Since the nerf to kinetic dampener shield is to harsh(shoulda lasted 6 seconds, not 3), you can add that to the list to. I think I can commend this thread.
thats a second change which is still being tested on the PTS,
the previous change allowed Kaiserin to solo Teleiosaurus with a sheild up
so now they aren't even allowed to TRY to balance/fix anything
Jonsills,
if you have 4 level 40's you can join the alt-aholics list. Going on your description of the likely problems with LTS, you're going to be on it anyway
thats a second change which is still being tested on the PTS,
the previous change allowed Kaiserin to solo Teleiosaurus with a sheild up
so now they aren't even allowed to TRY to balance/fix anything
It's too bad we have to keep repeating the main point, but if it needed to be fixed now, it needed to be fixed 16 months ago when first released. It's not some secret exploit, it was working as originally designed.
On the one hand, this is a relatively cheap Q store item and not as big of a deal as some of the other items in that respect.
On the other hand, it reduces the overall utility of vehicles that people have been buying for over a year. And they'll be able to replace some of that newly lost defensive capability by upgrading to a new Mark 2 vehicle. That is the particularly questionable part.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
It's too bad we have to keep repeating the main point, but if it needed to be fixed now, it needed to be fixed 16 months ago when first released. It's not some secret exploit, it was working as originally designed.
So, you're saying that Chaelk is interpreting this thread correctly - that if an item is broken, it must remain broken forever, on the basis that it "should have been" fixed before release (like anyone but a true min/maxer would even think to try some of the c-c-c-combo breakers out there). Cool, now we know where you're coming from, and that arguing game balance with you is futile. Saves me some effort in the future.
Chaelk, I've got Happifun to 40; Spider-Bat is currently holding around 38, Short Circuit is 32 or 33, and the others are lower, because I keep having cool ideas to try out. (Lately, I've been using my emergency backup account a fair bit, because I thought of a way to give Pyretta Blaze, an Inferno, a fire aura on the cheap...)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
So, you're saying that Chaelk is interpreting this thread correctly - that if an item is broken, it must remain broken forever, on the basis that it "should have been" fixed before release (like anyone but a true min/maxer would even think to try some of the c-c-c-combo breakers out there). Cool, now we know where you're coming from, and that arguing game balance with you is futile. Saves me some effort in the future.
For the record, the issue is not so much whether or not balance was improved by the nerfs. The question is: if you are going to offer gear/items/vehicles via microtransaction, more of an effort should be made into balancing them before release, not 6+ months down the road. And if items are significantly nerfed post-sale, perhaps there should be some kind of mechanism to compensate the players who are affected. Otherwise, players feel burned and will move on, which is not a good long-term strategy.
And I'm saying that the apparent pattern of nerfing microtransaction items as you release newer versions is a questionable business practice worthy of some exposure and criticism.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I honestly feel that the whole game has been bait & switch since the day one patch. I put up with the abuse for the longest time, so long as the game remained playable. As it stands, GmC has ruined it beyond recognition, which is when my guild of peeps just dropped out. We're looking for the 'new' Champions Online, now.
It's a crying shame, too, because I passionately supported this game to everyone who'd listen, I got so many people involved; from various walks of life, even, in that it had Universal appeal. It was originally almost like the TT Games LEGO offerings, it was just something that almost anyone could sit down with and enjoy. People just didn't know about it because of horrible marketing, and the constant nerfs (the endless baiting and switching) just whittled out all but the most ardent customers. I stuck with them until the very end, but I just find it unplayable, now.
To me, like the LEGO games, what something should have the highest quantities of is fun. Champions Online used to have that in spades, it was a revelation, since few other MMOs had anything remotely like that going for them. The only comparable effort is The Secret World, and even then, that's tame compared to what Champions Online was. When I talked to people after CO's launch, I asked them why they didn't jump on it. Their response was the they felt that the game was just another City of Heroes-esque grindfest, but that's not what 'being a hero' meant to them, it was a perversion of such.
I had to show them DPS characters of mind barging into huge groups and taking out groups of thugs for them to believe it. See, the rationale is 'if Spider-Man can do it, if Wolverine could do it, if Iron Man can do it, or even if Daredevil can do it, then my character should be able to do so in a superhero MMO too.' And that's perfectly fair. You used to be able to do that, too. You were a super, and you felt super, it was great. But our power dwindled ever since that day one patch. The thing is is that finding builds that made my group of supers feel super was what kept them around, even despite the lack of content. It's when we had to grind that we all lost interest.
Champions Online has just been so confused between courting fun-lovers and grindaholics.
If they'd kept with the 'fun-loving' aspect from the beginning and realised that probably just getting rid of levels all together and focusing on supers having fun was the best way, similar to The Secret World, this would have been one of the most popular MMOs out there. The thing with grindaholics is that they're insatiable, they want more content, they want it now, they want harder content, they want it now, and if they don't get it then they go straight back to WoW.
So grindaholics are like a revolving door, but those looking for genuinely fun online experiences are those who remain loyal. I'm now a loyal player of The Secret World, I mean, it's a poor man's original Champions Online, but it's still leagues ahead of where Champions Online is now. So that's a good place to go if you're just sick of what people like GmC are doing to ruin the game. I mean, GmC is such an amateur when it comes to balancing, I have no idea how he got the position in the first place. It's ridiculous.
But it's more evidence that Perfect World just doesn't care about CO. This provides an avenue though for a future MMO to just hoover up all the fun-lovers who'd been playing CO originally. The LEGO MMO might do that, I don't know. Heck, even Everquest Next might, since it promises not to have levels and it has parkour and that crazy grappling hook (the closest thing to super powers I've seen). In fact, Everquest Next might be an 'original Champions Online game,' so to speak.
Y'know what I want?
I'm a lifetime subscriber, so they're not losing money on me if I don't grind. I want them to reinstate the CO beta, as it was before the day one patch. Then I want them to possibly put in Vibora Bay and the mission pack content, but retrofitted to suit how things were before the day one patch. They can put up a $100 entry fee, and I'd pay it, so long as they promised to never patch it or touch it after release. New content would be fine, so long as it maintained the feel of CO before that horrible day one patch.
Make it lifetimers only, make it cost $100 per person for entry. I'd pay it. I'd pay it for my partner, too. I want the original Champions Online so badly. I don't want this mockery, this parody of what Champions Online once was.
All just my opinion.
But yeah, to sum up? To TL;DR: The entire game has been a bait & switch, starting with the day one patch and getting more abusive and exploitative from there.
thats a second change which is still being tested on the PTS,
the previous change allowed Kaiserin to solo Teleiosaurus with a sheild up
so now they aren't even allowed to TRY to balance/fix anything
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
The majority of people who came to Champions Online? They came here to have a superheroic experience, to be super, to feel super. They don't care about a grindaholic's desire to tooth and claw through the dirt and muck to build their way slowly up to power over years and years of playing, they just want to enjoy feeling like they're superheroes.
That's why I proposed the 'CO retirement home' idea. :P You can have your CO, where you grind relentlessly for the rest of your days to claw for every bit of power, and those of us with lifetime subscriptions can pay our fee to get a pre-day one patch server, which does have objects and builds which allow us to solo Teileiosaurus. Because, hey, we just want to feel super.
That's the divide, here. That's what Cryptic and Perfect World never understood.
Edit: Seriously, they need to do this. I mean, put a poll on the main site to measure interest, then send the word out not just to the usual MMO sites, but to places like VG24/7, Polygon, and Rock, Paper, Shotgun. Ask simply whether, if a person had a lifetime subscription, they'd be interested in accessing the game as it was before the day one patch (before all the various nerfs) for a one-off fee.
I can guarantee the results would be overwhelmingly positive, it would be a torrent of yes. And on lifetime subscribers, you're not losing out, you're gaining people who'll buy cosmetics.
There is no agenda to take your lunch money by releasing OP stuff for you to buy and then nerfing it later.
Content, gear, and powers that can easily be acquired for free also turn out to be OP and then get nerfed. It has nothing to do with the fact you paid for it or did not pay for it. It's a result of lacking enough resources to better balance the game by testing it out and playing it more extensively.
This is a question of effort and quality not one of malice. I would propose putting more resources and time behind testing and balance.
In fact if we get creative maybe we can come up with ways for the players who play the game a lot to do the testing for the dev team. Right now there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to test new content on PTS. Maybe start by changing that....
The majority of people who came to Champions Online? They came here to have a superheroic experience, to be super, to feel super. They don't care about a grindaholic's desire to tooth and claw through the dirt and muck to build their way slowly up to power over years and years of playing, they just want to enjoy feeling like they're superheroes.
That's why I proposed the 'CO retirement home' idea. :P You can have your CO, where you grind relentlessly for the rest of your days to claw for every bit of power, and those of us with lifetime subscriptions can pay our fee to get a pre-day one patch server, which does have objects and builds which allow us to solo Teileiosaurus. Because, hey, we just want to feel super.
That's the divide, here. That's what Cryptic and Perfect World never understood.
Edit: Seriously, they need to do this. I mean, put a poll on the main site to measure interest, then send the word out not just to the usual MMO sites, but to places like VG24/7, Polygon, and Rock, Paper, Shotgun. Ask simply whether, if a person had a lifetime subscription, they'd be interested in accessing the game as it was before the day one patch (before all the various nerfs) for a one-off fee.
I can guarantee the results would be overwhelmingly positive, it would be a torrent of yes. And on lifetime subscribers, you're not losing out, you're gaining people who'll buy cosmetics.
1. LTS and a gold acct,
2. I don't grind anything, I'm an alt-aholic. Not even for perks, too boring.
3. I don't give a sh*t about min/maxing a build. Mine are "lets try that, half arsed" builds."
4. Why is objecting to what is effectively a god mode item, asking for everyone to have togrind relentlessly for the rest of your days to claw for every bit of power?
And along with the soloing the strongest mobs in the game, comes the people saying" we need harder content these are too easy". As other people find out about that build and other people all copy it.
You have seen all those threads?
On the other hand, the separate server is a good idea.
Wonder how many people would stay on it and how long till they start complaining about the usual things.
Put in a suggestion thread.
Though whether they still have the original program is another matter, I only have the box set
I had to show them DPS characters of mind barging into huge groups and taking out groups of thugs for them to believe it. See, the rationale is 'if Spider-Man can do it, if Wolverine could do it, if Iron Man can do it, or even if Daredevil can do it, then my character should be able to do so in a superhero MMO too.' And that's perfectly fair. You used to be able to do that, too. You were a super, and you felt super, it was great. But our power dwindled ever since that day one patch.
Characters right now can be more powerful than was ever the case previously. If you compare buffs and nerfs over time we are at a net buff.
There is no agenda to take your lunch money by releasing OP stuff for you to buy and then nerfing it later.
Content, gear, and powers that can easily be acquired for free also turn out to be OP and then get nerfed. It has nothing to do with the fact you paid for it or did not pay for it. It's a result of lacking enough resources to better balance the game by testing it out and playing it more extensively.
This is a question of effort and quality not one of malice. I would propose putting more resources and time behind testing and balance.
In fact if we get creative maybe we can come up with ways for the players who play the game a lot to do the testing for the dev team. Right now there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to test new content on PTS. Maybe start by changing that....
1 character slot on pts per 15 dollars spent. You need bodies Cryptic. Other games go the sane route and appreciate testing for free. The currrent model of gold subs only isn't giving you enough testers.
or ignore that and maintain the same lower than usual number of testers
1 character slot on pts per 15 dollars spent. You need bodies Cryptic. Other games go the sane route and appreciate testing for free. The currrent model of gold subs only isn't giving you enough testers.
or ignore that and maintain the same lower than usual number of testers
I'd have more character slots on PTS than I do on live. I'd have more character slots than I'd ever had total characters.
It's not a bad idea. Cryptic could open up the PTS to everyone and not that many people would use it anyway.
Although I really don't buy that the responsibility for making sure new toys are generally balanced belongs with the players, and most of the recent "fixes" were not exactly hard-to-find edge cases, but changes to the basic parameters of the original design, I'm going to try to focus more on the things that I can do something about.
And I realized that one thing that I could do that might be constructive on this issue is to release my combat log analyzer plug-in, as it allows people to much more easily quantify and compare the performance of things, and could be a useful testing tool for PTS. Of course you still need people with the motivation and patience to do the testing, which I personally don't have. I'll have to find time to complete a couple of tasks before I make it available, hopefully in the next week.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Although I really don't buy that the responsibility for making sure new toys are generally balanced belongs with the players
I tend to agree with this sentiment, in principle.
On the other hand we are the ones who end up living with the problems if they are not caught (and sometimes even if they are). This is a situation where standing on principle is cutting off your (generic use, not directed at you personally) nose to spite your face.
I tend to agree with this sentiment, in principle.
On the other hand we are the ones who end up living with the problems if they are not caught (and sometimes even if they are). This is a situation where standing on principle is cutting off your (generic use, not directed at you personally) nose to spite your face.
There's also the fact that no matter how much foresight you can have as a developer, it's just hard to come to terms with player ingenuity. While you might have accounted for everything you think possible, players are very resourceful and can come up with things that you would never even imagine. This is why players are often used to test, and they tend to trust players to report things that tend to be outrageous.
if it's bad, lots of complaints on PTS thread.
if it's Ok, comments on PTS thread.
if it's OP, (except the large attack for laser swords,which everyone seemed to agree was ridiculous. ) there are very FEW comments on the PTS.
Lots of chat about how great it is and what you can do with it, what it works with. ALL on other channels, ingame.
odd that. almost as if some people would prefer that their new god power/device/whatever not be mentioned, in case it gets fixed.
While I agree that the newest nerf to Plasma Beam is BS, if it needs to be discussed, discuss it without accusing the company of fraudulent activities without basis. I think you'll get the message across better that way.
While I agree that the newest nerf to Plasma Beam is BS, if it needs to be discussed, discuss it without accusing the company of fraud without basis. I think you'll get the message across better that way.
I am not "accusing the company of fraud", with or without basis. Making such a false statement towards me is actually rather defamatory.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I have not "accused the company of fraud", with or without basis. Stating otherwise is actually quite defamatory.
The term "bait-and-switch" has everything to do with intent, to intentionally lure someone under false promises and to make sure that whatever it is that's being offered isn't the exact thing that's being delivered from the beginning. Therefore it suggests fraud. So no, defamatory nothing. You know full well what you were trying to say.
What I see here is balancing activities within a MMO; something that's always been commonplace with MMOS. Just because what's being balanced is a microtransaction item doesn't exempt it from balancing.
The term "bait-and-switch" has everything to do with intent, to intentionally lure someone under false promises and to make sure that whatever it is that's being offered isn't the exact thing that's being delivered from the beginning. Therefore it suggests fraud. So no, defamatory nothing. You know full well what you were trying to say.
I know full well what I was trying to say, as well as what I actually did say. And I've been very clear to say this has nothing to do with legality. You're apparently focusing on what you think the title of the thread means, and not able to read any further than that, or else just trolling.
We're all free to our opinions about whether this pattern of "balancing" is a problem or not.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I know full well what I was trying to say, as well as what I actually did say. And I've been very clear to say this has nothing to do with legality. You're apparently focusing on what you think the title of the thread means, and not able to read any further than that, or else just trolling.
We're all free to our opinions about whether this pattern of "balancing" is a problem or not.
All the claims about not talking about legality don't really get anywhere when the term is associated with fraud and intentional deception.
I didn't say that you shouldn't voice your opinions on the matter. I'm just stating that using libel and slander isn't the best way to go about it.
All the claims about not talking about legality don't really get anywhere when the term is associated with fraud and intentional deception.
I didn't say that you shouldn't voice your opinions on the matter. I'm just stating that using libel and slander isn't the best way to go about it.
Libel is an intentionally false statement of fact that causes harm. Slander is verbal and does not apply here. A title, of a book, article, or forum message is a creative name given to the work "to convey a minimal summary of its contents, and to pique the reader's curiosity". It is not a statement of fact. Are we done?
Libel is an intentionally false statement of fact that causes harm. Slander is verbal and does not apply here. A title, of a book, article, or forum message is a creative name given to the work "to convey a minimal summary of its contents, and to pique the reader's curiosity". It is not a statement of fact. Are we done?
So by your logic, if I were to title a book, article or forum thread header "Bait and switch", a term that's well-known, or even commonly known, to be associated with and even defined by fraud, it in no way suggests that its contents have any context whatsoever relating to the actual association and definition.
It can just be about making unproven accusations that smear a company's or individual's name and reputation without anything legal factoring in. All the legal stuff comes in only if the target of the accusations decide to take it up a notch by suing.
I get that you're obsessed with the specific word choices in the title of the thread and think that's more important than the contents or any underlying issues. Understood. Moving on.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Fine, I'll address the content then. The content of your OP clearly criticizes Cryptic releasing an apparently overpowered item for purchase only to have it nerfed later on. If there's something I agree to, it's the fact that poor quality testing was done (if any) on the PTS before these items were released to live. The supposed defect was only detected after the release.
What I don't agree with is that the release-and-nerf-later approach that they took equates to bait-and-switch activity. The intention to release it only to make its quality lowered at a later time from the start before any purchase was done has yet to be proven. Since it isn't proven, then it's a baseless accusation to call it bait-and-switch.
If you really want to be all responsible about educating players about making better decisions about making future microtransactions, then do so by mentioning that any virtual items in the game with relevance to combat are subject to balances and fixes, like mentioned:
HOWEVER, this is a computer game with ongoing development and changes. It is, by nature, amorphous. To expect powers or items to stay static is counter to maintaining the quality of the game.
So you do realize that a fair chunk of those search results are about an actual power name and not used in the context you are intending?? Granted yes, there are also threads that mention various "bait and switch" tactics.
In regards to your post... Nothing in the changes listed are clearly stated as, nor can they be proven to have, an intentional move with regards to taking advantage of players and their money. It's just the course of action that the developers (and in truth the order usually comes from above, no matter the actual concerns of the programming company)have to take in regards to fixing something within the game. With the recent vehicle changes people have a knee jerk reaction to something that they have invested either time, money or both into... and while I do understand the frustration, there's only two things that really can be done about it. Either keep playing and adapt to the changes, or stop playing if that ruins your experience so much. Sure you can try and get refunds and the like, and some do succeed in it, but don't expect an out pouring of "We're sorry that we have to change things that you paid for" because it IS a service, and as such is subject to changes at the discretion of the company.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
I have no problem with most of the changes Cryptic did.
I cannot recall that Prototypes were on sale in the Zen Store. I think the vast majority that exist were farmed in the Nighthawk Event, and they still bring unique features and are valued highly.
Legion Gear is still the second best gearin the game and far from obsolete. The introduction of Justice Gear is a normal process of power creep that isn't untypical in MMO's, and has happened before with the Release of On Alert.
Legacy Devices Nerf was because it became too apparent how abusable some are. The excess Devices were automatically unbound and put in your inventory too. I found that a reasonable approach. They are stilll far from useless.
As for the first Plasma Beam and Biosteel nerf, lets be honest, it was reasonable/acceptable. The second batch of nerfs which also dramatically increased the energy cost of PB and AA was far from reasonable. It basically killed the weapon, made the MK3 Version inferior to other Mk2 weapons and unfun to use. Nerfing the DPS heavily AND forcing you to reload constantly is incredibly unfun, and I know plenty people that sank a lot of ressources into that. Not only that, you are basically punished for it by having to spend more ressources to remove now useless mods.
I have no idea what anyone's intent is, and I agree that many of the nerfs were needed. I'm just pointing out what appears to me to be a pattern. And that pattern generally seems to benefit the company at the expense of players that buy stuff like vehicles.
It seems unlikely that it was not CN's intent to buff vehicles and Plasma Beam in March, when they released the Mark 2/Mark 3 upgrades. Now when they essentially rollback the substantial benefits from those changes (and then some) 6 months later after collecting the revenue, I don't see how you can just shrug your shoulders and say "had to be done for balance..it was unavoidable" and not think they are deserving of some criticism.
There are certainly process improvements that could be made to prevent these situations, and goodwill measures that could be made towards the affected players.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]legacy devices[/COLOR] don't belong on that list. when players could no longer use 5 of the same device all devices were unbound. so a player could sell the device and get something else they wanted. or switch the devices to other toons. nothing in how legacy devices were handled was wrong.
prototype vehicles all protype owners that owned one were offered refunds. i got one myself. so that doesnt belong in this list either.
legion gear was not nerfed. the dodge stat was nerfed in general there is nothing wrong with this.
biosteel was not nerfed, it was broken in the beginning. it mere works as it always stated now.
plasma was OP it would be nice if they had a buyback vendor for plasma beams.so people can get their q back.
none of this was bait and switch. this was just adjusting. in extreme nerfs a refund should be available. as i said before the best solution is add an ingame vendor to buy back Plasma Beams for their original price so people can buy a different weapon.
While I agree that the newest nerf to Plasma Beam is BS, if it needs to be discussed, discuss it without accusing the company of fraudulent activities without basis. I think you'll get the message across better that way.
Assuming the point is to get the message across instead of necrothreading to boldly claim the Moral High Ground.
The intention to release it only to make its quality lowered at a later time from the start before any purchase was done has yet to be proven. Since it isn't proven, then it's a baseless accusation to call it bait-and-switch.
Unproven and baseless are not the same thing. An insufficiency of evidence to prove something does not mean that there is an insufficiency of evidence upon which to base an accusation.
(Posting this in both this thread and in the PTS thread.)
Hey folks, want to weigh in on this.
First and foremost, I want to make sure to acknowledge that yes, this has an impact on players. Builds get made, and changes like this can lead to players retooling their builds. I want to make sure everyone understands that, and I'm sorry that that became necessary. Champions in particular is a very difficult game to balance, and certainly we aren't perfect when it comes to releasing everything with healthy stats on launch. (Although I do think that recent content has been much more polished on launch than in the past. Not everyone will agree with me, but I firmly believe that the Cryptic North team is committed to polish.)
Second, I'd like to address a thread of thought I've seen running through, the assumption that vehicles were built for open-world bosses like Mechanon. We're glad that they fill that role, but vehicles weren't specifically designed with that kind of boss-killer mindset. A well-upgraded vehicle should be comparable in power to a well-geared, well-designed character build. If there's only one viable build for vehicles, especially if that's because of a power behaving improperly, and especially if that's hurting the quality of boss fights, then we need to take a serious look at things.
Third, there's a perception that we're going through and doing a piece-by-piece vehicle pass. Granted, we've recently had several updates to vehicle mods, but we're not doing anything as structured as a pass. This, plus the Biosteel change, came out of us seeing how these MODs did during recent play. If something else vehicle-related starts being unearthed as needing a buff or a change, we'll probably throw a few dev hours at it, but I've got no more reason to assume it'd happen for a vehicle MOD than to happen for a power, or a costume piece, etc.
Fourth, I've changed the name of the thread. While I freely acknowledge that it would be ideal to have launched PB in a healthy state, it would be unhealthy to refuse to adjust things based on new information. While I apologize for the necessity, no change is ever willfully done as a bait-and-switch.
Hope that helped clarify things, folks. I understand why people are upset, and I do sympathize, but the only healthy action is to take action.
... but the only healthy action is to take action.
-TrailTurtle
Sorry TT but that is just hypocrisy. You make changes without player feedback but leave an exploitable trade system for scammers to repeatedly screw honest players plus the only response from Customer Service to scammers is copy and paste a statement that basically is "oh buyer beware????" FIX THE &^%& CODE!
You leave tons and tons of bugs and inept misspellings all over the place but devote precious developer time to overnerfing??? How can we take you guys seriously when your priorities are so completely screwed up. How can I recommend this game to others when everyday I am assaulted by misspellings and bugs that constantly remind me of little care goes into this game that I still hold out hope could be the best out there?
I think the OP has a valid point. It's worth consideration, especially when players throw money/time/effort at these things. Whether or not there's a Cryptic Conspiracy to nerf things after selling them for money, the point remains that we, as players, should be concerned about our fellow players and what they do with their money.
I can honestly say I don't think I'd be purchasing a vehicle if I were new to the game. I honestly only care about costumes and such. But I do think the dodge nerf was a bit painful, for a short while. Thing is, I can't really be butthurt- I mean, they're changing things in a game, and there's not much to do after a certain point anyway.
The only thing that I would appreciate is a vendor to swap the guns that got adjusted for ones that I rather change to. They were -very- expensive, and I have tons of them, that I would rather change out now. Like they did with the mechanon AFs?
TT, I know you've got a thankless task, as you're the guy who gets thrown to the wolves when the villagers are angry (if I can mix metaphors). I appreciate that you do so reasonably and with patience.
This, plus the Biosteel change, came out of us seeing how these MODs did during recent play. If something else vehicle-related starts being unearthed as needing a buff or a change, we'll probably throw a few dev hours at it, but I've got no more reason to assume it'd happen for a vehicle MOD than to happen for a power, or a costume piece, etc.
Does "a large number of mods do not work at all and have not since their creation" count as something that "starts being unearthed"? Sweet Moses, one of the reasons Biosteel was 'the' viable way of building a vehicle is because half the others don't work. I find it literally impossible to believe that the devs aren't aware of this. WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THINGS LIKE THAT TO BE ADDRESSED?
Ultimately, and unfortunately, the last line I quoted above is 100% accurate. I too have no more reason to assume that vehicle mods will be fixed than to assume that powers or costume pieces will be fixed. This is because none of them get fixed. Damn that's sad.
Last few times I did LI last night I saw relatively few vehicles and few of them were using PB. In the last run none of the vehicles were using PB that I could see. Seems to me that such a dramatic swing the other direction should be cause for concern.
CN did a great job on the anniversary (at least as far as I'm concerned, won't speak for others on that) but the approach to the vehicles has been ham-fisted. I believe vehicles sales (including equipping them) have been a reasonable revenue stream for you guys, but as others have pointed out, the reason bio-steel and PB were so overused is because the other mods/weapons either underperformed or didn't work properly. If you want more cash from players from vehicle related sales you need to fix the system pronto.
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Wouldn't hurt to give players who are, or were, currently invested in vehicles to offer some sort of compensation.
Yes, balancing is necessary. It can be a nightmare at times. I understand. The thing is, when virtual items are put for purchase and the state of those said items are changed at a later time at the expense of the player then it's no longer a simple matter of balancing any longer. People are going to be unhappy about it, and you get all the bait-and-switch accusations thrown your way.
I'm not suggesting full refunds for vehicles because that's unreasonable, but some sort of compensation would be nice.
Thanks for showing some extra attention to this important ongoing and timely issue.
I'd just like to address two things:
Most importantly, as many others have said, some method of exchanging retroactively rebalanced cash shop items negates the reason for these kinds of threads. It's just a good idea for a lot of reasons:
- Players shouldn't have to be the ones to pay for admitted dev team mistakes.
- Players will not only feel better about this situation, they'll feel more confidant about future purchases.
- Eliminates even the perception of bait-and-switch.
- Provides a little more of an incentive for the developers to get cash shop items right the first time.
Secondly, with respect to this particular situation, you mention that the balance target for well-equipped vehicles is to be comparable with well-equipped, well-built characters. This is useful information that we did not have before, and I believe you were much closer to this rubric before this last patch. This is what many testers tried to communicate in the PTS thread in the brief period the change was able to be reviewed. Although it may be water under the bridge now, there are other ways, discussed elsewhere, to fix the Plasma Sheer issue, without completely neutering the weapon.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
100% agree with this. It would a great good will gesture. It would make it seem like the real intent was to balance things instead of seeming to be a ploy to get players to have to spend more cash on something that should have been done right the first time.
Most importantly, as many others have said, some method of exchanging retroactively rebalanced cash shop items negates the reason for these kinds of threads. It's just a good idea for a lot of reasons:
- Players shouldn't have to be the ones to pay for admitted dev team mistakes.
- Players will not only feel better about this situation, they'll feel more confidant about future purchases.
- Eliminates even the perception of bait-and-switch.
- Provides a little more of an incentive for the developers to get cash shop items right the first time.
Comments
thats a second change which is still being tested on the PTS,
the previous change allowed Kaiserin to solo Teleiosaurus with a sheild up
so now they aren't even allowed to TRY to balance/fix anything
Jonsills,
if you have 4 level 40's you can join the alt-aholics list. Going on your description of the likely problems with LTS, you're going to be on it anyway
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It's too bad we have to keep repeating the main point, but if it needed to be fixed now, it needed to be fixed 16 months ago when first released. It's not some secret exploit, it was working as originally designed.
On the one hand, this is a relatively cheap Q store item and not as big of a deal as some of the other items in that respect.
On the other hand, it reduces the overall utility of vehicles that people have been buying for over a year. And they'll be able to replace some of that newly lost defensive capability by upgrading to a new Mark 2 vehicle. That is the particularly questionable part.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Chaelk, I've got Happifun to 40; Spider-Bat is currently holding around 38, Short Circuit is 32 or 33, and the others are lower, because I keep having cool ideas to try out. (Lately, I've been using my emergency backup account a fair bit, because I thought of a way to give Pyretta Blaze, an Inferno, a fire aura on the cheap...)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Of course not (and it doesn't seem like you put that much effort in to begin with). I'm saying the same thing I've been saying since the original post:
And I'm saying that the apparent pattern of nerfing microtransaction items as you release newer versions is a questionable business practice worthy of some exposure and criticism.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
It's a crying shame, too, because I passionately supported this game to everyone who'd listen, I got so many people involved; from various walks of life, even, in that it had Universal appeal. It was originally almost like the TT Games LEGO offerings, it was just something that almost anyone could sit down with and enjoy. People just didn't know about it because of horrible marketing, and the constant nerfs (the endless baiting and switching) just whittled out all but the most ardent customers. I stuck with them until the very end, but I just find it unplayable, now.
To me, like the LEGO games, what something should have the highest quantities of is fun. Champions Online used to have that in spades, it was a revelation, since few other MMOs had anything remotely like that going for them. The only comparable effort is The Secret World, and even then, that's tame compared to what Champions Online was. When I talked to people after CO's launch, I asked them why they didn't jump on it. Their response was the they felt that the game was just another City of Heroes-esque grindfest, but that's not what 'being a hero' meant to them, it was a perversion of such.
I had to show them DPS characters of mind barging into huge groups and taking out groups of thugs for them to believe it. See, the rationale is 'if Spider-Man can do it, if Wolverine could do it, if Iron Man can do it, or even if Daredevil can do it, then my character should be able to do so in a superhero MMO too.' And that's perfectly fair. You used to be able to do that, too. You were a super, and you felt super, it was great. But our power dwindled ever since that day one patch. The thing is is that finding builds that made my group of supers feel super was what kept them around, even despite the lack of content. It's when we had to grind that we all lost interest.
Champions Online has just been so confused between courting fun-lovers and grindaholics.
If they'd kept with the 'fun-loving' aspect from the beginning and realised that probably just getting rid of levels all together and focusing on supers having fun was the best way, similar to The Secret World, this would have been one of the most popular MMOs out there. The thing with grindaholics is that they're insatiable, they want more content, they want it now, they want harder content, they want it now, and if they don't get it then they go straight back to WoW.
So grindaholics are like a revolving door, but those looking for genuinely fun online experiences are those who remain loyal. I'm now a loyal player of The Secret World, I mean, it's a poor man's original Champions Online, but it's still leagues ahead of where Champions Online is now. So that's a good place to go if you're just sick of what people like GmC are doing to ruin the game. I mean, GmC is such an amateur when it comes to balancing, I have no idea how he got the position in the first place. It's ridiculous.
But it's more evidence that Perfect World just doesn't care about CO. This provides an avenue though for a future MMO to just hoover up all the fun-lovers who'd been playing CO originally. The LEGO MMO might do that, I don't know. Heck, even Everquest Next might, since it promises not to have levels and it has parkour and that crazy grappling hook (the closest thing to super powers I've seen). In fact, Everquest Next might be an 'original Champions Online game,' so to speak.
Y'know what I want?
I'm a lifetime subscriber, so they're not losing money on me if I don't grind. I want them to reinstate the CO beta, as it was before the day one patch. Then I want them to possibly put in Vibora Bay and the mission pack content, but retrofitted to suit how things were before the day one patch. They can put up a $100 entry fee, and I'd pay it, so long as they promised to never patch it or touch it after release. New content would be fine, so long as it maintained the feel of CO before that horrible day one patch.
Make it lifetimers only, make it cost $100 per person for entry. I'd pay it. I'd pay it for my partner, too. I want the original Champions Online so badly. I don't want this mockery, this parody of what Champions Online once was.
All just my opinion.
But yeah, to sum up? To TL;DR: The entire game has been a bait & switch, starting with the day one patch and getting more abusive and exploitative from there.
The majority of people who came to Champions Online? They came here to have a superheroic experience, to be super, to feel super. They don't care about a grindaholic's desire to tooth and claw through the dirt and muck to build their way slowly up to power over years and years of playing, they just want to enjoy feeling like they're superheroes.
That's why I proposed the 'CO retirement home' idea. :P You can have your CO, where you grind relentlessly for the rest of your days to claw for every bit of power, and those of us with lifetime subscriptions can pay our fee to get a pre-day one patch server, which does have objects and builds which allow us to solo Teileiosaurus. Because, hey, we just want to feel super.
That's the divide, here. That's what Cryptic and Perfect World never understood.
Edit: Seriously, they need to do this. I mean, put a poll on the main site to measure interest, then send the word out not just to the usual MMO sites, but to places like VG24/7, Polygon, and Rock, Paper, Shotgun. Ask simply whether, if a person had a lifetime subscription, they'd be interested in accessing the game as it was before the day one patch (before all the various nerfs) for a one-off fee.
I can guarantee the results would be overwhelmingly positive, it would be a torrent of yes. And on lifetime subscribers, you're not losing out, you're gaining people who'll buy cosmetics.
This is generally just face palm.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Content, gear, and powers that can easily be acquired for free also turn out to be OP and then get nerfed. It has nothing to do with the fact you paid for it or did not pay for it. It's a result of lacking enough resources to better balance the game by testing it out and playing it more extensively.
This is a question of effort and quality not one of malice. I would propose putting more resources and time behind testing and balance.
In fact if we get creative maybe we can come up with ways for the players who play the game a lot to do the testing for the dev team. Right now there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to test new content on PTS. Maybe start by changing that....
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1. LTS and a gold acct,
2. I don't grind anything, I'm an alt-aholic. Not even for perks, too boring.
3. I don't give a sh*t about min/maxing a build. Mine are "lets try that, half arsed" builds."
4. Why is objecting to what is effectively a god mode item, asking for everyone to have togrind relentlessly for the rest of your days to claw for every bit of power?
And along with the soloing the strongest mobs in the game, comes the people saying" we need harder content these are too easy". As other people find out about that build and other people all copy it.
You have seen all those threads?
On the other hand, the separate server is a good idea.
Wonder how many people would stay on it and how long till they start complaining about the usual things.
Put in a suggestion thread.
Though whether they still have the original program is another matter, I only have the box set
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Characters right now can be more powerful than was ever the case previously. If you compare buffs and nerfs over time we are at a net buff.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
1 character slot on pts per 15 dollars spent. You need bodies Cryptic. Other games go the sane route and appreciate testing for free. The currrent model of gold subs only isn't giving you enough testers.
or ignore that and maintain the same lower than usual number of testers
I'd have more character slots on PTS than I do on live. I'd have more character slots than I'd ever had total characters.
It's not a bad idea. Cryptic could open up the PTS to everyone and not that many people would use it anyway.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Pretty much truth. The low turn out on PTR has always been there even when it was open to all.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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And I realized that one thing that I could do that might be constructive on this issue is to release my combat log analyzer plug-in, as it allows people to much more easily quantify and compare the performance of things, and could be a useful testing tool for PTS. Of course you still need people with the motivation and patience to do the testing, which I personally don't have. I'll have to find time to complete a couple of tasks before I make it available, hopefully in the next week.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I tend to agree with this sentiment, in principle.
On the other hand we are the ones who end up living with the problems if they are not caught (and sometimes even if they are). This is a situation where standing on principle is cutting off your (generic use, not directed at you personally) nose to spite your face.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
There's also the fact that no matter how much foresight you can have as a developer, it's just hard to come to terms with player ingenuity. While you might have accounted for everything you think possible, players are very resourceful and can come up with things that you would never even imagine. This is why players are often used to test, and they tend to trust players to report things that tend to be outrageous.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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um, I have about 100 characters and I would have over ... waaay over that amount at $15 per
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Crush's comments caused an exodus. Those that remain test, but omfg.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
if it's bad, lots of complaints on PTS thread.
if it's Ok, comments on PTS thread.
if it's OP, (except the large attack for laser swords,which everyone seemed to agree was ridiculous. ) there are very FEW comments on the PTS.
Lots of chat about how great it is and what you can do with it, what it works with. ALL on other channels, ingame.
odd that. almost as if some people would prefer that their new god power/device/whatever not be mentioned, in case it gets fixed.
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I am not "accusing the company of fraud", with or without basis. Making such a false statement towards me is actually rather defamatory.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
The term "bait-and-switch" has everything to do with intent, to intentionally lure someone under false promises and to make sure that whatever it is that's being offered isn't the exact thing that's being delivered from the beginning. Therefore it suggests fraud. So no, defamatory nothing. You know full well what you were trying to say.
What I see here is balancing activities within a MMO; something that's always been commonplace with MMOS. Just because what's being balanced is a microtransaction item doesn't exempt it from balancing.
I know full well what I was trying to say, as well as what I actually did say. And I've been very clear to say this has nothing to do with legality. You're apparently focusing on what you think the title of the thread means, and not able to read any further than that, or else just trolling.
We're all free to our opinions about whether this pattern of "balancing" is a problem or not.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
All the claims about not talking about legality don't really get anywhere when the term is associated with fraud and intentional deception.
I didn't say that you shouldn't voice your opinions on the matter. I'm just stating that using libel and slander isn't the best way to go about it.
Libel is an intentionally false statement of fact that causes harm. Slander is verbal and does not apply here. A title, of a book, article, or forum message is a creative name given to the work "to convey a minimal summary of its contents, and to pique the reader's curiosity". It is not a statement of fact. Are we done?
If just using the words bait and switch in the title of a forum message could be libelous, PWE's legal department must be busy.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
So by your logic, if I were to title a book, article or forum thread header "Bait and switch", a term that's well-known, or even commonly known, to be associated with and even defined by fraud, it in no way suggests that its contents have any context whatsoever relating to the actual association and definition.
Ooooooh-kay then.
It can just be about making unproven accusations that smear a company's or individual's name and reputation without anything legal factoring in. All the legal stuff comes in only if the target of the accusations decide to take it up a notch by suing.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
What I don't agree with is that the release-and-nerf-later approach that they took equates to bait-and-switch activity. The intention to release it only to make its quality lowered at a later time from the start before any purchase was done has yet to be proven. Since it isn't proven, then it's a baseless accusation to call it bait-and-switch.
If you really want to be all responsible about educating players about making better decisions about making future microtransactions, then do so by mentioning that any virtual items in the game with relevance to combat are subject to balances and fixes, like mentioned:
So you do realize that a fair chunk of those search results are about an actual power name and not used in the context you are intending?? Granted yes, there are also threads that mention various "bait and switch" tactics.
In regards to your post... Nothing in the changes listed are clearly stated as, nor can they be proven to have, an intentional move with regards to taking advantage of players and their money. It's just the course of action that the developers (and in truth the order usually comes from above, no matter the actual concerns of the programming company)have to take in regards to fixing something within the game. With the recent vehicle changes people have a knee jerk reaction to something that they have invested either time, money or both into... and while I do understand the frustration, there's only two things that really can be done about it. Either keep playing and adapt to the changes, or stop playing if that ruins your experience so much. Sure you can try and get refunds and the like, and some do succeed in it, but don't expect an out pouring of "We're sorry that we have to change things that you paid for" because it IS a service, and as such is subject to changes at the discretion of the company.
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I cannot recall that Prototypes were on sale in the Zen Store. I think the vast majority that exist were farmed in the Nighthawk Event, and they still bring unique features and are valued highly.
Legion Gear is still the second best gearin the game and far from obsolete. The introduction of Justice Gear is a normal process of power creep that isn't untypical in MMO's, and has happened before with the Release of On Alert.
Legacy Devices Nerf was because it became too apparent how abusable some are. The excess Devices were automatically unbound and put in your inventory too. I found that a reasonable approach. They are stilll far from useless.
As for the first Plasma Beam and Biosteel nerf, lets be honest, it was reasonable/acceptable. The second batch of nerfs which also dramatically increased the energy cost of PB and AA was far from reasonable. It basically killed the weapon, made the MK3 Version inferior to other Mk2 weapons and unfun to use. Nerfing the DPS heavily AND forcing you to reload constantly is incredibly unfun, and I know plenty people that sank a lot of ressources into that. Not only that, you are basically punished for it by having to spend more ressources to remove now useless mods.
It seems unlikely that it was not CN's intent to buff vehicles and Plasma Beam in March, when they released the Mark 2/Mark 3 upgrades. Now when they essentially rollback the substantial benefits from those changes (and then some) 6 months later after collecting the revenue, I don't see how you can just shrug your shoulders and say "had to be done for balance..it was unavoidable" and not think they are deserving of some criticism.
There are certainly process improvements that could be made to prevent these situations, and goodwill measures that could be made towards the affected players.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
prototype vehicles all protype owners that owned one were offered refunds. i got one myself. so that doesnt belong in this list either.
legion gear was not nerfed. the dodge stat was nerfed in general there is nothing wrong with this.
biosteel was not nerfed, it was broken in the beginning. it mere works as it always stated now.
plasma was OP it would be nice if they had a buyback vendor for plasma beams.so people can get their q back.
none of this was bait and switch. this was just adjusting. in extreme nerfs a refund should be available. as i said before the best solution is add an ingame vendor to buy back Plasma Beams for their original price so people can buy a different weapon.
Assuming the point is to get the message across instead of necrothreading to boldly claim the Moral High Ground.
Unproven and baseless are not the same thing. An insufficiency of evidence to prove something does not mean that there is an insufficiency of evidence upon which to base an accusation.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Hey folks, want to weigh in on this.
First and foremost, I want to make sure to acknowledge that yes, this has an impact on players. Builds get made, and changes like this can lead to players retooling their builds. I want to make sure everyone understands that, and I'm sorry that that became necessary. Champions in particular is a very difficult game to balance, and certainly we aren't perfect when it comes to releasing everything with healthy stats on launch. (Although I do think that recent content has been much more polished on launch than in the past. Not everyone will agree with me, but I firmly believe that the Cryptic North team is committed to polish.)
Second, I'd like to address a thread of thought I've seen running through, the assumption that vehicles were built for open-world bosses like Mechanon. We're glad that they fill that role, but vehicles weren't specifically designed with that kind of boss-killer mindset. A well-upgraded vehicle should be comparable in power to a well-geared, well-designed character build. If there's only one viable build for vehicles, especially if that's because of a power behaving improperly, and especially if that's hurting the quality of boss fights, then we need to take a serious look at things.
Third, there's a perception that we're going through and doing a piece-by-piece vehicle pass. Granted, we've recently had several updates to vehicle mods, but we're not doing anything as structured as a pass. This, plus the Biosteel change, came out of us seeing how these MODs did during recent play. If something else vehicle-related starts being unearthed as needing a buff or a change, we'll probably throw a few dev hours at it, but I've got no more reason to assume it'd happen for a vehicle MOD than to happen for a power, or a costume piece, etc.
Fourth, I've changed the name of the thread. While I freely acknowledge that it would be ideal to have launched PB in a healthy state, it would be unhealthy to refuse to adjust things based on new information. While I apologize for the necessity, no change is ever willfully done as a bait-and-switch.
Hope that helped clarify things, folks. I understand why people are upset, and I do sympathize, but the only healthy action is to take action.
-TrailTurtle
Sorry TT but that is just hypocrisy. You make changes without player feedback but leave an exploitable trade system for scammers to repeatedly screw honest players plus the only response from Customer Service to scammers is copy and paste a statement that basically is "oh buyer beware????" FIX THE &^%& CODE!
You leave tons and tons of bugs and inept misspellings all over the place but devote precious developer time to overnerfing??? How can we take you guys seriously when your priorities are so completely screwed up. How can I recommend this game to others when everyday I am assaulted by misspellings and bugs that constantly remind me of little care goes into this game that I still hold out hope could be the best out there?
(C'mon Blostering?!)
I can honestly say I don't think I'd be purchasing a vehicle if I were new to the game. I honestly only care about costumes and such. But I do think the dodge nerf was a bit painful, for a short while. Thing is, I can't really be butthurt- I mean, they're changing things in a game, and there's not much to do after a certain point anyway.
XS
However, this sticks out like a sore thumb to me:
Does "a large number of mods do not work at all and have not since their creation" count as something that "starts being unearthed"? Sweet Moses, one of the reasons Biosteel was 'the' viable way of building a vehicle is because half the others don't work. I find it literally impossible to believe that the devs aren't aware of this. WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THINGS LIKE THAT TO BE ADDRESSED?
Ultimately, and unfortunately, the last line I quoted above is 100% accurate. I too have no more reason to assume that vehicle mods will be fixed than to assume that powers or costume pieces will be fixed. This is because none of them get fixed. Damn that's sad.
CN did a great job on the anniversary (at least as far as I'm concerned, won't speak for others on that) but the approach to the vehicles has been ham-fisted. I believe vehicles sales (including equipping them) have been a reasonable revenue stream for you guys, but as others have pointed out, the reason bio-steel and PB were so overused is because the other mods/weapons either underperformed or didn't work properly. If you want more cash from players from vehicle related sales you need to fix the system pronto.
Yes, balancing is necessary. It can be a nightmare at times. I understand. The thing is, when virtual items are put for purchase and the state of those said items are changed at a later time at the expense of the player then it's no longer a simple matter of balancing any longer. People are going to be unhappy about it, and you get all the bait-and-switch accusations thrown your way.
I'm not suggesting full refunds for vehicles because that's unreasonable, but some sort of compensation would be nice.
Thanks for showing some extra attention to this important ongoing and timely issue.
I'd just like to address two things:
Most importantly, as many others have said, some method of exchanging retroactively rebalanced cash shop items negates the reason for these kinds of threads. It's just a good idea for a lot of reasons:
- Players shouldn't have to be the ones to pay for admitted dev team mistakes.
- Players will not only feel better about this situation, they'll feel more confidant about future purchases.
- Eliminates even the perception of bait-and-switch.
- Provides a little more of an incentive for the developers to get cash shop items right the first time.
Secondly, with respect to this particular situation, you mention that the balance target for well-equipped vehicles is to be comparable with well-equipped, well-built characters. This is useful information that we did not have before, and I believe you were much closer to this rubric before this last patch. This is what many testers tried to communicate in the PTS thread in the brief period the change was able to be reviewed. Although it may be water under the bridge now, there are other ways, discussed elsewhere, to fix the Plasma Sheer issue, without completely neutering the weapon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming