Guys look for other CoT information. I do not truly trust this thread as the OP seems to be trying to stealth sh*t on CoT.
The Nuphty is right. If you can bear to look at the old Valiance Online thread you can see that the guy starts by slating both CoT and VO, then changes to the position that he's willing to give VO a chance then finishes by claiming that VO is the messiah we've all been waiting on........ and continues to **** on CoT.
But the last thing we are, is enablers. There are always going to be discussions and critiques among us, something that I notice was never allowed here of this game.
Starting an argument with an obvious falsehood is not a good place to start. People start discussions and critiques all the time. Yes, a lot of them get responses in the form of "you're wrong, and here's why", but that's actually a part of discussion.
But reality is, unless you guys really paid attention to the games, stop talking just attacking it here
People don't attack it unless someone puts up a target. If you put up a crappy-looking video, expect it to be attacked for being a crappy-looking video.
I suppose, I could have just said this: Could you guys focus more on constructively criticizing CO and trying to improve it's weaker aspects of gameplay instead of spending 10+ paragraphs saying why CoT/VO/H&V will fail and that no one should believe in them? Focus on helping your game, rather than posting about the other games in development without checking any of your own facts? CO is weakening, dying, 4 years ago MC had around 500 people, dropped to only 300 2 years ago and often times now I see it with less than 200 on peak hours(excluding holiday events). A 40%/2 year abandonment rate is not a good sign for any game. I know, off-topic forum but, still.
Actually I do check my own facts, in fact I have been linked to numerous posts on Titan forums from developers of the game of those posts. It also seems to be hypocritical stance you are taking since patient amongst you have been furthest from adults, especially the developers of said projects. You seem to also be basing your information on MC alone and not the whole game. Considering now there are things that happen outside the city, including the cosmics which tend to force spawn multiple instances of the zones they spawn in, basing your head count on MC alone seems a bit... silly.
But let's look at the tangible then, while you keep claiming nothing is being done to improve CO at all;
1. This one doesn't even seem remotely a complaint as I am sure constructive criticism would be valid at points when it can be handled. 2. I want to see a definition of casual you are using since 99% of the game caters to casual play. Hell, even the new "hard" content still caters to casual play since it doesn't require ludicrous set ups to actually succeed at them. Just requires people paying attention. 3. I'm sorry, but balance requires overpowered things to be brought in line as much as under performers buffed up. 4. Yes, because they've always devoted nothing but all their resources to end game content because... oh wait, that's right. End game didn't exist in Champions until this last year. 5. Or, better yet, players need to stop wanting to have their hands being held. There is nothing really punishing about the game play as it is had, considering it is the most forgiving game on the market as far as punishments are concerned. 6. This point seems to be completely made up. I doubt anyone tells you to stop having fun at any point in history of this game. The only people sore about claiming their fun is ruined are those that knew they were taking a broken and overpowered power set and abusing it. And expected it wouldn't get balanced or fixed when the devs have said for the past year balancing out the broken stuff is the goal. 7. I suggest you learn what perfect imbalance is as well. Perfect imbalance is not a reference that what is broken is fine. Perfect imbalance is a meaning that set A won't do the exact same things as set B, and thus have slight (note the word slight) advantages doing something, but will be counter acted by something that set B will do slightly better than set A. What perfect imbalance does not mean that set A will do nearly 1500 to 2000 more DPS than set B with minimalistic gear, compared to set B decked out in the best in slot you can possibly have, meanwhile set A also having ridiculous debuffing power, survivability and CC on top of it. That is not perfect imbalance, that is just called plain imbalance.
And all things considered, since you were the one who kept boasting for a year and a half, in zone chat, that CoX was returning and CO was going to die, ontop of CoT coming out soon in that time, including a bio that makes that claim, your statement of being an adult is kind of hilarious at this point.
I suppose, I could have just said this: Could you guys focus more on constructively criticizing CO and trying to improve it's weaker aspects of gameplay instead
I'm not sure if you've looked around, but we don't actually spend a lot of time talking about VO or CoT or whatever. If you had looked around you would see we do actually spend lots of time talking about CO around here... it is a CO forum after all so you know, no surprise there. It's just that when A1steaksauce comes around bragging about Vapor Online he makes himself such a delicious target.. it's fun to wave a hand around, scatter the vapor all over and then watch him devolve into an upset toddler that was just told Santa Clause isn't real. He's not by the way... just making sure you're aware.
I am skeptical of CoT as well as VO. Even so, I am not attacking other games for two reasons:
1) I would be delighted to see more superhero options on the market (as long as they are not much like COH). I do not wish ill for anyone investing their time, money, and effort into a labor of love. Good luck to them. It really does look as if they will need it.
2) They are not yet games from what I have seen. As far as is available to me to confirm they may some day be games but currently are not. Can't really attack something that does not exist.
There are always going to be discussions and critiques among us, something that I notice was never allowed here of this game.
Which I think, is ultimately, the difference here. Some people in this game community seem hellbent on lying about the games or distorting reality. But reality is, unless you guys really paid attention to the games, stop talking just attacking it here like republicans attack democrates/vice versa in real life.
Might want to practice what you preach.
I have been VERY critical of this game. I have been VERY critical of the development studio. I have interacted with MANY others who have done the same. I have engaged in discussion with others still who disagreed with me, and with others who have been critical of the game. Some of the most staunch defenders of the game, those who quite obviously love it, have also critiqued it. Scott Bennie's unofficial state of the game post, currently active on the forum, is both supportive and critical of the game...and he is one of the creator's of the IP (and writer of some of my favorite source material. I have an autographed source book or two on the shelf as I recall). Others have posted in the thread, including some of the game's defenders, agreeing with Scott's criticism.
Critique has always been allowed. Has always been pretty common to be honest. I have received support in my criticism from moderators, game supporters, and even developers. Of course there are also those who try to shoot down criticism in general because anything seen as an attack on something that they love is seen as a personal attack on them. Not surprisingly uninformed or blind attacks tend to be dismissed and comparisons to nonexistent products (every game is amazing before release) tend to be trolled for the trolling that they tend to be and deserve.
In a way I am glad people are skeptical, in a way, it keeps the projects from becoming complacent, which is the last thing anyone needs imo.
Then why are you complaining about us being skeptical. Just because you decide to try to characterize it as "attacking" doesn't make it so. It's not as if we came to your forums and talked **** about your game. Hell, you don't like what's going on in this thread? Move your mouse up to the top of the screen, find the little X button on the tab you have our forums open on, and click it. Have a nice day.
Also if you think criticism isn't allowed here then I'm not sure what threads you read when you 'checked in' on our forums, but you must have put a lot of effort into avoiding the ones criticizing the game. If you take a look around you'll notice that when criticisms are made, they are then discussed, often at length and in great detail. There's none of this "no criticism allowed" going on anywhere around here.
The CoT team decided to release a low-res gif file to show a certain gameplay feature. I actually don't have a problem with the gun-wielding character being shown design-wise, but to release gameplay footage on low-res gif? Come on now. Either the game looks really terrible at the moment that they had to use a low-res gif to hide it, or someone's being especially tardy and don't really care about marketing the game right.
I'm willing to bet that if the same gif was put in another gaming forum thread other than CO's, the general response will still be "omg this looks $@#!".
And as Spinny has said, we don't spend a whole lot of time talking about CoT or VO. Heck, it's an extreme rarity even in the Off Topic section. We don't actively make threads just to bash and make fun of the projects. It's when people start hailing them as the messiah of superhero MMOs and start making claims that they are CO-killers, don't be surprised at the obvious response. This thread's original poster has a history of doing that.
Even if a thread is started with the honest intent to discuss the game objectively, what really do you expect the discussion to go? It's not like there's a lot to go with in terms of gameplay videos or pictures or an existing playable beta or a confirmed date of release for one. The same old defense is that "they're doing things" and to be positive. The consensus will always result in the game being vaporware.
Here, is what I see being done here with shewolf's posts saying all three successors all started as one group of people, even though thats only true of two of them(and even then heroes/villains is hit/miss to most), and lying about them on false conclusions:
1: The projects have no hope since they are all split. Even though in reality: Valiance online was NEVER part of city of titans, heck they even DECLINED some proposals involving CoT and efforts to revive CoH(which no one really knows about save those working on them). They, quote "Believe in our product". 2: The projects are not anywhere near as far as they are(VO is nearing alpha, actually). 3: Claiming to know how far they are without really knowing or having a means to back it up. All I know, silverspar, you could be just going by the latest public update, many games have more going on that isn't publicly available. Even independent games.
The only things I can think of, is silverspar uses some things I said about the projects when I was a little over-hyped, which I admit, I was. I was also frustrated with CO at the time, heck still am frustrated with CO on some aspects. Some people look forward to the successors not just cause they liked CoX but because CO had sunk so much in there perspective, it's hard to blame them if they get full of hype. Hype is a thing. I am sure CO had a lot of hype when it was first in development, I remember some CoX players speaking highly of CO while it was in development before the day 1 nerfs.
Thats, how I see this thread going, anyways.
You make some big claims and not understanding my point or approach as always. You seem to think I am cheerleading for Champions but make the bold mistake of missing the point entirely.
1. Valiance Online is no closer to an alpha than CoT. Considering they regularly post Cot updates on the VO site, I find it hard to believe that they don't have some investment in it. I do not believe in projects that don't produce results. VO's result is a shoddy pre-alpha that's as bad as many of the greenlight projects it tried to release itself in. There is nothing about the VO pre-alpha that even warrants backing. 2. Considering they haven't even reached their first milestone in funding goals to even begin a fraction of the things they are talking about, it seems a tad too optimistic to say they are close to alpha. That's like saying a man smack dab in the middle of the Sahara is close to an ocean. 3. I think you can tell how much is going on by what is actually being delivered when and where. CoT has missed two deadlines already and their new deadline is now two years away, which is still exorbitantly optimistic, and once again you miss what I say because you are being caught with your pants down, again. Even if CoT was full of professional programmers I would call their 2018 deadline optimistic, because I use the experience and history of the industry as a whole to tell me the reality of how these things go, and how long and how likely it will be a product they promised. And VO, they showed a bland, featureless map, hooray, they got someone to use the paint fill option finally to put some color into their world.
Once again, Alex, you have cherry picked your targets, taking them out of context, and failed to address anything else. You get called out on the fact that let's see, both VO promised something on Steam by the end of this year, and CoT has missed it's launch window twice and will undoubtedly miss this next one, considering professional dev companies take more time than this, and the ambition of said projects, especially MMOs, in such a short time period. You are being ridiculous at this point. And I think you missed the part where I stated, point blank that I want them to prove me wrong, and you can claim that I can't see what is going on behind the scenes all day, but you can get a general gist of where the project is just by looking at what they are showing off.
Oh, and Alex, you completely missed the fact that I am probably one of the most critical of Champions, and also the fact I think I stated that I wanted these projects to prove me wrong. But once again, you fail to see that because your ego is on the line, and you think you have to defend these projects when all I am doing is pointing out the facts that you don't want to hear. These games are vaporware, promised flowers of games that have all this huge potential, and their teams are promising more than they can handle.
Also, you don't really have a leg to stand on of talking crap, when you do it in game in Champions and oh, you did it on YouTube until you deleted those posts when I kept pointing out the promises, you made in fact, about CoH, CoT and so on and how Champions was going to die. So don't give me this you are being attacked monologue and just defending something. Hell you only come out of your little hidey hole when it is CoT. After all, you were the one in game that started claiming CoH was one signature away from being revived, CO was going to die soon, oh and the mother of all statements, we shouldn't contact NCSoft to inquire about these super secret dealings because questions would scare NCSoft away from a deal. Get real here about trying to act like you were even remotely mature.
And on one last bit, before you claim some friendly competition or whatever, sorry, but people competing for what will be a small amount of players in the end, do not post potentially better work on their web site of a competing product. I tried to fight for two years to get a memorial for City of Heroes placed in Champions, but it wouldn't happen on that grounds alone, let alone NCSoft would have probably done something themselves. So don't feed me some malarkey that two games, planning to be pay to play no less, are trying to undercut themselves by posting potentially better work from their competition on their website. Hell, in VO's case, it stinks of them weighing in on potentially throwing in the towel no less.
As far as your defeatists attitude when I call you on your perfect imbalance point, please stop Alex. You damn well know you were using perfect imbalance to try and hand wave the gross imbalance Champions has with your buff everything else up statement. You tried to use the meaning of said article in a perverted manner to justify your point. No one likes nerfs but when somethings is so obviously outside the curve, when even the content is a joke, then it has to be brought in line or else the content will have to get harder leaving the underperformers behind. Hell, in warframe they just added a new frame called Nidus, and there is no way that this beast of a frame was intended to be so powerful as a healer, CC and DPS and able to carry entire groups on its own. No other frame can do that without super specializing and the ones that can require top notch modding. Nidus doesn't, so I am well aware, and most people are, that Nidus will undoubtedly receive a nerf soon.
Attacking City of titans/VO/H&V will not make champions online a good game again and only sets it up for failure. Because your not focusing on making your game better.
Focusing discussion on how to save CO in a positive and innovative way will.
I've never seen anyone here "attack" those hopefuls. There's playful, maybe harsh at times, comments, but they are warranted given what the topics are (such as in this case where the OP shows a lot of nothing). And I don't know which forum you're referring to, but this one is chock full of critiques and commentary on what has improved and what needs improvement about CO. Far harsher criticism and critiques have been given about the current state of the game than what has been so far said about VO, CoT, and H&V. If you haven't seen them, you haven't looked hard enough.
See at this point all your banter lost its steam since you admitted this is the off-topic section where, you know, people can talk about anything, including those games in development.
I get it, you feel the need to defend those works in progress. That happens when a person is invested emotionally on whatever subject. No harm in that. But skewing your defense in a way that makes it appear as if these efforts are being unjustly assaulted by people around here isn't helping your cause any.
Attacking City of titans/VO/H&V will not make champions online a good game again and only sets it up for failure. Because your not focusing on making your game better.
Focusing discussion on how to save CO in a positive and innovative way will.
I've never seen anyone here "attack" those hopefuls. There's playful, maybe harsh at times, comments, but they are warranted given what the topics are (such as in this case where the OP shows a lot of nothing). And I don't know which forum you're referring to, but this one is chock full of critiques and commentary on what has improved and what needs improvement about CO. Far harsher criticism and critiques have been given about the current state of the game than what has been so far said about VO, CoT, and H&V. If you haven't seen them, you haven't looked hard enough.
See at this point all your banter lost its steam since you admitted this is the off-topic section where, you know, people can talk about anything, including those games in development.
I get it, you feel the need to defend those works in progress. That happens when a person is invested emotionally on whatever subject. No harm in that. But skewing your defense in a way that makes it appear as if these efforts are being unjustly assaulted by people around here isn't helping your cause any.
He comes out of the woodwork when it's talk about CoH or CoT in particular, especially if people aren't praising their names as the holy messiah's of gaming, and tries to shame and educate people when they don't bow down to that ideology, despite I've played MMOs long enough to want to see the product first before I jump on some bandwagon of a hype train on spreadsheets, well wishes and tech demos. It's what drew him out on YouTube in fact, when WatchMojo put CoH on their top ten failed MMOs, I believe it was.
He also has some fascinating ideal I just bash and hate on CoH, when I know I've stated I miss the Rogue Isles (not Paragon mind you) from time to time and some of the memories I had there, but the game was flawed and far from the perfect gem people give it, and the direction CoH went in left a sour taste in my mouth especially since Positron pretty much threw the Rogue Isles under a bus after a long list of promises of exclusive zones and content for villains.
It was the community of CoH that was what kept me invested as long as it did. The game play was sub par, at best, and honestly, the Rogue Isles had the best community of cut throat villains out there, while going to Paragon felt like I was just a step or two shy of going to the Barrens in WoW. But people see things differently, and while I would love a fantastic super hero MMO that espouses being a super hero, what is being promised is not that, and what CoH was was not that either. As I state, it's bad guy beat em up simulators at best, the actual super heroing stuff isn't involved. If an MMO got to the level of an Arkham game at least, in MMO format, where I could stealth, spy and decisions actually had weight and mattered and not just bullet sponge simulator 3000, then I might get more hyped.
Yeah... what's there to defend? I've yet to see anything that looks like it might be a playable game. I saw a pic of a rather stiff animation, which is apparently meant to be a PLAYER character.... and what looks like a half finished city scape.
It was the community of CoH that was what kept me invested as long as it did. The game play was sub par, at best, and honestly, the Rogue Isles had the best community of cut throat villains out there, while going to Paragon felt like I was just a step or two shy of going to the Barrens in WoW.
Thats the truth. Going into Paragon it was like walking into a kindergarten especially if that moo face Gollum Girl *cough* I mean Golden Girl was about >_>"
That loon made Caliga seem humble by comparison.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yeah... so.... xan... if that's your real name.... What has either the CoT, VO, or H&V team actually done or shown that gives anyone a reason to believe they will have a finished game done before doomsday?
We cannot offer critique of "the weaker aspects of [VO and CoT] gameplay".
For you seem to have failed to notice - there IS no gameplay. The names exist, some (poorly rendered) animation exists, but the games themselves do not. One cannot offer suggestions to improve that which is not there.
Personally, I'm critiquing the companies for their continued offering of vaporware. It's amazing what your software can do, when it doesn't actually have to demonstrate that it can do it...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Well when I critiqued CO, especially the grind heavy content more or less requiring trinity play or nearly requiring it combined with a lack of damage mitigation tactics outside of having one guy taking all the hits while some others heal him, team wise, when it was showing up in the form of the rampages I took a lot of heat for it and people more or less just attacked me for it.
Oh no, people disagreed with you. The horror. Some people just can't handle when someone disagrees with them. If you're that type of person ( one red flag is if you think people disagreeing with you is them "attacking" you ), acknowledge it and find yourself a nice bubble.
Yeah... what's there to defend? I've yet to see anything that looks like it might be a playable game. I saw a pic of a rather stiff animation, which is apparently meant to be a PLAYER character.... and what looks like a half finished city scape.
I guess not.
Gee, a game that's two years from its announced launch date looks unfinished? I'm shocked, shocked to discover works in progress here!
I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself to the same group of people: Crowdfunding forces developers to demonstrate what privately-funded studios would never consider revealing. The only reason you can make your "HURR DURR VAPORWARE" jokes is because crowdfunding revealed that VO and CoT exist. If they were fully private, you'd probably be just learning about VO today, and CoT wouldn't even be announced yet.
Then again, if "common sense", "consulting primary sources", and "reading comprehension" were in greater supply here, maybe xan and I wouldn't have to come back and smack you around for the lack of them.
Instead, it's all misplaced anger and selfishness and unearned resentment and "F*** you for not being done yet!", best exemplified by this gem of a quote:
I do not believe in projects that don't produce results.
No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Okay....MG, you win! I'm sold....if I can make dwarf centaurs then I'll delete my CO acct!
Then delete away. I saw it on a list of promises so it must be true....... to be implemented at some indeterminate point in the future! They're a staple of the superhero genre don'tcha know.
Yeah... so.... xan... if that's your real name.... What has either the CoT, VO, or H&V team actually done or shown that gives anyone a reason to believe they will have a finished game done before doomsday?
Slow and steady progress and lasting this long in the first place inspite everything.
Edit: (insert whining here)
What progress? From what I've seen of the releases they've done there is no game engine. You know... the core of the game, the one thing you need to have something to play.... the weak art could be dismissed as an unfinished work in progress, but.... the unfinished art seems to be the only thing they HAVE...
And yes, games like Diablo 3 could have shown us something even 6 months into their development. It's part of building a game engine.... You don't just pour bits into a bucket until it's full and then POOF a game engine emerges. you piece it together one routine at a time and then you TEST THEM to make sure what you've done so far actually works before adding more stuff.
Anyone have thoughts on this minion creation stuff?
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Crowdfunding forces developers to demonstrate what privately-funded studios would never consider revealing. The only reason you can make your "HURR DURR VAPORWARE" jokes is because crowdfunding revealed that VO and CoT exist. If they were fully private, you'd probably be just learning about VO today, and CoT wouldn't even be announced yet.
No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
A couple of solid points there. I had wondered about all of the use of the term "vaporware" in a situation where a company is in the lengthy process of developing a product. All products are nonexistent until they exist. I hadn't considered the difference between privately funded vs crowd funding in terms of information revelation about an upcoming game. Definitely something to keep in mind IMO.
That said, people are reacting to a pattern of people coming here to compare as of yet unreleased, not just unreleased-unfunded- projects, as if they were already in existence and as if they were already demonstrably superior to the product, actual product, associated with these forums.
Reacting to that is not selfish or any other pejorative you might wish to assign.
Yeah... so.... xan... if that's your real name.... What has either the CoT, VO, or H&V team actually done or shown that gives anyone a reason to believe they will have a finished game done before doomsday?
Slow and steady progress and lasting this long in the first place inspite everything.
Edit: Frankly, I don't bring them up here usually, only reason I ever came here was the lying about them, specifically claiming they were all one project before.
As I said, I kind of have a point about bringing them up here anymore, to many trolls jump on it imo. It just makes CO's community look bad.
Really isn't any lying but do keep telling to yourself about that.
I do not believe in projects that don't produce results.
No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
I love this epic straw man attempt. It's the most classic form of bait and switch attempt to try and prove otherwise. And yes, there would be results to show. In short, you don't like criticism, you want to be pampered and told good job for missing two deadlines and for us to have patience on something that people gave money for and pushing back said deadline another two years, on top of that. You want blind faith on something that promised a beta what was it in 2015? When I know professional companies take 8 to 10 years to get something tangible working?
And the difference between you guys and Blizzard, Blizzard hasn't even said anything about Diablo 4 so I don't get where you are getting that from. The only people talking about Diablo 4 are the Diablo fans, like Rhykker, who has been going on and on about the goodies bag they got and people jumped to conclusions about a misprinted 4 sided die. A huge difference when a company has said nothing and another company is already missed two deadlines and now pushing back their release another 2 years, and will undoubtedly miss that, or decide then is the time they need to quit.
So before you try to pass that fart off as people not understanding, and try to use the well company does X, just stop you only embarrass yourself further.
This, however, reminds me of No Man's Sky, Mighty No. 9 and other such big projects. All the hype, anticipation and so on. That epic fart let out after and deflation and outrage people had afterwards to. Considering the bitter tears over criticism, it's getting a tad silly at this point and if these people being staunch defenders, I shall remind them of those who kept saying Everquest Next would be a big thing, or back in the early days, how Shadowbane was going to be the revolutionary UO killer of its day.
Crowdfunding forces developers to demonstrate what privately-funded studios would never consider revealing. The only reason you can make your "HURR DURR VAPORWARE" jokes is because crowdfunding revealed that VO and CoT exist. If they were fully private, you'd probably be just learning about VO today, and CoT wouldn't even be announced yet.
No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
A couple of solid points there. I had wondered about all of the use of the term "vaporware" in a situation where a company is in the lengthy process of developing a product. All products are nonexistent until they exist. I hadn't considered the difference between privately funded vs crowd funding in terms of information revelation about an upcoming game. Definitely something to keep in mind IMO.
That said, people are reacting to a pattern of people coming here to compare as of yet unreleased, not just unreleased-unfunded- projects, as if they were already in existence and as if they were already demonstrably superior to the product, actual product, associated with these forums.
Reacting to that is not selfish or any other pejorative you might wish to assign.
Actually, people are reacting considering that crowd funded projects (video games specifically) have a deplorable track record, even for the released games. Need I remind people of Mighty No. 9 or No Man's Sky, or the ones that never launched like the Yogscast travesty. Blind faith is one thing, but they are also promising the moon and stars in the sky on their web sites, and so far, what has been demonstrated is not inspiring, and if they don't want to hear that, then they don't really have a right to talk about criticism of CO at this point.
And let's not forget that certain projects got way more money than Titan project got. Never mind that VO hasn't even hit their goals, and considering several such projects had to close because they ran out of money and that was within 2 years, how do these plan to make it another 2 years?
I do not believe in projects that don't produce results.
No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
I love this epic straw man attempt. It's the most classic form of bait and switch attempt to try and prove otherwise. And yes, there would be results to show. In short, you don't like criticism, you want to be pampered and told good job for missing two deadlines and for us to have patience on something that people gave money for and pushing back said deadline another two years, on top of that. You want blind faith on something that promised a beta what was it in 2015? When I know professional companies take 8 to 10 years to get something tangible working?
And the difference between you guys and Blizzard, Blizzard hasn't even said anything about Diablo 4 so I don't get where you are getting that from. The only people talking about Diablo 4 are the Diablo fans, like Rhykker, who has been going on and on about the goodies bag they got and people jumped to conclusions about a misprinted 4 sided die. A huge difference when a company has said nothing and another company is already missed two deadlines and now pushing back their release another 2 years, and will undoubtedly miss that, or decide then is the time they need to quit.
So before you try to pass that fart off as people not understanding, and try to use the well company does X, just stop you only embarrass yourself further.
This, however, reminds me of No Man's Sky, Mighty No. 9 and other such big projects. All the hype, anticipation and so on. That epic fart let out after and deflation and outrage people had afterwards to. Considering the bitter tears over criticism, it's getting a tad silly at this point and if these people being staunch defenders, I shall remind them of those who kept saying Everquest Next would be a big thing, or back in the early days, how Shadowbane was going to be the revolutionary UO killer of its day.
What straw man? You don't know if Diablo IV is being developed today. Neither do I. Neither does anybody outside of Blizzard. I simply chose it as a representative example because
THIS IS MY ENTIRE G****** F****** POINT.
There are a hundred games in development right now that are under no obligation whatsoever to verify their existence or demonstrate their progress to the likes of you. Because they've crowdfunded, VO and CoT are obligated. It's hardly "hype" on the level of No Man's Sky or Mighty No. 9, it's just progress reports. And you've exploited that fact to piss all over everything they do, apparently based on nothing more than hearsay from MC /zone, which we all know is about 1000x worse than the forums.
You think late 2015 was a hopelessly optimistic launch date for City of Titans? You're exactly right. I thought the same thing when I saw that on their Kickstarter. But I donated anyway. Not a lot, but not a penny either. I've been a (non-gaming) professional software developer for 22 years, so I know how engineering the foundation of a major project is fraught with complications and pitfalls. (To this day, I can stumble upon a bit of code I wrote in 1998 and wonder what the hell I was thinking.) I also recognized Nate Downes' name from his work on the Gentoo Linux distribution, so I had faith in his engineering and project management acumen. And since you seem to be confused about it, I have not worked for either Missing Worlds Media or Silverhelm Studios in any capacity. I just take it personally when my profession and my life's work are treated like used car sales because you want to be Veruca Salt in another game's forum. Their project schedule went six months without slipping, which is why they've now set a new launch date of late 2018, and that's the first date they've announced since the Kickstarter.
I can't speak for VO's schedule because I haven't been following it personally. I'm content to wait and see what they deliver. I also owe them an apology for some of the disdain I've given their early public builds.
You want answers? Go to primary sources. Here you go:
(And don't confuse City of Titans with Titan Network. That's the post-NCSoft City of Heroes forum, and it's unofficial in just about every capacity except Icon, Paragon Chat, and otherwise risking the ire of NCSoft's intellectual property lawyers.)
Sign up, read up, ask questions. I'm sure their answers will be orders of magnitude more gracious than you've been here. Just do your bloody homework before spouting off here again.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Silicon, your point missed the mark of this conversation completely. the only real difference between the development of crowdfunded games like VO and CoT and Blizzard games like D3 is WHO the status updates go to. Blizzard devs only send project updates to their boss. Crowdfunded devs send status updates to their backers and potential backers.
Tell me what your honest opinion of their work is then ask yourself why it took them so long to make it. what they've shown so far... is what I'd expect Blizzard's dev team to do and do better in a month or less. So if it takes Blizzard something like 6-10 years to develop a full game and these guys work 1/12th as fast... these developers will be done sometime in 2118. Well, assuming they haven't died of old age before then.
Then again, if "common sense", "consulting primary sources", and "reading comprehension" were in greater supply here, maybe xan and I wouldn't have to come back and smack you around for the lack of them.
You're not "smacking" anyone around. Yeah I get it, you donated and feel you need to defend the project because of that fact and because you feel some "kinship" due to your professional background. However if you want to convince people to have the same level of respect and acknowledgement for the project team's work as you apparently do, maybe you shouldn't use terms that make people feel like you're physically abusing them and assert that you're "owning" them.
You want to talk common sense? Okay, common sense tells me that I want to see actual and consistent development media releases to show how the game's development is progressing. They say a 2018 release is expected? Then I'd like to see proper gameplay footage being shown in 2017, which I don't think is unreasonable at all compared to other developers releasing gameplay media months before the expected release date, even up to a full year. Because if things are still kept under wraps nearing 2018, common sense will tell me to be very skeptical and critical of the project.
Tell me what your honest opinion of their work is then ask yourself why it took them so long to make it. what they've shown so far... is what I'd expect Blizzard's dev team to do and do better in a month or less. So if it takes Blizzard something like 6-10 years to develop a full game and these guys work 1/12th as fast... these developers will be done sometime in 2118. Well, assuming they haven't died of old age before then.
Well Blizzard has an actual development studio where staff physically report to work and spend a lot of time at the office working on their project. They're full-time employees on a payroll to make sure they do the best job they can. The studio has the best tools available in the industry to do their job. They're not a "virtual" studio made up entirely of volunteers with existing job commitments outside of the project.
Silicon, your point missed the mark of this conversation completely. the only real difference between the development of crowdfunded games like VO and CoT and Blizzard games like D3 is WHO the status updates go to. Blizzard devs only send project updates to their boss. Crowdfunded devs send status updates to their backers and potential backers.
Tell me what your honest opinion of their work is then ask yourself why it took them so long to make it. what they've shown so far... is what I'd expect Blizzard's dev team to do and do better in a month or less. So if it takes Blizzard something like 6-10 years to develop a full game and these guys work 1/12th as fast... these developers will be done sometime in 2118. Well, assuming they haven't died of old age before then.
You assume the development curve is linear. I can assure you it is not, especially if you don't have an established codebase to work from. This is true whether you're working on a game or a 2-tier business analysis database frontend. For example, there was four years between Diablo and Diablo II because Blizzard extended the original Diablo's sprite-based engine. It was eight years before they even announced Diablo III, and twelve years by time they shipped, partially because they built a new 3D engine for the game.
This is exactly why privately-funded games remain private for so long.
Then again, if "common sense", "consulting primary sources", and "reading comprehension" were in greater supply here, maybe xan and I wouldn't have to come back and smack you around for the lack of them.
You're not "smacking" anyone around. Yeah I get it, you donated and feel you need to defend the project because of that fact and because you feel some "kinship" due to your professional background. However if you want to convince people to have the same level of respect and acknowledgement for the project team's work as you apparently do, maybe you shouldn't use terms that make people feel like you're physically abusing them and assert that you're "owning" them.
You want to talk common sense? Okay, common sense tells me that I want to see actual and consistent development media releases to show how the game's development is progressing. They say a 2018 release is expected? Then I'd like to see proper gameplay footage being shown in 2017, which I don't think is unreasonable at all compared to other developers releasing gameplay media months before the expected release date, even up to a full year. Because if things are still kept under wraps nearing 2018, common sense will tell me to be very skeptical and critical of the project.
A: Figure of speech. Focus, please.
B: By all means, ignore the posters who spent most of 2016 expecting "proper gameplay footage" before a new release date was even announced. (See also: Reading comprehension.)
I tried fair and reasonable. Then somebody posted that prosthetic hand video without context back in August, and the replies made me realize that fair and reasonable had gone completely out the window. And I got dogpiled for it. It took three days for somebody to finally, kinda sorta have my back by reading the primary source instead of going on conjecture. And you wonder why I'm mad.
You want to put a1 on blast for being a complete Pollyanna about VO? Fine. All I was trying to do was set the record straight. You're welcome.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
B: By all means, ignore the posters who spent most of 2016 expecting "proper gameplay footage" before a new release date was even announced. (See also: Reading comprehension.)
My reading comprehension is fine. I haven't ignored them. Heck, I'm willing to drop my own 2016 expectation and push it over to 2017, somewhere mid to final quarter, to see if any proper videos or photos will be released. They made the 2018 release confirmation, all I'm doing is holding them up to their promise, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that the game will be in shape visually to have those promotional videos and photos released to garner interest towards the later half of 2017. After all, it's in their best interest to market the game to as many people as possible, and not just to please the backers.
And if they don't do that by then? I'll return to my vaporware perception.
I tried fair and reasonable. Then somebody posted that prosthetic hand video without context back in August, and the replies made me realize that fair and reasonable had gone completely out the window. And I got dogpiled for it. It took three days for somebody to finally, kinda sorta have my back by reading the primary source instead of going on conjecture. And you wonder why I'm mad.
You got dogpiled for it because you raged and basically went "**** you guys. I quit.". You left things on that note, you expected an actual fair and reasonable reaponse in return?
You want to put a1 on blast for being a complete Pollyanna about VO? Fine. All I was trying to do was set the record straight. You're welcome.
I put him on blast for claiming that both VO and CoT were going to leave CO in the dust. I don't need to care about CoT's development to know that that sort of crap needs to be shot down.
Then again, if "common sense", "consulting primary sources", and "reading comprehension" were in greater supply here, maybe xan and I wouldn't have to come back and smack you around for the lack of them.
Oh, is that what you think is happening in this thread? Color me amused. I think you're just being willfully ignorant of the fact that a1 doesn't just show up here and say "hey guys check this out". What he actually does is "hey guys check this out, this is going to be better than CO because CO is garbage" and then tries to imply that we're all a bunch of liars if we point out that there's nothing of substance to make that claim with. You should probably check up on what your ward is doing before jumping to their defense. My personal recommendation is to stop going nuts and just back out because whatever you're hoping to get here, you're not gonna get it sister.
After all, it's in their best interest to market the game to as many people as possible, and not just to please the backers.
Or to attract new backers. As a crowdfunded project, their backers are their life. If people lose interest in the project due to lack of progress, the project will die due to lack of funding. This is why I expect them to release things that actually look good. Instead they've been releasing crap, and very little of it. This makes me think they've not been getting anything done....
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The Nuphty is right. If you can bear to look at the old Valiance Online thread you can see that the guy starts by slating both CoT and VO, then changes to the position that he's willing to give VO a chance then finishes by claiming that VO is the messiah we've all been waiting on........ and continues to **** on CoT.
Here's the link, try not to poke your eyes out over the sheer delusion displayed....... http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1205542/valiance-online
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Vaporwars.
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But let's look at the tangible then, while you keep claiming nothing is being done to improve CO at all;
1. This one doesn't even seem remotely a complaint as I am sure constructive criticism would be valid at points when it can be handled.
2. I want to see a definition of casual you are using since 99% of the game caters to casual play. Hell, even the new "hard" content still caters to casual play since it doesn't require ludicrous set ups to actually succeed at them. Just requires people paying attention.
3. I'm sorry, but balance requires overpowered things to be brought in line as much as under performers buffed up.
4. Yes, because they've always devoted nothing but all their resources to end game content because... oh wait, that's right. End game didn't exist in Champions until this last year.
5. Or, better yet, players need to stop wanting to have their hands being held. There is nothing really punishing about the game play as it is had, considering it is the most forgiving game on the market as far as punishments are concerned.
6. This point seems to be completely made up. I doubt anyone tells you to stop having fun at any point in history of this game. The only people sore about claiming their fun is ruined are those that knew they were taking a broken and overpowered power set and abusing it. And expected it wouldn't get balanced or fixed when the devs have said for the past year balancing out the broken stuff is the goal.
7. I suggest you learn what perfect imbalance is as well. Perfect imbalance is not a reference that what is broken is fine. Perfect imbalance is a meaning that set A won't do the exact same things as set B, and thus have slight (note the word slight) advantages doing something, but will be counter acted by something that set B will do slightly better than set A. What perfect imbalance does not mean that set A will do nearly 1500 to 2000 more DPS than set B with minimalistic gear, compared to set B decked out in the best in slot you can possibly have, meanwhile set A also having ridiculous debuffing power, survivability and CC on top of it. That is not perfect imbalance, that is just called plain imbalance.
And all things considered, since you were the one who kept boasting for a year and a half, in zone chat, that CoX was returning and CO was going to die, ontop of CoT coming out soon in that time, including a bio that makes that claim, your statement of being an adult is kind of hilarious at this point.
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1) I would be delighted to see more superhero options on the market (as long as they are not much like COH). I do not wish ill for anyone investing their time, money, and effort into a labor of love. Good luck to them. It really does look as if they will need it.
2) They are not yet games from what I have seen. As far as is available to me to confirm they may some day be games but currently are not. Can't really attack something that does not exist.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I have been VERY critical of this game. I have been VERY critical of the development studio. I have interacted with MANY others who have done the same. I have engaged in discussion with others still who disagreed with me, and with others who have been critical of the game. Some of the most staunch defenders of the game, those who quite obviously love it, have also critiqued it. Scott Bennie's unofficial state of the game post, currently active on the forum, is both supportive and critical of the game...and he is one of the creator's of the IP (and writer of some of my favorite source material. I have an autographed source book or two on the shelf as I recall). Others have posted in the thread, including some of the game's defenders, agreeing with Scott's criticism.
Critique has always been allowed. Has always been pretty common to be honest. I have received support in my criticism from moderators, game supporters, and even developers. Of course there are also those who try to shoot down criticism in general because anything seen as an attack on something that they love is seen as a personal attack on them. Not surprisingly uninformed or blind attacks tend to be dismissed and comparisons to nonexistent products (every game is amazing before release) tend to be trolled for the trolling that they tend to be and deserve.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Also if you think criticism isn't allowed here then I'm not sure what threads you read when you 'checked in' on our forums, but you must have put a lot of effort into avoiding the ones criticizing the game. If you take a look around you'll notice that when criticisms are made, they are then discussed, often at length and in great detail. There's none of this "no criticism allowed" going on anywhere around here.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm willing to bet that if the same gif was put in another gaming forum thread other than CO's, the general response will still be "omg this looks $@#!".
And as Spinny has said, we don't spend a whole lot of time talking about CoT or VO. Heck, it's an extreme rarity even in the Off Topic section. We don't actively make threads just to bash and make fun of the projects. It's when people start hailing them as the messiah of superhero MMOs and start making claims that they are CO-killers, don't be surprised at the obvious response. This thread's original poster has a history of doing that.
Even if a thread is started with the honest intent to discuss the game objectively, what really do you expect the discussion to go? It's not like there's a lot to go with in terms of gameplay videos or pictures or an existing playable beta or a confirmed date of release for one. The same old defense is that "they're doing things" and to be positive. The consensus will always result in the game being vaporware.
1. Valiance Online is no closer to an alpha than CoT. Considering they regularly post Cot updates on the VO site, I find it hard to believe that they don't have some investment in it. I do not believe in projects that don't produce results. VO's result is a shoddy pre-alpha that's as bad as many of the greenlight projects it tried to release itself in. There is nothing about the VO pre-alpha that even warrants backing.
2. Considering they haven't even reached their first milestone in funding goals to even begin a fraction of the things they are talking about, it seems a tad too optimistic to say they are close to alpha. That's like saying a man smack dab in the middle of the Sahara is close to an ocean.
3. I think you can tell how much is going on by what is actually being delivered when and where. CoT has missed two deadlines already and their new deadline is now two years away, which is still exorbitantly optimistic, and once again you miss what I say because you are being caught with your pants down, again. Even if CoT was full of professional programmers I would call their 2018 deadline optimistic, because I use the experience and history of the industry as a whole to tell me the reality of how these things go, and how long and how likely it will be a product they promised. And VO, they showed a bland, featureless map, hooray, they got someone to use the paint fill option finally to put some color into their world.
Once again, Alex, you have cherry picked your targets, taking them out of context, and failed to address anything else. You get called out on the fact that let's see, both VO promised something on Steam by the end of this year, and CoT has missed it's launch window twice and will undoubtedly miss this next one, considering professional dev companies take more time than this, and the ambition of said projects, especially MMOs, in such a short time period. You are being ridiculous at this point. And I think you missed the part where I stated, point blank that I want them to prove me wrong, and you can claim that I can't see what is going on behind the scenes all day, but you can get a general gist of where the project is just by looking at what they are showing off.
Oh, and Alex, you completely missed the fact that I am probably one of the most critical of Champions, and also the fact I think I stated that I wanted these projects to prove me wrong. But once again, you fail to see that because your ego is on the line, and you think you have to defend these projects when all I am doing is pointing out the facts that you don't want to hear. These games are vaporware, promised flowers of games that have all this huge potential, and their teams are promising more than they can handle.
Also, you don't really have a leg to stand on of talking crap, when you do it in game in Champions and oh, you did it on YouTube until you deleted those posts when I kept pointing out the promises, you made in fact, about CoH, CoT and so on and how Champions was going to die. So don't give me this you are being attacked monologue and just defending something. Hell you only come out of your little hidey hole when it is CoT. After all, you were the one in game that started claiming CoH was one signature away from being revived, CO was going to die soon, oh and the mother of all statements, we shouldn't contact NCSoft to inquire about these super secret dealings because questions would scare NCSoft away from a deal. Get real here about trying to act like you were even remotely mature.
And on one last bit, before you claim some friendly competition or whatever, sorry, but people competing for what will be a small amount of players in the end, do not post potentially better work on their web site of a competing product. I tried to fight for two years to get a memorial for City of Heroes placed in Champions, but it wouldn't happen on that grounds alone, let alone NCSoft would have probably done something themselves. So don't feed me some malarkey that two games, planning to be pay to play no less, are trying to undercut themselves by posting potentially better work from their competition on their website. Hell, in VO's case, it stinks of them weighing in on potentially throwing in the towel no less.
As far as your defeatists attitude when I call you on your perfect imbalance point, please stop Alex. You damn well know you were using perfect imbalance to try and hand wave the gross imbalance Champions has with your buff everything else up statement. You tried to use the meaning of said article in a perverted manner to justify your point. No one likes nerfs but when somethings is so obviously outside the curve, when even the content is a joke, then it has to be brought in line or else the content will have to get harder leaving the underperformers behind. Hell, in warframe they just added a new frame called Nidus, and there is no way that this beast of a frame was intended to be so powerful as a healer, CC and DPS and able to carry entire groups on its own. No other frame can do that without super specializing and the ones that can require top notch modding. Nidus doesn't, so I am well aware, and most people are, that Nidus will undoubtedly receive a nerf soon.
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I get it, you feel the need to defend those works in progress. That happens when a person is invested emotionally on whatever subject. No harm in that. But skewing your defense in a way that makes it appear as if these efforts are being unjustly assaulted by people around here isn't helping your cause any.
He also has some fascinating ideal I just bash and hate on CoH, when I know I've stated I miss the Rogue Isles (not Paragon mind you) from time to time and some of the memories I had there, but the game was flawed and far from the perfect gem people give it, and the direction CoH went in left a sour taste in my mouth especially since Positron pretty much threw the Rogue Isles under a bus after a long list of promises of exclusive zones and content for villains.
It was the community of CoH that was what kept me invested as long as it did. The game play was sub par, at best, and honestly, the Rogue Isles had the best community of cut throat villains out there, while going to Paragon felt like I was just a step or two shy of going to the Barrens in WoW. But people see things differently, and while I would love a fantastic super hero MMO that espouses being a super hero, what is being promised is not that, and what CoH was was not that either. As I state, it's bad guy beat em up simulators at best, the actual super heroing stuff isn't involved. If an MMO got to the level of an Arkham game at least, in MMO format, where I could stealth, spy and decisions actually had weight and mattered and not just bullet sponge simulator 3000, then I might get more hyped.
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For you seem to have failed to notice - there IS no gameplay. The names exist, some (poorly rendered) animation exists, but the games themselves do not. One cannot offer suggestions to improve that which is not there.
Personally, I'm critiquing the companies for their continued offering of vaporware. It's amazing what your software can do, when it doesn't actually have to demonstrate that it can do it...
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Gee, a game that's two years from its announced launch date looks unfinished? I'm shocked, shocked to discover works in progress here!
I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself to the same group of people: Crowdfunding forces developers to demonstrate what privately-funded studios would never consider revealing. The only reason you can make your "HURR DURR VAPORWARE" jokes is because crowdfunding revealed that VO and CoT exist. If they were fully private, you'd probably be just learning about VO today, and CoT wouldn't even be announced yet.
Then again, if "common sense", "consulting primary sources", and "reading comprehension" were in greater supply here, maybe xan and I wouldn't have to come back and smack you around for the lack of them.
Instead, it's all misplaced anger and selfishness and unearned resentment and "F*** you for not being done yet!", best exemplified by this gem of a quote: No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
And yes, games like Diablo 3 could have shown us something even 6 months into their development. It's part of building a game engine.... You don't just pour bits into a bucket until it's full and then POOF a game engine emerges. you piece it together one routine at a time and then you TEST THEM to make sure what you've done so far actually works before adding more stuff.
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A couple of solid points there. I had wondered about all of the use of the term "vaporware" in a situation where a company is in the lengthy process of developing a product. All products are nonexistent until they exist. I hadn't considered the difference between privately funded vs crowd funding in terms of information revelation about an upcoming game. Definitely something to keep in mind IMO.
That said, people are reacting to a pattern of people coming here to compare as of yet unreleased, not just unreleased-unfunded- projects, as if they were already in existence and as if they were already demonstrably superior to the product, actual product, associated with these forums.
Reacting to that is not selfish or any other pejorative you might wish to assign.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
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And the difference between you guys and Blizzard, Blizzard hasn't even said anything about Diablo 4 so I don't get where you are getting that from. The only people talking about Diablo 4 are the Diablo fans, like Rhykker, who has been going on and on about the goodies bag they got and people jumped to conclusions about a misprinted 4 sided die. A huge difference when a company has said nothing and another company is already missed two deadlines and now pushing back their release another 2 years, and will undoubtedly miss that, or decide then is the time they need to quit.
So before you try to pass that fart off as people not understanding, and try to use the well company does X, just stop you only embarrass yourself further.
This, however, reminds me of No Man's Sky, Mighty No. 9 and other such big projects. All the hype, anticipation and so on. That epic fart let out after and deflation and outrage people had afterwards to. Considering the bitter tears over criticism, it's getting a tad silly at this point and if these people being staunch defenders, I shall remind them of those who kept saying Everquest Next would be a big thing, or back in the early days, how Shadowbane was going to be the revolutionary UO killer of its day.
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And let's not forget that certain projects got way more money than Titan project got. Never mind that VO hasn't even hit their goals, and considering several such projects had to close because they ran out of money and that was within 2 years, how do these plan to make it another 2 years?
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THIS IS MY ENTIRE G****** F****** POINT.
There are a hundred games in development right now that are under no obligation whatsoever to verify their existence or demonstrate their progress to the likes of you. Because they've crowdfunded, VO and CoT are obligated. It's hardly "hype" on the level of No Man's Sky or Mighty No. 9, it's just progress reports. And you've exploited that fact to piss all over everything they do, apparently based on nothing more than hearsay from MC /zone, which we all know is about 1000x worse than the forums.You think late 2015 was a hopelessly optimistic launch date for City of Titans? You're exactly right. I thought the same thing when I saw that on their Kickstarter. But I donated anyway. Not a lot, but not a penny either. I've been a (non-gaming) professional software developer for 22 years, so I know how engineering the foundation of a major project is fraught with complications and pitfalls. (To this day, I can stumble upon a bit of code I wrote in 1998 and wonder what the hell I was thinking.) I also recognized Nate Downes' name from his work on the Gentoo Linux distribution, so I had faith in his engineering and project management acumen. And since you seem to be confused about it, I have not worked for either Missing Worlds Media or Silverhelm Studios in any capacity. I just take it personally when my profession and my life's work are treated like used car sales because you want to be Veruca Salt in another game's forum. Their project schedule went six months without slipping, which is why they've now set a new launch date of late 2018, and that's the first date they've announced since the Kickstarter.
I can't speak for VO's schedule because I haven't been following it personally. I'm content to wait and see what they deliver. I also owe them an apology for some of the disdain I've given their early public builds.
You want answers? Go to primary sources. Here you go:
http://cityoftitans.com/forum
https://valiance.shogn.net/forums
(And don't confuse City of Titans with Titan Network. That's the post-NCSoft City of Heroes forum, and it's unofficial in just about every capacity except Icon, Paragon Chat, and otherwise risking the ire of NCSoft's intellectual property lawyers.)
Sign up, read up, ask questions. I'm sure their answers will be orders of magnitude more gracious than you've been here. Just do your bloody homework before spouting off here again.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Tell me what your honest opinion of their work is then ask yourself why it took them so long to make it. what they've shown so far... is what I'd expect Blizzard's dev team to do and do better in a month or less. So if it takes Blizzard something like 6-10 years to develop a full game and these guys work 1/12th as fast... these developers will be done sometime in 2118. Well, assuming they haven't died of old age before then.
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You want to talk common sense? Okay, common sense tells me that I want to see actual and consistent development media releases to show how the game's development is progressing. They say a 2018 release is expected? Then I'd like to see proper gameplay footage being shown in 2017, which I don't think is unreasonable at all compared to other developers releasing gameplay media months before the expected release date, even up to a full year. Because if things are still kept under wraps nearing 2018, common sense will tell me to be very skeptical and critical of the project. Well Blizzard has an actual development studio where staff physically report to work and spend a lot of time at the office working on their project. They're full-time employees on a payroll to make sure they do the best job they can. The studio has the best tools available in the industry to do their job. They're not a "virtual" studio made up entirely of volunteers with existing job commitments outside of the project.
This is exactly why privately-funded games remain private for so long. A: Figure of speech. Focus, please.
B: By all means, ignore the posters who spent most of 2016 expecting "proper gameplay footage" before a new release date was even announced. (See also: Reading comprehension.)
I tried fair and reasonable. Then somebody posted that prosthetic hand video without context back in August, and the replies made me realize that fair and reasonable had gone completely out the window. And I got dogpiled for it. It took three days for somebody to finally, kinda sorta have my back by reading the primary source instead of going on conjecture. And you wonder why I'm mad.
You want to put a1 on blast for being a complete Pollyanna about VO? Fine. All I was trying to do was set the record straight. You're welcome.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
And if they don't do that by then? I'll return to my vaporware perception. You got dogpiled for it because you raged and basically went "**** you guys. I quit.". You left things on that note, you expected an actual fair and reasonable reaponse in return? I put him on blast for claiming that both VO and CoT were going to leave CO in the dust. I don't need to care about CoT's development to know that that sort of crap needs to be shot down.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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My characters