I think there was a bit of copy/paste that happened here with them not taking into account the specifics of CO's subscription model. It is generally an unusual one compared to even what you would see in other Cryptic games, much less the entirety of the industry.
*Snip due to lengthly paragraph that could have been cut into smaller ones.*
Well, you missed some of the points I made. I did in fact noted that the move was a bad one, and that the worse part was how it affected people that were not ltsers. So, most of your post was actually not even needed. Otherwise, thanks for staying civil.
As for the loss of the free character slots. Sorry, but as someone with 180 or so character slots...I do not need more, even free ones. In fact, I remember a long time ago (back when the game launched), that someone told me the game actually did have a character slot limit, and that was why I couldn't purchase anymore (I got this info from support). Yes, I puchased around 60 character slots. Yes, they are all full. I have around 180 character slots with around 176 toons...actually, I think I'm closer to 190 slots than I realize. In truth, there is, most likely, a bug that prevented the game from enforcing this cap, which is why people like me have so many freaking toons. In reality, we shouldn't have so many character slots, no matter how much fun we have making toons. So, while sad to see the free character slots go, I am not sad to see the cap being enforced, if that was enforced from the beginning, this would not even really be much of a discussion point.
I wonder, when you purchased your LTS was it specified in the terms of use that they could change the associated benefits of your LTS at their leisure? Because it looks a lot like a breach of contract.
I payed enough attention back than that I did indeed see something along that line.
As for restrictions on LTS...well, the only thing I noticed being chaged was the free character slot with hitting level 40.
That screams out to me that this decision had no basis in this game's finances, population, purchase patterns, or existing policies. Otherwise, the need for those conversion tokens would have been recognized, and they'd be in place for the changeover. This was unilaterally imposed by management because the numbers work for STO, and we're already seeing signs that the numbers absolutely do not work for CO. This is a massive mistake, and it's likely to be a fatal one.
Agreed, this sounded more as a surprise to even the devs.
This doesn't change my argument that the change is creating a paywall in front of content that was available prior to the update. I don't care more about them enforcing the cap than making changes that require more payments to be made for all non-cap players. And why would I or anyone else who has not reached that point feel any different? The fact that it can and has been abused by players for years is directly related to the lack of quality control of Cryptic. I understand enough about how coding works to know that creating a cap on unlocks cannot be an impossible fix. There is just no way that it is impossible. Why it hasn't been done is beyond me, but I am sure it more or less relates to the aforementioned issue of negligence or a complete lack of care on the part of the devs. It is far more likely that they have not cared about it enough to fix the problem like every other flipping bug/glitch in this game. I have PLENTY of examples to justify that assumption; as would anyone who has played this game for more than 10 hours.
(New Paragraph)
As someone who does not have 180 toons, 100 toons, or even 40 toons, I am not looking forward to the prospect of dumping another $300 or so on top of my LTS just to meet the cap which is apparently woefully under veterans just because they can't fix what should be a simple problem. And regardless, there has been no communication on this issue up until now as far as I can tell. And had i known I would have to invest that extra $300 in character slots alone just to meet the cap then I would NEVER have purchased the LTS (not to even mention that subscriptions would be ending). One of the biggest reasons I even made the decision to make the purchase initially was due to my realization that we unlocked characters through leveling. It offered enough value to me knowing that I could xp-grind my way to additional toons as opposed to needing to keep paying to unlock extras. Now to just merely get the same exact experience I would have had prior to this update I would have to invest hundreds more. That will never be a change/solution that I will accept as practical or fair.
(New Paragraph)
That all being said, I am not going to base my overall opinion of these changes on my own personal vendetta of wasted cash as I do genuinely accept the risk/loss associated with my purchase. 'Them's the breaks' when it comes to any game purchases at this stage. If it isn't early access, it's some wallet-gouging MMO on it's last leg. I've almost become numb to it at this point. But unfortunately, this change has a far larger impact on my friends running gold who have without a doubt wasted their time and money after recently joining me in this game due to my suggestion. None of them jumped in for more than $15 a month, and were already questioning that price tag to begin with for what little the game offered in terms of development. This now took that price and catapulted it up into the triple digits just for them to continue on with the same content they had prior to this update WITHOUT the prospect of unlocking new toons. And lets face it, keeping your monthly subscription going is hardly even a practical option because you will still likely to eventually be locked out at some stage and be forced to make a large purchase either by way of purchasing the now worthless LTS or hundreds of dollars worth of freeform tokens (thousands if you are at cap... think about that; LTS is really the only feasible option).
I think there was a bit of copy/paste that happened here with them not taking into account the specifics of CO's subscription model. It is generally an unusual one compared to even what you would see in other Cryptic games, much less the entirety of the industry.
10 to 1 the decision came down from PWE to drop subscriptions and it was up to Cryptic to decide how to do it. That's why it's happening exactly the same way as it did before PWE took over in the first place and screwing over players. It's Cryptic's MO.
I wonder, when you purchased your LTS was it specified in the terms of use that they could change the associated benefits of your LTS at their leisure? Because it looks a lot like a breach of contract.
That screams out to me that this decision had no basis in this game's finances, population, purchase patterns, or existing policies. Otherwise, the need for those conversion tokens would have been recognized, and they'd be in place for the changeover. This was unilaterally imposed by management because the numbers work for STO, and we're already seeing signs that the numbers absolutely do not work for CO. This is a massive mistake, and it's likely to be a fatal one.
*Snip due to lengthly paragraph that could have been cut into smaller ones.*
Well, you missed some of the points I made. I did in fact noted that the move was a bad one, and that the worse part was how it affected people that were not ltsers. So, most of your post was actually not even needed. Otherwise, thanks for staying civil.
As for the loss of the free character slots. Sorry, but as someone with 180 or so character slots...I do not need more, even free ones. In fact, I remember a long time ago (back when the game launched), that someone told me the game actually did have a character slot limit, and that was why I couldn't purchase anymore (I got this info from support). Yes, I puchased around 60 character slots. Yes, they are all full. I have around 180 character slots with around 176 toons...actually, I think I'm closer to 190 slots than I realize. In truth, there is, most likely, a bug that prevented the game from enforcing this cap, which is why people like me have so many freaking toons. In reality, we shouldn't have so many character slots, no matter how much fun we have making toons. So, while sad to see the free character slots go, I am not sad to see the cap being enforced, if that was enforced from the beginning, this would not even really be much of a discussion point.
I wonder, when you purchased your LTS was it specified in the terms of use that they could change the associated benefits of your LTS at their leisure? Because it looks a lot like a breach of contract.
I payed enough attention back than that I did indeed see something along that line.
As for restrictions on LTS...well, the only thing I noticed being chaged was the free character slot with hitting level 40.
That screams out to me that this decision had no basis in this game's finances, population, purchase patterns, or existing policies. Otherwise, the need for those conversion tokens would have been recognized, and they'd be in place for the changeover. This was unilaterally imposed by management because the numbers work for STO, and we're already seeing signs that the numbers absolutely do not work for CO. This is a massive mistake, and it's likely to be a fatal one.
Agreed, this sounded more as a surprise to even the devs.
This doesn't change my argument that the change is creating a paywall in front of content that was available prior to the update. I don't care more about them enforcing the cap than making changes that require more payments to be made for all non-cap players. And why would I or anyone else who has not reached that point feel any different? The fact that it can and has been abused by players for years is directly related to the lack of quality control of Cryptic. I understand enough about how coding works to know that creating a cap on unlocks cannot be an impossible fix. There is just no way that it is impossible. Why it hasn't been done is beyond me, but I am sure it more or less relates to the aforementioned issue of negligence or a complete lack of care on the part of the devs. It is far more likely that they have not cared about it enough to fix the problem like every other flipping bug/glitch in this game. I have PLENTY of examples to justify that assumption; as would anyone who has played this game for more than 10 hours.
(New Paragraph)
As someone who does not have 180 toons, 100 toons, or even 40 toons, I am not looking forward to the prospect of dumping another $300 or so on top of my LTS just to meet the cap which is apparently woefully under veterans just because they can't fix what should be a simple problem. And regardless, there has been no communication on this issue up until now as far as I can tell. And had i known I would have to invest that extra $300 in character slots alone just to meet the cap then I would NEVER have purchased the LTS (not to even mention that subscriptions would be ending). One of the biggest reasons I even made the decision to make the purchase initially was due to my realization that we unlocked characters through leveling. It offered enough value to me knowing that I could xp-grind my way to additional toons as opposed to needing to keep paying to unlock extras. Now to just merely get the same exact experience I would have had prior to this update I would have to invest hundreds more. That will never be a change/solution that I will accept as practical or fair.
(New Paragraph)
That all being said, I am not going to base my overall opinion of these changes on my own personal vendetta of wasted cash as I do genuinely accept the risk/loss associated with my purchase. 'Them's the breaks' when it comes to any game purchases at this stage. If it isn't early access, it's some wallet-gouging MMO on it's last leg. I've almost become numb to it at this point. But unfortunately, this change has a far larger impact on my friends running gold who have without a doubt wasted their time and money after recently joining me in this game due to my suggestion. None of them jumped in for more than $15 a month, and were already questioning that price tag to begin with for what little the game offered in terms of development. This now took that price and catapulted it up into the triple digits just for them to continue on with the same content they had prior to this update WITHOUT the prospect of unlocking new toons. And lets face it, keeping your monthly subscription going is hardly even a practical option because you will still likely to eventually be locked out at some stage and be forced to make a large purchase either by way of purchasing the now worthless LTS or hundreds of dollars worth of freeform tokens (thousands if you are at cap... think about that; LTS is really the only feasible option).
I wasn't arguing that it doesn't create a paywall, I recognize that fact...that is all I really need to say here.
10 to 1 the decision came down from PWE to drop subscriptions and it was up to Cryptic to decide how to do it. That's why it's happening exactly the same way as it did before PWE took over in the first place and screwing over players. It's Cryptic's MO.
Everyone is well aware by this point that you're very salty towards Cryptic and you really really hope everyone will join you in your little hate crusade.
10 to 1 the decision came down from PWE to drop subscriptions and it was up to Cryptic to decide how to do it. That's why it's happening exactly the same way as it did before PWE took over in the first place and screwing over players. It's Cryptic's MO.
Everyone is well aware by this point that you're very salty towards Cryptic and you really really hope everyone will join you in your little hate crusade.
I don't quite get your angle to be quite honest... I don't see how this person venting their frustration means that they are out on some "hate crusade". As far as I can tell, they have been affected by a very similar change many years prior, and history is effectively repeating itself. If you were around for both of these events, my question for you is why you wouldn't you also be outraged to some extent as well. Is it out of fear for the games health/longevity? Respect or friendship for/with the current dev team? Just curious.
10 to 1 the decision came down from PWE to drop subscriptions and it was up to Cryptic to decide how to do it. That's why it's happening exactly the same way as it did before PWE took over in the first place and screwing over players. It's Cryptic's MO.
Everyone is well aware by this point that you're very salty towards Cryptic and you really really hope everyone will join you in your little hate crusade.
Yeah, I am, and I'm hoping that people will actually fight this instead of letting it happen again. Holding Cryptic accountable is part of that. Getting people riled up about it is the only way anything has a *chance* of changing. Complacency did no one any favors last time.
When I heard the announcement I was excited. I thought I'd be able to actually play my old characters once again without being forced to keep my sub active and not play my silvers while it was. Then I read the full thing and was immensely disappointed and infuriated that Cryptic was pulling the same once-over they did back in the day. So yeah, I'm salty. I'm angry. You should be, too, because I'm sure I'm not the only player that would *love* to have my freeforms back, would *love* to come back to the game and would *love* to support the game in the future as I have in the past, but crap like this pushes me away.
This actively hurts the game's already struggling population and makes former players even more unlikely to return and new players even more unlikely to play or support the game at all. If Cryptic can't see it they're blind, but more likely they know exactly what they're doing and they're choosing the few that will spend out the **** over the majority that won't. They don't care about the playerbase, or how losing and turning away players would affect the game.
Or they could prove me wrong and change things. Only way that will happen is if they're convinced to, by the players.
I don't quite get your angle to be quite honest... I don't see how this person venting their frustration means that they are out on some "hate crusade".
It's the fact that they're doing it obsessively in every post, simply stating the same thing over and over hoping it will catch on. It hasn't, and likely won't, but they'll keep trying. They admitted as much in the post just before this one, so my "angle" should be pretty clear - I'm just pointing out the obvious.
Do the people at Cryptic / PW care so little about the long standing players, veterans of the community, people who go above and beyond to support the game that screwing them over is A-OK?
It saddens me that after all these years, this question can still be asked without having to invoke a certain level of hyperbole to make it work.
Yeah, I am, and I'm hoping that people will actually fight this instead of letting it happen again. Holding Cryptic accountable is part of that. Getting people riled up about it is the only way anything has a *chance* of changing. Complacency did no one any favors last time.
Not to be bitter, ok I am a little. The head honchos running this game don't give a flying fart if the players get riled up. Really, they don't. Just add up the facts and do the math. A similar change was put through on STO. Plus two of PWI's lower peformers are shutting down the same week this change goes live. We've also heard rumors this was planned out a year ago. This ship is not turning around. Once something hits the announcement stage around here, it's a done deal.
I'm not saying you can't rant, but the PWI doesn't care.
1. As a LTS holder this doesn't affect me directly.
2. These changes are fine except for the Free Form issue.
3. 50 dollars is the price of a full AAA game. FF slots are NOT and have never been worth 50 dollars.
4. The competition for our entertainment dollars is VERY stiff rite now. If you EVER subbed to CO then you deserve access to FF just for choosing CO over the mountains of other competent FTP games everywhere.
5. Gold members should retain access to all the FFs on their account.
6. All accounts should have the 1st FF slot for free.
7. FF slots should be no more than 10 dollars and the 50 dollar payment should unlock FF unlimited FF slots.
8. This small but dedicated community of players have made CO the longest standing superhero MMO and they deserve better.
9. If you ever spent 50 dollars on subs you deserve a FF slot after these changes at the very least.
10. If you aver spent 200 dollars on a sub you deserve full FF access.
11. I'm concerned that these changes could cause people to walk away, and I don't think that CO could sustain another Cryptic screw up.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I've been playing this game since release, a few months in, a few months off.
I go back to Champions Online everytime i quit another game and wait for new one.
Everytime this happens, i get a monthly subscription to get my freeform characters back.
Then i spend ages in the powerhouse to rebuild my chars. One by one.
Queue up for a few events.
Farm a few mods and make a few new costumes. And i call it a year
After just few weeks, i quit and cancel my gold membership again.
Those changes are intended to push people like me to buy a lifetime subscription and/or freeform slot on a per character basis.
Guess what ?
it's not gonna happen.
If i wanted to buy a lifetime sub i would have done so already.
The main reason i never did that, is because this game never offered anything that would make it more than a "filler" game for me.
This month subscription will be my last one.
PS : i think CO will earn a special perks for being the first game in history to try to blackmail its users by locking the chars they played for years under a 200 dollars paywall.
Even the most greedy p2w games make you pay for something new, not something you used to have.
I mean, i already paid the equivalent of SEVERAL lifetime subs for this game.
And in a few days i will have a grand total of ZERO playable characters.
Hilarious.
Protip : lifetime subscription are based on TRUST. And that's definetely NOT how trust is earned.
I've been playing this game since release, a few months in, a few months off.
Those changes are intended to push people like me to buy a lifetime subscription and/or freeform slot on a per character basis.
Guess what ?
it's not gonna happen.
If i wanted to buy a lifetime sub i would have done so already.
The main reason i never did that, is because this game never offered anything that would make it more than a "filler" game for me.
This month subscription will be my last one.
PS : i think CO will earn a special perks for being the first game in history to try to blackmail its users by locking the chars they played for years.
Even the most greedy p2w games make you pay for something new, not something you used to have.
Out of curiosity I did some price checking... CO is now more expensive than the most popular game in the world right now— Fortnite. The most expensive bundle in Fortnite is $149.99 and the cheapest is $39.99. SMH. While I understand the need to move out of the subscription model, CO has priced itself way to high. This isn't STO where players will drop a $100 (or more) for a starship. It's nowhere near that popular.
*Shrugs*
Like I said I'll be fine. I've been playing AT's for years and now I can color and customize their powers. But people who were really invested in their FF's. I just don't see them paying for LTS in large numbers.
Well, game is almost 10 years old.
another arc game was recently shut down permanently
2 others arc games will be shut down permanently in a few days.
So whoever buy a "lifetime" subscription in such a context has a very very optimistic defintion of "lifetime" and/or enough money to not care about it at all.
Can you change power colour after you make a character or is it something you choose at your character creation?
I want to know before I make a blood mage.
You can change power color at any time. I wouldn't recommend it in the middle of a fight - your opponents aren't going to politely wait for you to finish - but any time you have a moment, just click the buttons.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The only thing that really needs to be done to make this upcoming shift at least a little more palatable is to make at LEAST 1 or 2 of the six premium pack slots as Freeform ones, instead of forcing new players to pay that extra premium of $50 to even try out what's supposed to be the main draw of the game.
In terms of addressing how this will affect the long time subbers (like myself), the best solutions that's been offered for the time being is nothing better than a bandaid token that *might* happen in the future. This really should have been considered if this business model conversion has been in the planning for a year. At least throw the dedicated ones a better bone to chew on than what we're getting now. A grandfather system like others have mentioned elsewhere or something like it?
As it stands, I've kept up my (discounted) subscription for almost 6 years, so I've paid more than what the LTS is worth already. I don't plan on dropping it, but not going to lie-- my confidence in the state of the game is at the lowest it's ever been.
Following up the whole "being the longest running superhero MMO" thing you guys were parading around all last month, it's a gut punch even to me.
The most expensive bundle in Fortnite is $149.99 and the cheapest is $39.99. SMH. While I understand the need to move out of the subscription model, CO has priced itself way to high. This isn't STO where players will drop a $100 (or more) for a starship. It's nowhere near that popular.
Well... £15 for the Premium Pack and £10 for each AT unlocked after that sounds OK. That's affordable.
I don't play STO much but I do play a lot of Wargaming titles and I have happily spent £50 or more on a warship. There's nothing in CO worth that much, though.
Also: I know that if they mess with the ship, nerf it or change it, they have to offer me my money back. I lose the ship, but that's a fair exchange; Cryptic don't seem to be offering anything near that.
I don't quite get your angle to be quite honest... I don't see how this person venting their frustration means that they are out on some "hate crusade".
It's the fact that they're doing it obsessively in every post, simply stating the same thing over and over hoping it will catch on. It hasn't, and likely won't, but they'll keep trying. They admitted as much in the post just before this one, so my "angle" should be pretty clear - I'm just pointing out the obvious.
Yah, I get it. Two days of this now.. it's become clear to me that you are making attempts to distract from this company's bad reputation in hopes that it doesn't affect the viewpoints of others on the current state of affairs. That's about it, and I am far more sick of that dishonesty then the re-posting of justifiable frustrations with what unfortunately at least gives the appearance of being a money-grab event that is apparently repeating itself. I am more than happy to engage your opinion on the subject, but it's obvious that you are not offering a defense of the changes. You are just insisting that everyone else is wrong, and that they are spamming, and that they are "hate-mongering", and that they don't know enough about the history of the game, and any other unrelated issue you can muster. I have resolved to accept that you and I aren't going to have a very keen opinion of each-other in this game moving forward regardless of what ends up happening. I have very little patience for arguments that start attacking the individual instead of the merit of their argument. But once you do, gloves are off. I'm game.
Well, game is almost 10 years old.
another arc game was recently shut down permanently
2 others arc games will be shut down permanently in a few days.
So whoever buy a "lifetime" subscription in such a context has a very very optimistic defintion of "lifetime" and/or enough money to not care about it at all.
Well said, honestly. This change is hitting after this big "we achieved the longest running super hero title!" and the closure of those two other titles. For all we know, that could have been their initial goal just for the sake of the reputation boost they presumed it would give them (outlasting CoH that is). Nothing wrong with that inherently, but it does leave the consumer to wonder..
Out of curiosity I did some price checking... CO is now more expensive than the most popular game in the world right now— Fortnite. The most expensive bundle in Fortnite is $149.99 and the cheapest is $39.99. SMH. While I understand the need to move out of the subscription model, CO has priced itself way to high.
I mean... I own Fortnite and I play CO way more than I play that. Sure the whole battleroyale craze shot some steam up Fortnite's butt, but the craze will pass and CO will still be here.
Yah, I get it. Two days of this now.. it's become clear to me that you are making attempts to distract from this company's bad reputation in hopes that it doesn't affect the viewpoints of others on the current state of affairs.
Ah, I see the problem now. You haven't seen even a fraction of my posts on this issue. That would be the only way you could make such a misinformed statement.
Look I get it, some of you are just desperately looking for someone who's defending this so you can dogpile on them and get all your anger and frustration out with a good old fashioned forum lynching and you're willing to take even the slightest hint of disagreement as signs of "the shill". I'm not that person though, keep looking.
Out of curiosity I did some price checking... CO is now more expensive than the most popular game in the world right now— Fortnite. The most expensive bundle in Fortnite is $149.99 and the cheapest is $39.99. SMH. While I understand the need to move out of the subscription model, CO has priced itself way to high.
I mean... I own Fortnite and I play CO way more than I play that. Sure the whole battleroyale craze shot some steam up Fortnite's butt, but the craze will pass and CO will still be here.
Yah, I get it. Two days of this now.. it's become clear to me that you are making attempts to distract from this company's bad reputation in hopes that it doesn't affect the viewpoints of others on the current state of affairs.
Ah, I see the problem now. You haven't seen even a fraction of my posts on this issue. That would be the only way you could make such a misinformed statement.
Look I get it, some of you are just desperately looking for someone who's defending this so you can dogpile on them and get all your anger and frustration out with a good old fashioned forum lynching and you're willing to take even the slightest hint of disagreement as signs of "the shill". I'm not that person though, keep looking.
CO has barely ANY content development.
Barely any bugfixing (excused by old complicated engine)
Supported by a skeletoncrew dev-staff.
We have no guaranties this game won't get shut down without any warning... anytime soon.
Yet you want to strongarm people into paying you 200$ or Subscribe until the game dies,
if they want to keep their FFS.
And you want to force people to pay 50$ for a FF-slot .. that's the price of a AAA-game.. or 2.
And you want to stop giving players new char-slots - for NO REASON.
I call BS on this change. And anyone who isn't opposed it, is a fanboi, because this hits LTS as well.
I suspect CO wanted to remove the monthly sub, but had no intention of grandfathering people in. Removing the sub over time and trying to spin it as "nothing will change" was probably done in an attempt to avoid player backlash. However, Cryptic knows how often players flip between gold and silver. It will be a slow drain on sub numbers until they are so low Cryptic simply states no one will have gold subs any longer and hardly anyone will be left to complain. I won't be surprised to see gold subs removed for everyone by the end of the year. Possibly being slipped in with some special event extravaganza.
I mean, this was done on the same day Cryptic put up a "cheaper and better" option for costume slots while removing the account wide option. Unfortunately, players have proven they can do basic math and you don't need to have many characters before the account wide option is cheaper than the new "cheaper" slots.
.....this was done on the same day Cryptic put up a "cheaper and better" option for costume slots while removing the account wide option. Unfortunately, players have proven they can do basic math and you don't need to have many characters before the account wide option is cheaper than the new "cheaper" slots.
Maybe they counted on us not noticing the slap on the face while we were too distracted by the kick in the gonads.
Seems to be more of a PWI thing. I doubt it's coincidental that this change takes effect on the same day as two underperforming PWI games get shuttered.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Now we wait. The devs are taking our feedback to the knuckleheads running this thing and hopefully they can convey the severity of the "Sub players losing their FF slots forever" issue, maybe waving around both the big gaping hole of potential lost revenue should it not be addressed, and the big wad of stinky cash they could make if they do address it.
Let's hope so, spinny. There are so many missed tricks in the pricing of this game it's scarcely credible it's run by a professional game company.
I was reading comments in zone yesterday by a player who has an LTS but who hasn't played the game for two years. When he logged in yesterday, he found he had 24,000 Zen - £160's worth - in his account from unused stipends. The game is handing out cash shop stuff, for free, to players who aren't even playing the game any more. Dumb hardly covers it.
im confused guys, so when my sub ends and I cant buy any more sub time. Will I lose my FF toon?
From the article....
"What happens to my gold characters if my sub lapses?
If your sub lapses, and you had gold characters, they will change to silver like they would normally. If you want to keep them gold, you will have to purchase a lifetime sub. Otherwise, they will have to be converted to archetypes in order to be played."
So, let's play 'What If?..." (Didn't want to make Yet Another Thread About The Stuff Happening)
What if i have Lifetime Account and it has some AT characters?
Do those remain ATs or do i have to Train them to be FFs before the 7th Day hits the server?
What if i don't Train them to FFs before 7th as i should?
Is there a Full Facts page of Stuff that happens in 7th Day somewhere?
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Is there a Full Facts page of Stuff that happens in 7th Day somewhere?
I doubt it.
FWIW, I have some AT characters in Gold slots - at the moment you get a free Retrain you can use to turn them Freeform (accessible from the Character Select page). If you're concerned, use that. However that might make things worse if your sub lapses, as you can't turn Gold Freeforms into Silver ones and I've never tried it to know whether a Gold AT can be converted into a Silver one if you haven't bought the AT from the shop. Problems problems.
I have an LTS but I gotta say it would be really great if they decided to throw in a FF slot in with their premium pack and lowered the overall price of FF slots a little. I think that would help make it more enticing for people who are not already gold or have a LTS. Also I think it is about time they give another FF slot away for free...don't we have an anniversary coming up in a few months?(*hinthint*)
I have an LTS but I gotta say it would be really great if they decided to throw in a FF slot in with their premium pack and lowered the overall price of FF slots a little. I think that would help make it more enticing for people who are not already gold or have a LTS. Also I think it is about time they give another FF slot away for free...don't we have an anniversary coming up in a few months?(*hinthint*)
I'm thinking lower FF slots considerably. I'd be hard-pressed to sell someone on a $50 investment into ONE character when, for that $50(and a little tax) you can get a new game which will provide way more for your dollar
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
To be honest.... if they're going to go the "everything is PAYG" route then:
Character Slot - 750Z (fill it with a Free AT for nothing)
or
Archetype - 1250Z
Freeform - 2500Z
Then instead of having 33-50% sales (and no-one buying at the full price) you sell better value, higher spend bundles - New Archetype + New Costume Set - 2000Z, New Slot + Freeform - 3000Z, etc etc.
im confused guys, so when my sub ends and I cant buy any more sub time. Will I lose my FF toon?
If you don't let your sub lapse, it will continue on just as it is now (save that you don't get a free character slot when you get one to 40, which kind of feeds my altoholism - less incentive to stick with a single toon all the way to the top). If you let your sub lapse, there will be no resubscriptions, and you'll have to retrain your toon as an Archetype (which isn't the horror some paint it to be; the ATs aren't all as gimped as they used to be).
Now, I do have one question that hasn't been addressed in the FAQs I've seen so far - will there still be a distinction between free and premium ATs, or will they all become playable? (Taking away the concept of "premium AT" would, I think, do at least something to calm the waters...)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Now, I do have one question that hasn't been addressed in the FAQs I've seen so far - will there still be a distinction between free and premium ATs, or will they all become playable? (Taking away the concept of "premium AT" would, I think, do at least something to calm the waters...)
I think they said Paid/Premium ATs are paid, forget what of the 100 threads that was in.
So sub labs would lock those too (sadly gold probably couldn't earn them from events, as LTS they were owned)
That's true as a Gold sub you had access to all ATs, BUT if you let your sub lapse you have to convert them into a free AT. As a Gold sub you couldn't buy ATs in the store, they were avaible for you to play but you never really owned them.
Greetings, Champions. After listening to your feedback these past few days, we're taking a harder look at this feature and how to better implement it. We'll have more news in the future, but for now this will not be launching on June 7th.
Hopeful translation: Thanks for helping us convince the suits to at least slow down on this crap. We're still doing the Premium Pack thing - we have to, it's corporate policy - but maybe now we have one last chance to convince them not to make it a total clusterfrak.
(I speak Bureaucrat, and that's anyway the way it reads to me.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Who knows what will come of this, but well done to those who spoke up and commented on this issue. It was good to see a (for the most part) united front.
That Premium pack should be changed to unlock all characters that were made while a subscription was active.
THIS
This should be additional feature and convert all the locked characters into Special FF slots
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Okay, since the Premium Pack seems inevitable, let's start collecting suggestions for improvements. I'll start:
1) Give each account one Silver FF slot. (I was going to specify "each account which does not already have an FF slot", but I'm uncertain the software can be configured like that.) Remember that FF is one of the two real selling points of this game, the other being the Character Creator. Keeping it locked behind an LTS seems counterproductive - make somebody pay $300 US in order to find out whether they like making FF toons?
2) Make the slots in a Premium Pack all FF, either Silver or Gold. (Since power coloration is part of the Pack, Gold would make the most sense.) That way it becomes another point to sell the Pack - if you liked making that one free FF, now you can do that with all your toons!
3) Remove the concept of Premium ATs - make all ATs available to all players for free. (Most of the Premium ATs aren't really that special anyway.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Jon, your suggestions would explode the value of that 15$ pack. It's already quite packed with value so I don't see them convincing themselves it needs even more.
Also, FF isn't locked behind LTS - Free Form Slots are available in the store.
One free FF slot for an account, after leveling some number of ATs to 40, is something I still support. I want it to have the requirement of leveling at least 1 AT first so the player gets some experience with how the game functions before they go stumbling through their first mess of a FF. Also helps to lessen the reality that some people will keep creating new accounts to get more FFs.
So, like the Automaton's Rocket Fist - get one toon to 40 to unlock a single Freeform? Yeah, I can see that working.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
as i posted in the release notes thread.
This makes 2 expensive options for obtaining FF , the main draw of the game.
If they lowered its price to $15(dbl an AT slot cost), they will sell loads. Better to sell lots at a cheaper price than only a few spaced apart(sales) at the higher price.
Removing subs also decreases the zen on the Q exchange, so less people can save up for a FF slot.
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This doesn't change my argument that the change is creating a paywall in front of content that was available prior to the update. I don't care more about them enforcing the cap than making changes that require more payments to be made for all non-cap players. And why would I or anyone else who has not reached that point feel any different? The fact that it can and has been abused by players for years is directly related to the lack of quality control of Cryptic. I understand enough about how coding works to know that creating a cap on unlocks cannot be an impossible fix. There is just no way that it is impossible. Why it hasn't been done is beyond me, but I am sure it more or less relates to the aforementioned issue of negligence or a complete lack of care on the part of the devs. It is far more likely that they have not cared about it enough to fix the problem like every other flipping bug/glitch in this game. I have PLENTY of examples to justify that assumption; as would anyone who has played this game for more than 10 hours.
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As someone who does not have 180 toons, 100 toons, or even 40 toons, I am not looking forward to the prospect of dumping another $300 or so on top of my LTS just to meet the cap which is apparently woefully under veterans just because they can't fix what should be a simple problem. And regardless, there has been no communication on this issue up until now as far as I can tell. And had i known I would have to invest that extra $300 in character slots alone just to meet the cap then I would NEVER have purchased the LTS (not to even mention that subscriptions would be ending). One of the biggest reasons I even made the decision to make the purchase initially was due to my realization that we unlocked characters through leveling. It offered enough value to me knowing that I could xp-grind my way to additional toons as opposed to needing to keep paying to unlock extras. Now to just merely get the same exact experience I would have had prior to this update I would have to invest hundreds more. That will never be a change/solution that I will accept as practical or fair.
(New Paragraph)
That all being said, I am not going to base my overall opinion of these changes on my own personal vendetta of wasted cash as I do genuinely accept the risk/loss associated with my purchase. 'Them's the breaks' when it comes to any game purchases at this stage. If it isn't early access, it's some wallet-gouging MMO on it's last leg. I've almost become numb to it at this point. But unfortunately, this change has a far larger impact on my friends running gold who have without a doubt wasted their time and money after recently joining me in this game due to my suggestion. None of them jumped in for more than $15 a month, and were already questioning that price tag to begin with for what little the game offered in terms of development. This now took that price and catapulted it up into the triple digits just for them to continue on with the same content they had prior to this update WITHOUT the prospect of unlocking new toons. And lets face it, keeping your monthly subscription going is hardly even a practical option because you will still likely to eventually be locked out at some stage and be forced to make a large purchase either by way of purchasing the now worthless LTS or hundreds of dollars worth of freeform tokens (thousands if you are at cap... think about that; LTS is really the only feasible option).
10 to 1 the decision came down from PWE to drop subscriptions and it was up to Cryptic to decide how to do it. That's why it's happening exactly the same way as it did before PWE took over in the first place and screwing over players. It's Cryptic's MO.
I wasn't arguing that it doesn't create a paywall, I recognize that fact...that is all I really need to say here.
Everyone is well aware by this point that you're very salty towards Cryptic and you really really hope everyone will join you in your little hate crusade.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't quite get your angle to be quite honest... I don't see how this person venting their frustration means that they are out on some "hate crusade". As far as I can tell, they have been affected by a very similar change many years prior, and history is effectively repeating itself. If you were around for both of these events, my question for you is why you wouldn't you also be outraged to some extent as well. Is it out of fear for the games health/longevity? Respect or friendship for/with the current dev team? Just curious.
Yeah, I am, and I'm hoping that people will actually fight this instead of letting it happen again. Holding Cryptic accountable is part of that. Getting people riled up about it is the only way anything has a *chance* of changing. Complacency did no one any favors last time.
When I heard the announcement I was excited. I thought I'd be able to actually play my old characters once again without being forced to keep my sub active and not play my silvers while it was. Then I read the full thing and was immensely disappointed and infuriated that Cryptic was pulling the same once-over they did back in the day. So yeah, I'm salty. I'm angry. You should be, too, because I'm sure I'm not the only player that would *love* to have my freeforms back, would *love* to come back to the game and would *love* to support the game in the future as I have in the past, but crap like this pushes me away.
This actively hurts the game's already struggling population and makes former players even more unlikely to return and new players even more unlikely to play or support the game at all. If Cryptic can't see it they're blind, but more likely they know exactly what they're doing and they're choosing the few that will spend out the **** over the majority that won't. They don't care about the playerbase, or how losing and turning away players would affect the game.
Or they could prove me wrong and change things. Only way that will happen is if they're convinced to, by the players.
It's the fact that they're doing it obsessively in every post, simply stating the same thing over and over hoping it will catch on. It hasn't, and likely won't, but they'll keep trying. They admitted as much in the post just before this one, so my "angle" should be pretty clear - I'm just pointing out the obvious.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It saddens me that after all these years, this question can still be asked without having to invoke a certain level of hyperbole to make it work.
I'm baffled by some of these impending changes.
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Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Not to be bitter, ok I am a little. The head honchos running this game don't give a flying fart if the players get riled up. Really, they don't. Just add up the facts and do the math. A similar change was put through on STO. Plus two of PWI's lower peformers are shutting down the same week this change goes live. We've also heard rumors this was planned out a year ago. This ship is not turning around. Once something hits the announcement stage around here, it's a done deal.
I'm not saying you can't rant, but the PWI doesn't care.
I want to know before I make a blood mage.
2. These changes are fine except for the Free Form issue.
3. 50 dollars is the price of a full AAA game. FF slots are NOT and have never been worth 50 dollars.
4. The competition for our entertainment dollars is VERY stiff rite now. If you EVER subbed to CO then you deserve access to FF just for choosing CO over the mountains of other competent FTP games everywhere.
5. Gold members should retain access to all the FFs on their account.
6. All accounts should have the 1st FF slot for free.
7. FF slots should be no more than 10 dollars and the 50 dollar payment should unlock FF unlimited FF slots.
8. This small but dedicated community of players have made CO the longest standing superhero MMO and they deserve better.
9. If you ever spent 50 dollars on subs you deserve a FF slot after these changes at the very least.
10. If you aver spent 200 dollars on a sub you deserve full FF access.
11. I'm concerned that these changes could cause people to walk away, and I don't think that CO could sustain another Cryptic screw up.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I go back to Champions Online everytime i quit another game and wait for new one.
Everytime this happens, i get a monthly subscription to get my freeform characters back.
Then i spend ages in the powerhouse to rebuild my chars. One by one.
Queue up for a few events.
Farm a few mods and make a few new costumes. And i call it a year
After just few weeks, i quit and cancel my gold membership again.
Those changes are intended to push people like me to buy a lifetime subscription and/or freeform slot on a per character basis.
Guess what ?
it's not gonna happen.
If i wanted to buy a lifetime sub i would have done so already.
The main reason i never did that, is because this game never offered anything that would make it more than a "filler" game for me.
This month subscription will be my last one.
PS : i think CO will earn a special perks for being the first game in history to try to blackmail its users by locking the chars they played for years under a 200 dollars paywall.
Even the most greedy p2w games make you pay for something new, not something you used to have.
I mean, i already paid the equivalent of SEVERAL lifetime subs for this game.
And in a few days i will have a grand total of ZERO playable characters.
Hilarious.
Protip : lifetime subscription are based on TRUST. And that's definetely NOT how trust is earned.
Out of curiosity I did some price checking... CO is now more expensive than the most popular game in the world right now— Fortnite. The most expensive bundle in Fortnite is $149.99 and the cheapest is $39.99. SMH. While I understand the need to move out of the subscription model, CO has priced itself way to high. This isn't STO where players will drop a $100 (or more) for a starship. It's nowhere near that popular.
*Shrugs*
Like I said I'll be fine. I've been playing AT's for years and now I can color and customize their powers. But people who were really invested in their FF's. I just don't see them paying for LTS in large numbers.
another arc game was recently shut down permanently
2 others arc games will be shut down permanently in a few days.
So whoever buy a "lifetime" subscription in such a context has a very very optimistic defintion of "lifetime" and/or enough money to not care about it at all.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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In terms of addressing how this will affect the long time subbers (like myself), the best solutions that's been offered for the time being is nothing better than a bandaid token that *might* happen in the future. This really should have been considered if this business model conversion has been in the planning for a year. At least throw the dedicated ones a better bone to chew on than what we're getting now. A grandfather system like others have mentioned elsewhere or something like it?
As it stands, I've kept up my (discounted) subscription for almost 6 years, so I've paid more than what the LTS is worth already. I don't plan on dropping it, but not going to lie-- my confidence in the state of the game is at the lowest it's ever been.
Following up the whole "being the longest running superhero MMO" thing you guys were parading around all last month, it's a gut punch even to me.
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Well... £15 for the Premium Pack and £10 for each AT unlocked after that sounds OK. That's affordable.
I don't play STO much but I do play a lot of Wargaming titles and I have happily spent £50 or more on a warship. There's nothing in CO worth that much, though.
Also: I know that if they mess with the ship, nerf it or change it, they have to offer me my money back. I lose the ship, but that's a fair exchange; Cryptic don't seem to be offering anything near that.
Yah, I get it. Two days of this now.. it's become clear to me that you are making attempts to distract from this company's bad reputation in hopes that it doesn't affect the viewpoints of others on the current state of affairs. That's about it, and I am far more sick of that dishonesty then the re-posting of justifiable frustrations with what unfortunately at least gives the appearance of being a money-grab event that is apparently repeating itself. I am more than happy to engage your opinion on the subject, but it's obvious that you are not offering a defense of the changes. You are just insisting that everyone else is wrong, and that they are spamming, and that they are "hate-mongering", and that they don't know enough about the history of the game, and any other unrelated issue you can muster. I have resolved to accept that you and I aren't going to have a very keen opinion of each-other in this game moving forward regardless of what ends up happening. I have very little patience for arguments that start attacking the individual instead of the merit of their argument. But once you do, gloves are off. I'm game.
Well said, honestly. This change is hitting after this big "we achieved the longest running super hero title!" and the closure of those two other titles. For all we know, that could have been their initial goal just for the sake of the reputation boost they presumed it would give them (outlasting CoH that is). Nothing wrong with that inherently, but it does leave the consumer to wonder..
I mean... I own Fortnite and I play CO way more than I play that. Sure the whole battleroyale craze shot some steam up Fortnite's butt, but the craze will pass and CO will still be here.
Ah, I see the problem now. You haven't seen even a fraction of my posts on this issue. That would be the only way you could make such a misinformed statement.
Look I get it, some of you are just desperately looking for someone who's defending this so you can dogpile on them and get all your anger and frustration out with a good old fashioned forum lynching and you're willing to take even the slightest hint of disagreement as signs of "the shill". I'm not that person though, keep looking.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Glad to have you aboard then.
CO has barely ANY content development.
Barely any bugfixing (excused by old complicated engine)
Supported by a skeletoncrew dev-staff.
We have no guaranties this game won't get shut down without any warning... anytime soon.
Yet you want to strongarm people into paying you 200$ or Subscribe until the game dies,
if they want to keep their FFS.
And you want to force people to pay 50$ for a FF-slot .. that's the price of a AAA-game.. or 2.
And you want to stop giving players new char-slots - for NO REASON.
I call BS on this change. And anyone who isn't opposed it, is a fanboi, because this hits LTS as well.
I mean, this was done on the same day Cryptic put up a "cheaper and better" option for costume slots while removing the account wide option. Unfortunately, players have proven they can do basic math and you don't need to have many characters before the account wide option is cheaper than the new "cheaper" slots.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Maybe they counted on us not noticing the slap on the face while we were too distracted by the kick in the gonads.
oof!
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Now we wait. The devs are taking our feedback to the knuckleheads running this thing and hopefully they can convey the severity of the "Sub players losing their FF slots forever" issue, maybe waving around both the big gaping hole of potential lost revenue should it not be addressed, and the big wad of stinky cash they could make if they do address it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I was reading comments in zone yesterday by a player who has an LTS but who hasn't played the game for two years. When he logged in yesterday, he found he had 24,000 Zen - £160's worth - in his account from unused stipends. The game is handing out cash shop stuff, for free, to players who aren't even playing the game any more. Dumb hardly covers it.
From the article....
"What happens to my gold characters if my sub lapses?
If your sub lapses, and you had gold characters, they will change to silver like they would normally. If you want to keep them gold, you will have to purchase a lifetime sub. Otherwise, they will have to be converted to archetypes in order to be played."
Full article: https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/10916073
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What if i have Lifetime Account and it has some AT characters?
Do those remain ATs or do i have to Train them to be FFs before the 7th Day hits the server?
What if i don't Train them to FFs before 7th as i should?
Is there a Full Facts page of Stuff that happens in 7th Day somewhere?
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I doubt it.
FWIW, I have some AT characters in Gold slots - at the moment you get a free Retrain you can use to turn them Freeform (accessible from the Character Select page). If you're concerned, use that. However that might make things worse if your sub lapses, as you can't turn Gold Freeforms into Silver ones and I've never tried it to know whether a Gold AT can be converted into a Silver one if you haven't bought the AT from the shop. Problems problems.
I'm thinking lower FF slots considerably. I'd be hard-pressed to sell someone on a $50 investment into ONE character when, for that $50(and a little tax) you can get a new game which will provide way more for your dollar
42 40s, LTSer.
Character Slot - 750Z (fill it with a Free AT for nothing)
or
Archetype - 1250Z
Freeform - 2500Z
Then instead of having 33-50% sales (and no-one buying at the full price) you sell better value, higher spend bundles - New Archetype + New Costume Set - 2000Z, New Slot + Freeform - 3000Z, etc etc.
Now, I do have one question that hasn't been addressed in the FAQs I've seen so far - will there still be a distinction between free and premium ATs, or will they all become playable? (Taking away the concept of "premium AT" would, I think, do at least something to calm the waters...)
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I think they said Paid/Premium ATs are paid, forget what of the 100 threads that was in.
So sub labs would lock those too (sadly gold probably couldn't earn them from events, as LTS they were owned)
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1211245/june-subscriber-reward-and-the-premium-pack
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(I speak Bureaucrat, and that's anyway the way it reads to me.)
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Unfortunately I think they chucked the baby with the h2o cause they're also delaying the Premium pack?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
THIS
This should be additional feature and convert all the locked characters into Special FF slots
1) Give each account one Silver FF slot. (I was going to specify "each account which does not already have an FF slot", but I'm uncertain the software can be configured like that.) Remember that FF is one of the two real selling points of this game, the other being the Character Creator. Keeping it locked behind an LTS seems counterproductive - make somebody pay $300 US in order to find out whether they like making FF toons?
2) Make the slots in a Premium Pack all FF, either Silver or Gold. (Since power coloration is part of the Pack, Gold would make the most sense.) That way it becomes another point to sell the Pack - if you liked making that one free FF, now you can do that with all your toons!
3) Remove the concept of Premium ATs - make all ATs available to all players for free. (Most of the Premium ATs aren't really that special anyway.)
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Also, FF isn't locked behind LTS - Free Form Slots are available in the store.
One free FF slot for an account, after leveling some number of ATs to 40, is something I still support. I want it to have the requirement of leveling at least 1 AT first so the player gets some experience with how the game functions before they go stumbling through their first mess of a FF. Also helps to lessen the reality that some people will keep creating new accounts to get more FFs.
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Kinda throws a monkey wrench in, doesn't it?
championswiki.com
This makes 2 expensive options for obtaining FF , the main draw of the game.
If they lowered its price to $15(dbl an AT slot cost), they will sell loads. Better to sell lots at a cheaper price than only a few spaced apart(sales) at the higher price.
Removing subs also decreases the zen on the Q exchange, so less people can save up for a FF slot.
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They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!