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FC.31.20160210.37 - Bug Fixes
kaiserin
Posts: 3,093 Cryptic Developer
Power Changes
A few powers have had their cost adjusted to account for their effects:
Costumes
Misc
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go here: http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/categories/gameplay-bugs1. Posts that do not pertain to the current PTS patch will be removed.
These player & moderator maintained threads are checked weekly by the development team.
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1203590/costume-bug-list
- http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1203148/onslaught-bugs-and-balance-qol-concerns
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198089/known-power-bugs
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1194284/champions-online-alerts-issues
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198119/compiled-list-of-bugs-issues-and-qol-concerns-version-2-0
A few powers have had their cost adjusted to account for their effects:
- Slightly reduced cost on Power Chord.
- Slightly reduced cost on Skullcrusher.
- Slightly increased cost on Cleave.
- Slightly increased cost on Eruption.
- Reduced cost on Vicious Descent.
- Reduced cost on Brute Strike and Pistol Whip.
- Adjusted cost for Holy Water's friendly effect to differ from the offensive effect.
- Firesnake should properly path to the target for realsies.
- Hyper Voice now has rank up FX.
- Arc of ruin no longer requires a target to use.
- Holy Water can now be colored.
- Soul Vortex can now be colored.
- Eruption's cooldown increased to 10 seconds.
- Eruption's Magma Burst ability has a higher chance to apply Clinging Flames on your main target.
Costumes
- Added Kitsune 3 tails costume to the Animal Pack.
- Made the Kitsune tail less hyperactive.
- Squirrel Tail now has a second variant that can use the tail slider.
- Fixed the Squirrel Tail 2 bounce.
- Fixed the Dog tail bounce.
- Added male versions of Husky, Lion and Hyena heads.
- Resized the male Husky and Fox heads so they can use hairs a little better.
- Added Electric and Acoustic guitars as basic heavy weapon options.
Misc
- Fixed a bug where the Teleios Ascendant daily mission was under the wrong journal category.
- Added Foxbat currency to the PTS store.
- Fixed a description error with the foam finger slap.
- Added Extreme Hair to the questionite store.
- Removed Shadow Material from the questionite store. This will return during the Nightmare Event.
- Updated Rockstar archetype to have the Electric Guitar as a default weapon.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go here: http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/categories/gameplay-bugs1. Posts that do not pertain to the current PTS patch will be removed.
These player & moderator maintained threads are checked weekly by the development team.
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1203590/costume-bug-list
- http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1203148/onslaught-bugs-and-balance-qol-concerns
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198089/known-power-bugs
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1194284/champions-online-alerts-issues
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198119/compiled-list-of-bugs-issues-and-qol-concerns-version-2-0
Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
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Comments
Even with top of the line gear, it's pretty much impossible to get enough cost reduction to use skewer and cd reduction to use Eruption with these changes. (The cooldown is the big deal here).
And it's official. We're all bad people for using skewer over skullcrusher on our Devastators. Now Skullcrusher is as much damage as Skewer for like half the energy cost, and it knocks, so it stacks enrage by itself. (Which, since eruption now has unplayably long CD, makes it not only a 'you only have to spam this power' choice for devastators, but the *only* viable non-Brimstone attack they get).
Is PTS back up yet? I need to check some numbers on my devastator, but you're wrecking virtually all the existing Devastators with these changes (including skewer cost change) and forcing them into a 'mash one button to win' build for *no good reason whatsoever*.
No one has ever even suggested any HW power is overperforming in the slightest, so I am completely baffled by these changes. So please explain this business strategy to me: Release awesome new HW skin, but make most of the HW attacks terrible and wreck the existing HW AT.
Edit: PTS tested: Eruption CD is so ridiculously long that it can't be used to cycle other HW attacks anymore. Eruption-Arc-Skewer xN is completely unplayable, even with top tier gear.
Since other frameworks have perfectly viable attack cycles that work, some even simpler than that, I have no idea why this was targeted for total destruction.
Will do some testing with the alternate power choices, but Eruption's CD is now ridiculously long for what it does. You'd think it was a stun.. oh wait, the melee stuns *don't even have a cd at all*.
Suggestion: Rocker is wearing a Dogz tshirt not currently available to players. Please change it out to something we can access, or add it to the Dogz' loot table. otherwise people will think it comes in the lockbox.
Edit:
Bug: Redid the Real Foxbat mission. It looks like Foxbat's den wall is clipping slightly into his bedroom floor.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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All powers measured with Str/con/rec, no gear, no passive, no toggle, and identical spec trees and talents. (As I'm not about to actually retcon a toon live, these are based on tooltip, not actual performance).
Test Build is here: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=13&n=Control Telepath&d=1173WAPEd9G0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003bhs3T3B0ca1
PTS now (3/17)
Eruption: 684 damage (342 ea. fire + crush), .83s activate, 10' cone, 13' knock up, 41 energy, 10s cd
Annihilate: 666-1585 damage, 1.17 charge, .83 activate (2s total), single target, 39-78' knock, 38-57 energy
Skullcrusher: 334-906 damage (167-453 ea fire + crush), .83 charge, .67 activate (1.5s total), 10x3 cylinder, knockdown, 20-62 energy (!!!)
Skewer: 509-1085 damage (339-723 to secondary), .83 charge, .67 activate (1.5s total), 10x3 cylinder, bleed, 35-50 energy
Live now (3/17)
Eruption: 802 damage, .83s activate, single target, 13' knock up, 37 energy, 3s cd
Annihilate: 702-1676 damage, 1.17 charge, .83 activate (2s total), single target, 39-78' knock, 32-51 energy
Skullcrusher: 392-1063 damage, .83 charge, .67 activate (1.5s total), 10x3 cylinder, knockdown, 20-60 energy
Skewer: 518-1035 damage (345-690 to secondary), .83 charge, .67 activate (1.5s total), 10x3 cylinder, enrage, 23-39 energy
Conclusions:
1. Eruption deals 85% of its live damage on PTS. It was made an AoE. And it gained 4 energy cost and had its cd *more than tripled*.
Verdict: Serious nerf. It was a utility / energy management power before. Making it an AoE totally changes the power to do something HW already does (Brimstone, Earthsplitter), except Eruption does it far worse (yes, even than Earthsplitter, which has no cd and costs 33% less energy on tap). And we lose the functionality Eruption actually had before. No one could have proposed these changes who has ever actually played a HW character before.
2. Annihilate actually *lost 5% damage* despite moving to tier 3, and added 6 energy cost. (An increase of about 15% for tap).
Verdict: Substantial nerf.
3. Skullcrusher lost 15% of its damage, and actually *increased* in energy cost on charge, despite change notes to the contrary in OP.
Verdict: Serious nerf
4. Skewer actually gained 5% damage on full charge, but had its costs increased over 50% on tap and 28% on full charge.
Verdict: Serious nerf
For a powerset which *no one* thinks is overpowered, there's nothing but nerfs here, most of them incredibly serious. And most of the damage changes, despite being 5% or more, were never even mentioned in change summaries.
If these changes go live, Devastator is dead as a playable AT. Literally the only thing it won't suck at is spamming Brimstone, which will outperform all its other powers on even *single target* dps because of energy issues, and it doesn't get that until 40. Leveling to that point will be an exercise in frustration, and i doubt most players will bother.
And it can't be a build difference, because then the net changes on everything would be *the same*. But Skewer's damage range expanded and the top end increased, while the others decreased - that can't happen by a spec or talent being 'misplaced', even if i was so sloppy.
Kitsune 3 tail not showing in the costume creator or the costume listings at all.
Why don't you try stripping off your gear, removing your passive, turning off your toggle, and then checking? There might be other sources of difference that you're bundling together because you haven't stripped a character down to essentials and looked at the powers that way. (Why those things would combine to create different outcomes I don't know, but your comparing apples to oranges when you're comparing a fully kitted character to the data i provided).
Edit: If you're using Arc of Ruin, it debuffs defense more now than it used to, so that would show an increase in damage.
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Comparing some HW attacks before all the changes and on the PTS now:
(lvl 40 gear/stat/star-less Hybrid; 5s in all stats, TP turned off)
-Annihilate-
Current PTS: 348-828 dmg, 37-55 energy, 17-35ft KB
Before Revision: 306-731 dmg, 32-51 energy, 17-35ft KB
-Eruption-
New: 179+179 (358) dmg, 40 energy, 10ft KU, 10sec cd
Old: 350 dmg, 38 energy, 10ft KU, 3sec cd
-Skewer-
New: 266-567 dmg, 34-48 energy,177-378 splash dmg, 22-50% bleed chance
Old: 283-556 dmg, 23-39 energy, 189-371 splash dmg
-Skullcrusher-
New: 87-237 + 87-237 (174-474) dmg, 20-60 energy, KD, 50-100% Disorient
Old: 171-464 dmg, 23-60 energy, KD
-Arc of Ruin-
New: 245-585 dmg, 32-57 energy, 42-100% Disorient, 360-d cone
Old: 245-585 dmg, 32-51 energy, Disorient on full charge, 120-d cone
-Vicious Descent-
New: 120+120 (240) dmg, 38 energy, 1x Great Power, 15sec cd
Old: 236 dmg, 43 energy, 15sec cd
-Brute Strike-
New: 0.5sec activation, 127 dmg, 14 energy, 1.7sec stun
Old: 0.67sec activation, 170 dmg, 20 energy, 1.7sec stun
(activation/charge time for all the others is the same, afaik)
So.. Annihilate hits ~13% harder on charge, but costs ~8% more.
Eruption hits a tad harder and costs a tad more (2% or so), and can now apply CF seemingly at 100% w/ Magma Burst now, but had its base cd more than tripled (ow).
Skewer got its charge dps upped slightly (~2%), but its energy cost bumped up a good deal (by 23%), and now has a bleed mechanic.
Skullcrusher had its charged dps slightly boosted (2%), and can now Disorient.
Arc is the same for dmg, though now doesn't require a target, is a full 360 AoE, and gained more in its special adv on allowing a CF refresh and stronger debuffing adv (15%+15% vs. +10% crushing iirc)- which helps the whole tree greatly (though kinda ties it to this power). Also costs a bit more on charge to compensate (~12% increase).
Vicious Descent is overall just a bit better now.
Brute Strike and Pistol Whip are now pretty much clone powers, though I suppose that's a good thing. Pistol Whip is a bit more energy (14 vs. 18), but eh.. Muni already has a built in EU.
So what hurts the most now is Eruption's new 10sec base cd, and Skewer's energy being hiked a bit. The cd hit to Eruption is prob to counteract Magma Burst being at (or near) a 100% CF apply to the primary target now, and I assume Skewer's energy hike was to offset the bleed? Dunno.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I think "unusable" is a bit of an unrealistic assessment. This isn't the first power in the game to have a 10 second cooldown, and Enrage stacks last longer than 10 seconds.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Who wanted CF at all? Not all or even most HW users care about the new fire/crushing combination, and won't choose fire-related advantages. (Yeah, we're still forced to deal fire damage, but at least we won't *see* it if we don't snag the advantages).
Magma Burst is an *advantage*, not the base power.
Eruption's core functionality wasn't AoE damage (it wasn't even AoE before!) or CF application, it was knock for the energy returns and enrage stacking.
Yes, Enrage lasts longer than 10s, but that dramatically slows enrage stack building for boss fights, which is a huge dps hit. (Unskippable cutscenes = drop enrage stacks, yay). Or, you know, every single stupid Forum Malvanum cutscene.
And it means you need to not run out of energy for 10s, then still have the energy necessary to use it at the end of that time. 10s is a long time when you're talking 50 energy spent every 1.5s. The eruption change would make *old skewer* hard to work with, and makes new skewer unplayable.
(Back of the napkin math: an optimized stat distribution Devastator w/ top tier gear has ~135 energy and starts at max. Every 10s they need to have 41 energy available to pop eruption, which takes .83s to happen. That leaves 9.17s during which they have only 94 energy to use. Now, they can use utility gear to decrease cost and cd, but they're not getting the eruption cd under ~7s, and they're not getting costs below half, and they're not doing both of those at the same time, even with the absolute best gear in the game. But even if we assume they magically did, 6.17s is 4 charged Skewers and a slight delay before they can pop the next eruption. At half energy costs they barely have enough energy to use all 4 skewers and pop the eruption, and they better hope the eruption actually fills the energy bar because otherwise that's not sustainable. And that magical world assumes we have like 4 utility core slots and double cdr/cost red on utility gear so we can do extreme cost reduction and extreme cdr at the same time. And that doesn't even address what you do while you're leveling).
I'm serious, these changes make Devastators a one-power AT, and that power is *Brimstone*, which they won't get until 40.
I'm going to ask again: why are we ruining a perfectly functional AT that was extremely fun to play? And why are we shoving the fire stuff down all HW users throats instead of making it more optional?
(And instead of ruining Eruption to create a totally new power, why not turn Earthsplitter into this new power they want, since Eruption was fine as it was, and Earthsplitter is unplayably bad).
It is nice to have an instant, rather cheap melee CF apply that now seems guaranteed. Maybe they could get rid of the AoE/dmg portion of the Magma adv and drop its base cd back down- so ya pick between more dmg from a normal rank, or more utility via CF.
Then Eruption's cd wouldn't necc have to be nerfed for builds not using it for CF or Thermal Reverb. Cause imo the power isn't really worth a 10 sec cd w/o the CF adv. It kinda is justifiable when ya consider that Arc can now refresh it on demand, but if ur not using the entire HW/Fire synergy now, its rather frustrating.
edit- As an example: a typical HW/Fire setup would be something like Enrage + R3 Annihilate + Arc w/ both advs + R2 Eruption w/MB adv + Thermal Reverb. Eruption applies CF, Arc debuffs and refreshes CF, Annihilate is the main filler.
An interesting non-CF HW setup using Eruption could be something like Enrage + R3 Skewer w/ 1pt adv + R3 Eruption + R3 Reaper's Embrace + MSA + any Physical dmg debuffs. But for this option to not be so clunky it'd rely on Eruption having a shorter cd, as Skewer doesn't innately work w/ or help w/ any EUs out there.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
In case you're wondering, HW wasn't changed because people asked for it( and there are more reasons to make changes to the game than people asking for changes ), it was changed because there's too much Crushing damage in the game, with too many Crushing damage debuffs. HW was changed so that out-of-set Crushing debuffs wouldn't be as useful to it. Instead, its most useful debuff is now in-set; this is likely a standard that you can see the game shifting to - sets having better synergy within themselves so that people can see some more reward for picking a grouping of powers from a given set. Cross-set synergies will of course remain - in fact, HW now has more cross-set synergies than it ever has, which in my opinion makes it a lot more interesting. I feel like the trend is more towards making powers more "robust" rather than stripping them down to lower the cost of use ( see 2GM ). With the aoe damage, Erupt is a more versatile power that can be used for more situations. If you remove the aoe it starts to become relegated to a "refresh" power, whose only use is to refresh enrage and/or CF, which to me feels kind of boring. Also don't forget that CF itself adds damage - most people don't pay any mind to just how much damage these little dots add to the use of a power.
I realize that it is painful to have to adjust to such a big change - and it is a big change, no doubt there - but I feel like a little bit down the line when you have adjusted to it, you'll feel like ten seconds isn't really that long and that Eruption just feels cooler when you do use it. After all, if it wasn't worth using then nobody would be complaining about having to wait to use it right?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Anyways I guess I was just thinking of non-CF HW builds now, and one that could really benefit from a shorter Eruption cd would be something like Enrage + R3 Skewer w/ 1pt adv + R3 Eruption + R3 Reaper's Embrace + MSA + w/e other Physical debuffs. Its nice to have a short cd on Eruption there to help w/ Enrage and MSA, as Skewer itself doesn't innately work w/ or help along w/ any EUs.
I dunno, something so people could choose- just like the entire HW tree now, where it'd be nice to not have to go w/ the Fire supplement. Guess that's the price for making HW's dmg competitive.
edit: on further thought, I'd prob re-balance Eruption's cd somewhere in the middle. A 6-sec base should lower its cd to the 4-4.5 sec range w/ decent CDR now, which is enough to stack ENrage off the 3-4 sec proc icd if ur on point w/ it.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Also, CF for single target rotations on bosses in HW is very fragile, Arc of Ruin just has to be delayed for 3 seconds at the wrong moment and you'll and up with having to apply CF again. Comparing this to Bestial (since that set is the closest in having to keep up both a debuff and a DoT all the time), with Massacre you are constantly refreshing all your bleeds, so the only time you are in danger of losing them is when you can't use Massacre for >10 seconds. The only thing you'll have to re-apply for bestial is the shred debuff, which you need to do anyway. That is a reason to give HW a quick option to apply CF again, not a reason to then nerf the power that does that.
Before I even posted in this thread I did do a test run through Andrith ruins using Eruption, and 10 seconds (7.5 seconds actually) just proved to long for me. I was constantly waiting, waiting for CF for energy and to be able to use Annihilate at full effect and waiting for knocks to build Enrage. Of course this could be fixed by adding yet another attack, but that would start taking its toll on utility, and I think the requirements on how many powers to use just to have the set use its intended synergies, and still function, are already strict enough.
As for HW and Eruption, there are other HW powers that proc Enrage without cooldown. Annihilate and Skullcrusher both have knocks, and throwing Vicious Descent (w/adv) in once in a while works, too. Heck, one could alternate between between Eruption and Vicious Descent to build stacks of Enrage.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
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Thats not nice Go home Fire snake, you are Drunk!
EXTREME HAIR you say? wait how will this work?
Can someone post Images?
OH MY GOD! I know that piece! Sonic the Hedgehog hair
Extreme Hair also comes with 'fire' texture, which is just it says on the tin
the models are GREAT
the Textures are horrible, they are too grim and realistic and go against CO's cartoonish enviroment. Just compare them to the current heads! They just out of place
Don't replace them, just add additional options
also, Request, can someone post a picture of the Bull head, its the only piece I haven't seen
I'm not too picky about the realistic textures, but I've noticed, thanks to some friends, that there isn't a lot of pattern customization in some of the heads. Mainly, I'd love to see a color-pattern on the otter head where the underside of the snout can be colored. This would allow it a little more leeway for things other than... Just being an otter (having a character that's a stoat, it'd be a godsend instead of resorting to the werewolf monstrous 1 head since it gives me the two-color snout). I'd also love to see a spotted cat head, something like a leopard/jaguar, too. You've got the tiger and the lion, take that last step?
everyone now can see them
aaaahhh Asymmetrical Pictures! i CANNOT align them together
This Lion is MAJESTIC! I have two of my lion characters ingame, and I have to say OH MY GOD! Someone Notify Stellario he will more than happy for his Main
As you can see, most of them are still WIP and they don't even have eyes
2. It's also creating more specific mandatory power options. Arc of Ruin is now pretty much required to play a HW toon, and not only that, the specific advantage No Quarter is pretty much required. The Eruption change itself pretty much requires you to take Magma Eruption or you might as well not use the power at all. That's the opposite of choice and build diversity.
3. HW does not have more cross-set synergies now. Melee/Ranged is a terrible hybrid, so there is virtually no fire/hw cross-set synergy. All the incentives encourage you to stick with pure fire or with pure HW powersets. Except its not making Eruption more robust, it's stripping away all the functionality it used to have. All of it. It's not useful in more situations, it's 'useful' (i use the word lightly) in totally different situations, and no longer useful in the way it was before. And that is breaking the Devastator AT completely.
It was an energy battery power and enrage stacker, and it only functions like that with a 3s or less cd. With a 10s cd it can no longer do that job at all.
And we need 'boring' powers to make builds work. I mean, sure, if you want to make HW FFs feel less like HW characters and use uppercut instead, great, but that means one of your mandatory build-enabling powers isn't even in your framework (and looks weird because you drop your ginormous axe just for that?), and the HW AT doesn't even have that option. And with the trend towards 'you want to stay within powerset', we'll see how long that lasts.
Clinging flames is junk damage, btw, and since it doesn't stack, any subsequent application of CF is lost damage.
It's not painful to adjust to, it's impossible to adjust to. There is no replacement power for old Eruption in the Devastator AT or even the HW powerset. And we're not complaining about waiting because its worthwhile, we're complaining about waiting because waiting 10s makes it not worthwhile. It was worthwhile because it made builds work at 3s. Now it doesn't make builds work, and so it is no longer worthwhile with that cd.
I think this is a terrible direction for development. If they want to see less MSA, *make more EUs that aren't framework specific* (start by fixing Overdrive's scaling and buffing it so it feels competitive). People want to play cross-framework characters, and telling them they can't is against the very philosophy of having freeform as an option. Might as well strip Freeform from the game if that's the goal.
But this isn't even about MSA. HW didn't even *need* MSA. Eruption was about energy management in general.
And Devastators (1) don't have annihilate, (2) can't choose skewer and skullcrusher at the same time, (3) vicious descent now trades off with their lunge that actually works on a low cd so they can actually stay in melee range of fleeing opponents. Skewer in particular is totally useless because of the Eruption change, even if they weren't increasing its energy cost *by over 50%*.
(That last is for FFs too - Annihilate totally outclasses it in damage, and Brimstone ouclasses it in AoE - when Skewer costs about as much energy as Annihilate for something like 30-40% less damage against bosses, it's not even a choice, especially when Annihilate will solve its own energy problem).
And regardless, why should we make HW have one of the most convoluted power rotations just to proc enrage stacks? FFs can just grab Uppercut or Rising Knee. It's the AT that will unavoidably suffer for it. (And anyone who is bothered by dropping their weapon to get a useable knock in their power rotation).
The issue with MSA isn't just about framework, it's about something that simply outclasses so many other choices. The time of "must have powers" is coming to an end.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Still unable to select holy-water power, even as my last power.
and no, it's not because that toon wasn't there to unlock it, as I am capable of selecting soul vortex...and the fact that I'm unable to take holy-water as a power makes it kinda hard to...you know...test the colour chaning feature.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Also, 'you get energy when you do this with this set only' is incredibly boring for putting together a diverse build. So much better when they're structured around things other sets can potentially do, even if not as well.
That bull head!
I see male fox, dog, and hyena heads have customizable eyes, as does the bull head.
Though it pains me to not have unlocked some heads. Any pictures of the Kitsune 3-Tail tail?
Snark never dies.