you don't do squat for damage, and you get annihilated.... repeatedly.
I had it worse than others since I have no experience in vehicle combat. But.... I was getting creamed by the security guards.... not even the boss, but the security guards!!!
Vehicles had issues with this event back when they were in early stages, and hella op. It's scaled for the prototypes back when they were fantastic. Not to beat a dead horse here, what you're experiencing is the sum total of the nerfs that have been plaguing vehicles for the last year or more. Welcome to why I was so concerned. It's pretty jarring when you have a basis for comparison, huh?
Get off the bikes, get out of the jets, and grab a hover disk. You'll do better.
People said the same about lemuria. Hell, *I* said Lemuria would be obnoxious. I did Lemuria the other day, still only takes 3 passes to kill the big guy.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
Well, my 2c and advice, since we can't fix it (tis live now, right?) is to pq with a friend that's either got incendiary rounds/heavy cannon/grav pulse/rail gun and great mods, or with a friend that's either got millennial flight or jet boots/pack.
Doesn't help ground characters, I know. But if someone can keep on him and kill the heal drones while the rest catch up, should still be very doable. Honestly, this mission always did work best with someone running point in this fashion anyway.
Shame the rewards aren't gonna be worth the extra tactics.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
Using my skyfox setup with an all around aoe/single target setup, I took stone down pretty quickly.
You have to be very careful in watching what he's doing, and react accordingly, also; it helps greatly to know where he's going to next, so; take a shorter route to get there, and try to kill the healers before he gets to them.
This event was set up in its first year as a PUG.. Alerts changed the whole dynamic of team building and group finding to a PUG lottery.
What can the community do to offer constructive critiques?
The base lead up works well.. You have various leveled mobs of "Nightwing" people and crimes scenes to gather the 10 needed circumstantial evidence items So the lead up build up works quickly..if your know the map and adjust your travel styles to navigate it.. one can quickly cover it at level 20 Void i then tested it with a lvl 25 [Night Advenger"with some Tako event gear and kittted out with Vanguard heirloom.
The Warehouse,Lab and Bank drops for Concrete evidence work fine.
The Zone announcements of where "Nighthawk" is works fine.
Then all pumped up we follow the map to find an area bordering a semi dangerous zone to enter.. Heres where problems started in year one and now on re-release.
Combat balance: tring to recall first impressions..always hated the Hoods knockback shotgun but the mobs inside seem easier somehow. then my freeform low lvl or silver arctypes had first go.. which is fine.
Team Finder.. you cant expect people to camp the entry and berg strangers to help when it takes a bit of skill in there.. to clear a crowded lobby its like the WArlord Harmon LAbs Heist.
Not your average PUG. the respawn start points means the teams severely penalized.. as you catch up..
The Flight combat mobs.. of rooftop helpers in year one.. made it harder to learn a new flight system and face a timer that dumps you out just as you ready the last shot needed to finish it.
The cutscenes an in penthouse are nice the layout of the maps interesting and not as difficult as Terkiels temple.. was trying to PUG in Alpha testing. ITs exciting.. but this sort of mechanic leads to rushers looking for loot and less patients to teach new players ..this can bread a fun killign event known as Rage quit and joy kill. both are very dangerous to promote community growth.
I think I'm going to give it a pass because I'm getting repeated small-scale rubberbanding, even in Canada. And there's no way I can catch up with Stone's gunship, much less beat it there and kill the healers, if I keep stutter-stepping backward.
Everything was fine yesterday, once I cleared up an issue with my net connection; I blame the implementation of the event.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Not to beat the topic to death, but plasma shear did in fact need a rebalance. It was pretty drastically op, and broke events. My thoughts about the fix aside, it was a fix that needed to happen. AA missiles and Biosteels, on the other hand.
The speed nerf is really rearing its head right now, though. That one slipped under the radar, and it might actually be the worst.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
I ran one today. We barely eked by with 30 seconds left on the clock, even with me fairly reliably leading Stone's VTOL and murdering the engineer. Also should add that I died in the jet a LOT.
The main issue is the combat slowdown; the jets didn't used to have that, which meant that dealing with the biggest damage dealer in the event - Stone's Laser Drones - was managed by quickly swooping out of the way. As it is now, you will not be anywhere near fast enough to swerve the beams they shoot, unless you're basically strafing constantly. And because of how much damage they do, that's basically insta-death.
It kind of highlights the paradigm shift that occured to vehicles between the Nighthawk event and now: Prior to most of the paid vehicles being introduced, vehicles had the upper hand in speed and range, and fought by basically using their excellent mobility as their defense and to their advantage, while not necessarily being much hardier or more powerful than a normal character. Now, with the increased focus on the big combat vehicles, like tanks and chariots, that kind of got lost somewhere and now they're just giant customizable characters with permaflight and focus on a whole lot of very cheap ranged AoE.
Basically, less of a bug/nerf(? They seemed about as damaging as they used to be), and more of a feature that got tagged on to the end of vehicles after devs decided vehicles weren't about mobility at all (what)
This is a mission that I've been several times WITHOUT using a vehicle (on teams with a mix of toons and vehicles). I do expect the combat slowdown on vehicles being a problem where they aren't for heros (who are a smaller target and probably aren't as easily pinned by the laser drones). But damage-wise? I'm a little baffled why that is suddenly an issue.
It's not as bad as you're making it out to be. I've completed it upwards of 20 times now, without dying once, and without a failure; you can see the lasers teleporting in, and can quickly shift to the side.
Yeah, I just ran it on my vehicle and beat it with over 6 minutes to spare.
Never had a problem keeping up with Franklin Stone. I died once from the lasers but that was because I was being static when attacking. After that error I kept moving and was never bothered by them again.
Have to agree with Kaizern, though also with those saying the event vehicles suck, the first time I we failed and I was doing pretty much no damage but as soon as I realized I didn't have to stay with the event vehicle it was a cake walk more or less.
What bothers me is that the event announcement said you get "and awards 2,000 Questionite and some exclusive Nighthawk devices." yet no one seems to be getting these so called exclusive devices.
~I'm a figment of your imagination, a mass hallucination, only real because you feel I am~
You can get the [Nighthawk's Device Kit] from the Questionite Store/Questionite Gear Tab and it has the same devices. They're all temp(charges) and, if memory serves they're mostly terrible but if you're really really curious they can be yours for 4k Questionite.
The Device Kit should be put back as a drop for this event. Its where it originally came from. Its a nice incentive to try limited charge powers. Especially that Resurrection Serum, the first real rez device in the game that was worth getting.
The Device Kit should be put back as a drop for this event. Its where it originally came from. Its a nice incentive to try limited charge powers. Especially that Resurrection Serum, the first real rez device in the game that was worth getting.
^ x100.
I'm just sharing my experience with this event for the most part, and not commenting with my personal thoughts. But this is legit. Even if it drops the device kit with sellable stuff, like warlord does? That's like 2g per box.
Queue ain't popping now, often. And I'm sharing how to beat it as much as I can. People are doing it, in fact. But the rewards could use a tweak.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
The standard vehicles are enough if you're smart. Completed one this way today. Thankfully, the rubberbanding issues haven't come up for me today...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I think he means "knowing actually what to do in a mission and not just button bashing in a one place while spinning around".
Or am i compleatly lost.
No, that's pretty much it. At least one person, preferably two, has to know that when Stone breaks off, they should look for the tower of light, then go kill the Engineers as fast as possible to minimize his healing (hard to eliminate it completely), while the others blast away at Stone. And don't sit in one spot any longer than absolutely necessary - the ground troops will concentrate fire on you, and then there's the lasers (which take a moment to target, so if you move, they shouldn't get you that often - every time I died, it was because at that particular moment I wasn't moving for one reason or another).
You can do it in your own souped-up vehicle, or in their standard vehicle, or under your own power if you can fly. It's up to you, but if you learn anything from the forums or from the tips being offered in Chat, it's eminently doable.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
lets put it this way. its abnormally difficult with the standard vehicles and next to impossible in a pug.
and since people don't want to spend half an hour looking for a full team they'll either opt to use their souped up vehicle or a flying toon.
Yeah but it's just one of a few missions that require that. It's a good thing that the game has a few bits of content that cater to people who like that kind of content. Me personally I prefer pug-and-go content where the challenges are more individually based rather than requiring any sort of group coordination, but I don't represent the entire player base and I support this kind of diversity. At the end of the day, there's really nothing requiring anyone to do this mission - I missed out on this event the first time through, and now that I've tried it I see it wasn't really made for me to begin with. And I'm okay with that, I have plenty of other stuff that was... though of course I'd still like some more content that has a higher level of individual challenge, because that's the sort of thing I really enjoy.
That problem is solved by having currency exchange shops be where most rewards come from, each currency earned in more than one kind of content.
Yeah but then you're right back to the problem of people not bothering to even do this mission because they can get the same rewards elsewhere (the mission currently rewards a currency that can be earned in more than one kind of content... questionite).
This is basically the smarter of the two ways... at least this way when people get fed up with the mission, their more likely response is "well the reward sucks anyway so who cares"
Didn't seem "abnormally difficult" to me - certainly not as bad as when Dockside Dustup was a lvl 10 Alert, came up with the ever-popular Nemesis, and some schmuck would start Knocking our target all over the map.
We came, we saw, we blew him out of the sky. No problem.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Just curious, could someone please provide me an example of something that has been "nerfed"(or boosted) on the provided vehicles for this alert if you were to look at this event's original launch date and today? Honestly, not counting speed changes(which do appear to be causing some issues...so slow Stone's ship down a touch) have the jets in this event actually been affected in a positive and/or negative way?
You see, I'm not entirely certain about the answer to this question to be honest and I'm curious so I thought I would ask in here and see what popped up since, to my casual observations, it looks like these vehicles basically lived in a bubble in regards to Vehicles 2.0 and the following adjustments as a result of certain unfortunate aspects with Vehicles 2.0...other than their speed and boosting capabilities.
But then again I just use that pretty window as my selection and my handy dandy Hover Disk. :cool:
Thanks for removing all the rewards from this mission Cryptic. This allows me to completely ignore this alert, so I don't have to be constantly reminded how bad my vehicles are now, and frees up time for many other games.
Thanks for removing all the rewards from this mission Cryptic. This allows me to completely ignore this alert, so I don't have to be constantly reminded how bad my vehicles are now, and frees up time for many other games.
Just curious, could someone please provide me an example of something that has been "nerfed"(or boosted) on the provided vehicles for this alert if you were to look at this event's original launch date and today? Honestly, not counting speed changes(which do appear to be causing some issues...so slow Stone's ship down a touch) have the jets in this event actually been affected in a positive and/or negative way?
You see, I'm not entirely certain about the answer to this question to be honest and I'm curious so I thought I would ask in here and see what popped up since, to my casual observations, it looks like these vehicles basically lived in a bubble in regards to Vehicles 2.0 and the following adjustments as a result of certain unfortunate aspects with Vehicles 2.0...other than their speed and boosting capabilities.
But then again I just use that pretty window as my selection and my handy dandy Hover Disk. :cool:
Vehicles 2.0 saw a decrease in the overall power level of most of the stock and legacy vehicles. It's not *huge*, but the baked in jets did get some of the power fiddle as well. Slightly squishier, slightly less damage... It all basically boils down to "and now your toon does it better". They used to take a better hit and throw a bit more dps to counter the fact that we have spec trees and can crit. That little bit of a reduction (hard to put hard figures to off the top of my head, it's been a while, but it wasn't earth shattering) was enough to sway that balance to the character side of things. At that point, the one thing they DID have going for them was the speed in combat. Losing that? It's just not worth it to use the ones that come pre-baked with the mission, unless you're a support build or basically just don't bring the damage too well. I think off the top of my head, only the mind and the radiant qualify as far as archetypes are concerned. Even the mind, with mind opener, stands a good chance of hitting harder. At that point the vehicles are ONLY a preferable option because of the AOE.
Obviously freeforms vary quite a bit.
The main reason I've personally been suggesting ditching the rides is because of things like heal devices, and the fact that the dps is *most likely* going to be higher on a toon. I'd rather use mini-mines than the vehicle micro-munitions. Between that and all of the survival options even the squishiest freeform brings to the table, vs the absolute *lack* of the same on many of the jets, it's just a better plan all around. It'd be a better debate if vehicles had a block, but yeah.
I guess the thing to keep in mind is our characters have hard defense/offense ratings and such. Vehicles have a defense of 4, for example. WTF that 4 means? It's definitely not the same 4 as at launch of this thing. The lasers never one shot you as fast as they can now, even the dps jets could hang for a little while. The fact that they're not tricked out like a T2 ride with good mods makes it that much more noticeable.
Overall though, your assessment is accurate IMO. If they didn't have the combat speed nerf they'd be more than viable. Not *optimal*, but they'd get the job done adequately enough. I'm not even sure slowing Stone is the right option, I almost feel like just increasing the timer by like 30 seconds would be a better solution. Fighting him on the move was never really viable anyway.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
Comments
RIP Caine
you don't do squat for damage, and you get annihilated.... repeatedly.
I had it worse than others since I have no experience in vehicle combat. But.... I was getting creamed by the security guards.... not even the boss, but the security guards!!!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Get off the bikes, get out of the jets, and grab a hover disk. You'll do better.
People said the same about lemuria. Hell, *I* said Lemuria would be obnoxious. I did Lemuria the other day, still only takes 3 passes to kill the big guy.
RIP Caine
Point still stands.
RIP Caine
Doesn't help ground characters, I know. But if someone can keep on him and kill the heal drones while the rest catch up, should still be very doable. Honestly, this mission always did work best with someone running point in this fashion anyway.
Shame the rewards aren't gonna be worth the extra tactics.
RIP Caine
You have to be very careful in watching what he's doing, and react accordingly, also; it helps greatly to know where he's going to next, so; take a shorter route to get there, and try to kill the healers before he gets to them.
XS
What can the community do to offer constructive critiques?
The base lead up works well.. You have various leveled mobs of "Nightwing" people and crimes scenes to gather the 10 needed circumstantial evidence items So the lead up build up works quickly..if your know the map and adjust your travel styles to navigate it.. one can quickly cover it at level 20 Void i then tested it with a lvl 25 [Night Advenger"with some Tako event gear and kittted out with Vanguard heirloom.
The Warehouse,Lab and Bank drops for Concrete evidence work fine.
The Zone announcements of where "Nighthawk" is works fine.
Then all pumped up we follow the map to find an area bordering a semi dangerous zone to enter.. Heres where problems started in year one and now on re-release.
Combat balance: tring to recall first impressions..always hated the Hoods knockback shotgun but the mobs inside seem easier somehow. then my freeform low lvl or silver arctypes had first go.. which is fine.
Team Finder.. you cant expect people to camp the entry and berg strangers to help when it takes a bit of skill in there.. to clear a crowded lobby its like the WArlord Harmon LAbs Heist.
Not your average PUG. the respawn start points means the teams severely penalized.. as you catch up..
The Flight combat mobs.. of rooftop helpers in year one.. made it harder to learn a new flight system and face a timer that dumps you out just as you ready the last shot needed to finish it.
The cutscenes an in penthouse are nice the layout of the maps interesting and not as difficult as Terkiels temple.. was trying to PUG in Alpha testing. ITs exciting.. but this sort of mechanic leads to rushers looking for loot and less patients to teach new players ..this can bread a fun killign event known as Rage quit and joy kill. both are very dangerous to promote community growth.
Everything was fine yesterday, once I cleared up an issue with my net connection; I blame the implementation of the event.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I wonder who on these forums crowed the loudest about them getting nerfed. :rolleyes:
Hint: It wasn't me, I've actually never said anything about nerfing vehicles.
The speed nerf is really rearing its head right now, though. That one slipped under the radar, and it might actually be the worst.
RIP Caine
RIP Caine
The main issue is the combat slowdown; the jets didn't used to have that, which meant that dealing with the biggest damage dealer in the event - Stone's Laser Drones - was managed by quickly swooping out of the way. As it is now, you will not be anywhere near fast enough to swerve the beams they shoot, unless you're basically strafing constantly. And because of how much damage they do, that's basically insta-death.
It kind of highlights the paradigm shift that occured to vehicles between the Nighthawk event and now: Prior to most of the paid vehicles being introduced, vehicles had the upper hand in speed and range, and fought by basically using their excellent mobility as their defense and to their advantage, while not necessarily being much hardier or more powerful than a normal character. Now, with the increased focus on the big combat vehicles, like tanks and chariots, that kind of got lost somewhere and now they're just giant customizable characters with permaflight and focus on a whole lot of very cheap ranged AoE.
Basically, less of a bug/nerf(? They seemed about as damaging as they used to be), and more of a feature that got tagged on to the end of vehicles after devs decided vehicles weren't about mobility at all (what)
I can't be bothered to run it again.
There is no incentive to replay.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
This is a mission that I've been several times WITHOUT using a vehicle (on teams with a mix of toons and vehicles). I do expect the combat slowdown on vehicles being a problem where they aren't for heros (who are a smaller target and probably aren't as easily pinned by the laser drones). But damage-wise? I'm a little baffled why that is suddenly an issue.
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XS
Never had a problem keeping up with Franklin Stone. I died once from the lasers but that was because I was being static when attacking. After that error I kept moving and was never bothered by them again.
I will agree the rewards are lackluster.
What bothers me is that the event announcement said you get "and awards 2,000 Questionite and some exclusive Nighthawk devices." yet no one seems to be getting these so called exclusive devices.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
^ x100.
I'm just sharing my experience with this event for the most part, and not commenting with my personal thoughts. But this is legit. Even if it drops the device kit with sellable stuff, like warlord does? That's like 2g per box.
Queue ain't popping now, often. And I'm sharing how to beat it as much as I can. People are doing it, in fact. But the rewards could use a tweak.
RIP Caine
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't remember anyone demanding in-combat movement penalties.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Or am i compleatly lost.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
You can do it in your own souped-up vehicle, or in their standard vehicle, or under your own power if you can fly. It's up to you, but if you learn anything from the forums or from the tips being offered in Chat, it's eminently doable.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Yeah but it's just one of a few missions that require that. It's a good thing that the game has a few bits of content that cater to people who like that kind of content. Me personally I prefer pug-and-go content where the challenges are more individually based rather than requiring any sort of group coordination, but I don't represent the entire player base and I support this kind of diversity. At the end of the day, there's really nothing requiring anyone to do this mission - I missed out on this event the first time through, and now that I've tried it I see it wasn't really made for me to begin with. And I'm okay with that, I have plenty of other stuff that was... though of course I'd still like some more content that has a higher level of individual challenge, because that's the sort of thing I really enjoy.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well that's the catch 22 isn't it. If it had good rewards, people would be complaining that they're being forced to do it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yeah but then you're right back to the problem of people not bothering to even do this mission because they can get the same rewards elsewhere (the mission currently rewards a currency that can be earned in more than one kind of content... questionite).
This is basically the smarter of the two ways... at least this way when people get fed up with the mission, their more likely response is "well the reward sucks anyway so who cares"
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
We came, we saw, we blew him out of the sky. No problem.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You see, I'm not entirely certain about the answer to this question to be honest and I'm curious so I thought I would ask in here and see what popped up since, to my casual observations, it looks like these vehicles basically lived in a bubble in regards to Vehicles 2.0 and the following adjustments as a result of certain unfortunate aspects with Vehicles 2.0...other than their speed and boosting capabilities.
But then again I just use that pretty window as my selection and my handy dandy Hover Disk. :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
-Ogre
Only being mildly sarcastic here.
^ see, working as intended.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Vehicles 2.0 saw a decrease in the overall power level of most of the stock and legacy vehicles. It's not *huge*, but the baked in jets did get some of the power fiddle as well. Slightly squishier, slightly less damage... It all basically boils down to "and now your toon does it better". They used to take a better hit and throw a bit more dps to counter the fact that we have spec trees and can crit. That little bit of a reduction (hard to put hard figures to off the top of my head, it's been a while, but it wasn't earth shattering) was enough to sway that balance to the character side of things. At that point, the one thing they DID have going for them was the speed in combat. Losing that? It's just not worth it to use the ones that come pre-baked with the mission, unless you're a support build or basically just don't bring the damage too well. I think off the top of my head, only the mind and the radiant qualify as far as archetypes are concerned. Even the mind, with mind opener, stands a good chance of hitting harder. At that point the vehicles are ONLY a preferable option because of the AOE.
Obviously freeforms vary quite a bit.
The main reason I've personally been suggesting ditching the rides is because of things like heal devices, and the fact that the dps is *most likely* going to be higher on a toon. I'd rather use mini-mines than the vehicle micro-munitions. Between that and all of the survival options even the squishiest freeform brings to the table, vs the absolute *lack* of the same on many of the jets, it's just a better plan all around. It'd be a better debate if vehicles had a block, but yeah.
I guess the thing to keep in mind is our characters have hard defense/offense ratings and such. Vehicles have a defense of 4, for example. WTF that 4 means? It's definitely not the same 4 as at launch of this thing. The lasers never one shot you as fast as they can now, even the dps jets could hang for a little while. The fact that they're not tricked out like a T2 ride with good mods makes it that much more noticeable.
Overall though, your assessment is accurate IMO. If they didn't have the combat speed nerf they'd be more than viable. Not *optimal*, but they'd get the job done adequately enough. I'm not even sure slowing Stone is the right option, I almost feel like just increasing the timer by like 30 seconds would be a better solution. Fighting him on the move was never really viable anyway.
RIP Caine