Yeah, Int will remain plenty potent on ranged builds because of scaling Concentration, energy cost reduction, and MSA, though it might no longer be clearly superior to Ego. Less valuable on melee builds.
Could you leave a large reduction to the 'gear' recharge while adjusting INT's recharge separately?
Developers please do not release without a fix to the INT stat preventing another statistic no people take.
They're turning INT into a stat that not everybody takes. There may be more changes coming down the pipeline to do the same to Constitution. There may even be some changes coming to Wardicatior, though by the point that Constitution is done being tweaked that might not even be necessary anymore.
Think about what happens when you make all the stats "a stat that no people take". After all, it's not like people are just not going to take any stats. ( and no the answer is not "everybody stops playing the game" u_u ).
Preresponse: All content that becomes too challenging after these adjustments will itself be adjusted.
- Pressing 'esc' will close Event Details, Calendar, Welcome Page, Journal windows.
Why not let Esc prioritizing closing things without Xs in them, such as your target? That would make things SO much easier IMHO. Or better yet, make it an option.
Tried to test everything in current build, PC restarted within 10 minutes of game loading. Tried again, same result. It didn't matter if I was on the character select screen, loaded in as a premade character or created a random character. I posted my DxDiag on the technical forums for review.
I already know it's not my PC overheating, and that no other game or program is causing the same issue. I hope this gets addressed before this patch goes live.
The only way someone can achieve actual perma stealth is through the use of the U0-9 Crybaby Grenade power replacer since its version of Escape Artist has no internal cooldown.
Every other means of applying stealth cannot keep you there permanently as long as what/whoever you're facing has enough stealth sight (The Onslaught villains don't currently have an option in this case unfortunately).
The onslaught devices have no int or a stealth sight secondary like us PvP'ers NEED for stealth sight. (Note please consider putting a legacy stealth sight secondary in the hero games store or even something like the onslaught store to be honest, it's needed for PvP at the moment)
Once you have that all you really need is EM with its broken advantage and maybe smoke grenade but if something has 0 stealth sight I don't even know if you need that to perma stealth against it...
Note on stealth: Teleport's stealth and EM stack so you can become invisible to even someone like I who has 600 int with a stealth secondary on.
A big problem with stealth is it doesn't truly effect PvE enough in the devs eyes for it to really be much of a concern however if they plan to improve what people think of PvP then it'd be really nice for atleast something to be done somewhere even if it's just putting the legacy stealth secondary in a store. (is that really too hard to do? <_<)
Does stacking INT not give you the ability to see stealthed players, the way it gives you the ability to see stealthed NPCs? (One of the biggest reasons I take it, actually, so I can hit those pesky VIPER Infiltrators while I'm leveling.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Does stacking INT not give you the ability to see stealthed players, the way it gives you the ability to see stealthed NPCs? (One of the biggest reasons I take it, actually, so I can hit those pesky VIPER Infiltrators while I'm leveling.)
It doesn't give enough stealthsight by itself; you basically need a legacy +100% perception item on top of super-int.
In order to buy one piece of gear from the onslaught vendor, you will need to kill 1,000 defenders (I do not know how many tokens are awarded for killing players), if you are defeated before that defender is killed you get nothing from it. For the powers it will take 5,000 kills.
Killing large quantities of foes for perks/achievements is one thing but that is a grind of a whole different beast. Hopefully these values will be adjusted at some point.
As a side question, on the heirloom items beneath the passive heading in the tooltip it says 36,000 secs, what does this mean?
Does stacking INT not give you the ability to see stealthed players, the way it gives you the ability to see stealthed NPCs? (One of the biggest reasons I take it, actually, so I can hit those pesky VIPER Infiltrators while I'm leveling.)
It almost does but no you need some sort of perc on gear with high int.
You can see stealth with 200 int + legacy secondary + perc core 5 or you can see it with 300 int + secondary. When I say "see" this is seeing teleport or EM on their own. I personally at the moment have 600 int with a legacy secondary and if someone uses either NW or shadow form and stacks various forms of stealth + debuffs they can perma stealth against me. A trick that takes less sacrifice to do however is using EM with adv then hitting teleport to stack the two stealths upon each other which is impossible to see by anyone.
I don't know if this is a little off topic but I would say seeing as this new content is pretty much PvP it is relevant that people know about all this PvP stuff / numbers I think.
600 Int with a Legacy Perception piece in order to see someone abusing Stealth mechanics and tiny Stealth-creating cooldown powers. Seriously...Smoke grenade has like, no cooldown.
Because ya know....EVERYBODY has to run INT and have a Legacy Perception piece just to be able to attempt to create a level playing field and actually play, right? Doesnt matter if you run all that Int anyway, wont take too long for Ego Sleep or a High Stun build to happen and Perma-Hold someone.
Use INT and Con+EGO or you cant play PvP! Right? Right. That's whats on TestServer right now.
If it effects Onslaught Becomes, then it belongs here in this topic. And its got to be addressed.
We dont want to make fun of Onslaught, we want it to be challenging and fun for both sides.
If it effects Onslaught Becomes, then it belongs here in this topic. And its got to be addressed.
We dont want to make fun of Onslaught, we want it to be challenging and fun for both sides.
I hate to agree, but, I have to agree. This is a form of PvP. Some of the PvP experts enjoy showing off, and a few enjoy griefing. I've experienced it myself. PvPers are going to love this . . . and some will love it simply too much.
Unless these bosses can deal with standard PvP builds somehow, there will be problems.
The problem is making it so you don't completely neuter things like crowd control and stealth. Crowd control can probably be handled by giving them an inherent 100-200% resistance, but stealth is so very binary.
Attacking or taking hostile action in any form breaks your stealth, period, that's it. You get a 10-30 second debuff that prevents stealth granting powers from affecting you. That's how stealth balance works in literally every other game with stealth mechanics that are balanced.
Great, now that I've fixed the issue with stealth mechanics can I have a big ice cream cake?
Oh, and since smoke grenade is always going to be broke as hell no matter what as long as it does what it is intended to do. Make it so that smoke grenade debuffs whomever is standing in its perception, but also grants anyone in it stealth while they're standing in the cloud. After all, that is literally how a smoke grenade works. It creates a big-**** patch of non-visibility.
So instead of: *Throw smoke grenade and get a free attack on crippled player*
It will be: *Throw smoke grenade and both players lose targeting of one another and have to either PBAoE, or move somewhere to re-acquire each other.*
Also, in my opinion, the no targeting allowed advantage on it should just straight up be removed from the game. Maybe replace it with an energy draining advantage instead.
Attacking or taking hostile action in any form breaks your stealth, period, that's it. You get a 10-30 second debuff that prevents stealth granting powers from affecting you. That's how stealth balance works in literally every other game with stealth mechanics that are balanced.
On thing that might fix a number of stealth problems is to give PCs aggro counters (like NPCs), and making it so you can't hide from someone with a positive aggro score against you. This means that aggro wipes become PvP as well as PvE. It would also affect out of combat regen.
On smoke grenade, I'd rather just have it be an attack debuff, rather than mucking around with the perception system at all. You could also bake dodge/avoidance into all stealth effects, so they do something even when not preventing you from being attacked.
In most games I've played stealth is usually reserved for melee classes. CO does things differently, you can combine powers form any tree regardless to your role. For example, you can take Sentinel mastery on a non-healer and then proceed stun lock foes - which procs sentinel mastery so that you continuously heal yourself. That can't happen in other games because a team healing spec like SM would never, ever find it's way into a melee damage dealers hands.
We don't have roles in CO really and so far all the suggestions are to nerf the offending powers. The problem is we then end up with a bunch of powers no one uses. Champions is already littered with once great powers that are now useless. So I guess we just continue to add to the pile. What's next Sentinel Mastery, 2GM, Constitution, Wardicator, Lightning Arc, etc...
I'm not sure what the solution is. But as long as freeform is an all benefits no penalties system cherry picking is going to happen. That's probably why CDR got such a huge nerf. It sort of addresses a few problems and not just AO/AD cycling. Heavy hitting powers with long charge times will be harder to spam.
But the game has a much bigger balance problem. And I'm not sure how our DEV team is going to solve it - because in a freeform system anything is possible.
Or make it so that if someone is in stealth you still have a target on them, but you can't activate powers that require a target. Sort of like how stealth used to work in the old days.
If you want to know what I'm talking about in how it works, team up with the stealth user and duel them. When they are in stealth you simply cannot attack them unless with a power that doesn't need a target. So you pretty much remove the issue of trying to target and attack, only to lose them in stealth again and never getting an attack off.
The Villains have no stealth site and are vulnerable to all of the nasty things players can do with stealth. Things like hiding in stealth and using SR over and over again, since it doesn't break stealth. Unless that was magically changed.
In Rift, stealth lasts for 30-ish seconds unless you invest 21 points into the assassin tree. It also is impossible to stand right next to anyone and not be visible unless you invest points into the mega-awesome stealth mode. Or whatever it's called.
So this thread has kind of badly derailed . But I do want to bring it back to what's on test right now. I was chatting with a friend and apparently the taunt on the new gear is very good. He claimed his tank was able to hold aggro in the training room with it - even though the person he was teamed with was doing heavy damage.
Has anyone else tested this out? Because equipment that improves a tanks Taunting is big news. And it's something we've all seemed to have overlooked.
@riverocean This is actually good news, tanks have previously had to min-max their Threat generation in order to keep aggro against todays DPS'ers, not everybody is a 'To-the-KnifeEdge' min-maxer so if the taunt allows ALL tanks to have an easier time getting and keeping aggro, i believe this is a good thing.
With power creep, DPS has gone rediculously high, Threat Generation on tanks however, hasnt moved much.
I agree with this, not every tank can hold aggro against the high end DPSers these days.
Yeah, typically I can hold aggro (with my tank) against just about any dps in F&I because they have high damage resistance and threat bonuses aren't reduced by damage resistance, but elsewhere, not so much.
Comments
Developers please do not release without a fix to the INT stat preventing another statistic no people take.
I'm betting INT will still be one of the most popular stats taken after these changes, because it'll still be very useful.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Think about what happens when you make all the stats "a stat that no people take". After all, it's not like people are just not going to take any stats. ( and no the answer is not "everybody stops playing the game" u_u ).
Preresponse: All content that becomes too challenging after these adjustments will itself be adjusted.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The actual issue always was the fact the alert system included gear in which you could get a huge amount of INT-equivalent.
It is not just a coincidence the major things like defense rotation happened after on alert.
Unless they nerf the cost reduction and other benefits.
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No balance >= No Fun >= No Game.
Tried to test everything in current build, PC restarted within 10 minutes of game loading. Tried again, same result. It didn't matter if I was on the character select screen, loaded in as a premade character or created a random character. I posted my DxDiag on the technical forums for review.
I already know it's not my PC overheating, and that no other game or program is causing the same issue. I hope this gets addressed before this patch goes live.
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Every other means of applying stealth cannot keep you there permanently as long as what/whoever you're facing has enough stealth sight (The Onslaught villains don't currently have an option in this case unfortunately).
You haven't seen me play as Dustfox then.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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It's not called stealth just for the fun of it.....
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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Once you have that all you really need is EM with its broken advantage and maybe smoke grenade but if something has 0 stealth sight I don't even know if you need that to perma stealth against it...
Note on stealth: Teleport's stealth and EM stack so you can become invisible to even someone like I who has 600 int with a stealth secondary on.
A big problem with stealth is it doesn't truly effect PvE enough in the devs eyes for it to really be much of a concern however if they plan to improve what people think of PvP then it'd be really nice for atleast something to be done somewhere even if it's just putting the legacy stealth secondary in a store. (is that really too hard to do? <_<)
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Killing large quantities of foes for perks/achievements is one thing but that is a grind of a whole different beast. Hopefully these values will be adjusted at some point.
As a side question, on the heirloom items beneath the passive heading in the tooltip it says 36,000 secs, what does this mean?
You can see stealth with 200 int + legacy secondary + perc core 5 or you can see it with 300 int + secondary. When I say "see" this is seeing teleport or EM on their own. I personally at the moment have 600 int with a legacy secondary and if someone uses either NW or shadow form and stacks various forms of stealth + debuffs they can perma stealth against me. A trick that takes less sacrifice to do however is using EM with adv then hitting teleport to stack the two stealths upon each other which is impossible to see by anyone.
I don't know if this is a little off topic but I would say seeing as this new content is pretty much PvP it is relevant that people know about all this PvP stuff / numbers I think.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Because ya know....EVERYBODY has to run INT and have a Legacy Perception piece just to be able to attempt to create a level playing field and actually play, right? Doesnt matter if you run all that Int anyway, wont take too long for Ego Sleep or a High Stun build to happen and Perma-Hold someone.
Use INT and Con+EGO or you cant play PvP! Right? Right. That's whats on TestServer right now.
If it effects Onslaught Becomes, then it belongs here in this topic. And its got to be addressed.
We dont want to make fun of Onslaught, we want it to be challenging and fun for both sides.
Some of the PvP experts enjoy showing off, and a few enjoy griefing. I've experienced it myself. PvPers are going to love this . . . and some will love it simply too much.
Unless these bosses can deal with standard PvP builds somehow, there will be problems.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Though the issue should be fixed, I think this is a decent band aid, since the big bad villains can always see through stealth anyway (I think?).
Great, now that I've fixed the issue with stealth mechanics can I have a big ice cream cake?
Oh, and since smoke grenade is always going to be broke as hell no matter what as long as it does what it is intended to do. Make it so that smoke grenade debuffs whomever is standing in its perception, but also grants anyone in it stealth while they're standing in the cloud. After all, that is literally how a smoke grenade works. It creates a big-**** patch of non-visibility.
So instead of: *Throw smoke grenade and get a free attack on crippled player*
It will be: *Throw smoke grenade and both players lose targeting of one another and have to either PBAoE, or move somewhere to re-acquire each other.*
Also, in my opinion, the no targeting allowed advantage on it should just straight up be removed from the game. Maybe replace it with an energy draining advantage instead.
Snark never dies.
On smoke grenade, I'd rather just have it be an attack debuff, rather than mucking around with the perception system at all. You could also bake dodge/avoidance into all stealth effects, so they do something even when not preventing you from being attacked.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
We don't have roles in CO really and so far all the suggestions are to nerf the offending powers. The problem is we then end up with a bunch of powers no one uses. Champions is already littered with once great powers that are now useless. So I guess we just continue to add to the pile. What's next Sentinel Mastery, 2GM, Constitution, Wardicator, Lightning Arc, etc...
I'm not sure what the solution is. But as long as freeform is an all benefits no penalties system cherry picking is going to happen. That's probably why CDR got such a huge nerf. It sort of addresses a few problems and not just AO/AD cycling. Heavy hitting powers with long charge times will be harder to spam.
But the game has a much bigger balance problem. And I'm not sure how our DEV team is going to solve it - because in a freeform system anything is possible.
If you want to know what I'm talking about in how it works, team up with the stealth user and duel them. When they are in stealth you simply cannot attack them unless with a power that doesn't need a target. So you pretty much remove the issue of trying to target and attack, only to lose them in stealth again and never getting an attack off.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
In Rift, stealth lasts for 30-ish seconds unless you invest 21 points into the assassin tree. It also is impossible to stand right next to anyone and not be visible unless you invest points into the mega-awesome stealth mode. Or whatever it's called.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Has anyone else tested this out? Because equipment that improves a tanks Taunting is big news. And it's something we've all seemed to have overlooked.
This is actually good news, tanks have previously had to min-max their Threat generation in order to keep aggro against todays DPS'ers, not everybody is a 'To-the-KnifeEdge' min-maxer so if the taunt allows ALL tanks to have an easier time getting and keeping aggro, i believe this is a good thing.
With power creep, DPS has gone rediculously high, Threat Generation on tanks however, hasnt moved much.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.