I do not believe in projects that don't produce results.
No project produces results, until it does. Our should we expect you to whine and moan that Blizzard is a failure because they haven't shipped Diablo IV yet?
I love this epic straw man attempt. It's the most classic form of bait and switch attempt to try and prove otherwise. And yes, there would be results to show. In short, you don't like criticism, you want to be pampered and told good job for missing two deadlines and for us to have patience on something that people gave money for and pushing back said deadline another two years, on top of that. You want blind faith on something that promised a beta what was it in 2015? When I know professional companies take 8 to 10 years to get something tangible working?
And the difference between you guys and Blizzard, Blizzard hasn't even said anything about Diablo 4 so I don't get where you are getting that from. The only people talking about Diablo 4 are the Diablo fans, like Rhykker, who has been going on and on about the goodies bag they got and people jumped to conclusions about a misprinted 4 sided die. A huge difference when a company has said nothing and another company is already missed two deadlines and now pushing back their release another 2 years, and will undoubtedly miss that, or decide then is the time they need to quit.
So before you try to pass that fart off as people not understanding, and try to use the well company does X, just stop you only embarrass yourself further.
This, however, reminds me of No Man's Sky, Mighty No. 9 and other such big projects. All the hype, anticipation and so on. That epic fart let out after and deflation and outrage people had afterwards to. Considering the bitter tears over criticism, it's getting a tad silly at this point and if these people being staunch defenders, I shall remind them of those who kept saying Everquest Next would be a big thing, or back in the early days, how Shadowbane was going to be the revolutionary UO killer of its day.
What straw man? You don't know if Diablo IV is being developed today. Neither do I. Neither does anybody outside of Blizzard. I simply chose it as a representative example because
THIS IS MY ENTIRE G****** F****** POINT.
No this wasn't your entire point. Now, you're just back peddling, trying to save face for embarrassing yourself. And actually, we can take a very good guess at what Blizzard is doing by looking at their resumes for projects, but since they have not confirmed anything we can't say anything. However, since you want to back peddle at this point, your heroes at CoT did promise dates, two of them in fact, and already back peddling to 2018.
There are a hundred games in development right now that are under no obligation whatsoever to verify their existence or demonstrate their progress to the likes of you. Because they've crowdfunded, VO and CoT are obligated. It's hardly "hype" on the level of No Man's Sky or Mighty No. 9, it's just progress reports. And you've exploited that fact to piss all over everything they do, apparently based on nothing more than hearsay from MC /zone, which we all know is about 1000x worse than the forums.
Again, you have no point since a majority of them have not announced anything and those that have are actually showing physical game play, not tech demos. You know the ones that aren't showing anything or just talking big games? The crowdsourced games. Since you claim to be a software developer, I want you to tell me how many times you're investors who put money down on a product that was supposed to be delivered a year and a half ago already, felt understanding? Honestly, this doesn't smack of patience, this just smacks of gullibility at this point.
You think late 2015 was a hopelessly optimistic launch date for City of Titans? You're exactly right. I thought the same thing when I saw that on their Kickstarter. But I donated anyway. Not a lot, but not a penny either. I've been a (non-gaming) professional software developer for 22 years, so I know how engineering the foundation of a major project is fraught with complications and pitfalls. (To this day, I can stumble upon a bit of code I wrote in 1998 and wonder what the hell I was thinking.) I also recognized Nate Downes' name from his work on the Gentoo Linux distribution, so I had faith in his engineering and project management acumen. And since you seem to be confused about it, I have not worked for either Missing Worlds Media or Silverhelm Studios in any capacity. I just take it personally when my profession and my life's work are treated like used car sales because you want to be Veruca Salt in another game's forum. Their project schedule went six months without slipping, which is why they've now set a new launch date of late 2018, and that's the first date they've announced since the Kickstarter.
And if you are a big shot professional software developer (non-gaming evidently) you know that launch date by a bunch of amateur developers is still being hopelessly optimistic. Again, when a professional development company takes around eight to ten years to develop something, especially games not even promising half the features that CoT is promising, a healthy dose of skepticism is required. Especially when said development companies spend millions, not thousands, millions developing said games. This is an MMO they are trying to build, not some fly by night FPS shooter. The only games that are even remotely pumped out in that ridiculous level of time frame are franchise games (like the Madden series) and even those are often worked on at least two or three years in advance.
I can't speak for VO's schedule because I haven't been following it personally. I'm content to wait and see what they deliver. I also owe them an apology for some of the disdain I've given their early public builds.
You want answers? Go to primary sources. Here you go:
(And don't confuse City of Titans with Titan Network. That's the post-NCSoft City of Heroes forum, and it's unofficial in just about every capacity except Icon, Paragon Chat, and otherwise risking the ire of NCSoft's intellectual property lawyers.)
Sign up, read up, ask questions. I'm sure their answers will be orders of magnitude more gracious than you've been here. Just do your bloody homework before spouting off here again.
I do read them, and it's the same dross, and before you start anything, considering those developers on CoT have used Titan forums to bash CO regardless, your attempt at plugging for them is getting pathetic. You're just showing me you are someone who has a dog in the fight because you put money down on this. And nothing about their schedule has proven they are on track for anything. Again, you claim to be a professional, non-game software developer and you think 4 years for an MMO level game is still not hopelessly optimistic. You were acting this way back when they claimed the 2015 release date, again you are just back peddling and it shows. It just boils down to the fact, you put money down and like anyone who puts money down on something they want to defend that investment, even though you didn't invest in crap. You just gave money away on something that could or could not work, and at best, you might see a product but not something that will have value to return on your investment.
And before you say we don't know how much are spent to develop MMOs, considering Cryptic was using the Cryptic engine their own proprietary engine, and you make it quite clear you think that CO is a sub par product, we know for a fact that, according to Jack Emmert, for CO to have been doing well it would have needed a subscriber base of 100,000 players when it launched. That means, give or take $50 bucks for boxes, and $15 bucks a month, and assuming around $35 to the company after expenses on those boxes, you are talking around the neighborhood of at least $5 million in development of Champions, and that's only assuming he meant for one month, not for a series of months for the year. Considering estimations of WoW puts vanilla WoW's development costs around $63 million, and the $200 million to develop for the Old Republic. Of course those are just the big names.
Oh and you are far from smacking anyone around. In fact both of you two are being smacked around, from the look of things, given how your feathers get ruffled when you don't like people criticizing non-existent games. It sort of taints that ideological view of you claiming to be a software developer, especially since you should know very well that amateur developers trying to deliver a complex product like an MMO in the time frame they are talking about is well beyond optimistic.
First up its NOT a spiritual successor to City Of Heroes that would be Champions Online. City of Titans has nothing to do with CoH at all and trying to sell this non game or any other non game ( looking at you VO ) on the back of Cryptic's hard earned merit for CoH is kinda shitty.
Secondly and most important I gave like 50 bucks or something to this vaporware's Kickstarter when I should have spent it on rum.
Sometimes you get scammed out of cash. You just gotta learn from it and don't be a dumbass a second time ( or a third time I gave some cash towards Mighty No.9 also :I )
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
At this point, I'm not defending City of Titans or Valiance Online. I'm defending myself from a community that has clearly turned on me for having the unmitigated gall to disagree. You wanted a fight, now you act all offended that I'm fighting back?
Spar, you got proof MWM was bashing CO on the "Titan" forums? Links or get the f*** out.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
At this point, I'm not defending City of Titans or Valiance Online. I'm defending myself from a community that has clearly turned on me for having the unmitigated gall to disagree.
A couple of people=/= a community.
It's sad when folks try to claim that a whole community is somehow toxic because they had an argument with someone.
I like you sister, and I have no problem with you having the POV that you have stated concerning the progress of CoT/VO but I'm not sure that you get what's going on with the OP of this thread and the new Valiance Online thread. You just kind of jumped in, arms swinging and throwing accusations at a whole community.
I don't know the history between you and spar ( and don't really want to know), but believe me...... as an outsider to this beef you have..... you're coming off as a bit too emotionally invested atm.
At this point, I'm not defending City of Titans or Valiance Online. I'm defending myself from a community that has clearly turned on me for having the unmitigated gall to disagree.
A couple of people=/= a community.
It's sad when folks try to claim that a whole community is somehow toxic because they had an argument with someone.
I like you sister, and I have no problem with you having the POV that you have stated concerning the progress of CoT/VO but I'm not sure that you get what's going on with the OP of this thread and the new Valiance Online thread. You just kind of jumped in, arms swinging and throwing accusations at a whole community.
I don't know the history between you and spar ( and don't really want to know), but believe me...... as an outsider to this beef you have..... you're coming off as a bit too emotionally invested atm.
I hear you, man, but cool and rational got me thrown under the bus back in August.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
At this point, I'm not defending City of Titans or Valiance Online. I'm defending myself from a community that has clearly turned on me for having the unmitigated gall to disagree.
A couple of people=/= a community.
It's sad when folks try to claim that a whole community is somehow toxic because they had an argument with someone.
I like you sister, and I have no problem with you having the POV that you have stated concerning the progress of CoT/VO but I'm not sure that you get what's going on with the OP of this thread and the new Valiance Online thread. You just kind of jumped in, arms swinging and throwing accusations at a whole community.
I don't know the history between you and spar ( and don't really want to know), but believe me...... as an outsider to this beef you have..... you're coming off as a bit too emotionally invested atm.
I hear you, man, but cool and rational got me thrown under the bus back in August.
Uh, no cool and rational did not get you thrown under the bus. You were hostile back in August, you were hostile back in 2015. Anytime people would point out the same exact things, and it's funny I point them out again, you always get hostile. You ask for proof when they were already shown to you the last time, but you demand to see them again, or you will slink off saying people don't welcome you here when your hostile attitude is what drove you away to begin with, because people are pointing out reality you don't want to hear.
And the only history Silicon has with me is the one they make up, this fantasy I go around bashing CoH at every convenience, this made up narrative because they don't like to hear the facts. Just like they just blew off the points I just made and went straight to sounding like a four year old throwing a temper tantrum. I point out the inconsistencies in Sister's story and they go off on a tangent to left field. It's classic bait and switch.
Jesus Christ....this thread got too serious really quick.
Because when dogs are in the fight, aka money spent especially if it wasn't a small amount, then people get invested in a product trying to defend it. It's kind of that silly notion of MMO wars going around that people have that MMO X is better than MMO Y because the people spent money on it they tend to get a little defensive around it. And of course these people are throwing their CoH nostalgia behind it to because that is what CoT is banking on; that nostalgia. It's the whole premise they made; "the spiritual successor to CoH." And when it concerns CoH, instead of being thankful the game lasted for eight years, CoH players get very irrational and very hateful to anyone that doesn't agree that the game was the "best game ever" or it was part of some global conspiracy that saw it shut down. It reminds me of the console wars, when kids could rarely have multiple consoles, so you had the Nintendo fans and the Sega fans decrying which system was better and always pointing out the abject worst games for the competitor while trying to promote the best.
I know for some, they see these projects as throwing mud in the eye of NCSoft, though I doubt NCSoft couldn't care less about any of these fan projects. They are a multi-billion dollar company that has multiple franchises under their belt, I don't see them sweating this anytime soon when even the western market has proven that super hero MMOs just aren't a thing. After all they tried to launch CoH in the Asian market, and it failed, horribly.
Now I won't debate why, but I can take a guess, considering every single super hero MMO that has launched just wasn't really a super hero MMO. I can imagine that people wanting a super hero MMO wants more than just simply beating up bad guys day in and day out or basically doing what they can do, and sometimes even better, in their bog standard fantasy MMO. But that's a discussion for another time basically.
Hell I still haven't had my question answered, if Silicon is a twenty-two year veteran software developer, how many times investors sat there and were optimistic about a product that they were working on being over a year and a half late.
At this point, I'm not defending City of Titans or Valiance Online. I'm defending myself from a community that has clearly turned on me for having the unmitigated gall to disagree. You wanted a fight, now you act all offended that I'm fighting back?
So with your first post, the first thing you do is to paint everyone in the thread (except your buddy Xan) with the same brush, accusing them of having no common sense bla bla bla, use your "smack us around" figure of speech, and we are the ones wanting a fight? Really?
For what it's worth, I didn't address the whole prosthetic hand video thing months back in that thread. I do remember it. I remember your "I quit" post. I do agree that it was just a side-project and it was something blown out of proportion when the correlation was being made with CoT's development. However I don't know exactly why you decided to take things very personally with regards to it, but it seems that you're unfairly blaming the whole CO community for what you feels is a personal transgression against you.
Flaming and/or Trolling You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation.
Flaming and/or Trolling You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation.
At this point, I'm not defending City of Titans or Valiance Online. I'm defending myself from a community that has clearly turned on me for having the unmitigated gall to disagree. You wanted a fight, now you act all offended that I'm fighting back?
Spar, you got proof MWM was bashing CO on the "Titan" forums? Links or get the f*** out.
You coming into a thread to insult the people participating in a discussion that was not at all about you is not you, "defending," yourself, "from a community that has clearly turned on," you.
Perhaps you are not, "defending City of Titans or Valiance Online." What you are doing is attacking others for expressing opinions/views with which you disagree.
Comments
And before you say we don't know how much are spent to develop MMOs, considering Cryptic was using the Cryptic engine their own proprietary engine, and you make it quite clear you think that CO is a sub par product, we know for a fact that, according to Jack Emmert, for CO to have been doing well it would have needed a subscriber base of 100,000 players when it launched. That means, give or take $50 bucks for boxes, and $15 bucks a month, and assuming around $35 to the company after expenses on those boxes, you are talking around the neighborhood of at least $5 million in development of Champions, and that's only assuming he meant for one month, not for a series of months for the year. Considering estimations of WoW puts vanilla WoW's development costs around $63 million, and the $200 million to develop for the Old Republic. Of course those are just the big names.
Oh and you are far from smacking anyone around. In fact both of you two are being smacked around, from the look of things, given how your feathers get ruffled when you don't like people criticizing non-existent games. It sort of taints that ideological view of you claiming to be a software developer, especially since you should know very well that amateur developers trying to deliver a complex product like an MMO in the time frame they are talking about is well beyond optimistic.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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First up its NOT a spiritual successor to City Of Heroes that would be Champions Online. City of Titans has nothing to do with CoH at all and trying to sell this non game or any other non game ( looking at you VO ) on the back of Cryptic's hard earned merit for CoH is kinda shitty.
Secondly and most important I gave like 50 bucks or something to this vaporware's Kickstarter when I should have spent it on rum.
Sometimes you get scammed out of cash. You just gotta learn from it and don't be a dumbass a second time ( or a third time I gave some cash towards Mighty No.9 also :I )
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Spar, you got proof MWM was bashing CO on the "Titan" forums? Links or get the f*** out.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
It's sad when folks try to claim that a whole community is somehow toxic because they had an argument with someone.
I like you sister, and I have no problem with you having the POV that you have stated concerning the progress of CoT/VO but I'm not sure that you get what's going on with the OP of this thread and the new Valiance Online thread. You just kind of jumped in, arms swinging and throwing accusations at a whole community.
I don't know the history between you and spar ( and don't really want to know), but believe me...... as an outsider to this beef you have..... you're coming off as a bit too emotionally invested atm.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Love Sister Silicon Prime's PDB page btw.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
And the only history Silicon has with me is the one they make up, this fantasy I go around bashing CoH at every convenience, this made up narrative because they don't like to hear the facts. Just like they just blew off the points I just made and went straight to sounding like a four year old throwing a temper tantrum. I point out the inconsistencies in Sister's story and they go off on a tangent to left field. It's classic bait and switch.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I know for some, they see these projects as throwing mud in the eye of NCSoft, though I doubt NCSoft couldn't care less about any of these fan projects. They are a multi-billion dollar company that has multiple franchises under their belt, I don't see them sweating this anytime soon when even the western market has proven that super hero MMOs just aren't a thing. After all they tried to launch CoH in the Asian market, and it failed, horribly.
Now I won't debate why, but I can take a guess, considering every single super hero MMO that has launched just wasn't really a super hero MMO. I can imagine that people wanting a super hero MMO wants more than just simply beating up bad guys day in and day out or basically doing what they can do, and sometimes even better, in their bog standard fantasy MMO. But that's a discussion for another time basically.
Hell I still haven't had my question answered, if Silicon is a twenty-two year veteran software developer, how many times investors sat there and were optimistic about a product that they were working on being over a year and a half late.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
For what it's worth, I didn't address the whole prosthetic hand video thing months back in that thread. I do remember it. I remember your "I quit" post. I do agree that it was just a side-project and it was something blown out of proportion when the correlation was being made with CoT's development. However I don't know exactly why you decided to take things very personally with regards to it, but it seems that you're unfairly blaming the whole CO community for what you feels is a personal transgression against you.
Flaming and/or Trolling
You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Perhaps you are not, "defending City of Titans or Valiance Online." What you are doing is attacking others for expressing opinions/views with which you disagree.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.