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Gearing Up...and Down

Random drops and mission rewards are about as old as MMORPGs are. In Champions Online, however, it is possible to get to level 30 and still have pathetic gear and stats, which I find a bit unusual.

Now, if you have one of those gear sets you can get that level with you, you won't have this problem. If you are silver and aren't able to spend a lot of real-world money (or don't know the tricks), you're stuck with whatever drops randomly along with the few static gear rewards from selected missions.

Don't read me wrong: I do alright on most of my characters. However, I often find that the mission rewards (which never change) don't match my super stats at all; rarely do I find one that has two of them, usually it's either none of the three or one combined with an off-stat. And I have reached level 30 and still had less than 100 in all three super stats.

So unless you have certain stats, the missions rewards are often useless. And unless you're lucky, random drops can be even worse. Add to that that some gear for whatever reason has only one stat that's less than on gear from 5 levels ago, and you get a few good pieces of gear in a sea of worthlessness.

I enjoy CO a lot, but the leveling gear system isn't great. With so few mission reward gear choices, you'd think you could choose something that fit your character rather than some static choice that fix only certain AT's and random freeforms. It would really be nice if the leveling gear system was reworked to be more useful.
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    The original leveling gear is Nemesis gear, which cannot be bought with Gs or Zen. It's earned in game.

    You can get leveling gear with low amounts of Q, too.

    That being said, having slotted gear as mission rewards would go a long way to fix this issue. One of the first missions gives a level 7 or 8 slotted secondary, I think. More of this, please.
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    There are plenty of good gear drops post level 35; Monster Island, Lemuria and Vibora Bay missions can all offer you gear with stats better than Merc or Heroic Gear of the same level. But I would agree that there is insufficient reward for completing the lower level mission arcs; the Canadian or Desert Crises should be opportunities for lower level players to re-gear themselves for new challenges, and there are plenty of good missions arcs in the 20s and low 30s which should be incentivised with high quality gear drops (Canada/Project Awakening, Desert/Talisman, Fallout and Stronghold/Menton, to name a few). I guess they're hoping to flog Zen Store gear and lockboxes instead...
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User



    That being said, having slotted gear as mission rewards would go a long way to fix this issue. One of the first missions gives a level 7 or 8 slotted secondary, I think. More of this, please.

    We didn't all miss the point. Low level slotted gear would be an easy solution.
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind if everyone just got a full set of basic leveling gear in that first gear pack. Maybe something that buffs all 3 stats equally with no special addons. There would still be a reason to pick up any of the other leveling gear, but newer players don't get screwed trying to play the game. It would also be simpler than redoing tons of gear for 100s of missions.​​
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  • blockwaveblockwave Posts: 329 Arc User
    I don't know, the Until vendor offers green gear boxes for your level, 15 until rec a piece, if you are doing quests, 15 until doesn't take much time to get. I use heirloom so I can't tell if the stats match yours.

  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    "Useless" is in the eye of the beholder. Just because,say, Recovery isn't a focus for my toon, doesn't necessarily mean that a small bump in the stat would be entirely unwelcome...
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  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User

    The original leveling gear is Nemesis gear, which cannot be bought with Gs or Zen. It's earned in game.

    You can get leveling gear with low amounts of Q, too.

    That being said, having slotted gear as mission rewards would go a long way to fix this issue. One of the first missions gives a level 7 or 8 slotted secondary, I think. More of this, please.

    I know it's because of how I play--usually solo--but I don't know how to get Nemesis gear. If that requires a Nemesis, I lost interest in that a long time ago. Since I solo so much, I don't really have questionite, either.

    Slots are nice, but that's the only slotted secondary gear reward drop in the game that I know of; it doesn't make basic gear match what you can otherwise get by itself.

    As someone else said, higher-level random drops are more flexible; the two-slot gear has only one stat, but you can mod it for the other. The no-slot and one-slot gear is more hit-and-miss.

    At any rate, thanks for mentioning this, I'll try looking into other gear sources.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User
    sterga said:

    I wouldn't mind if everyone just got a full set of basic leveling gear in that first gear pack. Maybe something that buffs all 3 stats equally with no special addons. There would still be a reason to pick up any of the other leveling gear, but newer players don't get screwed trying to play the game. It would also be simpler than redoing tons of gear for 100s of missions.​​

    I'd be okay with making my own gear, if they could put in a reasonable system. I certainly have a mountain of stored mods I'm not currently using (mostly R1-R5, some higher).
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User
    blockwave said:

    I don't know, the Until vendor offers green gear boxes for your level, 15 until rec a piece, if you are doing quests, 15 until doesn't take much time to get. I use heirloom so I can't tell if the stats match yours.

    I have tried this, but as I recall, that stuff is still random, which doesn't fix the issue. If I'm wrong, say so, please.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User
    jonsills said:

    "Useless" is in the eye of the beholder. Just because,say, Recovery isn't a focus for my toon, doesn't necessarily mean that a small bump in the stat would be entirely unwelcome...

    I often use Recovery as a "tertiary" stat myself. Never hurts to have a little more.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User
    Don't read me wrong on this. I'm not saying this is the Worst Problem Ever Encountered in a Video Game...there are likely many games I have not played which make this look minor indeed. I really enjoy CO, I'm just a little frustrated with what I see as an overly-random system. Also, more recent MMO's have adopted the habit of allowing you to earn the same stuff in different ways. I've stated before I think stuff like questionite should be earned from all aspect of the game, not just certain alerts. I wouldn't care if it was considerably slower as long as it wasn't unfairly so. Of course, I don't expect Cryptic to change the game just for me, it's just I don't know what I'm missing being such an in-game loner.
  • blockwaveblockwave Posts: 329 Arc User
    I will test the until gear and tell you if it's working or not

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    jonsills said:

    "Useless" is in the eye of the beholder. Just because,say, Recovery isn't a focus for my toon, doesn't necessarily mean that a small bump in the stat would be entirely unwelcome...

    And as an example, the Fallout mission in the Desert gives gear choices of Int, Dex and Str. At least one of which will be useful.

    It is also slotted, but since it doesn't have a proper level, any mods you put in it will behave as if they're rank 1.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User

    blockwave said:

    I don't know, the Until vendor offers green gear boxes for your level, 15 until rec a piece, if you are doing quests, 15 until doesn't take much time to get. I use heirloom so I can't tell if the stats match yours.

    I have tried this, but as I recall, that stuff is still random, which doesn't fix the issue. If I'm wrong, say so, please.
    The point is that it's so cheap you can buy multiples until you get one you like.
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited April 2017



    I know it's because of how I play--usually solo--but I don't know how to get Nemesis gear. If that requires a Nemesis, I lost interest in that a long time ago. Since I solo so much, I don't really have questionite, either.

    You get Nemesis tokens by completing Nemesis missions. All of them, except for NemCon, are solo missions. You can queue for NemCon, much like special alerts.

    To do Nemesis missions:

    1. Reach level 25
    2. Talk to MCPD Captain Martin at the police station north of City Hall.
    3. Make a Nemesis and complete the first mission (it is in the museum right near the police station).
    4. Fight nemesis minions and get clues that give you new missions. You can receive one such mission up to every 6 hours real time (including time when logged off).
    5. Nem missions have a chance of spawning when you grab a glowy boost (red, green, blue, yellow, or white balls that drop from enemies/objects): there is a low chance if the boost drops from and enemy, but a 100% chance if dropped from an object.
    6. You can also fight your Nemesis in the Lava Temple, inside of the Monster Island volcano (not Andrith ruins, but the smaller, and easier Lava Temple). Your Nemesis will appear about 20% of the time, and you can just leave and re-enter until the Nemesis appears.
    7. You get only a small amount of tokens for each mission, and will only have enough for 1 piece of gear (maybe 2) after completing an entire run of nemesis missions, ending with Deathray Demolition.
    8. The next run of Nemesis missions (which allow you to make a second Nem) award more tokens, the third awards more, etc. For toons that have completed three or four complete Nemesis runs, you can bank enough tokens to get an entire Nem gear set very quickly.
    9. Nemesis gear can be stored in shared bank (hideout) and shared among toons.
    10. There Nemesis primaries and secondaries, and a set of secondaries can also have one of three auras for the eyes . . . or no aura (your choice).

    Hope that helps.

    I used Nemesis gear for leveling for years, and I was a solo player for a long time. Even just one set is super helpful, because you can easily swap it between toons.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    NOTE: queueing NemCon requires level 40.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,543 Arc User
    Eh, the game is easy enough that leveling with the existing lackluster drops is no real problem.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    Yeah, I've never really understood why people like heirloom stuff. Pure +SS gear is bleh. Especially with no sockets.
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    Yeah, I've never really understood why people like heirloom stuff. Pure +SS gear is bleh. Especially with no sockets.

    Because you don't have to waste time finding gear or caring about it at all until level 40. It's a quality of life feature.​​
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    sterga said:

    Because you don't have to waste time finding gear or caring about it at all until level 40. It's a quality of life feature.​​

    Bingo! We have a winner!

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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    The original leveling gear is Nemesis gear, which cannot be bought with Gs or Zen. It's earned in game.

    You can get leveling gear with low amounts of Q, too.

    That being said, having slotted gear as mission rewards would go a long way to fix this issue. One of the first missions gives a level 7 or 8 slotted secondary, I think. More of this, please.
    Rather than slots, all we really need for leveling gear is to do away with all of the random stat trash rewards and instead, have the rewards adapt their stats based on the player's chosen superstats. That way, they're far more likely to get something useful/upgraded as they continue progressing, rather than yet another piece of junk that's just going to be thrown away seconds later.
    Yeah, I've never really understood why people like heirloom stuff. Pure +SS gear is bleh. Especially with no sockets.
    The whole leveling process is bleh because of how god-awful this game's balance is prior to hitting max level and getting gear with reasonable stats, cost reduction, etc. Heirloom gear, which scales with level, makes that process a lot less terrible, and even gives set bonuses for making the pre-40 slog less painful.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    ON THE OTHER HAND... you don't really need good gear if you're leveling up through missions. All that stuff is cardboard cutout country. So really, you could say the gear rewards match the content.

    Slotted gear wouldn't make it more exciting either, since with how fast we level up the most reasonable thing would be to just keep the first set of slotted gear you get and never upgrade since who wants to reslot their gear every few levels for little to no real benefit? I guess that's really the overall issue... you can't really make gearing up very exciting while leveling up in this game cause it doesn't really matter much. The exciting parts of leveling up is when you get a new power point.
  • aesica wrote: »
    Rather than slots, all we really need for leveling gear is to do away with all of the random stat trash rewards and instead, have the rewards adapt their stats based on the player's chosen superstats.

    sounds like D3's smartloot system, which will heavily bias stats on gear drops in favor of the one that actually matters for your current character (like intelligence for wizards, dexterity for monks, strength for barbarians and so on), though you can still rarely get a stat that doesn't match​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    aesica said:


    Rather than slots, all we really need for leveling gear is to do away with all of the random stat trash rewards and instead, have the rewards adapt their stats based on the player's chosen superstats.​​

    So... heirloom gear. :D
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    I think Aesica is suggesting that toons merely start with heirloom gear, rather than having to earn it through play or buy from a vendor.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    why bother having gear drops at all if you give people gear that levels with them?
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  • revanantmoriturirevanantmorituri Posts: 391 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    ON THE OTHER HAND... you don't really need good gear if you're leveling up through missions. All that stuff is cardboard cutout country. So really, you could say the gear rewards match the content.

    Slotted gear wouldn't make it more exciting either, since with how fast we level up the most reasonable thing would be to just keep the first set of slotted gear you get and never upgrade since who wants to reslot their gear every few levels for little to no real benefit? I guess that's really the overall issue... you can't really make gearing up very exciting while leveling up in this game cause it doesn't really matter much. The exciting parts of leveling up is when you get a new power point.

    Part of the point is to make the equipment process for the 1-30 range more productive and pleasant. There are players who enjoy messing with equipment. There are those, like myself, that find the 1-40 part of the game more enjoyable than the endgame. And contrary to certain beliefs, it is more than possible to have your head handed to you in leveling content. Fall into one of the Gen-Pop pits with the wrong on-level character in Stronghold, for example, and watch your health bar get erased in short order as 15-20 mobs take offense to your existence. Heck, every week I see someone in chat asking for help with the first Kevin Poe mission, because they're new, haven't picked up the trick of aggroing the minions before the cutscene, and have had their a$$ Poe-ned three times already.
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  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,397 Arc User
    I have a set of nemesis gear for all 32 of my leveling toons, it saves a lot of time leveling up if I don't have to consider rewards. It took me a while, but I achieved most of that by just having a nemesis active for my farming toon, and then doing nemesis missions between open world farming.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User

    Heck, every week I see someone in chat asking for help with the first Kevin Poe mission, because they're new, haven't picked up the trick of aggroing the minions before the cutscene, and have had their a$$ Poe-ned three times already.

    Yeah, Poe is the exception rather than the rule. Also notice that it's not gear that solves that problem... it's tactics.

    I think Aesica is suggesting that toons merely start with heirloom gear, rather than having to earn it through play or buy from a vendor.

    Sounds fine to me. The end result is basically the same since people are generally going to pick quest rewards that match their super stats anyways.
  • xacchaeusxacchaeus Posts: 308 Arc User
    blockwave said:

    I don't know, the Until vendor offers green gear boxes for your level, 15 until rec a piece, if you are doing quests, 15 until doesn't take much time to get.

    I have a lvl 10 going on 11... playing normal missions he has a grand total of 16 Until Rec... and its a crap shoot if it will be something he can use.

  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    So... heirloom gear. :D
    Sort of, but...not quite. Heirloom gear scales with level and has set bonuses. What I'm talking about is just gear that's guaranteed to have stats you can use. No scaling, no set bonuses, or anything like that.​​
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    If you remember to pick it up, you do get appropriate level 6 gear from the Head Trainer.

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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    You do start with that, the head trainer gives it to you, or at least is supposed to.
    Yes, and it's good design. After that, it's kind of a mess though.​​
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    recovery and int in utility gear is a bit rare. I usually used the Level 10 piece from chief surhoff with +30 until I got a replacement at the Worm temple at about 37.

    The reward gear really looks like someone just used the first couple of stats from the old gear when they changed at On Alert. There is a whole lot of weird combinations.
    Check out the AH for gear, there's usually good stuff in there. I hunt for remission gear because of the cost discount and recovery.
    also a lot of the 1 slot primary gear also gives you a big other stat, it's a matter of finding the ones you want.
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    Nemesis gear, the first set, you have to wait for missions. Once you get someone to 40,missions each 6hrs. I got enough points (1050) for a full 6 set in 1 week. Thats doing 2 missions a day.

    As for levelling with only SS's, energy unlock, form, ok I'm energy efficient. NO need to stat rec/int/end. And most of mine are ranged with energy of 150 or less.
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Are you using it right? There's usually something worthwhile for sale in there.....
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User

    Are you using it right? There's usually something worthwhile for sale in there.....

    I don't think he actually plays the game at all.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    Good stuff in the auction house. Are you serious the only gear in the AH is level 40 gear. All my years I played was never gear for low, mid or high level just max level gear for sale.

    I can find gear in the exchange while leveling up... why can't you?
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    It would probably be better to start giving out slotted primaries at low levels, as it's easier to make those fit your character. Could give out multi-slot gear with a mod cap, maybe, as it would create some reason to go around cracking nodes and learning your crafting skill.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User

    It would probably be better to start giving out slotted primaries at low levels, as it's easier to make those fit your character. Could give out multi-slot gear with a mod cap, maybe, as it would create some reason to go around cracking nodes and learning your crafting skill.

    Mod cap? Mods are also capped by item level. So if you simply stamp "level 24" on an item all mods slotted in it will be scaled down to whatever rank of mod corresponds to level 24.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Mod cap? Mods are also capped by item level. So if you simply stamp "level 24" on an item all mods slotted in it will be scaled down to whatever rank of mod corresponds to level 24.

    Yes, but a green primary also generally only has a single mod slot. I was thinking more mod slots, but capped at rank 3-4.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User

    Mod cap? Mods are also capped by item level. So if you simply stamp "level 24" on an item all mods slotted in it will be scaled down to whatever rank of mod corresponds to level 24.

    Yes, but a green primary also generally only has a single mod slot. I was thinking more mod slots, but capped at rank 3-4.
    at what level of item? As-is a lot of the gear is basically level 8 or so even if the quest that gives it requires a higher level, thus any slotted mods are scaled to rank 1. example:
    See how the silverback thing has no listed level? It's gear that you get from a mission around level 25 or so, but since it lacks a proper level it scales mods down.
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  • nacito#6758 nacito Posts: 984 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    haven't picked up the trick of aggroing the minions before the cutscene, and have had their a$$ Poe-ned three times already.

    ayyyyy I can relate to this... I still remember </3

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited May 2017


    See how the silverback thing has no listed level? It's gear that you get from a mission around level 25 or so, but since it lacks a proper level it scales mods down.

    Hrr...seems like a glitch. The way gear quest rewards are supposed to work is that they have a level (which is not displayed), but you can always slot them if you're able to get the quest (so if you do a level 25 quest at level 23, you can still use the reward).
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User

    And as an example, the Fallout mission in the Desert gives gear choices of Int, Dex and Str. At least one of which will be useful.

    It is also slotted, but since it doesn't have a proper level, any mods you put in it will behave as if they're rank 1.

    There are eight stats. If you don't have one of those three, the reward for that mission isn't especially useful. That was my point.

    The point is that it's so cheap you can buy multiples until you get one you like.

    Sometimes. But those things are also fall randomly and come one at a time, then you have to spend 15 at a time to get a random piece of gear. One of my complaints was there's too much random. If it doesn't bother you, that's fine; I'd like some level of non-random gearing myself, including basic gear. [NOTE: UNTIL tokens are random except for when you get them as mission rewards, though I believe that's still one at a time.]

    NOTE: queueing NemCon requires level 40.

    Well, I should start teaming a bit, anyway. Though that queue issue (where it fails sometimes) worries me a bit. Doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy dealing with, and I play to relax, not to wade through hit-or-miss queues. At any rate thanks for the notation, something I'll have to keep in mind.

    why bother having gear drops at all if you give people gear that levels with them?

    Very true. If they gave out gear like this, then people would get irritated that their bags keep filling up with junk, which is what the regular gear would become if they did this. Other than selling it, it would serve no purpose.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User

    You get Nemesis tokens by completing Nemesis missions. All of them, except for NemCon, are solo missions. You can queue for NemCon, much like special alerts.

    To do Nemesis missions:

    1. Reach level 25
    2. Talk to MCPD Captain Martin at the police station north of City Hall.
    3. Make a Nemesis and complete the first mission (it is in the museum right near the police station).
    4. Fight nemesis minions and get clues that give you new missions. You can receive one such mission up to every 6 hours real time (including time when logged off).
    5. Nem missions have a chance of spawning when you grab a glowy boost (red, green, blue, yellow, or white balls that drop from enemies/objects): there is a low chance if the boost drops from and enemy, but a 100% chance if dropped from an object.
    6. You can also fight your Nemesis in the Lava Temple, inside of the Monster Island volcano (not Andrith ruins, but the smaller, and easier Lava Temple). Your Nemesis will appear about 20% of the time, and you can just leave and re-enter until the Nemesis appears.
    7. You get only a small amount of tokens for each mission, and will only have enough for 1 piece of gear (maybe 2) after completing an entire run of nemesis missions, ending with Deathray Demolition.
    8. The next run of Nemesis missions (which allow you to make a second Nem) award more tokens, the third awards more, etc. For toons that have completed three or four complete Nemesis runs, you can bank enough tokens to get an entire Nem gear set very quickly.
    9. Nemesis gear can be stored in shared bank (hideout) and shared among toons.
    10. There Nemesis primaries and secondaries, and a set of secondaries can also have one of three auras for the eyes . . . or no aura (your choice).

    Hope that helps.

    I used Nemesis gear for leveling for years, and I was a solo player for a long time. Even just one set is super helpful, because you can easily swap it between toons.

    It does help, actually. You know, I think I've never actually been through Nemesis stuff enough to even notice the rewards. As I said, I lost interest in it a long time ago. A mistake on my part, maybe.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 352 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    Eh, the game is easy enough that leveling with the existing lackluster drops is no real problem.

    spinnytop said:

    ON THE OTHER HAND... you don't really need good gear if you're leveling up through missions. All that stuff is cardboard cutout country. So really, you could say the gear rewards match the content.

    Most of the time. However, if you engage Viper X or Chimera, you really need good gear, because sometimes no one else shows up. Those things fail on time limit; even though the rewards for these are, well, pathetic, the XP and the victory make them worth fighting. There's also lairs like Teleios' Tower (NOT Teleios Ascendant) that you can solo; the mobs in those are not as easy, and again, you don't want substandard gear.
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