I kinda feel for people who bring up this topic because I wanna say, "Yeah, just let them play!" but the answer is simply: Because if they removed the limits, nobody would be available to you help you get your gear.
Why should getting max gearing take a long time?
Because it is the max. I mean, you don't HAVE to make it take long, but if you aren't rewarded for time and effort to an equal degree then why have gear at all? You could remove it entirely since we'd all have it soon enough.
Really, it isn't a big deal. Mercenary, Heroic, Legion. These are end game gears. You can use stuff like bronze king or just normal green and blue unlocks and still do Adventure Packs or level 40 missions. You don't need better gear if you don't want to, you'll still be powerful. In fact, if max gear was easy to acquire, it would be worst because it would be a MUST. You would HAVE to have it because since everyone could easily get it, all content would have to be balanced around that baseline.
So don't stress. Long gear progression for MAX gear is fine. You don't need the Legendary stuff. The game isn't balanced around it. Just unlock gear at your own pace.
Because it is the max. I mean, it doesn't HAVE to take a long time, but there should always be something to chase out there. If it only took a little while to get max gear, things would be worst. You would HAVE to have it since content would all be balanced around a population of people with max gear.
It actually isn't a big deal. Mercenary, Heroic, Legion. These are higher tier end game gears. You can use stuff like bronze king or just normal green and blue unlocks and still do any content. If you don't like chasing MAX UBER LEGENDARY GEAR!1!1!! well then that is fine. You don't have to, it isn't needed. It really isn't. However, if you like min/maxing your character, there it is.
So don't stress. You don't need the Legendary stuff. The game isn't balanced around it.
Looks like Legion gear is coming back, and coming to the Drifter store. (latest PTS patch) That means another viable way to get high end gear, better than Heroic, without grinding through Cosmics.
Looks like an option is being given to the players.
Having it take a long time to get a set of gear only delays the inevitable re-roll or quit.
"Delaying the inevitable" -> "people keep playing the game longer".
The problem with this equation is that "longer" does not equal "more." Time-locking the end-game coin drops simply means that it takes more days to get the gear, not more hours. It takes X successful runs of Cosmics/TA/Eido to earn enough coinage to get the end-game gear. Time-locking the coinage does not increase that number Y of hours needing to be played. All it means is that those hours will be spread out over more days. It does not actually take "longer" in terms of hours spent in-game.
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SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Looks like Legion gear is coming back, and coming to the Drifter store. (latest PTS patch)
That means another viable way to get high end gear, better than Heroic, without grinding through Cosmics.
Looks like an option is being given to the players.
Correction: This gives more options to the WHALES who open LOOTBOXES
are they going to cost around 250 Drifter Salvage each? hahaha
But they are Bound on Equip meaning they are tradable
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Looks like Legion gear is coming back, and coming to the Drifter store. (latest PTS patch) That means another viable way to get high end gear, better than Heroic, without grinding through Cosmics.
Looks like an option is being given to the players.
Seems like a welcome change, rather than getting it at pure random in lootboxes.
Looks like Legion gear is coming back, and coming to the Drifter store. (latest PTS patch) That means another viable way to get high end gear, better than Heroic, without grinding through Cosmics.
Looks like an option is being given to the players.
Correction: This gives more options to the WHALES who open LOOTBOXES
are they going to cost around 250 Drifter Salvage each? hahaha But they are Bound on Equip meaning they are tradable
"I always wonder why people want to tell me that the way I am enjoying a game is wrong. If that person doesn't like it for whatever reason, fine. I'm going to keep enjoying it the way I want to."
You can't enjoy what Cryptic doesn't give you. There are things the game does not support. Gear chasing is one of those things. Solo end game is another.
Making gear more grindy to acquire benefits the developers, not the players. If Cryptic really gave a toss about catering to people who like to chase gear, Legion would be available by playing the game instead of opening your wallet. The progression system to go from fresh 40 to GCR gear would actually exist. Gear that is interesting instead of stat sticks would have been added.
Because it is the max. I mean, it doesn't HAVE to take a long time, but there should always be something to chase out there. If it only took a little while to get max gear, things would be worst. You would HAVE to have it since content would all be balanced around a population of people with max gear.
Chase items are costume bits, not gear. How would things be worse if it didn't take long to get max gear? Why would the game ever need to be balanced around people with max gear? There are games that exist for you to be OP in and it doesn't automatically equal less fun.
Having something to do is more important than what gear you have on. We have an eight year old game that's never had a level cap increase and has almost zero end game unless you like to alt. The problems is there are very few options.
"So, giving us LESS content was the solution?"
Hard not to agree considering Hotspot SCR was taken away and Justice gear now has the same GCR requirements of other gear, which is an option taken away. We certainly don't see much stuff to do added anymore. It's mostly just updated old content and the rare Cosmic. Even worse, a lot of stuff to get is tied to events. If there isn't an event... well... I'm not the only one that barely logs in.
I always wonder why people want to tell me that the way I am enjoying a game is wrong. If that person doesn't like it for whatever reason, fine. I'm going to keep enjoying it the way I want to.
Indeed, I do not see a real reason why getting gear should be quick and easy. For the reasons I gave earlier. While, myself, am not into the gear grind, and am more into the costume/alt side of things, I do recognize the need for alternative forms of end game. Cause, if Sterga is right, and gear matters not...than maybe gear should just be removed from the game altogether...but, that would actually kill CO. So, bad idea. If you enjoy grinding for gear, all the more power to you. Of course, there does need to be a balance.
Having it take a long time to get a set of gear only delays the inevitable re-roll or quit.
"Delaying the inevitable" -> "people keep playing the game longer".
The problem with this equation is that "longer" does not equal "more." Time-locking the end-game coin drops simply means that it takes more days to get the gear, not more hours. It takes X successful runs of Cosmics/TA/Eido to earn enough coinage to get the end-game gear. Time-locking the coinage does not increase that number Y of hours needing to be played. All it means is that those hours will be spread out over more days. It does not actually take "longer" in terms of hours spent in-game.
At the same time, them playing longer means a longer life for the game, because those people are there. Like I said earlier, if they got the max gear quick and easy, they would quit the game sooner out of bordem. This has been how many games in the past were killed, was by quick gearing up...for nothing. Followed by bordem....followed by quiting. So, by time-locking stuff, you extend the life span and interest of the players involved. Typically speaking, hardcore grinders, tend to out number the amount of non-hardcore grinders in games. And from my experiences with the 100+ mmos I've played, the companies tend to cater to the hardcore grinders, not the casuals like me. As much as I want things easier for myself, I recognize the fact of how a game needs longevity.
Because it is the max. I mean, it doesn't HAVE to take a long time, but there should always be something to chase out there. If it only took a little while to get max gear, things would be worst. You would HAVE to have it since content would all be balanced around a population of people with max gear.
Chase items are costume bits, not gear. How would things be worse if it didn't take long to get max gear? Why would the game ever need to be balanced around people with max gear? There are games that exist for you to be OP in and it doesn't automatically equal less fun.
It can be both. Costumes and gear are both something players can chase for. ' And the reason for why it would be worst is because yes, the game isn't designed for everything to be a breeze to play through. Content will be balanced around the "average" player and harder content around the upper tier of players. Some people already complain that new content is hard because it is balanced around "elite" players with amazing gear. It isn't, but if it was then you would HAVE to get that end game gear to participate. ESPECIALLY if it was easy to get, because that would be the new "average" that the content would be balanced around.
At the moment, level 40 unique gear is easy to get. Mercenary, Heroic, Legendary - you don't HAVE to have these. They are for maximizing your performance. So are we complaining that the highest rung on the ladder is too high to reach because they can't be bothered to use the rungs 3/4ths of the way up there?
Having something to do is more important than what gear you have on. We have an eight year old game that's never had a level cap increase and has almost zero end game unless you like to alt. The problems is there are very few options.
Yes! Exactly. So don't worry that there are 3 sets of gears in the game that take a long time to get?
Chase items are costume bits, not gear. How would things be worse if it didn't take long to get max gear?
There's two possibilities here:
Gear is irrelevant. If this is true, why do you care how hard it is to get?
Gear matters. If this is true, it's appropriate to require effort to get it.
This doesn't even try to answer the question you quoted. In fact, this scenario has absolutely nothing to do with my question and I have no idea why you quoted me and wrote this. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
Your attitude seems to be 'gear is unimportant, but I want max gear'. That doesn't make sense.
YOU don't make sense. Devs care so little about the gear you get while leveling that they gave people a way to purchase leveling gear and added green gear to lockboxes instead of updating the already exiting items. Plus, there isn't even a reason to bother with two of the sets that are stepping stones to GCR gear. Sounds a whole lot like something the developers have done and nothing to do with any attitude I may or may not have.
I also already have max gear on the only character I care about. No idea how I can want something I already have.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"[..] than maybe gear should just be removed from the game altogether...but, that would actually kill CO."
Gear has been effectively removed from the entire leveling process. People still make alts-a-plenty. More likely to hear complaints about more junky mods sucking up bag space or stupid green gear drops in reward boxes. Seems like the general attitude towards gear is that it is annoying. Except when it magically isn't.
Outside of removing something to do when there isn't enough things to do and some re-balancing needs, I think CO would be just fine without any gear.
"It can be both. Costumes and gear are both something players can chase for."
This can only be true IF the developers start supporting gear chasing. They have not done so. They are not going to do so. There was an opportunity to make Legion gear gained from gameplay. The developers chose to shove it into the Drifter store for your delicious dollars.
"[...] the game isn't designed for everything to be a breeze to play through"
I can spend one weekend getting a character from 1 to 40. Gearing up for end game is as easy as buying it all via the Q store / AH / gamble boxes. The next weekend I can do all of the Cosmics and TA and Warzone dailies. After that, it's just a matter of doing that same content over and over until I finally get all of the GCR / SCR I need to purchase something. Is that not breezy?
If you mean difficulty wise: If I can do all of the "end game" in a single weekend, how hard is it really?
"At the moment, level 40 unique gear is easy to get. Mercenary, Heroic, Legendary - you don't HAVE to have these. They are for maximizing your performance."
Legendary is not a gear type, it is a rarity type and thus cannot be unique which is also a rarity type. Did you mean Legion?
This game doesn't need to exist. Top that.
If I want max gear faster because I like to crush all the things with my super powered super hero is the way I like to have fun is wrong and bad? Or if I want max gear faster because it makes farming for globals easier than I am wrong for wanting to have fun this way? Seems like you're just saying that what I enjoy doing in the game is not the right way to enjoy CO.
Keep in mind gear used to be much faster to acquire and Heroics becoming far more grinder to get was bitched about quite a bit. The game becoming grinder did not improve it's popularity. Hell, people still throw out the occasional complaint about RNG making Justice gear take forever to get. Honestly am confused about people not liking other grind for gear but being totally fine with GCR gear grind.
"So are we complaining that the highest rung on the ladder is too high to reach because they can't be bothered to use the rungs 3/4ths of the way up there?"
I don't know what you're criticizing.
So don't worry that there are 3 sets of gears in the game that take a long time to get?
The whole point of this topic was allowing players a choice in how quickly they acquire GCR gear. Are you saying that I shouldn't talk about the time it takes to acquire gear in a post about how long it takes to acquire gear?
I don't get the point of why this needed to be said. No game needs to exist. Ever. But they do and they serve the purpose of entertainment obviously. Top that, I guess?
If I want max gear faster because I like to crush all the things with my super powered super hero is the way I like to have fun is wrong and bad? Or if I want max gear faster because it makes farming for globals easier than I am wrong for wanting to have fun this way? Seems like you're just saying that what I enjoy doing in the game is not the right way to enjoy CO.
I don't know what other types of games you're playing at the moment that goes against such conventions, but a concept like that doesn't work for a MMORPG, especially a F2P one, because the carrot-and-stick has to exist at some level. The grind and time gate has to exist to keep players playing and work towards a goal they find worthy of putting the effort in to attain. High end gear for any MMO is supposed to take a whole lot of effort and time to get, because they serve the purpose of gearing up players who want to take their performance to their limits when doing difficult end game content. "Doing it the way I want" as you seem to be describing might work in some other games with entirely different reward and progression systems, just not one like this.
Also, you can already "crush all the things" with heroic or merc gear. Heck, you can even do it with regular blues and purps, right up to rampage alerts. If we're talking about cosmics, heroic or merc is pretty sufficient at starter level, and the distinction between high end and lower end gear is irrelevant to how quickly you can farm for globals.
If the rationale of wanting all high end gear to be much more quickly accessible has to do with finding no fun factor in playing the game and grinding for the gear, mainly to override said grinding, then that seems to be an entirely different and personal issue altogether.
If I want max gear faster because I like to crush all the things with my super powered super hero is the way I like to have fun is wrong and bad? Or if I want max gear faster because it makes farming for globals easier than I am wrong for wanting to have fun this way? Seems like you're just saying that what I enjoy doing in the game is not the right way to enjoy CO.
But you don't need max gear to crush this game. Max gear just makes crushing things about 10% faster. Is that 10% faster really the difference between "having fun" and "not having fun"?
@Sterga would still play if max level and gear could both be achieved super fast. Likely I would still play, too. Many of us here in the forums would.
I am not so sure that is true of many other players, though. There are players that play until maxing out their toon, maybe maxing out a second one (level and gear), and then leave. Champs wants to maximize how long those players stay, because of the chance that they will spend money through the Z store or actually decide to sub.
Maybe read the post I was replying to that was making a "need" argument? Maybe you'll understand context then?
GCR gear has been around for YEARS with no new max gear taking it's place and no content made to have it. No one that wanted max gear doesn't already have it unless they haven't been playing long.
I don't know what other types of games you're playing at the moment that goes against such conventions, but a concept like that doesn't work for a MMORPG, especially a F2P one, because the carrot-and-stick has to exist at some level.
Carrot and stick exist in CO as COSMETICS not gear.
For the rest of your claims, how do you know an MMO that does something different wouldn't work? Are there even examples of any well funded, well made MMO that doesn't use the cookie cutter templates existing? You like to say how things are supposed to be with no way of knowing if other options could be better or even asking "why should it be this way". Positive change doesn't happen when everyone gives up and accepts things the way they are because creating something new is too hard.
CO devs have never had any real f---s to give about gear. Wouldn't that mean this games has been working for eight years without the gear grind? Isn't this very game counter to your claims of gear grind being required for success?
"High end gear for any MMO is supposed to take a whole lot of effort and time to get, because they serve the purpose of gearing up players who want to take their performance to their limits when doing difficult end game content."
[...]
"If we're talking about cosmics, heroic or merc is pretty sufficient at starter level, and the distinction between high end and lower end gear is irrelevant to how quickly you can farm for globals."
Are you kidding with this? You are contradicting your own claims on how important gear grind is and then pointing out the best gear in the game isn't even needed for the end game content and thus irrelevant.
"Also, you can already "crush all the things" with heroic or merc gear. Heck, you can even do it with regular blues and purps, right up to rampage alerts [...]"
It makes me sad that people don't see their own hypocrisy in criticizing play style choices. My play style choice is clearly bad and wrong, even though gear is insignificant and neglected by the developers themselves. Yet just pointing out that gear chasing doesn't exists in CO got a few "don't criticize play style jerk" comments.
Maybe the Endgame Gear was the friends we made along the way
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Carrot on stick exists in CO as both cosmetics and gear, because the folks in charge realize that there are players who care about both, and the number of people farming for the endgame gear supports that.
"Players in MMO want gear" isn't exactly a new concept, ya know?
And yeah, CO went many years letting you get your endgame gear in a matter of hours, and had issues because of it with no benefits to match. There's no need for a second experiment to see if it could work - the experiment was already run, and the conclusion was that it didn't work. That's why they changed that.
Hand in hand with the gear grind changes came the fact that now you don't have to spend months/years grinding npcs with a 0.001% drop chance to get your costumes, you can get those from a token vendor too and you'll know how close to getting them you are. The current system is a complete overall improvement over the old system in terms of both gear and cosmetics. Of course, if you liked the old way of getting cosmetics it's still there. Since it's been proven that Heroic gear is equal to blue stuff you can buy off the exchange, that old method is effectively still there as well.
Maybe read the post I was replying to that was making a "need" argument? Maybe you'll understand context then?
Oh I understood the context fine. It's still a ridiculous thing to say as an argument against a factual statement being made about high end gear aren't crucial for a toon to perform competently. "Well, this game doesn't need to exist anyway!"; Who uses that as counter-argument in any context of discussion regarding video games other than just to spite someone?
GCR gear has been around for YEARS with no new max gear taking it's place and no content made to have it. No one that wanted max gear doesn't already have it unless they haven't been playing long.
You're assuming that 1) Nobody makes new alts that they want high end gear for, ever, and 2) No new players join the game to stick around long enough to aim for high end gear and 3) No returning player wants to aim for the same.
Carrot and stick exist in CO as COSMETICS not gear.
Um, no. Not true. Objectively high end gear exists as carrot-and-stick. Anyone who's played enough MMORPGs can tell straight away. You don't just change the facts just because you personally feel they shouldn't qualify for carrot-and-stick, because carrot-and-stick is defined by a reward system designed to take time and effort to obtain the rewards, and that applies to gear.
For the rest of your claims, how do you know an MMO that does something different wouldn't work? Are there even examples of any well funded, well made MMO that doesn't use the cookie cutter templates existing? You like to say how things are supposed to be with no way of knowing if other options could be better or even asking "why should it be this way". Positive change doesn't happen when everyone gives up and accepts things the way they are because creating something new is too hard.
Any RPG that I've played, MMO or not, don't quickly give you the best gear available right off the bat, or even in a few days like what you think is acceptable game design. Letting lowbie / new players get the best gear quicker that what we have right now and steamrolling through low level content has never been something I'd regard as "working".
CO devs have never had any real f---s to give about gear. Wouldn't that mean this games has been working for eight years without the gear grind? Isn't this very game counter to your claims of gear grind being required for success?
What are you even talking about? Devs obviously regard gear as something significant in the game. Over the years we've already gotten multiple tiers of high end gear that goes beyond the Heroics. The devs obviously treat gear grind as part of game mechanics and a reason to get players to keep playing.
Are you kidding with this? You are contradicting your own claims on how important gear grind is and then pointing out the best gear in the game isn't even needed for the end game content and thus irrelevant.
Um, no contradiction here. Read what I've said again. I've said that heroic and merc is sufficient as starter level. Higher-tiered gear like Distinguished is something people want to farm for if they want to maximize their performance for difficult end game content like cosmics. Are you under the impression that heroic and merc are currently the best gear in the game?
It makes me sad that people don't see their own hypocrisy in criticizing play style choices. My play style choice is clearly bad and wrong, even though gear is insignificant and neglected by the developers themselves. Yet just pointing out that gear chasing doesn't exists in CO got a few "don't criticize play style jerk" comments.
Strawman. I didn't say your play style choice is bad or wrong. I couldn't give a rat's behind about how you play the game. I merely pointed out a reality. The reality is that you don't need the best gear to excel. Where's the hypocrisy in that? Oh wait, there isn't.
And there you go again, insisting the gear is "insignificant", yet demand that the best end game gear in the game be more easily accessible without having to go through the grind and effort needed to be rewarded said best end game gear. Do you even realize how you contradict yourself?
Look, if you feel that the grind is not fun for you and you don't care about playing content to get the stuff but want the stuff anyhow, just be honest and admit it.
End game grind is different for everyone. For me, and people like me (those that are altoholics and love making costumes), costumes are the end game. For those that like to get the best gear and min/max, well, gear is the end game. To say one is not end game, is asinine. And, I've already pointed out the downfalls of a quick gearing system. Though, the same consequences can happen with to much grind. Right now, CO, feels about right to me. If one feels like it, they can get gear at a decent rate, it doesn't take months (like some people claim, this claim, is false). Now, while the part about how long it takes to gear up is just my opinion, the part about grind is end game, is not opinion.
My opinion is that they need to add a bunch of pretty frilly girly costume pieces to the GCR vendor, because that is my endgame o3o
It's important to lock that behind grimdark content. We should also have some grimdark costume parts behind super-fluffy content (which is something we're sort of lacking, even the Christmas stuff doesn't manage to be so sweet it makes your teeth hurt).
No one cares about your individual playstyle choice. Not the players and not the devs. What they care about are groups of players.
1. There are players who care about having max gear, for whom the devs would obviously want it to take effort to acquire. Assuming you can read and count, you'll note that number of players is not 0.
2. There are players who don't care about having max gear, for whom the devs work on other things like making new costumes. Maybe this group of players is larger. Maybe they even represent a larger % of income for CO than the group that cares about gear.
Maybe that first group, even though it obviously exists per the replies you continue to somehow miss, is so small that it doesn't matter.
I didn't run a scientific survey to figure it out. I don't have the stats to show what % of players have gotten max gear in what amount of time or the amount of revenue their continued engagement has earned CO relative to those who have not bothered.
I don't know enough for me to make blanket statements regarding max gear being irrelevant to players or the devs. And neither do you. Pretending that you know something which you obviously don't is making you sound stupid.
"Any RPG that I've played, MMO or not, don't quickly give you the best gear available right off the bat, or even in a few days like what you think is acceptable game design."
MMO or not, eh? Cheat codes have been available by developers in their own games for decades. Who hasn't at least heard of the Konami code? PC games are even more accepting with full consoles easily accessible for players to use as they see fit. Seems like plenty of developers think letting players get gear instantly is acceptable game design. Even multiplayer games can have a Steam workshop for players to do things like get all the gear now. Some developers sell DLC to let players get all the gear now.
"Devs obviously regard gear as something significant in the game. Over the years we've already gotten multiple tiers of high end gear that goes beyond the Heroics. The devs obviously treat gear grind as part of game mechanics and a reason to get players to keep playing."
Uh, no, they don't. You BUY Legion gear with money. Many people BUY Merc or other starter 40 gear. Leveling gear? You can buy that too. Green gear at all levels? Pick up yours in a lockbox today! Rank up your "crafting" skill? Get skill boosts in lock boxes! Vigilante? So totally buy-able. Rank 5 mods? Flooded the game thanks to lock boxes. Rank 9 mods? Upgrades in the cash shop. People didn't start completely ignoring Heroic gear until it became grindy to get. Players have shown they don't actually want gear grind with their actions. And developers have accommodated this by making it easier than ever to buy almost all gear with real money.
Does gear grind bring all the players back to the yard or is it event spam, which is overwhelmingly costume bits? Heroics are kind of the poster child on what people think of gear grind.
"Um, no contradiction here. Read what I've said again."
I did. Gear grind is supposed to take effort VS difference from high / low is insignificant. Sounds like up playing then down playing how important max gear is.
"I didn't say your play style choice is bad or wrong. I couldn't give a rat's behind about how you play the game. I merely pointed out a reality. The reality is that you don't need the best gear to excel. Where's the hypocrisy in that? Oh wait, there isn't."
I think this very paragraph points it out. You are telling me I should be satisfied with what you think is appropriate gear for my characters and what you think is appropriate levels of power for my characters. It completely disregards what I stated was fun for me in favor of what you think should be good enough for me.
"And there you go again, insisting the gear is "insignificant", yet demand that the best end game gear in the game be more easily accessible without having to go through the grind and effort needed to be rewarded said best end game gear. Do you even realize how you contradict yourself?"
How significant gear is in the game and wanting to acquire it with other content and/or faster are not opposites on a scale. If I want to have the most OP toon possible, it doesn't matter if gear is significant or not but if the gear exists. Grind and effort are also not the same thing. I already alluded to difficulty and end game content earlier. Grind also has nothing to do with how significant gear is. Plus some other reading comprehension failure, but this is too long already.
"Look, if you feel that the grind is not fun for you and you don't care about playing content to get the stuff but want the stuff anyhow, just be honest and admit it."
It's not a secret I don't like the grind that has been added to the game. There is a huge difference between not wanting to play the game at all and not wanting so much grindy BS or wanting more option. How does asking for more types of content and adding more stuff to get equal not caring about playing content to get stuff? Anyone can look at my post history to see what I think and it certainly isn't what rubbish you're peddling.
"No one cares about your individual playstyle choice. Not the players and not the devs. What they care about are groups of players."
Using a hypothetical play style that I attribute to me doesn't mean there isn't a group of players. Look who's thread we're in. Certainly not mine. It's not like there haven't been other threads asking for some of the same stuff in this topic. Not sure why you felt the need to type that. I suspect gamblers and cosmic lovers are not the only players, but they are the ones that devs focus on. And it's hard to say other groups of players wouldn't want other types of end game content when there really aren't any other options.
"I don't know enough for me to make blanket statements regarding max gear being irrelevant to players or the devs."
My claim was that gear in general is not terribly important to players or devs based on their actions / words. I also point out the conflict between how GCR gear is treated VS what players say about getting / having it. You make statements about the importance of gear in general with every post you make.
"Any RPG that I've played, MMO or not, don't quickly give you the best gear available right off the bat, or even in a few days like what you think is acceptable game design."
Strange.. Back when i played WoW on Nostalrius, in one day i farmed UBRS and looted both swords from Rend Blackhand and the Eye of Rend in 1 day.. I didn't have any problems with getting all that loot in 1 day, because i put my mind to it. And it didnt' stop me from playing more after that, infact i continued to run UBRS...
I farmed Karazan for a year trying to get Hellscreams Axe, never got it. You really think i would've just quit playing the game after i got it ?.. Hell no.
HOWEVER.. the risk is greater of quitting a game because of abyssmal droprates, rather then actually getting what i'm farming for.
It's the same reason i quit playing Warframe.. i grinded for Frost Prime during the event on almost every hour i was awake, never picked up a single piece.. while my friend looted 4 complete sets and he wasn't farming nearly as much as i were...
Having dungeons dropping loot doesn't make players quit - it's quiet the opposite.
MMO or not, eh? Cheat codes have been available by developers in their own games for decades. Who hasn't at least heard of the Konami code? PC games are even more accepting with full consoles easily accessible for players to use as they see fit. Seems like plenty of developers think letting players get gear instantly is acceptable game design. Even multiplayer games can have a Steam workshop for players to do things like get all the gear now. Some developers sell DLC to let players get all the gear now.
Who's talking about cheat codes? Sure, if the game allows you to enter a code to become uber and unkilllable, the option is there. That's clearly not what I was talking about when I was referring to "acceptable game design". A cheat code overrides what the developer has presented the game to be conventionally played. Player-made mods are purely third party and are never within the design control of the game developer.
And if you bring this up to somehow suggest that the equivalent to cheat codes and mods be integrated into MMORPGs so that newbie players get the most powerful gear right off the bat, just because other games do it, I got news for you; nobody in their right mind is that out of touch from reality.
Uh, no, they don't. You BUY Legion gear with money. Many people BUY Merc or other starter 40 gear. Leveling gear? You can buy that too. Green gear at all levels? Pick up yours in a lockbox today! Rank up your "crafting" skill? Get skill boosts in lock boxes! Vigilante? So totally buy-able. Rank 5 mods? Flooded the game thanks to lock boxes. Rank 9 mods? Upgrades in the cash shop. People didn't start completely ignoring Heroic gear until it became grindy to get. Players have shown they don't actually want gear grind with their actions. And developers have accommodated this by making it easier than ever to buy almost all gear with real money.
Being able to buy all those gear are paid-for options, emphasis on the word "options", as in completely voluntary and avoidable. Obviously they don't completely cancel out any existing gear grind, because gear not obtained with money are still in the game, and they're very attainable. Even the very best gear at current can't be obtained with money.
I did. Gear grind is supposed to take effort VS difference from high / low is insignificant. Sounds like up playing then down playing how important max gear is.
The only person I see "playing then downplaying" the significance of gear grind is you.
I think this very paragraph points it out. You are telling me I should be satisfied with what you think is appropriate gear for my characters and what you think is appropriate levels of power for my characters. It completely disregards what I stated was fun for me in favor of what you think should be good enough for me.
Let me clarify since you still don't get it.
What you regard as fun, asserting your entitlement to the best gear in the game with putting near to no effort of gameplay in obtaining them, while by the same token calling gear "insignificant", with me pointing out such, does not equal me telling you how to play the game. It's me telling you that's a ridiculous expectation that ignores design conventions that are common in MMORPGs, and how it's ridiculous to downplay the importance of such design conventions just because you don't like the reality of things and want stuff "quick and easy" or however you damn well please.
How significant gear is in the game and wanting to acquire it with other content and/or faster are not opposites on a scale. If I want to have the most OP toon possible, it doesn't matter if gear is significant or not but if the gear exists. Grind and effort are also not the same thing. I already alluded to difficulty and end game content earlier. Grind also has nothing to do with how significant gear is. Plus some other reading comprehension failure, but this is too long already.
I'm starting to suspect that you're using an entirely different games, with entirely different design conventions from that of MMORPGs, as examples to make an argument about how things "should be".
Grind has everything to do with how significant gear is in MMORPGs. Once again carrot-and-stick. Gear is carrot-and-stick. Just because you get the best gear from mods or cheats in other games and somehow want to apply that standard to MMORPGs doesn't cancel out that fact.
The main problem with the gear in CO, is that the amount of TIME required to get the items, is not reflected in the amount of upgrade it offers for the character wearing it. So if the gear isn't that much of a differense, why should it be so hard to get ?.
My opinion is that they need to add a bunch of pretty frilly girly costume pieces to the GCR vendor, because that is my endgame o3o
It's important to lock that behind grimdark content. We should also have some grimdark costume parts behind super-fluffy content (which is something we're sort of lacking, even the Christmas stuff doesn't manage to be so sweet it makes your teeth hurt).
So if the gear isn't that much of a differense, why should it be so hard to get ?.
It isn't hard to get. It also doesn't take a long time to get. See some people make the mistake of saying "From the day I started trying to get the gear it took X days/weeks/months". However, that's not correct because you're including all the time you spent not playing the game. The amount of in-game time that it takes to get the gear is completely reasonable. The pace at which you satisfy that time requirement is up to you and your life. Just because you don't have much time to play doesn't mean the gear takes more game play time to acquire, and game play time is the actual measure of how long it takes to get it.
As for why the gear should take more than a short time to acquire, it's to give players something to chase so they don't end up saying "there's nothing to do" so soon. The fact that the game needs something like this has been proven because the previous extremely short time to gear out led to exactly that, "there's nothing to do".
The fact that the gear isn't a massive difference and especially the fact that it isn't required for anything are extremely good for the "I only really care about costumes" crowd, because it means they can start farming those costumes without having to get that gear first - they can just grab some blue stuff off the exchange and be ready to go. It's also good for the game in general since with our population I doubt we can really support multiple tiers of content. Well... whatever the top tier is would be fine, since that'd be what the top players would be doing, but everything below that would potentially be a mess.
Hiding lack of endcontent behind long geargrind based on currecy aquisition is just wrong on all fronts and a poor excuse. Right now i'm farming Cosmics on 3-4 characters, it's taken me a month doing that just to get enough SCR/GCR to be able to buy Justice gear for ONE character. But i'm still unable to because of Rampages that simply won't drop their currency... No one runs SC, hardly anyone runs LI.. How are you suppose to get Justice when Rampages aren't active !?.
Strange.. Back when i played WoW on Nostalrius, in one day i farmed UBRS and looted both swords from Rend Blackhand and the Eye of Rend in 1 day.. I didn't have any problems with getting all that loot in 1 day, because i put my mind to it. And it didnt' stop me from playing more after that, infact i continued to run UBRS...
I farmed Karazan for a year trying to get Hellscreams Axe, never got it. You really think i would've just quit playing the game after i got it ?.. Hell no.
HOWEVER.. the risk is greater of quitting a game because of abyssmal droprates, rather then actually getting what i'm farming for.
It's the same reason i quit playing Warframe.. i grinded for Frost Prime during the event on almost every hour i was awake, never picked up a single piece.. while my friend looted 4 complete sets and he wasn't farming nearly as much as i were...
Having dungeons dropping loot doesn't make players quit - it's quiet the opposite.
That is called luck. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, unlike CO, WoW has a lot going for it. And plus, in the case of CO, gear doesn't drop from bosses, instead, currency does. So, it is a different system. When the system is luck on gear drops from bosses, than, I don't mind or care if you get what you need quickly, cause, that is luck. But, in a system, that depends on currency is in place. It should take some time.
That is called luck. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, unlike CO, WoW has a lot going for it. And plus, in the case of CO, gear doesn't drop from bosses, instead, currency does.
Actually, certain gear does drop from certain bosses. Mostly blues, but things like Dark Speed or a Depleted Uranium Core are certainly gear.
Hiding lack of endcontent behind long geargrind based on currecy aquisition is just wrong on all fronts and a poor excuse. Right now i'm farming Cosmics on 3-4 characters, it's taken me a month doing that just to get enough SCR/GCR to be able to buy Justice gear for ONE character. But i'm still unable to because of Rampages that simply won't drop their currency... No one runs SC, hardly anyone runs LI.. How are you suppose to get Justice when Rampages aren't active !?.
"No one"? honestly the one that gets run least is actually F&I.
Hiding lack of endcontent behind long geargrind based on currecy aquisition is just wrong on all fronts and a poor excuse.
The alternative, given the reality of the situation, is nothing. It's not an excuse, it's the course of action that keeps the facts in mind. You may feel like it would be better otherwise, but years of evidence say otherwise.
Right now i'm farming Cosmics on 3-4 characters, it's taken me a month doing that just to get enough SCR/GCR to be able to buy Justice gear for ONE character. But i'm still unable to because of Rampages that simply won't drop their currency... No one runs SC, hardly anyone runs LI.. How are you suppose to get Justice when Rampages aren't active !?.
Get Distinguished instead, or start putting PQs together.
No one cares about your individual playstyle choice. Not the players and not the devs. What they care about are groups of players.
1. There are players who care about having max gear, for whom the devs would obviously want it to take effort to acquire. Assuming you can read and count, you'll note that number of players is not 0.
2. There are players who don't care about having max gear, for whom the devs work on other things like making new costumes. Maybe this group of players is larger. Maybe they even represent a larger % of income for CO than the group that cares about gear.
Maybe that first group, even though it obviously exists per the replies you continue to somehow miss, is so small that it doesn't matter.
I didn't run a scientific survey to figure it out. I don't have the stats to show what % of players have gotten max gear in what amount of time or the amount of revenue their continued engagement has earned CO relative to those who have not bothered.
I don't know enough for me to make blanket statements regarding max gear being irrelevant to players or the devs. And neither do you. Pretending that you know something which you obviously don't is making you sound stupid.
That is called luck. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, unlike CO, WoW has a lot going for it. And plus, in the case of CO, gear doesn't drop from bosses, instead, currency does.
Actually, certain gear does drop from certain bosses. Mostly blues, but things like Dark Speed or a Depleted Uranium Core are certainly gear.
I'll give you that on the dark speed and DPUC, but, that is abotu it. Still called luck though.
Comments
Why should getting max gearing take a long time?
Because it is the max. I mean, you don't HAVE to make it take long, but if you aren't rewarded for time and effort to an equal degree then why have gear at all? You could remove it entirely since we'd all have it soon enough.
Really, it isn't a big deal. Mercenary, Heroic, Legion. These are end game gears. You can use stuff like bronze king or just normal green and blue unlocks and still do Adventure Packs or level 40 missions. You don't need better gear if you don't want to, you'll still be powerful. In fact, if max gear was easy to acquire, it would be worst because it would be a MUST. You would HAVE to have it because since everyone could easily get it, all content would have to be balanced around that baseline.
So don't stress. Long gear progression for MAX gear is fine. You don't need the Legendary stuff. The game isn't balanced around it. Just unlock gear at your own pace.
Because it is the max. I mean, it doesn't HAVE to take a long time, but there should always be something to chase out there. If it only took a little while to get max gear, things would be worst. You would HAVE to have it since content would all be balanced around a population of people with max gear.
It actually isn't a big deal. Mercenary, Heroic, Legion. These are higher tier end game gears. You can use stuff like bronze king or just normal green and blue unlocks and still do any content. If you don't like chasing MAX UBER LEGENDARY GEAR!1!1!! well then that is fine. You don't have to, it isn't needed. It really isn't. However, if you like min/maxing your character, there it is.
So don't stress. You don't need the Legendary stuff. The game isn't balanced around it.
That means another viable way to get high end gear, better than Heroic, without grinding through Cosmics.
Looks like an option is being given to the players.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Correction: This gives more options to the WHALES who open LOOTBOXES
are they going to cost around 250 Drifter Salvage each? hahaha
But they are Bound on Equip meaning they are tradable
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My characters
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
You can't enjoy what Cryptic doesn't give you. There are things the game does not support. Gear chasing is one of those things. Solo end game is another.
Making gear more grindy to acquire benefits the developers, not the players. If Cryptic really gave a toss about catering to people who like to chase gear, Legion would be available by playing the game instead of opening your wallet. The progression system to go from fresh 40 to GCR gear would actually exist. Gear that is interesting instead of stat sticks would have been added.
Because it is the max. I mean, it doesn't HAVE to take a long time, but there should always be something to chase out there. If it only took a little while to get max gear, things would be worst. You would HAVE to have it since content would all be balanced around a population of people with max gear.
Chase items are costume bits, not gear. How would things be worse if it didn't take long to get max gear? Why would the game ever need to be balanced around people with max gear? There are games that exist for you to be OP in and it doesn't automatically equal less fun.
Having something to do is more important than what gear you have on. We have an eight year old game that's never had a level cap increase and has almost zero end game unless you like to alt. The problems is there are very few options.
"So, giving us LESS content was the solution?"
Hard not to agree considering Hotspot SCR was taken away and Justice gear now has the same GCR requirements of other gear, which is an option taken away. We certainly don't see much stuff to do added anymore. It's mostly just updated old content and the rare Cosmic. Even worse, a lot of stuff to get is tied to events. If there isn't an event... well... I'm not the only one that barely logs in.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
- Gear is irrelevant. If this is true, why do you care how hard it is to get?
- Gear matters. If this is true, it's appropriate to require effort to get it.
Your attitude seems to be 'gear is unimportant, but I want max gear'. That doesn't make sense.Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
'
And the reason for why it would be worst is because yes, the game isn't designed for everything to be a breeze to play through. Content will be balanced around the "average" player and harder content around the upper tier of players. Some people already complain that new content is hard because it is balanced around "elite" players with amazing gear. It isn't, but if it was then you would HAVE to get that end game gear to participate. ESPECIALLY if it was easy to get, because that would be the new "average" that the content would be balanced around.
At the moment, level 40 unique gear is easy to get. Mercenary, Heroic, Legendary - you don't HAVE to have these. They are for maximizing your performance. So are we complaining that the highest rung on the ladder is too high to reach because they can't be bothered to use the rungs 3/4ths of the way up there? Yes! Exactly. So don't worry that there are 3 sets of gears in the game that take a long time to get?
This doesn't even try to answer the question you quoted. In fact, this scenario has absolutely nothing to do with my question and I have no idea why you quoted me and wrote this. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
Your attitude seems to be 'gear is unimportant, but I want max gear'. That doesn't make sense.
YOU don't make sense. Devs care so little about the gear you get while leveling that they gave people a way to purchase leveling gear and added green gear to lockboxes instead of updating the already exiting items. Plus, there isn't even a reason to bother with two of the sets that are stepping stones to GCR gear. Sounds a whole lot like something the developers have done and nothing to do with any attitude I may or may not have.
I also already have max gear on the only character I care about. No idea how I can want something I already have.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"[..] than maybe gear should just be removed from the game altogether...but, that would actually kill CO."
Gear has been effectively removed from the entire leveling process. People still make alts-a-plenty. More likely to hear complaints about more junky mods sucking up bag space or stupid green gear drops in reward boxes. Seems like the general attitude towards gear is that it is annoying. Except when it magically isn't.
Outside of removing something to do when there isn't enough things to do and some re-balancing needs, I think CO would be just fine without any gear.
"It can be both. Costumes and gear are both something players can chase for."
This can only be true IF the developers start supporting gear chasing. They have not done so. They are not going to do so. There was an opportunity to make Legion gear gained from gameplay. The developers chose to shove it into the Drifter store for your delicious dollars.
"[...] the game isn't designed for everything to be a breeze to play through"
I can spend one weekend getting a character from 1 to 40. Gearing up for end game is as easy as buying it all via the Q store / AH / gamble boxes. The next weekend I can do all of the Cosmics and TA and Warzone dailies. After that, it's just a matter of doing that same content over and over until I finally get all of the GCR / SCR I need to purchase something. Is that not breezy?
If you mean difficulty wise: If I can do all of the "end game" in a single weekend, how hard is it really?
"At the moment, level 40 unique gear is easy to get. Mercenary, Heroic, Legendary - you don't HAVE to have these. They are for maximizing your performance."
Legendary is not a gear type, it is a rarity type and thus cannot be unique which is also a rarity type. Did you mean Legion?
This game doesn't need to exist. Top that.
If I want max gear faster because I like to crush all the things with my super powered super hero is the way I like to have fun is wrong and bad? Or if I want max gear faster because it makes farming for globals easier than I am wrong for wanting to have fun this way? Seems like you're just saying that what I enjoy doing in the game is not the right way to enjoy CO.
Keep in mind gear used to be much faster to acquire and Heroics becoming far more grinder to get was bitched about quite a bit. The game becoming grinder did not improve it's popularity. Hell, people still throw out the occasional complaint about RNG making Justice gear take forever to get. Honestly am confused about people not liking other grind for gear but being totally fine with GCR gear grind.
"So are we complaining that the highest rung on the ladder is too high to reach because they can't be bothered to use the rungs 3/4ths of the way up there?"
I don't know what you're criticizing.
So don't worry that there are 3 sets of gears in the game that take a long time to get?
The whole point of this topic was allowing players a choice in how quickly they acquire GCR gear. Are you saying that I shouldn't talk about the time it takes to acquire gear in a post about how long it takes to acquire gear?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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My characters
Also, you can already "crush all the things" with heroic or merc gear. Heck, you can even do it with regular blues and purps, right up to rampage alerts. If we're talking about cosmics, heroic or merc is pretty sufficient at starter level, and the distinction between high end and lower end gear is irrelevant to how quickly you can farm for globals.
If the rationale of wanting all high end gear to be much more quickly accessible has to do with finding no fun factor in playing the game and grinding for the gear, mainly to override said grinding, then that seems to be an entirely different and personal issue altogether.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Likely I would still play, too. Many of us here in the forums would.
I am not so sure that is true of many other players, though. There are players that play until maxing out their toon, maybe maxing out a second one (level and gear), and then leave. Champs wants to maximize how long those players stay, because of the chance that they will spend money through the Z store or actually decide to sub.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Maybe read the post I was replying to that was making a "need" argument? Maybe you'll understand context then?
GCR gear has been around for YEARS with no new max gear taking it's place and no content made to have it. No one that wanted max gear doesn't already have it unless they haven't been playing long.
I don't know what other types of games you're playing at the moment that goes against such conventions, but a concept like that doesn't work for a MMORPG, especially a F2P one, because the carrot-and-stick has to exist at some level.
Carrot and stick exist in CO as COSMETICS not gear.
For the rest of your claims, how do you know an MMO that does something different wouldn't work? Are there even examples of any well funded, well made MMO that doesn't use the cookie cutter templates existing? You like to say how things are supposed to be with no way of knowing if other options could be better or even asking "why should it be this way". Positive change doesn't happen when everyone gives up and accepts things the way they are because creating something new is too hard.
CO devs have never had any real f---s to give about gear. Wouldn't that mean this games has been working for eight years without the gear grind? Isn't this very game counter to your claims of gear grind being required for success?
"High end gear for any MMO is supposed to take a whole lot of effort and time to get, because they serve the purpose of gearing up players who want to take their performance to their limits when doing difficult end game content."
[...]
"If we're talking about cosmics, heroic or merc is pretty sufficient at starter level, and the distinction between high end and lower end gear is irrelevant to how quickly you can farm for globals."
Are you kidding with this? You are contradicting your own claims on how important gear grind is and then pointing out the best gear in the game isn't even needed for the end game content and thus irrelevant.
"Also, you can already "crush all the things" with heroic or merc gear. Heck, you can even do it with regular blues and purps, right up to rampage alerts [...]"
It makes me sad that people don't see their own hypocrisy in criticizing play style choices. My play style choice is clearly bad and wrong, even though gear is insignificant and neglected by the developers themselves. Yet just pointing out that gear chasing doesn't exists in CO got a few "don't criticize play style jerk" comments.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
"Players in MMO want gear" isn't exactly a new concept, ya know?
And yeah, CO went many years letting you get your endgame gear in a matter of hours, and had issues because of it with no benefits to match. There's no need for a second experiment to see if it could work - the experiment was already run, and the conclusion was that it didn't work. That's why they changed that.
Hand in hand with the gear grind changes came the fact that now you don't have to spend months/years grinding npcs with a 0.001% drop chance to get your costumes, you can get those from a token vendor too and you'll know how close to getting them you are. The current system is a complete overall improvement over the old system in terms of both gear and cosmetics. Of course, if you liked the old way of getting cosmetics it's still there. Since it's been proven that Heroic gear is equal to blue stuff you can buy off the exchange, that old method is effectively still there as well.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And there you go again, insisting the gear is "insignificant", yet demand that the best end game gear in the game be more easily accessible without having to go through the grind and effort needed to be rewarded said best end game gear. Do you even realize how you contradict yourself?
Look, if you feel that the grind is not fun for you and you don't care about playing content to get the stuff but want the stuff anyhow, just be honest and admit it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
1. There are players who care about having max gear, for whom the devs would obviously want it to take effort to acquire. Assuming you can read and count, you'll note that number of players is not 0.
2. There are players who don't care about having max gear, for whom the devs work on other things like making new costumes. Maybe this group of players is larger. Maybe they even represent a larger % of income for CO than the group that cares about gear.
Maybe that first group, even though it obviously exists per the replies you continue to somehow miss, is so small that it doesn't matter.
I didn't run a scientific survey to figure it out. I don't have the stats to show what % of players have gotten max gear in what amount of time or the amount of revenue their continued engagement has earned CO relative to those who have not bothered.
I don't know enough for me to make blanket statements regarding max gear being irrelevant to players or the devs. And neither do you. Pretending that you know something which you obviously don't is making you sound stupid.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
MMO or not, eh? Cheat codes have been available by developers in their own games for decades. Who hasn't at least heard of the Konami code? PC games are even more accepting with full consoles easily accessible for players to use as they see fit. Seems like plenty of developers think letting players get gear instantly is acceptable game design. Even multiplayer games can have a Steam workshop for players to do things like get all the gear now. Some developers sell DLC to let players get all the gear now.
"Devs obviously regard gear as something significant in the game. Over the years we've already gotten multiple tiers of high end gear that goes beyond the Heroics. The devs obviously treat gear grind as part of game mechanics and a reason to get players to keep playing."
Uh, no, they don't. You BUY Legion gear with money. Many people BUY Merc or other starter 40 gear. Leveling gear? You can buy that too. Green gear at all levels? Pick up yours in a lockbox today! Rank up your "crafting" skill? Get skill boosts in lock boxes! Vigilante? So totally buy-able. Rank 5 mods? Flooded the game thanks to lock boxes. Rank 9 mods? Upgrades in the cash shop. People didn't start completely ignoring Heroic gear until it became grindy to get. Players have shown they don't actually want gear grind with their actions. And developers have accommodated this by making it easier than ever to buy almost all gear with real money.
Does gear grind bring all the players back to the yard or is it event spam, which is overwhelmingly costume bits? Heroics are kind of the poster child on what people think of gear grind.
"Um, no contradiction here. Read what I've said again."
I did. Gear grind is supposed to take effort VS difference from high / low is insignificant. Sounds like up playing then down playing how important max gear is.
"I didn't say your play style choice is bad or wrong. I couldn't give a rat's behind about how you play the game. I merely pointed out a reality. The reality is that you don't need the best gear to excel. Where's the hypocrisy in that? Oh wait, there isn't."
I think this very paragraph points it out. You are telling me I should be satisfied with what you think is appropriate gear for my characters and what you think is appropriate levels of power for my characters. It completely disregards what I stated was fun for me in favor of what you think should be good enough for me.
"And there you go again, insisting the gear is "insignificant", yet demand that the best end game gear in the game be more easily accessible without having to go through the grind and effort needed to be rewarded said best end game gear. Do you even realize how you contradict yourself?"
How significant gear is in the game and wanting to acquire it with other content and/or faster are not opposites on a scale. If I want to have the most OP toon possible, it doesn't matter if gear is significant or not but if the gear exists. Grind and effort are also not the same thing. I already alluded to difficulty and end game content earlier. Grind also has nothing to do with how significant gear is. Plus some other reading comprehension failure, but this is too long already.
"Look, if you feel that the grind is not fun for you and you don't care about playing content to get the stuff but want the stuff anyhow, just be honest and admit it."
It's not a secret I don't like the grind that has been added to the game. There is a huge difference between not wanting to play the game at all and not wanting so much grindy BS or wanting more option. How does asking for more types of content and adding more stuff to get equal not caring about playing content to get stuff? Anyone can look at my post history to see what I think and it certainly isn't what rubbish you're peddling.
"No one cares about your individual playstyle choice. Not the players and not the devs. What they care about are groups of players."
Using a hypothetical play style that I attribute to me doesn't mean there isn't a group of players. Look who's thread we're in. Certainly not mine. It's not like there haven't been other threads asking for some of the same stuff in this topic. Not sure why you felt the need to type that. I suspect gamblers and cosmic lovers are not the only players, but they are the ones that devs focus on. And it's hard to say other groups of players wouldn't want other types of end game content when there really aren't any other options.
"I don't know enough for me to make blanket statements regarding max gear being irrelevant to players or the devs."
My claim was that gear in general is not terribly important to players or devs based on their actions / words. I also point out the conflict between how GCR gear is treated VS what players say about getting / having it. You make statements about the importance of gear in general with every post you make.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
from Rend Blackhand and the Eye of Rend in 1 day.. I didn't have any problems with getting all
that loot in 1 day, because i put my mind to it. And it didnt' stop me from playing more after that,
infact i continued to run UBRS...
I farmed Karazan for a year trying to get Hellscreams Axe, never got it. You really think i would've
just quit playing the game after i got it ?.. Hell no.
HOWEVER.. the risk is greater of quitting a game because of abyssmal droprates,
rather then actually getting what i'm farming for.
It's the same reason i quit playing Warframe.. i grinded for Frost Prime during the event
on almost every hour i was awake, never picked up a single piece.. while my friend looted
4 complete sets and he wasn't farming nearly as much as i were...
Having dungeons dropping loot doesn't make players quit - it's quiet the opposite.
And if you bring this up to somehow suggest that the equivalent to cheat codes and mods be integrated into MMORPGs so that newbie players get the most powerful gear right off the bat, just because other games do it, I got news for you; nobody in their right mind is that out of touch from reality. Being able to buy all those gear are paid-for options, emphasis on the word "options", as in completely voluntary and avoidable. Obviously they don't completely cancel out any existing gear grind, because gear not obtained with money are still in the game, and they're very attainable. Even the very best gear at current can't be obtained with money. The only person I see "playing then downplaying" the significance of gear grind is you. Let me clarify since you still don't get it.
What you regard as fun, asserting your entitlement to the best gear in the game with putting near to no effort of gameplay in obtaining them, while by the same token calling gear "insignificant", with me pointing out such, does not equal me telling you how to play the game. It's me telling you that's a ridiculous expectation that ignores design conventions that are common in MMORPGs, and how it's ridiculous to downplay the importance of such design conventions just because you don't like the reality of things and want stuff "quick and easy" or however you damn well please. I'm starting to suspect that you're using an entirely different games, with entirely different design conventions from that of MMORPGs, as examples to make an argument about how things "should be".
Grind has everything to do with how significant gear is in MMORPGs. Once again carrot-and-stick. Gear is carrot-and-stick. Just because you get the best gear from mods or cheats in other games and somehow want to apply that standard to MMORPGs doesn't cancel out that fact.
So if the gear isn't that much of a differense, why should it be so hard to get ?.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
As for why the gear should take more than a short time to acquire, it's to give players something to chase so they don't end up saying "there's nothing to do" so soon. The fact that the game needs something like this has been proven because the previous extremely short time to gear out led to exactly that, "there's nothing to do".
The fact that the gear isn't a massive difference and especially the fact that it isn't required for anything are extremely good for the "I only really care about costumes" crowd, because it means they can start farming those costumes without having to get that gear first - they can just grab some blue stuff off the exchange and be ready to go. It's also good for the game in general since with our population I doubt we can really support multiple tiers of content. Well... whatever the top tier is would be fine, since that'd be what the top players would be doing, but everything below that would potentially be a mess.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Right now i'm farming Cosmics on 3-4 characters, it's taken me a month doing that just to get enough SCR/GCR to be able to buy Justice gear for ONE character. But i'm still unable to because of Rampages that simply won't drop their currency... No one runs SC, hardly anyone runs LI.. How are you suppose to get Justice when Rampages aren't active !?.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
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Get Distinguished instead, or start putting PQs together.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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