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Teleios Ascendant Epic Lair Discussion
ladygadfly
Posts: 279 Cryptic Developer
This is the thread for Teleios Ascendant Epic Lair discussion. Please discuss the other changes & rewards on their appropriate thread:
Full Patchnotes
Teleios Ascendant Epic Lair Discussion
Teleios Ascendant Rewards Discussion
Collectors Lockbox Discussion
Aurum Heirloomn Gear Discussion
Device & Power Changes Discussion
Additional Changes Discussion
Full Patchnotes
Teleios Ascendant Epic Lair Discussion
Teleios Ascendant Rewards Discussion
Collectors Lockbox Discussion
Aurum Heirloomn Gear Discussion
Device & Power Changes Discussion
Additional Changes Discussion
Post edited by ladygadfly on
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Comments
Grond's battle is perfect the way it is. It requires the team to either move around the room together or all spread out and hope for the best after he spawns the fire patches.
Medusa is also fine, the players have to stay aware of Medusa's warning and the sigils afterwards. I think adding a voiceover for her warning would be helpful if people are seeing too many numbers or sfx on their screen, which makes it hard to see the text.
Lastly, Teliosaur's battle is more simple. The only thing players have to watch for are the dinosaur henchmen. When they get in a group they can be deadly.
Overall the lair seems great and I can't wait for it to hit live. Can't wait to see more like it.
Bug: Grond boss doesn't drop his pits, a mechanic bug.
Wall Bug: Pets and other Summons go through walls, preventing players to go through unlockables doors.
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All the bosses should probably have their health beefed up some, with the exception of Gravitar, she needs her health reduced. Between 1.2 to 1.5 health for each boss should be decent.
Medusa should probably have her sigil count increased up to 5 or 6, it becomes a bit too easy to hit F to pick them up.
Teleiosaurus Hatchling is fine. People just need to learn positioning with her, and the PvP weekend warriors need to stop spamming CC, because you are the ones causing the wipes.
Grond, dunno since I haven't seen his full mechanics yet. He felt a bit dry though, so wait and see when he is properly working.
Gravitar, yea 7 mill health and substantially high DPS along with adds, made her too difficult to tank, let alone the fact her cascade is still random.
The only boss that seemed to drop a reward in this dungeon, so far, was Grond and it was just a questionite box. Needs to have other rewards for this.
All in all I am enjoying this. I feel like a tank again that has a job I can do. And with the new gear and changes to my build I don't feel like just another DPS on the team but an actual tank.
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- The mobs in de first floor are just filler, they are in need of a buff.
- Gravitar needs to either have her damage cut, or there needs to be a mechanic to protect the non-tanks from the random Cascades. We should not expect every build to be able to handle 20k hits.
The other boss fights are fun and (at least on the first run) took a few times to get through, even with a well balanced team.It would be nice if there was more narrative to why this lair was there. I get the premise - it looks like Teleios got whatever he was after with the Onslaught experimenting. However, there isn't much that frames this lair as such. Just a little added lore, maybe one cut scene, would be kinda nice.
On the other hand, I get the vibe from this lair that it is just one of many future lairs that are sort of like "Epic" level challenges for top tier players (especially with the whole "VS" font popping up during teleios' fight"). In this case, I could understand the lack of narrative as it makes it feel more like Alerts on steroids rather than Lairs like Vikorin or Therakiel's Temple. However, in that case, I would give the Strikeforce Quartermaster some VO as he is the closest thing to a liaison between you and these Lairs we'll be going to.
SUGGESTION: Please make it easier to tell who has the health debuff during Teleios' fight. The mechanics are not very well explained, and because of the numerous enemies, I could see people thinking they are getting killed by mobs rather than realizing the debuff was killing them. If there was better visualization to show you were being poisoned (A skull over your player perhaps?) and maybe visualization to show who you were passing the debuff off to (like how there is a line of light for mirrors in Therakiel's Temple) the fight would be more clear as to what the mechanics are.
But Gravitar dealing 20k damage with Random Cascades?
Is this REALLY your defination of harder concept? One Shot Bosses? Based on RNG? No Strategy or Enviroment Puzzles? Really? That's Pathetic
Grond: The boss is perfect damage and fight wise, [painfully hard, but not unbeatable] but like Medusa could do with a HP increase to about 2mil
Telesiouar: the timing on the tells is out of sync with her attacks damage, and the hold has no tell, is incredibly strong and leaves you completel vrunable... suggest weaking it slightly and adding a tell, or removing it all together.
Gravitar: Too much Hp, too much damage, too quick on the attacks, reduce her maxium HP, and eaither make her attacks slower or make them weaker, and for the love of god give her tells when using powers, and fix her cascades to not be random.
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Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Grond needs a health boost. 700k is underwhelming.
Medusa needs a health bump, and her attacks need EITHER a boost, OR an attack speed increase, but not both, Super tanks during her fight still feel, well, like super tanks.
Gravitar's damage is very high, even I had some trouble adjusting unless without an absolute perfect group set up with high tier players. My suggestion would be to keep her mechanics and everything the same, but if it's within the engine's power, allow her attacks to instead remove a total % of player health, rather than a flat damage amount. Doing so would keep the content challenging, but allow more flexibility with non-super tank type players.
Teleiosaurus Hatchling I feel has no issues, and is fine the way it is.
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There needs to be an information box before each fight that INFORMS PLAYERS of what to do before each fight, including trickier mechanics such as "Only collect below 2 Psionic Bombs so the team doesnt wipe out."
The information notes provided by Teleios are vague at best, so perhaps putting information in there is the thing to do.
There should be a way to periodically turn off adds in ALL boss fight rooms. Gives another element to the fights which players can utilize for their benefit.
The mobs are good IMO, despite this being an Epic Level Lair, we should remember that not everyone has top end gear and there are ATs out there.
This content should be balanced to acknowledge that fact.
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My thoughts on Medusa:
Medusa's sigils need to be adjusted visually.
They are too similar in terms of appearance to Ebon Sigils. Make them very visible and pink and give them a unique visual model so they are distinct.
EDIT: STEAL THE VFX FROM MENTON IN STRONGHOLD!!! He drops psi orbs during his fight as part of an old mechanic. Steal those, enlarge them and use it as Medusa's Psionic Bomb VFX.
There should also be tells for when she drops those Psionic Bombs like bubbles in a similar manner to how Gravitar works.
Aside from that I like the fight, she could do with more damaging attacks. Steal more of her OSV mechanics and put them on this version of her. (Particularly TK Eruptions mechanics).
Grant her a PBAoE (100ft) attack which applies 4 stacks of Mind Spikes. Allow her to do this up to three times and then follow it up with TK Eruption. However, collecting at least ONE Psionic Bomb should remove several stacks of Mind Spikes.
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Gravitar:
-Is Hilarious
-Needs Adjusting
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Teleiosaurus (Rex
- It is interesting to see a Tough Legendary grade NPC hold at work! However I think this hold was adjusted somewhere. The adds dealing damage to a held target should degrade the HP of the hold. It currently does not. The hold from what I can see has around 4.5-5.5k Hold HP (will need to take a better look to get a better idea of the actual value). The use of this ability also needs a clear tell.
- I don't think the breath aspect should be that strong at first. It seems to be balanced for an open world crowd. So a suggestion: Upon not blocking his hold, players gain "Vulnerability" debuff. Vulnerability debuff allows Teleiosaurus' radioactive breath attack to apply at full strength. Without this status effect, the breath should hit at half it's current value.
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Grond:
I felt that Grond is in a really good place at the moment.
(More feedback later)
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Basically it's going to require organization and designations, and of course the healer might not want auto healing stuff so they aren't aggroing.
As for Teleiosaurus tell, that thing can't be more broadcast than it is. It's the two step walk that she does. First goes up start blocking if you aren't blocking when the second leg goes down you are stunned. I wrote the guide about Teleiosaruas ages ago about this effect. Be thankful she doesn't have the shooting spines like momma does. Hehehe.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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THINGS TO BE IMPROVED:
1. The informational computer screen thingies outside each boss room need to be big and eyecatching so that people definitely read them. Like, make them bigger, and maybe consider making it so that players can't even enter the boss room until everyone has activated it. Also, don't assume that people have done Gravitar and Teliosaurus before; mention something about their mechanics in their little write ups as well.
2. The crystals in medusa's room need better feedback for when you have successfully grabbed one. Make the crystal do a little explody thing, and have a glowy effect happen on the player, that way they definitely know they got it. Right now it's a bit lacking in feedback.
3. Gravitar needs to be tuned down. Currently it's as if you guys saw all the complaints people had about her completely excluding squishy characters from participating and decided to make it canon.
THINGS I LIKE:
1. I really like the adds during the fight. They come forever, they're strong enough that they matter but not too strong. It creates situations where people can make the fight go a lot smoother by paying attention and helping each other.
2. Medusa's fight keeps my head on a swivel, and I like that. I like how I have to pay attention to a bunch of things; it is very stimulating.
3. The temporary travel power removal in Grond is great. Finally an NPC who can do this!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
We killed your so called "OP" Gravitar Clone. It took 40 minutes, but we did it. Is it so OP? Not really. A few excellent tanks are really all you need.
Still, I can't wait to see an adjusted/WAI version of Gravitar.
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That does not in any way diminish the fact that I like the fact that Grond can do this. Try again.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
40 minutes. I don't think I even have to point out the issue here considering this is only one boss in an instance with many, and not the final one.
So, is it so OP? Yes, absolutely, and you helped to illustrate that very well. Thank you.
So far this lair has examples of some really good design ideas ( difficulty that is based on player action, rather than stats and build ) and some really bad ones ( difficulty entirely based around stats and build ). Hopefully they iron out the bad parts and gussy them up with some more ideas from the good parts. I'd hate to see this lair be just another abandoned piece of content in spite of half of it being really well made.
PS - I know there are some people hoping that this will be "content for the 1%". Hopefully those people don't get their way. In a game that is all about having fun being creative and making all sorts of diverse builds, you can't really thrive on content designed around the idea that it can only be participated in by people using a small collection of very specific builds ( we learned that in pvp, remember? ).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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She's still OP. Think I had 115% resistance then another 143% coming in from and every 48 seconds another 120% from aegis... Plus the 100% from ebon void so was at about 73% mitigation some of the time before ebon void and ebon void was knocking another 50% off that. So was getting a lot of resistance in there.
Wow disagrees with you. You can still have fun with the rest of the game and this actually inspires build diversity, something that hasn't been happening.
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Regen happens at the same rate as dino on island, basically if the DPS is not high enough to stop the buff then it will occur.
As far as health they all except the Hatchling and Gravitar need it upped. Gravitar needs to be toned down some basically.
Teleios is going to stump people for a while I can bet, but I know the strat in my brain now just need to formulate the words and probably wait two weeks after this goes live so people have a chance to figure it out.
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Yes, Gravitar needs adjusting, but don't kill the magic.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
She'll be seeing some adjustments.
Also, I disagree with the statement that all bosses should have the same health. Why would Medusa and Gravitar have the same health as a beast like Grond?
On the other hand, good to see stuff requiring work, coordination and DETERMINATION
How many people have we seen here, post that they quit alerts if they take too long or they aren't winning fast enough.
Doing this, I fully expect to make a lot of use of Res items but it's worth it. You have infinite lives.
Possible solutionHow about an old favourite? Save points. After/before each Boss fight, the group saves. That way if they don't have time to finish it that day or people need to restock. They can continue later.
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Grond has only 700k health he's fairly easy to beat as is. Hatchling has 2.3 mill about that I think, and Medusa also has 700k. Gravitar has 7 mill.
And calm down, crikey this is what test is for. Iron out and find the issues, and tune the encounters appropriately. This is intended for people that are either geared and/or built well, it's not meant as just any average joe can stroll in without some coordination.
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Yes, but. The basic flaw in Champions is that so much of the outcome of a battle is decided not by what the player does in the room, but what they did before the battle starts - how they're geared, what their stats are. That makes for a very small window of "challenging" and a very large one of "couldn't finish this no matter how long you played it". No problem with that in itself, as long as the content isn't an impassable barrier to character progression. There should be an incentive to improve, understand the mechanics and to beat that challenge.
However... it needs to be seen in context of the reward structure. This patch introduces new high end gear which can only be earned by completing epic lairs, and makes it more difficult for lower-end players to get hold of Heroic Gear. That's going to mean fewer players achieving the level needed to complete the epic lairs and get the high-spec gear. The high-spec gear, which will, no doubt, then become the gold standard for defining the next lair's "challenge". Where does that leave everyone? Increased elitism, with new content being focused on an ever-diminishing group of players (half of whom seem more concerned with beating the content on PTS than testing it) and whoever else can catch up with them (more exploits and speed runs ahoy).
I like the idea of this lair having mechanics which involve player strategies and outcomes based on interaction. I'm less keen on "challenging" damage being based on flat numbers as that tends to rule more players out than in. I'm also not keen on the manner in which this lair will be accessed - private groups and mission sharing. If lairs are going to be a regular game feature, then they have to made playable by more people and more easily accessible, and the devs certainly shouldn't be making power changes that affect the whole game in order to make a small batch of content work properly.
Tl;dr, probably. But that's how I feel about it...
Gravitar needs to not shoot her FC at just anyone. The main tank should take most of those, and the person with the second highest agro can take a few. If there are squishy builds in the rest of the team, they'll have problems enough with the spheres. Her health also needs to be cut, the duration of the fight should be high enough for Gravitar to pose a threat, but should not be there just as filler.
Medusa is easy and smooth on some runs. Sometimes the sigils are placed all in 1 small area, right on top where the melee players are attacking her. I've seen that cause a couple of wipes that were completely unavoidable. But when the runs goes smooth it does seem a bit too easy. One thing that makes it a bit annoying is that it requires a fast in-combat travel power for most of the team. If a few people have flight, tunnel, etc, that can make getting all the sigils very hard (sigils can’t be picked up when using tunnel).
When blocking Grond’s charge attacks the fight is not very hard (miss one as a squishy build and you’re dead). The fire patches do make it interesting, so Grond could use a bit more health, take too long and the whole room could be one big fire pit.
Teleiosaurus requires the squishies of the team to know exactly where to stand, and make sure only 1 person holds agro. The rest is simply healing the tank, and doing enough dps to overcome the regeneration. The fight is pretty easy with an experienced team.
Then the last boss fight. I liked the mechanic and required coordination to pass around the poison effect. But some of the pull/knocks are too much for squishies to survive, even tanks can get killed fast. He also has a bit low health, but that is compensated to a point by all the other things that are going on. Even with his 700k the fight was not overly fast, his health could be increased a bit, but going higher than 2M would make it take too long.
Nobody cared about that either. *shrug*
On topic, I think the 'Hot Potato' idea sounds really cool.