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FC.31.20150819.2/.3/.4 - Supervillain Onslaught

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  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    snip

    I'm looking forward to being able to test that out. Duels actually ending sounds nice.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    Onslaught Boss Timers:

    These seem to be starting as soon as they are rewards in the reward screen rather than when actually activated. This means you aren't really getting the full 30 minutes. This should be changed so the timer only starts when the device is ACTIVATED. I shouldn't be forced into Onslaught Mode for just picking up the device, I should have a choice of when to use it.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    notyuu wrote: »
    Another question...has anyone fought these Onslaught bosses on Vehicles yet?

    when I was testing out grond, I had more than a few plucky players go up agsaint me in Vehicles...they were swatted out of the air in a near instant though.

    I was using one just a little while ago. It had no kind of defensive mods, and it was a bike, so it was pretty squishy.

    A vehicle is kind of a must-have for melee characters. One jumpy villain and you're basically useless.​​
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    Question: Are we allowed to post observed mechanics of specific bosses on this thread? (Like how to combat them etc)
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    BUGS?
    1.Item vanished when I died.
    2.There are no heals for the villains, so if you die and lose your device then you will not be doing much.
    3.Item vanished when I removed it from the tray and put in bag.

    4.pets stay out when you use the device. They will attack your target.

    Good news- they can't heal you.

    onslaught%201_zpswjp5lu0n.png​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    A nerf on cooldown reduction is probably a good thing, but if we're messing with cooldown there are some long-standing issues to look at:

    1) Rating points of cooldown reduction do not have the same effect as stat points, they're about 80% stronger. By comparison, crit rating and cost reduction *do* have the same effect as stat points. Change them to be equal -- a bit stronger than current Int rating, a bit weaker than current CD reduction.
    2) Cooldown reduction doesn't work for *shared* cooldowns (devices, etc) at all. The tooltip lies and claims it does. At least one of those things needs to be fixed.​​
  • jellycupsowbugjellycupsowbug Posts: 358 Arc User
    If the Onslaught villains get knock immunity, try robot cowboys out on them. Those things can knock things that are knock immune. It might become an issue if you have to deal with ten or twenty of them. Also, check "Teddy", if that's not already taken care of.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    It was difficult for me to find where the Supervillain was; even when I hopped back in a few minutes ago and "Gravitar" was attacking RenCen, her location wasn't exactly obvious. (She was coming through the park on the west, headed for a guardbot at the base of the inner RenCen wall.) Perhaps a radar blip on the map or something? Maybe something environmental, like a beacon of light spearing the sky above the point the SV started at?

    I have to agree, the targets of the villain's wrath shouldn't be able to take them down. The superheroes should be required to do more than stand there and watch a guardbot do their job for them.

    (Incidentally, when I faced that Gravitar a few minutes ago, I was on Test 6, my Level 30 Hawkwing-Transformer character; I attacked in Hawkwing mode and did no detectable damage.)​​
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  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    Well there are definitely players who can solo these villains already. Logged on to check out Medusa's powers (to see if I could figure out how to use them) and a single player soloed me. I was dead in less than a minute. I went back in as Grond and faired a bit better. But the player was impossible to kill. Check out a snippet from the combat log. I removed the players name to protect his/her privacy.
    XXXX deals 4762 (4148) Crushing Damage to you with Dragon Uppercut.

    XXXX deals 4202 (3639) Crushing Damage to you with Dragon Uppercut.

    Your Nuclear Debris deals 114 (644) Crushing Damage to XXXX.

    XXXX deals 4443 (3828) Crushing Damage to you with Dragon Uppercut.

    XXXX gives 33 Energy to XXXX with Enraged!.

    Your Nuclear Debris deals 129 (732) Particle Damage to XXXX.

    Your Nuclear Debris deals 113 (640) Crushing Damage to XXXX.

    XXXX deals 4195 (3615) Crushing Damage to you with Dragon Uppercut.

    XXXX gives 3003 Health Points to XXXX with Conviction.

    As you can see this player deals more damage and has better defenses than the Grond Onslaught Device. I'm not sure how the Onlsaught devices can be balanced against people like this versus those with average to subpar builds.​​
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  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    It was difficult for me to find where the Supervillain was; even when I hopped back in a few minutes ago and "Gravitar" was attacking RenCen, her location wasn't exactly obvious. (She was coming through the park on the west, headed for a guardbot at the base of the inner RenCen wall.) Perhaps a radar blip on the map or something? Maybe something environmental, like a beacon of light spearing the sky above the point the SV started at?

    I have to agree, the targets of the villain's wrath shouldn't be able to take them down. The superheroes should be required to do more than stand there and watch a guardbot do their job for them.

    (Incidentally, when I faced that Gravitar a few minutes ago, I was on Test 6, my Level 30 Hawkwing-Transformer character; I attacked in Hawkwing mode and did no detectable damage.)​​


    When I was on the ptr, there was a green pillar of light, similar to the red beam that Tako has when he appears, coming from where the villains. It wasn't very bright and depending on in-game location/graphic settings it might be hard to see.
  • violetnychusvioletnychus Posts: 137 Arc User
    ladygadfly wrote: »
    - Intelligence: Cooldown Reduction granted by Intelligence has been drastically reduced.
    - Cooldown Reduction Rating: Cooldown Reduction granted by Cooldown Reduction rating has been drastically reduced.

    Please directly address defense stacking instead because it would ruin certain interesting abilities such as:

    A build that can cycle otherwise-not-particulary-effective recharging powers like Ebon Rift and Orbital Cannon

    Reciprocating Gizmo permanent enormous costumes

    You would hit a whole game of powers here and the real offenders are probably a smaller set.

    Could you say what the rationale is?
  • cynicoolcynicool Posts: 160 Arc User
    I'm pretty sure you all didn't mean to let someone have all their pets out at the same time they had the new suite of Supervillain powers, right?​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    So, a bug: I picked a green health boost as grond. I got 1,955,280 hp back.

    Another bug:
    [Combat (Other)] MCPD Protector deals 6245037 (4920921) Fire Damage to AuraSonic 14 with an unknown ability.​​
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    ladygadfly wrote: »
    Endbringer's Grasp Ultimate Power
    - Will appear in the powers list but is not yet ready for testing.

    I've read this power and I want to say in advance, don't allow players to tell you this trivializes content. It is a much needed step in the right direction and opens up a world of fun if the new mechanic it has actually works as stated.

    Naturally, I await a Telepathy version. :wink:
    ladygadfly wrote: »
    **EDIT Other Patchnotes
    - Intelligence: Cooldown Reduction granted by Intelligence has been drastically reduced.
    - Cooldown Reduction Rating: Cooldown Reduction granted by Cooldown Reduction rating has been drastically reduced.
    - Telepathy: Psi Lash: Should now start up much faster and activate more consistently.
    - Power Armor: Wrist Bolter: Should now start up much faster and activate more consistently.

    Hmm. This global cooldown adjustment has good points and bad points. As has been stated by others here...it seems like the majority are suffering due to the few.

    The main offenders which needed to be addressed were Active Offensive and Active Defensive cycling. This could be addressed by plopping a fix on the Shared CD side of things instead of reducing the value of INT and Cooldown Reduction Rating.

    Adjusting Intelligence stat does make it less attractive and is a middle finger (essentially) to those who stat INT to whatever degree.

    I would suggest simply keeping the Cooldown Reduction Rating fix and reverting Intelligence. That way INT is still a valuable stat to pick and those who use it aren't penalized for doing so.

    In other news: The responsiveness of Psi Lash being increased is a welcome change, as well as Wrist Bolter's change. Thank you.

  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    So, a bug: I picked a green health boost as grond. I got 1,955,280 hp back.

    Yeah, try allowing Sentinel Mastery to proc, you can really heal then LOL.

    I reckon that the health boost thingy is because we're still classed as players. I'm not sure if we spawn them but if you run over them you sure do benefit in a large way.
    Another bug:
    [Combat (Other)] MCPD Protector deals 6245037 (4920921) Fire Damage to AuraSonic 14 with an unknown ability.​​

    The excessive damage dealt by UNTIL Defenders and MCPD Protector Units, as far as I can tell is intended. They are designed to keep certain areas (like Ren Cen) safe.

    UNTIL Defenders however are easily defeatable, just make good use of range and take them out fast.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    A problem with the 'attack them and they can hit you' is that any use of area attacks may accidentally hit villains. This is particularly an issue if multiple people turn into villains in the same area, as several villains at once can be quite challenging.

    (Actually, looking at how this is implemented, attacking any supervillain lets them all hit you. Is that really intended?)​​
  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    So first day thoughts:

    1. Villain damage is underpowered. Gotta nerf players more so they can't just "typical pvp duel between tanks" the situation.


    2. Some villain mechanics are unclear. Need to give information about this in a quick fashion so we're not standing there going "wtf, how do I use this?" while players are pelting us. Primarily effects pink head and gravy - Grond is by far the easiest to understand and use.


    3. Villain travel powers seem limited, the duration should be longer, with a slightly longer cooldown to compensate. Super jump feels silly.


    4. Pink head is generally very awkward and feels like the least effective. Gravitar needs to build rage faster.


    5. Knock is really effective against the villains, but other CC isn't. I feel like I am once again being pushed to build entirely around knocks and ignore everything else.


    6. Small groups of players vs villain is an issue. Maybe give the villain a buff for every player that currently has them "tagged" that increases their defense. This way during those hours where not enough people are on to form a large group, heroes still have a chance ( not enough to severaly gimp the villain of course ). Naturally, apply the buff before any damage is dealt from a newly tagging hero. There should never be a "sorry, not enough people interested, villains have free reign" situation.


    7. Villains teaming up in large numbers could be an issue. Villains "accidentally" aoeing each other mitigates this somewhat, but it's still a slaughter fest once enough villains get together and there's not enough players to deal with them. Perhaps villains debuff each other via proximity in some way, reducing defense - tune it to really only matter once there are three or more villains.
  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    PS - the cooldown nerf is a good idea. Addresses a whole lot of problems that have been left to sit for far too long.

    Before this, on Kagami, I was >>>easily<<< able to reduce my cooldowns by OVER 50%! This did not involve stacking Int, the character has a modes 178 of that attribute - the cooldown reduction came entirely from gear. Now I'm looking at a slightly over 25% reduction to cooldowns, which seems much more reasonable. 25% is still a significant amount, considering that I'm not doing everything possible to reduce my cooldowns.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    While I was on for a short time this morning I wanted to mention a few things, When Gravitar used her Gravity well power the game lagged so much that my frame-rate was skipping and was virtually unplayable while maintaining it, best I can describe can you look into it please, another would be add a beacon to the minimap to track super Villains like a mug shot so you can follow, another thing is what is stopping players from screwing Melee builds by consistently moving? especially PvE builds that don't have NTTG, harder to follow if they use their TP's, that is all for now.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    The excessive damage dealt by UNTIL Defenders and MCPD Protector Units, as far as I can tell is intended. They are designed to keep certain areas (like Ren Cen) safe.

    UNTIL Defenders however are easily defeatable, just make good use of range and take them out fast.

    The damage on the MCPD guys is fine. They're a clear sign you need to stay away from Renaissance Center. The Defenders though? I gotta disagree that their damage is fine. Sure, it's easy to take them out if you take your time and keep them at range without resetting them when there's no one out trying to kill you. It's hard enough to hit 3 of the Onslaught Targets as it is now, what with the Villains being so slow, I can't imagine doing it with twenty people smacking me around and applying holds and stuff. And to then daintily snipe a Defender from a hundred feet away during all that? No, thanks. The Defenders need to do very little damage.​​
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Not only that, if were nerfing cooldown reduction from gear, that's one thing, but this is coming close to making INT into a trash stat. Keep INT cooldown reduction as is.

    I don't think the devs realize just HOW many powers theyre nerfing at the same time with a GLOBAL cooldown nerf. ANYTHING with a cooldown is affected by this, all at the SAME time, this is a dangerously excessive change.

    I think they realize it and it's the reason they chose this option.​​
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  • aurasonic12aurasonic12 Posts: 33 Arc User
    Going to be quite honest here the CD reduction did need to go SOMEWHAT. If i had to give an estimate on a possible fix make it halfway between what it is on the pts and live at the moment and try fine tuning it from there but shared cool down on Active offense and Def needs to go. In terms of onslaught however i enjoyed thoroughly enjoyed it grond is perfectly fine the way he is the others not so much a damage increase would be preferred for them in my opinion. As of the onslaught targets they are VERY hard to take out with there current damage out put. Other then that i'm excited that Champions online is once again getting the attention it deserves.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Okay, Gravitar's rage building mechanism is actually pretty easy to use (just build stacks, then use power 3), but the big problem with Gravitar is most of her mechanics are useless.
    Power 1 does about 1k raw dps and builds 1 stack per second. Useful enough.
    Power 2 is a 4k blast that takes 3s to use. Yeah, that's not going to hurt anyone.
    Power 3 can do a lot of damage -- if you detonate 15 stacks on someone with no other nearby attacks. I'd remove the reduced damage for multiple targets, then it would be okay.
    Power 4 I found entirely useless.
    Power 5 is a pretty fast way to build stacks on everyone in a huge area and does about 1k raw dps. The damage is irrelevant, but if stacks were useful it would be a useful power.
    Power 6 is actively detrimental -- it's a self-root that pulls people closer. On a ranged attacker. Never use it.
    Power 7 doesn't seem to work properly. It's supposed to detonate in a 40' radius, then chain and detonate in a 40' radius, until it runs out of people with stacks, but looking at logs, it's very unreliable about what it actually does (I hit one person ten times, which was probably not supposed to happen, and other people once or twice).​​
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  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Whoa, lay off the Jack Daniels...

    What a well-written, intelligent response that makes many good points for me to consider.

    Having considered them, I feel like I somehow disagree with you even more though.



    You can tell the cooldown nerf is sorely needed. Cooldown reduction has been out of control for so long that some people have gotten so used to it that they now believe it is actually necessary to leave it out of control for the game to be in a playable state! These people will quickly learn that the easily attainable massive cooldown reduction is just another crutch they never needed, and that their "interesting builds" will be just as interesting.. perhaps even more so.

    Nerfing just some powers specifically would seem terribly biased, especially since it's not just those few powers that are the issue. It is, in fact, the fact that we can so easily shrink cooldowns so far, far past their intended duration that is the problem. You are right about one thing, this affects a lot of powers... and that's the point, the problem was affecting a lot of powers, hence why the solution will have to do the same.

    You are wrong about one thing for sure.. and that's this strange notion you have that the devs don't know which powers cooldown reduction influences.


    PS - if mini-mines and TK wave are underpowered then maybe, gee I dunno, the solution is to buff them? How can the solution to those two specific problems be leaving the entire cooldown reduction system wildly out of control? Think about it.
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  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Cooldown heavy builds already suffer compared to maintain builds. we don't need more nerfing to that playstyle.

    I'm not sure how you can believe this. Especially considering that there's nothing stopping cooldown heavy builds from using maintains.

    Again, you're referencing an outside issue and somehow trying to tie it to this one. The fact that maintains are better needs to be looked at on its own. You can't let one problem go because it's propping up another one.

    The cooldown problem is a global problem, hence a global solution. It really is that simple. Cooldowns were intended to be a certain length... letting everybody, easily, shorten them by over 50% leads to several problems and zero benefits.

    I know you've gotten used to it, but it's going to be just like when they nerfed dodge - at first you have visions of being nerfed into the ground, dying constantly, and the need to reference Dark Souls. Then eventually you realize just how overpowered the previous setup was, and you realize the new setup actually opens up more possibilities than it closes off. I'm already seeing this on my cooldown heavy builds.


    If individual powers need to be buffed, then they will be looked at and buffed. They are not going to buff every single cooldown power in the game because when you make a balance adjustment you don't just go and undo it by balancing the game back in the other direction, because that just puts you back where you started.

    Fact is: We do not need to be as powerful as we currently are on live, and the massive, easily obtainable cooldown reduction is one of the major contributors to the excessive power level of players.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    I'm seeing more and more people are having issue with understanding Medusa, I think I'm going to make a post on how to use her lol
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    rtma wrote: »
    While I was on for a short time this morning I wanted to mention a few things, When Gravitar used her Gravity well power the game lagged so much that my frame-rate was skipping and was virtually unplayable while maintaining it, best I can describe can you look into it please, another would be add a beacon to the minimap to track super Villains like a mug shot so you can follow, another thing is what is stopping players from screwing Melee builds by consistently moving? especially PvE builds that don't have NTTG, harder to follow if they use their TP's, that is all for now.

    I have to agree here. Imagining this effect with more than the 25 odd players we had on PTS would be nauseating and even with just 25 people it was too much.

  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    Regarding Global Cooldowns:

    I feel as if the double reduction was excessive, both in INTELLIGENCE and Cooldown Reduction Gear. I would have been fine with this nerf being applied to Cooldown Reduction ONLY.

    But as with most things, players will adapt to the change and just block more.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    My ideal for any CDR changes would be to reduce the effectiveness of the type of build that does "take one or two high performance attacks and all the AO's, AD's, buffs and heals you can get", compared to a build that does not.
    A global CDR nerf is not doing that, that type of build is still the best performing by far, and now maybe even more since at least for AO you can just cycle 3. And the only reason that is not as easy for AD's is that there are only 2 with a 15 second duration that perform well for all builds, which can change with future additions.

    Since AD/AO are the biggest issues, I think the best way to go about this is to start with a full 30 seconds shared cooldown on AD/AO and only then look at what CDR does and how it needs to be changed. But with a 30 shared cooldown, any change that sets your AD/AO cooldown above 60 would still allow you to cycle one after the other without any diminishing return on their effectiveness.
    So ideally CDR would be changed to something that sets your CD per AD/AO between 60 and 37 seconds depending on gear and stats and such (60 for one impact mod and CDR utility gear, and 37 with all CDR gear and heavy stacking on INT and CDR specs). That would still make 2 AD/AO always better than 1 (not counting the performance differences between AO's), but on a strong diminishing return. Since that CD is a little higher then what is now easily possible, I do think a small-ish nerf or a diminishing return to CDR is in order.
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    The CDR change is dramatic and will have a big impact on players' builds. It really felt excessive to me, as the toon I was using on PTS had a lot of attack powers with cooldowns, and the gameplay felt slow and ineffective to me. My nominal cooldown values were being approximately doubled, so DPS on the character was probably almost halved.
    The change as-is will also make INT much less viable as a stat, which will again have a big impact on builds and gear choices. I would greatly prefer that these changes target the AO/AO powers more specifically, as others have mentioned.

    The Onslaught stuff seems really interesting, although I haven't had a chance to test it very much yet. In general, it's great to see the uptick in this kind of development activity. But I would say maybe one of the lessons from Steel Crusade launch should be not to risk overshadowing the goodwill from releasing new content by rolling out a dramatic and contentious set of nerfs at the same time.


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  • notyuunotyuu Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I can see that you're trying to fix the perma AD/AO issue by reducing the effectiveness of cooldown reduction from INT and gear...and I can tell you right now, all this is going to do is hamper players that use a lot of CD related powers, and barely slow down the AD/AO rotators.

    A better plan would be to make the shared CD that is on ADs and AOs be immune to CD reduction, making it "hard" as it were and have it so while the AD/AO is active the others are locked out, with the shared CD only starting when the power wears off, this would fix the perma AD/AO issue without screwing over every other power that has a cooldown.
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  • kitsunemaguskitsunemagus Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Okay, after testing the system a bit today, and weighing it in versus previous MMOs' endgame content of similar make that I've had the pleasure (or displeasure in some cases) of playing, I have these points to make -
    1. Firstly, as stated above by many others - the Onslaughts' damage, resistances to CC, etc. are grossly underpar versus what we are supposed to be. Even assuming Teleios is giving us "faulty devices" to test; I don't see them being THAT faulty.
    2. Second, either the cost of Villain token stuff needs to come down, or the rate of gain per kill needs to come up. In thirty minutes with no heroes interfering I only made 25 tokens for hitting five Onslaught targets as Gravitar.
    3. At the above rate, barring player interference, it will take (plus the 250 Villain tokens from the "Supervillain Attack" mish) 33 days for ONE piece of gear. Just one. Making that the lion's share of a year for the three-piece set. WoW's loot tables in raids are more generous; and you can only go into a raid dungeon once a week (they reset every week, not every day)!
    4. Guardian tokens are another issue, after the "Playing with the Devs" I had 1k tokens. 10% of unlocking a villain ... really? Come on, now. Lower that cost some so it's not a time-sink like Rampage loot-drops.
    5. Lastly, I'm not trying to rip on what can potentially be a great system; but it feels like 'blue-walling' is back in a new MMO sense. WoW vets will understand - Blue-walling is when you are PvP-flagged on a PvE server in WoW, and enemy faction players show up "blue", showing they are enemies, but not attackable. They see you as "yellow" meaning neutral and attackable. They attack first, giving you NO defense or recourse to really not fight. A crappy system lots of douchebags would abuse in WoW.

    In closing, given the current climate of RenCen in Live, the state of many players that hang out on 40's in RenCen, and the fact that the token gain is agonizingly slow; this gear and rewards system is, by my opinion from roughly 10+ years MMO experience "more trouble than it's worth".

    - Advice to players if this system remains unchanged? Don't waste the time. Elitist players and PvP-nutjobs will rip you down before you earn a single villain token.

    - Advice to the Devs to fix this so it's more fun and actually viable for the rewards? Buff the Onslaughts, lower those costs/up the token gain rate, and maybe ... just maybe ... make good on where this can go - give us Hudson City and actual VILLAIN Player Characters - Dark Champions is a setting in the world and DOES exist in Hudson ... heck ... the morality system from CoX could make an appearance there; letting us turn our good guys "bad" or "dirty them up" like Punisher, etc.
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Not only that, if were nerfing cooldown reduction from gear, that's one thing, but this is coming close to making INT into a trash stat. Keep INT cooldown reduction as is.

    Gradii, sorry but I really refuse to agree with you on this one. This change is really good in almost every way, it has a few problems but usually that's with individual powers and the benefits out weigh it.

    Let me just say that it certainly isn't a trash stat now, on my build I made for when the update I was running ego primary with int and con secondary using quarry on manipulator eldritch blast sonic device. I have around 500 int on the build and I'll tell you what, I do great with it.

    This change also made recovery more viable as a PSS, and made conviction less stupid while nerfing stupid bursts like SS/UR / SR... For me this change has opened up many more builds that previously were not viable. It's a good step the right direction and a change that was needed for years, happy it has finally been done.

    When I was talking to you about the Active's shared CD's I only said that because I didn't expect them to finally get around to changing how the CD reduction stat // int themselves work. It's a shock, yes. But you'll get used to it when you actually start playing around with builds like me and a few others were the other day.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,194 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2015
    aiqa wrote: »
    -

    People are focusing on AO/AD rotation, but CDR was doing a lot more damage than just that. It was impossible to judge a power's output based on its cooldown, since you could just shave it off by such a ridiculous amount that it didn't matter. That isn't the case as much anymore, and now powers can be looked at and balanced accordingly based on their cooldown.

    Unless AO/AD global cooldown is increased to such a degree that it's only viable to run one, it will always be advantageous to run multiples. This has been true in CO since launch when CD reduction wasn't completely out of whack.

    With the 1:30 cooldown AO's and AD's have, it's safe to assume that they were intended to be burst powers, temporarily increasing your output for a short duration, not something you use as a crutch. This was likely a lot more balanced back when CO had a much smaller power tray (8-10 powers if I recall?) so you had to make some decisions on what powers to carry, but that was increased leaving a lot of room for these globally enhancing abilities.

    Back at launch we could have as many Energy Unlocks as we wanted, but that was changed later on as with the introduction of MSA as there was no reason not to run multiple energy unlocks with the existence of that power. Perhaps the change we're looking for regarding AO/ADs is limiting the number of them a build can hold. However, this is not an ideal solution either since you may want to run multiples for different situations.

    It's a tricky bag for sure but I think the cd reduction change was a step in the right direction.​​
  • edited August 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    aiqa wrote: »
    -
    -​​

    I agree CDR needed some attention but this just feels a little heavyhanded, I would have preferred something like a diminishing return on CDR.
    One of the problems I am seeing with this big nerf is tanking Frosticus, when using my LR build and being held by an Ice Prison I need MD to stop being oneshotted by his Ice Dagger. Pre-nerf MD is always up before he applies another one, but if the MD cooldown suddenly takes 25 seconds longer that will not work, which effectively means I will not be using that build for F&I.

    I don't think AD/AO needs to be restricted to one per build, just having the shared cooldown significantly higher than half the individual cooldown would be enough.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,194 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2015
    Kicking off my evaluation with...

    Medusa
    6% damage reduction to all attacks.
    3% Crit chance


    Mind Spikes
    Passive
    Description: A close range telekinetic fighter, Medusa drains energy from foes she strikes as well as slowing their charge speed and reducing their energy equilibriums for 6 seconds. The more times she strikes a particular foe, the more severe this effect becomes, stunning them for 6 seconds when it reaches 10 stacks. When she stuns a foe this way, she unlocks a new power.

    Mind Spikes
    Debuff
    Duration: 10 seconds
    Description: Charge Speed and Energy Equilibrium being reduced for each additional stack applied to you.
    Other things to note: One this hits 10 stacks, applying a new stack will no longer refresh them.

    TK Flurry
    Range: 10 feet
    Activation Time: 0.5 seconds
    Damage Variance: 672 - 896
    Description: Deals 708 Ego Damage. Every other strike applies Mind Spikes to the target.

    TK Breaker
    Range: 20 feet, 120 Degree Cone
    Activation Time: 0.67 seconds
    Recharge Time: 6 seconds
    Damage Variance: 3,861-4,249
    Description: 4,048 Ego damage. Applies Mind Spikes to target.

    TK Spear
    Range: 250 feet, 15 foot sphere
    Charge Time: 0.5 seconds
    Activation Time: 0.5 seconds
    Recharge Time: 9 seconds
    Damage Variance: 7,702 - 9,559
    Description: Throw a spear of mental energy at target foe, pinning all foes within 15' to their current location for 4 seconds. This root cannot be resisted. Applies two stacks of Mind Spikes to all foes affected.

    TK Shatter
    Range: 200 feet
    Charge Time: 1.5 seconds
    Activation Time: 0.67 seconds
    Recharge Time: 22 seconds
    Damage Variance: 3,856 - 4,245
    Description: After a short charge you shatter your foe's mind, dealing damage and doubling the number of stacks of Mind Spikes the target has (Max 10)

    TK Wave
    Range: 120 foot sphere
    Charge Time: 0.5 seconds
    Activation Time: 1 second
    Recharge Time: 40 seconds
    Damage Variance: 7,699 - 9,832
    Description: Unlocks at 2 stuns - Unleash a wave of mental energy, damaging all foes and draining all of their energy while temporarily leaving their equilibrium at zero for 3 seconds. Applies Mind Spikes.

    TK Lunge
    Range:60 foot lunge
    Activation Time: 0.67 seconds
    Recharge Time: 14 seconds
    Damage Variance: 3,851 - 4,248
    Description: Unlocks at 4 stuns - Charge toward your foe, applying Mind Spikes and instantly recharging TK Breaker.

    TK Eruption
    Range: 120 foot sphere
    Charge Time: 1.5 seconds
    Activation Time: 0.5 seconds
    Recharge Time: 60 seconds
    Damage Variance: 22,538 - 23,361 (10 stacks) | 6,000 (no stacks)
    Description: Unlocks at 5 stuns - Unleash a brutal wave of energy. This power deals more damage for each stack of Mind Spikes on each affected target.



    Thoughts: Not well tailored for group combat. The idea here is to build up Mind Spike stacks and rupture them with TK Eruption for a massive hit. But that's not going to happen. Mind Spike stops refreshing after 10 stacks and outside of TK Wave (which has a monstrous cooldown), none of the other abilities are capable of applying Mind Spike in a wide enough area. TK Breaker's range limits you to melee players, and unless a bunch of ranged players are grouping up you're going to hit 1-2 targets at most with TK Spear.

    Medusa is range fodder, she has nothing to stop flyers and nothing to pressure range with.





    Suggestions:
    Overall increase the damage output of Medusa, she's not killing anyone who's figured out where their block button is.

    Passive: Should have a 20% chance to apply Mind Spike to foes attacking Medusa from beyond 20 feet.
    Should have a 20% chance to apply Mind Spike to foes whenever they directly heal an involved player (cannot apply more than once every 1 second).
    Reason: This will assist her when dealing with ranged characters as well as healers.

    Mind Spike Debuff: Applying a new stack refreshes all stacks, even once it hits 10 stacks.
    Reason: Not refreshing at ten stacks makes it nigh impossible to get multiple people at cap stacks.

    TK Flurry: Change to a 20ft sphere or 20ft 120 degree cone.
    Reason: She needs to be able to apply more pressure to people. Single target won't cut it.

    TK Breaker: Lower Cooldown to 2-3 seconds. Give increased damage versus players below 30% health. If a player blocks the hit, their block is now disabled for 5 seconds.
    Reason: Gives her an opening on tankier players and a way to finish off players at low health.

    TK Spear: Increase sphere to 40ft. Apply -travel.
    Reason: Needs a greater sphere to hit more than one ranged player.

    TK Shatter: Add a chain effect. If the player shattered is within 20 ft of another player, the Mind Spikes effect will double on that player. This will continue to chain from player to player until there is no one within 20ft.
    Reason: Makes players think a little more about positioning and gives Medusa a better way to apply Mind Spikes.

    TK Wave: Apply -travel. Reduces the effectiveness of block by 50% for 5 seconds.
    Reason: This now acts as a setup for TK Eruption.

    TK Lunge: The target you lunge at now decreases the cooldowns on all your abilities based on how many stacks of Mind Spike they have.
    Reason: Rewards the player for keeping tabs on how many Mind Spike stacks their target has.

    TK Eruption: Apply -travel. Removes all stacks of Mind Spike.
    Reason: -Travel is there so she can finish off players who survived.


    Edit: Added reasoning/changed some values​​
    Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
  • dicesnakedicesnake Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Nobody will be doing frosticus because all rampages and Justice gear has just been made irrelevant. Again...not thinking things through on their behalf.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    Don't forget that there won't just be ONE Medusa/Grond/Gravitar roaming around at any one time. There will be several, so the only thing Medusa really needs is a way to bring Ranged Players down to earth, by using a special NTTG either on her lunge or on TK Wave. Based on the description and workings of TK Wave...NTTG would work best there.

    I do agree with this suggestion:
    Passive: Should have a 20% chance to apply Mind Spike to foes attacking Medusa from beyond 20 feet. Should have a 20% chance to apply Mind Spike to foes whenever they directly heal an involved player (cannot apply more than once every 4 seconds).

    But bearing in mind that it won't just be one Medusa to a group, the values would need to be toned down.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,194 Cryptic Developer
    Don't forget that there won't just be ONE Medusa/Grond/Gravitar roaming around at any one time. There will be several, so the only thing Medusa really needs is a way to bring Ranged Players down to earth, by using a special NTTG either on her lunge or on TK Wave. Based on the description and workings of TK Wave...NTTG would work best there.

    She should be balanced assuming there is one. While it may be true during the first couple weeks there will likely be a bunch roaming around, that will not always be the case. Multiples just mean more chaos and villains damaging each other.​​
  • notyuunotyuu Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    1: The costs of the stuff in the onslaught store are too high, combined with the low earn rate and more over...what are the onslaught tokens for? the gear is purshaced with villan tokens, and the becomes are with guardian tokens....so what are the onslaught tokens for?

    2: The gear set from said onslaught store is almost a direct upgrade from justice gear, if it wasn't for the fact that the gloves lack stat bonuses outside of +def, it would be a 100% direct upgrade from justice gear, I suggest that you take a long hard look into changing them up to be more of a sidegrade, rather than a near upgrade.

    3: While CD reduction is an issue, just outright going at the problem with the nerf hammer is going to ultimately cause more harm than good, so with that in mind, I suggest that you strongly think about implementing the following rather than just nerfing the CD reduction in its entireity.

    3a: Shared CD triggered by the likes of AO and AD are immune to CD reduction and only start ticking down once the AD/AO is no longer in effect on you.

    3b: Add earlier diminishing returns on CD reduction rather than out-rightly reducing its strength, as while CD reduction currently has deminishing returns, they don't kick in until you've gotten something close to 75% CD reduction....and even then they are not very strong, make them hit earlier and a little harder.
    In all things, a calm heart must prevail.

    Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.

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    Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
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