CO has made no progress since going F2P.

spinnytop · October 2016

According to this article we are still in a state of "semi-torpor". Discuss o3o

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/10/10/the-rpg-scrollbars-some-little-things-ive-loved-vol-1/2/

flyingfinn · October 2016

Ofcourse it's not. It's dead.

jaazaniah1 · October 2016

I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't want to see some more effort put into the Nemesis system and seeing more Nemeses in the game. Can't wait for the Nemesis GCR cosmic mission.

darqaura2 · October 2016

He's coming from it from the point of the Nemesis system. Which actually hasn't had any updates in . . . I'm drawing a blank.

With that said the overall game has had updates.

biffsmackwell · October 2016

That's what I was guessing at first, Darq, but he clearly says the game has slipped into semi-torpor.

But still, what does that even mean? Is it like Schrodinger's torpor?

spinnytop · October 2016

This is one of those things that peeves me off. A lot of times when this game does get some advertisement, it's actually a negative because nearly every time I've seen it it's been someone advertising how dead the game is and referencing the state of the game from like three years ago. Would be nice if they actually took a look at the game currently before they say anything about it, especially because the author knows how long it's been since he did that.

darqaura2 · October 2016

biffsmackwell said:
That's what I was guessing at first, Darq, but he clearly says the game has slipped into semi-torpor.

But still, what does that even mean? Is it like Schrodinger's torpor?

Oh yeah don't get me wrong, he definitely needs to check out the REST of the game. Cause the rest of the game HAS HAD UPDATES.

nepht · October 2016

The obviously havent played the game. I started playing more or less when FTP started and I have seen the massive amount of work and changes ( good or bad ) Cryptic over the years have done. Some media outlets are still just salty about CO not failing like they said it would so many years ago.

biffsmackwell · October 2016

Yeah we had like, one single year where we suffered inactivity, but aside from that, and especially this year, we've had a lot of good stuff done to the game. The guy that wrote this thing knows not.

http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/EpisodeSounds/4ACV10/04.mp3

aesica · October 2016

Semi-torpor is not full-blown torpor, so I'd say it's actually a pretty accurate assessment.

Four distinct categories of changes have been made since the current dev team took over:

1) Recycling existing content: Some old content (cosmics) has been made harder and more rewarding. In conjunction with this, the endgame progression path has been slowed down considerably to make what current content there is last longer. This isn't any kind of advancement to the game in terms of story or content, this is just recycling existing content and slowing down the endgame experience through extra grind.

2) Encouraging spending: Lockboxes and c-store content have been rolling out regularly with new shinies for players to spend money on. While this is good because it helps pay the bills and keep the lights on, it also can't really be considered "advancing the game."

3) Balance adjustments: Some underwhelming powersets have been getting adjusted. This is the kind of thing that's generally welcomed by most and extra polish never hurts, but improving existing content isn't the same as advancing the game.

4) New content: The amount of actual new content is pretty small. Teleios Ascendant was just a small ripple that most players haven't engaged in and probably never will in its current state. The Q-zone is the only thing that really advances the game, both in terms of plot and adding partially-accessible content for every--, err "most" people. It's new enough that it's possible the author didn't even see it between the time when he last played CO and when he chose to write that "article."

magpieuk2014 · October 2016

But still, what does that even mean? Is it like Schrodinger's torpor?

It's a bit like someone talking in their sleep. They wake up, shout something incomprehensible, roll over and go off again. That's very CO.

zamuelpwe · October 2016

aesica said:
4) New content: The amount of actual new content is pretty small. Teleios Ascendant was just a small ripple that most players haven't engaged in and probably never will in its current state. The Q-zone is the only thing that really advances the game, both in terms of plot and adding partially-accessible content for every--, err "most" people. It's new enough that it's possible the author didn't even see it between the time when he last played CO and when he chose to write that "article."

You're neglecting the Cybermind and Mechanon arcs. Both included new map assets and many people had requested that Mechanon show up in the game.

chaelk · October 2016

they are complaining because the nemesis doesn't have individualised speech.
yep, let's waste a load of time coming up with dozens of different scripts for the nemesis and then have players say "but mine isn't one of those.Why isn't there this one?"
Same as the people who come out with "why can't I play a villain?" in a game about superheroes. Not , why isn't there a villain side.

The examples from people in comments are NPC's with fixed speeches.
Do all of the NPC's in those games have individualised speeches and actions or is it only a few?
Do they act/speak differently depending on the player characters they are with?
If no, then they are the same as the Nemesis system.

jonsills · October 2016

I've played exactly four games/series with different dialog depending on the player-character: KotOR, where your Light Side-Dark Side balance affects responses; the Mass Effect series, which can have varied outcomes depending on your Paragon and/or Renegade levels; Fallout 3, where taking the Child at Heart perk means you have different dialog options with children (makes the Lamplight Caverns a lot more fun); and Star Trek Online, which only applies this concept to the Fed mission "Diplomatic Orders" (Vulcans get a different series of responses and potential dialog statements than other races while securing permission to take the ambassador from Vulcan to P'jem).

Every other game I've played, on computer or console, MMO or single-player offline or some hybrid of the two, has given the same dialog to each NPC, without significant variation. Basically, the complaint in that article is that you're not playing a tabletop game with a sapient Gamemaster who is capable of altering dialog on the fly to suit the particular situation. And our research on AI just hasn't gotten that far along - yet.

championshewolf · October 2016

Beyond minor updates, the last major update to Nemesis was Nemesis Confrontation. Which was after Blood Moon the first year of CO's existence. Beyond that, I really do not care about the Nemesis stuff, I would prefer new dungeons and new power sets if I wanted anything. Brand new permanent zones that are not darkity, dark of darkness would be nice to. I have honestly had zero interest in the Warzone because I am kind of tired of ultra darkness so thick you can cut it with a knife.

darqaura2 · October 2016

championshewolf said:
Beyond minor updates, the last major update to Nemesis was Nemesis Confrontation. Which was after Blood Moon the first year of CO's existence. Beyond that, I really do not care about the Nemesis stuff, I would prefer new dungeons and new power sets if I wanted anything. Brand new permanent zones that are not dark, dark of darkness would be nice to. I have honestly had zero interest in the Warzone because I am kind of tired of ultra darkness so thick you can cut it with a knife.

THIS. Though I do like the Q zone I can see why some folks really would not. Also LOL Nemesis system can go pound sand.

markhawkman · October 2016

Well... what did you think the ground in Q-Zone was made of?

championshewolf · October 2016

darqaura2 said:

championshewolf said:
Beyond minor updates, the last major update to Nemesis was Nemesis Confrontation. Which was after Blood Moon the first year of CO's existence. Beyond that, I really do not care about the Nemesis stuff, I would prefer new dungeons and new power sets if I wanted anything. Brand new permanent zones that are not dark, dark of darkness would be nice to. I have honestly had zero interest in the Warzone because I am kind of tired of ultra darkness so thick you can cut it with a knife.
THIS. Though I do like the Q zone I can see why some folks really would not. Also LOL Nemesis system can go pound sand.

Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.

That being said we need to expand on COs zones,b ut not all zones need to be epic zones either. New, small social zones would be nice. No offense, but the world events are feeling really intrusive now on the normal game experience. On Alert already ruined the world experience, but I would actually prefer world events that were more centralized to an area, like a special zone made specifically for them. It gets tiring not seeing the sun, and we've had so much darkness this year it's kind of put me off.

darqaura2 · October 2016

championshewolf said:

darqaura2 said:

championshewolf said:
Beyond minor updates, the last major update to Nemesis was Nemesis Confrontation. Which was after Blood Moon the first year of CO's existence. Beyond that, I really do not care about the Nemesis stuff, I would prefer new dungeons and new power sets if I wanted anything. Brand new permanent zones that are not dark, dark of darkness would be nice to. I have honestly had zero interest in the Warzone because I am kind of tired of ultra darkness so thick you can cut it with a knife.
THIS. Though I do like the Q zone I can see why some folks really would not. Also LOL Nemesis system can go pound sand.
Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.

That being said we need to expand on COs zones,b ut not all zones need to be epic zones either. New, small social zones would be nice. No offense, but the world events are feeling really intrusive now on the normal game experience. On Alert already ruined the world experience, but I would actually prefer world events that were more centralized to an area, like a special zone made specifically for them. It gets tiring not seeing the sun, and we've had so much darkness this year it's kind of put me off.

Yeah between Blood moon and Q zone I can see that. Hang in there, "halloween" in CO is almost over.

championshewolf · October 2016

darqaura2 said:

championshewolf said:

darqaura2 said:

championshewolf said:
Beyond minor updates, the last major update to Nemesis was Nemesis Confrontation. Which was after Blood Moon the first year of CO's existence. Beyond that, I really do not care about the Nemesis stuff, I would prefer new dungeons and new power sets if I wanted anything. Brand new permanent zones that are not dark, dark of darkness would be nice to. I have honestly had zero interest in the Warzone because I am kind of tired of ultra darkness so thick you can cut it with a knife.
THIS. Though I do like the Q zone I can see why some folks really would not. Also LOL Nemesis system can go pound sand.
Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.

That being said we need to expand on COs zones,b ut not all zones need to be epic zones either. New, small social zones would be nice. No offense, but the world events are feeling really intrusive now on the normal game experience. On Alert already ruined the world experience, but I would actually prefer world events that were more centralized to an area, like a special zone made specifically for them. It gets tiring not seeing the sun, and we've had so much darkness this year it's kind of put me off.
Yeah between Blood moon and Q zone I can see that. Hang in there, "halloween" in CO is almost over.

Halloween is my favorite time of year, so I don't want it over, but it tends to be overblown on the whole darkity dark of darkness thing.

magpieuk2014 · October 2016

The Sky's gone dim

and the Sun's turned black

it must be Tuesday.

jonsills · October 2016

magpieuk2014 wrote: »

The Sky's gone dim

and the Sun's turned black

it must be Tuesday.

You're lacking a few syllables from your haiku there. Try:

The sky has gone dim,

And the Sun has turned to black.

It must be Tuesday.

zamuelpwe · October 2016

I think more can be done with the Nemesis system but many would be happy with bug fixes and small additions/adjustments. It might not be able to hit all expectations but it's still a fun part of the game that's been neglected.

I will agree that the dreariness during this time of year gets annoying and I'm not enthused the new zone is so dark magic themed as opposed to traditional superheroism. I hoped Telios Ascendant was a change that things were changing. It's why I find DEMON more interesting than Qlithdfhgxdhdxh.

jonsills said:
I've played exactly four games/series with different dialog depending on the player-character

CoX had it but in very limited quantities. There was some Origin based stuff and then a bunch of things popped up when Going Rogue hit. That said, it still wasn't the entire game like the examples you used.

markhawkman · October 2016

What I was hoping was that the 3 general themes would actually do something... the dialog you get seems to fit "mastermind" but not the other two.

decorumfriends · October 2016

chaelk said:
they are complaining because the nemesis doesn't have individualised speech.

yep, let's waste a load of time coming up with dozens of different scripts for the nemesis and then have players say "but mine isn't one of those.Why isn't there this one?"

I don't know about dozens, but three might be nice. Y'know, to go with the three types of nemeses that currently do nothing whatsoever.

But, yeah, the article writer's a tool.

EDIT: Ha! If I'd only finished reading the page...

decorumfriends · October 2016

championshewolf said:
Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.

Of course it would never match those ideals. That doesn't mean it couldn't be a WHOLE lot better than it is.

championshewolf · October 2016

decorumfriends said:

championshewolf said:
Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.
Of course it would never match those ideals. That doesn't mean it couldn't be a WHOLE lot better than it is.

And how would it be better? I doubt much could be done to make it any better than it is. I've run every single one of the Nemesis missions more times than I care to count I know what goes on in each of them. So how would you make it better? In the limited budget of the system saying they could add more missions I doubt is remotely feasible, and let's be blunt, nemesis is a substantially small part of champions, not worth the investment at this time.

magpieuk2014 · October 2016

Cheers for the haiku, Jon. I was thinking of Dorothy Parker: "The Sky's Gone Dim and the Sun's Turned Black, 'cause she loved him and he didn't love back." (I think it's called "Eighteen Word Novel")

vorshoth · October 2016

Yeah, the game's in a better place now than it was.

A few years back that's all you heard on MC Zone: "waily waily waily, crivens, they're going to shut us down because they want to focus on Neverwinter and STO!"

But, since then, there's been at least 3 amazing new events, updates to powers and mechanics (some good, some kill certain ways to play in bad ways, but overall positive), and most recently a NEW ZONE, something that hasn't happened since launch!

CO is, perhaps amazingly unexpectedly at times, still active, and going well.

Haters be hatin'.

decorumfriends · October 2016

championshewolf said:

decorumfriends said:

championshewolf said:
Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.
Of course it would never match those ideals. That doesn't mean it couldn't be a WHOLE lot better than it is.

And how would it be better? I doubt much could be done to make it any better than it is. I've run every single one of the Nemesis missions more times than I care to count I know what goes on in each of them. So how would you make it better? In the limited budget of the system saying they could add more missions I doubt is remotely feasible, and let's be blunt, nemesis is a substantially small part of champions, not worth the investment at this time.

That would be the main one, of course. Adding some powers would be an improvement. Being able to pick weapons. Travel powers. As you say, it's budgetary concerns that are holding things back for the most part. Doesn't mean it couldn't be done, just that they likely won't.

markhawkman · October 2016

The weird part is that SOME Nem power sets have an aura but most don't.

championshewolf · October 2016

decorumfriends said:

championshewolf said:

decorumfriends said:

championshewolf said:
Yes, Nemesis was novel but there's just little that can be done with it in any context no matter what anyone falsely believes. The missions will never match our ideals of what we believe our true nemesis should be, and honestly nemesis should be a player level thing, and RP.
Of course it would never match those ideals. That doesn't mean it couldn't be a WHOLE lot better than it is.

And how would it be better? I doubt much could be done to make it any better than it is. I've run every single one of the Nemesis missions more times than I care to count I know what goes on in each of them. So how would you make it better? In the limited budget of the system saying they could add more missions I doubt is remotely feasible, and let's be blunt, nemesis is a substantially small part of champions, not worth the investment at this time.
That would be the main one, of course. Adding some powers would be an improvement. Being able to pick weapons. Travel powers. As you say, it's budgetary concerns that are holding things back for the most part. Doesn't mean it couldn't be done, just that they likely won't.

It's more than budgetary. Not a single one of the Nemesis archetypes you can pick now fits any of the Nemeses I actually want, and none o the Nemesis missions even fit remotely the ideal of what my Nemeses would do. Take Ezekiel Rage, who is suppose to be a main antagonist, a hunter and falsely believes that every single meta is an abomination that must be destroyed. He could be considered a maniac, but he is calculating and resourceful. None of the missions reflect this because 1 he would not use empowered henchmen, maybe technology at best. And the missions themselves really don't even feel like an epic showdown between you and the master villain you wanted. More power picks or weapon choices will not fix these problems. The whole system is abysmal, so changing anything about Nemesis now to make it even remotely usable as a tool for the players would take a massive undertaking. It would just be better to get the Foundry instead and CO doesn't have the budget for that.

Fighting our nemesis in the open world would be nice, but what about other people. On Alert just made a hokey attempt at this but again it falls on the wayside that the alert missions offer nothing that would actually fit the ideals of the nemesis.

decorumfriends · October 2016

You and I are looking for something completely different from the system. I don't need the perfection you seem to be looking for, just a little more variety.

darqaura2 · October 2016

decorumfriends said:
You and I are looking for something completely different from the system. I don't need the perfection you seem to be looking for, just a little more variety.

I don't even think we have the resources for that. If its a choice between another new zone and nemesis work, I think you can guess which one I'd choose every time. Others may choose differently but I doubt it.

decorumfriends · October 2016

**shrugs** I never said it was likely, but resources are being allocated differently these days. You never know what tomorrow might bring.

markhawkman · October 2016

OOOH!!!! Give Eidolon the ability to summon a nemesis of one of the heroes fighting him at random!

championshewolf · October 2016

decorumfriends said:
You and I are looking for something completely different from the system. I don't need the perfection you seem to be looking for, just a little more variety.

Of course I want something more out of my Nemesis; it's my nemesis. If I wanted generic missions that can be filled by anyone with a name, then might as well spend the resources in using the bad guys already present within the Champions Lore. The whole point of having a Nemesis is to have a character that completes your character. A bad guy that might be your equal, like Joker is to Batman, Lex Luther is to Superman, etc. Not another bog standard generic bad guy we shuffle through as is constantly in game now. If that's the case, I would rather see story arcs created for Freakshow first then just another generic mission where my nemesis is doing more stuff that would not be within their character.

vorshoth · October 2016

To be fair, the very concept of a Nemesis is a weird one in game terms. By its nature it has to be vague so the player can fill in the blanks: the moment they get specific (what is this Lemurian artefact? You'll never know because it's too easy to break your nemesis' character with the wrong choice.), it takes you out of things, and makes you remember that there is no nemesis, this humanoid figure wearing the skin of a potential foe of your hero is merely an assemblage of one of three personality types interacting with your hero in the same three ways.

We will never get a villain as cunning as Jafar, as merciless as Ming. We will never have a true monologue whilst paralysed, trying to escape their bonds, while a doomsday weapon charges up to fire.

A Nemesis is more than what we have.

But is it even possible for it to be more?

We don't know.

markhawkman · October 2016

Hmm... yeah actually writing dialog for your Nem would be cool, but there's a lot of dialog boxes to fill. It'd be nice though! (and the first step to adding Foundry)

championshewolf · October 2016

markhawkman said:
Hmm... yeah actually writing dialog for your Nem would be cool, but there's a lot of dialog boxes to fill. It'd be nice though! (and the first step to adding Foundry)

Nemesis should have been a pseudo foundry thing, and the fact that features like our nemesis attacking SG mates, has not really happened *shrugs*. A lot could have been done with nemesis but... it's just not good enough. It's not even a mediocre thing. It's just a reskin cut out and honestly, resources should have been spent in other places than on Nemesis.

ashensnow · October 2016

Perhaps he was just referring to a decided lack of 18 wheel Semi's in the vehicle system.

Long live the, "Porkchop Express."

markhawkman · November 2016

ashensnow said:
Perhaps he was just referring to a decided lack of 18 wheel Semi's in the vehicle system.

Long live the, "Porkchop Express."

Sure? why not? We already have trains.

spinnytop · November 2016

jonsills said:

The sky has gone dim,

And the Sun has turned to black.

It's snowing on Mt. Fuji

Fixed that for you.

furries2 · November 2016

If only the game was in a good state as STO to have a system where Nemesis System can be fused with the Foundry System, Making your own Nemesis Missions and adding Dialoge to them. Adding your own talored powers and color them.

The Ability to rename your nemesis (If you misspelled something or he had his named altered due to a certain point of events). Stuff like this, The Devs can still make there own Nemesis Stories for those have no skill in how to make Foundry missions good start for begineers.

Just an Idea, Not sure if anyone did mention it before or not.

darqaura2 · November 2016

furries2 said:
If only the game was in a good state as STO to have a system where Nemesis System can be fused with the Foundry System, Making your own Nemesis Missions and adding Dialoge to them. Adding your own talored powers and color them.

The Ability to rename your nemesis (If you misspelled something or he had his named altered due to a certain point of events). Stuff like this, The Devs can still make there own Nemesis Stories for those have no skill in how to make Foundry missions good start for begineers.

Just an Idea, Not sure if anyone did mention it before or not.

We have. The Foundry would take an epic amount of resources to bring over. The devs have said it's not going to happen anytime soon (if ever).

jonsills · November 2016

darqaura2 wrote: »

We have. The Foundry would take an epic amount of resources to bring over. The devs have said it's not going to happen anytime soon (if ever).

Sad, as I've got at least three stories ready to go the minute such a thing happened, but true... <sigh>

blumoon8 · November 2016

They've pretty much have always said the Foundry isn't going to happen. STO and NW use an updated engine, but CO would need to be fitted to handle it. It'd take too much manpower.

decorumfriends · November 2016

IIRC, the sticking point is they tagged all the items for Foundry when they built STO. CO does not have this tagging and it would have to be done manually to EVERYTHING. So, yeah, it's almost 100% unlikely to happen.

nepht · November 2016

I dont play MMOs or Online games that don't make progress. Been playing CO for around 6 years now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

magpieuk2014 · November 2016

Console port is more likely, and if the player number were to increase as a result, there might be more new content. A new zone would be nice, but they need to fix other stuff first - at the moment a whole new zone would be a bit like putting an extension on the back of your house when the windows are falling out of the front....

I have always liked Nemesis, not necessarily because of the idea of having a Nemesis or the characters (although designing toons is always fun), but because the way it constantly interrupts the normal flow of play and sends characters off to odd places to do super-hero stuff involving improbable machines and unlikely conspiracies. It feels right for the genre and is considerably less tiresome than epic plots leading to Big Monster Fights (again).

CO has made no progress since going F2P.

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