I don't understand the scenario from either POV. AOE knocks you tap. They don't knock out of AOE range that way, or if they do they're coming right back in.
Nothing wrong with knock, but you have to use it properly, not just blast away with the "big gun" all the time.
EDIT: Also, please..."Into the wall, not down the hall!"
I don't understand the scenario from either POV. AOE knocks you tap. They don't knock out of AOE range that way, or if they do they're coming right back in.
Nothing wrong with knock, but you have to use it properly, not just blast away with the "big gun" all the time.
EDIT: Also, please..."Into the wall, not down the hall!"
But... the damage is so much better down the hall... they take no fall damage if you knock into the wall... or the ceiling for that matter...
Anyways... as I've been trying to tell people for years... knock backs are not a bad mechanic by any means... they are a very effective form of crowd control... infact one of the most effective forms still left in the game... got some enemies you need to take out of the fight for a minute? Rocket them across the city and let them take their time comming back, need more time? Send them right on back across the city... odds are if they arn't dead by now they won't survive that 3rd punt into the stratosphere headded their way and in all likely hood you've dealt with your other targets by now anyways... Knocks are only consiered a problem in stuff like Dockside Dustup where knocking an enemy off the dock won't kill them and will usually get them stuck in the water until time runs out, or in some other alerts where there are environmental objects that they can get knocked into making the alert impossible to complete with certain teams.
Why did you use an aoe knock back that would do that if that wasn't the end result you wanted?
Because you're a behemoth and it's the only AoE you get until level 40? Unless you have some means of applying other CC (turning the knockback into a knockup), roomsweeper is a bad power in most content.
Roomsweeper doesn't hit everything around you though. Aes was talking like it's a pbaoe 25 range knock. I played a behemoth as my first character, and roomsweeper is still one of my favorite moves, and I haven't experienced these horror stories of "scattered mobs that can't be aoe'd" that people claim. I guess I'm just playing smarter than they are.
I don't understand the scenario from either POV. AOE knocks you tap. They don't knock out of AOE range that way, or if they do they're coming right back in.
Nothing wrong with knock, but you have to use it properly, not just blast away with the "big gun" all the time.
EDIT: Also, please..."Into the wall, not down the hall!"
Once again, decorum gets it ( and more importantly, gets it in the way that leads to success, not the other kind of getting it that leads to impotent complaining ).
Sorry but the Forms are still not perfectly in line with each other.
As long as I can hold a mantain power for half it's duration outside of combat (Epidemic, Hurricane), I can keep max stacks of Concentration/Chilled Form at all times with 0 investment on the Power, whereas most other forms require you to actively do something in combat (Bleed/Knock/Crit/Dodge) or to invest points in them to start at 3...wohoo!
Lesser perpetrators of this are Compassion (through Iniquity), Form of the Tiger (melee moves like Arc of Ruin).
My Enrage user actually uses Cleave to build stacks on groups of things, only breaking out Annihilate for knockback-immune targets.
So then when you talk about "scattering the entire group with knockback" you're completely full of it. Got it.
I'm going to try to make this as simple for you to understand as I possibly can. My reply was to this, with the bolded and underlined part heavily emphasized:
To me the concept was always "knocked that one away, switch to another closer" not "chase down that one I knocked way over there".
^ decorum gets it. While that enemy is flying away and then running back, unable to harm you, you stomp their buddy into the pavement. NPCs will bring themselves back to you, players don't have to go chasing after them.
If you knock away ranged opponents with any knockback power, they won't necessarily come running back into your aoe. Sure, some NPCs will charge right back into the fray, but others will happily stay in their new location and pelt you from a distance. The latter slows down you and/or your group's aoe killfest.
Now do you understand?
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
To me the concept was always "knocked that one away, switch to another closer" not "chase down that one I knocked way over there".
^ decorum gets it. While that enemy is flying away and then running back, unable to harm you, you stomp their buddy into the pavement. NPCs will bring themselves back to you, players don't have to go chasing after them.
That is true in some cases but a lot of enemies prefer to fight at range anyway and will gladly just stay further away and attack you. Thus unless you know you are going to kill them it can often be a bad idea to launch them. I have a character who uses Force powers and have learned long since that you either stack up immunity on them with little taps or save your big blast for when you are reasonably sure they will die. Bosses are irrelevant of course because they cannot be knocked but everything that can becomes silly to knock away. Knock up and down are fine but it seems the focus is on knocking away.
I do understand WHY there are these knock away powers as they are iconic but I just get the feeling they do not really work as well in practice as they do in the Comics/Shows. Then again usually things say Hulk sends flying do NOT get back up.
A ): Give Enrage another way to proc Enraged (along with Knocks), most likely some sort of "Taking Damage" prerequisite
or
B ): Add another Str-scaling form (perhaps one that also stacks Enraged) that procs from something that isn't Knocks (Enrage) or Bleeds (AotB)
For all of the kinds of builds that can benefit from Strength, there really isn't a whole lot of variation when it comes to Strength-based Forms. Additionally, as I've said for a while now, I would love to see a true Tanking Form (IDF doesn't really count. Really. I mean, sorta, it does. But not really). Something that adds stacks based on incoming damage.
I also feel like more emphasis is going to be placed on interacting with your Forms. I see more mechanics similar to MA's Rush in the future!
Who needs an EU when you're Rushin'?
I really hope you get the double entendre there. It's like layers and layers of wit.
It makes sense, if you don't think about it.
__________________________________________________
Most often Slice N Dice@zap-the-eradicator in-game.
The knock for extra fall damage is something I use and expect with my characters that use knocks.
Probably one of my biggest complaints against this game is the way it encourages individual DPS so much to the point where people don't even think or care about teamwork. "I did a lot of DPS, so that's all that matters".
I do understand WHY there are these knock away powers as they are iconic but I just get the feeling they do not really work as well in practice as they do in the Comics/Shows. Then again usually things say Hulk sends flying do NOT get back up.
Knock backs are more than just iconic staples of the superhero genre. They exist in other genres of MMOs as well and they serve as a form of crowd control. They are meant to put distance between you and your foe to mitigate damage for a few moments. They are, for obvious reasons, best used againt melee enemies and, for other obvious reasons, most useful to ranged builds. It is actually for this reason that in most class based MMOs the knock backs are primarily found on ranged classes. Knocks in CO are largely misunderstood by the community as a whole. When people learn to use knocks properly (which I dont see happening anytime soon here) then the whole fear of knockback in group content will subside.
I actually run several builds that are knock back heavy and I have never once had a group that found my use of knocks annoying. The reason? Because I understand how to use them to the advantage of everyone. And no, it's not by quickly building up knock resist on everything so that I don't send them flying across the map and scatter groups...
If I'm on Vector I'll use Force Geyser to single out a problem enemy (such as Viper Power Armor) and while they are airborn Force Detonate to launch that one enemy out of the fight while we deal with the rest of the group, and if I'm quick enough I'll tag them with a stun before they are out of my range so they stay gone a little longer. If I'm on Nekomi I'll usually go deal with a group of enemies on my own, Roomsweeper the whole group to weed out the trash mobs then Haymaker any problem targets that remain when they get back while I beat down the remaining enemies. On Paradigm I'll Rocket Fist problem targets to get them out of the way and full charge Havoc Stomp if I get too many enemies on me at one time.
I'm sure by now you can pick up on the pattern... Single out problem enemies and remove them from the fight with a strong knock back, use wide AoE knockbacks to weed out trash and/or to get mobs off you. If you don't have a single target knock back but you've got a single target knock up, then combine them to make a single target knock back when needed.
As a pure melee gamer, nothing irritates me more than one of those cheesy KB toons (usually they are ranged builds, who would have thought!?) scattering the mobs that i'm hitting all over the place.
On topic:
Focus stacks take too long to build up as a melee character, because often times we cannot close the distance in time and the stacks reset to 0. This is especially noticable in duels, but also in pve... and is rendering forms pretty much useless (for melee toons, especially Archetypes)
suggestion:
Either increase the uptime of focus stacks for melee builds, or lower the internal cooldown to 2 seconds. Ranged toons should ofc remain with a itc of 4 seconds for obvious reasons. CO is currently almost unplayable as a melee DPS toon unless you stack CON...
Let's stop favoring builds that rely on pewpew and focus more on what melee could benefit from.
NPCs always come running back, that's how they're programmed. I think you've actually reached the point where you're just outright lying about things so you can have some sort of point to make. How about instead of that, you read back through the thread and look for those posts where people are giving you advice on how to properly use knocks in a smart way that will benefit your party. It sounds to me like you're one of the people who uses knocks in the dumbest way possible and then blames the game for your own mistakes. If you're smart, you can make knockback work for you, rather than against your team. And yes, you can do all this while keeping your enrage stacks up.
I actually run several builds that are knock back heavy and I have never once had a group that found my use of knocks annoying. The reason? Because I understand how to use them to the advantage of everyone.
NPCs always come running back, that's how they're programmed. I think you've actually reached the point where you're just outright lying about things so you can have some sort of point to make.
Okay, I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt for once, because maybe there really was some weird AI rule that would cause a ranged enemy run back to whatever location it was knocked away from. So, to test it out, I went to one of the event portals to find a willing test subject.
Meet my friend, the Qliphothic Acolyte. Let's call him Qliphy.
I gave him a little love tap with Annihilate to show my affections. I waited for the entire time it took photoshop to load, but he never came back to me.
Feeling rejected, I decided to show my frustrations by playing golf with him, sending him a fully-charged Annihilate's distance away from his new location before running back to our initial meeting spot. He didn't come back this time, either.
So there you have it. Melee enemies, and perhaps enemies with both melee and ranged powers will run back, but strictly ranged enemies will gladly accept your free gap opener.
How about instead of that, you read back through the thread and look for those posts where people are giving you advice on how to properly use knocks in a smart way that will benefit your party. It sounds to me like you're one of the people who uses knocks in the dumbest way possible and then blames the game for your own mistakes. If you're smart, you can make knockback work for you, rather than against your team. And yes, you can do all this while keeping your enrage stacks up.
I actually run several builds that are knock back heavy and I have never once had a group that found my use of knocks annoying. The reason? Because I understand how to use them to the advantage of everyone.
Maybe if I quote it again, you'll catch it this time. In fact, let's do it multiple times, just in case 1 isn't enough for it to sink in.
My Enrage user actually uses Cleave to build stacks on groups of things, only breaking out Annihilate for knockback-immune targets.
You do know that Cleave is a knockdown rather than a knockback. Right? It sounds to me like you're one of the people who makes up their own crazy assumptions and invents their own stories about what they think other people are saying. Either reading comprehension is hard or the public school systems have utterly failed you.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
You've missed the entire point... only using knockbacks against knockback immune targets is NOT propper understanding of how to use knocks to the advantage of everyone. Knockbacks are a tool for crowd control, you use them to remove troublesome targets from the engagement so your team can more easily dispatch the rest of the group. Or if your knockbacks are short distance knocks (like most PBAoE Knockbacks) then you use them to get large groups off of yourself or others. Knock ups and knock downs are great for inturupting power activations, (knock down's doing this better, since some abilities arn't inturrupted unles the enemy falls down when hit with a knock up and the have an annoying habbit of landing on their feet {Glares at Demon Inner Circle Member})
If you botherd to read my post that Spinny quoted you'd have understood that "knock against knockimmune only" was NOT the objective.
Knockbacks are a tool for crowd control, you use them to remove troublesome targets from the engagement so your team can more easily dispatch the rest of the group.
This would be more relevant if the intersection of "troublesome targets worth temporarily removing" and "vulnerable to knocks" was not a null set.
Knockbacks are a tool for crowd control, you use them to remove troublesome targets from the engagement so your team can more easily dispatch the rest of the group.
This would be more relevant if the intersection of "troublesome targets worth temporarily removing" and "vulnerable to knocks" was not a null set.
There are many enemies that are knockable and troublesome. Many players are unaware of which enemies these are though due to the zerg mentality that became rampent with the release of Alerts... but just to list a few for you.
Viper Power Armor Demon Inner Circle Member Argent Cyborg Destroid Leader Drone Viper Brickbuster Psi Agent Fox Battlebot Sound & Camera bots (I forget their actual names) Dogz Ulfarnger (or however it's spelled) Sovereign Sons Boitano
And that's just a few of the most prominent ones. These enemies are worth temporarily removing because of abilities that they have. Viper PA & Psi Agents for their knocks that ignore resistance, Leader Drones because of their massive damage buff, Brickbusters because of their absurd resistance debuff (Extremely important to remove them fast if you're grouped with a PFF tank, they invert PFF's bleedthrough from 10% to 90%)... if you pay attention to these targets long enough you'll learn exactly why they are all priority targets... and if you're grouped with players who don't understand to target them (which happens A LOT) then, if you have the ability to, you should remove the targets from the engagement to help everyone out.
You've missed the entire point... only using knockbacks against knockback immune targets is NOT propper understanding of how to use knocks to the advantage of everyone. Knockbacks are a tool for crowd control, you use them to remove troublesome targets from the engagement so your team can more easily dispatch the rest of the group. Or if your knockbacks are short distance knocks (like most PBAoE Knockbacks) then you use them to get large groups off of yourself or others. Knock ups and knock downs are great for inturupting power activations, (knock down's doing this better, since some abilities arn't inturrupted unles the enemy falls down when hit with a knock up and the have an annoying habbit of landing on their feet {Glares at Demon Inner Circle Member})
If you botherd to read my post that Spinny quoted you'd have understood that "knock against knockimmune only" was NOT the objective.
It's really a lot simpler than this. Spinny said things will run back when knocked away. I corrected him/her by saying that ranged enemies tend to stay in their new position rather than running back, but spinny somehow took it as me not knowing how to use knockback or something else entirely unrelated.
That's really nothing more to it than this.
Edit: That aside, I haven't really encountered any knock-vulnerable enemies that have struck me as problematic enough to knock away temporarily. If I did, of course I'd consider playing golf with them, too. Edit2: The ones you listed never struck me as troublesome enough to give special care to--at least not on my knockback-capable character.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
There are many enemies that are knockable and troublesome.
Every example you give fits into the "death is the ultimate form of CC" category.
There is nothing that doesn't fit into that category besides things that instantly respawn or can be resurrected. And that category does not remove things from being valuable targets for any form of CC. If your in a group that attacks things blindly and you can easily CC those targets then do so. It's that simple.
Honestly the mentality you just displayed is the exact reason that CC is in such a sorry state still... For crying out loud, even with new content that is making CC more valuable that exact same mentality is destroying any hope that CC will ever get it's much needed updates. Just look at TA, Cosmics, and even the new Nightmare Invasion event... all of those made CC more valuable than it's been in years... and yet, it didn't take long at all for people to find ways to complete them without the use of CC and once again make the whole idea of using CC a worthless endeavour in group content. It doesn't matter what form of CC your using be it holds or knocks people with that misguided mentality will ruin it.
So while yes "death is the ultimate form of CC" it is not the ONLY form nor is it the only form worth using. Often times it's actually more beneficial to use an actual form of CC rather than attempt to kill a target immediately. You know there are other MMOs that look at Healing in the same light that the community here looks at CC... In those MMOs the community prefers to prevent damage in the first place than to provide healing, interestingly enough forms of CC are far more effective for them. If we stop looking at dps as the end all be all of everything and start looking at the mechanics available as a whole I guarantee combat would be more engaging and content would be less hectic. Hell if the community actually starts to USE the various forms of CC as intended then we may infact see a massive shift in the direction of content. Less "straightforward kill everything in your sight" and more "tactical and heroic play style" the stuff many of us have been demanding for years.
It doesn't matter what form of CC your using be it holds or knocks people with that misguided mentality will ruin it.
It's not 'misguided mentality' to accurately describe the current state of the mechanics. The current state of CC mechanics is that it's almost exclusively of use against players, because almost every other target actually vulnerable to it is too trivial to bother with.
It doesn't matter what form of CC your using be it holds or knocks people with that misguided mentality will ruin it.
It's not 'misguided mentality' to accurately describe the current state of the mechanics. The current state of CC mechanics is that it's almost exclusively of use against players, because almost every other target actually vulnerable to it is too trivial to bother with.
Pretty much this. There's no reason I can think of to CC say, a brickbuster when everyone can just melt it in seconds along with several other things in a massive aoestorm.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Pretty much this. There's no reason I can think of to CC say, a brickbuster when everyone can just melt it in seconds along with several other things in a massive aoestorm.
The exception being various sorts of area stuns, as they can be applied fast, don't get blown off by damage, and don't interfere with doing damage. It's perfectly useful to use a thunderclap or TK maelstrom on a clump of enemies.
The current state of CC mechanics is that it's almost exclusively of use against players, because almost every other target actually vulnerable to it is too trivial to bother with.
I use Ego Sleep + Ego Sprites on my healer to solo Horrors Portals without being knocked into fine pasta
It's really a lot simpler than this. Spinny said things will run back when knocked away. I corrected him/her by saying that ranged enemies tend to stay in their new position rather than running back, but spinny somehow took it as me not knowing how to use knockback or something else entirely unrelated.
Well there's your problem, you're shooting at a moving target. Spinny is incapable of admitting he's wrong. If you ever point out that he's wrong about something, he'll shift his focus about something else he thinks you're wrong about, and then he'll do everything he can to make whatever discussion you're having about you instead of the actual subject. This discussion will go on until one of you admits fault or backs off, or I close the thread.
Pretty much this. There's no reason I can think of to CC say, a brickbuster when everyone can just melt it in seconds along with several other things in a massive aoestorm.
The exception being various sorts of area stuns, as they can be applied fast, don't get blown off by damage, and don't interfere with doing damage. It's perfectly useful to use a thunderclap or TK maelstrom on a clump of enemies.
True, although I pretty much use thunderclap on CD anyway for that sweet, sweet sentinel mastery buff.
It's really a lot simpler than this. Spinny said things will run back when knocked away. I corrected him/her by saying that ranged enemies tend to stay in their new position rather than running back, but spinny somehow took it as me not knowing how to use knockback or something else entirely unrelated.
Well there's your problem, you're shooting at a moving target. Spinny is incapable of admitting he's wrong. If you ever point out that he's wrong about something, he'll shift his focus about something else he thinks you're wrong about, and then he'll do everything he can to make whatever discussion you're having about you instead of the actual subject. This discussion will go on until one of you admits fault or backs off, or I close the thread.
Happens every time with that guy.
I know, and you'd really think I'd have learned this by now. I guess I have an OCD problem of wanting to talk sense into people who seem to be immune to it.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
So there you have it. Melee enemies, and perhaps enemies with both melee and ranged powers will run back, but strictly ranged enemies will gladly accept your free gap opener.
As you've shown, it absolutely did come running back. I never said it comes running back to the spot you knocked it from - guess we found out what had you so confused this whole time.
You do know that Cleave is a knockdown rather than a knockback. Right? It sounds to me like you're one of the people who makes up their own crazy assumptions and invents their own stories about what they think other people are saying. Either reading comprehension is hard or the public school systems have utterly failed you.
Yes, like you made a crazy assumption and invented a story about me saying that enemies come running back to the exact spot they were knocked from. Like I said, you're just making up stuff to argue against now. You're also making up stuff to complain about, because as you've demonstrated the "big bad knock issue" is one that doesn't actually effect you. Heck, I could complain about constantly being killed by groups of NPCs that can be easily solo'd by just using your head a bit, but that isn't an issue that effects me so I don't.
These enemies are worth temporarily removing because of abilities that they have. Viper PA & Psi Agents for their knocks that ignore resistance, Leader Drones because of their massive damage buff, Brickbusters because of their absurd resistance debuff (Extremely important to remove them fast if you're grouped with a PFF tank, they invert PFF's bleedthrough from 10% to 90%)... if you pay attention to these targets long enough you'll learn exactly why they are all priority targets... and if you're grouped with players who don't understand to target them (which happens A LOT) then, if you have the ability to, you should remove the targets from the engagement to help everyone out.
Raighn gets it. Tactics like these are especially valuable when you find yourself in a Grab alert with only other low levels. Some high-level players forget that not every alert is just a complete zerg-fest where you pull everything in the room and then aoe it down without breaking a sweat. These are also the kinds of tactics I use for solo-ing TA trash when I get impatient waiting for the rest of my group to show up, and also sometimes during TA boss fights themselves when the adds have to be managed.
So there you have it. Melee enemies, and perhaps enemies with both melee and ranged powers will run back, but strictly ranged enemies will gladly accept your free gap opener.
As you've shown, it absolutely did come running back. I never said it comes running back to the spot you knocked it from - guess we found out what had you so confused this whole time.
LOL what? No, it didn't run anywhere. I knocked it away, and it just sat in its new position as it continued to throw stuff at me. Are pictures too much for you as well? I give up.
Yes, like you made a crazy assumption and invented a story about me saying that enemies come running back to the exact spot they were knocked from. Like I said, you're just making up stuff to argue against now. You're also making up stuff to complain about, because as you've demonstrated the "big bad knock issue" is one that doesn't actually effect you. Heck, I could complain about constantly being killed by groups of NPCs that can be easily solo'd by just using your head a bit, but that isn't an issue that effects me so I don't.
There are many enemies that are knockable and troublesome.
Every example you give fits into the "death is the ultimate form of CC" category.
There is nothing that doesn't fit into that category besides things that instantly respawn or can be resurrected. And that category does not remove things from being valuable targets for any form of CC. If your in a group that attacks things blindly and you can easily CC those targets then do so. It's that simple.
Honestly the mentality you just displayed is the exact reason that CC is in such a sorry state still... For crying out loud, even with new content that is making CC more valuable that exact same mentality is destroying any hope that CC will ever get it's much needed updates. Just look at TA, Cosmics, and even the new Nightmare Invasion event... all of those made CC more valuable than it's been in years... and yet, it didn't take long at all for people to find ways to complete them without the use of CC and once again make the whole idea of using CC a worthless endeavour in group content. It doesn't matter what form of CC your using be it holds or knocks people with that misguided mentality will ruin it.
So while yes "death is the ultimate form of CC" it is not the ONLY form nor is it the only form worth using. Often times it's actually more beneficial to use an actual form of CC rather than attempt to kill a target immediately. You know there are other MMOs that look at Healing in the same light that the community here looks at CC... In those MMOs the community prefers to prevent damage in the first place than to provide healing, interestingly enough forms of CC are far more effective for them. If we stop looking at dps as the end all be all of everything and start looking at the mechanics available as a whole I guarantee combat would be more engaging and content would be less hectic. Hell if the community actually starts to USE the various forms of CC as intended then we may infact see a massive shift in the direction of content. Less "straightforward kill everything in your sight" and more "tactical and heroic play style" the stuff many of us have been demanding for years.
It is hard to use CC "as intended" because most of it is rather bad ATM. The majority of solid holds take too long to charge up and the target is generally dead before you can use it or is immune to it. The fact that CC works perfectly on the PLAYER but not at ALL on a HUGE list of enemies is rather obnoxious. Do not get me wrong, I do not expect a lot of knock back on a giant robot but I would say someone like Foxbat has no right to be immune to it. Even the Cosmics should at least suffer a much reduced CC effect. Maybe it lasts only a brief time or just hinders them a little instead of full out but being absolutely immune just makes it worthless.
DPS is so easy to get in Champs it makes anything that isn't immune to CC almost pointless to use CC on. Even a fairly weak DPS'er can kill most trash mobs without much trouble and again the big group CC things take too long to do their thing to be that useful. Confusion effects are pretty much worthless and the effect of Endbringer's Grasp is almost worse than useless.
It would be nice if maybe we had different CC options or ones that were quick on the draw. I actually love Gas Arrow for this reason. It is horrible DPS and its CC is not that serious but it WORKS and it works on a lot of things, even some bosses, and it is fast and cheap to use. Sonic Device is nice for this reason too. Heck even Entangling Mesh is vaguely ok but sub par compared to Implosion Engine.
I get what you are saying but you have to also be able to see that with the game in its current state using CC is very ineffective and inefficient because it currently does not really work very well. That is why people are trying to find ways around ever having to deal with it. It has been so useless for so long that most characters do not even have it available anymore. I generally do not use much CC on any of my Toons because of how pointless it is.
Also this Nightmare Invasion is not much of a good example of a place to use CC. That crowd is far too big and spread out to make it very useful unless you mean to just blast everyone away with Force Cascade and try to take out the portal before they return and then run maybe. It is simply easier to do massive AoE and just kill everything. If anything it just aggravates the players more that the enemy is CONSTANTLY using CC on us that hardly does anything to THEM.
A ): Give Enrage another way to proc Enraged (along with Knocks), most likely some sort of "Taking Damage" prerequisite
or
B ): Add another Str-scaling form (perhaps one that also stacks Enraged) that procs from something that isn't Knocks (Enrage) or Bleeds (AotB)
For all of the kinds of builds that can benefit from Strength, there really isn't a whole lot of variation when it comes to Strength-based Forms. Additionally, as I've said for a while now, I would love to see a true Tanking Form (IDF doesn't really count. Really. I mean, sorta, it does. But not really). Something that adds stacks based on incoming damage.
I also feel like more emphasis is going to be placed on interacting with your Forms. I see more mechanics similar to MA's Rush in the future!
Who needs an EU when you're Rushin'?
I really hope you get the double entendre there. It's like layers and layers of wit.
I really like Option A. It makes more sense really. Why am I getting more enraged by knocking enemies around? Shouldn't them knocking ME around be what is ticking me off? Because trust me this latest event has me ENRAGED from all the knocking and nearly unavoidable damage. So gaining stacks for taking damage and thus making it an obvious tank Form really makes sense.
I actually run several builds that are knock back heavy and I have never once had a group that found my use of knocks annoying. The reason? Because I understand how to use them to the advantage of everyone. And no, it's not by quickly building up knock resist on everything so that I don't send them flying across the map and scatter groups...
If I'm on Vector I'll use Force Geyser to single out a problem enemy (such as Viper Power Armor) and while they are airborn Force Detonate to launch that one enemy out of the fight while we deal with the rest of the group, and if I'm quick enough I'll tag them with a stun before they are out of my range so they stay gone a little longer. If I'm on Nekomi I'll usually go deal with a group of enemies on my own, Roomsweeper the whole group to weed out the trash mobs then Haymaker any problem targets that remain when they get back while I beat down the remaining enemies. On Paradigm I'll Rocket Fist problem targets to get them out of the way and full charge Havoc Stomp if I get too many enemies on me at one time.
I'm sure by now you can pick up on the pattern... Single out problem enemies and remove them from the fight with a strong knock back, use wide AoE knockbacks to weed out trash and/or to get mobs off you. If you don't have a single target knock back but you've got a single target knock up, then combine them to make a single target knock back when needed.
Here is a better idea... Pick out that same target and kill them. It is very easy in Champs to snipe things like Power Armors with one-hit-kills or at least take them out before they get a chance to do anything of value. The reason we do not like Knock-Backs most of the time is that we are intent upon dealing massive damage to that thing you just sent well out of our range. So they survive a lot longer than they otherwise would have. It is more absurd when you are a Melee in your own right trying to be able to kill something when you send it out of your own range of attack. The other fatal flaw of Knock is a big game design issue which is how often various enemies will glitch themselves into objects or do some other game breaking bug that makes them impossible to kill in MANY locations. That is not knock's fault it is the game's fault but it is a factor that one has to be careful about.
I do use some knocks to great effect mind you. One of my more favorite things to do is blast things away with Force Blast + Force Detonate + Toxic Nanites. This way I am able to often ensure their death. It is just that they are not the best for Melee characters often and you have to be rather careful about their use and acknowledge that in many situations it is not the best use of your moves or time. I do also AoE Knock as a way to get folks off me or someone else at times but if I am not alone I tend to be very careful about that so as not to just scatter enemies to the wind when my team would rather have them clustered to kill.
Knock-to is by far one of the best knocks in the game. Generally you want to create a tight wad of enemies. This helps everyone to AoE them into dust much more quickly. It also makes it a LOT easier for a Tank to grab aggro on a group. As my melee Tanks my favorite sight in the whole game is Implosion Engine sitting right on top of me.
Here is a better idea... Pick out that same target and kill them. It is very easy in Champs to snipe things like Power Armors with one-hit-kills or at least take them out before they get a chance to do anything of value. The reason we do not like Knock-Backs most of the time is that we are intent upon dealing massive damage to that thing you just sent well out of our range. So they survive a lot longer than they otherwise would have. It is more absurd when you are a Melee in your own right trying to be able to kill something when you send it out of your own range of attack. The other fatal flaw of Knock is a big game design issue which is how often various enemies will glitch themselves into objects or do some other game breaking bug that makes them impossible to kill in MANY locations. That is not knock's fault it is the game's fault but it is a factor that one has to be careful about.
I do use some knocks to great effect mind you. One of my more favorite things to do is blast things away with Force Blast + Force Detonate + Toxic Nanites. This way I am able to often ensure their death. It is just that they are not the best for Melee characters often and you have to be rather careful about their use and acknowledge that in many situations it is not the best use of your moves or time. I do also AoE Knock as a way to get folks off me or someone else at times but if I am not alone I tend to be very careful about that so as not to just scatter enemies to the wind when my team would rather have them clustered to kill.
Knock-to is by far one of the best knocks in the game. Generally you want to create a tight wad of enemies. This helps everyone to AoE them into dust much more quickly. It also makes it a LOT easier for a Tank to grab aggro on a group. As my melee Tanks my favorite sight in the whole game is Implosion Engine sitting right on top of me.
I don't knock those enemies across the map if I've got a group that is actively targeting those enemies to defeat them quickly, unless I am certain that the enemy won't be getting back up after my knock (which with my damage & knock strength tends to be under 40% health). Something I've done a few times when I've had teams that actually target priority enemies while on Vector was to knock said priority enemy with Geyser then quickly change target and detonate the trash mobs under them while that target is out of range of Detonate defeating all the henchmen outright (I make a point NOT to do this with Viper PA since they like to linger in the air).
I don't knock those enemies across the map if I've got a group that is actively targeting those enemies to defeat them quickly, unless I am certain that the enemy won't be getting back up after my knock (which with my damage & knock strength tends to be under 40% health). Something I've done a few times when I've had teams that actually target priority enemies while on Vector was to knock said priority enemy with Geyser then quickly change target and detonate the trash mobs under them while that target is out of range of Detonate defeating all the henchmen outright (I make a point NOT to do this with Viper PA since they like to linger in the air).
Ironically in addition sometimes I have found useful moments to knock enemies INTO the AoE slaughter. Sometimes you get certain NPC's who either actively try to stay out of it or just get there somehow. A lovetap in the right direction can often be quite useful.
As for the PA's flying around that can be rather annoying. I have actually resorted to carrying Nailed to the Ground on some abilities to help others kill those if I am on a support Toon.
Ironically in addition sometimes I have found useful moments to knock enemies INTO the AoE slaughter. Sometimes you get certain NPC's who either actively try to stay out of it or just get there somehow. A lovetap in the right direction can often be quite useful.
I have done that quite a few times as well. Which, btw, that still actually falls into the category of Crowd Control tactics... seriously Crowd Control isn't called that for no reason, you are quite literally controlling the crowd, either by positioning enemies where you want them or interfering with how they function. I guess in the broadest sense, Tanks are crowd controllers, manipulating enemies into tight knit groups around themselves and controlling who they can and can't attack...
Really, there should just be MORE knock-tos. While we do have a number of them already, like Force Snap, Grapple Gun Pull, Breakaway Shot w/ the Advantage, and many of the Chain-Based attacks, usually with advantages, I would really like to see more in the way of Knock-To powers. I guess the sentiment is that "Melee Characters are supposed to go to their enemy, not bring the enemy to them!" which is why there are at least one lunge per melee powerset (save for MA, which shares).
On a side note, I kinda wish Tractor Beam was actually... what's the word... "good"? I dunno, maybe add some sort of substantial defense debuff while you use it? You know, so allies can finish it off easier, therefore encouraging teamwork? I know this is sort of a tangent, but whatever.
It makes sense, if you don't think about it.
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Most often Slice N Dice@zap-the-eradicator in-game.
LOL what? No, it didn't run anywhere. I knocked it away, and it just sat in its new position as it continued to throw stuff at me.
Well there's your problem, you didn't knock it out of its attack range. Of course it didn't move, why would it? They're programmed to run back until they're in attack range. Did you really think you were making some sort of amazing revelation here?
Have all the fun you like making things up to argue about, but at the end of the day the fact remains: I use stuff to dominate content, and you complain about it being useless and crippling your ability to succeed ( or rather you complain that it cripples somebody's ability to succeed, but then admit that that person isn't you - an unfortunate side effect of trying to complain about a fabricated issue ). You can pretend you've made some amazing point all you like - once we both log in, the difference between winner and whiner becomes clear. Also, feel free to send me more vindictive whispers in-game about how great it makes you feel to see me die, I haven't put you on ignore because your salt makes me smile
Btw, above me are some more posts you should read to solve your fabricated problems with knocks.
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
If I had to venture a guess, I would imagine the process of reapplying your form is to make it so the player can't jump right back into combat after respawning, sort of making recovery more meaningful than just "push button, resume fighting". Another effect it has is that when you're rez'd, you need a few moments of relative safety to get yourself back together. It's actually kind of thematic when you think about it.
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
It's not that it's a bad mechanic, just an unpleasant one to deal with because several things will shut your form off and require you to reactivate it: death, mounting/dismounting a vehicle, using a become device, etc. They also probably want to discourage form dancing, which would happen if they could be activated instantly. What I mean by form dancing is this: Activate concentration while on the offense, then switch to inertial dampening field while on defense, then back to concentration without missing a beat. Also, since your stacks don't drop immediately upon deactivating a form, you could (in theory, not sure if this works and I'm not online to test) dance between several at once, like concentration, chilled form, compassion, etc to build up huge modifiers. Having an activation time on forms makes this very impractical.
As for having it always on instead of manually activating, what if someone wants 2 forms for a multi-role character?
My only wish is that death, vehicles, become devices, etc wouldn't require you to reactivate them. That's the only QoL change they really could use.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
It's not that it's a bad mechanic, just an unpleasant one to deal with because several things will shut your form off and require you to reactivate it: death, mounting/dismounting a vehicle, using a become device, etc. They also probably want to discourage form dancing, which would happen if they could be activated instantly. What I mean by form dancing is this: Activate concentration while on the offense, then switch to inertial dampening field while on defense, then back to concentration without missing a beat. Also, since your stacks don't drop immediately upon deactivating a form, you could (in theory, not sure if this works and I'm not online to test) dance between several at once, like concentration, chilled form, compassion, etc to build up huge modifiers. Having an activation time on forms makes this very impractical.
As for having it always on instead of manually activating, what if someone wants 2 forms for a multi-role character?
My only wish is that death, vehicles, become devices, etc wouldn't require you to reactivate them. That's the only QoL change they really could use.
They will also be toggled off by disables like the ones used by sovereign sons. Which is another reason why they must be manually activated. Disables can be devastating to form users since they force you to pull out of combat to reactivate your form or push on without it. Its a nice mechanic really.
If I had to venture a guess, I would imagine the process of reapplying your form is to make it so the player can't jump right back into combat after respawning, sort of making recovery more meaningful than just "push button, resume fighting".
I feel the pain, but this is actually a good mechanic. If I self-rez in the middle of a tough fight, I have to go without a form for a while, retreat and reactivate, or try to activate while fighting (often tough to do).
I appreciate game mechanics that make gameplay engaging (rather than automated), if I don't love those mechanics in the moment.
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
If I had to venture a guess, I would imagine the process of reapplying your form is to make it so the player can't jump right back into combat after respawning, sort of making recovery more meaningful than just "push button, resume fighting". Another effect it has is that when you're rez'd, you need a few moments of relative safety to get yourself back together. It's actually kind of thematic when you think about it.
Hmm... many other MMO's have this function; I believe the techinical term is called "Summoning Sickness". CO is very generous with the Summoning Sickness state; characters here only suffer reapplying buffs and toggles. Some games strip the player of their gear and spells and players have to go on a corpse hunt to find the spot where they died and reclaim their stuff, all while slowly regaining health and endurance. Any buffs, toggles and advantages have to be reapplied or restarted AFTER the player regains their stat gear, full health, endurance and mana (if a magic user). PVP defeat/death some other games are worse; if your opponent takes you out and you dont have a succesful corpse recovery within a certain amount of time, your corpse becomes available to loot by anyone.
Safe to say, CO Summoning Sickness is only a minor inconvenience.
Just want to check in with everyone who thought the Enrage change was this MASSIVE nerf that deserved all of the tears it got on the forums. Is it unusable now? Is the world a terrible place?
It's still a nearly-constant nuisance, especially with the bug where killing blows don't always add/refresh stacks. Forum Malvanum is particularly egregious here, since many of its cutscenes are just short enough that you can technically maintain stacks... If you don't run into that bug, and you use pounce, and you don't lag and... Etc.
It's all just annoying, really. "Massive nerf"? No, it was never that. But it's obnoxious and doesn't accomplish any of the goals the devs have claimed they had in making the change.
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
I am fine with activating it but I hate how long it takes to charge up. Especially considering how easy it is to interrupt and how often these Toggles are rather important to a build.
Just want to check in with everyone who thought the Enrage change was this MASSIVE nerf that deserved all of the tears it got on the forums. Is it unusable now? Is the world a terrible place?
Or are you basically fine?
It is not the end of the world but it is less usable now than before and can fall off altogether at annoying times depending on your setup.
Good. Now that you people have had your "Enraged Privilege" taken away, you can see what the rest of us "20-seconders" were going through.
Oh wait, atm I mostly play a HW character that uses Enraged o3o
...well, lucky for me I don't get all emotional about having to build stacks.
I hope you are not trying to imply that Enrage or Aspect of the Bestial are now suddenly or ever were the same as say Concentration or Compassion. Unless you jest. Concentration is so easy to stack up the only thing holding you back is the cooldown. Compassion literally stacks itself for me.
Still think Enrage should be based on taking damage.
I hope you are not trying to imply that Enrage or Aspect of the Bestial are now suddenly or ever were the same as say Concentration or Compassion. Unless you jest. Concentration is so easy to stack up the only thing holding you back is the cooldown. Compassion literally stacks itself for me.
Enrage is easy to stack too. Take it from someone who currently plays their toon that uses enrage the most.
Yes, sometimes my stacks fall off. So what? No really, people have cited this as the big bad thing that the change caused... but nobody has ever really pointed out why it's such a bad thing. I mean, when my Enrage toon tanks TA, they have to start the fight with 1 stack... so, what scenario is there were your stacks falling to 1 is so bad?
Comments
Nothing wrong with knock, but you have to use it properly, not just blast away with the "big gun" all the time.
EDIT: Also, please..."Into the wall, not down the hall!"
Anyways... as I've been trying to tell people for years... knock backs are not a bad mechanic by any means... they are a very effective form of crowd control... infact one of the most effective forms still left in the game... got some enemies you need to take out of the fight for a minute? Rocket them across the city and let them take their time comming back, need more time? Send them right on back across the city... odds are if they arn't dead by now they won't survive that 3rd punt into the stratosphere headded their way and in all likely hood you've dealt with your other targets by now anyways... Knocks are only consiered a problem in stuff like Dockside Dustup where knocking an enemy off the dock won't kill them and will usually get them stuck in the water until time runs out, or in some other alerts where there are environmental objects that they can get knocked into making the alert impossible to complete with certain teams.
So then when you talk about "scattering the entire group with knockback" you're completely full of it. Got it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
As long as I can hold a mantain power for half it's duration outside of combat (Epidemic, Hurricane), I can keep max stacks of Concentration/Chilled Form at all times with 0 investment on the Power, whereas most other forms require you to actively do something in combat (Bleed/Knock/Crit/Dodge) or to invest points in them to start at 3...wohoo!
Lesser perpetrators of this are Compassion (through Iniquity), Form of the Tiger (melee moves like Arc of Ruin).
Now do you understand?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I do understand WHY there are these knock away powers as they are iconic but I just get the feeling they do not really work as well in practice as they do in the Comics/Shows. Then again usually things say Hulk sends flying do NOT get back up.
A ): Give Enrage another way to proc Enraged (along with Knocks), most likely some sort of "Taking Damage" prerequisite
or
B ): Add another Str-scaling form (perhaps one that also stacks Enraged) that procs from something that isn't Knocks (Enrage) or Bleeds (AotB)
For all of the kinds of builds that can benefit from Strength, there really isn't a whole lot of variation when it comes to Strength-based Forms. Additionally, as I've said for a while now, I would love to see a true Tanking Form (IDF doesn't really count. Really. I mean, sorta, it does. But not really). Something that adds stacks based on incoming damage.
I also feel like more emphasis is going to be placed on interacting with your Forms. I see more mechanics similar to MA's Rush in the future!
Who needs an EU when you're Rushin'?
I really hope you get the double entendre there. It's like layers and layers of wit.
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Most often Slice N Dice@zap-the-eradicator in-game.
I actually run several builds that are knock back heavy and I have never once had a group that found my use of knocks annoying. The reason? Because I understand how to use them to the advantage of everyone. And no, it's not by quickly building up knock resist on everything so that I don't send them flying across the map and scatter groups...
If I'm on Vector I'll use Force Geyser to single out a problem enemy (such as Viper Power Armor) and while they are airborn Force Detonate to launch that one enemy out of the fight while we deal with the rest of the group, and if I'm quick enough I'll tag them with a stun before they are out of my range so they stay gone a little longer.
If I'm on Nekomi I'll usually go deal with a group of enemies on my own, Roomsweeper the whole group to weed out the trash mobs then Haymaker any problem targets that remain when they get back while I beat down the remaining enemies.
On Paradigm I'll Rocket Fist problem targets to get them out of the way and full charge Havoc Stomp if I get too many enemies on me at one time.
I'm sure by now you can pick up on the pattern... Single out problem enemies and remove them from the fight with a strong knock back, use wide AoE knockbacks to weed out trash and/or to get mobs off you. If you don't have a single target knock back but you've got a single target knock up, then combine them to make a single target knock back when needed.
On topic:
Focus stacks take too long to build up as a melee character, because often times we cannot close the distance in time and the stacks reset to 0. This is especially noticable in duels, but also in pve... and is rendering forms pretty much useless (for melee toons, especially Archetypes)
suggestion:
Either increase the uptime of focus stacks for melee builds, or lower the internal cooldown to 2 seconds. Ranged toons should ofc remain with a itc of 4 seconds for obvious reasons. CO is currently almost unplayable as a melee DPS toon unless you stack CON...
Let's stop favoring builds that rely on pewpew and focus more on what melee could benefit from.
Just my 25 1/2 cents
Here's an important concept for you to start on:
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Meet my friend, the Qliphothic Acolyte. Let's call him Qliphy.
I gave him a little love tap with Annihilate to show my affections. I waited for the entire time it took photoshop to load, but he never came back to me.
Feeling rejected, I decided to show my frustrations by playing golf with him, sending him a fully-charged Annihilate's distance away from his new location before running back to our initial meeting spot. He didn't come back this time, either.
So there you have it. Melee enemies, and perhaps enemies with both melee and ranged powers will run back, but strictly ranged enemies will gladly accept your free gap opener.
Maybe if I quote it again, you'll catch it this time. In fact, let's do it multiple times, just in case 1 isn't enough for it to sink in. You do know that Cleave is a knockdown rather than a knockback. Right? It sounds to me like you're one of the people who makes up their own crazy assumptions and invents their own stories about what they think other people are saying. Either reading comprehension is hard or the public school systems have utterly failed you.
If you botherd to read my post that Spinny quoted you'd have understood that "knock against knockimmune only" was NOT the objective.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Viper Power Armor
Demon Inner Circle Member
Argent Cyborg
Destroid Leader Drone
Viper Brickbuster
Psi Agent
Fox Battlebot Sound & Camera bots (I forget their actual names)
Dogz Ulfarnger (or however it's spelled)
Sovereign Sons Boitano
And that's just a few of the most prominent ones. These enemies are worth temporarily removing because of abilities that they have. Viper PA & Psi Agents for their knocks that ignore resistance, Leader Drones because of their massive damage buff, Brickbusters because of their absurd resistance debuff (Extremely important to remove them fast if you're grouped with a PFF tank, they invert PFF's bleedthrough from 10% to 90%)... if you pay attention to these targets long enough you'll learn exactly why they are all priority targets... and if you're grouped with players who don't understand to target them (which happens A LOT) then, if you have the ability to, you should remove the targets from the engagement to help everyone out.
That's really nothing more to it than this.
Edit: That aside, I haven't really encountered any knock-vulnerable enemies that have struck me as problematic enough to knock away temporarily. If I did, of course I'd consider playing golf with them, too. Edit2: The ones you listed never struck me as troublesome enough to give special care to--at least not on my knockback-capable character.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Honestly the mentality you just displayed is the exact reason that CC is in such a sorry state still... For crying out loud, even with new content that is making CC more valuable that exact same mentality is destroying any hope that CC will ever get it's much needed updates. Just look at TA, Cosmics, and even the new Nightmare Invasion event... all of those made CC more valuable than it's been in years... and yet, it didn't take long at all for people to find ways to complete them without the use of CC and once again make the whole idea of using CC a worthless endeavour in group content. It doesn't matter what form of CC your using be it holds or knocks people with that misguided mentality will ruin it.
So while yes "death is the ultimate form of CC" it is not the ONLY form nor is it the only form worth using. Often times it's actually more beneficial to use an actual form of CC rather than attempt to kill a target immediately. You know there are other MMOs that look at Healing in the same light that the community here looks at CC... In those MMOs the community prefers to prevent damage in the first place than to provide healing, interestingly enough forms of CC are far more effective for them. If we stop looking at dps as the end all be all of everything and start looking at the mechanics available as a whole I guarantee combat would be more engaging and content would be less hectic. Hell if the community actually starts to USE the various forms of CC as intended then we may infact see a massive shift in the direction of content. Less "straightforward kill everything in your sight" and more "tactical and heroic play style" the stuff many of us have been demanding for years.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Happens every time with that guy.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Don't do drugs. Drugs are bad. SpinnyStop
DPS is so easy to get in Champs it makes anything that isn't immune to CC almost pointless to use CC on. Even a fairly weak DPS'er can kill most trash mobs without much trouble and again the big group CC things take too long to do their thing to be that useful. Confusion effects are pretty much worthless and the effect of Endbringer's Grasp is almost worse than useless.
It would be nice if maybe we had different CC options or ones that were quick on the draw. I actually love Gas Arrow for this reason. It is horrible DPS and its CC is not that serious but it WORKS and it works on a lot of things, even some bosses, and it is fast and cheap to use. Sonic Device is nice for this reason too. Heck even Entangling Mesh is vaguely ok but sub par compared to Implosion Engine.
I get what you are saying but you have to also be able to see that with the game in its current state using CC is very ineffective and inefficient because it currently does not really work very well. That is why people are trying to find ways around ever having to deal with it. It has been so useless for so long that most characters do not even have it available anymore. I generally do not use much CC on any of my Toons because of how pointless it is.
Also this Nightmare Invasion is not much of a good example of a place to use CC. That crowd is far too big and spread out to make it very useful unless you mean to just blast everyone away with Force Cascade and try to take out the portal before they return and then run maybe. It is simply easier to do massive AoE and just kill everything. If anything it just aggravates the players more that the enemy is CONSTANTLY using CC on us that hardly does anything to THEM.
I do use some knocks to great effect mind you. One of my more favorite things to do is blast things away with Force Blast + Force Detonate + Toxic Nanites. This way I am able to often ensure their death. It is just that they are not the best for Melee characters often and you have to be rather careful about their use and acknowledge that in many situations it is not the best use of your moves or time. I do also AoE Knock as a way to get folks off me or someone else at times but if I am not alone I tend to be very careful about that so as not to just scatter enemies to the wind when my team would rather have them clustered to kill.
Knock-to is by far one of the best knocks in the game. Generally you want to create a tight wad of enemies. This helps everyone to AoE them into dust much more quickly. It also makes it a LOT easier for a Tank to grab aggro on a group. As my melee Tanks my favorite sight in the whole game is Implosion Engine sitting right on top of me.
As for the PA's flying around that can be rather annoying. I have actually resorted to carrying Nailed to the Ground on some abilities to help others kill those if I am on a support Toon.
On a side note, I kinda wish Tractor Beam was actually... what's the word... "good"? I dunno, maybe add some sort of substantial defense debuff while you use it? You know, so allies can finish it off easier, therefore encouraging teamwork? I know this is sort of a tangent, but whatever.
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Most often Slice N Dice@zap-the-eradicator in-game.
Have all the fun you like making things up to argue about, but at the end of the day the fact remains: I use stuff to dominate content, and you complain about it being useless and crippling your ability to succeed ( or rather you complain that it cripples somebody's ability to succeed, but then admit that that person isn't you - an unfortunate side effect of trying to complain about a fabricated issue ). You can pretend you've made some amazing point all you like - once we both log in, the difference between winner and whiner becomes clear. Also, feel free to send me more vindictive whispers in-game about how great it makes you feel to see me die, I haven't put you on ignore because your salt makes me smile
Btw, above me are some more posts you should read to solve your fabricated problems with knocks.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
A great bugger to me is how you need to activate your form yourself. Why not have it on all the time ? And why does the charge cancel when you move ? Just feels like anti-quality of life features that do not really add anything to balance.
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
As for having it always on instead of manually activating, what if someone wants 2 forms for a multi-role character?
My only wish is that death, vehicles, become devices, etc wouldn't require you to reactivate them. That's the only QoL change they really could use.
I appreciate game mechanics that make gameplay engaging (rather than automated), if I don't love those mechanics in the moment.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Safe to say, CO Summoning Sickness is only a minor inconvenience.
So dont hate, appreciate!
Or are you basically fine?
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
It's all just annoying, really. "Massive nerf"? No, it was never that. But it's obnoxious and doesn't accomplish any of the goals the devs have claimed they had in making the change.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Oh wait, atm I mostly play a HW character that uses Enraged o3o
...well, lucky for me I don't get all emotional about having to build stacks.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Still think Enrage should be based on taking damage.
Yes, sometimes my stacks fall off. So what? No really, people have cited this as the big bad thing that the change caused... but nobody has ever really pointed out why it's such a bad thing. I mean, when my Enrage toon tanks TA, they have to start the fight with 1 stack... so, what scenario is there were your stacks falling to 1 is so bad?
That would be great for all the dpsers who use it, or tanks that are trying to get aggro on something.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.