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Teleios Ascendant Epic Lair Discussion

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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    Question: Has anyone tried running this lair with a team of full AT's?
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,245 Arc User
    I would like to, but it doesn't seem to be possible to get the teams together. I would also like to test the CC/Skarn's Bane changes on some standard Ao'Q Alerts (Bursts, esp) on PTS, but (again) that doesn't seem to be practical. Happy to work on it, though, if anyone's around.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    I would like to, but it doesn't seem to be possible to get the teams together. I would also like to test the CC/Skarn's Bane changes on some standard Ao'Q Alerts (Bursts, esp) on PTS, but (again) that doesn't seem to be practical. Happy to work on it, though, if anyone's around.

    Well, based on having used the power on basic targets. I think it is safe to say that Skarn's Bane will no longer be used for much outside of the novelty of having a targeted cone version of Planar Fracture with better DPS.

    Since it can no longer remove Ao'Q's passive.

    As for ATs, all my issue would be is how to gear them i.e. do we test with Heroic/5s or Legion/7s etc.

    Also, ideal combination may be:

    Mind + Grimore + Radiant + Tempest + Behemoth
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,245 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Heroic r5 primary, Armadillo secondaries would be my gear of choice for a test.

    Skarn's may not be a complete wash-out; my Grimoire AT can hit over 1100 per tick on a full maintain at present (she does have Justice Gear, though) and adding a debuff/additional damage to that (with what looks like a chance to double up on crits, with the Int/Expose specialisation), may make it a reasonable power. Haven't observed the effect of the energy form removal too closely, though... would need to run it through some UNITY content/supervillain fights to see what difference it made - having a Bloodmoon boss or two would be handy, as she went through those like a hot knife through butter.....
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    Question: Has anyone tried running this lair with a team of full AT's?

    We were going to, but we are waiting until Gravitar and perhaps the other bosses get tweaked. As it is, you have to basically be the tankest of all tanks and take about an hour fighting Gravitar if you want to not die.

    And no, that is not ammo for anyone who says, "See! It is only for X builds who grind for the top gear!" I mean to say that you need to actually forgo any DPS so you can survive the fight. That is why the only group who did it took almost an hour just on Gravitar alone. That is not a "viable" build as even the most "elite" of players will not run a team full of turtles. She is going to get patched up soon and we'll run a team of ATs after that.
    gradii said:

    Theres a major issue with the lair queue where having an incomplete team inside the lair prevents others from starting.


    Can you elaborate? Were you teamed with anyone? How do you know there was already a group running it or that they had less than 5 people? If there is room on a team and you are queued, you will be put with that team in the middle of their run. I assume if you have a team of 2 or 3 people queued, you aren't going to get in if the other team only has 1 spot available. You'd have to wait for others to finish filling up the PUG.

    iamrune said:

    No offense, but nobody cares.

    And yet you commented on it :p

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,911 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    xrazamax said:

    Can you elaborate? Were you teamed with anyone?

    Team of 5, the lair had 1 inside it. The queue should have known that it is impossible to add 5 people to a pre-existing session and just started a new one.
  • ngeluzngeluz Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Why do I get the feeling someone on the Crytic Team has a thing or obvious preference for this Gravitar villainess, even when she first came out she seem so overpowered and not in a cool villain way… each incarnation of her seems to get worst… I’m beginning to think she can take on both of the Destroyer’s, Therakial, Gron, The kings of Edom and basically every Super Villain in Champion Universe without even breaking a nail… it’s just ridiculous Lore wise and otherwise… If it wasn’t for our veteran build masters or dedicated max gear players Champions we the casuals or RPG players, would find ourselves in a dead end wall… with this type of content…of the game... :(
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    ngeluz said:

    Why do I get the feeling someone on the Crytic Team has a thing or obvious preference for this Gravitar villainess, even when she first came out she seem so overpowered and not in a cool villain way… each incarnation of her seems to get worst… I’m beginning to think she can take on both of the Destroyer’s, Therakial, Gron, The kings of Edom and basically every Super Villain in Champion Universe without even breaking a nail… it’s just ridiculous Lore wise and otherwise… If it wasn’t for our veteran build masters or dedicated max gear players Champions we the casuals or RPG players, would find ourselves in a dead end wall… with this type of content…of the game... :(

    Gravitar is one of the most powerful villains in CO lore. She has defeated super hero groups and has fought Destroyer and Mechanon single handedly to a draw on multiple occasions along with openly despising and taunting both of them. She is also incredibly gifted with technology and is actually highly intelligent. If she had higher ambitions than satisfying her own ego, she would be as threatening to the world as Destroyer.

    Even though she was one of the playable villains along with Medusa and Grond, it can be argued that in terms of sheer capability she far surpasses them and belongs in the tier of Mechanon and Destroyer in terms of potential threat level.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User

    Question: Has anyone tried running this lair with a team of full AT's?

    We'll do it after the bosses get updated. No point now as not even freeforms can really clear the dungeon unless they are going full turtle and trading any damage for survivability (which is why Spar's group took 40 minutes just on Gravi :p ) .
  • crashjrivecrashjrive Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited January 2016




    Grond has only 700k health he's fairly easy to beat as is. Hatchling has 2.3 mill about that I think, and Medusa also has 700k. Gravitar has 7 mill.

    And calm down, crikey this is what test is for. Iron out and find the issues, and tune the encounters appropriately. This is intended for people that are either geared and/or built well, it's not meant as just any average joe can stroll in without some coordination.​​

    First of all I wasn't even feeling hyped. Secondly, I'm saying that Grond should have more HP than them, I thought it was implied... Nowhere did I mention that this should be completely toned down in ANY of my comments that would make it as just any average joe can stroll without some coordination.:)
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    WITH Coordination. IT should make you think and work together to succeed.

    Good, someone is planning to check with AT's and Heroic gear.

    Could all those people who have tried it so far, please add on to their post;

    FF or AT
    Gear-type
    Rank of Mods
    Premade or PUG
    rough count of Tank, dps, support, heals, hybrid
    I hate being back at work, when there's something new on PTS. oh well weekend I can look again.​​
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  • sammiefightersammiefighter Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    chaelk said:


    Could all those people who have tried it so far, please add on to their post; ..........


    Yeh, kinda wondering the same thing but can nearly guess T7-T9 mods with full justice, probably rampage and semi Premade group of semi-top-end FF

    Be cool if the devs could drop by with some testing guidelines (a lesson not learned from old testing). Or if the so called "top players" would be man/woman enough to go in T5 or heroic. Thats-a-right .. im-a callin you out! [Cause i'm like busy, and you can be my test slaves? Oh also .. buck buck buck]

    Possibly still need Epic/Normal mode, AT's and casuals can have fun on normal.


  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    gradii said:

    chaelk said:


    Could all those people who have tried it so far, please add on to their post; ..........


    Yeh, kinda wondering the same thing but can nearly guess T7-T9 mods with full justice, probably rampage and semi Premade group of semi-top-end FF

    Be cool if the devs could drop by with some testing guidelines (a lesson not learned from old testing). Or if the so called "top players" would be man/woman enough to go in T5 or heroic. Thats-a-right .. im-a callin you out! [Cause i'm like busy, and you can be my test slaves? Oh also .. buck buck buck]

    Possibly still need Epic/Normal mode, AT's and casuals can have fun on normal.


    We shouldn't need a seperate easier mode for ATs. ATs are not really so inferior to freeforms as theyre often made out to be (usually by people who haven't taken the time to optimize an AT).

    The MAIN issue here is faced by BOTH ATs and Non CON stacking freeforms. HP disparity and the new trend of designing content with overwhelming overpowered damage spikes.
    ^
    Agreed, creating modes to further separate the community is not a good idea, also, having to grab CON limits build diversity on toons that want a different approach to survival than just, "Imma big sack of HPz". As far as damage spikes, they can be okay if their spaced evenly apart, and have a mechanic that can help players either avoid or negate the spike aspect of it(I'm sure this lair's got a few mechanics that do that :) ).
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,102 Arc User
    I'm curious what other Epic stuff is in the works? The Telios missionsis mostly using existing resources repackaged (Telios Towers, most of the villains) with some new mechanics in places. Are future Epic missions going to basically reskin old lairs, or will there be things that are really completely new? In the past we've been told there would be no expansions to Nemesis content, but maybe there could be some epic content using hero Nemeses that are suitably buffed?​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User


    Wow disagrees with you. You can still have fun with the rest of the game and this actually inspires build diversity, something that hasn't been happening.​​

    WoW is a static class game that has nothing to do with creativity or diversity.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    spinnytop said:


    Wow disagrees with you. You can still have fun with the rest of the game and this actually inspires build diversity, something that hasn't been happening.​​

    WoW is a static class game that has nothing to do with creativity or diversity.
    ^
    Thank You.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    Aw, hey they never said there were shutting down the PTS servers too :p
    We didn't even get a warning!

    INB4 Everyone says the update isn't ready yet. The 6 hour shut down if for server upgrades and latency issues.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Suggestion:
    Make the bossfights minions more interesting, but stop them from being a constant nuisance.

    Add a 30 (?) seconds cooldown on spawning new minnions when the others die.

    Minion abilities:
    Medusa: Amplify Medusa's mental abilities, giving her higher damage, strong stuns, etc.
    Gravitar: Minions have crowd control like roots and stuns. Have a -5% crushing damage resistance debuff on some attacks
    Grond: Poison aura that does a small damage over time, and has a stacking snare. And nttg rock throws.
    Teleiosaurus: A stacking HoT (for Teleiosaurus), and fixate on one random target.
    Teleios: Not sure about this one. Maybe just keep not having a cooldown on minion spawn.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    Suggestion:
    Make the bossfights minions more interesting, but stop them from being a constant nuisance.

    Add a 30 (?) seconds cooldown on spawning new minnions when the others die.

    Minion abilities:
    Medusa: Amplify Medusa's mental abilities, giving her higher damage, strong stuns, etc.
    Gravitar: Minions have crowd control like roots and stuns. Have a -5% crushing damage resistance debuff on some attacks
    Grond: Poison aura that does a small damage over time, and has a stacking snare. And nttg rock throws.
    Teleiosaurus: A stacking HoT (for Teleiosaurus), and fixate on one random target.
    Teleios: Not sure about this one. Maybe just keep not having a cooldown on minion spawn.

    Agreed. They should add something to each fight, right now they are just in the way but not so much that you are going to divert your attention from trying to take out the baddies as soon as possible. There should be incentive to clearing out the mobs.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    just transferred over a bunch of at's to pts.I can safely say, none of mine are in Rampage gear or have anything over a R7 mod, they are more likely heroic, mercenery or AH specials with R5 or 6. Really lucky ones might have a piece of legion gear.​​
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  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    I am very happy with the changes to Bosses. The damage done by the bosses themselves is not enough to destroy you if you are equipped with Blue tier gear, but it is the enviromental hazards that are challenging. It took us several tries to defeat Medusa, but it was never Medusa herself that was killing us (although she gave our tank a good fight). Those darn totems were the hard part, but it was still fun and took team work. A+

    Grond is similar, except I didn't realize the team work part until one of our team mates went CC focused on keeping mobs at bay (CC being useful! YAY!). Grond takes quite a long time to defeat though, but not excessively so. The fight is just long.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    So after the last batch of changes and some testing, here are my observations:

    Gravitar - now totally doable, and actually a lot of fun. I ran it as a squishy character ( who uses Dark Transfusion, so healing options are limited ~.^ ) and I found that the main thing you have to do to survive as a squishy is pay attention to all the tells, make sure not to be in any of them ( I had to move, blocking most of the stuff was not an option - no surprise for a character without low defense and no block replacer ) and don't attract too much add attention.

    Teliosaur - nothing was changed here, this fight is still doable, and probably the simplest. Just stand in the right spot, watch the two tells, do the dps ( my character was no dps monster, so the dps output requirements are clearly reasonable ).

    Medusa - Is now more exciting due to the higher damage output and TK Eruption power, but still completely doable - once again, to stay alive as a squishy all I had to do was pay attention and react. The psi bombs could still use some better feedback for when you've grabbed one.

    Grond - Grond received sort of a one-two punch buff it seems; he does the fire more, and got more hit points so he has longer to put more fire. I think he only needed one of those buffs, or maybe slightly less of both. Currently he's the roughest of the four, but not by much. Another example of a fight where you just need to pay attention, though thanks to the knocking adds this fight is also the most "control-the-adds" dependent one ( the way we dealt with them was key to our success ). I'm actually saddened to see him go the "travel powers constantly disabled route" - I liked him better when he temporarily locked them out. Nothing like getting your flight smashed off of you and falling into some fire!

    HUGE issue is the fact that the fire patches flicker and become invisible quite often. At certain points almost the entire room worth of fire became invisible. This happened even when there were only 2 flame patches at a time.

    Also we bugged him at one point. Several flame patches persisted after the fight reset ( they didnt do damage tho ).


    Telios - Good end fight. Chaotic, but not too chaotic, and the passing mechanic is a good unique teamwork thing. One thing though....

    GET THAT SCOREBOARD **** OUTTA THERE! Please :smiley:



    Special Note: My character was a crowd control type character, and that felt very relevent in some of these fights. I was able to use crowd control to meaningful effect, primarily to keep adds from harrassing the healer, and I like this. My CC toon finally has a situation where I actually feel like I make a difference for having brought her. A toon that is even more heavily built towards CC ( i don't even have the form! ) would likely be a huge asset in this lair.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    So after running the Lair again... Here is my feedback:

    Balancing: I thought the re-balance of the bosses was well done. It took a lot of tries and dying to understand how to approach the different fights, but once we figured things out I would say that with Blue Tier Gear you can do it. The benefits of having a dedicated Tank, DPS, Healer, or CCer are evident (YES! A CC SPECIALIST IS VERY USEFUL!). However, if you don't have those, you just have to adjust your tactics and work with what you have. It isn't impossible to do, but it does make you grateful when you have builds or players who's strengths help you out. We lacked any CC, so we were knocking mobs around all day to keep ourselves alive but a CC player would really have been great. Doable without, but rewarding for planning ahead.

    Minty Hot Flames: The boss that needs yet still some fine tuning is Grond. His minions have long ranged knock (Maybe shorten their range?) and being thrown into a fire by a knock coming from across the room was not fun. Also, Grond's stomp has a very short charge yet powerful knock back. If his charge was longer or the tell more obvious then that would be great. Most importantly, the flames need their damage toned down. No matter how it happens, seeing your character lie on their back after getting knocked into a patch of green flames is frustrating when you know you have seconds before death. Please make it so the flames are a threat, but not a method of swift execution.

    If the bubble is yellow, you're a dead fellow Gravitar's fight is much better now thanks to the cone tell she has for her power (please put this is more things! Even player powers!) The secret yet again to her fight is taking care of the mobs (Please CC person, you are our only hope).It is fun to be running around the map while dodging the AOEs, distracting mobs and still trying to do as much damage to Gravitar as possible. The one big gripe about her however is the time it takes for her bubbles to detonate. The time was increased but it could be increased just a little more. Blocking when the bubble appears works if you block immediately, but if you are still using a power or are finishing an animation, it is possible that due to latency you will still get hit. Even with blocking they do plenty of damage, so please increase the time before the bubbles detonate.

    Medusa changed my mind: Medusa worked well with her increased health and damage. She is definitely much more challenging. The only thing with her fight is conveying to the player the amount of totems they have and are allotted. Although it was clear you can only get two, it wasn't clear that the penalty for getting a 3rd was a team wipe. Perhaps if there was sound and visual effect to something of a bomb going off (player blinking rapidly, a whirling or beeping noise that increases from 1 totem pickup to 2 totem pick ups) then players would better realize they should NOT get a 3rd and realize when they have already picked up two totems. Technical bugs aside (Medusa's totems will spawn partly in the wall if you are fighting here close enough to the wall), the fight was really fun. 8/10 would run again.

    If you can make it worth my while... : The Lair is fun, but due to the difficulty of it, it can take a while. Even once we got our tactics for our group figured out, we still died a bit and had to retry numerous times (not counting the times we spend going about the fight in the wrong fashion) Then because the fights are different from the usual fare of just using bosses as health sponges (YAY!), the fights took much much longer than usual (Boo!). I really don't mind that it takes a while to clear, but I certainly hope the reward for doing so is going to be quite high. Players should be rewarded after each boss (in case they find themselves unable to clear the lair they should walk away with something, right?) and be given a large reward after teleios's defeat (lots and lots of Gold Champion Recognition)

    There are some other technical bugs that we found but I am sure @aiqa has documented them and will post them any moment now.
    Post edited by xrazamax on
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Feedback:
    • Grond's minions do a LOT of knock spam which I generally don't like. But this does make the fight more difficult and requires some tactic. We could really have used a dedicated crowd controll build on that fight.
    • Grond's fire patches go invisible from certain camera angles when there are many active.
    • Grond's fire patches can stay active after a wipe. When that happens the team needs to enter the room at almost the same time, or risk being locked out.
    • When Medusa spawns the sigils close to a wall it can be almost impossible to pick them up.
    • The somewhat subtle visuals of the sigils can make it hard to see them when using certain powers. I can see epidemic completely covering them up.
    • When playing a full healer, and never attacking Teleios, you do not get any score and do not get a rewardcircle. But the mission does complete.
    • Gravitar's blue spheres are so fast you can just about block the damage, but blocking knocks is always a little laggy so that doesn't work at all.
    • All in all the lair was lots of fun, and even while it's not really impossible to complete it does feel like an accomplishment.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Note: The butthead that posted before me did have a crowd controller there. The problem was that crowd controller was getting knocked all over the place by Grond's add's long range knocks. In the other fights the crowd control was happening very well. So :P
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    spinnytop said:

    Note: The butthead that posted before me did have a crowd controller there. The problem was that crowd controller was getting knocked all over the place by Grond's add's long range knocks. In the other fights the crowd control was happening very well. So :P

    You have holds on that build, but you are using compassion. Using manipulator makes a huge difference for crowd control, that is what I meant with "dedicated". Like I can bring a healer using concentration, but it wont really be a dedicated healer.

    But I do agree, the knocks spam from grondlings combined with the fire patches does seem to make the Grond fight depend quite a bit on luck. Keeping the firepatches in 1 place does help, but that will always be the place where Grond is. So any minions that attack you will usually knock you towards the fire patches. And since those rock throw knocks are very strong and have a huge range that happens quite often. But I'd have to play through that fight many more times before I can decide is there are tactics that makes it doable without depending on luck a lot.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    Being knocked around when you don't have knock resist is annoying, but I'm not so much against the knocks - since you can prevent those - as I am against the fact getting knocked into a patch of fire spells certain doom.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    Grond's flame patches disappear easily, moving the camera around might make them appear or reappear. For some this is a major problem as they end up running right through the flames when they cannot see them.

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    spinnytop said:

    Note: The butthead that posted before me did have a crowd controller there. The problem was that crowd controller was getting knocked all over the place by Grond's add's long range knocks. In the other fights the crowd control was happening very well. So :P

    You have holds on that build, but you are using compassion. Using manipulator makes a huge difference for crowd control, that is what I meant with "dedicated". Like I can bring a healer using concentration, but it wont really be a dedicated healer.
    I think that's going to be a fight where even having manipulator won't make a difference, unless the controller also has high knock resist ( and even then... our tank was getting knocked around too ). Which is fine since it means each boss requires a unique tactic. Maybe the long range knocks should stay - they require good flame placement to avoid the whole "flying into fire" thing.



    SUGGESTION:

    Tone down the damage of the fire but also have it apply a stacking debuff that causes the player to take more damage from the fire. That way, just getting tossed in the fire once isn't a death sentence, but getting tossed in repeatedly is.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    "Grond's flame patches disappear easily, moving the camera around might make them appear or reappear."

    This is the same issue with the fire cage in Fire and Ice. Doubly sucks for melee since it's hard to know when it's safe to actually do anything again if you can't see the damn cage. Especially for a melee tank. ... Can we have fight mechanics that make it suck to be ranged instead of making it suck to be melee? How about some equal opportunity hate? Or should I just give up and respec into an easy, cheesy 2gun / SR form of the forever build?
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,376 Arc User
    sterga wrote: »
    "Grond's flame patches disappear easily, moving the camera around might make them appear or reappear."

    This is the same issue with the fire cage in Fire and Ice. Doubly sucks for melee since it's hard to know when it's safe to actually do anything again if you can't see the damn cage. Especially for a melee tank. ... Can we have fight mechanics that make it suck to be ranged instead of making it suck to be melee? How about some equal opportunity hate? Or should I just give up and respec into an easy, cheesy 2gun / SR form of the forever build?

    This is probably because the engine has had a limiter put in place that cuts down on particle effects past a certain limit. Same with people, after so many objects are on screen it just stops rendering anything past a certain number. Not sure if they can remove that limiter.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    edited January 2016


    This is probably because the engine has had a limiter put in place that cuts down on particle effects past a certain limit. Same with people, after so many objects are on screen it just stops rendering anything past a certain number. Not sure if they can remove that limiter.​​

    It can't be. I was having this issue with just 2 patches. I was also not having it at all, and then it suddenly started only once the room was filled with patches. It doesn't seem to be related to a specific number of patches, so it can't be related to a limit.
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,376 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    It can't be. I was having this issue with just 2 patches. I was also not having it at all, and then it suddenly started only once the room was filled with patches. It doesn't seem to be related to a specific number of patches, so it can't be related to a limit.

    Well you gotta remember it's not just those particles being rendered that the limiter will hit, it's also every little effect, animal, pet, critter and so forth. Certain affects are classified as particles, like the crumbles coming off the thrown slabs, or aura effects and so forth. So this may be interfering with all that.

    It might not be that, and just a limitation of the engine in general, of course, so I don't know. Just offering up a suggestion that could possibly be explored to see if it can be fixed.

    I know with the rampage Gravitar fight, that was exactly what was happening, that so many particle effects were going on that the bubbles would not render, thus GMC had to set the bubbles to have priority rendering over other particle effects and splats.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,419 Arc User
    At one point I actually shoved my face into a wall outside of Grond's room and was able to see through the wall into the room. One of the fires was flickering like crazy... maybe it has something to do with the camera getting too close to walls behind the player. Just a theory.
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 673 Community Moderator
    Some assorted suggestions and comments after running the updated lair a couple times:


    The Beginning
    Queue QQ
    The Queue tech needs some work. Several players noted that, when trying to join an in-progress run, the queue took very long to pop. I also encountered a timer bug when I tried to join an in-progress run. The queue popped and I hit Ready. Then the timer immediately froze at zero and did not launch. Several minutes later, the timer issue finally resolved and started counting down from the standard ten seconds.

    You Win?
    I left my game running for a couple hours after finishing a lair run, with me loitering inside the lair. A new player finally queued, and was placed into my already-completed instance.

    Boring Flooring
    Clearing the floors leading up to the boss floor feels tedious. If a team is capable of dealing with the boss fights, the trash mobs on these floors aren't going to pose a threat. And when a new player joins an in-progress lair, it takes unnecessarily long for him/her to circle the floors and get to the action. I understand that it's supposed to be a tower, but one floor of warm-up mobs (then progress right to the boss fights) would feel more exciting. Or, if floors are already cleared, give an option at the teleporter to skip to the highest-accessed floor. Probably add a teleporter to the beginning of the lair too (disabled at first, but can access new floors as others are cleared).


    Medusa
    Big Badda-Boom
    Medusa periodically uses a giant AoE (similar to the OV version). It deals huge damage; but if you block, that damage is trivialized. I noticed that blocking early in the attack animation does work as intended. However, if you start blocking a little later, you get the "Blocked" message, but the attack still deals huge damage. This timing snafu can make the mechanic feel unfair, and will leave players wondering why they got splattered even though they registered a block.

    Stealth Bomber
    Medusa periodically drops 5 sigils on the floor. Players need to collect (run over) all the sigils very quickly (maybe 10 seconds?), or everyone dies. The catch is that a single player can only collect up to 2 sigils. If someone collects 3, everyone dies.

    With all the battle effects, the sigils are very hard to see, even with their pulsing circle on the floor. I would recommend adding a vertical light column to each sigil, maybe the same light burst effect given to the exclamation marks on "special" loot drops. It is also very difficult to tell how many sigils you are currently holding; the only indication is a numbered icon under your portrait. I would recommend a clearer visual tally. Maybe add a bright orb over the character's head when they collect a sigil. When you see two orbs, you know to stop.

    The timing is very tight on sigil collection. Fast travel powers are very beneficial. I wouldn't mind seeing the sigil timer being extended a few more seconds, or the maximum sigil-carry increased to 3. However, I think that making the sigils and sigil count more visible is the priority.

    Ready, Set, Repeat!
    At the very beginning of the fight, Medusa drops the sigils and activates her AoE. This is a rather jarring beginning to the encounter, and frequently leads to early wipes if someone isn't completely ready. Dying in the first 10 seconds isn't a lot of fun. I would recommend holding off on the Sigils and AoE for a little longer, so players have a chance to get into "battle mode" before the mechanics kick in.


    Grond
    We Didn't Start The Fire
    After a team wipe, several of Grond's fire patches remain visually active indefinitely. The patches no longer deal damage, but their existence becomes rather confusing. You don't know which patches are real, and which are the visual bug.

    No Solicitors
    The travel power suppression can hit you when you're hugging the outside of Grond's door. When that happens, the room goes into lockdown and players cannot enter.

    Health Careless
    On one run, Grond's health didn't reset after the team wiped and re-entered. Grond cannot afford his monthly health insurance premiums.

    The Floor Is Lava
    Grond uses his fire spit very frequently. I understand that the point of the fight is to strategically place the patches and KO Grond before the fire gets out of hand. But with Grond's damage output, high health, and other player(s) dealing with the knock-heavy mobs, the entire floor usually gets coated in fire anyway. I would recommend reducing the existence time of the fire patches (maybe 3-5 minutes per patch?). That way, only a certain number of patches exist at a time; and the mechanic becomes like a game of Centipede, with the trail of fire constantly updating as new patches emerge and old ones fizzle.

    YOLO
    If you get knocked into a fire patch, you're very likely going to die from it. When that happens, resurrecting doesn't help much; you'll just re-burn. Shortening the shelf life of the fire patches would help this. You would be down for a while, but would get a chance to rez after your patch fizzles.

    Knock, Knock. Who's There? GRONDLINGS
    Grond's mobs possess a rock throw that has very long range, and causes significant knockback. Players frequently take a random rock to the head from left field, and get knocked into a fire patch. This is particularly problematic for healers, who generate full-screen threat by healing. I understand that keeping mobs in check is a key part of all these lair encounters, but it's no fun to get one-shotted by a Grondling from across the stage. I would recommend reducing the rock throw range to maybe 30 feet, and giving it a little charge-up time. Players would still have to worry about it (especially since travel powers are disabled, making kiting difficult), but at least you can see it coming.

    Red Green Rover
    Grond is supposed to have a no-cooldown lunge, to immediately chase a tank that walks back after a fire spit. In practice, it often takes him a few seconds to cycle the lunge, which can make holding threat difficult for a melee tank. The lunge also deals roughly 15k base damage, which seems a little high. If someone besides the tank grabs threat (even if only for a moment), the immediate lunge is probably going to 1-shot them. I would recommend toning down the lunge damage. Grond's damage output is deadly enough with his other attacks.


    Teleiosaurus
    I think this one works well. As long as a tank holds threat, teammates can stay behind the 'Saurus to avoid the Death Breath, which is the biggest threat in the fight. Teleiosaurus does do a periodic AoE stun and knock (which can require careful blocking); but I think those are reasonable mechanics, as they both have animation tells.


    Gravitar
    I think Gravi works well too. The updated visual tell for Force Cascade makes her damage output manageable, but still hectic. The mobs can knock and stun, so it helps to have someone keeping them in check. Her orange bubble is an insta-kill, which I think is a reasonable mechanic. Fast travel powers really help here.


    Telios
    Regular Checkups
    Telios's poison mechanic ("The STD") is visually noted by a greenish-red glow. However, with auras and battle effects, this glow can be very difficult to see. Similar to Medusa's sigil-count visual, I would recommend some sort of orb or icon over the infected character's head.

    Pet Cemetery
    The STD can be transferred to pets, which isn't intended. Keep it to your own species, ya weirdo.
  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Darn you @carrionbaggage and your clever wordplay!



    Telios
    Regular Checkups
    Telios's poison mechanic ("The STD") is visually noted by a greenish-red glow. However, with auras and battle effects, this glow can be very difficult to see. Similar to Medusa's sigil-count visual, I would recommend some sort of orb or icon over the infected character's head.

    Agreed, in fact the green hue can be lost fairly easily. I would recommend maybe even removing it if it causes any performance drops in favor of an icon over your head or a circle around your player's feet. Something that is different than usual that catches the eye is neccessary with all the fx flying around the screen.


    Pet Cemetery
    The STD can be transferred to pets, which isn't intended. Keep it to your own species, ya weirdo.

    Really? I did not see this! Even with pets running around, I didn't see any time during which Genetic Siphon was passed on to them. That is interesting. That could cause a problem for melee players attacking Teleios who are surrounded by pets. This also makes me wonder: Does anyone know for sure what happens to the Genetic Siphon when a player dies with it on?
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 673 Community Moderator
    xrazamax said:

    Really? I did not see this! Even with pets running around, I didn't see any time during which Genetic Siphon was passed on to them. That is interesting. That could cause a problem for melee players attacking Teleios who are surrounded by pets. This also makes me wonder: Does anyone know for sure what happens to the Genetic Siphon when a player dies with it on?

    I don't think we encountered any pet infections on our Friday run, but everyone there was pretty good about staying off to the side when infected. The Saturday run was a little more chaotic, and we witnessed the poison jump to nearby pets. We lost track of it for a minute or so while a pet pile passed the STD amongst themselves. Shameless inbreeding.

    If the poison carrier dies, I think it shoots out to a random person again, like it does at the start of the fight. I've seen people die with it away from the rest of the group, then someone else still gets infected. No cure for this STD.

    I forgot a note for Grond...

    Hot Flashes
    The GFX for the fire patches tend to disappear when viewed at certain angles/distances. You can fix the problem by swiveling the camera with mouselook until you get a visible angle, but this causes issues for players whose controls aren't set up for on-the-fly camera adjustment.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    Suggestion: During GROND's boss fight, when he reaches half HP, allow the 2/4 spawn points to be destructible, which permanently limits the amount of adds that spawn.

    Question to recent testers; I'm seeing people saying that a CCer is useful in this content...is this trolling or a legitimate observation?
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