QFT. Probably going to piss some people off but most of the games lifers have been LTS for a handful of years. That money has already been counted, spent, depreciated and consigned to Valhalla. It's great if they spend more money on the game after that but I don't have any idea how much or what LTS spend money on.
Went LTS during a sale about a year ago and at that time people were saying the game was doomed and wasn't going to last long enough to be worth it, they have been saying that for all of the five years I've been playing this game and likely long before that. Before I was LTS I had a sub for awhile then back to a silver account where I somehow managed to by six or seven ff slots... wasn't enough so I went LTS and should have done so a lot sooner... still I'm pleased with what CO still has to offer and while I probably do spend quite a bit less on stuff now that I have my lifetime sub, I still spend money on keys from time to time when something new and shiny I want comes out.
Yeah, the game is a LOT more fun than it was when I got LTS!
How so? because people are 'encouraged' (cause of Revamps) to change their approach then being complacent on self serving/exploitative builds/devices like they did before cosmic revamp? *Shudders at the memories of lack of support for dependent DPS builds suffering in Gravitar Rampages years ago* maybe not so much, still happens.
Then why not be a little less co-dependent on support? I don't think adhering to a trinity is grounds at all for adjustments. Not saying thats what they're doing but still. I've seen a few people coast on that, and to them I say there's already plenty of WoW clones to get their fix(including WoW itself).
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Can you call it "trinity" when there's actually FOUR roles? I mean unless you roll healer and controller into "support" which really doesn't play the same...
Then why not be a little less co-dependent on support? I don't think adhering to a trinity is grounds at all for adjustments. Not saying thats what they're doing but still. I've seen a few people coast on that, and to them I say there's already plenty of WoW clones to get their fix(including WoW itself).
We have a long way to go before we can be a WoW clone. Considering the teeny tiny percent of content where you actually depend on the support role being present, backing off from that would be like a guy who ate an apple once being like "Woah woah woah I gotta back off this vegetarian thing...".
Well, I was a freeloader, but my stipend is two days late so far... :dissapointed:
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Personally, I think the game would make more money if everyone got one FF slot for free. And instead new powers were sold. So free players get one free FF slot and access to a limited number of power sets (for ex: Sorcery, Martial Arts, Archery, Fire). If Free players want to access new power sets, they will need to either a) subscribe or b) buy them a la carte. Subscribers and lifetime members get access to all power sets.
This could potentially provide a revenue source for developing new powers. Of course, at this late stage of the game's life - it would probably be easiest to just develop a shiny new game and retire CO. Which I realize sounds like sacrilege *ducks and hides*
Selling powers like that has been suggested many times over the years and it still sounds just as awful now as it did then. I agree with the idea of giving people 1 FF slot either free or at a one time discount, but to then say "oh you're still limited tho, buy powers" sounds like it would stunt FF slot sales. That would be a shame too, because giving people a FF slot has the potential to get them to want to buy more of them, or even sub - that potential shrinks considerably when that FF slot the player gets is a garbage version of real FF. You want the player going "wow I have so many options, to use them all I'll need more characters!" not "Oh, this 'free slot' is just like WoW's 'F2P' LOL".
Yes to free or discounted first slot, 100% no to selling powersets.
Glad you found what makes you personally happy. For me, I've only become more satisfied with my LTS purchase over time because currently this game is on a consistent upward slope. I wouldn't be surprised if I'll be playing this game for years to come. Folks years ago said this game was late in its life and was going to shut down soon... here we are years later and the game looks further from a shutdown every day.
Aww. They don't have a thumbsup smiley. But I agree. Never regretted my LTS.
Make one of the 3 silver slots an FF and drop the automation unlock. Lower the prices or get busy developing the game. I'm not gonna spend 300 bones on a game i was able to shelf for a year with no problem. Like most corporations they wanna over charge for substandard product.
My lvl 40 champs in random order.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
Maybe? But then you can't call a game "free to play" when they ask you to pay for a subscription. Yeah, don't think I don't kknow when I see that there's a catch into everything. Nice try, Arc. This is the only game system I have heard of that does that. Heh....yet to even see that things may not be based on a fair market value. We shouls be able to get more for less on a game like this.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
Everything in the game can be obtained for nothing spent besides the time it takes to grind for it(which would take a billion years to do but still technically possible.) Grind questionite, trade questionite for zen, spend zen on items in zen store, repeat.
Maybe? But then you can't call a game "free to play" when they ask you to pay for a subscription.
They actually can call it free to play, since it is in fact free to play the game. Every area in the game can be accessed for free. How much more free do you need before you can use the word free? Like Finn always says "Free For All, not All For Free". That's like if you're staying at somebody's house rent free for a year and then one day they're like "hey wanna buy my old car?" and you accuse them of not letting you stay at their house for free. Ye they have some ATs that you can buy ( with real money or in game currency ), but they also offer way more ATs than most F2P mmos offer classes.
Hey, you should go check out WoW's "free to play" content. That might give you some perspective :3c
Hey, you should go check out WoW's "free to play" content. That might give you some perspective :3c
Or SWTOR's. You can't even use the in-game mail without paying.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Whenever I hear people complain about the subscription cost I just have to chuckle. For about the price of a 2 hour movie at the theater you can play this game for as much as you want for an entire month.
Best entertainment money I ever spent was for the LTS for this game. I did watch for the sale (saved $100) and there is usually one around this time though CO never advertises it in advance.
Maybe? But then you can't call a game "free to play" when they ask you to pay for a subscription. Yeah, don't think I don't kknow when I see that there's a catch into everything. Nice try, Arc. This is the only game system I have heard of that does that. Heh....yet to even see that things may not be based on a fair market value. We shouls be able to get more for less on a game like this.
i'd like to know what games have you played. Maybe you should just go try other games, maybe. Ones that you feel are the real Free To Play ones. You know ones that give more of the fair market value. Since every post so far is a complaint. If you're not having fun, feel free to move on. It's free. And ARC is not a publisher or the creator of this game fyi. You should try to GOOGLE Cryptic or Perfect World International.
Controller is shoehorned in for maybe 3 pieces of content and not an actual real role in this game. CO control mechanics are beyond laughable.
Just cause you can't use a CCer effectively doesn't mean nobody else can.
Yes, and endgame Controller can do acceptably well: even my debuffer manages 32 second paralyzes with Redemption Denied. However, for the rest of the game (ie: the 1-39 experience), not so much fun. Coming out of the tutorial, your choices are Ice Cage, Binding Shot, Binding of Aratron (roots all), and Ego Sleep. All fairly short duration at that point, and all very fragile. And that's where new-to-CO-style-control players get their first impression of the system. (And yes, we are familiar with your impressions of the leveling experience.)
-
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Yes, and endgame Controller can do acceptably well: even my debuffer manages 32 second paralyzes with Redemption Denied. However, for the rest of the game (ie: the 1-39 experience), not so much fun. Coming out of the tutorial, your choices are Ice Cage, Binding Shot, Binding of Aratron (roots all), and Ego Sleep. All fairly short duration at that point, and all very fragile. And that's where new-to-CO-style-control players get their first impression of the system. (And yes, we are familiar with your impressions of the leveling experience.)
Everyone's choices for everything are very limited out-of-the-powerhouse. Enemies are also very weak. Here's the good news: You'll quickly move beyond that level and have more options and your impression will continue to evolve - in fact, we now have more CC options than ever before, and some of them are really cool and powerful.
I always take CC powers when I level up, primarily due to my experience leveling up a full CCer. CC powers are just a lot of fun to use, and they feel more active and actiony than some of the more 'passive' solutions to problems.
Guess none of these people have played Trainstopping with a good CCer who can lock down the entire alert for the duration. The only content where CC isn’t “effective” would be single-boss stuff like Dino, F&I, Grav, etc. That’s a tiny part of the game, though. Everywhere else, you can do all kinds of great stuff if you take the time to make a good CC build (and you can do useful stuff just using utility powers).
You get 10 Archetypes for free, that you can play right off the bat. Automaton is free, but doesn't unlock (for anyone, FTP or not) until you get a character to 40.
There are 9 more ATs that can be unlocked through holiday/event currency. (Currently, that'd be the Icicle, which is a nice ranged DPS AT).
You can unlock every other AT by converting resources farmed in game into Zen, so don't have to crack your wallet to unlock them. If you wait for a sale, you'll have a lot less grinding to do.
If you want to pay to try some of the other ATs, you can buy a 60 day time card from Amazon for $15.99 currently. That's eight bucks a month. You get your monthly 500 zen stipend for each month, so that's a ten dollar value. You also get some additional character slots, which cost whatever. In other words, it's cheap to start with and you get other benefits that further offset the cost.
You can play every bit of content in the game without spending a dime.
The paid ATs are not significantly better than the free ones. Some are better than others in each case. I have leveled every free and most of the unlockable ATs to max level, and they are ALL perfectly playable.
If you don't like the FTP/freemium model here, you can go play SW:TOR and find out what a real money grab model is. CO's model is more than generous.
Are they even called "silver premium ATs"? Last I heard they were just called Premium Archetypes, denoting them as Archetypes that you have to pay for. Attaching Silver to them would imply that they're silver-exclusive, which would be silly since all Silver means is "not a subbed account".
CO's model isn't generous at all, it's not particularly greedy but not "generous"
You get all of the content for free. You get a good selection of ATs for free. They gave away a freeform slot for free some time back. There are very few account restrictions on free accounts in general. By industry standards, it's definitely on the generous side. Certainly generous enough not to have to run to the forums and complain about right out of the gate, like the OP has done.
If you know of a game with a better FTP/freemium model, let me know. I like MMOs, but most of the free to play or freemium ones, especially former AAA titles, are fairly restrictive.
DDO's buy as you go model is pretty decent, similar to buying modules in old school paper DnD, but you definitely don't get as much on the free side as CO.
LOTRO is more restrictive, even for former subscribers. Not as good as CO IMO.
Rift seems OK, though I haven't played it much b/c I don't like the gloomy atmosphere.
SW:TOR is a joke.
DCUO is a joke.
Wildstar seems OK, but I haven't delved into it. I was a former paid account (preordered), so may have less restrictions than a straight free player. It's hard on my hands, though (RSIs), so I don't play it enough to have a good feel for it.
I can't think of any others off hand, except the three buy to play games I currently have installed, but they're not really FTP or freemium in the sense that the others are.
What's better about the STO model? I stopped playing when they did the Romulan update and made my character unplayable. The solution was giving her a sex change, apparently, so I just deleted and never got back into it.
What's better about the STO model? I stopped playing when they did the Romulan update and made my character unplayable. The solution was giving her a sex change, apparently, so I just deleted and never got back into it.
The first question that springs to mind is, in what way was a character made "unplayable" that's only fixed by changing the gender, which affects only appearance?
Secondly, in STO the only thing limited to subscribers are the Chimera-class heavy escort (which doesn't bother me because that thing's almost as ugly as a Breen ship), the ability to play as a Liberated Borg, and, after a certain period, a free android Bridge Officer (I think it's a Soong-type, so it's not the same as the 0718 model that comes with the Temporal Agent pack, or the one you can get from your fleet's K-13 space station). Everything else is available via either purchase or grind, and grinding Dilithium isn't as hard as grinding Q because more missions offer it, and because there's a Dilithium Mine where you can go once a day to get even more. It's not hard even for someone as incredibly casual as me to hit the Silver refining cap of 8000 Dil.
Put it this way - I've got a wide selection of character species, BOff species, and ships of every tier including 6 (the top end). And the only money I put into STO was to purchase the Temporal Agent pack, and that was just because I wanted those sweet, sweet TOS-style ship skins and didn't want to have to wait while I got all the Dil I needed for it. (Kevin Timeline currently commands USS Time Bandit, a T6 Paladin-class battlecruiser wearing a Ranger-class skin, and Tarvek is CO of USS Pike, a T6 Escort wearing the skin of a Gemini-class.)
CO's model is quite generous, but so is STO's. NW's is... less so. You can access all of the content, but it costs in-game currency if you want to, say, change the color of your clothing. Still lightyears ahead of SWTOR, or what passes for a "free-to-play" in WoW, but not as nice as Cryptic's other offerings.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
So CO and NWO are two of the most generous F2P MMOs there are. As for OP complaining about not getting enough free... "Give em an inch and they'll take a mile"?
Haven't played Wildstar in a while but their system is pretty good. Each week you get a certain amount of currency (OmniBits) you can earn. You earn them from doing anything you'd normally do. Fight stuff, do quests, farm materials, etc. you don't have to go out of your way to get them. If you play a lot and reach the limit for the week, the chance for them to drop is reduced by a lot. So you can still get even more if you play a lot.
Anyway the OmniBits can be spent directly in the cash shop on most things, and is an account-based currency, meaning you don't collect it on a single character, and you can't earn more by farming on lots of characters.
As far as playable content, I don't think there's anything that's locked behind a paywall.
What's better about the STO model? I stopped playing when they did the Romulan update and made my character unplayable. The solution was giving her a sex change, apparently, so I just deleted and never got back into it.
The first question that springs to mind is, in what way was a character made "unplayable" that's only fixed by changing the gender, which affects only appearance?
I was never told. My only guess is a graphic glitch? It was when they changed the login screen layout. You just couldn't log the character in. After weeks of back and forth and escalation, that's what they came up with. Anyway, it was bizarre.
I'm not against giving the game another try at some point. I wasn't too invested in that character, as it was still really low level. It's just that it took so long to fix, and the fix was so weird, that I lost interest in dealing with learning the basics all over again by running another character through the starter stuff. It's always in the back of my mind to give another shot though.
OP, if you think the f2p model is bad here, go play SWTOR or EQ2. Compared to this game, SWTOR has a horrible f2p model. EQ2’s isn’t much better, it spams your browser every time you close the game, and throws out advertisements to subscribe. EQ2 won’t even let you send mail or receive mail attachments unless you pay. You also have to buy the expansions... so do the subscibers.
You know it's nice that CO's model isn't the worst in the universe but that's not convincing anyone that it has no room to improve.
For sure. But "gimme more free stuff" isn't constructive, either. The OP seems to want all the ATs for free. That's just not how the game's structured. You can get 20 ATs for free or with event currency, which is plenty. I'd be happy if they made more ATs unlockable via event currency, but what they have now in that area isn't horrible.
Also, the model is freemium, not free to play. There has to be some incentive to subscribe. There's currently very little incentive for a Silver player to sub outside of freeform builds and color customization. And they even gave away a freeform slot a while back. If they give away all the ATs, that's a lot less incentive to sub for a freeform build.
If I had to name one area I'd like to see improved, it's the questonite grind. It cold be a little less restrictive. I don't like grinding a currency then having to refine it at a set limit. On the other hand, I usually spend a few months subbed per year and use the stipends to buy stuff anyway, because I do like to give the game some money every now and then, and consider the time cards a good value.
Comments
(Filthy Silvers indeed
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Frostbiter (Freeform Ice DPS)
Battle Hazard (Unleashed AT)
Glacial Tyrant (Glacier AT)
Silver Mantra ( Freeform Single Blade DPS)
Magnetros (Freeform Heavy Weapons/Lightning Hybrid)
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Frostbiter (Freeform Ice DPS)
Battle Hazard (Unleashed AT)
Glacial Tyrant (Glacier AT)
Silver Mantra ( Freeform Single Blade DPS)
Magnetros (Freeform Heavy Weapons/Lightning Hybrid)
42 40s, LTSer.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This could potentially provide a revenue source for developing new powers. Of course, at this late stage of the game's life - it would probably be easiest to just develop a shiny new game and retire CO. Which I realize sounds like sacrilege *ducks and hides*
Yes to free or discounted first slot, 100% no to selling powersets.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Aww. They don't have a thumbsup smiley. But I agree. Never regretted my LTS.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hey, you should go check out WoW's "free to play" content. That might give you some perspective :3c
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Best entertainment money I ever spent was for the LTS for this game. I did watch for the sale (saved $100) and there is usually one around this time though CO never advertises it in advance.
Maybe you should just go try other games, maybe. Ones that you feel are the real Free To Play ones. You know ones that give more of the fair market value. Since every post so far is a complaint. If you're not having fun, feel free to move on. It's free.
And ARC is not a publisher or the creator of this game fyi. You should try to GOOGLE Cryptic or Perfect World International.
HAHAHAH! And they give too small amount of Zen also i reckon.
Good thing you can play the whole game for free.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
I always take CC powers when I level up, primarily due to my experience leveling up a full CCer. CC powers are just a lot of fun to use, and they feel more active and actiony than some of the more 'passive' solutions to problems.
Keeping mobs completely held while killing them, even in a group? That good enough for you buddy?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
There are 9 more ATs that can be unlocked through holiday/event currency. (Currently, that'd be the Icicle, which is a nice ranged DPS AT).
You can unlock every other AT by converting resources farmed in game into Zen, so don't have to crack your wallet to unlock them. If you wait for a sale, you'll have a lot less grinding to do.
If you want to pay to try some of the other ATs, you can buy a 60 day time card from Amazon for $15.99 currently. That's eight bucks a month. You get your monthly 500 zen stipend for each month, so that's a ten dollar value. You also get some additional character slots, which cost whatever. In other words, it's cheap to start with and you get other benefits that further offset the cost.
You can play every bit of content in the game without spending a dime.
The paid ATs are not significantly better than the free ones. Some are better than others in each case. I have leveled every free and most of the unlockable ATs to max level, and they are ALL perfectly playable.
If you don't like the FTP/freemium model here, you can go play SW:TOR and find out what a real money grab model is. CO's model is more than generous.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If you know of a game with a better FTP/freemium model, let me know. I like MMOs, but most of the free to play or freemium ones, especially former AAA titles, are fairly restrictive.
DDO's buy as you go model is pretty decent, similar to buying modules in old school paper DnD, but you definitely don't get as much on the free side as CO.
LOTRO is more restrictive, even for former subscribers. Not as good as CO IMO.
Rift seems OK, though I haven't played it much b/c I don't like the gloomy atmosphere.
SW:TOR is a joke.
DCUO is a joke.
Wildstar seems OK, but I haven't delved into it. I was a former paid account (preordered), so may have less restrictions than a straight free player. It's hard on my hands, though (RSIs), so I don't play it enough to have a good feel for it.
I can't think of any others off hand, except the three buy to play games I currently have installed, but they're not really FTP or freemium in the sense that the others are.
Secondly, in STO the only thing limited to subscribers are the Chimera-class heavy escort (which doesn't bother me because that thing's almost as ugly as a Breen ship), the ability to play as a Liberated Borg, and, after a certain period, a free android Bridge Officer (I think it's a Soong-type, so it's not the same as the 0718 model that comes with the Temporal Agent pack, or the one you can get from your fleet's K-13 space station). Everything else is available via either purchase or grind, and grinding Dilithium isn't as hard as grinding Q because more missions offer it, and because there's a Dilithium Mine where you can go once a day to get even more. It's not hard even for someone as incredibly casual as me to hit the Silver refining cap of 8000 Dil.
Put it this way - I've got a wide selection of character species, BOff species, and ships of every tier including 6 (the top end). And the only money I put into STO was to purchase the Temporal Agent pack, and that was just because I wanted those sweet, sweet TOS-style ship skins and didn't want to have to wait while I got all the Dil I needed for it. (Kevin Timeline currently commands USS Time Bandit, a T6 Paladin-class battlecruiser wearing a Ranger-class skin, and Tarvek is CO of USS Pike, a T6 Escort wearing the skin of a Gemini-class.)
CO's model is quite generous, but so is STO's. NW's is... less so. You can access all of the content, but it costs in-game currency if you want to, say, change the color of your clothing. Still lightyears ahead of SWTOR, or what passes for a "free-to-play" in WoW, but not as nice as Cryptic's other offerings.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Anyway the OmniBits can be spent directly in the cash shop on most things, and is an account-based currency, meaning you don't collect it on a single character, and you can't earn more by farming on lots of characters.
As far as playable content, I don't think there's anything that's locked behind a paywall.
I'm not against giving the game another try at some point. I wasn't too invested in that character, as it was still really low level. It's just that it took so long to fix, and the fix was so weird, that I lost interest in dealing with learning the basics all over again by running another character through the starter stuff. It's always in the back of my mind to give another shot though.
Thanks for the rest of the info.
Also, the model is freemium, not free to play. There has to be some incentive to subscribe. There's currently very little incentive for a Silver player to sub outside of freeform builds and color customization. And they even gave away a freeform slot a while back. If they give away all the ATs, that's a lot less incentive to sub for a freeform build.
If I had to name one area I'd like to see improved, it's the questonite grind. It cold be a little less restrictive. I don't like grinding a currency then having to refine it at a set limit. On the other hand, I usually spend a few months subbed per year and use the stipends to buy stuff anyway, because I do like to give the game some money every now and then, and consider the time cards a good value.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.