Right. I don't dislike BASH anyways, when it's not fun it gives me stuff to say on the boards.. I even win sometimes ! I'm not really bothered with these kinds of situations, or at least not for too long. But I know some people are, and you can't just tell them all "ignore everyone, be ok with getting farmed and ka-tshing PvP becomes fun".
Right. I don't dislike BASH anyways, when it's not fun it gives me stuff to say on the boards.. I even win sometimes ! I'm not really bothered with these kinds of situations, or at least not for too long. But I know some people are, and you can't just tell them all "ignore everyone, be ok with getting farmed and ka-tshing PvP becomes fun".
I wouldn't tell them that. I would tell them "Don't que for BASH, que for ZA instead, and then just wait with the rest of us for a fix to the que bug so you can que for more team pvp."
BASH isn't for everybody... primarily because it's a terrible idea in a tab-target mmo. I know I think it's stupid (despite nearly always winning or getting close when I do end up in there).
I always suggest that people cut their teeth in zombie apocalypse, first. If you're on the human side, your team will for the most part watch your back. It's a good way to get used to what's working and isn't. Granted, being new and on the zombie side isn't always the best.
BASH is definitely hard mode. I brought a character in that throws 25-30k force cascades and still barely held my own. The every man for himself nature of it, I think there's a reason why pre-bug it was the least popular mode. PVP's more fun when it's team oriented.
That said, when you actually do get a build sorted that can keep up even to a moderate degree? It's pretty damn fun to beat some faces, especially if they're the ones that previously stomped you a new one.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I was so pitiful, wasn't even worth trying. My support toon did better.
Pure tanks don't tend to do well since points come through kills, so no surprise there. I feel you on this, and it's why I can't stand pvping with a defensive passive. I hate that feeling of throwing everything I have at someone, and seeing nothing happen to their hit points, and the builds required to make it work don't interest me (I had one once, it worked great, but was ultimately not fun enough).
So far behind the other three toons there was no point in even tagging.
Dang.
The good toons had these things in common as far as I could tell:
MD on short cooldown (number one thing)
Ascension
Teleport
Yes, those three powers do quite a bit of good in pvp; MD more so than the other two. Did your darkness toon have Ebon Ruin? Was it super squishy type of dps toon? Burstrrilla tagtics :P
I have dps toons that aren't particularly optimized for pvp (5k HP, only heal is the slow over time one in power armor), but still manage to have some fun with them (ZA is best for those, zombie side).
It helps if you happen to enjoy building bursty toons.
Being about as good a regular NPC mobs to these heroes simply isn't fun. It's pointless. Not even good enough to get in "practice".
Alas.
BASH is rarely about you getting a kill. It generally ends up being "hey for some reason that guy's health went a good chunk below full... everyone pile on them!". Oddly enough, BASH is a team sport most of the time.. you're just not always on the team. Generally if someone is getting solo kills it's because they're going after the squishies who are easy to nail down.
killing things in PvE is like being presented with several glasses of water and being told "Okay, all you have to do is take these glasses and slowly pour them out". Killing someone in PvP is more like "Okay you see that greased up pig? hold it down and get it to swallow this giant pill", and if that doesn't sound fun to you then it's likely you won't find much fun in co's pvp (though keep in mind, there is always the option to wait until someone has wrestled the pig down, and then run up and punch the pill down it's throat uwu)
BASH is rarely about you getting a kill. It generally ends up being "hey for some reason that guy's health went a good chunk below full... everyone pile on them!". Oddly enough, BASH is a team sport most of the time.. you're just not always on the team. Generally if someone is getting solo kills it's because they're going after the squishies who are easy to nail down.
Unless you're me and end up with people being super weary that you may be out there ready to burst them. <_< But yeah most of my kills are usually 100%-0%. A non squishy will usually be in the middle of everyone more but most likely run away less as well. This can mean they are still a reletively easy target if I am able to kill them in a ice nade - omi - rimefire - sr combo. It's a little to hard to double SR and rimefire on a single target in BASH as you don't usually get enough time to do that.
I remember lower-tier, team PvP fondly. Below level 35, you would see a huge variety of builds (because people hadn't rectonned at 40 yet), and team play is just very different.
My main toon, support AoPM teleporter, can survive very well, and tag for some defeats.
I will rebuild another of my toons for PvP specifically and see where it leads me.
After rebuilding a toon for PvP, I went into BASH.
Same story--I was not even relevant to the combatants. A combination of frustrating and boring. My attacks did almost no damage to my enemies, and they cut me down in less than 5 seconds generally, despite defense of 300 and nearly 13K health.
The new build went with AoPM as passive, Con primary with dodge spec, legion gear including dodge/avoidance, short cooldowns. Had MD, Ascension, and Resurgence. Nice devices like nec elixir and omi strength. Melee based powers including demolish/haymaker combo (with trauma).
I tried. I really did.
This is why the Devs don't care about PvP, as well as most players: it's too frustrating for most players to get into. The price of entry is simply too high.
After rebuilding a toon for PvP, I went into BASH.
Same story--I was not even relevant to the combatants. A combination of frustrating and boring. My attacks did almost no damage to my enemies, and they cut me down in less than 5 seconds generally, despite defense of 300 and nearly 13K health.
The new build went with AoPM as passive, Con primary with dodge spec, legion gear including dodge/avoidance, short cooldowns. Had MD, Ascension, and Resurgence. Nice devices like nec elixir and omi strength. Melee based powers including demolish/haymaker combo (with trauma).
I tried. I really did.
This is why the Devs don't care about PvP, as well as most players: it's too frustrating for most players to get into. The price of entry is simply too high.
Okay let me describe to you every part of where you went wrong on the attempt at a PvP build...
1. You seem to of misunderstood what a PVP build is.
2. AOPM DOESN'T make people increadably tanky. it gives people nice heals and this is the biggest challenge when taking on a AOPM user, their damage and defense is both average and fairly "inbetween" offense and defense. They may seem tankier due to higher healing but that's about it really.
3. CON primary is just... So... Meh. If you like losing all your damage then go ahead but go strength all the way if you wanna have an easier time in PvP.
4. Nec elixir doesn't work in PvP, ER will remove it.
5. Using resurgence instead of unbreakable for the rotation means you don't have perma AD's, it's a viable choice as an AD but you have to actually know when to use the burst heal well. Green is one of the best at doing this however most people just stick to the unbreakable rotation.
6. Dodge / avoidance was nerfed, you would of been much better off going for a pure defense build using str primary. One avoidance core however is usually okay as it will make you even more unkillable while MD is up, but yeah more defense you have more offense you have... Gg as a choice.
7. Melee without any sort of CC especially haymaker is very painful to attempt to do even on a tank. Especially seeing as you didn't go for a full burst haymaker but went for trauma on it which you wouldn't be able to get off much on people as it's melee. Demolish is nice but is better with an int build with other forms of resistance debuffing to be able to cut out all their defenses.
All in all with 13k hp on a melee build without any sort of strong holding to get them still and a lacking burst with a haymaker only on r2 you really would make it hard to play BASH especially if you are new'ish to it.
Now all these things I said doesn't mean there is only one way to build a toon viable for PvP. There are a few however this isn't one of them neither is it original or themed so you can't really complain about PvP being against that stuff either.
What did you mean by price? You mean it's hard to start getting into and understand what is going on in it? Clearly you didn't mean gear as you stated you had that expensive gear and devices. And as I have said before I've won BASH on a level 31 before.
I was trying to make an existing toon better suited to PvP, I suppose I could make my toon more like one of the standard builds, but then I wouldn't enjoy playing it as much. I guess I would need to focus on cooldowns even more, and do the Unbreakable/MD rotation. That is what everyone else did, it seemed. I could not generally damage anyone else in BASH.
Thanks for your careful advice, by the way, Hinky.
I was trying to make an existing toon better suited to PvP, I suppose I could make my toon more like one of the standard builds, but then I wouldn't enjoy playing it as much. I guess I would need to focus on cooldowns even more, and do the Unbreakable/MD rotation. That is what everyone else did, it seemed. I could not generally damage anyone else in BASH.
Thanks for your careful advice, by the way, Hinky.
That wasn't what I meant, as I said at the end this doesn't mean that there is only one way to do it.
Unbreakable isn't needed however not having it with MD means you actually have to check if your MD is up or not, while it isn't up get the hell outa there.
if you want a haymaker toon to be viable being a aopm "tank" using CON primary really isn't the way to go. If you want CON primary to work at all in PvP I would suggest you go for defiant instead of AOPM as that would fix any energy problems anyway.
You need a hold to get them still before charging a full r3 haymaker really. I always check if I have a knock / root / hold on each build I make. If I don't have one of them I check if I have any room to get them in anyway, if not and I don't consider them to be needed I don't get them. But most of the time they are very useful, especially hold and knock. If you wanted you could get something basic like ego sleep or bolas as a 50ft hold then knock them back with haymaker before sleeping and going back in for another haymaker.
When in BASH careful not to attract too much unwanted attention. As soon as one person starts hitting you it's rather likely another person will jump on the kill wagon to try getting that kill as well. Make sure that the number of people hitting you doesn't build up too much as a tank and as a squishier build just make sure no one ever hits you, get out of there ASAP as soon as someone is chasing.
The minimap is VERY useful in CO, it even tells you the way people are facing so you can see if someone is looking on you as if it's a 2D game, kinda funny to do especially when me and eve look at each other both checking the mini map it literally turns into a 2D flash game. <_<
ice nade - omi - rimefire - sr combo [...] double SR rimefire
Wow.. really ? I made an attempt at a PvP build today and I came up with Ice Form-SR-rimefire-Nanobot Swarm-Ice Blast. I bought Omicron Strenght and Ice Grenades. Inconscient copybuilding ?.. Oh, well.
Wow.. really ? I made an attempt at a PvP build today and I came up with Ice Form-SR-rimefire-Nanobot Swarm-Ice Blast. I bought Omicron Strenght and Ice Grenades. Inconscient copybuilding ?.. Oh, well.
Haha not at all, it's a good build and makes sense as a build.
Copy building isn't really a thing as the min maxed combo's are limited to about 10-15 or so viable PvP build concepts. Ice form has chill on it which is the best snare, ice blast can hit like 2gm damage and SR - rimefire are two of the largest burst powers which just so happen to be elemental damage. Also a problem with the settup for the build is there is no nailed but omicron fixes it, ice grenades is a blatant choice as a device using ice form.
I wouldn't say it's copy building at all it's just building smart.
I've been using the SR ice form build for over a year now though, it's changed a lot over time trust me. Just look at how the build first looked: http://youtu.be/2JLByYtvBfA :O
Hm, interesting... I think I might see what one problem could possibly be.
All this focus on builds might give the impression that pvp is actually entirely about the build you use. While there's no doubt that build is important, this mentality might cause people to forget that what you do in pvp also has a big impact on how well you'll do; specifically, movement, attentiveness, and timing.
If people say "Okay, I made a pvp build just like what the other people have, and that's all I'll need" they might go into pvp haphazardly spamming everything they have, heedlessly rushing towards their targets in perpetual tunnel vision... then wonder why they didn't kill anyone and got stomperfied. Those people might assume that there is some other statistical advantage they don't possess that the others do, and then label that as some sort of barrier to entry even though it doesn't actually exist.
Why I remember when I thought PvPers were just invincible 24/7... until one day I realized that the people I was attacking were just really good about timing when to use their MD. They would see me come rushing at them, know I was about to go nuts, so they would just pop MD and rope-a-dope me. Once I learned that I actually have to be a bit more thoughtful about when to press and when to fall back, people started feeling less invincible.
Hell, I pvp entirely wrong then. Half of the joy I get out of the hero games stems from "I'm going to throw a wall of damage at you, let's see who flinches first".
Roughbear, one of the first times I went in pvp recently, I went in with the same idea. Unstoppable unleashed rage haymaker tosser. Even with a snare, it was *hard* to get a haymaker to land. Melee pvp isn't the easiest, especially charged melee. Works a treat for duels, but bash is a different monster entirely.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Hell, I pvp entirely wrong then. Half of the joy I get out of the hero games stems from "I'm going to throw a wall of damage at you, let's see who flinches first".
Roughbear, one of the first times I went in pvp recently, I went in with the same idea. Unstoppable unleashed rage haymaker tosser. Even with a snare, it was *hard* to get a haymaker to land. Melee pvp isn't the easiest, especially charged melee. Works a treat for duels, but bash is a different monster entirely.
Yeah you need a reliable knock or hold really as a melee. I like the way you say it works a treat in duels, maybe against easier fights but against any BASH builds (as in people who use that build for BASH not really builds specifically made for it) you most likely are not gonna witn using a melee build without any holds.
I think I will be better off using my main toon, a support AoPM self-healing and teleporting monster. I know how to use this toon very well, and I can rack up defeats by tagging enemies. Best yet, I get to keep my hero entirely within theme and backstory, which is important to me.
It's a viable strategy--as viable as Strafing Run.
I think I will be better off using my main toon, a support AoPM self-healing and teleporting monster. I know how to use this toon very well, and I can rack up defeats by tagging enemies. Best yet, I get to keep my hero entirely within theme and backstory, which is important to me.
It's a viable strategy--as viable as Strafing Run.
Take care, Teleport is easy-to-target if anyone have Malvan Emblem or any Stealth sight gear/mods with enough INT. o3o
I don't Teleport much because we can nearly do nochin while Teleporting. o3o
You mean like me? last B.A.S.H match I tried I couldn't walk 3 ft without being knocked into oblivion/rendered helpless, so giving a win would be a nice change of pace, if ever, before I become completely intolerant of the despairity...
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Oh, I know that, Monaahiru. My toon can see teleporters.
R3 teleport is still quite fast.
Yeah I use R3 teleport. If you go behind something it will enhance your stealth and usually even with stealth sight it'll break their target allowing you to get away.
Also teleport has slow fall on it so if you use teleport with either super speed or super jump you can actually get a pretty fast flight looking thing going. It's kinda cool and allows you to hover above combat and come down upon your prey.
Yes, because everyone, in every MMO with pvp, expects to win the first time they join Hero Games.
Are you serious? This is the way you learn the basics, no one is born a pvp'er (gamenwatch excluded, I heard he was born with a wrapped mask, a halo, baggy pants and dark aura).
But yeah, you were a bit unlucky in that match, don't expect that to happen all the time.
Oh I don't expect to win cause I know I can't keep up, (Tho I try to enjoy myself, but being rendered useless & being Downed in under 3 seconds flat isn't fun, Using Melee, no chance...) it's just this thread offered to help give a win to a less fortunate and maybe feel better about being disadvantaged cause I choose to play otherwise. :I
Everything should have a purpose and a chance, not just cherry picked designs and devices to excel, but that's life ay.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Oh I don't expect to win cause I know I can't keep up, (Tho I try to enjoy myself, but being rendered useless & being Downed in under 3 seconds flat isn't fun, Using Melee, no chance...) it's just this thread offered to help give a win to a less fortunate and maybe feel better about being disadvantaged cause I choose to play otherwise. :I
Everything should have a purpose and a chance, not just cherry picked designs and devices to excel, but that's life ay.
Maybe I should start queing as my power armor character again... but then people always yell at me for going 0-10 in two minutes and ruining everything u3u
Maybe I should start queing as my power armor character again... but then people always yell at me for going 0-10 in two minutes and ruining everything u3u
Yelled at for win/lose? O.-.o Win I can understand but Loss, no logic except to discourage you.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Yelled at for win/lose? O.-.o Win I can understand but Loss, no logic except to discourage you.
It's because people know Foxi doesn't need to join BASH with a 5k HP build with no defensive abilities just to allow people to farm them as quickly as possible. People also know Foxi can at least put some form of effort into not getting farmed if they wanted to, but the reactions and arguments can be kinda funny.
It's because people know Foxi doesn't need to join BASH with a 5k HP build with no defensive abilities just to allow people to farm them as quickly as possible. People also know Foxi can at least put some form of effort into not getting farmed if they wanted to, but the reactions and arguments can be kinda funny.
I love learning how to fight better--but that only happens when you aren't beaten in 20 seconds every time, and when you can actually damage your opponents.
I really enjoy BASH when the top-tier PvPers aren't there. Fights last a while for me, I get to try strategy, and I have fun.
When the high-end PvPers join, it isn't fun and I often just leave.
Lol no it was more like I didn't like the way foxi didn't even try to survive on it. It's not like you don't have 100ft attacks or even 50 ft attacks with a flight TP allowing you to hover above people. I don't see what the need is to jump in the middle of people just typeing and moving to make sure you're always in the middle of everything. Foxi knew what he was doing when doing that and I know he's a good enough player to know not to just stand in the middle like that letting someone win and not even trying to fight.
Lol no it was more like I didn't like the way foxi didn't even try to survive on it. It's not like you don't have 100ft attacks or even 50 ft attacks with a flight TP allowing you to hover above people. I don't see what the need is to jump in the middle of people just typeing and moving to make sure you're always in the middle of everything. Foxi knew what he was doing when doing that and I know he's a good enough player to know not to just stand in the middle like that letting someone win and not even trying to fight.
Can never win with these people! One day I'm being called a coward for using flight to keep distance, the next I'm being scolded for getting up close! T3T
Can never win with these people! One day I'm being called a coward for using flight to keep distance, the next I'm being scolded for getting up close! T3T
You have a choice between 'effective' and 'honorable'; choose one (to be fair, you can choose neither).
Can never win with these people! One day I'm being called a coward for using flight to keep distance, the next I'm being scolded for getting up close! T3T
Huh since when have I ever called anyone a coward like come on my play style involves running and hiding almost as much as Eve's... <_< You should always try to max your distance with what you have, going closer than 50ft with a 100ft power is kinda a waste.
Meanwhile melees stay outside of 100 ft range to not get hit by 100 ft attacks because tab targeting.
You heard it here, first, folks. Melee builds abuse range the most in this game.
Well they do, biggest advice I can give to a melee DPS is to hide behind something until they come close enough for you just run out at them and catch them running towards you. Then get the hell outa there ASAP if you aren't gonna expect to kill them any time soon. <_<
Well they do, biggest advice I can give to a melee DPS is to hide behind something until they come close enough for you just run out at them and catch them running towards you. Then get the hell outa there ASAP if you aren't gonna expect to kill them any time soon. <_<
You forgot about the part where Force Geyser interrupted your Active Defense when you jumped out of the hiding spot.
1st ZA - First time wasn't so bad, Started as a Zombie, I think I was able to take someone down with a Blast power(With help), struggled but most 'Fun' out of the Three.
2nd B.A.S.H - Everything I did proved futile, one individual allowed me to last more then 3 seconds but downed me every-time, at-least I could do something, but that all went south when a Electric Build and Messiah joined, was Spawn killed and Teleporting everywhere so that I couldn't get a shot off then was Ego Sleeped and massive damage Burst to death, Devices included, Not one Down on my end...
3rd ZA - Was Zombie, again, this time Rikku was AD Cycling MD/Unbreakable, nothing I did do anything, kept getting 2GM'ed to death, how Droll, Lost Cause, Quit... I don't know how the hell you're suppose to get anywhere playing this without other's being your level, but that's not going to happen...
Overall, no wonder the Devs don't care for PvP cause it's a Human choice, and unfortunately most don't care, Sorry IMP, I tried, but just like life it's unforgiving which it doesn't have to be but that's the will of people and the circumstance we live in.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
2nd B.A.S.H - Everything I did proved futile, one individual allowed me to last more then 3 seconds but downed me every-time, at-least I could do something, but that all went south when a Electric Build and Messiah joined, was Spawn killed and Teleporting everywhere so that I couldn't get a shot off then was Ego Sleeped and massive damage Burst to death, Devices included, Not one Down on my end...
Yeah, when some people are in BASH, it's too punishing and too hard to even get in practice.
As I've said before only join BASH when people you are friends with and who are powerful enough to stop them are also joining BASH because else Eve and Messiah will be hunting you from stealth.
Try being the lone zombie in ZA against a team of survivors with two heals who both can res! Talk about futile...
and when I join BASH I spend 90% of my time running away and hiding...sometimes I'll pop out and make an attack, then promptly get squished. Good times.
Don't worry guys, I have been recording videos of my time in hero games on my pve characters and I will post it soon to help promote pvp. People well get a good honest look at what goes on in hero games and see that all of our claims are true. I am sure after watching the videos people will be lining up to join hero games o3o
Don't worry guys, I have been recording videos of my time in hero games on my pve characters and I will post it soon to help promote pvp. People well get a good honest look at what goes on in hero games and see that all of our claims are true. I am sure after watching the videos people will be lining up to join hero games o3o
I hope it wont be you standing in the middle letting eve kill you 0-10. ;D
Yeah ZA is tough when you are the zombie against a super tanky team especially when you don't really have enough damage to kill them. And then when you do you find out the just res up again. It takes at least 3 DPS zombies really to counter healing / ressing teams in ZA. If you don't wanna get squished as soon as you pop out you could just do what I do and use MD while in combat and just run about hiding while it is on CD.
Don't worry guys, I have been recording videos of my time in hero games on my pve characters and I will post it soon to help promote pvp. People well get a good honest look at what goes on in hero games and see that all of our claims are true. I am sure after watching the videos people will be lining up to join hero games o3o
I've had a few good experiences where I got to really have fun and try things out. They are heavily outnumbered by lousy experiences.
I hope it wont be you standing in the middle letting eve kill you 0-10. ;D
So far I have me on my pve melee character. By necessity I am in the middle, but I have not run into Eve yet. Don't worry IMP, once Eve realizes I am on a squishy pve toon I am sure she will not engage in any actions that would make copvp look like a hostile environment. o3o
I've had a few good experiences where I got to really have fun and try things out. They are heavily outnumbered by lousy experiences.
I will only film what actually happens. It will be up to the viewer to determine if what is going on in the video is good or lousy. I have full unwavering faith that people will see what is in the video and firmly rate it as "good" and "worth getting into". o3o
My DoT telepath did better in BASH than any other toon I've brought there. And that is only on my first such outing, without even being that used to fighting PvP with this hero.
My DoT telepath did better in BASH than any other toon I've brought there. And that is only on my first such outing, without even being that used to fighting PvP with this hero.
Wacky!
Yeah mental storm is almost certainly one of the best if not the best tagging power as for just being able to place the DoT on someone and run off. By the time that person is killed by a burst dps or when people gank him you'll get the kill from it as the damage numbers add up to being enough to get the tag.
Comments
WTG my mods/devices to Amyjia. o3o
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
I wouldn't tell them that. I would tell them "Don't que for BASH, que for ZA instead, and then just wait with the rest of us for a fix to the que bug so you can que for more team pvp."
BASH isn't for everybody... primarily because it's a terrible idea in a tab-target mmo. I know I think it's stupid (despite nearly always winning or getting close when I do end up in there).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Went into BASH with melee, rampage-built tank.
I was so pitiful, wasn't even worth trying. My support toon did better.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
So far behind the other three toons there was no point in even tagging.
Dang.
The good toons had these things in common as far as I could tell:
MD on short cooldown (number one thing)
Ascension
Teleport
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
No one was mean or jerky.
Being about as good a regular NPC mobs to these heroes simply isn't fun. It's pointless. Not even good enough to get in "practice".
Alas.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
BASH is definitely hard mode. I brought a character in that throws 25-30k force cascades and still barely held my own. The every man for himself nature of it, I think there's a reason why pre-bug it was the least popular mode. PVP's more fun when it's team oriented.
That said, when you actually do get a build sorted that can keep up even to a moderate degree? It's pretty damn fun to beat some faces, especially if they're the ones that previously stomped you a new one.
RIP Caine
Pure tanks don't tend to do well since points come through kills, so no surprise there. I feel you on this, and it's why I can't stand pvping with a defensive passive. I hate that feeling of throwing everything I have at someone, and seeing nothing happen to their hit points, and the builds required to make it work don't interest me (I had one once, it worked great, but was ultimately not fun enough).
Yes, those three powers do quite a bit of good in pvp; MD more so than the other two. Did your darkness toon have Ebon Ruin? Was it super squishy type of dps toon? Burstrrilla tagtics :P
I have dps toons that aren't particularly optimized for pvp (5k HP, only heal is the slow over time one in power armor), but still manage to have some fun with them (ZA is best for those, zombie side).
It helps if you happen to enjoy building bursty toons.
BASH is rarely about you getting a kill. It generally ends up being "hey for some reason that guy's health went a good chunk below full... everyone pile on them!". Oddly enough, BASH is a team sport most of the time.. you're just not always on the team. Generally if someone is getting solo kills it's because they're going after the squishies who are easy to nail down.
killing things in PvE is like being presented with several glasses of water and being told "Okay, all you have to do is take these glasses and slowly pour them out". Killing someone in PvP is more like "Okay you see that greased up pig? hold it down and get it to swallow this giant pill", and if that doesn't sound fun to you then it's likely you won't find much fun in co's pvp (though keep in mind, there is always the option to wait until someone has wrestled the pig down, and then run up and punch the pill down it's throat uwu)
At least no on was mean or jerky o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Unless you're me and end up with people being super weary that you may be out there ready to burst them. <_< But yeah most of my kills are usually 100%-0%. A non squishy will usually be in the middle of everyone more but most likely run away less as well. This can mean they are still a reletively easy target if I am able to kill them in a ice nade - omi - rimefire - sr combo. It's a little to hard to double SR and rimefire on a single target in BASH as you don't usually get enough time to do that.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
My main toon, support AoPM teleporter, can survive very well, and tag for some defeats.
I will rebuild another of my toons for PvP specifically and see where it leads me.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Same story--I was not even relevant to the combatants. A combination of frustrating and boring. My attacks did almost no damage to my enemies, and they cut me down in less than 5 seconds generally, despite defense of 300 and nearly 13K health.
The new build went with AoPM as passive, Con primary with dodge spec, legion gear including dodge/avoidance, short cooldowns. Had MD, Ascension, and Resurgence. Nice devices like nec elixir and omi strength. Melee based powers including demolish/haymaker combo (with trauma).
I tried. I really did.
This is why the Devs don't care about PvP, as well as most players: it's too frustrating for most players to get into. The price of entry is simply too high.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Okay let me describe to you every part of where you went wrong on the attempt at a PvP build...
1. You seem to of misunderstood what a PVP build is.
2. AOPM DOESN'T make people increadably tanky. it gives people nice heals and this is the biggest challenge when taking on a AOPM user, their damage and defense is both average and fairly "inbetween" offense and defense. They may seem tankier due to higher healing but that's about it really.
3. CON primary is just... So... Meh. If you like losing all your damage then go ahead but go strength all the way if you wanna have an easier time in PvP.
4. Nec elixir doesn't work in PvP, ER will remove it.
5. Using resurgence instead of unbreakable for the rotation means you don't have perma AD's, it's a viable choice as an AD but you have to actually know when to use the burst heal well. Green is one of the best at doing this however most people just stick to the unbreakable rotation.
6. Dodge / avoidance was nerfed, you would of been much better off going for a pure defense build using str primary. One avoidance core however is usually okay as it will make you even more unkillable while MD is up, but yeah more defense you have more offense you have... Gg as a choice.
7. Melee without any sort of CC especially haymaker is very painful to attempt to do even on a tank. Especially seeing as you didn't go for a full burst haymaker but went for trauma on it which you wouldn't be able to get off much on people as it's melee. Demolish is nice but is better with an int build with other forms of resistance debuffing to be able to cut out all their defenses.
All in all with 13k hp on a melee build without any sort of strong holding to get them still and a lacking burst with a haymaker only on r2 you really would make it hard to play BASH especially if you are new'ish to it.
Now all these things I said doesn't mean there is only one way to build a toon viable for PvP. There are a few however this isn't one of them neither is it original or themed so you can't really complain about PvP being against that stuff either.
What did you mean by price? You mean it's hard to start getting into and understand what is going on in it? Clearly you didn't mean gear as you stated you had that expensive gear and devices. And as I have said before I've won BASH on a level 31 before.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Thanks for your careful advice, by the way, Hinky.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
That wasn't what I meant, as I said at the end this doesn't mean that there is only one way to do it.
Unbreakable isn't needed however not having it with MD means you actually have to check if your MD is up or not, while it isn't up get the hell outa there.
if you want a haymaker toon to be viable being a aopm "tank" using CON primary really isn't the way to go. If you want CON primary to work at all in PvP I would suggest you go for defiant instead of AOPM as that would fix any energy problems anyway.
You need a hold to get them still before charging a full r3 haymaker really. I always check if I have a knock / root / hold on each build I make. If I don't have one of them I check if I have any room to get them in anyway, if not and I don't consider them to be needed I don't get them. But most of the time they are very useful, especially hold and knock. If you wanted you could get something basic like ego sleep or bolas as a 50ft hold then knock them back with haymaker before sleeping and going back in for another haymaker.
When in BASH careful not to attract too much unwanted attention. As soon as one person starts hitting you it's rather likely another person will jump on the kill wagon to try getting that kill as well. Make sure that the number of people hitting you doesn't build up too much as a tank and as a squishier build just make sure no one ever hits you, get out of there ASAP as soon as someone is chasing.
The minimap is VERY useful in CO, it even tells you the way people are facing so you can see if someone is looking on you as if it's a 2D game, kinda funny to do especially when me and eve look at each other both checking the mini map it literally turns into a 2D flash game. <_<
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
Haha not at all, it's a good build and makes sense as a build.
Copy building isn't really a thing as the min maxed combo's are limited to about 10-15 or so viable PvP build concepts. Ice form has chill on it which is the best snare, ice blast can hit like 2gm damage and SR - rimefire are two of the largest burst powers which just so happen to be elemental damage. Also a problem with the settup for the build is there is no nailed but omicron fixes it, ice grenades is a blatant choice as a device using ice form.
I wouldn't say it's copy building at all it's just building smart.
I've been using the SR ice form build for over a year now though, it's changed a lot over time trust me. Just look at how the build first looked: http://youtu.be/2JLByYtvBfA :O
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
All this focus on builds might give the impression that pvp is actually entirely about the build you use. While there's no doubt that build is important, this mentality might cause people to forget that what you do in pvp also has a big impact on how well you'll do; specifically, movement, attentiveness, and timing.
If people say "Okay, I made a pvp build just like what the other people have, and that's all I'll need" they might go into pvp haphazardly spamming everything they have, heedlessly rushing towards their targets in perpetual tunnel vision... then wonder why they didn't kill anyone and got stomperfied. Those people might assume that there is some other statistical advantage they don't possess that the others do, and then label that as some sort of barrier to entry even though it doesn't actually exist.
Why I remember when I thought PvPers were just invincible 24/7... until one day I realized that the people I was attacking were just really good about timing when to use their MD. They would see me come rushing at them, know I was about to go nuts, so they would just pop MD and rope-a-dope me. Once I learned that I actually have to be a bit more thoughtful about when to press and when to fall back, people started feeling less invincible.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hell, I pvp entirely wrong then. Half of the joy I get out of the hero games stems from "I'm going to throw a wall of damage at you, let's see who flinches first".
Roughbear, one of the first times I went in pvp recently, I went in with the same idea. Unstoppable unleashed rage haymaker tosser. Even with a snare, it was *hard* to get a haymaker to land. Melee pvp isn't the easiest, especially charged melee. Works a treat for duels, but bash is a different monster entirely.
RIP Caine
Yeah you need a reliable knock or hold really as a melee. I like the way you say it works a treat in duels, maybe against easier fights but against any BASH builds (as in people who use that build for BASH not really builds specifically made for it) you most likely are not gonna witn using a melee build without any holds.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
It's a viable strategy--as viable as Strafing Run.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Take care, Teleport is easy-to-target if anyone have Malvan Emblem or any Stealth sight gear/mods with enough INT. o3o
I don't Teleport much because we can nearly do nochin while Teleporting. o3o
R3 teleport is still quite fast.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Yeah I use R3 teleport. If you go behind something it will enhance your stealth and usually even with stealth sight it'll break their target allowing you to get away.
Also teleport has slow fall on it so if you use teleport with either super speed or super jump you can actually get a pretty fast flight looking thing going. It's kinda cool and allows you to hover above combat and come down upon your prey.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Oh I don't expect to win cause I know I can't keep up, (Tho I try to enjoy myself, but being rendered useless & being Downed in under 3 seconds flat isn't fun, Using Melee, no chance...) it's just this thread offered to help give a win to a less fortunate and maybe feel better about being disadvantaged cause I choose to play otherwise. :I
Everything should have a purpose and a chance, not just cherry picked designs and devices to excel, but that's life ay.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Maybe I should start queing as my power armor character again... but then people always yell at me for going 0-10 in two minutes and ruining everything u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yelled at for win/lose? O.-.o Win I can understand but Loss, no logic except to discourage you.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
It's because people know Foxi doesn't need to join BASH with a 5k HP build with no defensive abilities just to allow people to farm them as quickly as possible. People also know Foxi can at least put some form of effort into not getting farmed if they wanted to, but the reactions and arguments can be kinda funny.
Hey, it's 5,008... u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I really enjoy BASH when the top-tier PvPers aren't there. Fights last a while for me, I get to try strategy, and I have fun.
When the high-end PvPers join, it isn't fun and I often just leave.
That is why I wish there were a ranking system.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Can never win with these people! One day I'm being called a coward for using flight to keep distance, the next I'm being scolded for getting up close! T3T
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Huh since when have I ever called anyone a coward like come on my play style involves running and hiding almost as much as Eve's... <_< You should always try to max your distance with what you have, going closer than 50ft with a 100ft power is kinda a waste.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I fight with my Love Cascade, which is 100ft range, in melee range when ppl are doing melee. o3o
You heard it here, first, folks. Melee builds abuse range the most in this game.
Well they do, biggest advice I can give to a melee DPS is to hide behind something until they come close enough for you just run out at them and catch them running towards you. Then get the hell outa there ASAP if you aren't gonna expect to kill them any time soon. <_<
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
You forgot about the part where Force Geyser interrupted your Active Defense when you jumped out of the hiding spot.
I don't use MD in combat anymore, I usually use it just before going into combat and I have those 15 seconds to do something.
However with how AD cycling is it's more like 3-4 seconds.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
1st ZA - First time wasn't so bad, Started as a Zombie, I think I was able to take someone down with a Blast power(With help), struggled but most 'Fun' out of the Three.
2nd B.A.S.H - Everything I did proved futile, one individual allowed me to last more then 3 seconds but downed me every-time, at-least I could do something, but that all went south when a Electric Build and Messiah joined, was Spawn killed and Teleporting everywhere so that I couldn't get a shot off then was Ego Sleeped and massive damage Burst to death, Devices included, Not one Down on my end...
3rd ZA - Was Zombie, again, this time Rikku was AD Cycling MD/Unbreakable, nothing I did do anything, kept getting 2GM'ed to death, how Droll, Lost Cause, Quit... I don't know how the hell you're suppose to get anywhere playing this without other's being your level, but that's not going to happen...
Overall, no wonder the Devs don't care for PvP cause it's a Human choice, and unfortunately most don't care, Sorry IMP, I tried, but just like life it's unforgiving which it doesn't have to be but that's the will of people and the circumstance we live in.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Yeah, when some people are in BASH, it's too punishing and too hard to even get in practice.
I gotta try to get people into team duels.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
As I've said before only join BASH when people you are friends with and who are powerful enough to stop them are also joining BASH because else Eve and Messiah will be hunting you from stealth.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
and when I join BASH I spend 90% of my time running away and hiding...sometimes I'll pop out and make an attack, then promptly get squished. Good times.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I hope it wont be you standing in the middle letting eve kill you 0-10. ;D
Yeah ZA is tough when you are the zombie against a super tanky team especially when you don't really have enough damage to kill them. And then when you do you find out the just res up again. It takes at least 3 DPS zombies really to counter healing / ressing teams in ZA. If you don't wanna get squished as soon as you pop out you could just do what I do and use MD while in combat and just run about hiding while it is on CD.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I've had a few good experiences where I got to really have fun and try things out. They are heavily outnumbered by lousy experiences.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
So far I have me on my pve melee character. By necessity I am in the middle, but I have not run into Eve yet. Don't worry IMP, once Eve realizes I am on a squishy pve toon I am sure she will not engage in any actions that would make copvp look like a hostile environment. o3o
I will only film what actually happens. It will be up to the viewer to determine if what is going on in the video is good or lousy. I have full unwavering faith that people will see what is in the video and firmly rate it as "good" and "worth getting into". o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Wacky!
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Yeah mental storm is almost certainly one of the best if not the best tagging power as for just being able to place the DoT on someone and run off. By the time that person is killed by a burst dps or when people gank him you'll get the kill from it as the damage numbers add up to being enough to get the tag.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)