Upselling getting out of hand

jadejade3 · October 2016

As the title says, people, if you think you are helping other by trying to lower prices, sorry you aren't. If you already knew that, good, if you didn't then take notes. You are only giving more stuff for these upsellers, to buy them and put it back up for twice to thrice the price. Keep your prices so high that they don't make their 'margin' and 'nobody cares if I made 500g over your item', implying, everything above 2k g's. Have fun upselling that as well.

- Removed invalid content. Please review the forum rules.

jonsills · October 2016

I'm trying to help myself by undercutting the current low price. I get the Resources, and frankly I don't give a flying Foxbat what the buyer does with the item at that point. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

jadejade3 · October 2016

Lets say person A sold something for 500g, that you'd want to 'use', to an upseller (they are pretty quick), thinking while he was helping himself, at the same time he'd help some other guy (you) with a slightly lower, more reasonable price. The upseller puts it back up for 1k g. Similarly, after a while (assuming you didn't have the item or g's at the time person A put the item), you sell and equivalent item that person A wants to 'use', for 500g, to an upseller. The upseller puts your item for 1k as well. Now, Person A has 500g, you have 500g. The equivalent items both of you wanted to 'use', are 1k g. While you both farm 1 more item to sell for 500g which will be bought and put up for 1k too, to afford the item that is now 1k, the upseller has made 2k. Who are you helping again? Please explain ;D

magpieuk2014 · October 2016

What he's trying to say is that he doesn't care if people upsell, and in doing so if they restrict supply and increase prices. What can you do? I've got all manner of rare things floating around on my toons which I'd love to sell, or even give away, to people who actually wanted it. But I can't. Because they think you're a scammer, or they start to over negotiate, in the hope of getting themselves a better bargain than this Bargain (which comes with a 50ft sign saying "Bargain" and a small fireworks display). So in the AH it goes, and que sera sera.

mithrosnomore · October 2016

jadejade3 said:
. Who are you helping again? Please explain ;D

Me.

I am helping me.

That seems to be what you aren't understanding.

That that price range is very small, the actual listing price of whatever it is that is being sold, also makes this largely a non-issue.

I mean, if something costs someone 10G to list at whatever price they want to sell it at, then that only lets people under your plan work within that 10G to undercut someone, and at the prices once things start costing that much to list?

Not really significant.

If I list something selling for 250G at 245G, how much difference does that make? How much does that help that someone struggling to make some influence?

But if I need 150G and I have something that I think I can sell for 150G, what do I care if someone else buys it and lists it at 250G?

I got the influence I wanted.
I'm good.

Good luck with the re-selling.

Heck, if I was so confident that I could sell it for 250 or whatever they re-list it at then I would have probably listed it at 250 myself and no one saves anything.
At least the way I did it then someone that really wants/needs the item *MIGHT* save themselves a few G.

jadejade3 · October 2016

Yeah, he might not care, but in the end, he is effectively shortchanged, and wonders why is everything over-valued when he needs to buy and *cough* use *cough* something, while the upseller makes a killing. It may not be his circus or his monkeys anymore, but when he returns to enjoy the same, the ticket he was selling when he ran the show, just got doubled in price right after he sold/put it up. If he thinks it is a fair deal, well, props to him.

The obvious solution, which I don't expect to be implemented,
1. give people the option to ID cap an item to +- 5% of the intial price/value it was put up or traded for.
2. Any non-bound/bound to account item can be accessed freely through mail or shared bank on the same account.
3. i. If the item was originally traded for an item(s), the game could log ah sell history, account for the number of items and determine the equivalent average price in globals. Eg. if I trade for 6keys, and keys are usually sold for 105g each on ah, the equivalent price is 630g and the item will be capped to it and so on.
ii. If the item was traded for resources, the same rule to cap the resell price applies.
iii. If two or more original items of unequal value (by ah history) are traded, the items of higher value will be marked down to the lower value item. Eg. If both traders knowingly trade some item(s) usually going for 500g, for something historically averaging 1.5k g, the 1.5k g item is capped to 500g to the new owner, while the 500g item retains its value to the trade partner. This will easily prevent upsells.
iv. Continuing iii, If I bought something for 500g, and want to give it to a friend, I can give it to him for any price lower than cap, and that item is subsequently capped to that price. So he wont be making a secret profit out of it, and is artificially forced to use it - which was the point of doing it in the first place. Unless he asks the orginal owner to uncap it. If he doesn't respond within 4 months, it will be uncapped.
v. Items resold on ah for less than 5% of original cap are not considered in value determination, to prevent devalue of original items. Cap values are static, and are determined at the time of trading.

This way, items will be bought or traded to be used, not to be upsold, and you can help yourself, make your impact etc etc without losing out on your item in the big scheme of interconnected things. If that sounds blasphemous, ok. If you can find a flaw in the solution, kindly highlight, so I can better my understanding. I would love to see how it plays out ;p

jadejade3 · October 2016

mithrosnomore said:

jadejade3 said:
. Who are you helping again? Please explain ;D
Heck, if I was so confident that I could sell it for 250 or whatever they re-list it at then I would have probably listed it at 250 myself and no one saves anything.
At least the way I did it then someone that really wants/needs the item *MIGHT* save themselves a few G.

Exactly why I suggested putting everything up for 2k g in the first post, to the people who weren't in the know. And no, you likely sold it to an upseller

jonsills · October 2016

That's another easy one.

I don't buy things on the AH, by and large. I've been known to pick up the occasional Cosmic Key, but the public trading in those in Chat restricts the price to somewhere in the vicinity of 100G. So if I sell, say, a rare Aura for 300G when it's going for 350 generally, I've helped myself to 300G I didn't have before, and gotten rid of an Aura I didn't want to boot. From my perspective, it's win-win. (Incidentally, I have been known to market a few things for far below their going rate on the AH, mostly because I lacked the wherewithal to price them any higher - there's a charge to post things, you know.)

If I were worried about "helping" others, I wouldn't be selling the silly things, I'd be giving them away. (BTW, does anyone want a Floating Candle aura? I don't make the kinds of characters that would look good with them, but the price on the AH doesn't make it worth my while to sell them. I've also got a number of Undead Hero body parts I have no desire for, because I don't use action figures. And yes, they're free, because as I said it's not worth the trouble to sell them.)

jadejade3 · October 2016

You all seem to be underestimating the scale. That determination secondary I put up for 650g, was back on for 1600g. The telios back that was bought for ~600g, was put back up for 1800g. The raptor head I put for 800g was put back up for 3000g. One time is fine, three even. But day in day out is getting quite suspicious. You could say I am undervaluing things. I am undervaluing if they'd be the only piece on ah. I never undercut if the price on the only other sample is reasonable. I undervalue things to be genuinely used, not to be upsold in the next instance. Even I wont bother with '250 and I sold for 245' or '350 and I sold for 300'. Those are easily within range. If people are that fine with it, nice to know, you can give me all your free stuff, or stuff you'd sell for ~20%+ cheaper, to help yourself as I understand, while I put them on ah to sponsor my retcons. You can count on me, I will gladly help you as much as I can - and I'm not even joking. Just send them in my mail or pm. Thanks.

decorumfriends · October 2016

jonsills said:
I'm trying to help myself by undercutting the current low price. I get the Resources, and frankly I don't give a flying Foxbat what the buyer does with the item at that point. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

No doubt. Player driven markets will do what they do, it's no concern of mine. I price stuff to sell, so I can just get rid of it and not have to think about it.

jonsills · October 2016

Jade, once you sell something, it's not yours any more. You don't get to tell the new owner what to do with it. If they want to resell it for a higher price, well, that's capitalism for you. You don't have to like it, you just have to accept it. If that's not going to work for you, stop selling things on the AH, and only give them to people who will pinky-swear that they're going to use them. (And then be prepared for some of those people to lie to you and go sell those items for what the market will bear.)

decorumfriends · October 2016

Frankly, how I deal with high prices on the AH is...look at the item and decide if I want to pay it or do without. You'll get absolutely nowhere trying to "inform" and cajole people into using it in any way they don't feel like in an attempt to add some kind of mythical fairness.

jadejade3 · October 2016

Well, I tried. Instead of accepting it, I will embrace it. Please people, help me take part in capitalism, and player driven market, with your stuff I will upsell right away (send it all in my mail) - so that incase you need something later on, enjoy paying 6x the price (apparently my 3x is the actual value) make me richer, and accept it, because we dont live in a land of fairies, and we are incapable of honoring each other. Splendid.

decorumfriends · October 2016

Heh, yes, overreacting in the other direction is exactly the ticket.

Seriously, why are you even worried about it? Buy what you want, sell for what you want, what happens to it afterward is nothing you have control over, nor should you. How does it affect you in any way if someone buys your stuff and resells it?

biffsmackwell · October 2016

magpieuk2014 said:
What he's trying to say is that he doesn't care if people upsell, and in doing so if they restrict supply and increase prices. What can you do? I've got all manner of rare things floating around on my toons which I'd love to sell, or even give away, to people who actually wanted it. But I can't. Because they think you're a scammer, or they start to over negotiate, in the hope of getting themselves a better bargain than this Bargain (which comes with a 50ft sign saying "Bargain" and a small fireworks display). So in the AH it goes, and que sera sera.

What you can do is stop using the auction, and if you see someone upselling your goods, stop selling to them. Get in the Trade channel, sell stuff there. But like Jon said though, once you've sold, it's not yours anymore and they're free to do with it what they want. But if you want to avoid that, you'll have to start a blacklist of who not to sell to.

As far as "scamming" goes, that's no longer a problem. The trade tech has been basically foolproofed, so start selling in Trade or Zone, and avoid Auction fees, and sell to people you like. There's your solution.

flyingfinn · October 2016

It's a superhero based mmorpg, not a Auction House Tycoon.
I sell my stuff to get rid of it. Seems the reasons for others also.
I don't have time or interest of spending hours in AH to try to make bestest sell or gain most of Gs from some stuff that i allready own or have no need of.
Or i just give it away for free. To my friends and fellow countrymen.
My real or imaginary kids wont starve.

Buying something for 300 and putting it back for 3000. And getting someone to buy it.... I guess there are idjot tonystarks who buy overpriced stuff even in a computergame.

But then again. People are free to do what ever they like.

jennymachx · October 2016

jadejade3 said:
Well, I tried. Instead of accepting it, I will embrace it. Please people, help me take part in capitalism, and player driven market, with your stuff I will upsell right away (send it all in my mail) - so that incase you need something later on, enjoy paying 6x the price (apparently my 3x is the actual value) make me richer, and accept it, because we dont live in a land of fairies, and we are incapable of honoring each other. Splendid.

Oh get over yourself.

Please stop talking as if you are the only person in the whole playerbase with rare, in-demand goods to sell on the AH.

I don't have to "accept" you artificially inflating the value of something out of some self-righteous vindication. I can simply look elsewhere. This expectation that people should adhere to some personal moral code of yours in how they should resell what you've sold to them has nothing to do with "honor"; it's entitlement, and whatever you're entitled to doing with that item ended when you chose to transfer ownership of it to someone else.

jadejade3 · October 2016

decorumfriends said:

Buy what you want, sell for what you want, what happens to it afterward is nothing you have control over, nor should you. How does it affect you in any way if someone buys your stuff and resells it?

Guess you missed my 'why should you care' comment:

jadejade3 said:
Lets say person A sold something for 500g, that you'd want to 'use', to an upseller (they are pretty quick), thinking while he was helping himself, at the same time he'd help some other guy (you) with a slightly lower, more reasonable price. The upseller puts it back up for 1k g. Similarly, after a while (assuming you didn't have the item or g's at the time person A put the item), you sell and equivalent item that person A wants to 'use', for 500g, to an upseller. The upseller puts your item for 1k as well. Now, Person A has 500g, you have 500g. The equivalent items both of you wanted to 'use', are 1k g. While you both farm 1 more item to sell for 500g which will be bought and put up for 1k too, to afford the item that is now 1k, the upseller has made 2k.

Effectively, you end up paying 2x for the same thing.

jennymachx said:

Oh get over yourself.

Please stop talking as if you are the only person in the whole playerbase with rare, in-demand goods to sell on the AH.

I don't have to "accept" you artificially inflating the value of something out of some self-righteous vindication. I can simply look elsewhere. This expectation that people should adhere to some personal moral code of yours in how they should resell what you've sold to them has nothing to do with "honor"; it's entitlement, and whatever you're entitled to doing with that item ended when you chose to transfer ownership of it to someone else.

Vindication? I am merely going with the flow. Because its ok to do that I guess, since they wont be your or your friend's items any more and you don't have a say in them. Yeah my occassional sells are sort of rare and in-demand, with upsellers.

Trade chat has a few of its own characters as well. A few minutes after selling, I see the guy advertising the same item. I pm to say I want to buy it. Then he adds 200g to the price. I'm like did you forget what you bought it for already? Why did you buy it if you aren't going to use it? And I don't have the luxury to spam it 24/7 like I notice some.

I may not have a say in what you do with the item, but is genuinely using what you buy instead of upselling for 3x right away really thaaat much to ask? Looks like it to me from your responses. Thank you for letting me know. Thank you for letting me learn. The purpose of this thread has been served.

jennymachx · October 2016

jadejade3 said:
Vindication? I am merely going with the flow. Because its ok to do that I guess, since they wont be your or your friend's items any more and you don't have a say in them. Yeah my occassional sells are sort of rare and in-demand, with upsellers.

That's exactly right, because that's how trade works. You trade something away and get something else you feel equal in value in return. You longer get juristiction over how that something you traded away is being used, so yes, it's completely okay to do it. The new owner of that item you traded away to then decides or not to make an upsell to earn a profit. You don't have a say in anything because the new owner and you have no contract agreement to meet your demands as to how that new owner uses that item, thus that new owner has no obligation to follow your demands.

Because that's how reality works, special snowflake.

jadejade3 said:
Trade chat has a few of its own characters as well. A few minutes after selling, I see the guy advertising the same item. I pm to say I want to buy it. Then he adds 200g to the price. I'm like did you forget what you bought it for already? Why did you buy it if you aren't going to use it? And I don't have the luxury to spam it 24/7 like I notice some.

Since when has there been this requirement that someone who buys something from you has an obligation to you to exclusively "use it" and not immediately sell it away?

Sounds like entitlement!

jadejade3 said:
I may not have a say in what you do with the item, but is genuinely using what you buy instead of upselling for 3x right away really thaaat much to ask? Looks like it to me from your responses. Thank you for letting me know. Thank you for letting me learn. The purpose of this thread has been served.

Yes, it is really that much to ask, especially when you demand it in an obnoxious, self-entitled manner.

jadejade3 · October 2016

Yes, thank you. I got your point. However,

jennymachx said:

I don't have to "accept" you artificially inflating the value of something out of some self-righteous vindication. I can simply look elsewhere.

So, you wont accept artificial inflation when I do it that way, but its ok if I or someone else does it, for 'me' profit?

jaazaniah1 · October 2016

I always try to have a couple thousand globals on hand to buy stuff I want in the AH. A fair amount of that comes from selling stuff I've farmed at prices that are fair to me. My stuff sells and I am happy. If for some reason I need some more globals I sell some cosmic keys that I've bought with my monthly stipend (500/month; since I am LTS for a couple years now that's basically free for me). I've even been known to buy some extra Zen to buy keys to sell at the AH if there is something pricey I really want. The cost of this game for me is so cheap compared to other forms of entertainment that I won't quibble about $10 spent here and there.

jennymachx · October 2016

jadejade3 said:
So, you wont accept artificial inflation when I do it that way, but its ok if I or someone else does it, for 'me' profit?

Oh, it has to do with specifically the bolded part of what you said earlier:

jadejade3 said:
Well, I tried. Instead of accepting it, I will embrace it. Please people, help me take part in capitalism, and player driven market, with your stuff I will upsell right away (send it all in my mail) - so that incase you need something later on, enjoy paying 6x the price (apparently my 3x is the actual value) make me richer, and accept it, because we dont live in a land of fairies, and we are incapable of honoring each other. Splendid.

It has to do with you condescendingly telling people that they better "suck it up" when paying for your inflated prices and with you gloating how you'd get richer and how people have to accept it. All because you got your panties in a bunch when people rightfully pointed out the realities of a free market. Gee, I wonder why I said I'd look elsewhere.

jadejade3 · October 2016

Woo. Pardon me incase.
Now when I decide to play the upseller after learning the realities of free trade, and openly condescend 'other people to suck it up' to my inflated prices, it suddenly becomes wrong and obnoxious behaviour - which is the issue I was bringing forward in the first place. If you didn't have a look at the screenshot I linked at my original post, he graciously (only I can be condescending, I think) says "thank you for good prices" "i give you back for 900g" "I give 650g, you give fire aura: body and 2x duc" when I question him on his 'acceptable' upsell practices. Right to information people, I wanted to know what he thinks, and I got my answer. Now obviously, noone's going to be doing that trade. But the point is, it highlights the very behaviour/thought process you called me out on. Is that not condescending/gloating? If you think his mindset, and the one I developed in this thread aren't similar, then hmm, that creates an unprecedented issue. Maybe I shouldn't say 'I'm an upseller, I'll buy your cheap to upsell 2x, I'll help you'.
These upsellers are secretly (or kindly I imagine, they may do no wrong) asking you and me to 'suck it up' while they, inflate prices and laugh away to the bank. To me, an upseller (right away, appreciation period flung straight out the window) is condescending/immoral, albiet passively. Atleast don't make it so damn obvious that I know it is the same item. (The advantage of rare items which I seem to be 'boasting' of selling to upsellers. When a sample of the item that you put up isn't already there, and sold, is back on/advertised for 3x the price within 10min, you know it is the very item, not mine anymore, He is trying to make 2x on. Who are we kidding). And if I didn't misinterpret, when I brought out the behind the scenes and wish to do the exact same thing that he does, admittedly with my panties in a bunch, I am condescending to you. But he is not to you, even a tiny bit. So why can't I be him? If i dont gloat openly its fine?

decorumfriends · October 2016

jadejade3 said:

Guess you missed my 'why should you care' comment:

jadejade3 said:
Lets say person A sold something for 500g, that you'd want to 'use', to an upseller (they are pretty quick), thinking while he was helping himself, at the same time he'd help some other guy (you) with a slightly lower, more reasonable price. The upseller puts it back up for 1k g. Similarly, after a while (assuming you didn't have the item or g's at the time person A put the item), you sell and equivalent item that person A wants to 'use', for 500g, to an upseller. The upseller puts your item for 1k as well. Now, Person A has 500g, you have 500g. The equivalent items both of you wanted to 'use', are 1k g. While you both farm 1 more item to sell for 500g which will be bought and put up for 1k too, to afford the item that is now 1k, the upseller has made 2k.
Effectively, you end up paying 2x for the same thing.

No, that's why you think I should care (which I don't...Gs are like water in this game, I don't care what I pay if I want something). I asked how it affects you in any way. It's not like you're going to buy it back at double the price.

vorshoth · October 2016

This is literally how upselling works. What eventually happens is a stable price after which a consumer will not buy it will emerge.

So let's say a vehicle's true worth is... 500G, and someone sells it for that.

Now, with good marketing and tge right customer, a seller could maybe get 600, 700 for that.

That's fine. That's how economies work. Money flows. Goods are traded.

Then a numbskull decides to sell the vehicle for 1000G, beyond what is reasonable.

He 'might' get a customer, but it's unlikely to ever turn a profit. That seller, in his greed, has actually lost money in time, auction house space, and effort.

And so the world turns.

It sucks that the item is going to a customer who won't use it, but that's the way the cookie crumbles in a virtual mini-economy.

jadejade3 · October 2016

decorumfriends said:
It's not like you're going to buy it back at double the price.

Yeah, should have clarified further, not the exact same thing, but something I'd think to be of equivalent value. Say you get a raptor head 2 and think you didn't really need it at the time. You sold it for x g. Two weeks later, I get a raptor head 1, which I don't think I need at the moment, and I put it up for x g. But our upseller grabs it. Now we both have x g each, by selling at prices we thought were reasonable within range of each other's. We didn't have plans to use them, so we didn't think to trade them at the time. But a week or so later, we decide to make new characters, for whom you want the raptor head 1 which I sold for x g, and I want the raptor head 2 which you sold for x g. We both look on ah and ask around. But any new/subsequent piece in circulation is now at 3x g, since they weren't used by the respective buyer, just put back and inflated. If you don't think to yourself 'those certainly aren't worth that much, I am not paying 3x for what isn't actually worth and sold a similar item for x' and you pay the 3x g, giving 2x g extra to someone who didn't originally get the item in the first place and is merely upselling/inflating the actual price, then be my guest. Kindly hand me over half of your g's.
But, blasphemous as it may sound, if we remove the upseller, you are able to get what you wanted and value for x, and I am able to get what I wanted and valued x within margin. Real world, free trade, no obligations, no moral code, 'me me', capitalism are all fine, because that's the way it is. However, would it be so bad to be just reasonable to each other. Call them exorcists on me i guess. xD

I can't break it down any more to you. If I failed to make you understand how I'd be affected, I assume you are, but apparently you aren't, it is my failure indeed.

aesica · October 2016

Think of this as a lesson in economics, folks. You can cut back on people relisting your items at a markup price by....

1) Research the selling price more carefully. If you sell a thing for 50g that's actually worth 500, of course I'm going to buy it and relist it. (Unless I actually need it, in which case...jackpot!)

2) Undercut the other guy by a smaller amount. People will generally buy the cheapest one whether items are listed as 499/500/500/550 or 250/500/500/550.

3) You don't always have to undercut the cheapest item. If a [Thing] is selling for 10/80/80/85/85/90/90, don't undercut the 10 guy. Buy the 10 guy's item and relist it yourself, or just undercut the 80s by relisting for 79.

jadejade3 · October 2016

aesica said:
Think of this as a lesson in economics, folks. You can cut back on people relisting your items at a markup price by....

1) Research the selling price more carefully. If you sell a thing for 50g that's actually worth 500, of course I'm going to buy it and relist it. (Unless I actually need it, in which case...jackpot!)

2) Undercut the other guy by a smaller amount. People will generally buy the cheapest one whether items are listed as 499/500/500/550 or 250/500/500/550.

3) You don't always have to undercut the cheapest item. If a [Thing] is selling for 10/80/80/85/85/90/90, don't undercut the 10 guy. Buy the 10 guy's item and relist it yourself, or just undercut the 80s by relisting for 79.

Indeed. Good points. Though it isnt about selling stuff for 5x-10x below its actual worth. It is about selling stuff close to its actual worth, but being bought and marked up instantly. We continue to see the inflated price, feed upsellers, and subconciously accept it to be the new worth, only to be marked up further. All for something that isn't actually worth the new price. Somewhat like the housing bubble but without the burst. I certainly don't have the best understanding of economics, but I think we all are loosely aware of how real world financial crashes occur, not that I am expecting similar to happen here however ;p

pantagruel01 · October 2016

The other thing about upselling is that, of course, it might not actually sell at the higher price.

roughbearmattach · October 2016

The upseller is taking a risk, of course. Considering that the AH has a listing fee, it is a real risk.

jennymachx · October 2016

jadejade3 said:
These upsellers are secretly (or kindly I imagine, they may do no wrong) asking you and me to 'suck it up' while they, inflate prices and laugh away to the bank. To me, an upseller (right away, appreciation period flung straight out the window) is condescending/immoral, albiet passively. Atleast don't make it so damn obvious that I know it is the same item. (The advantage of rare items which I seem to be 'boasting' of selling to upsellers. When a sample of the item that you put up isn't already there, and sold, is back on/advertised for 3x the price within 10min, you know it is the very item, not mine anymore, He is trying to make 2x on. Who are we kidding). And if I didn't misinterpret, when I brought out the behind the scenes and wish to do the exact same thing that he does, admittedly with my panties in a bunch, I am condescending to you. But he is not to you, even a tiny bit. So why can't I be him? If i dont gloat openly its fine?

Unless the upseller is openly and verbally declaring something like "buy from me and if you don't like my prices, deal with it", then no, there is nothing condescending about it. Either accept their prices or walk away. It's really that simple. Saying that it's condescending and immoral is all in your head.

And once again, whatever the person who have just bought your item decides to do with it, even with selling it at an inflated price higher than what you sold it to them for, it's really non of your business, because you don't own it anymore. You got what you sold it for, move along. If it bothers you that much, restrict your trade activities with people whom you trust not to resort to doing the same thing. Outside of that, free market economics are out of your control. Standing on your soapbox and demanding that people follow some unwritten moral code is pointless.

I don't know why you have to assume that everyone who decides to upsell at inflated prices perceived as unreasonable is by default making loads of money with their upsell tactics. Interested buyers are able to discern for themselves if the price is unreasonable and not give the seller the money. On the other hand a buyer with loads of globals to spend freely might not even care as long as they get what they're looking for.

Besides, you already stated that you will "embrace" such similar tactics, so the whole morality argument on your part goes out the window doesn't it?

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

decorumfriends · October 2016

jadejade3 said:

decorumfriends said:
It's not like you're going to buy it back at double the price.

Yeah, should have clarified further, not the exact same thing, but something I'd think to be of equivalent value. Say you get a raptor head 2 and think you didn't really need it at the time. You sold it for x g. Two weeks later, I get a raptor head 1, which I don't think I need at the moment, and I put it up for x g. But our upseller grabs it. Now we both have x g each, by selling at prices we thought were reasonable within range of each other's. We didn't have plans to use them, so we didn't think to trade them at the time. But a week or so later, we decide to make new characters, for whom you want the raptor head 1 which I sold for x g, and I want the raptor head 2 which you sold for x g. We both look on ah and ask around. But any new/subsequent piece in circulation is now at 3x g, since they weren't used by the respective buyer, just put back and inflated. If you don't think to yourself 'those certainly aren't worth that much, I am not paying 3x for what isn't actually worth and sold a similar item for x' and you pay the 3x g, giving 2x g extra to someone who didn't originally get the item in the first place and is merely upselling/inflating the actual price, then be my guest. Kindly hand me over half of your g's.
But, blasphemous as it may sound, if we remove the upseller, you are able to get what you wanted and value for x, and I am able to get what I wanted and valued x within margin. Real world, free trade, no obligations, no moral code, 'me me', capitalism are all fine, because that's the way it is. However, would it be so bad to be just reasonable to each other. Call them exorcists on me i guess. xD

I can't break it down any more to you. If I failed to make you understand how I'd be affected, I assume you are, but apparently you aren't, it is my failure indeed.

I completely deny that that's "being reasonable to each other". It's no one's job to keep the prices down to where you personally think they should be. In a market like this, there are no real values. Things are worth exactly what you can get someone else to pay for them. You know what an "upseller" buying your stuff really means (in many cases)? Your asking price is too low.

guyhumual · October 2016

Up sellers are good for business really, if I see something for a ridiculous price in the AH, and I have the same item, I'll sell it closer to what I think it's worth and then when someone searches for the item they're buying mine instead of the crazy price. I always check to see what others are selling at and then under cut them.

chaelk · October 2016

so the OP is all for price fixing.

If someone wants to spend their time buying and selling to make money, that's up to them. I will sell my items at the price, i feel like.You want to sell yours higher, go for it.
don't assume that everything sold cheap is being bought by a reseller.
Shock horror, some people actually buy them to use themselves.
Don't assume everyone is fixated on getting as much money as possible, as you seem to be.

example:
day 1 of a lockbox- costumes/vehicles may be 2500G each
day 2- more opened, more available prices drop.
day 7- loads of them, prices are much lower and the ones which sell are the cheaper ones, the high price ones, stay there

IN WOW someone tried fixing the price of a component by buying any under their price and reposting.
The guild I was in, got together and farmed loads of it and sold it cheap, so they had to keep buying it to resell.
They gave up after a few weeks and the price dropped.

roughbearmattach · October 2016

guyhumual said:
Up sellers are good for business really, if I see something for a ridiculous price in the AH, and I have the same item, I'll sell it closer to what I think it's worth and then when someone searches for the item they're buying mine instead of the crazy price. I always check to see what others are selling at and then under cut them.

This here ^^

I do this most of the time when I sell items. Works great.

warcanch · October 2016

I'm HAPPY that there is a 5% non-refundable cost each time you post something to the Auction House. I simply am amazed at people posting things like a GOLD ROCK for 10,000 G. They just spent 500 G on something that shouldn't sell at all.

lezard21 · October 2016

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already or not but you should consider blacking out the names on that screenshot.

Call outs are against forum ToS

pantagruel01 · October 2016

In any case, there's a simple method for dealing with upselling: don't buy if the price seems too high, and don't post at super-low values.

markhawkman · October 2016

lezard21 said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already or not but you should consider blacking out the names on that screenshot.

Call outs are against forum ToS

too late. Kaiz nailed it...

mithrosnomore · November 2016

jadejade3 said:

Effectively, you end up paying 2x for the same thing.

No I don't.

If I wanted the thing, whatever it was, then I almost certainly kept it when I had it.

I keep a great many things.
I have a whole lot of unbound auras in storage "just in case". If I get a costume piece, I either go ahead and unlock it or I put it in a bank to keep for a while... Just in case. Right now I have a Takofanes Throne device sitting in the bank.
I am almost certainly going to be listing that before too long, but I have been thinking about totally reworking a couple of characters and figured I would hold on to the thing. You know? Just in case.

But the prices themselves? In the event that I *did* decide that I would like to have something that I sold off earlier?

I have this uncanny ability to look at a price for something I want, decide that it's too high, and not buy it.

It's amazing, really.

I am not offended by that person's choice of prices; I do not wonder whether they bought the item for a far cheaper price and just re-listed it for whatever it's at now.

I just look at the prices, decide if I will pay them, and then either make the purchases or move on without anger or resentment.

And this works the other way, too.
Sometimes I look at the AH, decide that the prices people are asking for this thing I was thinking of selling is too low, and so I will stash the item for a little while and check back periodically to see what it is selling for at that time.

I am not upset at those other people for selling something for a cost I think is a little too low.

Why?

Because it's their item to sell. They can sell it for whatever they want to sell it for.

I sure don't come to the forums and make a thread telling them that they need to sell for more because bad people are buying up everything that is cheap.

That presumes a level of knowledge that I, and you, do not have.

And for what it's worth, if I saw that someone had mis-priced a Throne at 150G or whatever, you can bet that I would snap it up and re-sell it for something closer to what others are selling it for.
If I saw *anything* priced far below what I think the item is worth then I would at least consider buying it.

If I wanted the item then sure, I use it. If not, though? Yeah, I might re-list it. So what?

spinnytop · November 2016

I'm gonna keep selling stuff cheap in order to get my pocket full of resources u3u

furries2 · November 2016

Not sure if anyone ever heard of TP (Trade Post or in our game Auction House) Flipping. It's always been curious if anyone played the Fliping game with the Auction House when it comesto items and price.

decorumfriends · November 2016

I don't know about any game. "Upselling" is "flipping" (if I'm taking the term from real estate correctly).

mithrosnomore · November 2016

furries2 said:
Not sure if anyone ever heard of TP (Trade Post or in our game Auction House) Flipping. It's always been curious if anyone played the Fliping game with the Auction House when it comesto items and price.

That's what we are talking about here.

Not sure how many people spend that much time scouring the AH for steals, but if someone happens to stumble across something they think they can flip for some fast influence, keys, or even a trade for something they really want, why not do it?

furries2 · November 2016

decorumfriends wrote: »

I don't know about any game. "Upselling" is "flipping" (if I'm taking the term from real estate correctly).

mithrosnomore wrote: »

That's what we are talking about here.

Not sure how many people spend that much time scouring the AH for steals, but if someone happens to stumble across something they think they can flip for some fast influence, keys, or even a trade for something they really want, why not do it?

I figured it sounded fimilar beacuse I play Guild Wars 2. Just thought I bring it up. GW2 Players called it Flipping, never knew what we call it here for us until now.

spinnytop · November 2016

Bacon Overlord o3o

nepht · November 2016

jadejade3 said:
As the title says, people, if you think you are helping other by trying to lower prices, sorry you aren't. If you already knew that, good, if you didn't then take notes. You are only giving more stuff for these upsellers, to buy them and put it back up for twice to thrice the price. Keep your prices so high that they don't make their 'margin' and 'nobody cares if I made 500g over your item', implying, everything above 2k g's. Have fun upselling that as well.

- Removed invalid content. Please review the forum rules.

People can sell items on AH for as little and as high as they want.

The real issue is why didn't I see this insane rant before and why didn't you guys not inform me there was new stupid here? You know I enjoy stuff like this its my endgame.

chaelk · November 2016

in WOW it was called price fixing

kyastral · November 2016

Hmm.. I dont see what the problem is.

I remember when there was no *in game AH marketplace* in MMO's and you had to rely solely on other players who were willing to sell their unwanted items. Back then, you had to either find the places where players gathered to trade and sell their items and/or use whatever trade channel was available. It was a lot harder to keep track of who sold their items at reasonable prices and who overpriced their items, especially when players would change their minds about the price of their items the minute they hear about someone else selling the same item for more resources (no posting fee back then, either). So yeah, I have a high appreciation for modern in-game AH marketplaces.

Now, I agree that the prices can get out of hand. Well, I don't have to buy those items. I can also sell my unwanted items for as cheap as I want; that is my choice. That is the operative word here, choice. If someone wants to put effort into working the stock market (buy low, sell high), then more power to them; that is their choice. Players have always had a choice as to what they wanted to buy/sell their items for, even back in the days when buying/selling between players was a new and shiny thing in MMO's.

In my opinion, having fixed prices are for most console games and offline/single player computer games, not for MMO's (computer and console).

markhawkman · November 2016

Also the relative value of items is not fixed. some items, like say, the Blood Moon Gadgets.... are only available certain times of the year. Or like the Venomous Mod, have a limited time promotion window where they're easily obtainable, and must be bought for GCR afterwards.

Upselling getting out of hand

Comments