Honestly, OVs are supposed to be PvP, the big problem with Onslaught is that attacking an OV is spectacularly useless unless there's another ten people ready to jump in.
Honestly, OVs are supposed to be PvP, the big problem with Onslaught is that attacking an OV is spectacularly useless unless there's another ten people ready to jump in.
I dunno... if it's supposed to be pvp, then what's all this pve stuff we're expected to do?
I dunno... if it's supposed to be pvp, then what's all this pve stuff we're expected to do?
You need 10 kills to complete the quest. 3 of them are PvE kills. That leaves 7 for PvP. And it's impossible to complete the Guardian daily quests via PvE.
I dunno... if it's supposed to be pvp, then what's all this pve stuff we're expected to do?
You need 10 kills to complete the quest. 3 of them are PvE kills. That leaves 7 for PvP. And it's impossible to complete the Guardian daily quests via PvE.
So then it's a mix of pvp and pve, not just pvp, with the villain side leaning more towards pve, and the player side more towards pvp. I mean, this change does lean the villain side more towards pvp since it makes it more difficult to satisfy the daily with just npcs.
1) From what I can tell, this is what they intended, for us to hop from point to point killing NPCs then maybe defeating some players afterwards. Sure, you may not like it, I may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's not working.
2) I dunno, I kind of feel like having the secondary NPCs reward VTs might just make the griefers giggle with delight as they realize they can grief you and get rewarded in the process.
1) Except what they likely intended obviously doesn't work anymore. It only did before thanks to instant respawns. 15 minutes isn't enough time to get 50 tokens under the current spawn times unless you bag 3 defenders, then head to the ren center and lay waste to players. Assuming there's enough there and they are willing to even attack in the first place. The points are too far apart and, with the existing respawn problem, you probably won't even find defenders at many of them. This is under the best case scenario, where nobody but you is running around with an OV.
Do you seriously think that "kill 3 defenders, then run to the ren center and hope to kill players, but only during peak hours in the active instances" is what the original intent was?
2) Under your suggestion, they'd still get rewarded for griefing. 5 VTs per defender. Kill nothing but defenders. Walk away with some extra VTs and a trollface smile. Meanwhile, the next person comes a long and sure, gets credit for clearing the little trash at each point, but at the end of the day, their VT count is at 0/50 and the clock is still counting down...
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Do you seriously think that "kill 3 defenders, then run to the ren center and hope to kill players, but only during peak hours in the active instances" is what the original intent was?
The original intent was "kill 3 defenders while players try to hunt you down and kill you". The run to ren cen stuff is because players don't try to hunt down OVs because the rewards for doing so suck.
1) Yes, I think "go kill a few NPCs then go pvp" was the intent here. Many players were instead just doing the "go kill npcs" part, which was the issue. The mission, nor any of the mechanics involved, require you to be in any given location to get VTs from defeating players, so going to ren cen to do it likely isn't an issue. If anything it might be the part going most right... why shouldn't the villain go stomping around in the very heart of the heroes' citadel?
2) You're right, they need to also remove the VT you get just for killing the defender. Add that to my solution, even more effective.
1) Yes, I think "go kill a few NPCs then go pvp" was the intent here. Many players were instead just doing the "go kill npcs" part, which was the issue. The mission, nor any of the mechanics involved, require you to be in any given location to get VTs from defeating players, so going to ren cen to do it likely isn't an issue. If anything it might be the part going most right... why shouldn't the villain go stomping around in the very heart of the heroes' citadel?
2) You're right, they need to also remove the VT you get just for killing the defender. Add that to my solution, even more effective.
1) Except as I already stated, the pvp aspect doesn't always work. Personal experience from myself and others makes it very clear that, unless you do this during peak hours, you're probably not going to get your forced PvP (more like "gank") kills in. A good developer knows to adapt their vision so that it fits with reality, rather than trying to impose that vision, no matter how flawed it turns out to be when put into practice.
2) That is utterly terrible.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Well, looks like they're kind of going with your solution. Hope it works. People still won't know they're supposed to defeat the lesser npcs, so we'll see
Well, looks like they're kind of going with your solution. Hope it works. People still won't know they're supposed to defeat the lesser npcs, so we'll see
Which one? I've actually proposed several.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Each UNTIL dude with a Defender will have a 50% chance of dropping a Villain Token.
Not sure why that isn't 100% chance. Going from 5 to 7.5 VT on average per group is okay, but it means spending the time killing all those mooks. 10 would definitely be worthwhile, 7.5... *shrug*... maybe. Except because its a chance, gambler's ruin will make some runs of soldier killing really worthless. And it won't make it particularly worthwhile to clean up someone else's leftovers.
Each UNTIL dude with a Defender will have a 50% chance of dropping a Villain Token.
Not sure why that isn't 100% chance. Going from 5 to 7.5 VT on average per group is okay, but it means spending the time killing all those mooks. 10 would definitely be worthwhile, 7.5... *shrug*... maybe. Except because its a chance, gambler's ruin will make some runs of soldier killing really worthless. And it won't make it particularly worthwhile to clean up someone else's leftovers.
Yeah I just went over and checked the patch notes. I'll have to try it out, but I suspect it'll still be pretty tricky to pull off in a single day. Assuming an average of 7.5 per spawn point, you'll need to hit a bit under 7 points in under 15 minutes in order to pull the daily off. Maybe 8-9 for partially-cleared points. Over time, as more and more realize they can get tokens from the little guys, partially-cleared points will be less and less of a problem given how quickly they can be killed.
Some figures for an average 7 point run:
17.5 tokens from little guys 35 tokens from defenders
I'd like to try it myself, but since it's still limited to subscribers, I'll have to just ask that people try it out and see if the daily is doable with this change. 100% would be preferred, but anything is better than what we have right now.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Each UNTIL dude with a Defender will have a 50% chance of dropping a Villain Token.
Not sure why that isn't 100% chance. Going from 5 to 7.5 VT on average per group is okay, but it means spending the time killing all those mooks. 10 would definitely be worthwhile, 7.5... *shrug*... maybe. Except because its a chance, gambler's ruin will make some runs of soldier killing really worthless. And it won't make it particularly worthwhile to clean up someone else's leftovers.
It's "maybe" worth the extra 10 seconds to get a couple tokens? It helps toward the 50 you need for the daily. I really don't see any reason not to kill them still.
I think it is still easier to have a 2nd account and kill a low level hero repeatedly. That has 100% chance of getting 5 VTs and can be done in about 10 minutes (including the 3 initial defenders).
I'd like to try it myself, but since it's still limited to subscribers, I'll have to just ask that people try it out and see if the daily is doable with this change.
It's doable without this change. It's just not reliable. The point of this change is to make it so you don't have partial spawns sitting around, not to make it easier per se.
Ain't limited to subscribers. You can buy the becomes and spend just 1000 guardian tokens to use it. Or Questionite.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. I meant that the test server is limited to subscribers, so I was hoping people would try the daily out and see if it's reasonable to complete now.
It's doable without this change. It's just not reliable. The point of this change is to make it so you don't have partial spawns sitting around, not to make it easier per se.
I only managed to do it properly once, and that's when I got on early enough to still have people to slaughter in Ren center after getting my 3 defenders. Even then, I had to turret dive before it wore off so anyone hitting me would get tokens.
Doable? Yeah, but only with a fair amount of luck.
That said, it's not about making it easier, as it's not really hard content in the first place. At this point, all people really want is a way to make it doable in a more reliable way before the 15 minute timer hits 0.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
That said, it's not about making it easier, as it's not really hard content in the first place. At this point, all people really want is a way to make it doable in a more reliable way before the 15 minute timer hits 0.
That said, it's not about making it easier, as it's not really hard content in the first place. At this point, all people really want is a way to make it doable in a more reliable way before the 15 minute timer hits 0.
That's called "making it easier".
No, that's called 'less tedious'. Difficulty is something different..
Edit: and with the extreme grind that VT already are, it should not be difficult to *complete the daily* on *one device use*. If it's going to be difficult, the VT prices need to be reduced *substantially*, like an order of magnitude substantially. Otherwise no one is going to bother. (Very few people are still bothering as it is).
That said, it's not about making it easier, as it's not really hard content in the first place. At this point, all people really want is a way to make it doable in a more reliable way before the 15 minute timer hits 0.
That's called "making it easier".
You and I are clearly talking about two different types of "difficulty."
To me, acceptable difficulty in content means, "Damn, I didn't complete my daily because I wasn't paying attention and made several dumb mistakes which resulting in me dying before I got enough tokens. Next time, I'll be fine if I remember to avoid the defenders' lethal attacks."
The type of "difficulty" you're talking about is, "Ugh, I couldn't complete my daily because two other guys were also doing it, taking up all the thinly-spread kills. Also, several spawn points were only half-cleared with no defender, so by the time I got 3 kills and about 20 tokens, the device wore off. Maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow."
The former is good and is what keeps games interesting. The latter is the result of poor design and only generates frustration and resentment among players.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Comments
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Do you seriously think that "kill 3 defenders, then run to the ren center and hope to kill players, but only during peak hours in the active instances" is what the original intent was?
2) Under your suggestion, they'd still get rewarded for griefing. 5 VTs per defender. Kill nothing but defenders. Walk away with some extra VTs and a trollface smile. Meanwhile, the next person comes a long and sure, gets credit for clearing the little trash at each point, but at the end of the day, their VT count is at 0/50 and the clock is still counting down...
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
2) You're right, they need to also remove the VT you get just for killing the defender. Add that to my solution, even more effective.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
2) That is utterly terrible.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Some figures for an average 7 point run:
17.5 tokens from little guys
35 tokens from defenders
I'd like to try it myself, but since it's still limited to subscribers, I'll have to just ask that people try it out and see if the daily is doable with this change. 100% would be preferred, but anything is better than what we have right now.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Doable? Yeah, but only with a fair amount of luck.
That said, it's not about making it easier, as it's not really hard content in the first place. At this point, all people really want is a way to make it doable in a more reliable way before the 15 minute timer hits 0.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Edit: and with the extreme grind that VT already are, it should not be difficult to *complete the daily* on *one device use*. If it's going to be difficult, the VT prices need to be reduced *substantially*, like an order of magnitude substantially. Otherwise no one is going to bother. (Very few people are still bothering as it is).
To me, acceptable difficulty in content means, "Damn, I didn't complete my daily because I wasn't paying attention and made several dumb mistakes which resulting in me dying before I got enough tokens. Next time, I'll be fine if I remember to avoid the defenders' lethal attacks."
The type of "difficulty" you're talking about is, "Ugh, I couldn't complete my daily because two other guys were also doing it, taking up all the thinly-spread kills. Also, several spawn points were only half-cleared with no defender, so by the time I got 3 kills and about 20 tokens, the device wore off. Maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow."
The former is good and is what keeps games interesting. The latter is the result of poor design and only generates frustration and resentment among players.