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Why the Automaton hate?

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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jennymachx wrote: »
    A silver player can have different character concepts and backgrounds on several toons, just with a set list of ATs to choose from. The same type of AT might apply to a couple of these concepts, especially if certain powers found in the AT fit more than one concept and background.

    It's not dumb if you put some objective thought into it.
    To understand that POV, however, requires that one think of a character as more than (to steal a phrase from the 3rd Edition rulebook) "a pile of points that indicate you can pick up a car, bite off the tires, and throw the rest a country mile".

    Which I gather isn't something Spinny's really into.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    Which I gather isn't something Spinny's really into.

    And you would be wrong (but I'm sure you're used to your assumptions about me being wrong by this point, ey Jon? ~.^ )

    Honestly, when I think of people who have multiple characters with the exact same build, or nearly the exact same build... I think of PvPers. You know, the ones who have 95% of the "best pvp build" on every one of their characters, and then swap in a different damage power and claim it's unique?



    See, I like to actually make all my characters unique, and to me the build is just as important as the story in that respect, so with each character I do my best to make them their own special snowflake. I guess some people take the lazy route and say "Whatever I'll just use the same build I know works well and dominates the content and then slap a new story on it"... and that is definitely something I'm not into. I don't even like using the same power on multiple characters.


    I'm guessing this is something subscribers are into. Can't think of a new build, so just use the same one with a different costume. No motivation to really make a unique character since you have plenty of slots to make slight variations with, over and over and over....

    I do.


    akaldjjflssj

    Is this how those people with 100+ characters managed to "think up builds" for all those characters? ~.^
  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    And with that school of thought comes MY school of thought:

    "hmm.. how can I make people scratch their heads at how dumb my stuff is but STILL be somewhat effective?"
    AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    And you would be wrong (but I'm sure you're used to your assumptions about me being wrong by this point, ey Jon? ~.^ )

    Honestly, when I think of people who have multiple characters with the exact same build, or nearly the exact same build... I think of PvPers. You know, the ones who have 95% of the "best pvp build" on every one of their characters, and then swap in a different damage power and claim it's unique?



    See, I like to actually make all my characters unique, and to me the build is just as important as the story in that respect, so with each character I do my best to make them their own special snowflake. I guess some people take the lazy route and say "Whatever I'll just use the same build I know works well and dominates the content and then slap a new story on it"... and that is definitely something I'm not into. I don't even like using the same power on multiple characters.


    I'm guessing this is something subscribers are into. Can't think of a new build, so just use the same one with a different costume. No motivation to really make a unique character since you have plenty of slots to make slight variations with, over and over and over....

    I'm definitely not a PVPer, and also don't look up effective builds or try to make super powerful builds.
    Is this how those people with 100+ characters managed to "think up builds" for all those characters? ~.^

    It's not about "thinking up builds" (pile of points?), it's about thinking up characters and assigning the powers that are appropriate for them. I happen to like big, stupid superstrength heroes. I end up using Might a lot. Maybe I'll use a different passive on one guy, other times I end up with the same build as another, but why worry about it? It's the character I wanna play as, not their character sheet.

    When I get an idea for a superhero, its not "ooh these powers look great, I should make a character around that!" Instead it's "Hey I just had a stupid idea for a superhero, let's play!" The build just evolves based on what works for the character. And yes, I often play with crappy, no-synergy, whatever builds.

    For the record, yeah, I'm at about 80 characters now.
    biffsig.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Captain Americlown is a Soldier. Major Cleavage is a Soldier. I'm thinking about converting Gunrunner into a Soldier, because the idea I had for him at first isn't working out as he advances (not enough pistol-based powers).

    The three characters are nothing alike, save in powersets. Captain Americlown is a parody-take on a more famous Capt. A; Major Cleavage came from an online discussion, but evolved as someone who uses her - ah - developments to her advantage, to distract her opponents (but that actually is her name - Maj. Andrea Cleavage, USMC, Ret.); Gunrunner grew up in Westside, joined the Army, came back to find his hood worse than ever, and voluntarily subjected himself to an enhancement procedure so he can try to use his one major skill, his talent for shooting things, to fight crime.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    That's just dumb. Do you have multiple free forms with the exact same build too?

    yes, Smurfer dude and Smurfer Dudette
    Melinda and Patience, different weapon skins.

    Repeat after me;

    Everybody is different. Everybody has different ideas of fun.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    When I get an idea for a superhero, its not "ooh these powers look great, I should make a character around that!" Instead it's "Hey I just had a stupid idea for a superhero, let's play!" The build just evolves based on what works for the character. And yes, I often play with crappy, no-synergy, whatever builds.

    For the record, yeah, I'm at about 80 characters now.
    jonsills wrote: »
    Captain Americlown is a Soldier. Major Cleavage is a Soldier. I'm thinking about converting Gunrunner into a Soldier, because the idea I had for him at first isn't working out as he advances (not enough pistol-based powers).

    The three characters are nothing alike, save in powersets. Captain Americlown is a parody-take on a more famous Capt. A; Major Cleavage came from an online discussion, but evolved as someone who uses her - ah - developments to her advantage, to distract her opponents (but that actually is her name - Maj. Andrea Cleavage, USMC, Ret.); Gunrunner grew up in Westside, joined the Army, came back to find his hood worse than ever, and voluntarily subjected himself to an enhancement procedure so he can try to use his one major skill, his talent for shooting things, to fight crime.



    Pro-tip: Costume slots ~.^


    Jon cannot use this pro-tip because he's a pervert.

    Honestly... you guys seem really shallow to me right now u3u

    chaelk wrote: »
    yes, Smurfer dude and Smurfer Dudette
    Melinda and Patience, different weapon skins.

    Repeat after me;

    Everybody is different. Everybody has different ideas of fun.

    Why tell me this? I think you're fighting a battle with a phantom enemy here.
  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Why tell me this? I think you're fighting a battle with a phantom enemy here.

    I am the Shadow, THE TRUE SELF!

    Shadow_Teddie_in_Persona_4_The_Animation.jpg
    AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    you said why would anyone level an AT twice?
    chaelk wrote: »
    scourge 3 times, specialist 3 times, soldier 2, lightning lost count, wind 2 times,mind 3 times,
    sorry what was the question?
    spinnytop wrote: »
    That's just dumb. Do you have multiple free forms with the exact same build too?
    chaelk wrote: »
    yes, Smurfer dude and Smurfer Dudette
    Melinda and Patience, different weapon skins.

    Repeat after me;

    Everybody is different. Everybody has different ideas of fun.

    [/QUOTE]Pro-tip: Costume slots ~.^


    Jon cannot use this pro-tip because he's a pervert.

    Honestly... you guys seem really shallow to me right now u3u[/QUOTE]



    [/QUOTE]yes, Smurfer dude and Smurfer Dudette
    Melinda and Patience, different weapon skins.

    Repeat after me;

    Everybody is different. Everybody has different ideas of fun.[/QUOTE]
    [/QUOTE]Why tell me this? I think you're fighting a battle with a phantom enemy here.[/QUOTE]
    you are calling people names because they don't do their characters or view their characters the same way you do.
    I remember you saying that all melee are the same, all ranged are the same -from your point of veiw
    as I pointed out , everybody is different.

    why those 2 pairs have the same,
    The Smurfers were meant to be a pair , 1 male and 1 female. costume won't work there.
    Patience I did after Melinda and knew Melinda's build worked ok, so I used that but with a different weapon.

    Most of mine, get their powers either thought up when I create them or as I go.

    and Just remembered it was Emily and Patience.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Pro-tip: Costume slots ~.^

    ...

    Honestly... you guys seem really shallow to me right now u3u

    Costume slots don't change your name or gender. You seem to have a weird concept of what a character is.

    And you've confused me here. I'm really shallow because I prefer to make a new character and not just pretend to do it with a costume slot? You seem to really be reaching for an argument here. There's nothing you can tell me that's going to convince me that what I'm doing is in any way wrong.
    biffsig.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Costume slots don't change your name or gender. You seem to have a weird concept of what a character is.

    And you've confused me here. I'm really shallow because I prefer to make a new character and not just pretend to do it with a costume slot? You seem to really be reaching for an argument here. There's nothing you can tell me that's going to convince me that what I'm doing is in any way wrong.
    Yeah, that's the "argument" that convinced me Spinny's just trolling again. He does that a lot.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    You seem to really be reaching for an argument here.

    Reed Richards thinks Spinny's reaching for an argument here.

    Spinny, yinz wanna play with your spreadsheets? Fine. Some of us got stories to tell.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Besides, just because you have the same powers (and some of those can be changed), doesn't mean you have the same build. You can have a glass cannon on one and someone who likes to mix it up in close on another, for example.
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    chaelk wrote: »
    you said why would anyone level an AT twice?






    Pro-tip: Costume slots ~.^


    Jon cannot use this pro-tip because he's a pervert.

    Honestly... you guys seem really shallow to me right now u3u[/QUOTE]



    [/QUOTE]yes, Smurfer dude and Smurfer Dudette
    Melinda and Patience, different weapon skins.

    Repeat after me;

    Everybody is different. Everybody has different ideas of fun.[/QUOTE]
    [/QUOTE]Why tell me this? I think you're fighting a battle with a phantom enemy here.[/QUOTE]
    you are calling people names because they don't do their characters or view their characters the same way you do.
    I remember you saying that all melee are the same, all ranged are the same -from your point of veiw
    as I pointed out , everybody is different.

    why those 2 pairs have the same,
    The Smurfers were meant to be a pair , 1 male and 1 female. costume won't work there.
    Patience I did after Melinda and knew Melinda's build worked ok, so I used that but with a different weapon.

    Most of mine, get their powers either thought up when I create them or as I go.

    and Just remembered it was Emily and Patience.[/QUOTE]


    Now you're making stuff up. I never said any of that.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Costume slots don't change your name or gender. You seem to have a weird concept of what a character is.

    And you've confused me here. I'm really shallow because I prefer to make a new character and not just pretend to do it with a costume slot? You seem to really be reaching for an argument here. There's nothing you can tell me that's going to convince me that what I'm doing is in any way wrong.

    I'm not trying to convince you that what you're doing is wrong. It baffles me that you came to that conclusion. It's almost like you're trying to make up a big argument where you can righteously defend your ways...

    Unfortunately for you, I don't really care what you do, since it doesn't affect me. However, I'm still allowed to have an opinion despite that. I know, that's a shakey concept for some people around here.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Reed Richards thinks Spinny's reaching for an argument here.

    Spinny, yinz wanna play with your spreadsheets? Fine. Some of us got stories to tell.

    Spreadsheets? ...I don't understand what that means.

    Oh, are you trying to accuse me of being a min-maxer? Let me introduce you to the real world uwu I'm too good at this game to need min-maxing.
  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    This is me right now. Just with a jewish nose and not a beard.

    Vlog-5-6-14-Amazing-Spider-Man-2-Custom.jpg
    AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I'm not trying to convince you that what you're doing is wrong. It baffles me that you came to that conclusion. It's almost like you're trying to make up a big argument where you can righteously defend your ways...

    Oh this again. :rolleyes: Honestly, you're the one arguing here, saying that the way people play is dumb. How you don't expect to have people continue the discussion is beyond me. Acting like people are "making up arguments" when they simply reply to what you say is completely ridiculous.

    Okay, you didn't say "wrong" but "dumb." I did say "wrong in any way." You couldn't possibly mean that leveling two of the same archetypes is dumb but also right, could you?

    And the only reason I'm "defending" the way I play (really, I'm just explaining to you why I do it, since your assumption was totally off-base (reusing builds that "dominate the content") is because you keep coming back and telling me I should be doing it differently. (Just use costume slots!)

    (And really, you think I never thought of just using a different costume to pretend to be a different character? Come on, not much of a "pro tip" there. Did it not occur to you that maybe, the way I did it seemed like a better choice to me? How much time and/or money have you spent on Freeform slots? Protip: just get one and retcon new builds into it. You can't play more than one character at a time, right, so don't be silly and buy multiple slots and level multiple characters! Winky wink!)

    Unfortunately for you, I don't really care what you do, since it doesn't affect me. However, I'm still allowed to have an opinion despite that. I know, that's a shakey concept for some people around here.

    You care enough to make sure to tell us that we're doing something stupid. If you really don't care, don't open your mouth up about the subject. If you really don't care how other people play, then you wouldn't comment on it. If you care enough to tell them they're wrong or dumb or whatever, expect people to reply to you, and don't get all self-righteous when they do.
    biffsig.jpg
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop disingenuous is legion:

    I'm not trying to convince you that what you're doing is wrong. It baffles me that you came to that conclusion. It's almost like you're trying to make up a big argument where you can righteously defend your ways...

    It MAY have had something with you telling people leveling the same AT more than once was, and I quote, "dumb".

    I can't be POSITIVE mind you... :cool:

    EDIT: Ah, biff already clued ya. :wink:
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    This is me right now. Just with a jewish nose and not a beard.

    Vlog-5-6-14-Amazing-Spider-Man-2-Custom.jpg

    Why does that guy look familiar... is that James Hetfield? u3u
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Oh this again. :rolleyes: Honestly, you're the one arguing here, saying that the way people play is dumb. How you don't expect to have people continue the discussion is beyond me. Acting like people are "making up arguments" when they simply reply to what you say is completely ridiculous.

    Okay, you didn't say "wrong" but "dumb." I did say "wrong in any way." You couldn't possibly mean that leveling two of the same archetypes is dumb but also right, could you?

    And the only reason I'm "defending" the way I play (really, I'm just explaining to you why I do it, since your assumption was totally off-base (reusing builds that "dominate the content") is because you keep coming back and telling me I should be doing it differently. (Just use costume slots!)

    (And really, you think I never thought of just using a different costume to pretend to be a different character? Come on, not much of a "pro tip" there. Did it not occur to you that maybe, the way I did it seemed like a better choice to me? How much time and/or money have you spent on Freeform slots? Protip: just get one and retcon new builds into it. You can't play more than one character at a time, right, so don't be silly and buy multiple slots and level multiple characters! Winky wink!)




    You care enough to make sure to tell us that we're doing something stupid. If you really don't care, don't open your mouth up about the subject. If you really don't care how other people play, then you wouldn't comment on it. If you care enough to tell them they're wrong or dumb or whatever, expect people to reply to you, and don't get all self-righteous when they do.

    Yes, I care enough to give my opinion, but not enough to argue with you about why you should have the same opinion. Nice essay, I'm sure you really solidified your position for yourself. I still think it's dumb though... is that okay? :3
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Yeah Spinny, you're allowed to have an opinion, like practically everyone else in the whole wide flippin' world. Whoop-dee-doo.

    Newsflash: No one's shutting you down from having an opinion; only that you presented it in a bigoted and insulting manner. When enough logical reasoning has been outlined from various people to show that it's not dumb, your reply was to call them "really shallow". You don't care to look at their opinions objectively and dismiss them in such an insulting manner and yet you want to assert that you have the right to your opinion and it should be accepted regardless?

    In fact that "shallow' comment was laughably ironic, considering you dismissing it outright as "dumb" without obviously putting much thought into it, other than to incitie a negative reaction, pretty much comes of as shallow.

    But hey, as long as you're entitled to your opinion, who cares right?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jennymachx wrote: »
    But hey, as long as you're entitled to your opinion, who cares right?

    You apparently. :P
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Because the build comes 2nd to the character and there is only so much space to write a bio.
    Creative people want to create characters...that means unique names and stories to go along with those characters. For some a fresh costume just doesn't cut it. It isn't even just roleplayers, it is about immersion.












    PS: If you disagree with me you are a dumb!
    (yam eye doonit rite?)
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    Because the build comes 2nd to the character and there is only so much space to write a bio.
    Creative people want to create characters...that means unique names and stories to go along with those characters. For some a fresh costume just doesn't cut it. It isn't even just roleplayers, it is about immersion.

    That's my line of thought in table top games. There, the story matters, because it determines everything your character will ever do throughout the course of the game.


    In CO though? There's no reason to write out a big well thought out bio... it doesn't make a difference. Even if someone says "nice bio" ...so what. On the other hand, I get ridiculous mileage out of a really cool, really fun build, because that's something I'll actually be using. That's why, to me, multiple characters with the same build is pointless... why would I switch characters just to do the same thing, or a slight variation?

    Bios in this game to me are like those t-shirts that have a bunch of stuff written on them. Like neat, you have a bunch of words that won't ever have any real bearing on what happens. Immersion? While reading your bio? I feel immersion when I have a build with some character to it. Sure, other people may not be able to do it; to them it's just a "pile of points". I put thought into my builds though, I try to create something interesting, that does something. My character is expressed in my build and how I use it... not by some stuff I typed in a window with a button on it.

    For me, the build doesn't come 2nd to the character... the build is the character. Super Heroes are what they do, not the stories they tell*.



    * - go ahead, tell me about "Super Storytelling Man" the cosmic traveler who's power it is to tell stories.
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    icnsig.png
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 933 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The automaton's form is what irks me the most. AoTM or whatever. Stacking on kill means that you can't hold stacks during a schwack of boss fights. I had higher hopes for a ranged/melee hybrid form, but I would never bother using this form on a freeform hero.

    Do the game designers actually read comics? There are so many heroes that blast you from a distance and then work you with their fists up close and personal... the segregation makes no thematic or mechanical sense. I mean sure, reward heroes that choose a purely melee route, but don't punish a ranged hero for throwing in some melee moves!

    I'm sure that sentiment has been repeated ad-naueam, but I jus had ta.
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop asked for it:

    Yes, I care enough to give my opinion, but not enough to argue with you about why you should have the same opinion. Nice essay, I'm sure you really solidified your position for yourself. I still think it's dumb though... is that okay? :3

    There's only one possible answer to that.

    Your FACE is dumb! :biggrin:
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    There's only one possible answer to that.

    Your FACE is dumb! :biggrin:

    ur face is the thing you said u3u
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    my Rp
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

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  • edited February 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It's free. Nothing to complain about.

    You say that around here you gonna get yelled at :|
  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You say that around here you gonna get yelled at :|

    Know what else is free?

    Herpes.

    Know what people with herpes do?

    Complain about it.
    AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Okay, this one's gone so far off the rails. Closed.
    biffsig.jpg
This discussion has been closed.