test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Lets discuss those caps on character slots and costume slots
soulforger
Posts: 1,649 Arc User
Supposidely, there were caps in place that certain mechanics bypassed. Those being character slots and costume slots. The character slot limit was supposed to be something like 59 or 60 (or something around there) and the costume slot limit was supposed to be 40. As we all know, there are people out there (I am one of them) that have way more than the supposed character slot limit (myself have something like 180+), and there are people out there that have more than the 40 costume slots (such as myself with something around 70).
In short, the 2 account wide costume slots bypassed the limit, as did the free character slots given by gold status. In short, ancient coding was badly done to enforce those limits. At the same time, I do not remember ever seeing ANYWHERE that stated these limits. I been around since the betas, and never saw one post by any devs back than about the limits. So, while what they are doing might seem like a cheap shot to our kidneys, we have to accept the fact they are there and are now going to be reinforced, for, in reality, the game had two serious bugs that allowed us to get more than the caps would normally allow. Which just had them around for so long, some people think they are actually features and not bugs.
So, I would like to ask Cryptic if it would be possible to comprimise. For, while I won't be missing getting new character slots, I will be missing getting more costume slots. So, for a simple comprimise, maybe up the caps on both character slots and costume to 100 slots each? I'd think that would be fair. What say everyone else?
(Please, keep it civil.)
In short, the 2 account wide costume slots bypassed the limit, as did the free character slots given by gold status. In short, ancient coding was badly done to enforce those limits. At the same time, I do not remember ever seeing ANYWHERE that stated these limits. I been around since the betas, and never saw one post by any devs back than about the limits. So, while what they are doing might seem like a cheap shot to our kidneys, we have to accept the fact they are there and are now going to be reinforced, for, in reality, the game had two serious bugs that allowed us to get more than the caps would normally allow. Which just had them around for so long, some people think they are actually features and not bugs.
So, I would like to ask Cryptic if it would be possible to comprimise. For, while I won't be missing getting new character slots, I will be missing getting more costume slots. So, for a simple comprimise, maybe up the caps on both character slots and costume to 100 slots each? I'd think that would be fair. What say everyone else?
(Please, keep it civil.)
0
Comments
They are still alienating those who have been the loyalist of consumers by saying...times up, no more for you.
But that line of “it was always meant to work this way and not that way” has been played a few times. I remember how they tried to take Firewing mask away from people after it being free for players for like 3 years...oh it was never meant to be in game.
They already have 100 characters and 100 costumes and acting like they're somehow being hurt by not getting more looks like a fat kid crying cause he ate the whole cake and there's no more cake to eat.
I get that for some people making new characters is the main thing they like about the game, and that in some cases they have an attachment to each character that means they just refuse to delete them and as a result the game holds nothing more for them ( it seems completely ridiculous to me, but I still get that these people exist ). But don't for one second act like you didn't make out like a bandit in this scenario.
Fat kid gets to eat the whole cake then says "You're alienating me by not baking me another cake!"
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
To your Point Foxi, I'm someone who's paid for three cakes, and only got some crumbs. My joy comes from the creation aspect, Like you said, creating a toon only coming up with 2-3 costume ideas and then kind of parking it for later because it holds more value to me than some ones and zeros. My more played toons have upwards of 30 costumes each, again far under the purposed maximum.
Something seems off to me about waiting for 10 years to fix a 'glitch' they have been well aware of and basically kept the game afloat all this time. It sounds more to me like a last ditch effort to try and turn a bigger profit out of it's most loyal customers rather than investing into the dev team and trying to get the game a player resurgence. the most recent tweak to costume slots is a sign of that. Yeah, I get that account wide costume unlocks where a poor business model on their part. but to me as a consumer it felt like i was being treated fairly for a change in regards to a cash shop.
All in all limiting both the character and costume amounts will be a deathblow to this game. Since creativity and freedom are Champs one redeeming quality. Let's face it, the combat system is clunky and out dated, the main quest lines are tedious and unfulfilling. The largest content update the game has seen where alerts, repetitive, buggy and in many ways game breaking. The last one that came out STW turned chat into a warzone for the better part of 2 weeks. What it does have the true charm to champs is do build the character that you dream up, to give them the powers you want, to make it look almost exactly the way you envisioned it. Why would they ever want to break that too?
100% wrong. You paid for 1 cake, and you got that cake, and you haven't even eaten all the slices, and you're already trying to complain that there isn't a second cake waiting.
In a game this generous where the hell are you getting "I only got some crumbs" from? Pure hyperbole on that one.
It shouldn't seem off to you at all. Bugs lingering for years isn't some rare thing here. Also, you have no information on the number of people that even have 60+ characters, so you can't say that that bug kept the game afloat.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I cannot speak for everyone, and I already made my own position clear on the character slot limit. For myself, I won't miss it due to having 180 or so character slots.
Yes, it does suck. But, at this point, there really isn't anything that we players can do other than ask for comprimises. A 100 limit is vastly better than a 60 limit (for character slots), and a 100 limit is vastly better than a 40 limit (for costumes). All in all, people like you would be the ones to benifit the most from this comprimise, while people like me would just have to pat our unrealistically fat stomaches that give us our own gravitational fields and be happy with the cake we ate. No game (MMOs that is) that I know of allows this many character slots for players. Even STO has a limit (I think it is the same as CO, maybe 50 character slots).
And while you might think these things were making bank for Cryptic...they weren't really (except maybe the 2 account costume slots). Most people got new character slots via being gold and hitting 40. And, case in point, I had been unable to purchase new normal character slots for years due to hitting that 59/60 cap on those many years ago, only new character slots I've managed to get have been from hitting 40 and the few free Free Form slots (yes, those also allowed me to go pass the limit).
All I am trying to do is meet with Cryptic half way on this issue. 100/100 is a good limit. The only people that would truly suffer, is people like me, those with more than 100 slots (either character or costume or both). You, on the other hand, would still be able to enjoy making new toons without having to delete old ones. So, this is a fairly fair request that isn't extreme.
It would also be better if they managed to re-enable people to get those free slots for hitting 40 up to the limit. But, I doubt that would happen, due to that actually not making them money. Us LTSers have made of like a bandit. Think of it this way, I started with 8 character slots when the game came out (if I remember right), I bought 59/60 character slots. That would give me 67/68 character slots out of the 180+ I have. Do you realize how much money Cryptic basically LOST due to all those free slots?
Just recounted my character slots, 182 in total. So, I got total of (minus the three free form slots, two of which were free), 112 (or 113). And, while I do not remember what the price was in the past, I'm going with the 1400 zen price tag for two, so, basically that would be 56 purchases I got for free. And when you add the total of 56 purchases with the 1400 price tag, you get, 78400. In short, $784 dollars lost to just the free characters I got. That is more than twice what I payed for LTS.
There is no way that anyone could convince me I am getting the short end of the stick with the limit and loss of free character slots. And yet, I am still trying to help those that are not in my position with trying to convince Cryptic to come to a comprimise. And 100/100 is an excellent comprimise.
Also, just counted my costume slots, 117 in total (Due to purchases, do nto remember getting any for free, beyond SG costume that is). So, even there, I couldn't be convinced I'm getting the short end of the stick due to a costume limit.
I totally understand (and agree with) capping the number of free character slots a LTS account can spew out, but the total cap really should be reevaluated if people are willing to pay for them. Same with costume slots.
Here's an idea if that is the case. Sell an option to create a linked account with the same login information, shared banks and mirrored unlocks. That would eliminate any database size issues. I'd pay 5000 ZEN for that.
Add character bound devices, character bound vehicles and character bound gear to that mix too, as well as all of the character bound in-game currencies.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I don't agree with removing the free character slot. Getting that new character slot was my motivation for leveling each character to 40. WIthout it there is no motivation for me. The cosmic grind, imo, isn't sustainable.
What about the $50 FF slot? That bypasses this cap they're suddenly concerned with as well. (No I'm not going to spend $50 for a FF slot with all the inconveniences attached to it.) I doubt this has anything to do with databases or the cap.
They've been removing stuff from subscribers/lts members for a while now. Costume tokens were changed then they added tokens to lockboxes, they removed the permanent teleport to ren center device and triumphant recovery device from the level up boxes. Auras and most event rewards were turned into grindy character bound items. They've added even more clutter to lockboxes, while removing things that have actual value, like the legion boxes.
The costume slot and character slots being 'capped' smells more of a cash grab to me.
Sure, this could be the case, but we (the players) don't really know this. If it is true, it would be nice to hear it from the devs, along with at least something about how they value the loyal players who will never again get another character slot or costume slot. It would also be nice to know that CO deciding to forgo some income by not selling some players additional slots (which is happening), and some of those players abandoning the game, leads to the stronger financial viability for the game. Sure, as players we won't be provided details, but some openness would be helpful.
As it is, we're left to believe whatever we like, and I've certainly seen some wild conspiracy theories about it. Conspiracy theories that are corrosive to player morale and are not countered by any information from the devs.
I'm not very directly affected by these changes. I'm LTS, I'm not *too* near the character cap, and nowhere near the costume cap. Still, driving players away from the game, especially in an information vacuum, makes me wonder if it's worth staying around. Can this small game survive if it doesn't make its players feel valued or convince its best customers that the sacrifices will be worth it?
Companies do this all the time. Hell, there was a court case just in the news about a cake maker refusing to sell cakes to a homosexual couple because it was against the owner's religion. Bars do this if they think a customer is too intoxicated. And I can see a bakery refusing to serve to someone if they believe a customer's health is at risk from eating so much crap. Some businesses are run by people with morals and ethics. Hard to believe, I know.
Seems like the limits are already high. I just don't see the point in character hoarding. Are people really playing all those toons or are a chunk of them collecting dust?
On the other hand, Cryptic / PW has this obsession with character bound everything which makes re-rolling flushing money down the toilet. Getting gear can be a slog too, so that also makes re-rolling not appealing. This is why I dislike character bound thing in cash shops. I'm a person that does the re-roll thing a lot if I am not happy with a character's powers and run out of free respecs... It really just means I have FF slots that are "re-roll" slots that I will never get character bound stuff on unless it's free and zero effort. And that I gear them with whatever trash I find lying about or cheap stuff in the AH.
So, in my case it's not about the slot number restrictions but about everything being character bound. I re-rolled a character in Path of Exile last league, but I threw all of her gear into a stash tab to re-equip later or on another toon. So, I only lost the time it took to level her, not her gear or cosmetics.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Noooooot the best example, because that's outright Homophobia
Happy Pride Month everyone
Does it matter? For some of us, creating many characters is as important as being able to play freeform is for other people. Doesn't matter that it's not your thing, it just matters that it's someone's thing. Capping the character slots is the one thing this game's done in 8 years that's making me consider the end of me playing. I'm not complaining for no reason, I'm not being an alarmist, I'm simply letting the company know "This is what I like to do, and when this goes away, I probably will too."
So yeah, would be nice if people wouldn't try to diminish the importance of this "feature" for those of us who like it.
funny I was thinking of resubbing because I wanted to play my old gold characters, but now apparently they want to take that away as well. What's the point? I bought this game at full price on release day, paid for a sub for five, maybe six years, have dropped hundreds on the cash shop - I love this game - but I am not paying the outlandish price for freeform slots plus all the massively overpriced archetypes just to play the game the way its meant to be played.
The only thing stopping me from dropping money on the cash shop is that I don't feel like "wasting" money on silver characters locked into shitty and inefficient archetypes, especially while others will buy their way to the top. Now it looks like they were (and may still?) going to make it much worse.
42 40s, LTSer.
There is a difference between having a bunch of characters and hoarding all the things. We aren't talking about super stingy limits, we're talking about 60 characters and 40 costume slots. To me, players being upset about hoarding restrictions is potentially a mental health issue. Not that I believe Cryptic cares about player health. They seem to have some other reason that doesn't involve making money.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
People have their reasons for wanting to hold onto their characters. Personally, this game was the birthplace of many of the characters I write into my comics. It's fun to be able to play them at a whim or bring them out for screenshots or whatever. It's a form of collecting. If you're gonna say that's hoarding and a potential mental health issue, then I guess I'm done discussing this with you because you've already made up your mind on what makes someone want to have many characters.
Just going to pop in and request that you don't throw around the idea that someone has a mental health issue because they disagree with sudden restrictions brought into place and enforced by Cryptic.
As a mental health professional myself, I always cringe massively when I see that thrown into the mix. Sure video games can breed issues related to mental health...but a topic like this, at this point, has no room to bring player mental health into question.
So please, keep it out.
--
I think CO's problem where limitations come in, is that Champions Online allows for large amounts of variation and the potential for character building is pretty limitless (until now it seems).
It takes all sorts, so whilst I am very creative, I've focused my creative energy into the characters I have now...and I'm pretty okay with that, and trying to make them better mechanically.
Whereas others, will perhaps have a different threshold for satisfaction with a character and may be suddenly run over by an awesome idea for a new character and run to that...whilst still loving their other ideas. <-- That's where the issue lies. Players like this are going to feel hard done by.
I guess one possible solution is to have two neutral characters (one male, one female) who can host the past characters you've had via their costumes or something...? Doesn't help, but if you really loved the look of one character...I guess it could be nice?
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Fortunately, one of my characters already had built into her theme that she has adopted several crime-fighting personae, each wearing different costumes, etc. So, for costumes that would work for a basic hand-to-hand street level hero, I can keep putting those costumes on her. It's given me an outlet for a few ideas since they announced this. As you said, it's a compromise, but one way of squeezing some value out.
You're nuts.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I get that. It's fine. But we have to accept that the developers of the game say there's a need for a hard limit on character slots per account, and I trust their judgment on that. The only sensible course of action would be to start another account and buy a Gold subscription for that one while you still can. It's still pretty decent value, as game costs go....
That's extremely unrealistic and not sensible at all. It's not simply the amount of character slots I get. I'd have to start a new account, unlock all the same costumes by buying them, spend hundreds of hours unlocking others... no thanks. If that's sensible for you, more power to ya, but personally that's not going to fly for me.
Anyway I'm not saying that the developers are wrong and that its my right to have unlimited characters (although it would have been nice to have been informed at the time of purchase that there was a limit to the amount of characters, not something you tell me eight years later). I'm not making any demands or stating that I'm entitled to anything. All I'm saying is that it's something I enjoyed, it's the reason I've played for so long, and when that well dries up, I'll be moving on.
So yeah, I've accepted it, but it's fully within my right to disagree with it.
I'm glad people are discussing the issue in a fair and rational way and not giving in to hyperbole or crazy theories o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm out of options, Biff. Are you honestly telling me you can't start another subscription, re-reroll some player type characters and free up some space in your main account for the decorative/themed ones?
I think it's important for the developers/people who are working on the game's future financial structure to know, btw. Because it looks as if a whole load of people are collectors in this game, and once they've gone, they won't come back.
COMING UP NEXT: ALTitis. Creative Expression of Imagination or Mental disorder?
For some people, starting a second sub is asinine and counter-productive, I can understand not wanting to(I never will). I get trying to give people options, but you're really not. You're trying to tell someone how to play, when it's(and no offense meant here) none of your business. Your account is yours and you should ONLY care for your account
42 40s, LTSer.
What is a "player type character"? o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Do you know how much time and money it takes to re-acquire everything I have in my account on a separate account?
And even then, say I do something silly like buy another lifetime subscription. That's 16 more characters and that's it, because we get no more free characters when reaching max level. Add on top of that all the costume pieces I'm used to having. "Hey, here's an idea for a character! Oh, I thought I had that piece on this account. Oh, that one too. Oh, huh, I also don't have that vehicle. Hey look all those things that made making new characters fun is stuck behind a paywall and a timewall." That can't seriously sound like any fun to you.
Anyway it's not your job to find ways to get me to stay, or to convince me to stay. It just is what it is. When it stops being fun, you stop doing it.
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do anything, just suggesting ways in which people who like making characters for theme or because they like the act of creation could cope with the upcoming hard cap on character slots. It is Ok for Biff, or anyone else to say no, and I won't take offence. That said, If you find the act of even making polite suggestions to be offensive, then be warned that we are going to fall out very badly indeed.
What is a "player type character"? o3o
One that you play because of the powers or the role. Because you think "sometimes I need to bring a DPS, or a tank, or a Healer", and you didn't work out a backstory or work hard on the costume, you just have it because that particular combination is fun to play or what's needed.
Many of us only do themed characters where we have a backstory and have put a lot of effort into the costumes. None of my characters are your definition of "player type characters".... but can all be played and have different roles.
The two types are not incompatible.
I'm in the same boat as Biff. No way am I going to pay for a new account and try to get all that stuff that I already put a lot of effort into getting.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I spent the first like year of my time in this game at lvl 35 and just tailoring.
Now I only lvl to create a new toon. I did a mad rush to unlock slots so I had options. But when those options are gone...and the people who inspire are gone...then what is left?
I saw no one state they have 400+ toons, at least not in this thread.
As for buying a new account, forget it. I've spent way to much on this account alone to make another.
As for mental issues...that might be the case for some, but no where near all of us. Also, I would like to add/point out, that I had asked for people to stay civil on this topic, and the person (who will not be named), went way out of line saying what they said linking wanting to have lots of toons with a mental illness, do not do it again please.
People need to understand, this will happen (the costume slot limit is already live). So, instead of complaining and saying you'll quit if things do not return to the way they were, try to get Cryptic to comprimise (seriously, they will most likely bend to a higher limit than not go through with the limit). And I say that as someone that loves making new toons and costumes. As I pointed out, even my own comprimise wouldn't benefit me.
And while we were never made aware of any limits in the past, no where did a single dev in the history of the game ever say you would be allowed to have infinite character slots and costume slots. Still not fair they would pull this now, but, still, it was never explictly stated you are allowed infinite.
As for 60 and 40 being high numbers. Not even close to true. I've seen games with a cap off up to 500, sure, those are far and few inbetween, but, they exist(ed, mught be gone by now, they were some old games). And true, some games do not even allow 10 characters. But, most games seem to allow around 50-60. So, asking the limit to be 100, is fair.
Would I benefit from a limit of 100? No, not even close. Of course, they could always put into the store something that increases your character/costume slot limits to...200, one time purchase though, and doesn't actually unlock any slots (or maybe a few slots to get you started). There is no need to outright go with either extremes (60/40 limits or no limits). There is always the middle ground.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/http://champions-online.com/f2p_matrix
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173
As for the 400 characters.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1211245/june-subscriber-reward-and-the-premium-pack
gillfignofigno states he has 400 characters.
The getting that free character slot is why I keep leveling in the game, that is why I've gone through each mission multiple times. With out that, there is no motivation to level. There is nothing remotely interesting about the cosmic gear grind. The event grinds are only partially interesting, but not enough to grind 600+ tokens on multiple characters.
I signed up and stayed signed up because when you hit level 40, you gain a new character slot, and I would have quit the game back in 2012 if the "limit" was real. I just don't find anything else about the game particularly fun other than designing new characters and leveling them up to 40 and starting over again, so that's all I do on it.
I'm also not "a crying fat kid" "complaining" that I will quit as some kind of threat, I barely ever post on here and just wanted to express to Cryptic/PW that if I cannot unlock any more character slots, they will lose me as a customer, as I still pay for the game monthly. I don't have a "mental disorder," and can't pull myself away or some other nonsense, as I'm prepared to walk away from the game and spend my time and money elsewhere.
If the goal is to get rid of people who have a lot of characters, so be it. Though, I don't really see how me not being an active player anymore will get all my characters and costumes off the server anyway, so it seems odd they would "host" all my files until the game shuts down, but not want any of the money I pay them every month.
Right. This is exactly why I consistently argue against this reasoning. It's very unlikely at the very least. And from what I've been reading (coupled with my own experiences) it almost seems like if this was somehow the issue, it would almost be more practical to free up memory (or whatever the situation is) away from other areas and devote them to this feature because it seems to be what most people are interested in. I could be wrong here, but that seems to be the consensus.
Get a bigger database.
Piece out, yo.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
It is kind of Suspicious isn't it?
Well, you likely have endgame gear on one of your toons Foxi. The devs release -BRAND NEW- end game content with -BRAND NEW- end game gear that makes your end game gear obsolete. BUT WAIT!! There's a limit on end game gear, you have a toon that has what qualifies as end game gear, so you're not allowed to get the brand new end game gear.
I'm typing this and realizing the metaphor's likely lost on you with your brain clogged with o3o and u3u and etc.
People are upset that they're suddenly beyond limits they didn't even know were supposed to be in place. Even if they weren't in place for 10 years, people would be less upset if these limits were common knowledge.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I have question for you really quick: Do you have more than one character? Figured I wouldn't have to do it like this but screw it, we're going simple here
42 40s, LTSer.
Compulsive hoarding is a disorder, yes. It's also known as hoarding disorder.
It also has f*ck all to do with the video game issue we are discussing. People suffering from hoarding disorder hold onto a large number of items that most people would consider useless or worthless and their home is cluttered to the point where many parts are inaccessible and can no longer be used for intended purposes.
Their clutter and mess interferes with their everyday living and causes significant distress and negatively affects the person's quality of life and their family's.
I agree with a lot of your points regarding the intended/proposed changes from Cryptic, but you're doing yourself a disservice by insisting on this particular point Sterga.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Yes, trying to use other people's potential grief as an "I told you so" moment ( and needing to really stretch facts to do so ). Classy as always blue.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hoarding is only a disorder if it leads to problems. Most of us with lots of toons do not have any problems with having lots of toons. So, again, I ask that you stop talking about mental illnesses, the next time I see you post this type of stuff, I will flag and request that your post be delt with. I have stated that I wanted people to be civil twice now, you and a few others have not been what would be considered civil. Please, respect my wishes as the thread starter to keep the discussion civil. And this also goes for the few people who's posts have been...less than civil and polite towards others (you know who you are).
I have not said that anyone is wrong on this issue, just that we have to ask for cryptic meet us in the middle ground. And since the character slot change was delayed along with that package, that means they have listened are are trying to find the middle ground. It is time to focus on that middle ground instead on what we used to have.
I am curious though, maybe concerned. I recently hit character number 14... am I a horder?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.