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In the age of Superhero media madness - why isn't Champs bursting with players?

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  • kneddknedd Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    Everything is easy, it's just a computer game. We know that because we play it.

    No idea what you're going on about, but I'm glad you are playing.

    The game needs updating and advertising. There are ways to do it that are currently untapped; that was my point.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    And those ways don't require resources?
    Since, if you haven't noticed this game lacks that. To do that stuff you said were easy to do.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    knedd wrote: »
    No idea what you're going on about, but I'm glad you are playing.
    He's referencing all those people who claim that whatever their pet project is could be done "easily", because apparently they believe all there is to programming is shoving pixels around a screen.

    Meanwhile, some of us remember when the Nighthawk event went live, and managed to crash the Chat server for weeks. Somebody had a pretty funny sig image about that for a while...

    Incidentally, addressing an earlier point, CO is on Steam for free. So is STO. Don't know about NW; since I dislike its control scheme so very much, I don't play it, so I never looked for it on Steam. (In fact, Steam has a deal with STO - buy their Starter Pack, and you get access to the exclusive Steamrunner-class escort.) The fact that it's there could use some advertising, obviously, but it is indeed there.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2014
    ignengi wrote: »
    Several years ago, in the store I would see a great looking game called City of Heroes. Every time I saw it, I picked up the box and every time I put it down in disappointment as it required a monthly sub fee to play.

    My income is never steady enough that I will tie myself to a subscription. Oh well, their loss I guess. CO has gotten more money from me than I ever would have thought of spending on a game. And their F2P model has even converted me to LTS.

    She wasn't talking about goinng f2p in general, but about badly made f2p system.

    CO ONLY forte is the freeform system. That's the only genuine advantage this game has over competition.

    Not the costume creator, because dressing game will not keep many people for very long.

    And as a class-based game CO is very average.


    Except CO put freeform behind subscription/LTS/$50, which is enough to made it a non-factor in f2p monetisation. In the end there's nothing to sell to impulse buyers, except for keys and lockboxes, as we have now. Hence our endless cycle of the lockbox related events.

    Game must stay afloat, but there is simple no other thing to sell than lockboxes.

    If anyone had brains to made f2p system where subscribers and lifetimers have access to the all powersets, but f2p accounts only to the few most basic ones and need to pay for anything else, including new powersets, then this game could monetize itself the way, for an example, DCUO does it.

    And actually could be advertised as freeform game.

    Which is purely theoretical discussion anyway.

    For CO is far too late to change this system, it should be made on the very beginning of the f2p. Now it's pretty much done.
    The only thing that could change it would be a complete reboot as a CO2/whatever. Which is just not possible.

    *shrug*

    Whatever. Current system will keep the game afloat. It will never improve and we certainly can't expect anything substantial, but at least it will not follow CoH/V's demise.

    Not the best, but could be worse.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    You happen to realize that Monday and Tuesday after it happen to be workdays? Check the seat sales over the weekend. Spider-Man 2 is topping the box office chart. Genre not popular my behind.

    Some people are just born to make bad projections from poorly-timed, anecdotal population samples.
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Some people are just born to make bad projections from poorly-timed, anecdotal population samples.

    It was funny, because it was the same type of bull**** he does with CO's population numbers. ONE theater, and he thinks he's an expert on how well the Amazing Spider-Man 2 is doing.
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    Incidentally, addressing an earlier point, CO is on Steam for free. So is STO. Don't know about NW; since I dislike its control scheme so very much, I don't play it, so I never looked for it on Steam. (In fact, Steam has a deal with STO - buy their Starter Pack, and you get access to the exclusive Steamrunner-class escort.) The fact that it's there could use some advertising, obviously, but it is indeed there.

    I run all three Cryptic games through Steam. Except for when there is an Arc only promotion, then I fire Arc up, it finds the Steam install, and I do what needs to be done and Steam is none-the-wiser I was two timing it.
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  • deathsentry2012deathsentry2012 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    To me, former CoH player who loves a great deal about CO (unparalleled costume creation, active fighting mode, good approach for enhancements/gear management), with the lack of content, I know I couldn't recommend this game to anyone. I now have like 6 level 40s and while I enjoyed leveling them and playing content, you can do that only but so many times over.

    Without a company that will continue to add new content (vs. just recycling the same alerts over and over..and over and over..again), it will be hard to get much less retain a playerbase. For me, I love freeform and something I'll never be able to get anywhere else, and so will continue with CO ...but I do think if there were other games out there more in the MMO style with continuing content upgrades where the controls work on a PC (unlike DCUO, Marvel online, etc). But Cryptic/PWE just don't seem committed to the game. Their business model is more focused on a steady maintenance stream from the existing player base without having to expend too much money into enhancements. The game is really just in maintenance mode..in my view
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    To me, former CoH player who loves a great deal about CO (unparalleled costume creation, active fighting mode, good approach for enhancements/gear management), with the lack of content, I know I couldn't recommend this game to anyone. I now have like 6 level 40s and while I enjoyed leveling them and playing content, you can do that only but so many times over.

    To me a former CoH player I know I couldn't recommend CO to friends because of all the annoying former CoH players.
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  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    There were only seven people besides myself in the theater for Spider Man 2 on Monday night, meanwhile about 60 feet out the front door the sports bar had at least thirty twenty something to middle aged dudes drinking away their dreams.

    The genre is not as popular as you drink it is.

    384 million dollars in 5 days doesn't seem too bad to me. Maybe those twenty somethings were drinking away their disappointment with the handling of an iconic comic book incident (the death of Gwen Stacy) after seeing the movie :biggrin:

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I thought that film was not bad at all. Green Goblin looked more like the Goblin than the Rami one. My only gripe.. Rhino ...was sorta pointless.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    nepht wrote: »
    I thought that film was not bad at all. Green Goblin looked more like the Goblin than the Rami one. My only gripe.. Rhino ...was sorta pointless.
    Haven't seen it yet myself, but I gather Rhino appeared so briefly only as a setup for the Sinister Six in an upcoming movie. Kind of like the way Thanos appeared in only a post-credit scene in The Avengers in order to set up his eventual appearance, whenever that might be...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • skylygerskylyger Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Gawds spiderman 2 was so terribad. You know I just dont know whats so bloody hard about making these movies. We have a well written series of classic coming of age hero stories and they keep mucking them up.

    In this spidey Universe apparently norm osbourne is a joke of a wannabe tony stark. The Rhino armor is like power armor that has more in common with the villain of ironman 1.

    But think about it, back in the last spidey trilogy as bad as they too flubbed things, they had an amazing J. Jonah, Norman Osbourne, aunt may, uncle ben. Really it was a constant joke to me and my friends that the weakest castings in them where peter and MJ.

    Dont get me wrong I love kirsten Dunst and have since I was a lad of about the same age as her seeing her in interview with a vampire. But she is not the curvaceous drop dead gorgeous and knock their eyes out the back of their heads world class model beauty that MJ is supposed to possess.

    And peter, gawds they never seem to get a good peter. Seriously just cast harry potters actor as him already as long as he can drop the accent. He has the come of age as HP, now he needs to actually get to portray a grown up hero if you ask me.

    Or think of this, at the end of Spidey one, we had a fake out near MJ death in the style of the classic death of Gwen Stacy, and even had Norman die spot on, honestly was maybe the one truly great moment of the movie filmed. Now we get in the new spidey 2 Gwen dieing, but to the wrong bloody osbourne, and no self destructive self inflicted wounding of him by the glider.

    Gawds the movie has me so frelling pissed off days later still.

    Maybe a fan edit using parts of all the different 5 spidey movies we have had in the last 15 or so years could create something actually passably resembling one of the actual classic comic stories.
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Because there are other things to play that CO would need to compete against and that would require money to be put into it. This would be a large gamble for PWE and probably one they are not willing to take.
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    nextnametaken works it:

    There were only seven people besides myself in the theater for Spider Man 2 on Monday night, meanwhile about 60 feet out the front door the sports bar had at least thirty twenty something to middle aged dudes drinking away their dreams.

    The genre is not as popular as you drink it is.

    I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to note that that was masterfully done!

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    I love awful puns! :tongue:
    'Dec out

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  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    skylyger wrote: »
    Gawds spiderman 2 was so terribad. You know I just dont know whats so bloody hard about making these movies. We have a well written series of classic coming of age hero stories and they keep mucking them up.<snip>

    What makes it so hard? In a word, Fox. Fox has a track record of not understanding what viewers enjoy, because they focus group everything to death. See: Spider-man 3, x-men 3, Firefly's cancellation, Futurama's first cancellation, The Family Guy's first cancellation, the Star Wars prequels, The Sarah Conner Chronicles cancellation, the Arrested Development cancellation, etc... They need to just drop the franchise already, we'll never see it done justice if they hold the reigns. Hell, I'm amazed X-men first class is still great, but I know Michael Fassbender, and I'm pretty sure it's because he'd walk at the drop of a hat if the script wasn't up to his expectations.

    I actually like Garfield's Peter. He's young, geeky looking, scrawny... He fits every note of what I picture Peter to be. He's a solid actor, too, I feel like he just isn't given enough to work with. Thanks for the Gwen spoiler alert, too. Movie's still in the theater, innit? Not that I plan on seeing it, but that's a pretty major plot point to casually drop. And I know it's in the comics, so we expect it in the movie, but still.

    I freaking hate Kiersten Dunst. The only good movies she's ever done, imo, were Interview and Melancholia. But the latter was because between Lars Von Trier and Charlotte Gainsbourg, a monkey could put forth an oscar-worthy performance.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What makes it so hard? In a word, Fox. Fox has a track record of not understanding what viewers enjoy, because they focus group everything to death. See: Spider-man 3, x-men 3, Firefly's cancellation, Futurama's first cancellation, The Family Guy's first cancellation, the Star Wars prequels, The Sarah Conner Chronicles cancellation, the Arrested Development cancellation, etc... They need to just drop the franchise already, we'll never see it done justice if they hold the reigns. Hell, I'm amazed X-men first class is still great, but I know Michael Fassbender, and I'm pretty sure it's because he'd walk at the drop of a hat if the script wasn't up to his expectations.

    I actually like Garfield's Peter. He's young, geeky looking, scrawny... He fits every note of what I picture Peter to be. He's a solid actor, too, I feel like he just isn't given enough to work with. Thanks for the Gwen spoiler alert, too. Movie's still in the theater, innit? Not that I plan on seeing it, but that's a pretty major plot point to casually drop. And I know it's in the comics, so we expect it in the movie, but still.

    I freaking hate Kiersten Dunst. The only good movies she's ever done, imo, were Interview and Melancholia. But the latter was because between Lars Von Trier and Charlotte Gainsbourg, a monkey could put forth an oscar-worthy performance.

    Uhh Family Guy should have stayed cancelled to be blunt. And Futurama still is not even remotely as good as it use to be. X3 was also because Singer decided to leave mid project and everything was dumped into the new guys lap, and Spider 3 was more or less Raimi having no ideas left and all his Raimi-ness finally coming to the fore considering Spiderman 1 and 2 weren't all that good either with Emo McGuire in the lead. And before anyone tries to defend it, he was emo in the first and second one just as much as the third one. The only difference they put him in an outfit to match, finally.

    And as far as Firefly, it's one of those niche things, I can't say I enjoy it and the character development isn't as strong as the fans like to claim it is. In fact the first episode I was watching on Netflix made me facepalm hardcore because it hit every last Whedon trope on the head fast and loose.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Gwen's death is about as much a spoiler as finding out that the Winter Soldier is Bucky Barnes - possibly less so, as the Winter Soldier storyline happened in the '90s as I recall, while the Goblin threw Gwen off that bridge sometime in the '70s.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • artmanpweartmanpwe Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What makes it so hard? In a word, Fox. Fox has a track record of not understanding what viewers enjoy, because they focus group everything to death. See: Spider-man 3, x-men 3, Firefly's cancellation, Futurama's first cancellation, The Family Guy's first cancellation, the Star Wars prequels, The Sarah Conner Chronicles cancellation, the Arrested Development cancellation, etc... They need to just drop the franchise already, we'll never see it done justice if they hold the reigns. Hell, I'm amazed X-men first class is still great, but I know Michael Fassbender, and I'm pretty sure it's because he'd walk at the drop of a hat if the script wasn't up to his expectations.

    I actually like Garfield's Peter. He's young, geeky looking, scrawny... He fits every note of what I picture Peter to be. He's a solid actor, too, I feel like he just isn't given enough to work with. Thanks for the Gwen spoiler alert, too. Movie's still in the theater, innit? Not that I plan on seeing it, but that's a pretty major plot point to casually drop. And I know it's in the comics, so we expect it in the movie, but still.

    I freaking hate Kiersten Dunst. The only good movies she's ever done, imo, were Interview and Melancholia. But the latter was because between Lars Von Trier and Charlotte Gainsbourg, a monkey could put forth an oscar-worthy performance.

    Also, it's not like acting as someone on anti-depressants is a stretch for an actor/actress.
    ...Since 2009.
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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jonsills gets a small pedant bit:

    Gwen's death is about as much a spoiler as finding out that the Winter Soldier is Bucky Barnes - possibly less so, as the Winter Soldier storyline happened in the '90s as I recall, while the Goblin threw Gwen off that bridge sometime in the '70s.

    Winter Soldier was mid-'00s (it started just as I was quitting comics), but yeah, I still agree with your point.
    'Dec out

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  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    Gwen's death is about as much a spoiler as finding out that the Winter Soldier is Bucky Barnes - possibly less so, as the Winter Soldier storyline happened in the '90s as I recall, while the Goblin threw Gwen off that bridge sometime in the '70s.

    When there is presumably going to be an Amazing Spider-Man 3, it is not so much a question of if but when.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I had no idea reading comic books was a pre-requisite for watching superhero movies.

    Champions Online doesn't do better because the core game isn't that great. Outside of fashion, this game is totally unremarkable.
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  • gandalesgandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    sterga wrote: »
    I had no idea reading comic books was a pre-requisite for watching superhero movies.

    Champions Online doesn't do better because the core game isn't that great. Outside of fashion, this game is totally unremarkable.

    The other 2 super hero games are not particulary brilliant either. They just tend to have more content because there is an expectation of gathering more players, by exploiting their corresponding franchaises

    I'm guessing that pwe has not invested more in CO because it does not have a reason to believe that the increased revenue would cover costs and a decent profit compared to other pwe's games.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    gandales wrote: »
    The other 2 super hero games are not particulary brilliant either. They just tend to have more content because there is an expectation of gathering more players, by exploiting their corresponding franchaises

    I'm guessing that pwe has not invested more in CO because it does not have a reason to believe that the increased revenue would cover costs and a decent profit compared to other pwe's games.

    I think they have been evaluating how much content they would have to put in, how much they would have to fix of the game (because let's be blunt, the games broken not just by bugs but on a fundamental level of both challenge and replayability) as well as going forward with content updates. That being said I do believe something is coming in the pipelines besides lockboxes. It's just going to take time, and whether people like it or not, those lockboxes and vehicles help pay for that content. Contrary to popular belief there is no make it now button for development.
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  • ekersonekerson Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    draogn wrote: »
    Part of the problem is a lot of missed chances, the launch day nerf, and then the VB fiasco all didn't help the game nor Cryptic's reputation. Then when you add on the lack of support and any kind of communication from the devs, those who would be interested have gone else where. You only get one chance at a first impression.

    Sure some may give the game a second or even a third chance, but we really haven't gained much in the past few years. Some become devices, costumes, and some alerts while the rest of the game sits in limbo, heck one of the features that was heavily hyped, the Nemesis system, has all but been ignored since NemCon was introduced.

    The game has its fun points, but a lot of those points are buried beneath all the incomplete systems.

    You are right about the reputation...Cryptic's rep is in the toilet. All the other games I play we joke about how poorly they do things here. But I'm sure not everyone at Cryptic is a total tool, but decisions seem to be done poorly there.:smile:
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    Gwen's death is about as much a spoiler as finding out that the Winter Soldier is Bucky Barnes - possibly less so, as the Winter Soldier storyline happened in the '90s as I recall, while the Goblin threw Gwen off that bridge sometime in the '70s.

    She was in the comics for 8 years, not a small bit of time. It's a reboot, which means they might be throwing rules out the window. The Sinister Six started around when she was introduced, leading to again her being Peter's girl for 8 years while he fought em.

    Nothing about that leads me to think that a major character's death is obvious, or in any way expected. Just sayin. I won't see it anyway, so I don't care, but a death of a major character while a film is still in theaters *always* merits a spoiler tag. 's just polite, innit?
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  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    She was in the comics for 8 years, not a small bit of time. It's a reboot, which means they might be throwing rules out the window. The Sinister Six started around when she was introduced, leading to again her being Peter's girl for 8 years while he fought em.

    Nothing about that leads me to think that a major character's death is obvious, or in any way expected. Just sayin. I won't see it anyway, so I don't care, but a death of a major character while a film is still in theaters *always* merits a spoiler tag. 's just polite, innit?

    You are right. My apologies. I wasnt thinking when I posted the spoiler.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Oh, I wasn't really even offended. lol this kinda ballooned more than I expected. Don't take that to mean I was annoyed, more explaining the spoiler tag pov. No hard feelings, ya?
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
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  • edited May 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    sterga wrote: »
    I had no idea reading comic books was a pre-requisite for watching superhero movies.

    Champions Online doesn't do better because the core game isn't that great. Outside of fashion, this game is totally unremarkable.

    I'd disagree, not many MMO's play as well as CO the main problem with Champions is not that its unremarkable its that its to easy and to short and not much to do once all the main stuff has been done.
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    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,629 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    In response to the original post, because players don't flock to a game they've never heard of nor to MMOs that don't get expansions every few months.

    We're still waiting for our second expansion. Just saying so for those who don't know.
  • jedite2012jedite2012 Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    In response to the original post, because players don't flock to a game they've never heard of nor to MMOs that don't get expansions every few months.

    We're still waiting for our second expansion. Just saying so for those who don't know.

    we had an expansion? was it the vehicles, was that the expansion?
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2014
    jedite2012 wrote: »
    we had an expansion? was it the vehicles, was that the expansion?

    Vibora Fail, Einstein.


    But I call it a fail mostly because of level lock.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I watched the Resident Evil movies to see Milla kill zombies. I was pleased with my purchases.


    What little story CO has is buried under endless bad jokes and pop culture references. Most characters just kind of appear with no context and no reason. Powers have no balance and no depth to them making building not too terribly interesting. Combat, by extension isn't very interesting either. The game is filled with random stuff to kill for no particular reason, but damn can you look fabulous doing it.

    It's not that the game is bad, it's just kind of there, hanging out, not really doing anything.
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  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Laughin, partially agreed, but I wanna add something:

    Time was, running the game on elite (where stuff actually hurt a bit, back when the mobs were actually scaled to the power level of the players and before this huge power creep took over) actually gave you *good* rewards. Better than what you used to get, there was a reason to do it. That ship has long since sailed, and with it? Any semblance of difficulty we ever had.

    I got into pretty lengthy arguments with a few people who said "I just want to run the content!" because that's good. That's what normal is for, you don't have to get roflstomped or have an elite build to play. "But it's not fair that the good gear would be gated to harder quests!" ... Because it's not fair that I have to work for a reward? I gave up arguing that a game can have both casual and fairly hardcore gameplay, based on difficulty. I do, however, remember when the slope got slippery. When there are 2 of us arguing with like half of the forums at the time about how the game would be more fun with a bit more challenge? Time to put that conversation to rest.

    I still say, though, that having a higher difficulty spawn more mobs that debuff/cc the player and rez the mobs would be flat out amazing. I want a lemurian invasion where the leviathan summons his jets and you have to fight em off while trying to kill him, not one and then the other.

    I want a game that occasionally lets go of our hand, and lets us try to walk on our own.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,629 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jedite2012 wrote: »
    we had an expansion? was it the vehicles, was that the expansion?

    Vehicles are as much of an expansion as Legion Gear was. An unnecessary, detriment to game balance and a counter to real game development.
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