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In the age of Superhero media madness - why isn't Champs bursting with players?
newplayerguy7
Posts: 61 Arc User
Superhero stuff is very popular and everywhere in the media these days - movies, TV shows, etc. Why isn't Champs overrun with people wanting to emulate what they are enjoying on the big and small screens?
Champions Online seems like the perfect venue to do this. It has great character building - so anyone can play just about any hero they want from ANY genre, giving it a great cross-over ability. The game play is fast and fun - just like the action on screen. Plus it's the only 'kid on the block' so to speak, when it comes to superhero MMOs.
Why isn't Perfect World riding the wave of the current super-popularity (read super-profitability) of the Superhero?
More people playing = more money for them and more stuff for us! A win all the way around.
Champions Online seems like the perfect venue to do this. It has great character building - so anyone can play just about any hero they want from ANY genre, giving it a great cross-over ability. The game play is fast and fun - just like the action on screen. Plus it's the only 'kid on the block' so to speak, when it comes to superhero MMOs.
Why isn't Perfect World riding the wave of the current super-popularity (read super-profitability) of the Superhero?
More people playing = more money for them and more stuff for us! A win all the way around.
Post edited by newplayerguy7 on
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I ask myself that all the time. Even in my old PNP gaming days, Dungeon hack-n-slash was always more popular than Sci-Fi and Super Heroes. The same thing seems to be true in MMO's. Why not advertise the heck out of the game in the back of comics or maybe splurge for some in-theater trailers? It seems like a no-brainer to me.
But I'm not the head of marketing for PWE so maybe the cost is just too much for them at this point.
Oh also, OP, we actually can't play any hero we want.. like the copyrighted ones from those exact movies you're talking about
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Did he wear a torn white robe with pointed hood?
But to your point, I would agree that some extra advertising and synergy might help put CO in front of people who may have not considered trying a game in the past but might after seeing a commercial during Arrow or something. But I can't really imagine the population of the game would get a permanent increase in users from it.
I sort of agree with you and sort of don't. Case in point being WoW - they managed to gain a huge audience. Mostly of people who never even played a MMO before. There's also the run away craziness of Facebook game popularity. Millions of people who never gamed before (on any level) are suddenly Farmville addicts.
But in the end this is all moot. I don't see any advertising blitzes or fancy content updates in the games future.
Coupled with basically being a known name and having decent publication, it's why Marvel Heroes and stuff like the Spiderman games are doing so much better. "I get to play as Iron Man!!1" appeals more than "I get to create whatever superhero I want!*" it seems. DCUO could be considered an exception, except it legit has more engaging and balanced gameplay, at the expense of - surprise surprise! - customization in powers and appearance! Also aforementioned star power. "I can be batman's sidekick1"
*provided that it isn't copyrighted already, but I'm assuming that's fairly implicit given what the rest of this rant's talking about. If you want to advertise the game as "be any hero you want to be, so long as it doesn't belong to another company!" be my guest you pedants.
This point kind of makes me wonder why there hasn't been a single-player CO-like game: 3rd person action where you do hero stuff. Kind of like Saints Row 4 but with less generic 'all powers!' stuff and more using it in scenarios other than 'run from cops' or 'fight ugly martians'. Project Awakened is right on the money for that sort of thing, except I haven't heard anything about it in like a year.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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I also remember all the ones who got a forced name and/or costume change.
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Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I think they're holding off advertising until a time at which displaying the game won't make it look bad
If I had never played CO, and you showed me a commercial with gameplay footage in it... I don't think I would end up playing it. I'd be like "...neat, another copy paste stand-n-spam MMO"... and if they showed a FMV that has a bunch of cool looking stuff in it that never actually happens in the game, I would end up resenting the game and the company the moment I logged in (one of my biggest miffs with Blizzard...), but of course they would never do that here :O
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Yea I totally want to play a Kung Fu panda doing a dive kick from a 9001ft altitude... onto a flimsy bridge.
And superheroes aren't innately cool, modern movies have been focusing on the person behind the mask. CO will need to channel a bit of Bioware storytelling for that - a full story involving a sidekick + romance option, a recurring nemesis, other villains that make an impression and difficult decisions that may affect your story down the road.
That's not Cryptic's forte though, same as how customization isn't Bioware's forte.
you seen the state of this game, its all about lock boxes and stupid vehicles.
And i am sure PW doesn't want to spend money on this game for advertising
Sure some may give the game a second or even a third chance, but we really haven't gained much in the past few years. Some become devices, costumes, and some alerts while the rest of the game sits in limbo, heck one of the features that was heavily hyped, the Nemesis system, has all but been ignored since NemCon was introduced.
The game has its fun points, but a lot of those points are buried beneath all the incomplete systems.
This game, for better or worse, is too much like other MMOs, you can only bank on freedom to build your way so much, especially when that freedom is actually quite limited. Champions missed it's prime opportunities because it spent too much time trying to cater to every squeaky wheel instead of sticking to their guns. Listening to the player base is the prime reason the game is in such a terrible mess. That is not to mistake they shouldn't listen to the players, but they listened too much.
There are other factors, Atari was one of them considering Atari expected to only make the game and post launch support was unneeded. But no factor is blameless; Cryptic, Atari and the player base are all the blame for parts of the whole because they make up that whole, whether some care to admit it or not.
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1. the people may be interested in the movies but not in playing a game based on it.
2. the people playing a game based on it, are more likely to want to play the character they are interested in from the movie.
3. see all previous posts
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Sure, but gonna disagree slightly. I know you didn't mention retention, but this post was close enough to home for me: the people that do try it? Why don't they stay?
The pricing at this point seems to border between archaic and insane.
But yeah, we ask, and no one on high answers, so we ask ourselves, forever and ever. Until Nepht pulls the plug. Or something.
QFT. Still the wave of superhero movies has gotten benefits to dcuo and mh.
There is no reason to invest in advertisement when the return might not even cover its cost.
atm, CO should rethink its strategy.
advertising, thats the exclusive interveiw deal they have with Massively?
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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That's not even close to what I meant.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'd like to see it up there on the screen before the superhero movie starts.
And again on the DVD.
(A man can dream, can't he?)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'd find a cat themed power armor hero (without a tail) called Iron Manx amusing.
While true I seriously doubt it hurts them either. TOR isn't doing bad, they went F2P but most MMOs trend to that now, the market just doesn't see the value of subscription model anymore. It also does nothing to prevent cheaters, bots, and gold spammers like people love to claim. it just creates an unnecessary wall in a market that is becoming picky.
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True, true. I think it was front and center in my mind because of 5/4. Man, I sure squished a lot of heads with my fingers Saturday. I mean, I get it guys, you're C&E SW-fans, but sheesh, let it go.
Personally, I think CO's biggest misstep was their free to play model. Personally, I think the best model is Buy to Play myself, you buy the box at a box price, and play, provided the actual MMO has decent content and they offer knick knacks and expansions through paid for updates. Not unlike Guild Wars 2 or how The Secret World went.
Champions misstep in their free to play model was locking out the freeform build. This game was built on customization. Instead, what they should have done, was offered a limited freeform model, locking out many of the power sets and allowing players to buy the power sets they want to customize their characters at their leisure instead of the current archetype model they have now. Of course, that bridge, as it stands, would be difficult to cross now with freeform being a $50 dollar purchase in the C-Store. Despite I believe, and feel, that allowing free players freeform option with limitations, you have a bunch of people that have spent the time or money actually buying freeform slots, and the end result is if they were to choose a method such as what I describe, they would have to figure out a method to reimburse those players, and the end result could just be more costly.
I still look fondly back from time to time and know what Champions was originally going to be, but because of doomsayers, Cryptics zealousness of trying to appease everyone, and Atari's original approach to handling an MMO and being shocked that they were expected to actually continue development of a game post launch, about the only thing I could imagine actually fixing Champions Online would either be a Final Fantasy style reborn type reboot or as others having pointed out a Champions Online 2, but this time done more towards the style of Champions that people want. But both of those ideas cost money, and that kind of investment on a 5 year old game, especially a genre that isn't that big in the MMO space, is questionable, to say the least.
Of course another huge misstep, to me, was they made all costume drops in the game account wide unlocks. Many will undoubtedly disagree but it killed the economy in this game. Costumes from the C-Store, yea, they should be account wide, but costumes that drop in the world, it creates replay-ability, albeit artificial, and it helps stimulate the economy for things that players want on their alts.
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People flock to DC and Marvel because they know those brands. Ten minutes in CO will convince you that the original developers at best had no idea what comics were. Twenty minutes into it will convince you they hated comics.
But, I have a point here-
No one's really topped 'the big bad CoX' yet. No one wants to sink the resources into something that everyone is insisting is a craze- yes, I'm sorry, I hate to break it to you, but before the year 2000, comic books weren't that big of a deal. Now, all of a sudden, everyone's an expert on comics and a huge fan because some movies came out.
So, over the last 14 years, we've not had an explosion, we've had a crawl toward popularity. Give it a couple more years, people will actually start rolling their eyes at new superhero movies. It'll get old, it'll get tired, and most people will be right there saying 'I hate superheroes, it's getting old!'. Don't deny it, because we all know that if there's one thing Hollywood can do, it's run something into the ground.
And then there's the other side of this-
Have a gander at DC's facebook page. Then Marvel's. Just read the comments. Those are the vocal majority of comic fans. These are people that honestly say you've 'ruined' comics by changing a character's costume slightly. These are people that make suicide bomber jokes at the Muslim Ms. Marvel.
Alternatively, look at the companies themselves. They'll scrap characters and shoehorn in their Mary Sues for the sake of 'diversity'. They'll shove their personal political beliefs into stories and demonize anyone who thinks alternatively. They'll kill someone off for some media buzz and bring them back a year later. For the sake of new readers, they'll take a beloved classic character and turn him into a different sexual orientation, race, age, gender, or whatever.
This is all one thing: A terrible thing to invest in.
Honestly, if I had a bazillion dollars? I wouldn't invest in a comic book superhero game. Not on your life. Sci-Fi? Maybe. Steampunk Weird West? Maybe. High Weird Fantasy? I might.
But trying to capitalize on the Superhero craze in something as delicate as an MMORPG almost sounds like Russian Roulette with an automatic rifle. Trying to appease the fanbase would be like herding coked-up cats with your ankles tied together while avoiding monkeys with straightrazors.
CoX craze was not because it had depth or was even remarkably developed. Hell one could prove the exact opposite that compared to even MMOs that were around at the same time, CoX was kind of archaic design wise and graphically. What it did have was a nice wrapper of deep and intricate storytelling, that much is certain, and the community was generally nice, at least until you pointed out the negatives of CoX then CoX community would make even the most rabid WoW hater look timid.
Do I believe the devs hated comics with CO? No, quite the opposite in fact. What happened was Atari there and the former beta testers pooled from CoX, sadly, and again Cryptics ability to constantly try to please everyone and in the end creating a mediocre experience. CO had potential to be the best out there, but listening to too many squeaky wheels, especially the fearful group from the CoX crowd made Cryptic hesitate, and the result, mixed with Atari's unwillingness to believe MMOs require post launch development, and Champions was in hot water out of the gate. Considering CoX players went on hate campaigns against CO can speak to that much.
CoX players are nuts. Considering how many would have orgasms just having City of Heroes mentioned by a barely legible text in a barely cared about web comic, or on the white board a reference to not do this would actually make CoX players cream themselves believing how everyone wanted to be them.
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I had a hard time concentrating in that alert.too busy laughing
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The genre is not as popular as you drink it is.
You happen to realize that Monday and Tuesday after it happen to be workdays? Check the seat sales over the weekend.
Spider-Man 2 is topping the box office chart. Genre not popular my behind. The superhero genre when it comes to movies is about one of hottest right now. MMORPGs are a different entertainment medium altogether. Don't mix up the two.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Because it's a bad game.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪[/i][/center]
I love this game. That doesn't make it objectively good.
I think the biggest hurdles for new players are:
1) You expect an action game (it's super heroes and it's specifically advertised as one on its own front page) and you end up with a ho-hum hotkey MMO (done too many times).
2) You maybe get over the fact it's a hotkey MMO, only to find that it's also a quest hub MMO (done too many times, and frankly boring).
3) If you manage to get past that, you're confronted with poorly written quests. Quests so poorly written, unoriginal, and unfunny, that it actually feels like the game is making fun of itself and you.
4) If you manage, somehow, to get past those and have fun with it anyways, you realize that the itemization system in this game is complicated to the point of absurdity. It isn't adequately explained in the game. When asked, other players can't even explain the system to you and just tell you what to do instead (which isn't actually helpful - example: understanding cooking and being capable of creating new recipes intuitively instead of just following instructions and hoping for the best).
5) If somehow, you manage to deal with all that, you realize the game's monetization system is extraordinarily and openly greedy, unfair to the players, and gambling centric.
6) With 5, you realize that despite the monetization, the game basically doesn't receive what a sane person describes as content.
7) During all this, it slowly sinks in that a loud portion of the community (large or small.. though those terms are relative in a dead game like this one) are socially maladjusted perverts who are more interested in stroking their own egos than helping anyone.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪[/i][/center]
Not when you just make it a freakin' WoW clone. It has most of the same problems I mentioned in the post above this one. Just because it's more polished, just because I can manage to enjoy it.. doesn't mean it's good or original.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪[/i][/center]
This this this this.
The stories and writing in this game actively insult comic book culture and anyone who loves it.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪[/i][/center]
Need:
Could be done:
There are so many other things that they can get going that could get the game up a bit. This may be a 5 year old game, but it's also one of the ONLY game of it's kind to speak of. DCU is crap compared to CO and MUO is not that great either.
I guess the most frustrating part is why no one will talk to the community and tell them what's going on. Is anyone up there listening?
Everything is easy, it's just a computer game. We know that because we play it.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Okay, then make one.
Meanwhile... I am a Lifetime guy. And why haven't I played in a loooong time? Because the events in this game for the past several however longs have NOT been superhero events. I mean, chariot races? Gladiator pits? REALLY?!?!?
I think you may have missed the point. A bit.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Several years ago, in the store I would see a great looking game called City of Heroes. Every time I saw it, I picked up the box and every time I put it down in disappointment as it required a monthly sub fee to play.
My income is never steady enough that I will tie myself to a subscription. Oh well, their loss I guess. CO has gotten more money from me than I ever would have thought of spending on a game. And their F2P model has even converted me to LTS.