It's a case of content catering to MMO players not to superhero fans. Telling someone like John how to improve his build or how you don't have to min/max completely ignores the reasons he plays CO in the first place. It just reinforces that his character's aren't "good enough" to participate and the way he plays the game is "wrong".
Nobody told Jon that the way he's playing is wrong. The majority of the game is still the furthest thing from Eido. Also, how would telling him he doesn't have to min/max reinforce the idea that his characters aren't good enough? You're not making sense, and you're reacting to stuff that didn't happen.
Also as much as Jon wants to act like he's so different from us "eido people", at the end of the day most of us build for theme too. Maybe some day he'll realize that the "cult of numbers" he fantasizes about is just that, a fantasy. Hell some of us probably have builds so creative they make his look downright archetypal.
Many of us enjoy our concept heroes (and villains) that can do almost any content in Champs, including the Cosmics. Eidolon is top of the hill, at the moment, so Yes, it needs a better tuned character to attempt it. If you have that, bring it.
And "better tuned" doesn't mean r9 mods in full Justice/Distinguished/etc gear. I've brought chars that have the basic blue 40 primaries (some of which I feel are better than Merc gear) and purple secondaries. They do well. Some of that could be that I know the fight through all of the changes its been through. But, these characters only had r5 mods at best in them. My one caveat is that I did make sure my primary stat was 400+ and that my toggle form used it.
Ever since NemCon originally came out, I tend to put a team rez on a character doing that content. The same holds for Cosmics, TA, Eido. I may not be the best dps/tank/cc/healer, but I can usually get people back up in groups and I personally find this one of the best things I bring to these fights. You need to find your niche that works here. Which isn't as difficult as one may think.
Many of us do Eidolon frequently. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US helps anyone who shows up and is new to the fight. We want to succeed. We want you to succeed. Show up. You'll see.
.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=- "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
The point in my comment is there are quite a few people who are theme players and that if anyone wants to get those players into this kind of content, then the way it's currently being done is horribly ineffective. It's a problem with poor interpersonal communication. Trying to tell me I'm wrong or "but that's not my experience" misses the point and shows a lack of understanding.
Eido has very specific needs to run successfully. And it has less room for error by comparison (given the strict conditions and time limit) to the other cosmics. That's too much hassle for the less hardcore player, especially with how the rewards for running it are set up. On the other hand, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It's clearly for the veterans (not just anybody who hit Level 40) who enjoy the challenge of it and that's ok. What I do notice is that even the hardcore vets would usually forego it, so there's probably something that should be done to make it more worthwhile.
The point in my comment is there are quite a few people who are theme players and that if anyone wants to get those players into this kind of content, then the way it's currently being done is horribly ineffective.
If you decide that theme requires you to do something that works poorly with the game mechanics, you'll have trouble with content that is dependent on game mechanics. There isn't really a fix for that.
Pretty much everyone who shows up and is helpful has a theme. Pretty much everyone who doesn't show up has a theme. People who don't run Eido don't have a monopoly on themes. Almost everyone I've met, parsed, or done any kind of endgame with has a theme.
Having a theme vs not has nothing to do with being helpful.
Not all themes have to be helpful everywhere. That doesn't spell "THE END" for players who want to play certain content. My nerdy scientist guy who loves books is not going to tank a giant dinosaur and that's ok. I knew that when I made him.....he knows not to go off and punch giant monsters because he would die. Just like an actual nerdy scientist who loves books. Not punching dinosaurs is part of his theme.
That doesn't mean that I, as a player, am locked out of tanking giant dinosaurs. Because if I want to actually do things like punch giant monsters then I make characters who have been wanting to do that too...and training for it and acquiring the powers and means to do the things they want to do. In the case of wanting to punch dinosaurs that may mean lifting more weights and reading less books.
And yeah when the call for help goes out....it's a call for help. It's not a "we pity you, so come if you want to". It's more of a "we need your help and we really want you to come". On the receiving end as well, I'd rather be needed than pitied.
When there's a medical emergency, people call 911....not their distant cousin who they once heard wanted to be a doctor.
And theme can be effective in endgame combat. I make my FF builds (even though I'm Silver) with a specific theme and role that fits the theme, and also with the basic Cosmics in mind. I decided to do that after friends of mine, Mahoff, Blockwave, Rax, and others in Spectre and Vexx, also Foxi (Can't forget the foxi o3o) helped me to realize that MMOs (mostly CO) are based on team content. I wouldn't feel good if I came to Eido and can't pull my weight to help out in the success of a run. I would say everybody's theme can work at any Cosmic but to make a difference in them and not "be a leech" all you have to do is ask for advice with members of either Spectre (Who are really nice and kind and willing to help someone out), Behemoth King, Foxi, Mornmist or anyone in Cosmic HQ and TheEndGame. It's just a game, no need to complain about theme being bad, just ask for advice and everything will work out well.
|| Main Tank || DPSer || Healer || CCer || Altoholic || @shadowolf505 in game ||
Enh, it's also about learning what your theme can do. I made a character who was themed around manipulating multiple elements of nature.... it turns out she's a good enough OT to soak tank dinomom or Ape....
It's a case of content catering to MMO players not to superhero fans. Telling someone like John how to improve his build or how you don't have to min/max completely ignores the reasons he plays CO in the first place. It just reinforces that his character's aren't "good enough" to participate and the way he plays the game is "wrong".
Nobody told Jon that the way he's playing is wrong.
In point of fact, Spinny, you're very, very far off-base here. Hell, look at all the things you yourself have been saying about having the "right" roles and running parsers to make sure you're doing the necessary DPS and building with the "right" powers and whatnot. And you're not as hardcore as some folks about that. I used to try that sort of content, but was quickly discouraged because I wasn't "doing it right". And reading Zone, say in MI, while other people are monster-hunting does little to persuade me that matters have improved significantly.
I'd rather just play through the regular content, which is fun for me, with the builds I want to try out. (Staredown is being more fun to play than I anticipated, although for some reason Baron Whatshisface, the reanimator dude in the Queen City arc, took me three tries to take down. He's not usually that much tougher than the big zombies that summon more zombies - Hell-something-or-others.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Wow, so people are still trying to argue with me even after I said arguing with me misses the point.
The only thing this thread has convinced me of is that I don't want to run content with people who are obsessed with telling me they are right and arguing with me. FFS, I wasn't making an argument, I was trying to help you solve your problem by shedding light on other people's perception so that this conversation would actually go somewhere.
Stop trying to answer "how can I convince these people that they're wrong" and instead try to answer "how can I convince people they should help me solve my problem".
Or maybe I'm wrong and the point of this thread isn't to convince more people to join in on Eidolon but to just complain that people aren't joining and to take comfort in always being right.
See, you keep doing this thing where you waffle between "the design of the content prevents me from participating" and "I choose not to do the content". I think you're being more honest with the latter, so you should just stick to that. Instead of showing up in threads like these and trying to argue that "I like to build themes and the content doesn't allow that", which is complete BS that gets debunked daily, just show up and say "There is nothing design-wise that prevents me from participating in this content. The only thing stopping me is my own choices". We'll give you a "Thanks for stopping by" and everything will be right with the world.
In point of fact, Spinny, you're very, very far off-base here. Hell, look at all the things you yourself have been saying about having the "right" roles and running parsers to make sure you're doing the necessary DPS and building with the "right" powers and whatnot. And you're not as hardcore as some folks about that. I used to try that sort of content, but was quickly discouraged because I wasn't "doing it right". And reading Zone, say in MI, while other people are monster-hunting does little to persuade me that matters have improved significantly.
It's so clear that you're just choosing not to participate because you don't like team content, so why do you even join the conversation? There's literally nothing anyone could do to get you to come to Eido other than converting it into leveling missions, so what are you hoping to get out of this? I mean sure you have a right to talk in the thread like anyone else, it just seems so pointless.
I get confused when codes are thrown out there. DPC LI QZR ... PLF ... WHT?! .... you get the point lol. The few I have tried I was unprepared and under geared IMHO so having some heads up could be cool. I noticed some vets have started teaching new players in a constructive way. That's very cool IMHO.
My lvl 40 champs in random order.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
What's the point of this thread? Is it to get more folks to do Eido? Or just to complain?
I think the larger question is do we want more folks doing Eido? If the answer is yes, I think we need to go from there.
I would start with the following (which many vets are doing or have been doing in this thread and in game):
1. Keep pointing people to guides on the forums and videos on the forums that they can look at to give them the basic idea of how Eido is being run. 2. Keep pointing out the channel where folks should listen to the call out. 3. Keep pointing out that if folks want to participate in the OMs beforehand it's not guaranteed that they will be able to. And that's okay, as it makes unlocking Eido for the community easier. 4. Keep pointing out that Eido isn't like other cosmics, and has a higher bar than "just show up". This is fine. 5. Keep pointing out guides on the forums for those who want to tweak their builds as necessary. 6. Keep pointing out it may not be necessary to tweak your build at all, depending at one point you joing the encounter: OMs vs Eido encounter itself.
Maybe having a specific thread for new players to post builds that they are thinking of bringing to Eido? Probably would need to include some info on amounts in super stats and gear/mods being used. Maybe also what role(s) they hope to fill. If people feel more confident that their builds are likely up to snuff it would encourage them to join in?
Maybe having a regular time each week for OM training runs? I've heard that sometimes vets do these things, but I think I've only ever heard of one, but it was just as I had to go to bed. If it were at a regularly scheduled, forum-posted and in-game-noted time then new players might be better able to plan to attend.
BTW how many char slots F2P players can get? I want to support them somehow to see the true endgames.
Two for free; additional slots are 1400Z for two.
Then ppl must get DPS at first to enjoy everything free! @3@
I wouldn't even say they'd have to do that. Aside from subbing for a month or two, I didn't spend any money on CO until I went LTS, and by the time I did, I already had a bunch of character slots, some costumes sets, extra costume slots for all my characters, and a couple premium ATs unlocked. Granted, this was at a time when Zen was far cheaper on the exchange, but it was also a lot more difficult to build up a large amount of questionite at the same time since there weren't as many ways to earn Q, and the ways you could get it didn't award nearly as much.
I think F2Pers can refine 8k a day, so just doing Kiga and Ape on each toon will cap their Q with some left over every day, and neither of those requires someone have especially high DPS. It's just a matter of knowing when to block. If they're diligent in that, they'll have enough Zen to unlock more slots, premium ATs, or possibly a freeform slot, before too long.
Now, if they want to do everything in the game on their very first character, then yeah. They should probably make a DPS.
Aside from when Vexx was doing a teaching run for Eido that I couldn't take part in, I've never come across anyone calling for people to come do Eido, and I actually do missions in QWZ fairly often. I must be on at the wrong time because I almost never see anyone out there either.
If you're looking for the callout in zone chat then you're looking in the wrong place. Join the channel "Cosmic HQ", that's where the callouts happen. It's a public channel so you don't need an invite.
I'm in that channel, but musta been playing at the wrong time of day. I've been to a couple runs since making that post.
Eidolon is not a good place to test out your new builds. It would be better to start at the other three cosmics, and after you are doing well at all those you can try Eidolon.
What's the point of this thread? Is it to get more folks to do Eido? Or just to complain?
I think the OP made it with the idea to get more people to do Eido. The thread was also made at a time when we had a bunch of great events all happening in a row. Now that it's just Nighthawk, we've been at 3-5 Eido runs per day. There's no desperate need for more.
I think the larger question is do we want more folks doing Eido? If the answer is yes, I think we need to go from there.
Once a run is announced the zone usually fills up really fast and it's actually tough to get back in if your client crashes. Do we want help from people who don't want to be helpful? No. Do we want more people who want to be helpful in the fight? Always nice to have more and plenty already show up.
Why? Because the build information is there. The guides to the fights are there. The helpful channel mods are there. The frequent pretty-much-daily runs are there. Anyone who wants to participate in the fight can do so. This isn't some theory. It's happening. New people already join the fight. People much newer to the game than anyone else in this thread come with their theme builds, learn the fight, and then do really well.
Doing something generally takes ability, information, and incentive. Everyone has the ability....this isn't the Olympics, it's CO. Information is widely accessible and promoted so everyone can get at that as well. All that's left is incentive and people who want to fight Eido have that by definition.
People who don't want to fight Eido, don't have incentive and that is totally ok. Nobody is interested in bending over backwards to bring in more people who don't want to be there.
This whole line about "I want to but I can't because theme" is totally off. You can. The 30 other people who are already doing it on their themed builds are not geniuses. If you really want to fight Eido then make a character who also really wants to. Given the evidence of how many other themed characters fight him on consistent basis there's nothing stopping you but you.
Maybe having a specific thread for new players to post builds that they are thinking of bringing to Eido? Probably would need to include some info on amounts in super stats and gear/mods being used. Maybe also what role(s) they hope to fill. If people feel more confident that their builds are likely up to snuff it would encourage them to join in?
Maybe having a regular time each week for OM training runs? I've heard that sometimes vets do these things, but I think I've only ever heard of one, but it was just as I had to go to bed. If it were at a regularly scheduled, forum-posted and in-game-noted time then new players might be better able to plan to attend.
Why don't you schedule some and do them? Then you'll be at every single one.
I was just responding to the topic of the thread by offering ideas of what might help induce people to go to Eido. If the ideas are without merit, or no one wants to follow up on them, that is also fine.
I was just responding to the topic of the thread by offering ideas of what might help induce people to go to Eido. If the ideas are without merit, or no one wants to follow up on them, that is also fine.
If no one wants to follow up on your ideas....including you? I'm assuming that at the very least 1 person wants to follow up on their own ideas. But if you're saying, "my ideas are not good enough for me to follow up on them" well yeah that is totally fine.
The idea of a "Is my build good enough for Eido?" thread doesn't really seem necessary to me. The actual build requirements for Eido are very slim. Can your tank tank the other cosmics? Then you can tank Eido. Can your healer heal other cosmics? Then you can heal Eido. Does your dps win at Dino? Then you can dps Eido.
That last one especially ( the one the callouts are for ) has the slimmest of build requirements. You could not even fill out most of your power slots and be an Eido-qualified dps. So "Eido builds" aren't a separate category that need their own thread. In fact, making such a thread might only reinforce the false notion that participating at Eido is all about your build and that you need a special build for Eido. All anyone really needs is the guides that have been provided - these give you the skeleton of a good build, and will leave you plenty of room to fill with your own creativity and uniqueness.
As for scheduled training runs, that could be a thing. They'll probably run into the same issue I ran into when scheduling those PTS testing events, in that any time you post will be met with many people saying "I can't make it then". Would be helpful for people who for whatever reason have limited time to play though I'm sure. Now the remaining question is, who's gonna do it?
Maybe having a specific thread for new players to post builds that they are thinking of bringing to Eido?
There isn't much to it. For a dps, if you're using an offensive role, an offensive passive, and a decent attack power you'll be fine. The endgame dps build guide lists a bunch of standard setups, but there are a lot of adequate powers.
correct me if i'm wrong, but...if you're in an offensive role, an offensive passive is the only thing you CAN use to begin with, so saying that seems rather redundant
correct me if i'm wrong, but...if you're in an offensive role, an offensive passive is the only thing you CAN use to begin with, so saying that seems rather redundant
Yes, we know it's redundant, and that's why we say it
correct me if i'm wrong, but...if you're in an offensive role, an offensive passive is the only thing you CAN use to begin with, so saying that seems rather redundant
Yes, but people regularly manage to think they're dps when running in hybrid role with a defensive passive (you can achieve significant dps like that, but the offensive build should still be at least 40% higher).
I was just responding to the topic of the thread by offering ideas of what might help induce people to go to Eido. If the ideas are without merit, or no one wants to follow up on them, that is also fine.
If no one wants to follow up on your ideas....including you? I'm assuming that at the very least 1 person wants to follow up on their own ideas. But if you're saying, "my ideas are not good enough for me to follow up on them" well yeah that is totally fine.
and how does one learn how to teach? one studies up on existing material, then passes it on - and the material is here, ingame (via direct observation/participation) and probably on youtube...though i don't know how many of the kiga/ape/dino fight videos on there are recent; i know there are tons of recent eido ones
I've tried to take kiga/ape/dino fight video but... There are no movement and it is easier to learn from forums rather then from video just hitting kiga& ape's hip, dino's stomach from similar place every time.
I've done 22th successful run just today on Eido but still have several points for myself to study from video I took by myself. Such like 'I should have move like this', 'Ah I didn't notice team mate down at there' or 'I shouldn't stand at such place' etc... Ether succeed or fail, both are important for me myself about Eido. I can take a look how Tank are taking and changing position when, or DPS move how during orbs or geyser. Though I have to imagine how CCer is moving because I can't see everything happening at same time.
I've tried to take kiga/ape/dino fight video but... There are no movement and it is easier to learn from forums rather then from video just hitting kiga& ape's hip, dino's stomach from similar place every time.
I've done 22th successful run just today on Eido but still have several points for myself to study from video I took by myself. Such like 'I should have move like this', 'Ah I didn't notice team mate down at there' or 'I shouldn't stand at such place' etc... Ether succeed or fail, both are important for me myself about Eido. I can take a look how Tank are taking and changing position when, or DPS move how during orbs or geyser. Though I have to imagine how CCer is moving because I can't see everything happening at same time.
But as Eido is difficult, Eido is fun. o3o
See, this is where you lose me. There are people who've been begging for elite-style content in CO for years. Well, now you've got it - a zone oriented toward that playstyle, with a boss-fight that is exactly that, where you have to beat several other bosses within a time limit just to see him.
I'm happy for you. Enjoy that actually-hard content! Play the frak out of it, now that it's finally here!
But why would you want to drag into it all those people who get blamed for "dumbing down" the rest of the game? Wouldn't that result in your elite content being made, well, no longer elite?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I mean, we don’t want to drag them to Eido, we want to break that mentality of « elite « content, It’s a fight where you can’t just press down 1-2 in the back of a boss until the end, but it’s not super super hard, some good cosmetics and rewards are locked behind Eido, just giving a chance to the « non-elite » players to get to these rewards.
If they don’t want to come because they don’t like that type of content, we can’t force them to come, but if they are afraid of not being useful, or not brining somehing to the fight, they shouldn’t, it’s like people saying that TA is super hard, it’s not, you just need to listen and learn.
See, this is where you lose me. There are people who've been begging for elite-style content in CO for years. Well, now you've got it - a zone oriented toward that playstyle, with a boss-fight that is exactly that, where you have to beat several other bosses within a time limit just to see him.
I'm happy for you. Enjoy that actually-hard content! Play the frak out of it, now that it's finally here!
But why would you want to drag into it all those people who get blamed for "dumbing down" the rest of the game? Wouldn't that result in your elite content being made, well, no longer elite?
Elite is a pretty loaded term that nobody likes. No one wanted elite content and no one wants it to be or stay elite. Lets instead use more descriptive terms like "difficult" and "exclusive".
What people wanted for years, and got, was difficult content. Overcoming difficult content is fun for a lot of people. For way more people than the term "elite" implies. Because that term attaches an arbitrary level of exclusivity to whatever it describes.
No one wants content that's exclusive just to be exclusive and feel special...pretty much everyone will say that's just gross. That is the tension that you're pointing out.
What people want are challenges that give them a sense of accomplishment. One of those is here in the form of the Eido fight and the points being made are that this challenge is not exclusive in any significant way if you really want to take it on.
And then theres people like me who would love to do cosmics more often if they were well designed fun challenges instead of more of the same bad mechanics the rest of the game uses.
So why are you doing badly designed non-fun challenges at all? I saw you in yesterday's video of an Eido run.
That's definitely evidence of you playing those other better designed games and your continued posts here are definitely showing us that you post more on those other game's forums. But I don't think you're posting and playing enough.
I think if you posted more about how much you hate CO it'd be more convincing. Try 10 times a day instead of just 5.
If I knew the fight better to advise/teach people I would, but the blind leading the blind is not usually a good idea.
How much better would you have to know the fight? You've definitely been at enough of them to teach people the basics if not more...that's all they will be able to learn on their first few runs anyway.
But why would you want to drag into it all those people who get blamed for "dumbing down" the rest of the game? Wouldn't that result in your elite content being made, well, no longer elite?
It really depends on what you mean by "elite". It's been made clear that that term means wildly different things to different people, so before this can be answered you would need to be more specific about what you mean when you're using the word. I know that I for one never used the phrase "elite-style content" when asking for new content, but Eido and QWZ in general is definitely the kind of content that I've asked for.
As has been mentioned in the thread however, it turns out that the problem was something that was mentioned very early in the thread: events that people are actually interested in make other content less active. Now that those events are over we're back to defeating Eido multiple times per day - in fact we're farming him more than ever. So, the whole "we need more people to show up" thing is pretty much over and we're back to "show up if you want. if you don't want to, we don't really care".
Us "Elites" are happy to welcome anyone who wants to show up, and we're happy to help them in any way they need, but never has there been any effort to "drag" anyone anywhere. When you see us dispelling myths about "it requires specific builds only!" and "it's super duper hard!", that's not us trying to convince people to show up, that's us fighting false information that might make people not bother who otherwise would be interested. Beyond that, people will have to convince themselves to show up. You only want content where you can do whatever and still always win? Great, the game's full of it, enjoy!
I can take a look how Tank are taking and changing position when, or DPS move how during orbs or geyser. Though I have to imagine how CCer is moving because I can't see everything happening at same time.
I notice that in your videos, you are very zoomed in. If you want to record and later watch everyone move, I suggest zooming out as far back as possible....I think 70ft is the max available in settings?
If you want to go even farther you could bind a key to zoom out as much as you want. Personally I like 110ft. /bind f12 camdist 110
Setting this bind will make pressing "f12" zoom the camera out by 110ft. Sometimes the camera doesn't stick and zooms back in shortly. Pressing the key a few times usually fixes that.
I've tried to take kiga/ape/dino fight video but... There are no movement and it is easier to learn from forums rather then from video just hitting kiga& ape's hip, dino's stomach from similar place every time.
I've done 22th successful run just today on Eido but still have several points for myself to study from video I took by myself. Such like 'I should have move like this', 'Ah I didn't notice team mate down at there' or 'I shouldn't stand at such place' etc... Ether succeed or fail, both are important for me myself about Eido. I can take a look how Tank are taking and changing position when, or DPS move how during orbs or geyser. Though I have to imagine how CCer is moving because I can't see everything happening at same time.
To be honest... I find exploring the Champions world to be more fun than fighting giant monsters.... but there's all these enemy things that get between me and the stuff I'm exploring.... Soo... FACE SMASH!
yesterday. i heard a new person being told they should get a minimum of mercenery and heroics gear before doing any cosmics. I told them i started in mission gear and tanks mainly needed the better gear. they then said healers did too. i linked my healers mixed blue stuff from the ah house and said "that my healers gear, off to do kiga now." the new person came too. it wasn't a great run but the new one had a healer and did well. then they came to their first ape run,i gave a breif explanation and they just ran it. no probs. the run was definitely not a good one but we made it. before i logged, i told them the respawn was every 4hrs, when they asked if this gets done each day and to join the cosmic channel and check the forums for info
they weren't going because people were saying you needed certain gear to do the comics.
you don't. give instructions on what to look for and encourage them to try it. tell them it gets better with practice. and don't worry about dying a few times.
yesterday. i heard a new person being told they should get a minimum of mercenery and heroics gear before doing any cosmics.
yeah...you just slap that idiot upside the head
i've been branching out on different characters to see how they fare at cosmics, and one of them - Papa Kayiman - is still wearing the sorcery leveling gear set they released around the same time they redid sorcery...and i get SIGNIFICANTLY higher score on that character than any of the others who are wearing all heroic, or even my main who is wearing a mix of heroic/ legion primary and onslaught ranged offense with cosmic defense/utility secondaries
so i can personally confirm needing merc gear or higher before starting cosmics is pure horse hockey
they weren't going because people were saying you needed certain gear to do the comics.
And this is why it is so very important for us to be fighting this misinformation at every single turn.
I blame the demented people that spout made up maths when you ask a simple build question. You ask a question about the difference between rank 6 and rank 7 and they start spouting off about *&^%ing string theory.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Comments
Also, how would telling him he doesn't have to min/max reinforce the idea that his characters aren't good enough?
You're not making sense, and you're reacting to stuff that didn't happen.
Also as much as Jon wants to act like he's so different from us "eido people", at the end of the day most of us build for theme too. Maybe some day he'll realize that the "cult of numbers" he fantasizes about is just that, a fantasy. Hell some of us probably have builds so creative they make his look downright archetypal.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And "better tuned" doesn't mean r9 mods in full Justice/Distinguished/etc gear. I've brought chars that have the basic blue 40 primaries (some of which I feel are better than Merc gear) and purple secondaries. They do well. Some of that could be that I know the fight through all of the changes its been through. But, these characters only had r5 mods at best in them. My one caveat is that I did make sure my primary stat was 400+ and that my toggle form used it.
Ever since NemCon originally came out, I tend to put a team rez on a character doing that content. The same holds for Cosmics, TA, Eido. I may not be the best dps/tank/cc/healer, but I can usually get people back up in groups and I personally find this one of the best things I bring to these fights. You need to find your niche that works here. Which isn't as difficult as one may think.
Many of us do Eidolon frequently. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US helps anyone who shows up and is new to the fight. We want to succeed. We want you to succeed. Show up. You'll see.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Having a theme vs not has nothing to do with being helpful.
Not all themes have to be helpful everywhere. That doesn't spell "THE END" for players who want to play certain content. My nerdy scientist guy who loves books is not going to tank a giant dinosaur and that's ok. I knew that when I made him.....he knows not to go off and punch giant monsters because he would die. Just like an actual nerdy scientist who loves books. Not punching dinosaurs is part of his theme.
That doesn't mean that I, as a player, am locked out of tanking giant dinosaurs. Because if I want to actually do things like punch giant monsters then I make characters who have been wanting to do that too...and training for it and acquiring the powers and means to do the things they want to do. In the case of wanting to punch dinosaurs that may mean lifting more weights and reading less books.
And yeah when the call for help goes out....it's a call for help. It's not a "we pity you, so come if you want to". It's more of a "we need your help and we really want you to come". On the receiving end as well, I'd rather be needed than pitied.
When there's a medical emergency, people call 911....not their distant cousin who they once heard wanted to be a doctor.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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My characters
I'd rather just play through the regular content, which is fun for me, with the builds I want to try out. (Staredown is being more fun to play than I anticipated, although for some reason Baron Whatshisface, the reanimator dude in the Queen City arc, took me three tries to take down. He's not usually that much tougher than the big zombies that summon more zombies - Hell-something-or-others.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The only thing this thread has convinced me of is that I don't want to run content with people who are obsessed with telling me they are right and arguing with me. FFS, I wasn't making an argument, I was trying to help you solve your problem by shedding light on other people's perception so that this conversation would actually go somewhere.
Stop trying to answer "how can I convince these people that they're wrong" and instead try to answer "how can I convince people they should help me solve my problem".
Or maybe I'm wrong and the point of this thread isn't to convince more people to join in on Eidolon but to just complain that people aren't joining and to take comfort in always being right.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
=Pieces of Stuff=Knock Dead=Cruel Yule=Cremator=Toys from the Attic=
=Gnosis Arcanum=Twenty Seven=Kama D=Critic=Creep Freeze=
=Mangled Man=G.I. John Doe=2D.=Lung the punch drunk monk=
=By the sword=Scild Truma=Shadow Puppet=Lu-7=Erysichthon=
=Nimravid=Buzzard Kill=Lorenzini=Schema=
I think the larger question is do we want more folks doing Eido? If the answer is yes, I think we need to go from there.
I would start with the following (which many vets are doing or have been doing in this thread and in game):
1. Keep pointing people to guides on the forums and videos on the forums that they can look at to give them the basic idea of how Eido is being run.
2. Keep pointing out the channel where folks should listen to the call out.
3. Keep pointing out that if folks want to participate in the OMs beforehand it's not guaranteed that they will be able to. And that's okay, as it makes unlocking Eido for the community easier.
4. Keep pointing out that Eido isn't like other cosmics, and has a higher bar than "just show up". This is fine.
5. Keep pointing out guides on the forums for those who want to tweak their builds as necessary.
6. Keep pointing out it may not be necessary to tweak your build at all, depending at one point you joing the encounter: OMs vs Eido encounter itself.
That's pretty much all that can be done.
Maybe having a regular time each week for OM training runs? I've heard that sometimes vets do these things, but I think I've only ever heard of one, but it was just as I had to go to bed. If it were at a regularly scheduled, forum-posted and in-game-noted time then new players might be better able to plan to attend.
I think F2Pers can refine 8k a day, so just doing Kiga and Ape on each toon will cap their Q with some left over every day, and neither of those requires someone have especially high DPS. It's just a matter of knowing when to block. If they're diligent in that, they'll have enough Zen to unlock more slots, premium ATs, or possibly a freeform slot, before too long.
Now, if they want to do everything in the game on their very first character, then yeah. They should probably make a DPS.
Why? Because the build information is there. The guides to the fights are there. The helpful channel mods are there. The frequent pretty-much-daily runs are there. Anyone who wants to participate in the fight can do so. This isn't some theory. It's happening. New people already join the fight. People much newer to the game than anyone else in this thread come with their theme builds, learn the fight, and then do really well.
Doing something generally takes ability, information, and incentive. Everyone has the ability....this isn't the Olympics, it's CO. Information is widely accessible and promoted so everyone can get at that as well. All that's left is incentive and people who want to fight Eido have that by definition.
People who don't want to fight Eido, don't have incentive and that is totally ok. Nobody is interested in bending over backwards to bring in more people who don't want to be there.
This whole line about "I want to but I can't because theme" is totally off. You can. The 30 other people who are already doing it on their themed builds are not geniuses. If you really want to fight Eido then make a character who also really wants to. Given the evidence of how many other themed characters fight him on consistent basis there's nothing stopping you but you.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Can your tank tank the other cosmics? Then you can tank Eido.
Can your healer heal other cosmics? Then you can heal Eido.
Does your dps win at Dino? Then you can dps Eido.
That last one especially ( the one the callouts are for ) has the slimmest of build requirements. You could not even fill out most of your power slots and be an Eido-qualified dps. So "Eido builds" aren't a separate category that need their own thread. In fact, making such a thread might only reinforce the false notion that participating at Eido is all about your build and that you need a special build for Eido. All anyone really needs is the guides that have been provided - these give you the skeleton of a good build, and will leave you plenty of room to fill with your own creativity and uniqueness.
As for scheduled training runs, that could be a thing. They'll probably run into the same issue I ran into when scheduling those PTS testing events, in that any time you post will be met with many people saying "I can't make it then". Would be helpful for people who for whatever reason have limited time to play though I'm sure. Now the remaining question is, who's gonna do it?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I've done 22th successful run just today on Eido but still have several points for myself to study from video I took by myself. Such like 'I should have move like this', 'Ah I didn't notice team mate down at there' or 'I shouldn't stand at such place' etc... Ether succeed or fail, both are important for me myself about Eido.
I can take a look how Tank are taking and changing position when, or DPS move how during orbs or geyser. Though I have to imagine how CCer is moving because I can't see everything happening at same time.
But as Eido is difficult, Eido is fun. o3o
I'm happy for you. Enjoy that actually-hard content! Play the frak out of it, now that it's finally here!
But why would you want to drag into it all those people who get blamed for "dumbing down" the rest of the game? Wouldn't that result in your elite content being made, well, no longer elite?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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If they don’t want to come because they don’t like that type of content, we can’t force them to come, but if they are afraid of not being useful, or not brining somehing to the fight, they shouldn’t, it’s like people saying that TA is super hard, it’s not, you just need to listen and learn.
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
What people wanted for years, and got, was difficult content. Overcoming difficult content is fun for a lot of people. For way more people than the term "elite" implies. Because that term attaches an arbitrary level of exclusivity to whatever it describes.
No one wants content that's exclusive just to be exclusive and feel special...pretty much everyone will say that's just gross. That is the tension that you're pointing out.
What people want are challenges that give them a sense of accomplishment. One of those is here in the form of the Eido fight and the points being made are that this challenge is not exclusive in any significant way if you really want to take it on.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
That's definitely evidence of you playing those other better designed games and your continued posts here are definitely showing us that you post more on those other game's forums. But I don't think you're posting and playing enough.
I think if you posted more about how much you hate CO it'd be more convincing. Try 10 times a day instead of just 5.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
As has been mentioned in the thread however, it turns out that the problem was something that was mentioned very early in the thread: events that people are actually interested in make other content less active. Now that those events are over we're back to defeating Eido multiple times per day - in fact we're farming him more than ever. So, the whole "we need more people to show up" thing is pretty much over and we're back to "show up if you want. if you don't want to, we don't really care".
Us "Elites" are happy to welcome anyone who wants to show up, and we're happy to help them in any way they need, but never has there been any effort to "drag" anyone anywhere. When you see us dispelling myths about "it requires specific builds only!" and "it's super duper hard!", that's not us trying to convince people to show up, that's us fighting false information that might make people not bother who otherwise would be interested. Beyond that, people will have to convince themselves to show up. You only want content where you can do whatever and still always win? Great, the game's full of it, enjoy!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If you want to go even farther you could bind a key to zoom out as much as you want. Personally I like 110ft.
/bind f12 camdist 110
Setting this bind will make pressing "f12" zoom the camera out by 110ft. Sometimes the camera doesn't stick and zooms back in shortly. Pressing the key a few times usually fixes that.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
they then said healers did too. i linked my healers mixed blue stuff from the ah house and said "that my healers gear, off to do kiga now."
the new person came too. it wasn't a great run but the new one had a healer and did well. then they came to their first ape run,i gave a breif explanation and they just ran it. no probs.
the run was definitely not a good one but we made it.
before i logged, i told them the respawn was every 4hrs, when they asked if this gets done each day and to join the cosmic channel and check the forums for info
they weren't going because people were saying you needed certain gear to do the comics.
you don't.
give instructions on what to look for and encourage them to try it.
tell them it gets better with practice.
and don't worry about dying a few times.
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My characters
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
yeah...you just slap that idiot upside the head
i've been branching out on different characters to see how they fare at cosmics, and one of them - Papa Kayiman - is still wearing the sorcery leveling gear set they released around the same time they redid sorcery...and i get SIGNIFICANTLY higher score on that character than any of the others who are wearing all heroic, or even my main who is wearing a mix of heroic/ legion primary and onslaught ranged offense with cosmic defense/utility secondaries
so i can personally confirm needing merc gear or higher before starting cosmics is pure horse hockey
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
r6 feel normal
r7 feel good
r8 bit unsatisfied
r9 feel well
o3o
r9 self reflection
My super cool CC build and how to use it.