I don't see the point of this event, it's like Cryptic designed for it to be for people who are level 40. I think they threw in a lot of biased efforts into the programming. I keep trying to fight the Nightmare characters at level 25 with the Tempest Archtype.....I keep dying, when doing the quests needed.
Am I gto sit here to think tha Cryptic thinks everyone likes to into battle with anyone else in general? It's not like that on a daily basis. The fact is, more people are in the market for games where they can do things alone in games then having to be dependent on others.
But seeing the direction Cryptic is going, makes me miss Gazillion Entertainment's Marvel Heroes Omega more and more because Cryptic can't design a game that has that Marvel Heroes Omega feel to it. Don't worry, the company of Daybreak did a terrible job with DCUO. For once I li0ke to see Perfect World design a game with that Marvel Heroes Omega feel to it....and without all the biased programmiung.
This year, I've largely avoided this event. It's great for teaming and if you want to RP through it or something, but outside of that...I personally find it a pain in the arse.
Some of my characters can solo mobs in this event with little issue, but I generally don't build too tanky...which seems to be to my detriment when it comes to trying to solo things that are higher level...which is a shame, but I also understand to a degree. (QWZ and this event is great if you are a melee tank with decent healing or someone who can obliterate things really fast...anything in between is a little sketchy at times)
I'd like to say, I'd feel comfortable running this event more if it was more soloable, but I know that's about as likely to happen as all of Gravitar's powers (at that strength) being made available to players.
Equally though...the event is very much aptly named. It is a pain in the arse and is annoying AF...because it is a Nightmare Invasion.
If it was more palatable to everyone those who don't particularly like it (myself included) there may be concerns that it hasn't hit the mark.
Side note: If I was able to team up more, I think I'd enjoy the event A LOT more...but due to my own schedule...that isn't too possible all the time. Also sometimes...it's empowering to run stuff yourself.
Remember how after Wonder Man got exposed to the negaverse or whatever he started losing his super strength anytime he felt scared? There's some kinda message there I guess u3u
> @wisedoom said: keep trying to fight the Nightmare characters at level 25 with the Tempest Archtype.....I keep dying, when doing the quests needed.
Glass cannon AT with no real defense or healing dies against things that don't immediately go splat. Sounds as intended, so I'm chalking this one up to salt.
Also I love how you geeks decided to name an event after me. Really shows the lo- WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT FOR ME?!
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
The Nightmare Invasion is designed for high level teams, so they have something to do while remaining in Millennium City and the low level newbs could get a gander at the high level hijinx. That was the whole point, just like the...uh...quest that starts in City Center with the burning people: something to do while you loiter in MC.
When it was produced about 80% of the players loitering in MC were level 40. The expectation was that they would do something besides loiter.
Maybe every group of baddies should have had a team up button activator area near them.
Also, to get those boxes of weapons poes cronies left lying around, you can just zip-zap teleport to another zone and get the boxes there that aren't being lorded over by greater lesser evil.
Nightmare Invasion was created before the Warzone mob buff. Many people remember that and are now complaining it makes this daily blow to the point of opting out. Seems kind of stupid to make content that no one wants to do when the devs could adjust the damn mobs to make this daily less crap to run. Very few gives a toss about the Warzone. Why would anyone think inflicting Warzone +5 mob groups onto MC would be a good idea?
Curious: since many people have zero interest in this daily and the portal exist, does that mean mobs will endlessly pop out making it more difficult for people that do try the daily?
Curious: since many people have zero interest in this daily and the portal exist, does that mean mobs will endlessly pop out making it more difficult for people that do try the daily?
Well, given that yesterday I saw a low-level toon making a desperate run to Kodiak so he could defeat the Nightmare creature pursuing her, I'm starting to think it's going to make life more difficult for everyone in MC until they go away again.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The mobs that are supposed to give a sense of "oh s*** we need to stop this" are killing people and forcing a team up to clear.
I fail to see the issue in this. Would every single portal giving rewards like at Bloodmoon fix the grumbling and groaning or are ya'll just upset you can't steamroll it?
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
Curious: since many people have zero interest in this daily and the portal exist, does that mean mobs will endlessly pop out making it more difficult for people that do try the daily?
One of the things I liked about this event in testing was the way the NI mobs interacted with the NPC and its still the case. There's a rooftop behind City Hall with a Nightmare Portal on it. It also has three members of the New Purple Gang, who respawn every 60 seconds and who are then promptly despatched by the Nightmare Acolytes or whatever they are called. It's quite Sisyphean.
...it doesn't help that they're also in the area of the Steel Crusade mission. So sometimes they burst into flames and scream and die. It's Like CO's little corner of hell.
Very few gives a toss about the Warzone. Why would anyone think inflicting Warzone +5 mob groups onto MC would be a good idea?
The NI mobs are worse than the Q-Zone. Lots worse.
Are you sure it's not just due to their sheer numbers? I find that the individual mobs seem weaker than their QWZ counterparts, even when spawned by a level 40. It's the obnoxious combination of massive chain-knockbacks and stuns that rain down upon players that makes them seem tougher as a whole.
So far all I've seen is useless complaining about how it's too hard from people who can't seem to grasp the idea of not being able to solo everything.
So again I ask, what is the ACTUAL issue?
Given the number of people not enjoying it, and considering their reasons are all pretty valid, I'd say it's anything but "useless complaining." It's a poorly tuned, poorly-designed, intrusive, and generally irritating event.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Are you sure it's not just due to their sheer numbers? I find that the individual mobs seem weaker than their QWZ counterparts, even when spawned by a level 40. It's the obnoxious combination of massive chain-knockbacks and stuns that rain down upon players that makes them seem tougher as a whole.
As individuals they are the same as the Q zone but they spawn in bigger, nastier groups. There is 1 x Nightmare Demolisher, 4 x Unstable Brutes, 3 x Qlipthotic Acolytes and a couple of Regal Fiends at each portal - that's around double the lineup for any QWZ individual mission. And yes, the stuns, pulls, knocks and lock-outs (especially the lockouts) are the problem.
The number of people who are complaining are like.. 8 people on a forum. The reasons are again boiling down to not being able to solo OR the mobs being within a low level area to which I simply say to change to another character if it's that bad.
Seriously, the first few replies are "yo this is a team event" followed by the walls of moaning about team content complete with "F the Trinity system!" and Mr. Altaholism himself on character who knows what complaining about low level areas.
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
The number of people who are complaining are like.. 8 people on a forum. The reasons are again boiling down to not being able to solo OR the mobs being within a low level area to which I simply say to change to another character if it's that bad.
Seriously, the first few replies are "yo this is a team event" followed by the walls of moaning about team content complete with "F the Trinity system!" and Mr. Altaholism himself on character who knows what complaining about low level areas.
Whilst you have probably summarized the complaints in this thread well, you have not offered a 'solution' to this.
Instead you've decided to come across as a d*ck on the forums regarding this issue. That isn't helpful.
If you cannot understand or cannot try to understand someone's point of view...just leave it alone.
You "clearly" have no issue with this event, so please, go ahead and enjoy it.
Despite complaining about it, I'm sure some here (myself for example) do enjoy aspects of it.
I'm failing to see ACTUAL criticism because no one is going into specifics aside from > @magpieuk2014 said: > Are you sure it's not just due to their sheer numbers? I find that the individual mobs seem weaker than their QWZ counterparts, even when spawned by a level 40. It's the obnoxious combination of massive chain-knockbacks and stuns that rain down upon players that makes them seem tougher as a whole. > > As individuals they are the same as the Q zone but they spawn in bigger, nastier groups. There is 1 x Nightmare Demolisher, 4 x Unstable Brutes, 3 x Qlipthotic Acolytes and a couple of Regal Fiends at each portal - that's around double the lineup for any QWZ individual mission. And yes, the stuns, pulls, knocks and lock-outs (especially the lockouts) are the problem.
Is the damage too high? Is the DR and health too high? Is the overall respawn rate from the portal at a point that its sanity breaking? The blanket statements of how it's badly designed aren't doing anything so I can actually offer advice or expand on how it can be fixed.
Just off the mob comp the only real ones of issue are the brutes and the acolytes simply due to how both have mechanics which can slow the fight to a crawl. Brutes building resistance inherently has made killing them on my Glacier a huge chore and the Acolytes having that bloody shield that puts Inner Circle Members' to shame both make me want to run my head into a wall.
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
There is no standard rule for missions that actually do require a team and missions that say they require a team but can easily be done solo. It means nothing to have group requirements because the devs couldn't be bothered to either update older content to newer standards or not have power creep exploding out of control with vastly different difficulty levels on similar content with the same difficulty setting.
By the time people figure out that "oh that requirement was real" they've already been slaughtered and disappointed. The game teaches people that the group requirement is BS... until it's suddenly not.
I do agree that having these missions in low-level zones is a really odd choice. Plus, everyone already hangs out in MC, why not put them in other zones, to draw people to those zones?
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SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
The number of people who are complaining are like.. 8 people on a forum. The reasons are again boiling down to not being able to solo OR the mobs being within a low level area to which I simply say to change to another character if it's that bad.
1) Just like with any sample population vs the whole, the ratio of a small slice of a given population's opinions can still give an approximate representation of the total population's views. How many players do you think dislike this event, but remain silent about it because they don't visit the forums?
2) I can easily solo the portal packs and I generally don't bother questing to level my alts, so neither of those apply to me. Yet, I still dislike this event because I know most people don't build characters with the specific goal of being able to solo poorly-tuned content, nor do I expect them to. I also understand the new player experience, and that having to avoid event-spawned murder machine packs as a woefully-unprepared newbie is lame.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Just off the mob comp the only real ones of issue are the brutes and the acolytes simply due to how both have mechanics which can slow the fight to a crawl. Brutes building resistance inherently has made killing them on my Glacier a huge chore and the Acolytes having that bloody shield that puts Inner Circle Members' to shame both make me want to run my head into a wall.
take out the acolytes before brutes (if you can!) seriously.
> @aesica said: > lordnightmare lordnightmare#9851 > > wrote: » > > The number of people who are complaining are like.. 8 people on a forum. The reasons are again boiling down to not being able to solo OR the mobs being within a low level area to which I simply say to change to another character if it's that bad. > > > > 1) Just like with any sample population vs the whole, the ratio of a small slice of a given population's opinions can still give an approximate representation of the total population's views. How many players do you think dislike this event, but remain silent about it because they don't visit the forums? > > 2) I can easily solo the portal packs and I generally don't bother questing to level my alts, so neither of those apply to me. Yet, I still dislike this event because I know most people don't build characters with the specific goal of being able to solo poorly-tuned content, nor do I expect them to. I also understand the new player experience, and that having to avoid event-spawned murder machine packs as a woefully-unprepared newbie is lame.
It's literally only here that I see complaints, though. Zone, Trade, and the various other channels I have are either people coordinating for the event or just the usual talk in those channels. So again, it seems to be relegated to only a few people on a message board.
"Well most people don't build to solo poorly-tuned content". Well good because as we've been over many times NO ONE IS SUPPOSED TO SOLO THESE EVENTS. If you're able to then good job, you broke the system. Otherwise it's really not that much of an inconvenience to find a group of people and go do the dailies and chicken fight. It's what us AT players did for a while before On Alert.
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
I'm failing to see ACTUAL criticism because no one is going into specifics ...
Is the damage too high? Is the DR and health too high? Is the overall respawn rate from the portal at a point that its sanity breaking? The blanket statements of how it's badly designed aren't doing anything so I can actually offer advice or expand on how it can be fixed.
There's probably not a good "fix" for people just wanting to level their characters through the story missions if these mobs are in the way. For a lot of people "switch characters" is not a good solution. "Roll a tank" is not a good solution. "Pick this power and that power and that power" is not a good solution. Why? Because players wanna play the character they're playing, that's why they clicked on them when they logged in. Some players may not even have a higher level character to switch to, or have room for a tank character.
It should be easy to avoid the mobs if you're not trying to do the event, so it's on Cryptic to give the event a look to see what can be changed, not on the players to offer solutions. While there's nothing wrong with the latter, the players aren't just "uselessly complaining". They're making a problem known that should be addressed. It's not about them not being able to or wanting to solo everything, it's about them wanting to do the story missions without interference from these mobs. A lot of people are saying "They're for a GROUP MISSION, didn't you read that part?" Well that'd be fine if the players were trying to do the missions solo, but a lot of them are trying to avoid the mobs and not do the missions. There's plenty of places to put the mobs that won't be in anyone's way, and that's probably the best fix for this.
Most other events have mobs set up around the map in similar fashion, but they're just not this hard so people tend not to complain about them. This event is an outlier in that the mobs are super tough for most players, even well-geared cosmics-fighters. Throwing those next to areas where people are gonna have trouble running missions and turning them in is a design flaw.
It's literally only here that I see complaints, though. Zone, Trade, and the various other channels I have are either people coordinating for the event or just the usual talk in those channels. So again, it seems to be relegated to only a few people on a message board.
People don't really use in-game chat channels for negative comments. They're not a healthy environment. Forums are better because (generally) they're more considered and because the people who post on them are a) more accepting of the fact that not everyone likes everything in the game and b) less likely to troll for the public lolz.
Is the damage too high? Is the DR and health too high? Is the overall respawn rate from the portal at a point that its sanity breaking? The blanket statements of how it's badly designed aren't doing anything so I can actually offer advice or expand on how it can be fixed.
Sorry that you're late to the party, but it was all laid out when the event was introduced. The mobs are all familiar from the Q-zone and I have characters capable of beating groups of QWZ Demolishers, Elder Worms, or whatever, and am aware of the need to attack specific types of enemy to knock out auras, or shields, etc. No problem with that.
The problem with these mobs is that they tend to unload everything on the first target that they see. And that means loads - really, loads of knocks, pull-tos, stuns and lockouts. This is OK as a design idea if you have a trinity based team of heroes and the tank - who is set up to resist all this nonsense - does what tanks do and aggros the enemies, turtles up and does only enough offensive action to keep the enemy's attention. Then the damage based characters can eliminate the important enemies and take down the portal. It works a treat.
But MC is an open world zone and people aren't forming small trinity mission teams. They're doing other things, nosing around between alerts, trying to complete dailies solo without being tied down to three other people's schedules, and of course there are all the other players who aren't playing the event to be reckoned with.
So really each of the NI daily missions should have been structured a bit differently with two ways of completing them. For each daily you have to get a certain number of points, and there are different portal types worth different numbers of points. Ones defended by Q-zone type teams = 1 point, those defended by larger teams = 3 points. Form a daily team to get things done quicker, soloing is possible but takes longer. Everyone's a winner. Instead we have outsize teams of enemies scattered all over the city getting in the way and mashing everyone who even dares to take a punt at one of the missions with the wrong type of hero. And that's why it was so disappointing. During testing you could take a level 11 character into one of those mission zones and try it out without getting nuked - retreat was a viable option, so was sniping. But the devs decided they were going to make it so that you had to team... the end result of that is mission trains and 90% of the portal locations being completely and utterly ignored.
So far all I've seen is useless complaining about how it's too hard from people who can't seem to grasp the idea of not being able to solo everything.
So again I ask, what is the ACTUAL issue?
For me, the issue is that these creatures are in a zone where people are typically solo. The VAST majority of time in this zone is spent travelling by oneself to or from an instance or mission of one sort or another... and usually by lower levels.
I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that high level characters be able to solo these groups in a zone where soloing is typical. My assessment is that a reasonably geared L40 character should be able to handle these groups with relative ease. A character in the 30s should be able to solo them with some difficulty. One in the 20s should find them daunting... possible to solo, but likely better handled in a group. Characters less than that probably would need to be grouped, but these are very low level characters, and this doesn't seem to me to be an issue.
So, my excitement is gone, replaced with frustration and disappointment.
So, when you got the mission from the Event contact, you did not notice that it said recommended group of 3?
I've never taken any mission from anyone to do anything. I like to patrol the zone and just engage bad guys, cleaning up the streets, Batman-style. That said, my original suggestion should stand. The creatures in the zone should be soloable, and defeating them should open a portal or something *to an instance that is for groups of three.* The Halloween event works in this way.
People going into instances routinely group for them. People in an open zone routinely operate solo.
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!
Everyone like the Halloween event. There's good reasons for that.
1) The Fallen Heroes are easy to find and have distinctive locations 2) The Fallen Hero missions start easy (kill x number of zombies) then you spawn the boss/difficult enemies and need help. 3) That means you can start the mission, then bail or call for help, and people can find you. It's amazing how many level 40 characters are mooching around MC and are looking for something to do between dailies, and they usually turn up and help... with the Nightmare Missions you need a proper team, or it's all over too quickly to get the help of the more casually minded. 4) The Fallen Heroes all play differently after they were given passives. That's fun! 5) These missions unlock perks, drop useful things and "anytime" crypt content. You can solo that Crypt whenever you want, or look for a team at the time it opens; that works for everyone. The Crypts have mini-bosses which are good for testing builds and are challenging for toons in the 30s upwards; maybe not too difficult for all level 40s, but that means you can solo anytime with weird builds, support toons, not just the usual tank or dps. 6) Takofanes turns up when he turns up, which means players know where he'll be and they have to be there or miss out; less of this "I would attack the Chicken on PSI #3 but everyone appears to be in Westside and even if I stand here for 20 minutes while we wait for a Tank or for someone to finish their alert dailies everyone might have gone somewhere else". I really like the final boss fight in NI, it's really well designed, but I rarely get to play it as it takes so long to assemble a team.
Turns out that a decently geared lvl 40 Force Cascade spammer is quite capable of soloing both portals and worms. Just knock everyone around and away and pick them off one by one or in small groups as they make their way back. Nice to be able to unleash those FCs at full powers without worrying about if it's bothering other players in any way.
This year, I've largely avoided this event. It's great for teaming and if you want to RP through it or something, but outside of that...I personally find it a pain in the arse.
Turns out that a decently geared lvl 40 Force Cascade spammer is quite capable of soloing both portals and worms.
Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't... it depends on your luck with the spammy knocks and resulting lockouts. It's the usual poor CO combat experience.
I'm not trying to solo the dailies. I'm not even playing the event. What I'm trying to do is to play a new character, because that's what I enjoy doing. I want nothing to do with these portals, nor the creatures that spawn from them.
See, during Halloween the spawn points for the Undead Heroes tend not to be the same places I have to go when I'm level 10 or 11. They're off to the side by several blocks, so they won't spot me and aggro on me. On the other hand, when I enter or leave the area around the jail, I have to be very careful during the Nightmare Event because there's a portal right over there in the park. Wander over the center line in the street outside, and suddenly there are beings straight out of the Qliphothic Realms chasing after my poor starting toon.
I dunno, maybe you expect everyone to grind Alerts until their eyes bleed in order to level, but I enjoy playing Champions Online. And that's all I'm trying to do - play the damn game. But while this event's going on, that approaches the impossible. Fortunately, I can use some of my time to pursue the new T6 ship in STO, and my wife needs to use the computer most of the time to study for her degree in data analysis anyway. However, I will say that the way this event is set up is not terribly friendly to new players - and we need new players occasionally in order to keep this game from going under.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Just stay away from it then? I just remade Nightmare as a hexslinger and got through Westside without a hitch within a few hours. The mission areas (aside from Your Friends on the Force's path, but who does that one anyway?) were big enough that if a Nightmare portal was nearby you could easily stay away from it as long as you had a little spatial awareness and remembered how your travel power worked. If it's that big of an inconvenience there's always adventure packs which I generally level through anyway during the dry points with few missions.
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
I'm not trying to solo the dailies. I'm not even playing the event. What I'm trying to do is to play a new character, because that's what I enjoy doing. I want nothing to do with these portals, nor the creatures that spawn from them.
I'm still unclear on why you have such trouble avoiding these? Are your video settings really low, so you can not see very far? For all the spawns I have seen, there is always plenty of room to go around them. I mean, at least in CO we are not forced to spend our low levels without a travel power. Why can't you just go around?
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SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
So, my excitement is gone, replaced with frustration and disappointment.
So, when you got the mission from the Event contact, you did not notice that it said recommended group of 3?
I've never taken any mission from anyone to do anything. I like to patrol the zone and just engage bad guys, cleaning up the streets, Batman-style. That said, my original suggestion should stand. The creatures in the zone should be soloable, and defeating them should open a portal or something *to an instance that is for groups of three.* The Halloween event works in this way.
People going into instances routinely group for them. People in an open zone routinely operate solo.
Well, if are not interested in playing the game as designed, then why are you playing it? The game is designed around questing through contacts. The contacts sometimes give you hints as to how to do better. If you don't want to play the game the way it is designed, then you have to understand that the issue is on your side, not the game's side. Maybe this just isn't the game for you. And, of course, there is nothing wrong with that. There are tons of games I don't play because they are not the type of game I want to play. I don't like FPS games, so I don't play FPS games. If you don't like mission-contact based games, don't play mission-contact based games. We're not going to change the whole game that has been around for years just for you.
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SIGNATURE:
Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
Well, I once heard someone make the analogy that if you really wanted to accurately represent an encounter with a cosmic horror/eldrich abomination in a video game, the first stage of the boss battle would be to crash your computer and fry your hard drive. Let's be glad they didn't go that route.
Overall, I like the event. Sure, I'm getting my a$$ kicked. But that sort of makes sense. And I just managed to solo elder worms a couple days ago. And yesterday I was on a team with an awesome buffer/shielder and hardly took any damage at all. So I guess it's not completely impossible.
So far I've only been through the winter event and this, so I'm pretty clueless about comparisons. But I do like the suggestion of soloable mobs opening a portal to an instance where you'd fight groups like what are currently rampaging across Millennium city.
Mostly I'd tend to agree that this is Herald of Galactus, Cthulhu rising from the depths of Rlyeh (they're even modeled after Cthulhu), Great Old Ones Cult summoning an avatar of Azathoth level threat that makes even the most prominent superheroes go "Crap, we need help".
I'm still unclear on why you have such trouble avoiding these? Are your video settings really low, so you can not see very far? For all the spawns I have seen, there is always plenty of room to go around them. I mean, at least in CO we are not forced to spend our low levels without a travel power. Why can't you just go around?
There is at least one mission in the level 11 region where completing it means going through an area which has at least one Elder Worm siphon and two batches of Qlipthotic Horrors (it's the area just behind Little Italy). The creative solution is to use the Until Guardian in the Onslaught base to clear away the Horrors (just aggro them, kite them into the Onslaught base, and bingo) but they are in the way a bit. It used to be worse, as there used to be a portal down there (but I think it got moved, due to the plan I've just outlined). The other plan is to block and keep moving - Portal Horrors are tied to their location, if you keep moving away they either run back or unexpectedly die.
Well, if are not interested in playing the game as designed, then why are you playing it? The game is designed around questing through contacts.
There's still a lot of it you can do without taking the missions and dealing the contacts. I can't say I bother with the Quests for things like Clarence and there are other events which drop Skull level mobs all over the city, which you can use for practice and levelling... and if you're not playing it through for the 1000th time, discovering the city is actually quite fun. It's not too difficult to throw those players a bone or two in every event.
Did my event dailies today by taking my FC toon back into the Powerhouse and retconning her spare power into Invulnerability. Didn't really want to end up with that solution - tried a few other things to work with the normal Offensive passive but the end result was death by knock spam 80% of the time. Even something like Circle of Primal Dominion - which is supposed to be the end of all Knock - didn't cut it. In the end I think I had Invuln. and IDF running, which pretty much covered it off. I wish there were more solutions but I can't think of many more... any ideas?
Well, if are not interested in playing the game as designed, then why are you playing it? The game is designed around questing through contacts. The contacts sometimes give you hints as to how to do better. If you don't want to play the game the way it is designed, then you have to understand that the issue is on your side, not the game's side. [...]
At level 40, a player can solo everything in MC. For most events, they can even solo the dailies that are not the big bads. Seems like players expecting to be able to solo the trash mob dailies is intended design except when it's suddenly not (this event) because the devs failed to have consistency in their design.
Considering this event's mobs were MUCH EASIER before the Warzone update would suggest that the event was designed to allow for solo players to do things. The Nightmare Invasion was not updated to account for the buffed mobs. Plus, those mobs drop event currency, which seems an awful lot like devs didn't design the event to be done exclusively through missions. Why would you even be allowed to attack mobs at all without a quest if they were designed to be done through a quest?
I wish there were more solutions but I can't think of many more... any ideas?
I took my Defiant tank out. He uses Sentinel Mastery and Telekinetic Barrage + Dazzle. It was painfully slow since he has no damage, but could just stand there and spam through most of it. The OnSlaught tank gloves also help, if you have them. Masterful Dodge for the beginning of the fight. Block at the beginning of the fight. My beefy DPS (j-gear / onslaught) uses Meltdown as soon as I can stop blocking. The TK blades Ult can be spun while blocking. There are a few blocks that do damage while blocking. I think you can use Sparkstorm as a toggle while blocking.
My DPS has ~400 str + unstoppable which has knock resist... Still gets tossed, so there probably isn't anything you can do about that outside of blocking.
This event is the worst. It was kind of interesting when it first came out but it's hot garbage now. I like the colossus fight, it's got stuff that really requires teamwork but is not too complex to require constant communication and planning, the daily missions on the other hand, terrible design and not worth the time they require unless you have a team.
This event is the worst. It was kind of interesting when it first came out but it's hot garbage now. I like the colossus fight, it's got stuff that really requires teamwork but is not too complex to require constant communication and planning, the daily missions on the other hand, terrible design and not worth the time they require unless you have a team.
Don't have to team up with others to do them, unless you can't adjust and adapt to the way the dailies are supposed to be done.
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Gotta agree. That's a blanket statement that's pretty much untrue in my experience. Using sniping hit-and-run tactics I soloed them with an archer build. Sure, not all builds and levels can do it, but it's quite possible to solo them.
I agree this event is a mess. There isn't even parity between the two different dailies. Worms are significantly easier than the Cultist.
Really just seems to be a case of the devs (and many vet players) that don't seem to understand they are the exception when it comes to claiming how easy or hard content is due to effectively being game experts. NI got a mega massive ramp up in difficulty with the mob update. Even alerts were altered so players weren't being crushed while leveling. Many players still needed to group up for the portal daily even before the mob update. And I could actually bump into people doing dailies or at least see people were doing the dailies as mob groups had been defeated.
The popularity of this event has done nothing but go down hill since the mob update, with complaints being ignored. What is the point in even having an event that people are getting sick of more and more simply due to a single mob group people hate? Something the devs could absolutely fix by lowering the over abundance of portal mobs.
For the times I've been able to get on during this event there's been a healthy amount of people teaming up for the dailies so there's enough interest I think. For the people actually trying to get the dailies finished I think it's working.
It's still quite popular, people are still playing and having fun. It's just that, with another round of polish, it could have been more inclusive and more fun. It's one of the ways in which CO's lack of resources shows, there's never quite enough time and money to do things in the manner which the game deserves.
Thanks for the build advice, btw. I wish I could think of a way to run the dailies without going into hybrid tank mode but I guess that's the only viable solo form. Now, about that aura I fancied the look of...
Really just seems to be a case of the devs (and many vet players) that don't seem to understand they are the exception when it comes to claiming how easy or hard content is due to effectively being game experts.
If I'm a "game expert" here then it doesn't take much to become a "game expert" in CO honestly. I still think people on forums are just exaggerating a lot when they talk about certain people being "the exception". The "average player" isn't the helpless dope you folks try to paint them as.
Thanks for the build advice, btw. I wish I could think of a way to run the dailies without going into hybrid tank mode but I guess that's the only viable solo form. Now, about that aura I fancied the look of...
Nobody tell my melee dps role character that, they might feel like a "game expert" owo
That's great for you. None of my characters, even my best character, can solo the portal mobs. I'm a vet, average player and hopeless dope all on one I guess.
That's great for you. None of my characters, even my best character, can solo the portal mobs. I'm a vet, average player and hopeless dope all on one I guess.
That's great for you. None of my characters, even my best character, can solo the portal mobs. I'm a vet, average player and hopeless dope all on one I guess.
The problem with the portals is that there's no point to fighting the individual spawns, you have to just focus down the portal (which is in the middle of everything else), and if it didn't spawn at level 34- (in which case there's no AoRP protecting it) it takes a while to do so. I do think the portal mobs should be set to have their inherent level fixed (no higher than 30) instead of being the same as the character who caused them to spawn.
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Am I gto sit here to think tha Cryptic thinks everyone likes to into battle with anyone else in general? It's not like that on a daily basis. The fact is, more people are in the market for games where they can do things alone in games then having to be dependent on others.
But seeing the direction Cryptic is going, makes me miss Gazillion Entertainment's Marvel Heroes Omega more and more because Cryptic can't design a game that has that Marvel Heroes Omega feel to it. Don't worry, the company of Daybreak did a terrible job with DCUO. For once I li0ke to see Perfect World design a game with that Marvel Heroes Omega feel to it....and without all the biased programmiung.
Some of my characters can solo mobs in this event with little issue, but I generally don't build too tanky...which seems to be to my detriment when it comes to trying to solo things that are higher level...which is a shame, but I also understand to a degree. (QWZ and this event is great if you are a melee tank with decent healing or someone who can obliterate things really fast...anything in between is a little sketchy at times)
I'd like to say, I'd feel comfortable running this event more if it was more soloable, but I know that's about as likely to happen as all of Gravitar's powers (at that strength) being made available to players.
Equally though...the event is very much aptly named. It is a pain in the arse and is annoying AF...because it is a Nightmare Invasion.
If it was more palatable to
everyonethose who don't particularly like it (myself included) there may be concerns that it hasn't hit the mark.Side note: If I was able to team up more, I think I'd enjoy the event A LOT more...but due to my own schedule...that isn't too possible all the time. Also sometimes...it's empowering to run stuff yourself.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
keep trying to fight the Nightmare characters at level 25 with the Tempest Archtype.....I keep dying, when doing the quests needed.
Glass cannon AT with no real defense or healing dies against things that don't immediately go splat. Sounds as intended, so I'm chalking this one up to salt.
Also I love how you geeks decided to name an event after me. Really shows the lo- WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT FOR ME?!
When it was produced about 80% of the players loitering in MC were level 40. The expectation was that they would do something besides loiter.
Maybe every group of baddies should have had a team up button activator area near them.
Also, to get those boxes of weapons poes cronies left lying around, you can just zip-zap teleport to another zone and get the boxes there that aren't being lorded over by greater lesser evil.
Curious: since many people have zero interest in this daily and the portal exist, does that mean mobs will endlessly pop out making it more difficult for people that do try the daily?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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The NI mobs are worse than the Q-Zone. Lots worse.
I fail to see the issue in this. Would every single portal giving rewards like at Bloodmoon fix the grumbling and groaning or are ya'll just upset you can't steamroll it?
So again I ask, what is the ACTUAL issue?
One of the things I liked about this event in testing was the way the NI mobs interacted with the NPC and its still the case. There's a rooftop behind City Hall with a Nightmare Portal on it. It also has three members of the New Purple Gang, who respawn every 60 seconds and who are then promptly despatched by the Nightmare Acolytes or whatever they are called. It's quite Sisyphean.
Given the number of people not enjoying it, and considering their reasons are all pretty valid, I'd say it's anything but "useless complaining." It's a poorly tuned, poorly-designed, intrusive, and generally irritating event.
As individuals they are the same as the Q zone but they spawn in bigger, nastier groups. There is 1 x Nightmare Demolisher, 4 x Unstable Brutes, 3 x Qlipthotic Acolytes and a couple of Regal Fiends at each portal - that's around double the lineup for any QWZ individual mission. And yes, the stuns, pulls, knocks and lock-outs (especially the lockouts) are the problem.
Seriously, the first few replies are "yo this is a team event" followed by the walls of moaning about team content complete with "F the Trinity system!" and Mr. Altaholism himself on character who knows what complaining about low level areas.
Instead you've decided to come across as a d*ck on the forums regarding this issue. That isn't helpful.
If you cannot understand or cannot try to understand someone's point of view...just leave it alone.
You "clearly" have no issue with this event, so please, go ahead and enjoy it.
Despite complaining about it, I'm sure some here (myself for example) do enjoy aspects of it.
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> @magpieuk2014 said:
> Are you sure it's not just due to their sheer numbers? I find that the individual mobs seem weaker than their QWZ counterparts, even when spawned by a level 40. It's the obnoxious combination of massive chain-knockbacks and stuns that rain down upon players that makes them seem tougher as a whole.
>
> As individuals they are the same as the Q zone but they spawn in bigger, nastier groups. There is 1 x Nightmare Demolisher, 4 x Unstable Brutes, 3 x Qlipthotic Acolytes and a couple of Regal Fiends at each portal - that's around double the lineup for any QWZ individual mission. And yes, the stuns, pulls, knocks and lock-outs (especially the lockouts) are the problem.
Is the damage too high? Is the DR and health too high? Is the overall respawn rate from the portal at a point that its sanity breaking? The blanket statements of how it's badly designed aren't doing anything so I can actually offer advice or expand on how it can be fixed.
Just off the mob comp the only real ones of issue are the brutes and the acolytes simply due to how both have mechanics which can slow the fight to a crawl. Brutes building resistance inherently has made killing them on my Glacier a huge chore and the Acolytes having that bloody shield that puts Inner Circle Members' to shame both make me want to run my head into a wall.
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By the time people figure out that "oh that requirement was real" they've already been slaughtered and disappointed. The game teaches people that the group requirement is BS... until it's suddenly not.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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2) I can easily solo the portal packs and I generally don't bother questing to level my alts, so neither of those apply to me. Yet, I still dislike this event because I know most people don't build characters with the specific goal of being able to solo poorly-tuned content, nor do I expect them to. I also understand the new player experience, and that having to avoid event-spawned murder machine packs as a woefully-unprepared newbie is lame.
> lordnightmare lordnightmare#9851
>
> wrote: »
>
> The number of people who are complaining are like.. 8 people on a forum. The reasons are again boiling down to not being able to solo OR the mobs being within a low level area to which I simply say to change to another character if it's that bad.
>
>
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> 1) Just like with any sample population vs the whole, the ratio of a small slice of a given population's opinions can still give an approximate representation of the total population's views. How many players do you think dislike this event, but remain silent about it because they don't visit the forums?
>
> 2) I can easily solo the portal packs and I generally don't bother questing to level my alts, so neither of those apply to me. Yet, I still dislike this event because I know most people don't build characters with the specific goal of being able to solo poorly-tuned content, nor do I expect them to. I also understand the new player experience, and that having to avoid event-spawned murder machine packs as a woefully-unprepared newbie is lame.
It's literally only here that I see complaints, though. Zone, Trade, and the various other channels I have are either people coordinating for the event or just the usual talk in those channels. So again, it seems to be relegated to only a few people on a message board.
"Well most people don't build to solo poorly-tuned content". Well good because as we've been over many times NO ONE IS SUPPOSED TO SOLO THESE EVENTS. If you're able to then good job, you broke the system. Otherwise it's really not that much of an inconvenience to find a group of people and go do the dailies and chicken fight. It's what us AT players did for a while before On Alert.
It should be easy to avoid the mobs if you're not trying to do the event, so it's on Cryptic to give the event a look to see what can be changed, not on the players to offer solutions. While there's nothing wrong with the latter, the players aren't just "uselessly complaining". They're making a problem known that should be addressed. It's not about them not being able to or wanting to solo everything, it's about them wanting to do the story missions without interference from these mobs. A lot of people are saying "They're for a GROUP MISSION, didn't you read that part?" Well that'd be fine if the players were trying to do the missions solo, but a lot of them are trying to avoid the mobs and not do the missions. There's plenty of places to put the mobs that won't be in anyone's way, and that's probably the best fix for this.
Most other events have mobs set up around the map in similar fashion, but they're just not this hard so people tend not to complain about them. This event is an outlier in that the mobs are super tough for most players, even well-geared cosmics-fighters. Throwing those next to areas where people are gonna have trouble running missions and turning them in is a design flaw.
People don't really use in-game chat channels for negative comments. They're not a healthy environment. Forums are better because (generally) they're more considered and because the people who post on them are a) more accepting of the fact that not everyone likes everything in the game and b) less likely to troll for the public lolz.
Is the damage too high? Is the DR and health too high? Is the overall respawn rate from the portal at a point that its sanity breaking? The blanket statements of how it's badly designed aren't doing anything so I can actually offer advice or expand on how it can be fixed.
Sorry that you're late to the party, but it was all laid out when the event was introduced. The mobs are all familiar from the Q-zone and I have characters capable of beating groups of QWZ Demolishers, Elder Worms, or whatever, and am aware of the need to attack specific types of enemy to knock out auras, or shields, etc. No problem with that.
The problem with these mobs is that they tend to unload everything on the first target that they see. And that means loads - really, loads of knocks, pull-tos, stuns and lockouts. This is OK as a design idea if you have a trinity based team of heroes and the tank - who is set up to resist all this nonsense - does what tanks do and aggros the enemies, turtles up and does only enough offensive action to keep the enemy's attention. Then the damage based characters can eliminate the important enemies and take down the portal. It works a treat.
But MC is an open world zone and people aren't forming small trinity mission teams. They're doing other things, nosing around between alerts, trying to complete dailies solo without being tied down to three other people's schedules, and of course there are all the other players who aren't playing the event to be reckoned with.
So really each of the NI daily missions should have been structured a bit differently with two ways of completing them. For each daily you have to get a certain number of points, and there are different portal types worth different numbers of points. Ones defended by Q-zone type teams = 1 point, those defended by larger teams = 3 points. Form a daily team to get things done quicker, soloing is possible but takes longer. Everyone's a winner. Instead we have outsize teams of enemies scattered all over the city getting in the way and mashing everyone who even dares to take a punt at one of the missions with the wrong type of hero. And that's why it was so disappointing. During testing you could take a level 11 character into one of those mission zones and try it out without getting nuked - retreat was a viable option, so was sniping. But the devs decided they were going to make it so that you had to team... the end result of that is mission trains and 90% of the portal locations being completely and utterly ignored.
I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that high level characters be able to solo these groups in a zone where soloing is typical. My assessment is that a reasonably geared L40 character should be able to handle these groups with relative ease. A character in the 30s should be able to solo them with some difficulty. One in the 20s should find them daunting... possible to solo, but likely better handled in a group. Characters less than that probably would need to be grouped, but these are very low level characters, and this doesn't seem to me to be an issue. I've never taken any mission from anyone to do anything. I like to patrol the zone and just engage bad guys, cleaning up the streets, Batman-style. That said, my original suggestion should stand. The creatures in the zone should be soloable, and defeating them should open a portal or something *to an instance that is for groups of three.* The Halloween event works in this way.
People going into instances routinely group for them. People in an open zone routinely operate solo.
Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
Everyone like the Halloween event. There's good reasons for that.
1) The Fallen Heroes are easy to find and have distinctive locations
2) The Fallen Hero missions start easy (kill x number of zombies) then you spawn the boss/difficult enemies and need help.
3) That means you can start the mission, then bail or call for help, and people can find you. It's amazing how many level 40 characters are mooching around MC and are looking for something to do between dailies, and they usually turn up and help... with the Nightmare Missions you need a proper team, or it's all over too quickly to get the help of the more casually minded.
4) The Fallen Heroes all play differently after they were given passives. That's fun!
5) These missions unlock perks, drop useful things and "anytime" crypt content. You can solo that Crypt whenever you want, or look for a team at the time it opens; that works for everyone. The Crypts have mini-bosses which are good for testing builds and are challenging for toons in the 30s upwards; maybe not too difficult for all level 40s, but that means you can solo anytime with weird builds, support toons, not just the usual tank or dps.
6) Takofanes turns up when he turns up, which means players know where he'll be and they have to be there or miss out; less of this "I would attack the Chicken on PSI #3 but everyone appears to be in Westside and even if I stand here for 20 minutes while we wait for a Tank or for someone to finish their alert dailies everyone might have gone somewhere else". I really like the final boss fight in NI, it's really well designed, but I rarely get to play it as it takes so long to assemble a team.
Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't... it depends on your luck with the spammy knocks and resulting lockouts. It's the usual poor CO combat experience.
I'm not trying to solo the dailies. I'm not even playing the event. What I'm trying to do is to play a new character, because that's what I enjoy doing. I want nothing to do with these portals, nor the creatures that spawn from them.
See, during Halloween the spawn points for the Undead Heroes tend not to be the same places I have to go when I'm level 10 or 11. They're off to the side by several blocks, so they won't spot me and aggro on me. On the other hand, when I enter or leave the area around the jail, I have to be very careful during the Nightmare Event because there's a portal right over there in the park. Wander over the center line in the street outside, and suddenly there are beings straight out of the Qliphothic Realms chasing after my poor starting toon.
I dunno, maybe you expect everyone to grind Alerts until their eyes bleed in order to level, but I enjoy playing Champions Online. And that's all I'm trying to do - play the damn game. But while this event's going on, that approaches the impossible. Fortunately, I can use some of my time to pursue the new T6 ship in STO, and my wife needs to use the computer most of the time to study for her degree in data analysis anyway. However, I will say that the way this event is set up is not terribly friendly to new players - and we need new players occasionally in order to keep this game from going under.
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If it's that big of an inconvenience there's always adventure packs which I generally level through anyway during the dry points with few missions.
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People going into instances routinely group for them. People in an open zone routinely operate solo.
Well, if are not interested in playing the game as designed, then why are you playing it? The game is designed around questing through contacts. The contacts sometimes give you hints as to how to do better. If you don't want to play the game the way it is designed, then you have to understand that the issue is on your side, not the game's side. Maybe this just isn't the game for you. And, of course, there is nothing wrong with that. There are tons of games I don't play because they are not the type of game I want to play. I don't like FPS games, so I don't play FPS games. If you don't like mission-contact based games, don't play mission-contact based games. We're not going to change the whole game that has been around for years just for you.
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Overall, I like the event. Sure, I'm getting my a$$ kicked. But that sort of makes sense. And I just managed to solo elder worms a couple days ago. And yesterday I was on a team with an awesome buffer/shielder and hardly took any damage at all. So I guess it's not completely impossible.
So far I've only been through the winter event and this, so I'm pretty clueless about comparisons. But I do like the suggestion of soloable mobs opening a portal to an instance where you'd fight groups like what are currently rampaging across Millennium city.
Mostly I'd tend to agree that this is Herald of Galactus, Cthulhu rising from the depths of Rlyeh (they're even modeled after Cthulhu), Great Old Ones Cult summoning an avatar of Azathoth level threat that makes even the most prominent superheroes go "Crap, we need help".
There is at least one mission in the level 11 region where completing it means going through an area which has at least one Elder Worm siphon and two batches of Qlipthotic Horrors (it's the area just behind Little Italy). The creative solution is to use the Until Guardian in the Onslaught base to clear away the Horrors (just aggro them, kite them into the Onslaught base, and bingo) but they are in the way a bit. It used to be worse, as there used to be a portal down there (but I think it got moved, due to the plan I've just outlined). The other plan is to block and keep moving - Portal Horrors are tied to their location, if you keep moving away they either run back or unexpectedly die.
Well, if are not interested in playing the game as designed, then why are you playing it? The game is designed around questing through contacts.
There's still a lot of it you can do without taking the missions and dealing the contacts. I can't say I bother with the Quests for things like Clarence and there are other events which drop Skull level mobs all over the city, which you can use for practice and levelling... and if you're not playing it through for the 1000th time, discovering the city is actually quite fun. It's not too difficult to throw those players a bone or two in every event.
Did my event dailies today by taking my FC toon back into the Powerhouse and retconning her spare power into Invulnerability. Didn't really want to end up with that solution - tried a few other things to work with the normal Offensive passive but the end result was death by knock spam 80% of the time. Even something like Circle of Primal Dominion - which is supposed to be the end of all Knock - didn't cut it. In the end I think I had Invuln. and IDF running, which pretty much covered it off. I wish there were more solutions but I can't think of many more... any ideas?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
At level 40, a player can solo everything in MC. For most events, they can even solo the dailies that are not the big bads. Seems like players expecting to be able to solo the trash mob dailies is intended design except when it's suddenly not (this event) because the devs failed to have consistency in their design.
Considering this event's mobs were MUCH EASIER before the Warzone update would suggest that the event was designed to allow for solo players to do things. The Nightmare Invasion was not updated to account for the buffed mobs. Plus, those mobs drop event currency, which seems an awful lot like devs didn't design the event to be done exclusively through missions. Why would you even be allowed to attack mobs at all without a quest if they were designed to be done through a quest?
I wish there were more solutions but I can't think of many more... any ideas?
I took my Defiant tank out. He uses Sentinel Mastery and Telekinetic Barrage + Dazzle. It was painfully slow since he has no damage, but could just stand there and spam through most of it. The OnSlaught tank gloves also help, if you have them. Masterful Dodge for the beginning of the fight. Block at the beginning of the fight. My beefy DPS (j-gear / onslaught) uses Meltdown as soon as I can stop blocking. The TK blades Ult can be spun while blocking. There are a few blocks that do damage while blocking. I think you can use Sparkstorm as a toggle while blocking.
My DPS has ~400 str + unstoppable which has knock resist... Still gets tossed, so there probably isn't anything you can do about that outside of blocking.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Really just seems to be a case of the devs (and many vet players) that don't seem to understand they are the exception when it comes to claiming how easy or hard content is due to effectively being game experts. NI got a mega massive ramp up in difficulty with the mob update. Even alerts were altered so players weren't being crushed while leveling. Many players still needed to group up for the portal daily even before the mob update. And I could actually bump into people doing dailies or at least see people were doing the dailies as mob groups had been defeated.
The popularity of this event has done nothing but go down hill since the mob update, with complaints being ignored. What is the point in even having an event that people are getting sick of more and more simply due to a single mob group people hate? Something the devs could absolutely fix by lowering the over abundance of portal mobs.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Thanks for the build advice, btw. I wish I could think of a way to run the dailies without going into hybrid tank mode but I guess that's the only viable solo form. Now, about that aura I fancied the look of...
Nobody tell my melee dps role character that, they might feel like a "game expert" owo
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained