Pets are a staple of RPGs. I'd rather see them fixed than made irrelevant. Make controlling them easier, and give them block... Either sharing the master's block or having thier own that a master can activate by command.
But how common are they in comic books? How many heroes have a horde of creatures around them? Powers should fit the specific genre.
Summons probably not so much, goon squads? A lot more common. Then again there is Squirrel Girl...
Pets are a staple of RPGs. I'd rather see them fixed than made irrelevant. Make controlling them easier, and give them block... Either sharing the master's block or having thier own that a master can activate by command.
But how common are they in comic books? How many heroes have a horde of creatures around them? Powers should fit the specific genre.
Even if they are not common, they still fit the theme as there are heroes and villains that do have this type of stuff. For example, Dr. Doom, has a legion of robots. Antman, can command Ants, Aquaman, Squirelgirl...just to name a few of the more noticeable ones.
That's why most events have (or should have) a place to use you pets rather than fighting the boss. All they need is a little more health points to balance out the squish. Allowing pets to block would be cool but not without severe unbalancing on certain builds.
Yes because controllables are oddly enough less controllable than temporary pets. Also they're just generally not as strong.
Pretty sure the OP was complaining about controllables. A temporary pet with a lifespan of 20s being blown away by an aoe with a cooldown of 30s is no big deal.
Yes because controllables are oddly enough less controllable than temporary pets. Also they're just generally not as strong.
Pretty sure the OP was complaining about controllables. A temporary pet with a lifespan of 20s being blown away by an aoe with a cooldown of 30s is no big deal.
Considering how garbage controllables are, them getting blown away isn't a big deal either.
Yes because controllables are oddly enough less controllable than temporary pets. Also they're just generally not as strong.
Pretty sure the OP was complaining about controllables. A temporary pet with a lifespan of 20s being blown away by an aoe with a cooldown of 30s is no big deal.
Considering how garbage controllables are, them getting blown away isn't a big deal either.
And that's what I want fixed. I don't want garbage. I want, at the very least, decent.
So I was recently invited to participate in group QWZ content (open missions) with a hybrid healer/pet build (AoRP w/ Two controllable tech pets + a few heals - support role) (I suppose the ban has been lifted now?).
And it wasn't too bad. Naturally with pets being the way they are, it's pretty poor. But my performance was good enough to score well, yet south of the middle line in the scoreboard (which probably isn't saying much lol).
Although I don't like this, it cannot be denied as having a good amount of truth to it:
The main issue that forces controllable pets to be weak is their unlimited lifespan.
I think whilst controllable pets have the potential for that...the reality is that they really do get trashed pretty fast and don't usually add much to fights anyway, unless you put effort into supporting them, and even then, it's relatively questionable.
If pets were as powerful as sidekicks or close to...you could effectively have a DPS build and then add on two or three pets and be pumping out pretty strong combined damage.
I think the issue comes when you see how little damage pets do especially when they can be destroyed "so easily".
Maybe the solution is to have a hard limit on two pets powers per build and have them be more effective in the field. Ultimately, that's what people want, pets to be effective picks on builds right now, they can seem like questionable choices outside of maybe PvP or non-endgame style content.
Maybe the solution is to have a hard limit on two pets powers per build and have them be more effective in the field.
The problem is that I can add a pet to a non-pet build, and between the lost power pick and energy penalty, I might lose 100-200 dps. If a pet does more than that, and doesn't get blown up often enough to be a problem, every dps should take a pet -- which isn't desirable.
There are basically three ways to fix this: greatly increase the build cost of pets, greatly increase the penalties for pets, or add active pet boosting. For how each of these would work: Increased Build Cost
On a 6k dps build, I'm probably getting 1k dps from my passive and 2k from my form. A passive or form that boosts pet dps by a similar amount is net neutral. A passive has the benefit that it can also force specific roles.
Coding-wise, this requires implementing such a form or passive, and also requires a means of keeping your pets alive. Increased Pet Penalty
The current pet penalty is energy, which is quite minor unless you have a lot of pets. A much higher penalty to damage and healing would allow much stronger pets (by an amount comparable to what you'd lose).
Coding-wise, this is an update to the existing pet penalty, and also requires a means of keeping your pets alive and updates to pet damage and healing. Active Pet Boosting
This gets around the 'free damage' problem by making it not free; spending time and energy boosting your pets directly reduces your damage from other sources. Large on-summon bonuses accomplish this by making the way you boost pets be by resummoning them.
Coding-wise, depends on implementation. The easiest active-boosting option is giving pets an on-summon bonus which drops to zero after a modest time, so you boost by resummoning.
Or you could simply remove the unlock "any non-energy building power from any other framework"
Then to get Muni bots you would require gadget unlocks, you couldn't get them without enough choices in their framework. Boost the base stats of the permanent pets and limit how many one can get.
I'd have to say bye-bye to my army of 12, but having a few strong pets would be nice.
Or you could simply remove the unlock "any non-energy building power from any other framework"
So I build a PBR dps. In any case, that's a subset of 'increased build cost' and has no realistic chance of happening, they aren't going to change how power tiers work to deal with the relatively minor issue of pets.
And that's what I want fixed. I don't want garbage. I want, at the very least, decent.
Give all pets cooldowns, then there's an excuse to bump their efficacy. Done and done.
The main issue that forces controllable pets to be weak is their unlimited lifespan.
And my suggestion solves that by making their lifespan limited. Just turn all pets into cooldown pets. Or people can just accept that not all powers are equally good in all content and that constant pets have their strengths and weaknesses and leave them as is.
Or you could simply remove the unlock "any non-energy building power from any other framework"
So I build a PBR dps. In any case, that's a subset of 'increased build cost' and has no realistic chance of happening, they aren't going to change how power tiers work to deal with the relatively minor issue of pets.
The problem is not one thing, or even two things. It is multiple things.
1: Perma pets tend to be weak. This comes from the train of though that the longer a power/effect lasts, the weaker it should be.
2: Pets cannot take hits to well. They used to have an innate ability that reduced AOE damage by a significant amount, this was put in in the early years due to complaints about how easy it was, especially in pvp, to lost large numbers of pets to aoes. One time many years ago, I got challenged by someone that wanted to fight a pet master, I warned him he might be disappointed because my toon is/was not set up for pvp, and has poor gear. He did not mind, he wanted to know what fighting a MM (minion master) was like. So, I summoned my pets, and we went to duel. Even though he was someone that pvp'd and even had a pvp build, my pets were actually out doing his self healing, so, in a last ditch effort, he attacked me directly and won, even though he ended with only 10% of his health left. This was before the spec trees existed mind you. And he even admitted that he was surprised at the how strong pets were en-mass like that. I'm sure, that it is still possible to do well, but, I'm not sure how easy it would be to pull off a pvp build built around pets.
3: AI sucks. Other than a deep dive by the devs into AI scripting...nothing can really be done about this.\
4: Temp pets are stronger. For a reason. They are temporary, thus, they need to be strong enough to be worthy of taking.
Those are just four of the biggest problems.
Any fix that is to be done, has to focus on all four problems. Just tampering with one will not fully solve the issue.
#4 isn't really a problem, it's just a statement of fact.
One could really question if there really is an issue here at all. Permanent pets have a pretty solid function in the game, they make soloing really easy, and they can make a lot of group content pretty easy as well. Having a swarm of things keeps attention off of you and deals damage automatically, it's a great thing to have. Given the fact that these powers already have a solid role in the game, why do they need to be changed to work better in the "slap at a big bag of hit points" too?
Fact is any pet build can just have an attack to use in situations where their pets aren't going to be much use and just function as a plain jane dps. Not everything has to be useful at cosmics. Maybe just shoot your laser or throw your boomerangs at dino, and don't run up a massive bill getting your Attack Toys smashed repeatedly.
You could probably fix pet AI by making it stupider. As far as I know, the general way NPC AI works is that NPCs have a threat table, and attack whatever has the highest threat as long as the total is above some minimum. Threat is generated by:
Doing damage to the critter.
Doing damage to another critter in the same group as the critter (threat chaining).
Using healing near the critter.
Being detectable near the critter.
Other effects that generate threat. I suspect attack commands generate threat, though they could be some other sort of AI override.
Most problems with pets attacking the wrong target come from (3) or (4), so delete them. This has the problem that pets typically won't attack at all, so add a new way for pets to get threat:
The owner's direct attacks generate threat on the attack's primary target (this can be done by assigning a buff to the owner's which triggers on attacking).
Wonder if they could make it so that when you click Attack in the pet UI it places a debuff on your current target that makes them generate tons of threat towards your pets.
Wonder if they could make it so that when you click Attack in the pet UI it places a debuff on your current target that makes them generate tons of threat towards your pets.
Probably? I guess that would be useful to pick up pets you summon after you click attack.
Wonder if they could make it so that when you click Attack in the pet UI it places a debuff on your current target that makes them generate tons of threat towards your pets.
That would be the easiest solution to problem number 3 (sucky AI).
Also, just because you think pets are fine, doesn't actually mean they are in a good place. They are in an awkward place were they are both good and yet, not good. And that statement about not everything needing to be useful at cosmics, is just your opinion, that is just backwards as can be in a superhero game, especially one that is an MMO. MMOs need BALANCE. And balance basically says that everything needs to be useful in all content. If you disagree, well, that is only your opinion and in reality, MMOs are almost always trying to keep things balanced...as long as they have the man power.
If something is not useful in certain game content, that makes players that play with that something feel alienated.
MMOs need BALANCE. And balance basically says that everything needs to be useful in all content.
That's not actually what balance means. Balance means that it's neither universally better nor universally worse than other options, though it can still be situationally better or worse. Beyond that, it's important to remember that CO is not class-based. That means balance is per power, not per character type; there is no requirement for an arbitrary combination of powers to be good, though there is a requirement that there isn't a single best build.
And that statement about not everything needing to be useful at cosmics, is just your opinion, that is just backwards as can be in a superhero game, especially one that is an MMO.
It is, however, an opinion that the devs have themselves expressed before.
Course they could just mirror a players stats onto the pets. The Str, Dex, Con, Int, Ego, Pres, and End. Instead of what is probably a straight down row of 5's
Comments
Summons probably not so much, goon squads? A lot more common. Then again there is Squirrel Girl...
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Even if they are not common, they still fit the theme as there are heroes and villains that do have this type of stuff. For example, Dr. Doom, has a legion of robots. Antman, can command Ants, Aquaman, Squirelgirl...just to name a few of the more noticeable ones.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
They don't. 2 years ago they made it so pets don't take aura slots... or did they change it back?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
****!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You do not use any controllables in that video...
Yes because controllables are oddly enough less controllable than temporary pets. Also they're just generally not as strong.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Considering how garbage controllables are, them getting blown away isn't a big deal either.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And that's what I want fixed. I don't want garbage. I want, at the very least, decent.
Give all pets cooldowns, then there's an excuse to bump their efficacy. Done and done.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
And it wasn't too bad. Naturally with pets being the way they are, it's pretty poor. But my performance was good enough to score well, yet south of the middle line in the scoreboard (which probably isn't saying much lol).
Although I don't like this, it cannot be denied as having a good amount of truth to it:
I think whilst controllable pets have the potential for that...the reality is that they really do get trashed pretty fast and don't usually add much to fights anyway, unless you put effort into supporting them, and even then, it's relatively questionable.
If pets were as powerful as sidekicks or close to...you could effectively have a DPS build and then add on two or three pets and be pumping out pretty strong combined damage.
I think the issue comes when you see how little damage pets do especially when they can be destroyed "so easily".
Maybe the solution is to have a hard limit on two pets powers per build and have them be more effective in the field. Ultimately, that's what people want, pets to be effective picks on builds right now, they can seem like questionable choices outside of maybe PvP or non-endgame style content.
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There are basically three ways to fix this: greatly increase the build cost of pets, greatly increase the penalties for pets, or add active pet boosting. For how each of these would work:
Increased Build Cost
On a 6k dps build, I'm probably getting 1k dps from my passive and 2k from my form. A passive or form that boosts pet dps by a similar amount is net neutral. A passive has the benefit that it can also force specific roles.
Coding-wise, this requires implementing such a form or passive, and also requires a means of keeping your pets alive.
Increased Pet Penalty
The current pet penalty is energy, which is quite minor unless you have a lot of pets. A much higher penalty to damage and healing would allow much stronger pets (by an amount comparable to what you'd lose).
Coding-wise, this is an update to the existing pet penalty, and also requires a means of keeping your pets alive and updates to pet damage and healing.
Active Pet Boosting
This gets around the 'free damage' problem by making it not free; spending time and energy boosting your pets directly reduces your damage from other sources. Large on-summon bonuses accomplish this by making the way you boost pets be by resummoning them.
Coding-wise, depends on implementation. The easiest active-boosting option is giving pets an on-summon bonus which drops to zero after a modest time, so you boost by resummoning.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Then to get Muni bots you would require gadget unlocks, you couldn't get them without enough choices in their framework. Boost the base stats of the permanent pets and limit how many one can get.
I'd have to say bye-bye to my army of 12, but having a few strong pets would be nice.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
And my suggestion solves that by making their lifespan limited. Just turn all pets into cooldown pets. Or people can just accept that not all powers are equally good in all content and that constant pets have their strengths and weaknesses and leave them as is.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Not power system entirely, just perm pets.
1: Perma pets tend to be weak. This comes from the train of though that the longer a power/effect lasts, the weaker it should be.
2: Pets cannot take hits to well. They used to have an innate ability that reduced AOE damage by a significant amount, this was put in in the early years due to complaints about how easy it was, especially in pvp, to lost large numbers of pets to aoes. One time many years ago, I got challenged by someone that wanted to fight a pet master, I warned him he might be disappointed because my toon is/was not set up for pvp, and has poor gear. He did not mind, he wanted to know what fighting a MM (minion master) was like. So, I summoned my pets, and we went to duel. Even though he was someone that pvp'd and even had a pvp build, my pets were actually out doing his self healing, so, in a last ditch effort, he attacked me directly and won, even though he ended with only 10% of his health left. This was before the spec trees existed mind you. And he even admitted that he was surprised at the how strong pets were en-mass like that. I'm sure, that it is still possible to do well, but, I'm not sure how easy it would be to pull off a pvp build built around pets.
3: AI sucks. Other than a deep dive by the devs into AI scripting...nothing can really be done about this.\
4: Temp pets are stronger. For a reason. They are temporary, thus, they need to be strong enough to be worthy of taking.
Those are just four of the biggest problems.
Any fix that is to be done, has to focus on all four problems. Just tampering with one will not fully solve the issue.
One could really question if there really is an issue here at all. Permanent pets have a pretty solid function in the game, they make soloing really easy, and they can make a lot of group content pretty easy as well. Having a swarm of things keeps attention off of you and deals damage automatically, it's a great thing to have. Given the fact that these powers already have a solid role in the game, why do they need to be changed to work better in the "slap at a big bag of hit points" too?
Fact is any pet build can just have an attack to use in situations where their pets aren't going to be much use and just function as a plain jane dps. Not everything has to be useful at cosmics. Maybe just shoot your laser or throw your boomerangs at dino, and don't run up a massive bill getting your Attack Toys smashed repeatedly.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- Doing damage to the critter.
- Doing damage to another critter in the same group as the critter (threat chaining).
- Using healing near the critter.
- Being detectable near the critter.
- Other effects that generate threat. I suspect attack commands generate threat, though they could be some other sort of AI override.
Most problems with pets attacking the wrong target come from (3) or (4), so delete them. This has the problem that pets typically won't attack at all, so add a new way for pets to get threat:Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
That would be the easiest solution to problem number 3 (sucky AI).
Also, just because you think pets are fine, doesn't actually mean they are in a good place. They are in an awkward place were they are both good and yet, not good. And that statement about not everything needing to be useful at cosmics, is just your opinion, that is just backwards as can be in a superhero game, especially one that is an MMO. MMOs need BALANCE. And balance basically says that everything needs to be useful in all content. If you disagree, well, that is only your opinion and in reality, MMOs are almost always trying to keep things balanced...as long as they have the man power.
If something is not useful in certain game content, that makes players that play with that something feel alienated.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
It is, however, an opinion that the devs have themselves expressed before.
No, get rid of dumb players that can't keep their pets from touching CC'd mobs u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Fair enough, that works too.