreakable and Ice Barrier.

    Exhausting Strikes adv is not that bad as it can apply a 10% damage debuff for 10sec.

    As I see it, the issue with his SS is that he has Ego instead of Dex so very low crit chance.

    Of course you may insert your 2 cents, I appreciate you taking the time!

    This is my current (not final) build:
    https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=35&n=&d=93850O2GILK90100705000510555049A035305A800560159035A009K055D035F05000000000Zx73BIR2skB30000000000&e=MzI5IGNvbiwgMTYyIGVnbywgMTA3IGVuZCwgOTkgcmVjLCA1MSBkZXhSZWdlbiBDb3JlIFY6IDEyNiBIUCBwZXIgM3NBZHJlbmFsaW5lIFJ1c2g6IDI2MiBIUCBwZXIgY3JpdA~~

    My current HP is 13,092. Base crit chance is 27.3%.

    EDIT: Whoops the notes didn't line up like I thought they would. For readability:

    329 con, 162 ego, 107 end, 99 rec, 51 dex
    126 HP every 3s from Regen Core V
    262 HP from crits

    Also, Ice Barrier R3 gives 75 HP per second for 30 seconds.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    Well, if there was any doubt about the build still needing work (though let's face it, there wasn't), that doubt was erased when Qwyjibo one-shotted me. :open_mouth:
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    Looking at your build, you've absolutely 0 talent with CON.
    Tbh, I've never played the Glacier but hopefully this build is not too bad : Glacier Tank.

    What's the difference?
    You take less damages (Exhausting Strikes R2+ combo 2x challenges). You generate more threat and have stronger AD (both R3).
  • redcastle56redcastle56 Posts: 97 Arc User
    Shatter is also your friend for tanking with glacier. While blocking with ice shield, the target is going to get chilled so you get the damage boost from shatter. its a click damage with ok output and challenge. Of course the problem is you give up your energy unlock to get it, so outside of cosmics you will have energy issues.
    You also dont have a good source for secondary challenge (no PBAoE)
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 714 Arc User
    Well, if there was any doubt about the build still needing work (though let's face it, there wasn't), that doubt was erased when Qwyjibo one-shotted me. :open_mouth:
    You could stack your gear with nothing but Con. When you get GCR gears that could compensate your defense, you can migrate a bit towards more EGO for more threat or just stick with stacking with Con.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,908 Arc User
    I've seen someone who used to MT on a Glacier... then retconned to FF. So it does work.
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  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    Looking at your build, you've absolutely 0 talent with CON.
    Tbh, I've never played the Glacier but hopefully this build is not too bad : Glacier Tank.

    What's the difference?
    You take less damages (Exhausting Strikes R2+ combo 2x challenges). You generate more threat and have stronger AD (both R3).

    After seeing only one build, declaring I have zero talent in anything is rather puzzling, especially since I outrightly stated the build wasn't final. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that might be stretching things. Also, I think I mentioned that I had 4 points left over for Challenge, but that I wasn't going to necessarily use them at this time--I wanted to wait until I was better at using the Glacier in end-game content.

    Part of this may be because I commented about being one-shotted by Qwyjibo, but didn't elaborate on the circumstances. Let me assure you, I was NOT trying to tank. Something went wrong and the Main Tank died, and everyone scattered. I was to the side (in case the ape turned toward me during the fight), and didn't notice the tank had gone down at first, and I didn't scatter fast enough. Also, the ape's fireball ignored my rank 3 block and hit for 15,000+ damage; as stated, I have a little over 13,000 HP.

    And on that exhausting strikes thing...I did the math, and assuming my calculation was done correctly, I would still have been hit for over 13,000 damage; even if I'd had a sliver of health left, the ape would have finished me off, or a burn effect would have. That spec skill may be better than I think it is, but I'm not really convinced that all the special effects from the spec trees are 100% effective on cosmics...would like to know that for sure.

    I may try it anyway. With this AT, I've found myself using the energy builder more than with other AT's. Its energy management is...well, it could be better.
    Shatter is also your friend for tanking with glacier. While blocking with ice shield, the target is going to get chilled so you get the damage boost from shatter. its a click damage with ok output and challenge. Of course the problem is you give up your energy unlock to get it, so outside of cosmics you will have energy issues.
    You also dont have a good source for secondary challenge (no PBAoE)

    Not planning to take Shatter at this point, but I will take this into consideration. It would be nice if you could have different builds with different powers. (On AT's I mean.) It would be nice if I could use Icy Embrace for general content but have Shatter for cosmics if I chose to go that route.
    qawsada wrote: »
    You could stack your gear with nothing but Con. When you get GCR gears that could compensate your defense, you can migrate a bit towards more EGO for more threat or just stick with stacking with Con.

    I've thought about this, too, but if the cosmic doesn't look at me, it won't be an issue. Might try it anyway; as long as I can pass the score, I'll eventually get the champ recog I need.
    I've seen someone who used to MT on a Glacier... then retconned to FF. So it does work.

    Then it's probably me, not the AT. Hahahaha, never claimed to be good at this. But I'll keep trying.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    (...)
    After seeing only one build, declaring I have zero talent in anything is rather puzzling, especially since I outrightly stated the build wasn't final. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that might be stretching things. Also, I think I mentioned that I had 4 points left over for Challenge, but that I wasn't going to necessarily use them at this time--I wanted to wait until I was better at using the Glacier in end-game content.
    Well, if you want to go this road, I recommend you check your definition of "to look at" nor did I said I was looking at your final build. However I do confirm that I see 0 talent with CON in the build you posted.

    I also suggest you look back on the build that @qawsada posted as he mentioned he successfully tanked cosmics with that.
    (...)
    Not planning to take Shatter at this point, but I will take this into consideration. (...)
    Shatter is a cone pbAoE which allows to get the 2x challenge threats. That's why I'm suggesting it.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    You know I actually forgot about build guides being on the forums? Dopey me. Thanks for reminding me about that.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    Np mate. I hope it'll help you.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 815 Arc User
    And I think you misinterpreted the "0 talent" statement.

    Talents are the 6 stat picks plus Innate Talent. Not your talent in making a build.

    Personally, I feel you can take or leave out the Con from talents. Talents are best to help shore up some slight problems, such as energy issues, usually.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    And I think you misinterpreted the "0 talent" statement.

    Talents are the 6 stat picks plus Innate Talent. Not your talent in making a build.

    Personally, I feel you can take or leave out the Con from talents. Talents are best to help shore up some slight problems, such as energy issues, usually.​​

    Yes, I did actually figure that out. Oops--see my next post.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    Three days. It took me THREE DAYS to figure out that you were talking about talent points. Oh. My. Goodness. NOT my brightest moment ever. In my defense, I'm having a bout of insomnia that began the night before (Friday), and I'm missing work today (Monday) because I'm still so out of it. Friday night--or Saturday morning, really--I was still awake past 3 AM. My mind folds like crumpled paper when I don't sleep. Still, that was one of most brain-dead moments of my life. Also, thanks to warcanch & flowcyto for bringing this to my attention, just in case I hadn't gotten it on my own.

    Three days. Three flipping days. Wow.

    I was going to send you a private apology, but I went kablooey in front of everyone, so I am now apologizing in front of everyone. I'm very sorry for the misinterpretation. Hopefully I'll think more (regardless of my sleep) before I make any more boneheaded replies like that. And, holloweaver, thanks for your advice, as well as everyone else who took the time. Don't think for a moment it isn't appreciated.

    One note--in the current build, I'm depending on Adrenaline Rush to replace HP; it's the only really effective heal I have. That's the reason for the Dexterity points. That dex (as well as the rec I have) might have to go away when I get the build closer to being final...assuming I don't transfer the character to a FF slot, which may or may not change things completely. I'm really wanting Icicle Spear. If this char ends up as multi-purpose as I want it to, that means any cone attack will be iffy at Qwyjibo; sometimes the hearts pop up in very inconvenient places.
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    Sorry then that my answer was so personal, I had no idea you misread talent points as a CO thing for talent as the real thing.

    Yes, I agree that Adrenaline Rush provides some decent health back. I'm using it on my main tank. Just don't sacrifice your CON, you still need it to scale up Invulnerability.
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