Why the Automaton hate?

cryptickalidor

Granted, he's a little squishy solo, but I didn't have any problems levelling him to 40. The chest beam alone is massively over powered in my build and on a team he is a beast.

But, from what I've seen and read, not everyone shares my experiences with him, so what negatives are you finding with the build?

Pros: Super, stupidly power primary attack

Cons: The 'power armor' specific powers don't provide any synergy to the build, making things like the healing circuits ability all but useless.

riltmos

It's mostly because Automaton is just poorly built in general, lack of any good AoE, defense, or healing really hurt it. It also uses a very subpar passive and form. All of this together makes automaton poor in both defense and offense, and it doesn't really have much utility either. All in all, it feels like playing a heavily watered down Soldier or Invincible. And let's not compare it to freeforms, as I can go on all day how powerful they can be compared to an automaton.

zamuelpwe

I like mine but from what I saw in various discussion, it's a combination of redundancy and poor synergy. You mostly don't need both Rocket Fist and Power Bolts. Overdrive synergizes poorly since there's only two toggles/maintains and one is optional. Many outright hate Aspect of the Machine since it's harder to get the killing blow in team content.

The other issue is that the devs did a downright terrible job of communication so no one testing knew what the goal was that they were aiming for outside of a vague "killer robot".

sistersilicon

Let's see if I can remember all the complaints:

1: On PTS and for the first few days on production, a bug in Aspect of The Machine caused its activation cost to tick once per second until you hit zero energy, at which point it would un-toggle.

2: Rocket Punch uses a generic model, not your right arm costume part(s).

3: The lack of synergy in the Automaton AT's power selection. Take it from somebody whose commitment to theme has created a slightly sub-optimal Power Armor main: CN's commitment to theme has created a not-even-close-to-optimal Power Armor AT.

4: Forcing players to level an Automaton AT to 40 to unlock AoTM and RP for freeform use.

5: AoTM's stacking mechanic, which only procs on killing blows. Most people think it's useless, but I think it's just narrowly focused on solo leveling outside of alerts. I think CN's intent is for players to use AoTM to race freeforms to 40, then retcon into a form better suited to team content like alerts, lairs, and rampages.

Did I miss anything?

flyingfinn

Cos i'm requiered to play that gob****e to gain some powers that they could have just add to the allready existing ones.
I'm at lvl 32.
And i believe that this is the 1st and last of its kind we see.


Merry christmas and happy new year!

biffsmackwell

I'm pretty casual when it comes to this game, so I'm not used to using overly-synergized and optimal builds. I build characters for fun. When building becomes tedious and my character feels like a heap of random powers wrapped up in tights, that's when I lose interest.

So that said, I found the Automaton to be pretty fun for a couple of reasons. Rocket Fist had me constantly positioning myself to try to get as many NPCs in a single shot as possible. I do this on other characters too, but it felt much more important to the Automaton, since the cylinder AoE was much smaller. It kinda made you work for it, but for how quickly a character can get around, it didn't feel like a chore.

One thing I figured out late (or maybe because I had a two month break from the character) was that you couldn't build energy while using Reconstruction Circuits, so I couldn't just have it up all the time. While I first thought this was stupid, I realized that I can pop it and Ego Surge just before attacking, while my Energy is full, then blast away with Rocket Fist until Energy is depleted. Them toggle Reconstruction Circuits off, build Energy (which takes like one second due to having high Recovery) then flip on the Reconstruction Circuits back on and blast away with Rocket Fist again, popping Ego Surge when necessary/available.

All this stuff together made it feel like a very active and fun play style. I found Energy Wave to be a great AoE, as well as Chainsaw. But unfortunately, and my biggest complaint, was that you don't get enough Energy ever for a full maintain of Chainsaw (at least not while using Nemesis Gear).

Would I play another one like this? Maybe as a Freeform, with slightly different Superstats and Specializations, but I don't regret having to play one to unlock its powers, at all.

guyhumual

I leveled one from level 6 to 40 when it first came out. I didn't mind it.

flowcyto

Aside from the quite inefficient build, it under-performs as a squishy dps, esp compared to most other dps ATs. It does get a heal to help compensate, but that's at the cost of a block enhancer, and the heal itself isn't too potent w/o extra bonus heal (and requires some extra micro-management). It's also partly 'saved' by having Con SS, but even w/ that and a (not thematic at all) Ego Surge/NM, it still ends up being rather mediocre as an AT.

I imagine players wouldn't have disliked it as much if it was not as hyped up beforehand, if the devs communicated their intent w/ the AT's build more, and if leveling it wasn't 'forced' for the new power unlocks. Also consider the missed opportunity of fixing and updating TC as a passive, and giving AT-users a better taste of PA's potential for dps than the Invincible could provide. The AT itself isn't really bad, per se, but CO's PvE content does set a really low bar as well..

jonsills

What really makes Rocket Fist for me, besides the challenge of getting the perfect shot lined up, is the Advantage that sends targets flying like ninepins. That's fun.

chaelk

what I didn't like:
blast attack, second blast attack, third blast attack.

form which only gets set off on kills(this is after it was fixed on PTS)

energy unlock which you have to use either your ONE melee attack(on an EGO build) or a lockout heal to activate.

what I liked about it;

.................

it' stuck at level 14. I swapped a crappy 40 for a crappier 40 to unlock to see whether it is any better at 40. Running alerts with it was.... 'fun'

zedbrightlander1

Leveling an Automaton AT to 40 is not a huge burden, for me anyway. When I was still Gold and experimenting with some of the Gold Arches, I had no problem deleting one of those guys the moment I leveled to 40 because it meant getting a bonus Character slot and a chance to use a new costume/hero.

I think I started and deleted a hero three times before I decided I liked/loved the Tempest enough to keep one. Only needed to level one hero before I decided that I loved the Squall. The Mountain would have been tried next.

spinnytop

People hate it because it's an archetype, instead of a min-maxed freeform character that just happens to be labeled an archetype.

roughbearmattach

Leveling wasn't the problem for me. It's easy to level up in CO.

The archetype was simply badly built, and most PTS feedback was ignored.

crypticbuxom

Its a testament to how CN doesn't know what they are doing.

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chaelk

at's levelled to 40 - Scourge/cursed, Master, Grimoire, Mind,Disciple,Tempest,Marksman,void,Blade, Night Avenger , Fist, soldier(that's the ones I didn't add heals to after 40)
in transit. Glacier, devastator(HW),Savage, Invincible, Inventor, Impulse, Wind, Mountain, Specialist, Radiant,Automaton,Inferno,
Guess which is stuck at the lowest level?
what was that about hating archetypes?

riverocean

I'm starting to like the AT a little more than I did before. It's got great DPS potential. Also Biffsmackwell's advice about popping Ego Surge, and then running RC, while blasting is actually pretty good. That seemed to help quite a bit.

However, the AT still has energy management issues. But I did manage to get to level 39 on my Automaton. I converted an old level 20 to the AT and went from there.

Another thing I noticed.. when I stopped spamming Rocket Fist and relied more on Chest Beam and Power Gauntlet - things got a lot easier.

decorumfriends

The only problem I have with the Automaton at all is other people playing them (and it's not limited to the Automaton, I'm afraid). Folks, PLEASE "knock them into a wall, not down the hall"!

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spinnytop

bluegrassbeast wrote: »

Yeah, I do hate ATs.I paid a LTS to not have to put up with them. Your point, Spinny?

You actually got a bunch of ATs along with that LTS though. If you hate em so much why you shellin' out dough to buy em all? Whoops?


If you can't handle the "challenge" then you don't get the rewards. I think it's funny that CN finally thought up a challenge that the big bad FF players can't handle..... "level an archetype to 40" xD



Personally I think the automaton is interesting, and that's clearly what they were going for with it... not "optimized" not "performance" not "best" not "efficient"...... they were going for interesting. BiffSmackwell's post confirms that they succeeded. They made an archetype where you have to think about how to use the powers... the majority of FFs made by players are extremely boring by comparison - there's nothing exciting about a character that does tons of damage and can't be killed while the player mindlessly spams their powers.

pantagruel01

I would not call it 'bloody terrible' by AT standards. It has chest beam and reconstructive circuits, which limits how terrible it can be.

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spinnytop

gradii wrote: »

Spoken like a true person who never spends a dime on the game.

I spent 100 bucks a week ago on the game.

A few months before that I spent about 60 bucks.

I'll read the rest of your comment after you respond to this.

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chaelk

same with the reason to buy LTS. Not everyone buys it to only play FF.

I bought it for all the free character slots, free costumes and free at's which I hadn't already bought.


as for, maxed out FF, designed to survive while player spams buttons, please read the line at the bottom of my signature. That describes the quality of FF, I make.

---

Not everyone likes the automatum,
Not everyone likes AT's.
not everyone likes maxed out FF,
not everyone likes NON-maxed out FF's,
not everyone likes lots of alts.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of whether it is good or not, from THEIR point of view.

Laughing or poking fun at people because they don't like what you do with your character, is <fill in your own insult>

---

<rude reminder removed>

decorumfriends

gradii gives me an English poser:

I said LIKE. I didn't say AS. go read the rest of my previous comment now.

**scratches head** If you'd have said "as" you'd have been talking about yourself. Which you weren't, you were talking about spinny, so the distinction is near meaningless.

hasukurobi

pantagruel01 wrote: »

I would not call it 'bloody terrible' by AT standards. It has chest beam and reconstructive circuits, which limits how terrible it can be.

Reconstructive Circuits are pretty lackluster when you really need a heal. So they are not much benefit.

Chest Beam is good but there are better AT's you can get it with...


I would say my main reason for not liking Automaton is simply that I do not feel any desire to have to grind up a badly cobbled together AT all the way to 40 just to cannibalize mostly ONE power. It just is not even remotely worthwhile.

pantagruel01

hasukurobi wrote: »

Reconstructive Circuits are pretty lackluster when you really need a heal. So they are not much benefit.

It's better than the 'no heals at all' of a typical AT.

avianos

I have Zig-Zag opinion for this, I Recently Succeeded in lvl an Automaton in lvl 40 (thanks to XP week bonus) and I have to say that curretntly is more Stable and with the right Strategy you can take advantage ALL of its powers for a Destructive Combo

BUT that doesn't change that it's a Horrible AT. Focusing more on the Negative popularity of this AT, let me put out my hate why

1. Potato Build
   
2. Power Gauntlet is useless waste of power slot, you have NO NEED of an AT with 2 Blast powers. THe Rocket Punch overshadow Power Gauntlet
3. Rocket Punch should have been the Starting power and not Power Gauntlet!
   
4. Horrible Start, I found myself Struggling to lvl both via Missions and Alerts on early lvls
   
5. Targeting Computer is not the best Passive for this Movepool
   
6. Oxymoron Energy Managment, this AT has REC along with one of the Best Energy Unlocks (Overdrive) and FAILS to take usage of Both! I'm more safe using my Energy Builder that trying to build Overdrive with Reconstructive Circuits, but this force me to be in 50 feet range from the Boss.
   Giving this AT another Toggle attack (like for example Eye Beam) would FIX the energy Management
   
7. Only 3 Unlockable powers, from which only 1 (Rocket Punch) WORTH the Trouble! and it's STUCKED with the Destroit Commander Skin
   
8. OVERHYPED Piece of Trash, it was Hyped along the Mechanon event and it failed
   
9. DEVs Ignored the Feedback and the Suggestions players gave during the Development (I was reading the forums that time via my Mobile Phone)
   
10. Aspect of the Machine Stacking method is horrible, and it doesn't give energy back
    
11. This AT brought back a lot of Bugs/Qlitches/Issues with Power Armor powers and Overdrive, which DEVs never bothered to FIX!
    
12. No Block
    
13. Knock Hell (which is Optional with ADV) why knocking something which result your target being out of YOUR Range again? Another KNOCK-SPAM annoying AT to get PUGed with the Impulse

I wouldn't be surprised if Automaton is the First and Last Reawaken AT, either it killed the Projects or DEVs will abandom it

spinnytop wrote: »

People hate it because it's an archetype, instead of a min-maxed freeform character that just happens to be labeled an archetype.

I paid to play as FFs Slots and sure HELL i will take advantage of it, and when I buy Lifetimer Sub (possible NOT right now) I will retcon my ATs characters into FFs and never look back!

ATs are so Frustating and Limited

But Despite that, I lvled 2 ATs along with Automaton!
The Blade and The Specialist! Guess who had better lvling Experience than Automaton

draogn

I dislike it because it wasn't worth the hype. One of the powers is poorly designed (*Aspect of the Machine*).

Thankfully I didn't have to regrind to 40 just for the two or three powers it gave. That would have likely made my feelings for the poorly designed AT worse.

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chaelk

gradii wrote: »

Whether or not you bought it for the same reason I did does not make the way that this AT's powers are unlocked any less of an insult to paying customers who did buy lifetime so they can have permanent access to the main attraction a sub is advertised as holding- Freeform at will.

To the OP,

here you . A lot of the complaints bout the AT boil down to this^^.

Having to level it to 40 in order to be able to cherry pick the powers for FF

<stuff tact, it's late and I'm going to bed>

chimerafreek

avianos wrote: »

No Block

I don't know WHY the lack of a block was at ALL a hotbutton on the feedback, adding a block would NOT have solved the problems with this AT.

oddbirdy

I fully admit, it still seems really strange that the introduced play-to-unlock-powers AT would be so poorly put together. If it was a fun build, then sure, you could have fun taking it to 40...but it isn't. It is tedious and painful.

chaelk

again to the OP,
here read through ALL the feedback on the PTS about this AT,
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=284791

all 50 pages of it.

spinnytop

gradii wrote: »

I said LIKE. I didn't say AS. go read the rest of my previous comment now.

And what the heck does that mean? You were wrong, just admit it. You tried to paint me as someone who has the opinions I have because I've never payed for anything, and you biffed on that one.

Or you were saying that I have the opinions of someone who's never paid.... even though I have.... which would actually make even less sense if you think about.

chaelk wrote: »

To the OP,

here you . A lot of the complaints bout the AT boil down to this^^.

Having to level it to 40 in order to be able to cherry pick the powers for FF

<stuff tact, it's late and I'm going to bed>

I dunno what tact has to do with it, you're just removing all the garbage nonsense BS that people try to tack on and just presenting the real truth. For some reason, people don't want to admit that that's the one and only reason. I mean hell, if you had taken ANY archetype and made it the one that people had to level, people would have complained just as much.

If I take away someone's ice cream and say "You can eat that again once you finish eating this shoe", they don't care what brand of shoe it is, they're just bummed that they have to eat a shoe before they get back to eating ice cream.

avianos wrote: »

I paid to play as FFs Slots and sure HELL i will take advantage of it, and when I buy Lifetimer Sub (possible NOT right now) I will retcon my ATs characters into FFs and never look back!

Neat. Did anyone say that you shouldn't do that? Wasn't me. I also prefer to play my FFs.

avianos wrote: »

ATs are so Frustating and Limited

Yes, they all are aren't they?
That'd make it kind of weird if they made on that wasn't....

avianos wrote: »

But Despite that, I lvled 2 ATs along with Automaton!
The Blade and The Specialist! Guess who had better lvling Experience than Automaton

Funny thing, I had a lot more fun with the Automaton than I ever did with the Blade. Blade feels awkward, limited, and really one-dimensional for me by comparison.

It's almost as if the Automaton isn't objectively bad... and whether it's fun or not is a subjective thing...just like all the Archetypes!

I mean shoot, if I gave people my FF's to play, I'm sure a whole heck of a lot of you would say "This build sucks, this isn't any fun to play", even though I think they're awesome and loads of fun ;D


It's entirely possible that fun does not come from min/maxing and synergy... and in fact... there's fun to be had by directly going against those objectives in a build.....for some

chaelk

that's ok, my wind/force FF's would probably annoy they heck out of people.
I just like bunching them up and watching the mobs ping back and forth while trying to attack.

spinnytop

chaelk wrote: »

that's ok, my wind/force FF's would probably annoy they heck out of people.
I just like bunching them up and watching the mobs ping back and forth while trying to attack.

I love that power n_n

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spinnytop

bluegrassbeast wrote: »

THat ATs came with it is irrelvant. I bought itfr slots, subscriber perks, and unlimited freeform. Pardon this but stop trying to "spin" things intoa false positive.

I played an AT for six months or so before going gold. I dislike ATs but I successfully leveld an Automaton to40. Not retrained an existing 40, I did it legit. ANd hated damn near every moment of it. It's a broken bloody mess, and having chest beam and recon circuits does not excus ea lack of a block, utterly redundant powers, a non-functional (for all purposes) Energy Unlock (WITH expensive powers, because let's make this worse!) and a broken toggle that has to be RANKED UP (WTF!) to be usable at all.

Your view on "boring" is irrelevant to the quality of the build, or any build. "interesting" should not be a polite euphemism for "purposefully worthlessly awful."

I'll be civil and say challenge gamers" here but we all now my sentiment on that lot - you like to mistake bad mechanics and masochism for "fun" unlike the majority.But bad mechanics aren't challenge - they're bad mechanics and should not be encouraged or supported.

I didn't bother reading past the first sentence. I'm just going to go ahead and refer you to an earlier post in this thread that I made... it's actually right on this page:

spinnytop wrote: »

I dunno what tact has to do with it, you're just removing all the garbage nonsense BS that people try to tack on and just presenting the real truth. For some reason, people don't want to admit that that's the one and only reason. I mean hell, if you had taken ANY archetype and made it the one that people had to level, people would have complained just as much.

If I take away someone's ice cream and say "You can eat that again once you finish eating this shoe", they don't care what brand of shoe it is, they're just bummed that they have to eat a shoe before they get back to eating ice cream.

Given that you'll see why the rest of your post doesn't make sense being directed at me.

cryptickalidor

Lots of good points, thanks for letting me know.

I guess I didn't notice any of that stuff.. I kind of went against the grain in my build and ignored my Con stat and pumped all my gear into Dex and Ego anyway and my chest beams almost always crit resulting in 2-3K taps and 10-13K fully charged attacks so I was cutting stuff down pretty fast at the higher levels.

vorshoth

Personally, even though I haven't finished levelling her, Iron Governess simply wouldn't exist if the rocket fist power didn't exist. As one of my favourite characters, a steampunk death machine/Mary Poppins homage, I like the Automaton just for giving me a idea for a character that bizarrely has won two CCs thus far.

In terms of build, I find it less squishy than archetypes were when I last played them, but bear in mind I last played an Archetype when it was Atari running the show.

My main criticism at low levels is that it feels like we're not doing enough damage, but I can't put my finger on why. Mechanically the archetype is well designed, although it seems to promote a certain style of play I'm not fully used to just yet.

chaelk

I don't stuff all my pts into one stat and I'm not focusing on chest beams.

flowcyto

vorshoth wrote: »

My main criticism at low levels is that it feels like we're not doing enough damage, but I can't put my finger on why. Mechanically the archetype is well designed, although it seems to promote a certain style of play I'm not fully used to just yet.

Rocket Punch doesn't have higher dps than any of the basic blasts anymore, and TC being somewhat broken means it won't be as high dps as it could be. Same w/ not being able to use >1 PA slot offensively at any given time (<- when ya get down to it, this is the biggest failing of a supposed Ranged PA build; even adding lowdps Eye Beams as a toggle would make RP spam on top solid dps). So, if ya have to rely on RP before ya get good enough energy for Chest Beam (and before getting EW for AoE) the dps isn't gonna be great simply cause basic blasts suck for dps.

The line AoE is nice, but also tiny, and far outshone by EW and Chest Beam. Having to set up the line for every mob can also drastically slow down ur grinding. Also doesn't help that the line AoE isn't properly flagged as AoE for the purposes of specs (so for Vind ya'd have to use Focused Strikes for higher crit from it, but that won't help Chest Beam or EW).

decorumfriends

It is kind of a weak build, and frankly there aren't any powers there I was interested in having my freeforms have access to. I probably wouldn't have made one at all if I didn't come up with a good idea that wasn't a robot or a cyborg.

Exo



"Video game programmer Robert Franklin's car accident left him without the use of his legs. He coped by throwing himself into his work. But a prototype game proved to be the perfect portal for the electronic entity Zz@tt to enter this dimension.

Zz@tt had a deal to offer to Robert. In exchange for giving him mobility, Zz@tt required Robert to engage in the activity known as "adventuring" that intrigued him. Zz@tt resides in the exo-skeletal structure it created that gives Exo his "hero name".

A combo of the Flash villain The Kilg%re and the Legion of Super-Heroes' Quislet!"

biffsmackwell

cryptickalidor wrote: »

Lots of good points, thanks for letting me know.

I guess I didn't notice any of that stuff.. I kind of went against the grain in my build and ignored my Con stat and pumped all my gear into Dex and Ego anyway and my chest beams almost always crit resulting in 2-3K taps and 10-13K fully charged attacks so I was cutting stuff down pretty fast at the higher levels.

Oy... I haven't leveled an alt without Nemesis gear since... Nemesis gear was a thing.

Think about it! Stacking a stat that isn't a SuperStat! Isn't it wild?!

I often rue the lack of Recovery in most builds, because I'm a simple man, and I like to punch-punch a face to get energy.

I have an overwhelming lack of point here.

nepht

The Automaton AT goes down faster than Messiah in BASH.

chaelk

did 14-26 today due to the double xp. oh boy do I hate knocks.
so I have a choice between a aoe which only hits if they standing on top of each other or knocks.

rocket punch is getting a lot of use.
and I am ready to throttle the person who put that energy builder in. it turns off if you use any other PA powers, so you can't heal and shoot it.

meedacthunist

I find the Rocket Punch possibly one of the most useless additions to the game. It looks pretty poorly, it's low tier and, in terms of utility, I find it subpar to Power Gauntlet.

I was using Power Gauntlet on my automaton because the novelty factor with a new skill is not worth being rooted in place while firing it and knockbacks are hardly any real advantage. In comparison the Power Gauntlet gave me similar dps and interrups on targets.

TBH all new powers introduced with this AT are terribly underwhelming.

Though I'm probably the only person who's not hating on Aspect of the Machine. I see nothing wrong in having to rank toggles to get serious benefits out of them, so...
Maybe other damage toggles also should be revisited in a some way so ranking them actually is useful.

I just find this AT, well... Redundant as it is. Not even terrible. Just unnecessary. A waste of time and resources.


Also, gating new powers behind the AT is basically insulting the part of the playerbase who did pay to not play ATs.

That's an awful idea, borderline suicidal, and hopefully it will be never revisited in the future. It's, basically, insulting people who paid you for subscribtion, LTS, FF slots, whatever. It's just... Outright stupid. Full stop.

No more unlocking anything for FFs through archetypes. I hope Cryptic now understands how unpopular idea it was.


The AT itself is not really worse than a few others and it's a free one, so there's that. I did not encounter difficulties leveling it, but then, CO NPCs aren't exactly hard to defeat.

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cryptickalidor

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Oy... I haven't leveled an alt without Nemesis gear since... Nemesis gear was a thing.

Think about it! Stacking a stat that isn't a SuperStat! Isn't it wild?!

I often rue the lack of Recovery in most builds, because I'm a simple man, and I like to punch-punch a face to get energy.

I have an overwhelming lack of point here.

Well, the Heirloom gear is kind of useless pre-level 15 anyway.. but I mostly use it too if for no other reason than to get the XP buff and free eye aura.

But since I made my robot on a lark I just started grabbing whatever mission gear I could get and realized that high dex was more beneficial to me than high con.

Before ATs most of my builds were Dex, Ego and Recovery as my super stats... lately I've been experimenting with different things.