Quest Balancing / Improved Descriptions

jokerdiace · February 2017

So, I really love Champions Online. I'm a LTS-player and love the Freeform-Abilities I have with it. However, one thing starts to annoy me the last few weeks.

Many quests are simply disappointing due to their description. Take Fatal Error: Carrierwave, for example. Unless you play a supertank or have healing pets, you stand no chance to solo Cyberlord. Of course, one could now say "then skill better", but honestly, I have no issues defeating hyena swine who is four levels above me and on hard with my skillset. So I kind of think, this is more related to a false description. It's by far not the only mission neglecting to mention you need a party.

The other thing that I noticed is that the lemurian crises does not state that you need a party to start it. Waiting for two hours for it to start because you expect it to be the same as the MI-crisis or the apocalypse is a waste of time, especially for new players who don't know the community yet and are too afraid to ask.

This is just general ideas on my side, what do you think?

jaazaniah1 · February 2017

Remember the good old days, when AoAC was despised? Now, at least in end game content, it is a valued and appreciated aura. I even have 2 characters with it.

rtma · February 2017

@jaazaniah1 That had more to do with CO being Solo friendly for so long which promoted self sufficient/Independent builds which rendered roles like Tanks and Support redundant (I have vented a few times over the years about these experiences.), now that we got Cosmics and such that are Threatening, it encourages teamwork and co-operation.

roughbearmattach · February 2017

I thought Carrier Wave says recommended for team of 2.

magpieuk2014 · February 2017

It does, like all the Fatal Error content. To solo (as a Silver, anyway) it you need a character with a very good self-heal (borderline healer, really), some passive attacks (so you're doing damage while you heal) and, potentially, some additional dps from sidekicks and the like. Good fun once you've done it, though.

aesica · February 2017

jokerdiace#3504 wrote: »

Many quests are simply disappointing due to their description. Take Fatal Error: Carrierwave, for example. Unless you play a supertank or have healing pets, you stand no chance to solo Cyberlord. Of course, one could now say "then skill better", but honestly, I have no issues defeating hyena swine who is four levels above me and on hard with my skillset. So I kind of think, this is more related to a false description. It's by far not the only mission neglecting to mention you need a party.

You don't need to be a "supertank" to beat carrier wave. As someone who prefers self sufficiency over putting all of my eggs in a single role basket, I can safely say that all you really need is some self-healing and defense. Typically, just about anything with Invulnerability, Defiance, or Aura of Radiant Protection plus self healing through Conviction and/or Lifedrain (or one of its clones) should be sufficient. Hopping on the wardicator/guardicator bandwagon helps too. Personally, I prefer Invulnerability over the other two for soloing everyday content.

And to be fair, the quest text does suggest at least 2 people.

pantagruel01 · February 2017

Carrier wave is a fairly typical difficulty for a 2-man mission. I just soloed it with a soldier without using heals, though I did have good gear.

spinnytop · February 2017

jokerdiace#3504 said:
Of course, one could now say "then skill better"

You were right!

chaelk · February 2017

damned by ranged support characters must be supertanks. NA passive, concentration, half attacks half heals.

Hyenaswine is an old mission which hasn't been updated for all the power creep in the last 6years that's why he's so easy. I've beaten him on all at's including healers. He needs upgrading , as do all the old missions. Kevin poe in purple reign has actually been downgraded.

sterga · February 2017

Like basically everyone that replied to this thread, I have many thousands of hours in CO and have long since become more than knowledgeable enough to be able to blow through such content. I have no idea what the experience is like for the average player, which is probably closer to the OP, so can't really say if it is too hard or not for those players. I'm not going to sit here and mock the OP for what might be a legitimate complaint from my high horse of superior game knowledge.

I do see there is a point to how ridiculous the content balance is and how that negatively impacts less knowledgeable players by not being able to gauge how hard content will be. That aspect I agree with. Content balance shouldn't be all over the place with misleading descriptions and questionable difficulty for similar pieces. But I won't hold my breath for devs to update the bulk of the game to be in line with the newer content. Even though it should be.

guyhumual · February 2017

Okay, there are missions in this game that can't be soloed, there are missions that need team ups, but regardless of if the example given (carrier wave) is one of those missions or not, what does need to happen is that if missions require group effort for silvers, then there should be some rewards that make it worth the time and effort for people to help out. Maybe increase the rewards for a group effort? I'm not sure what that mission gives you now but let's say you can solo it and if gives you 2G as a reward, maybe it should give 3G if you beat the mission as part of a team? Just a thought.

magpieuk2014 · February 2017

Like basically everyone that replied to this thread, I have many thousands of hours in CO and have long since become more than knowledgeable enough to be able to blow through such content.

I can now, with a freeform build, but at the time I first did it (with my all-time favourite toon, the Grimoire AT) it wasn't easy but felt do-able. My tips would be:

a) disregard the opinion of anyone who says "I can do this standing on my head, is there something wrong with you"?

b) make sure you've optimised your gear - max level your equipment, maybe invest in some primary gear from the AH which boosts HP rather than damage, try and get a set of Armadillo secondaries

c) check out the AH for cheap devices; sidekicks to keep doing damage/take away aggro or Backups! as a finisher

d) make the best use of your powers. Sometimes an Active Defense gives you time to heal, sometimes it's a cue to go hell-for-leather on the attack.

e) Block early, block often.

f) You can do it.

soundsrisky · February 2017

roughbearmattach said:
I thought Carrier Wave says recommended for team of 2.

Intranet Deployment (the first mission) is tagged as 2 player, Carrier Wave is not.

spinnytop · February 2017

I guess I'm special cause I started steamrolling this game with ATs from day one, back when the content we're discussing was tougher than it is now cause the player power explosion hadn't happened yet. Personally I don't think I'm special at all, I think my experience was fairly typical and some of you just have really really low opinions of "newbies".

roughbearmattach · February 2017

spinnytop said:
I guess I'm special cause I started steamrolling this game with ATs from day one, back when the content we're discussing was tougher than it is now cause the player power explosion hadn't happened yet. Personally I don't think I'm special at all, I think my experience was fairly typical and some of you just have really really low opinions of "newbies".

Spinny, you are actually a very skilled player of CO, separate from builds, as evidenced by your videos.

That being said, the game these days really isn't so tough, except for a mission here, a mission there, and some endgame stuff.

spinnytop · February 2017

roughbearmattach said:
Spinny, you are actually a very skilled player of CO, separate from builds, as evidenced by your videos.

Yeah but I'm talking about when I started. Was I just instantly a very skilled CO player?

chuckwolf · February 2017

Carrier wave is fairly easy. I can solo it with a mid-level ~level 25 Force Based character using PFF as passive, IDF for a little added defense and a combination of Grav Ripple, Crushing wave and Force Cascade for damage.

pantagruel01 · February 2017

soundsrisky said:

roughbearmattach said:
I thought Carrier Wave says recommended for team of 2.
Intranet Deployment (the first mission) is tagged as 2 player, Carrier Wave is not.

That's a legit bug. If anything I'd reverse it, Intranet Deployment mostly has 1-1.5-player spawn strength whereas Carrier Wave has mostly 2-3-player spawns (as a rule of thumb, a single-player spawn is 1MV, 1V+2H, 2V, or 4H, a two-player spawn is two of those).

chaelk · February 2017

magpieuk2014 wrote: »

Like basically everyone that replied to this thread, I have many thousands of hours in CO and have long since become more than knowledgeable enough to be able to blow through such content.

I can now, with a freeform build, but at the time I first did it (with my all-time favourite toon, the Grimoire AT) it wasn't easy but felt do-able. My tips would be:

a) disregard the opinion of anyone who says "I can do this standing on my head, is there something wrong with you"?

b) make sure you've optimised your gear - max level your equipment, maybe invest in some primary gear from the AH which boosts HP rather than damage, try and get a set of Armadillo secondaries

c) check out the AH for cheap devices; sidekicks to keep doing damage/take away aggro or Backups! as a finisher

d) make the best use of your powers. Sometimes an Active Defense gives you time to heal, sometimes it's a cue to go hell-for-leather on the attack.

e) Block early, block often.

f) You can do it.

you missed the other ones. Karneeki sells heal items. you can get a stack of 20 to provide extra heals. Look in the UNTIL recog store for other CHEAP useful items. the summons are your level when you buy them.

and yes, I've been killing him from the start too. If I'm on ranged, i make sure i hit him from ranged and more as he runs forwar, block and use heal items. Melee lunge, attack, block and heal.

one 'quirk' if you have flight, just in front and above him is a lump in the ceiling, if you hover just behind that, he gets in a position where he can't lunge.

chuckwolf · February 2017

magpieuk2014 said:
Like basically everyone that replied to this thread, I have many thousands of hours in CO and have long since become more than knowledgeable enough to be able to blow through such content.

I can now, with a freeform build, but at the time I first did it (with my all-time favourite toon, the Grimoire AT) it wasn't easy but felt do-able. My tips would be:

a) disregard the opinion of anyone who says "I can do this standing on my head, is there something wrong with you"?

b) make sure you've optimised your gear - max level your equipment, maybe invest in some primary gear from the AH which boosts HP rather than damage, try and get a set of Armadillo secondaries

c) check out the AH for cheap devices; sidekicks to keep doing damage/take away aggro or Backups! as a finisher

d) make the best use of your powers. Sometimes an Active Defense gives you time to heal, sometimes it's a cue to go hell-for-leather on the attack.

e) Block early, block often.

f) You can do it.

About Gear... seriously consider either grinding the Nemesis Heirloom set or spending the money to get the Aurum set. and using a hideout to transfer them from character to character. they are the best leveling gear you can get, especially the Aurum.

markhawkman · February 2017

or you can use random junk.

the main benefit to heirloom for leveling is when it has an xp boost

decorumfriends · February 2017

And many (me, especially) find "Super Stats Only" gear to be horribly limiting and inadequate for making a working build. I'll just visit the AH every 5-10 levels and work from there.

Quest Balancing / Improved Descriptions

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