How should PFF work?

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF, as it currently exists, does not work well -- while it provides decent protection against spikes at the start of the combat, if allowed to drop to low health, it's likely to get stuck that way and for the rest of the fight you basically don't have a passive. I'm also not convinced that the way PFF works is really thematic anyway. So, how should PFF work?

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

I'm something of a fan of energy tanking in principle, but hard to see it working.

sagewithbubbles · February 2016

As now, but change regeneration to be faster at low health, instead of slower (this won't prevent it from dropping to nil, but at least it's useful at nil)

Combo of "regen faster at lower health" and "energy tanking".

Add a feature where a portion of the energy you build goes towards either scaling on directly healing the PFF or speeds up the regen scaling on it.

But don't make it directly deplete your energy bar when it's damaged, and don't reduce your usable energy (so the energy built would basically scale 1-1 with either a direct heal to the PFF or an increase in regen rate).

Spit-balling some numbers here, but something like "Every point of energy you generate in combat also heals your PFF for 4/6/8 shield HP" (based on rank of PFF).

I don't have numbers handy for average EPS for the combination of Energy Builder, Energy Unlock and Toggle procs but I know it's at least 20 EPS (base energy builder with no ranks or energy stats).

So bare minimum, standing there and just hitting your energy builder in Hybrid role with no points in Energy Stats, you'd be getting something like 160 PFF (Rank 3) HP per second. That's a bit weaker than the base scaling on most of the healing powers, but it'd scale up with the amount of energy you're building, and it'd be stacking on top of your PFF regen.

Might need to be stronger (or weaker, I have a feeling it could get ridiculous in an energy-dedicated build...), but I'm aiming for a starting point.

Makes it more functional than it is now without breaking builds that currently use it. And gives an incentive to stat energy stats if you really want to specialize for it.

Somewhat thematic, too. Force Fields are typically portrayed as pretty taxing on the upkeeper's resources, so the more efficient they are at managing their stamina, the stronger/longer they can keep up the shielding.

bluhman · February 2016

As now, but change regeneration to be faster at low health, instead of slower (this won't prevent it from dropping to nil, but at least it's useful at nil)

There's another feature I'd like to throw into the mix, potentially as a suggestion/brainstorming:

Damage from the hit that depletes the shield does NOT bleed over into health.
This gives PFF a very niche and thematically appropriate function of being able to stop one extremely strong attack if they have shield health left.

sterga · February 2016

Why not a new tree for PFF and/or better power / mod / gear support? We have a tree just for pet masters, why not one for energy shield? Hell, it could be made to work with bubbles too. Tagging / mechanics tweaks needed.

Tree ideas:

Energy Shield restored by x% of your damage on hit.
Energy Shields also give x% all damage resistance.
Bubble Aura: You and your team regen x energy shield per 3s.
x% chance on hit to boost energy shield regen for 10s.
Restore 1/2% of your defense/offense as energy shield when hit. (2s ICD)

Mods ideas:

x increased energy shield regen (like the HP regen mods)
Heals no longer work on your life, applying to energy shield instead.
Your crits no longer do extra damage, but restore energy shield for the additional damage.

Gear ideas:

553 Energy Shield
5% more max energy shield
10% more energy shield regen
4 mod slots

Ultimate:

Double energy shield regen for 15s.

aesica · February 2016

None of the above, really. How about:

1) Borrowing a page from the Cryptic game I mainly play, STO, the shield should actually outright negate a percentage of the damage it absorbs. The actual amount it negates is open to debate, but assuming something like 20%, a 1000 damage hit, assuming the shield could absorb the full amount, would negate 200 of that damage and absorb the rest. This could in a sense emulate the damage reduction other defensive passives offer.

2) There should be no "shield regeneration decreases while taking damage" or whatever it is. Tanks are supposed to take damage, so that's just silly.

3) There should also be no "shield regenerates faster while blocking." This encourages turtle tanking, which is also silly--especially since the tank runs the risk of losing aggro during this time.

4) Also borrowing a page from Regen's playbook, faster shield depletion should trigger faster shield recovery. Think of it as redirecting a large amount of incoming energy.

5) New 1-point advantage--Kinetic Shockwave: When fully depleted, your personal forcefield deals force damage to all enemies within 10 yards of you, disorients them, and knocks them away. This effect can only be triggered once every 10-15 seconds. This offers (optional) breathing room vs trash mobs so the player can recover once the shield gets fully depleted.

bluhman said:
There's another feature I'd like to throw into the mix, potentially as a suggestion/brainstorming:

Damage from the hit that depletes the shield does NOT bleed over into health.
This gives PFF a very niche and thematically appropriate function of being able to stop one extremely strong attack if they have shield health left.

Unfortunately, that would be OP if you think about it. Many of the 1-shot mechanics the newest bosses have could be almost completely trivialized by something like that.

"Did you just try to hit me for 100,000 damage? Ha, too bad! The 50 hp left on my shield just negated the whole thing!"

cyrone · February 2016

What's sparked the sudden interest in this passive now? I'd pretty much given up on the fight to make it better a few years ago and had just accepted it for what it is. A broken piece of garbage.

Too long have I suggested that Protection Field restore PFF shield strength and apply a Bionic Shielding style debuff so it's not spammed.

Too long have I talked about the removal (or tweaking) of the shield regen reduction as the shield takes damage.

Discussed too long the addition of some type of resistance/dodge to the shield to help players out.

I'm, personally, tired of seeing this power utterly ignored. The absolute best thing that happened to this power was the inclusion of Shield HP on the HP/Energy UI.

Anyways, I've already hung up my mantle for trying to push to better this power. Good luck to you guys, I really like some of the suggestions I've seen here.

legendarylycan · February 2016

the 'sudden interest' presumably comes from the fact that the game has, for the first time in years, actual development by an actual team currently going on outside a lockbox every 4 months, as evidenced by all the recent changes to vast amounts of powers

so now is the best time to start asking again

aiqa · February 2016

Heal powers work on PFF health

In my opinion the problem with PFF is largely that you can not be well supported by other players. I've seen a lot of tanks that can't tank Frosticus without needing significant healing support, and only very few that need little to none support. But for PFF the strongest of the support options (healing other players) just doesn't work well.

So while PFF needs to be on par with other passives when playing solo, it also needs to have the same range of supporting options that builds with other powers get. The best option for that would be to have heals from other players affect the shield, even if that was only for 50% of the normal heal strength it would make PFF much easier to team up with for higher end content.

commandocub · February 2016

As now, but change field surge so it can be used more often (likely at a cost in energy or time).

shadowfang240 said:
the 'sudden interest' presumably comes from the fact that the game has, for the first time in years, actual development by an actual team currently going on outside a lockbox every 4 months, as evidenced by all the recent changes to vast amounts of powers

so now is the best time to start asking again

This. I'd love to see PFF tanks as viable as any other variation. Other tanks benefit directly from passives people take, like Sentinel's Aura. Well...let those HoT buffs restore PFF's shield, for a start.

vonqball · February 2016

Bubble powers (protection field, mindful reinforcement) give some percentage of their health to PFF.

cyrone said:
What's sparked the sudden interest in this passive now? I'd pretty much given up on the fight to make it better a few years ago and had just accepted it for what it is. A broken piece of garbage.

Well, some other longstanding bugs and under-performing powers have actually gotten looked at and tweaked... and we have actually gotten some new powers. I think there is a renewed sense of hope, and a feeling that someone might actually be listening (if you are I want cybernetic centaur legs). XD

I like a bunch of the options given. Went with bubbles heal PFF, but I like the idea of tying PFF to energy.

A toggle form is also a neat idea, it would be nice to have some more varied toggles out there. A "selfish" tanking toggle would be interesting.

commandocub · February 2016

As now, but change field surge so it can be used more often (likely at a cost in energy or time).

vonqball said:

cyrone said:
What's sparked the sudden interest in this passive now? I'd pretty much given up on the fight to make it better a few years ago and had just accepted it for what it is. A broken piece of garbage.
Well, some other longstanding bugs and under-performing powers have actually gotten looked at and tweaked... and we have actually gotten some new powers. I think there is a renewed sense of hope, and a feeling that someone might actually be listening (if you are I want cybernetic centaur legs). XD

I like a bunch of the options given. Went with bubbles heal PFF, but I like the idea of tying PFF to energy.

A toggle form is also a neat idea, it would be nice to have some more varied toggles out there. A "selfish" tanking toggle would be interesting.

Some overpowering powers are getting looked at, and I think PFF has been raised as an example of a specific power which just isn't doing what it should.

aiqa · February 2016

Heal powers work on PFF health

gradii said:

aiqa said:
In my opinion the problem with PFF is largely that you can not be well supported by other players. I've seen a lot of tanks that can't tank Frosticus without needing significant healing support, and only very few that need little to none support. But for PFF the strongest of the support options (healing other players) just doesn't work well.

So while PFF needs to be on par with other passives when playing solo, it also needs to have the same range of supporting options that builds with other powers get. The best option for that would be to have heals from other players affect the shield, even if that was only for 50% of the normal heal strength it would make PFF much easier to team up with for higher end content.
Not requiring heals is what makes PFF unique. I would be a lot less interested in ever using it if It interacted with healing.

And it would not be fair to have a PFF tank buffed up to the level of a tank using another passive that does get heals from a dedicated healer. So what you are basically saying is that for group content you want PFF tanks to be weaker than tanks using other passives.

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

aiqa said:

And it would not be fair to have a PFF tank buffed up to the level of a tank using another passive that does get heals from a dedicated healer. So what you are basically saying is that for group content you want PFF tanks to be weaker than tanks using other passives.

To be fair, the option Gradii chose (shield regen faster at low health) can reasonably be about as useful as regen in group combat.

aiqa · February 2016

Heal powers work on PFF health

pantagruel01 said:

aiqa said:

And it would not be fair to have a PFF tank buffed up to the level of a tank using another passive that does get heals from a dedicated healer. So what you are basically saying is that for group content you want PFF tanks to be weaker than tanks using other passives.
To be fair, the option Gradii chose (shield regen faster at low health) can reasonably be about as useful as regen in group combat.

I don't think it is. I run TA regularly with Silverspar on my healer, and while she is low maintenance, being able to throw a heal her way to top of her health is very usefull.

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

aiqa said:
I don't think it is. I run TA regularly with Silverspar, and while she is low maintenance, being able to throw a heal her way to top of her health is very usefull.

Thing is, 'shield regen faster at low health' can mean that a zeroed out shield is about as fast as regen. In which case, "heal 1,200 hp/3s" and "gain a 1,200 hp shield/3s" are about equally helpful to the healer.

flowcyto · February 2016

Maybe what they could do is have external sources of healing affect the shield, but in an increasing relationship as the shield depletes (so heal spamming a PFF tank at/near full shield doesn't do much and doesn't make them have a crazy shield built up- as the other passives don't gain any benefit from over-healing either). This could go for the PFF user themselves- not unlike using a self-heal to assist any other defensive passive when at low-health.

legendarylycan · February 2016

only as long as the heal would realistically be able to repair a shield...something designed to knit flesh and mend bone shouldn't be able to patch up a concentrated field of energy

flowcyto · February 2016

Eh, here ya can use super hero logic to allow practically anything as justification. The PFF also has built-in tech the transfers the 'life essence' of a heal to an engine that bolsters the shield instead.
I mean, its not like in CO when ya cast a normal heal power that ur literally bandaging flesh and cauterizing wounds and such. So I dun think aethsetics should get in the way of balance here.

aiqa · February 2016

Heal powers work on PFF health

pantagruel01 said:

aiqa said:
I don't think it is. I run TA regularly with Silverspar, and while she is low maintenance, being able to throw a heal her way to top of her health is very usefull.
Thing is, 'shield regen faster at low health' can mean that a zeroed out shield is about as fast as regen. In which case, "heal 1,200 hp/3s" and "gain a 1,200 hp shield/3s" are about equally helpful to the healer.

That is true, I was thinking of the PFF shield to much as the main protection that you don't want to see drop to 0. A PFF tank stack con just as much as any other tank to eat the spike attacks while their shield is gone.

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

aiqa said:
That is true, I was thinking of the PFF shield to much as the main protection that you don't want to see drop to 0. A PFF tank stack con just as much as any other tank to eat the spike attacks while their shield is gone.

It's not an option I especially like (nor is it what I voted for), as one of the interesting features of PFF is that it allows you to not stack Con, but it's possible enough to balance.

jaazaniah1 · February 2016

Bubble powers (protection field, mindful reinforcement) give some percentage of their health to PFF.

And yet we can heal engines and vent scoops in SC (though we can't rez them

). We can also heal heroes who are androids, robots or living statues.

shadowfang240 wrote: »

only as long as the heal would realistically be able to repair a shield...something designed to knit flesh and mend bone shouldn't be able to patch up a concentrated field of energy

theravenforce · February 2016

Oh dear lord, one of these threads, after almost three years directly after this similarly was discussed...

sagewithbubbles · February 2016

As now, but change regeneration to be faster at low health, instead of slower (this won't prevent it from dropping to nil, but at least it's useful at nil)

theravenforce said:
Oh dear lord, one of these threads, after almost three years directly after this similarly was discussed...

Getting real dev attention and resources on power balancing/fixing/power additions (for the first time in years) makes people hopeful.

deadman20 · February 2016

As now, but change regeneration to be faster at low health, instead of slower (this won't prevent it from dropping to nil, but at least it's useful at nil)

cyrone wrote: »

Anyways, I've already hung up my mantle for trying to push to better this power. Good luck to you guys, I really like some of the suggestions I've seen here.

Maybe it's time to take it to the dry cleaners and start wearing it again? The opportunity has arisen, so let's not miss it.

Personally, I don't know what to do with PFF, aside from fix its self-sustainability/regen. Maybe add a power attached to PFF which can be maintained, consuming energy and healing the PFF. Or have Containment Field, upon Detonation, recharge a portion of the PFF. Field Surge feels like it needs some love too, maybe have it grant a Flat Absorb rate (IDF/Invuln?) for the duration. I dunno, these are all just suggestions.

legendarylycan · February 2016

or just make it so energy builders return a portion of the built energy to the depleted shield (assuming you actually HAVE PFF slotted, otherwise the EB acts as normal) at the cost of gaining said portion less in energy

magpieuk2014 · February 2016

Excess energy rebuilds the shield? By which I mean... the energy bar can only be filled up the level of the player's Equilibrium. Once that is full, any energy generating activities (Energy Builder attacks, passives, etc) whose effects wouldn't be displayed in the energy bar (because it's full) would rebuild the shield at a proportionate rate.

magpieuk2014 · February 2016

The extension of that would be the power to harness the "excess" energy of others within a limited range and turn it into both a PFF and, potentially, an AoE FF, Invisible Woman style. No idea whether that is possible (it sounds nightmarish, to be honest) but that is a support toon I would like to see in-game....

magpieuk2014 · February 2016

And yes, that probably would allow you to create an extremely strong FF if someone was dumb enough to keep attacking you. Blame Isaac Newton for that one. So PFF would need a base equilibrium of its own and it would have an energy cost over time when in-combat, meaning that that the player would need to decide on how to manage energy's role (defensive, block and EB to maintain the shield, or offensive, i.e to cause damage).

legendarylycan · February 2016

the extension sounds like a good idea on paper...at the very least, it would make those otherwise useless onslaught gloves that grant energy to others a little more useful if the team has a PFF user

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

gradii said:
That would all but rule out PFF Force Cascade builds. No thanks, making the Passive in the set not even work with its own set is not a attractive idea.

My incidental preference is for FC to consume force fields for energy instead of consuming energy forms.

magpieuk2014 · February 2016

FC is an incredibly strong attack, gradii. You should have to give something up for a power of that magnitude.

theravenforce · February 2016

Either way, I'll bite.

I'm surprised the actual answer to what PFF needs is not up there/an option. Players who have used this power quite a bit, generally have the best knowledge of the passive and how it needs to be fixed.

Here are a few examples:

- Fix the shield regeneration to be a constant value both in and out of combat. This should preferably be a percentage value rather than a number. (Say 10% of max PFF per period)
- Grant the shield layer a scaling damage resistance value that either starts at around 20%/30%/40% (rank 1/2/3 respectively) and doubles temporarily once PFF hits 50%. Once you regain PFF up to 70% of max PFF, the resistance resets back to normal. (Alternatively this resistance boost could be tied to blocking).
- Adjust the base shield value of PFF to be higher, preferably double what we have now. (This would require the removal of Compassion boosting from PFF, which I honestly am all for, since all it does is boost max shield HP, which isn't that useful if it doesnt interact with shield regeneration value. If anything it just makes it work harder.)

These ones (above) are pretty much basic requirements to making PFF better in my opinion as a player who has used PFF for a long while now.

The next couple suggestions would be there IF the above was not enough to sustain PFF:

- The shield regeneration rate per 3 seconds should be changed to "XX% shield regenerated per 1.5 seconds".
- Remove Field Surge from being an active defensive. Turn it into a combo power that comes with PFF and has a similar cooldown to that of Shadow Strike (From Night Warrior Passive). Field Surge ranks up as you rank up PFF.

--

Allowing healing powers to affect PFF, is just asking for trouble and also gives a cheap and easy solution not to fix PFF or allow it to stay within theme. I don't feel I need to go into this, but not only is it quite out of theme but diminishes the uniqueness and may actually require a nerfing of PFF if people combined Compassion + PFF + PRE + healing.

I had this discussion years back on forums when forum users in the main were severely against PFF's shield regeneration per 3 seconds being fixed to where it is now (scaling was godawful and got worse in combat).

--

Speaking from the perspective of someone who has always tried to push PFF's value upwards without using specs or Compassion Form, the regeneration rate scaling is pitiful.

Around 800 shield regen per 3 seconds at 9.1k PFF? LOL no thanks.

Mobs now can easily put out more than "around 800" points of damage within a three second window and that "around 800" is a higher end value of PFF, at lower levels of max shield it's just worse.

IIRC, you need around 2.2k's worth of stat to reach 10.7k PFF and the regeneration value for that is still within the 800 range.

The idea that energy should in any way play into PFF's effectiveness or function is pretty much a very bad idea.

Why?

We have access to stats like REC and END. We also have abilities which grant us energy in combat and sometimes sustained energy as long as we stay in one place (CoAP anyone?), so they would either require massive nerfing or adjusting to make such an idea work.

Also ideas that things like Force Cascade should consume PFF/PF/MR etc is also incredibly backward. The energy cost of it alone is enough of a penalty.

If I have enough energy to fire off Force Cascade that should be enough of a penalty, I do not require my passive to be bitten into as well.

I actually don't like the idea of Energy Forms being consumed by FC either (I can definitely see why they are though) but that's for another discussion. (Ideally, using FC with an energy form would place a debuff on you which reduces all outgoing damage by a real 50% for X amount of seconds, rather than stripping a passive.)

legendarylycan · February 2016

how the hell do you even get a PFF that high? mine only tops out around 6.5K and i haven't been able to find any way of scaling it other than rank

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

theravenforce said:
Either way, I'll bite.

I'm surprised the actual answer to what PFF needs is not up there/an option.

Well, I left out "tweak the numbers". In general I was asking less "what tweaks to numbers would make PFF adequate/good" and more "what style of tweaks would produce the best game play".

theravenforce said:
Fix the shield regeneration to be a constant value both in and out of combat. This should preferably be a percentage value rather than a number. (Say 10% of max PFF per period)

This is generally going to mean that PFF is overpowered in basic content and underpowered in high end stuff -- if PFF provides more spike resistance than regen, it needs to have a lower sustained dps it can handle, and regen already has a scaling problem.

theravenforce said:
Remove Field Surge from being an active defensive. Turn it into a combo power that comes with PFF and has a similar cooldown to that of Shadow Strike (From Night Warrior Passive). Field Surge ranks up as you rank up PFF.

I'll call this a vote for "As now, but change field surge so it can be used more often (likely at a cost in energy or time)."

theravenforce · February 2016

shadowfang240 said:
how the hell do you even get a PFF that high?

I worship The Sun God.

shadowfang240 said:
mine only tops out around 6.5K and i haven't been able to find any way of scaling it other than rank

6.5k? Wow. Not being funny but I don't even think as an Impulse AT I had that value. My top value on Impulse AT was...7.8k.

PFF scaling works on the principle of all other passives, super stat investment.

Currently I use Legion/Justice with 7s and one rank 8 mod. I use Purple Rank Secondaries though (like the ones mobs drop or now, from the SCR vendor).

I don't make use of specializations to boost PFF's max shielding as that isn't worth it but you can easily hit 10k with those.

I'm sure if I made more investment and purchased/crafted rank 8/9's I could get a higher result, but I'll wait until PFF is better to make more of an investment.

pantagruel01 · February 2016

PFF as a toggle form instead of a passive -- drops when it hits zero and needs to be toggled on, full charge gives full health

shadowfang240 said:
how the hell do you even get a PFF that high?

It scales off of healing and shielding strength -- effects that make a protection field stronger also apply to PFF.

deadman20 · February 2016

As now, but change regeneration to be faster at low health, instead of slower (this won't prevent it from dropping to nil, but at least it's useful at nil)

Hmm, actually...

Personal Force Field
+A persistent shielding effect that recovers quickly during combat (Ticking every 2 seconds).
+The Personal Force Field cannot lose more than [Insert Given Amount}% of its Max Shielding in one instance of Damage.
+Should the Shield break, it will stop trying to recover. After 5 seconds, Personal Force Field will begin regenerating 50% of its Max Shielding over 3 seconds on top of restarting its normal regeneration rating. Using Field Surge will start this effect immediately.

theravenforce · February 2016

pantagruel01 said:
Well, I left out "tweak the numbers". In general I was asking less "what tweaks to numbers would make PFF adequate/good" and more "what style of tweaks would produce the best game play".

Style of tweaks? Buff.

Description? At the very least: - Grant the shield layer a scaling damage resistance value that either starts at around 20%/30%/40% (rank 1/2/3 respectively) and doubles temporarily once PFF hits 50%. Once you regain PFF up to 70% of max PFF, the resistance resets back to normal. (Alternatively this resistance boost could be tied to blocking).

pantagruel01 said:
This is generally going to mean that PFF is overpowered in basic content and underpowered in high end stuff -- if PFF provides more spike resistance than regen, it needs to have a lower sustained dps it can handle, and regen already has a scaling problem.

Please clarify what kinds of builds are not overpowered in basic content? Even my Basic White Girl build can #roflstomp #basiccontent.

PFF has the unique situation of not being like any other passive in game, so comparing it to something like Regeneration which leaves HP unprotected is not really the best way to deal with it.

The closest thing you can compare PFF to is a very poor bubble spam build. Poor in the sense of how many times someone applies bubbles to you, if you get what I mean. Sure it's a rather large bubble with makes attempts to stick around but the scaling behind it is horribad.

If PFF regenerated at a 10% of max PFF per 1.5 seconds and this percentage shield regeneration was DOUBLED by blocking, it would be likely on par or rather "competitive" with the rate at which Invuln/LR/Defiance/Regen builds can self sustain.

Yes this is to do with healing, but slapping healing as a "fix all ills" (ironically) to PFF is so wildly out of theme and can cause so many potential issues, it'd do more harm than good.

Much like Crowd Control, some do not want to support or do not like the idea of something new, like a fixed and competitive PFF, challenging their builds in terms of survival and general ability.

If the aim is REALLY to increase build diversity, then PFF will receive a good selection of the adjustments I've stated in my previous posts. I'm not saying my suggestions for PFF are perfect, as with everything it will require testing, but I honestly think it would be an excellent place to start.

pantagruel01 said:
I'll call this a vote for "As now, but change field surge so it can be used more often (likely at a cost in energy or time)."

Okay.

theravenforce · February 2016

pantagruel01 said:

shadowfang240 said:
how the hell do you even get a PFF that high?
It scales off of healing and shielding strength -- effects that make a protection field stronger also apply to PFF.

Um.

Not quite.

PFF is not directly (or indirectly) affected by bonus healing or heal strength. It is solely dependent on RANK and Super Stat investment.

Specializations which boost shielding values also do apply to PFF but at a halved value (I assume this is what Pantagruel meant).

Compassion (which I do not use), will boost PFF at a halved rate of what the form says it will boost "shields" by. However the boost from Compassion applies at full strength to other shields such as:

Mindful Reinforcement (MR)
Protection Field (PF)

It may also apply to:

Energy Refraction (ER)
Hardened Particle Matrix (HPM) <-- Pretty sure it doesn't for this one but I haven't tested.

theravenforce · February 2016

deadman20 said:
Hmm, actually...

Personal Force Field

+A persistent shielding effect that recovers quickly during combat (Ticking every 2 seconds).

+The Personal Force Field cannot lose more than [Insert Given Amount}% of its Max Shielding in one instance of Damage.

+Should the Shield break, it will stop trying to recover. After 5 seconds, Personal Force Field will begin regenerating 50% of its Max Shielding over 3 seconds on top of restarting its normal regeneration rating. Using Field Surge will start this effect immediately.

Whilst you've got the right idea with the "recovering quickly during combat (ticking every 2 seconds", the next point would be incredibly problematic.

An instance of damage can literally be anything from a Purple Gang member punch to Gravitar's Yellow Bubble attack in her rampage.

It would make PFF the go to passive and obviously it would need to be nerfed or adjusted.

The third point...I almost stopped reading when I got to the bit where it says: "it will stop trying to recover".

The whole idea behind making PFF work better/perform better is to make it somewhat self-sufficient and able to provide itself as an alternative to those who don't want to use HP + Passive to mitigate damage, but instead want to use Passive + Layered Resistances without the need for excessive or high CON or reliance on healing as much.

To be fair to your suggestion though, blocking for any amount of time exceeding three seconds, despite the fact that I love blocking is not really that engaging or "dynamic".

It's no fun blocking for 5 seconds unless I was to see an immediate reward, so changing it from "After 5 seconds, Personal Force Field will begin regenerating 50% of its Max Shielding over 3 seconds on top of restarting its normal regeneration rating."

I'd adjust it to:

"After 5 seconds, Personal Force Field will instantly regenerate 50% of its Max Shielding on top of restarting its normal regeneration rating."

Hell, the shield regeneration rate should not be affected negatively by entering combat or taking damage, as standard.

aesica · February 2016

theravenforce said:
- The shield regeneration rate per 3 seconds should be changed to "XX% shield regenerated per 1.5 seconds".

I'd actually argue that it should be even faster--1 second intervals at the very least. Both PFF (a power I admit I've used in a very limited capacity, since I immediately dismissed it as horrible at the time) and Regeneration suffer from slow recovery rates. I know with Regeneration, that 3 second wait between ticks can feel like an eternity in desperate situations. When something recharges, it doesn't happen in 3 second bursts, just like when you cut Wolverine, he doesn't heal in 3 second bursts.

By making the recovery ticks for both of these powers happen more frequently, incoming damage gets smoothed out better. It also makes the powers feel more fluid, if that makes sense.

theravenforce · February 2016

aesica said:

I'd actually argue that it should be even faster--1 second intervals at the very least. Both PFF (a power I admit I've used in a very limited capacity, since I immediately dismissed it as horrible at the time) and Regeneration suffer from slow recovery rates. I know with Regeneration, that 3 second wait between ticks can feel like an eternity in desperate situations. When something recharges, it doesn't happen in 3 second bursts, just like when you cut Wolverine, he doesn't heal in 3 second bursts.

By making the recovery ticks for both of these powers happen more frequently, incoming damage gets smoothed out better. It also makes the powers feel more fluid, if that makes sense.

Well I'd say 1.5 seconds would be the limit for reduction in waiting periods.

I say that because currently 3 seconds for both passives (as you've stated) is not enough, but we also have access to external means of assisting PFF/Regeneration.

Also, especially in PFF's case, blocking doubles the value of shield regeneration per 3 seconds.

I get what you mean, completely, but with the aim of trying to be reasonable and consider various different builds and things which could help, 1 second intervals or less would be a bit much.

However, I would definitely be open to PFF having some sort of innate mechanic which triggers based on % remaining PFF. For example, something I've suggested before, a button of sorts for PFF:

Personal Force Field Update - This power now comes with a new power called "Force Burst". Force Burst ranks up as you rank up PFF. Force Burst grants the user 50% of their maximum Personal Force Field value instantly and doubles the current regeneration rate of PFF for 20 seconds, but can only be activated at less than or equal to 40% maximum PFF. This ability has a 40 second fixed cooldown.

crypticarkayne · February 2016

Hrm... interesting.

legendarylycan · February 2016

see, @cyrone ? now was the perfect time to start up about PFF again - a dev posted!

aesica · February 2016

theravenforce said:
Well I'd say 1.5 seconds would be the limit for reduction in waiting periods.

I say that because currently 3 seconds for both passives (as you've stated) is not enough, but we also have access to external means of assisting PFF/Regeneration.

Also, especially in PFF's case, blocking doubles the value of shield regeneration per 3 seconds.

I get what you mean, completely, but with the aim of trying to be reasonable and consider various different builds and things which could help, 1 second intervals or less would be a bit much.

However, I would definitely be open to PFF having some sort of innate mechanic which triggers based on % remaining PFF. For example, something I've suggested before, a button of sorts for PFF:

Personal Force Field Update - This power now comes with a new power called "Force Burst". Force Burst ranks up as you rank up PFF. Force Burst grants the user 50% of their maximum Personal Force Field value instantly and doubles the current regeneration rate of PFF for 20 seconds, but can only be activated at less than 40% maximum PFF. This ability has a 40 second fixed cooldown.

You're not concerned that "micro-blocking" (I assume having block active when the tick happens is what boosts its gain, but I don't really know since again, my experience with PFF is very limited) makes the mechanics too cheesy?

I'm personally not a fan of block applying any sort of bonus (or penalty) to defensive passives. It either encourages the player to block unnecessarily or punishes the player for trying to make use of block when they're supposed to. (Thankfully, I'm almost 100% certain that regen's supposed "block penalty" is a myth at this point).

I like your suggestion though, however having a power come with a bonus power seems kind of...weird. Still, it could easily be added in a way comparable to Resurgence--an active defense ability that, under normal circumstances, gives the user a large shield right away. For PFF users, it could also do something like greatly increase PFF's per-tick recovery for a period of time.

How should PFF work?

How should PFF work? 25 votes

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