I think this discussion has no end, i stated my point you stated yours, we have different opinions and obviously different levels of emotional sensitivy that beign said it make no logical sense to continue arguing with you.
Coming from someone who hasn't made much logical sense with their arguments so far, this statement is highly ironic.
Coming from someone who hasn't made much logical sense with their arguments so far, this statement is highly ironic.
It'll also be ironic if this entire time they were one of the many trolls who goes around harassing RPers. I've seen how they are in zone and gladly put them on ignore. ((Also thank god for the ignore script, thank you kaizerin for making one. This thread can now go back on topic))
I'd like to add a suggestion. Seeing that GMs are at a limit. Why not have community GMs in-game? Someone we can trust on and report problems to players we know we can trust that can go ahead and deal with these said trolls and report their doings to the real GMs to who and why they had to ban them. Let the GMs take the course of action if it should be approved or not to keep the ban up or not.
I think this discussion has no end, i stated my point you stated yours, we have different opinions and obviously different levels of emotional sensitivy that beign said it make no logical sense to continue arguing with you.
I hope for your sake that you can figure out a way of this situation you stated.
Look, Chaos, you are the only person on this forum taking the position that being in a virtual environment excuses being selfish or inconsiderate. You don't have your fellow players on your side, you don't have Cryptic or their Terms of Service on your side, and you don't have society in general on your side.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I'd like to add a suggestion. Seeing that GMs are at a limit. Why not have community GMs in-game? Someone we can trust on and report problems to players we know we can trust that can go ahead and deal with these said trolls and report their doings to the real GMs to who and why they had to ban them. Let the GMs take the course of action if it should be approved or not to keep the ban up or not.
I can see that working to a point, but it's a VERY slippery slope to be on. How would you determine would be trustworthy? What power of authority would they have? How long could they ban/mute/reset someone?
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Look, Chaos, you are the only person on this forum taking the position that being in a virtual environment excuses being selfish or inconsiderate. You don't have your fellow players on your side, you don't have Cryptic or their Terms of Service on your side, and you don't have society in general on your side.
Yup some people tend to think its only online its fine to be a toolbag. Spamming poz and teleport powers breaks the TOS as it can be seen as trying to stop another player from playing the game.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I can see that working to a point, but it's a VERY slippery slope to be on. How would you determine would be trustworthy? What power of authority would they have? How long could they ban/mute/reset someone?
maybe its just that no one actually gets my point.. if you read my posts carefully you will notice that all what i said is that players should get a thicker skin...please read exactly what i wrote.. i always stated my personal opinion.
Additionally you should look at the text what others testing towards me.. its like they are attacking me for having a different opinion.
P.S. To me this all sounds like you have to be a mr.niceguy to everyone otherwise you are most hated person in this game.
P.S. I might be the only person here on forums but ive talked to PvErs and Duelists alot about this and they said "i couldnt care less if they spam powers".
maybe its just that no one actually gets my point.. if you read my posts carefully you will notice that all what i said is that players should get a thicker skin...please read exactly what i wrote.. i always stated my personal opinion.
Additionally you should look at the text what others testing towards me.. its like they are attacking me for having a different opinion.
People can see your point. Your point is its a game ignore them they cant really hurt you. This is true. BUT it is also against Terms of service to follow people about spamming powers its also not very nice.
Thats what people are trying to explain to you. The game Devs have made it against their in game rules to purposely annoy people over and over again.
You have a point thats sorta correct but your point at the same time is also sorta wrong. Welcome to the internet
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
maybe its just that no one actually gets my point.. if you read my posts carefully you will notice that all what i said is that players should get a thicker skin...please read exactly what i wrote.. i always stated my personal opinion.
Additionally you should look at the text what others testing towards me.. its like they are attacking me for having a different opinion.
I have followed everything (including what was deleted a bit ago) in this thread. That's fine and dandy that you have very thick skin and aren't effected by things that others do online or irl. That being said though, cyber has pointed out numerous times that he has been pushed to his limit (which considering the things that he's said on the forums in the past) means that it was a very high bar to begin with.
There is no mention of this being a casual incident. It wasn't just a random person that was passing through and used an in game device along the way at random. This is a focused agenda directed at cyber and a few of his friends consistently, on multiple occasions and from what he's said, for a longer time frame that would indicate more than just a passing amusement for the harasser. The others that understand his predicament are also backed up by the ToS stating that the kind of behavior that he is dealing with is not allowed according to the game rules. These are rules that EVERYONE must adhere to. We've all agreed to them (whether actually having read them or not) when we downloaded the game and created our various accounts.
It's not a mere annoyance to cyber anymore, it IS affecting his game play, and understandably so.
As far as the comment you quoted, it was aimed at drgmstr about his suggestion of adding ingame community moderators, and had nothing to do with you specifically.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
People can see your point. Your point is its a game ignore them they cant really hurt you. This is true. BUT it is also against Terms of service to follow people about spamming powers its also not very nice.
Thats what people are trying to explain to you. The game Devs have made it against their in game rules to purposely annoy people over and over again.
You have a point thats sorta correct but your point at the same time is also sorta wrong. Welcome to the internet
Nepth , so is it wrong to ask "why people care" ?
Its not that i said " go %&/$ yourself" .. i tried to write all polite and said people should lean back and dont care to much.. and then i get all attacked...insulted (( even if its kind of behind tha wall insulting )) and in-forum ignored ... but i didnt even spam or insult someone...
what i have mentioned before could be also stated as griefing or cybebullying...i get ignored without breaking any rule.
Back to topic,
about "griefing" rpers... this happens everywhere i noticed.. example:
As far as the comment you quoted, it was aimed at drgmstr about his suggestion of adding ingame community moderators, and had nothing to do with you specifically.
This ^ this is post of the year so far. The thread was Cyber informing us that GM is ineffectual in dealing with said troll and Chaos just tried to hijack the thread .
I will add this the GM should care less about names and deal with actual trouble makers. I will say this about Nyan Cat she did used to crack down on trolls. PWE should think about bringing her back if thats possible >_>
Its not that i said " go %&/$ yourself" .. i tried to write all polite and said people should lean back and dont care to much.. and then i get all attacked...insulted (( even if its kind of behind tha wall insulting )) and in-forum ignored ... but i didnt even spam or insult someone...
what i have mentioned before could be also stated as griefing or cybebullying...i get ignored without breaking any rule.
Back to topic,
about "griefing" rpers... this happens everywhere i noticed.. example:
if you do some research there are always people who say that they should not care to much and maybe the trolls stop trolling.
People got annoyed with you because you thought that every person that posted after you where replying to you. When to be honest they wernt the only one that really tried to discuss with you was jenny.
*will add it doesnt affect Cybers situation if people ignore you.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I can see that working to a point, but it's a VERY slippery slope to be on. How would you determine would be trustworthy? What power of authority would they have? How long could they ban/mute/reset someone?
Well seeing everyone here in this thread (excluding one other person) seems trustworthy enough to be suggested because we all do not take a liking to other players to interrupt other players fun, at least in a RP community point of view.
To -how- they have the authority I am sure the people at CN and PWE can think of something. Like here on the forums a community GM, there are some in-game in other PWE titles.
the suggestion was a shot in the dark and I do not expect it to be implemented, but it would gives us a shine of light that we enjoy the game even more than we currently are.
Just make different accounts to troll them, that easy.
Dont get your main account involved. Rpers are whiny even in WoW.
I won't get into the details of alternate accounts and the TOS that applies there.
But let me be clear.
1- Harassing other players, for any reason, is against the TOS. Maybe I prefer the path of 'being the adult', but I refuse to stoop to the level of an obnoxious child to 'get even'. IMO, if your idea of 'fun' in an MMORPG is harassing other players and preventing them from enjoying the game, then the ideal response is to terminate your account.
2- RPers are no more or less whiny than PvPers, mini-maxers, and the average WoW loot-grinding manchild screaming about EPIC PERPLEZ!!!!
15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:
a. harm minors in any way;
b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;
d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, junk mail, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or any other form of solicitation;
e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;
f. stalk, threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), spamming or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;
n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
The bit in red is my fave :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:
a. harm minors in any way;
b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;
d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, junk mail, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or any other form of solicitation;
e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;
f. stalk, threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), spamming or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;
n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
The bit in red is my fave :P
I'm kind of fond of (h), personally, especially in the context of this conversation. Best part is, it doesn't even matter if you succeed in disturbing the gameplay of others; the attempt alone is a violation.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Harassment is ALL about intent, and intentionally disrupting others is OBVIOUS when it happens. The duck is just continuing to troll, repeating the same things over and over and not paying the slightest bit of attention when people try to cure the ignorance. They did the same thing in Zone immediately after the part that got deleted. Legs are being yanked bigtime.
The way I had a Gm who must due to rules remain nameless, explained it to me a few years back is a persons desire over how others behave in any instance is their choice, and if you find it disruptive to move to another area yourself.
A group of players loitering around RPing does not constitute an in game event run by players. So they cant be disrupted in any meaningful way. Nor can one players wants trump anothers, hence if a player wants to say their RP is say constantly flickering in and out of existence by constantly teleporting etc, that is their choice and wont be punished.
While thats not verbatim that is more or less what I had explained to me years ago when i still bothered to RP in this game.
You want to RP safely, fly, and go to extreme areas of the game no one will even likely notice you.
Otherwise, give up hoping for admin in a game being run by a skeleton crew.
I'm kind of fond of (h), personally, especially in the context of this conversation. Best part is, it doesn't even matter if you succeed in disturbing the gameplay of others; the attempt alone is a violation.
Yes but for example in the case of this entire debate, the supposed harrasser can just as easily claim their own fun is being ruined by being told they cant be TPing around etc.
Who is to say the alleged offender here is an RPer portraying someone trapped out of phase desperate for attention and aid? maybe the OP put them on ignore before any Rped attempt to communicate was ready to be made?
My point is, even in these apparent cases of harassment it takes little effort to make it a case of one RPer complaining about anothers RP. Neither holds sway over any area in the game, thus it always falls to the one feeling bothered to leave the area rather then try to think their opinion has a place over the others.
If someone wants to RP as a giant shadow haunting CC and has every annoying aura and effect on, that is their right as much as any others to do anything in the game.
As another said in this thread, at some point its not harassment, just people being over sensitive.
And at some point, namely the case cited in Cyber's original post, it's just people desperately seeking for some excuse for a troll's behavior.
Look, I understand not being familiar with the customs of social interaction - I'm autistic myself. But they can be learned. And when you're doing that, and someone asks you to stop, and you don't - that's not being unaware, that's being a jerk.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The way I had a Gm who must due to rules remain nameless, explained it to me a few years back is a persons desire over how others behave in any instance is their choice, and if you find it disruptive to move to another area yourself.
This. I would like someone from PWE to publicly confirm that the policy on harassment is 'go somewhere else if you don't like people harassing you'.
Mierde de toro.
Methinks you may be pulling this out of your backside.
While thats not verbatim that is more or less what I had explained to me years ago when i still bothered to RP in this game.
You want to RP safely, fly, and go to extreme areas of the game no one will even likely notice you.
So, 'if you want to enjoy an activity condoned and supported by the GM's, developers, and employees of PWE/Cryptic- go isolate yourself and stay hidden.
I don't normally say this- but I think you're probably lying and making this up to validate your opinion on RPers.
And if a GM said these things? I hope his new job hunt goes well. They log their conversations with people for legal reasons.
Yes but for example in the case of this entire debate, the supposed harrasser can just as easily claim their own fun is being ruined by being told they cant be TPing around etc.
Except that only Cryptic can impose a no TPing around judgement in a situation such as this. The supposed harasser is not being affected by other players, but by those who represent the company that owns the servers.
This. I would like someone from PWE to publicly confirm that the policy on harassment is 'go somewhere else if you don't like people harassing you'.
Mierde de toro.
Methinks you may be pulling this out of your backside.
So, 'if you want to enjoy an activity condoned and supported by the GM's, developers, and employees of PWE/Cryptic- go isolate yourself and stay hidden.
I don't normally say this- but I think you're probably lying and making this up to validate your opinion on RPers.
And if a GM said these things? I hope his new job hunt goes well. They log their conversations with people for legal reasons.
I have seen a GM say something similar to what Skylyger claims.
Of course the GM was referring to not griefing/harassing back at your tormentor. If someone is harassing you, the GM said you should report the harasser and perhaps move away allowing Cryptic deal with the offender.
Yes but for example in the case of this entire debate, the supposed harrasser can just as easily claim their own fun is being ruined by being told they cant be TPing around etc.
Who is to say the alleged offender here is an RPer portraying someone trapped out of phase desperate for attention and aid? maybe the OP put them on ignore before any Rped attempt to communicate was ready to be made?
My point is, even in these apparent cases of harassment it takes little effort to make it a case of one RPer complaining about anothers RP. Neither holds sway over any area in the game, thus it always falls to the one feeling bothered to leave the area rather then try to think their opinion has a place over the others.
If someone wants to RP as a giant shadow haunting CC and has every annoying aura and effect on, that is their right as much as any others to do anything in the game.
As another said in this thread, at some point its not harassment, just people being over sensitive.
I have seen a GM say something similar to what Skylyger claims.
Of course the GM was referring to not griefing/harassing back at your tormentor. If someone is harassing you, the GM said you should report the harasser and perhaps move away allowing Cryptic deal with the offender.
Now, see, that is something that makes sense.
Personally? I think the solution to this is eliminating all travel powers in Club Caprice and other similar social instances- but that might be a bit extreme. Thoughts?
I remember at one point dueling in Caprice was allowed, and the furniture was destroyable- but people used this stuff to grief RPers and drop duel challenges and otherwise harass people (I heard it was pretty rough), and someone shut this down.
My point is, even in these apparent cases of harassment it takes little effort to make it a case of one RPer complaining about anothers RP. Neither holds sway over any area in the game, thus it always falls to the one feeling bothered to leave the area rather then try to think their opinion has a place over the others.
If someone wants to RP as a giant shadow haunting CC and has every annoying aura and effect on, that is their right as much as any others to do anything in the game.
As another said in this thread, at some point its not harassment, just people being over sensitive.
I might be inclined to agree except for the fact that the offender in the situation described in the OP is actively targeting other players.
Yes but for example in the case of this entire debate, the supposed harrasser can just as easily claim their own fun is being ruined by being told they cant be TPing around etc.
Except repeatedly spamming a TP on and off repeatedly to disturb someone isn't 'using a travel power', just like me taking a deuce on your front porch isn't 'using a natural bodily function'. Sure, it is- but there's more to the situation, and any idiot can see that.
Who is to say the alleged offender here is an RPer portraying someone trapped out of phase desperate for attention and aid? maybe the OP put them on ignore before any Rped attempt to communicate was ready to be made?
Because I'm not developmentally challenged, and you and I both know this isn't the case. Let's get real here.
My point is, even in these apparent cases of harassment it takes little effort to make it a case of one RPer complaining about anothers RP. Neither holds sway over any area in the game, thus it always falls to the one feeling bothered to leave the area rather then try to think their opinion has a place over the others.
If anything at all I said strikes you as 'someone else's RP', you're either illiterate or just need more time for the information and situation to sink into your skull.
As another said in this thread, at some point its not harassment, just people being over sensitive.
Actually, at this point, according to the TOS- it's bona fide harassment.
It's times like this I wonder how so many people function as an adult without reading comprehension when it comes to simple things like a user agreement that you sign/agree to. God help you ducks if you ever end up doing anything legal at any point in your lives. Please, please hire a lawyer. For everything. Ever.
As another said in this thread, at some point its not harassment, just people being over sensitive.
And here we have another champ who either needs to work on their reading comprehension or didn't bother to read through the thread at all to understand the proper context of the complaint.
I might be inclined to agree except for the fact that the offender in the situation described in the OP is actively targeting other players.
It's more like offenders. It isn't just one player, it's group of players sometimes, even an entire SG devoted to trolling. Cyber can vouch for me seeing we both are RPers and we see one another almost every day RPing in Caprice when I say trolls are becoming a big problem. You have to be a RPer in Caprice to understand what we have to go through almost on a daily basis.
Personally? I think the solution to this is eliminating all travel powers in Club Caprice and other similar social instances- but that might be a bit extreme. Thoughts?
I have suggested this before earlier in the thread, all powers including TPs and devices should all be disabled from use in social instances. For being a location to RP, I expect people to RP out their actions. And those who use shrinker and magnifier devices I will happily use my imagination viewing your character at the size they are bestowed in your bio.
I for one wouldn't mind this. I am not someone who uses the powers in my powers tray to perform a RP action while in a social instance. It'll also reduce the trolling that people spam TPs to push players, some who spam bubbles, water balloon/ party ball spammers, aura spammers that have all 8 auras activated and growth to the size of a 15 story tall building while standing in the hallways.
With that said, we would only have to worry about trolls who harass others verbally, which can be fixed with a simple ignore.
Why are you guys arguing with two people that are unable to read or to comprehend facts?
I posted the links to the actual TOS its clearly backs up what Cyber is saying. The person trolling him is clearly breaking TOS. Spaming powers to stop people playing breaks as Jon pointed out this part of the TOS
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), spamming or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
and this part.
f. stalk, threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
That two can BS till they are blue in the face who cares what they say they are wrong. Cyber bullying is wrong and just defending it is just plain stupid.
EDIT : And before the thought police say you cant say they cant read one of them obviously isnt a native English speaker. BOO HOO cry some more cause I'm not a native English speaker and I mange to read the TOS just fine.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Cleaned up the thread again. Several posts were inappropriate, hostile, and way off topic.
Don't take this the wrong way but that's three times this thread has been edited and it's not stopped the obvious baiting from happening. Nothing short of a forum ban is going to keep certain individuals from continuing to add to the pile if the thread remains open.
Cyber's situation seems to have possibly made some progress, so there's that.
Trolling & harassment will continue until there are more GMs in the game who will actually observe reports and take appropriate action.
Until such time however, Cryptic has adopted the "send us a letter and we might look into it" policy.
I get some almost everyday--it's gotten to the point where I don't even both with GM Behavior Reports b/c they're either not being read (aside from the auto reply), or nothing is being done.
Trolling & harassment will continue until there are more GMs in the game who will actually observe reports and take appropriate actions.
Until such time however, Cryptic has adopted the "send us a letter and we might look into it" policy.
I get some almost everyday--it's gotten to the point where I don't even both with GM Behavior Reports b/c they're not being read (aside from the auto reply).
Oddly enough, I used dirty words and within 48 hours I had my no-no-naughty-boy letter.
Apparently, a profanity filter being turned off doesn't mean you want to hear dirty words, I guess...?
Oddly enough, I used dirty words and within 48 hours I had my no-no-naughty-boy letter.
Apparently, a profanity filter being turned off doesn't mean you want to hear dirty words, I guess...?
Yeah, it's amusing how that works. It's like, if you didn't want to see it, why did you turn it off? It's like turning off Google Images safe search and complaining that you're getting porn.
Yeah, it's amusing how that works. It's like, if you didn't want to see it, why did you turn it off? It's like turning off Google Images safe search and complaining that you're getting porn.
The explanation I was given was 'they may be okay with dirty words, just not yours'. And oddly enough, for this particular event I was by no means the only one using said words, so in a bizzaro-world sort of way that makes sense.
Really? Wow. It's sad to think that there's preferences among or bias when it comes to tickets...
I would not want to make this accusation. I really wouldn't. But I will say that a 3-day ban out of nowhere and a rude GM from PWE have made me feel a bit less enthusiastic about how things are handled. Add this topic of the forum on top of it all, and I really start to wonder what's going on.
Again, I won't say 'bias' very often, but I will say it's 'odd'.
To me it seems some parts of CS are too disconnected from CO, and others are too "friendly", for the latter some more professional distancing would be good.
Without going into details(because that's a no no so just take my word for it...or don't)since the last "clean up" of this thread I can say the following things:
Ryder is correct about the profanity thing(except someone was nice enough to send him a letter) and that is reguardless of whether it is true or not.
It is my opinion that the CO has never had a decent CS department with the exception of "The Almighty GM Steve." There have been some decent GMs but they are few and far between. I, considering my background in things like this, believe the issues to mostly be on a proceedural level.
If I had done my job as an Server GM in the way I have seen things, which will not be mentioned in detail, done in CO and on those same time tables...I would have been shown the door in a heartbeat.
It has been my opinion, for the most part, that since 2009 the system has been woefully underperforming in these reguards. It is also my opinion, mostly, that since the game was aquired by PWI/PWE that this system gone further downhill.
Consider, just for a momment, that with my last issue I told some friends and such in channels and the overwhelming responses were along the lines of,"not suprised," "Yeah, good luck with that," and "You are so hosed I don't even know why you waste your time." This was only with me telling them I had a problem(vague details) and mentioning I had put in a ticket to CS. What does it say when this, in my experiences, seems to be the expected course of action? That you are more likely to get "canned replies", no help, or worse as opposed to...Customer Service?
Oh and let me tell you all straight up that if this sounds easy to you that's because it is easy. Sure, some grey falls into the equation from time to time but most of it is black and white. Here's the short list on a random issue:
1. Recieve Ticket.
2. READ ticket. Reread if necessary. You cannot have too strong of an understanding of someone's problem. If need be, check resource databases and/or consult with superiors(usually not necessary) and be prepaired.
3. Be timely. If you cannot reply to someone's plea for asistance within 24 hours(absolute borderline worst case scenario for 1st contact) then there is something wrong with your system. Canned replies like,"I see you made a ticket. Look at these links while you wait 3 days" are not acceptable Costumer Service.
4. Contact Customer. Be polite. Be nice. Empathize with their situation and use phrases like,"I'm sorry to hear you are having this issue. Let's look into it together," or "Let's see what we can do to help you."
5. Gather data. Tons of it. If the person wants to talk your ear off for 30m and it is relevant to their issue then you listen. After 30m try making suggestions for resolution since you shouldn't have to be there all day long(there are exceptions). Also, if they wander off to other subjects and/or try to prod you for "insider info" like,"So, when's that new X Class coming out," yeah, time to wrap it up.
6. Solve their problem. If it is within your power and rights to help this person...then ya do it. If it's a rare bug and/or account error then explain the situation to them and that you're sorry that you can't help them at this time but you're passing it along to tech support/dev/whatever
who will be with them as soon as possible. If it's over your head then either go get the person over you or contact them and tell the customer you'll get back to them asap with a reply as soon as possible.
7. Empathize with the customer some more. This is their "fun time. This is their "unwinding distraction time." They might have had a truly crumby day and they came home to this. Make them feel like you're trying your best to help them and that you want this solved as much as they do.
8. Free Time. This is not a big deal and should be the option of CS. Something like,"I'm really sorry it took these past 3 days but I think we have you sorted out and I'm going to go ahead and credit your account a week just for all you've been through." Now this doesn't happen every single time, of course. If it's a simple 10m job just say,"Well, I'm happy I could have been of asistance to you and I'll let you get back to enjoying XXXXXX now. Happy Adventuring!" In the case of a LTS/Froob(we didn't have these) have the ability to give them some kind of present. Make a Dr. Newbton II: The Sequel AF(devs would do the making bit of this, of course. You just hand em out) and credit it to their account. Just a nice little gesture to let the player know that yeah that sucked but it's all good now.
9. End on a good note. Be cheerful. Be polite. If they thank you then say something like,"No, thank you for playing and I'm glad we could fix this for you."
10. The Nuclear Option: Now sometimes people are not going to be happy to hear from you. Usually you're not catching people at anywhere near the peak of their gaming experience to be honest. If they drop a few profanities or sound a little bit irrate then that is to be expected....to an extent. Make some polite statements like,"I'm here to help you as best I can so if you can just please calm down and tell me about your situation we can get started." Now if they go 3 strikes and they're cursing you down like a sailor and have insulted everything from your family lineage to every pet you've had in your life then it's not your job to put up with that. So you use something like, "At this time I see that it will not be possible for me to continue this conversation with you in this state. I will try to get back in touch with you at a later time and we will try again." Now if they immediatly go into,"Oh oh wait. I'm sorry man. I'll tone it down," then give them one more chance....but only one. Your job as CS is not to be the personal punching bag for how the player thinks the company has screwed up the game and how they are personally being singled out because things like this obviously never happen to anybody else...let alone this is the 14th person you've helped today.
Ok, that was the short list. You don't want to see the long list. I don't want to type the long list. The point here is there are ways to do things and so long as you know what you're doing...it's really not that hard. I hope this lil nugget of insight has helped to illustrate just that. I'm going to stop typing right now. This madness has gone on long enough...for now.
Wow, Crosschan. That's pretty extensive. Honestly, what I'd suggest to resolve this issue would be the following:
1- Disable all powers in Caprice- 'super nullifiers', for the safety of all patrons due to the potential for escalated violence or something. Make it Canon somehow.
2- If you are reported for harassment in a social instance, you get a warning. A simple 'Cease and desist, if you believe you are receiving this message in error, please respond with a rebuttal'.
3- If you get repeated reports of harassment in a social instance, that are verified- you're locked out of Social Instances for 1-3 hours. I say this, because unless you're really being a jerk, 24 hours is extreme.
4- In extreme cases where the above two measures have proven ineffective, then 12-24 hours is adequate. I say this because at this point, someone has verified that you are harassing others.
5- If it's extreme, mute the player (if that's the harassment). Make a donkey head costume part and force the player to 'look like a jackass' all day. I don't know how legit this would be, but it's hilarious.
Yeah, it's amusing how that works. It's like, if you didn't want to see it, why did you turn it off? It's like turning off Google Images safe search and complaining that you're getting porn.
Infact I was once banned for using symbols to take the piss out of this specific thing.
"%()£$" is apparently me swearing and rather ironically it was believed.
For example if I say: "Go !$£&$ yourself you *%!£" $*&."
I actually could be saying: "Go treat yourself you great guy."
Not a bad system but 1-3 hours doesn't do anything really and atm I am aware of ONE GM so I believe a system that is more in tune with the resources would work(yes, that means harsher).
0. If you're on you GM invis and teleport to the instance. if you see the person "in the act"...you appear and have a "chat" with them.
1. Your step 2.
2. Step 3 but 24 hours. It's a social instance. You're not keeping the player from character progressing content.
3. I love step 5. Once upon a time a GM(who shall remain nameless even though most of you likely don't even know who he was) showed up in Caprice(before it was "OMG Caprice") and lectured some troll for destroying the furniture...and then turned him into a couch for about an hour. A patch came out shortly thereafter making the furniture there indestructable(but not in the VIP Lounge )
4. You've graduated from the "socially annoying catagory" to the "actual infractions, suspensions, and bannings" list. Proceed accordingly up that chart. Oh, and 24 suspension of account.
Keep in mind this might sound harsh to you but in my world we didn't have "social instance" because that was "the entire game." So on the normal servers you started at step 4. THAT was the warning. Now on my server we had far less rules...because it was the faction vs. faction open world PvP Server. It was an evil place. So long as the person harassing you wasn't using RL Racism(Fantasy Racism was acceptable so you could openly mock the wood elves and halflings if you wanted), exploits, or other such horrific things....yeah, you had to just suck it up...a GM would suggest that maybe you would be happier on one of the friendlier servers we had to offer.
Make a donkey head costume part and force the player to 'look like a jackass' all day. I don't know how legit this would be, but it's hilarious.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Comments
Coming from someone who hasn't made much logical sense with their arguments so far, this statement is highly ironic.
It does, actually. Don't know if it till works though.
It'll also be ironic if this entire time they were one of the many trolls who goes around harassing RPers. I've seen how they are in zone and gladly put them on ignore. ((Also thank god for the ignore script, thank you kaizerin for making one. This thread can now go back on topic))
I'd like to add a suggestion. Seeing that GMs are at a limit. Why not have community GMs in-game? Someone we can trust on and report problems to players we know we can trust that can go ahead and deal with these said trolls and report their doings to the real GMs to who and why they had to ban them. Let the GMs take the course of action if it should be approved or not to keep the ban up or not.
Handle: @drgmstr
"Embrace your dreams"
Come Check Out My PRIMUS Database Page!
Look, Chaos, you are the only person on this forum taking the position that being in a virtual environment excuses being selfish or inconsiderate. You don't have your fellow players on your side, you don't have Cryptic or their Terms of Service on your side, and you don't have society in general on your side.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I can see that working to a point, but it's a VERY slippery slope to be on. How would you determine would be trustworthy? What power of authority would they have? How long could they ban/mute/reset someone?
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Are you sure your not the duck :P
Yup some people tend to think its only online its fine to be a toolbag. Spamming poz and teleport powers breaks the TOS as it can be seen as trying to stop another player from playing the game.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
maybe its just that no one actually gets my point.. if you read my posts carefully you will notice that all what i said is that players should get a thicker skin...please read exactly what i wrote.. i always stated my personal opinion.
Additionally you should look at the text what others testing towards me.. its like they are attacking me for having a different opinion.
P.S. To me this all sounds like you have to be a mr.niceguy to everyone otherwise you are most hated person in this game.
P.S. I might be the only person here on forums but ive talked to PvErs and Duelists alot about this and they said "i couldnt care less if they spam powers".
People can see your point. Your point is its a game ignore them they cant really hurt you. This is true. BUT it is also against Terms of service to follow people about spamming powers its also not very nice.
Thats what people are trying to explain to you. The game Devs have made it against their in game rules to purposely annoy people over and over again.
You have a point thats sorta correct but your point at the same time is also sorta wrong. Welcome to the internet
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I have followed everything (including what was deleted a bit ago) in this thread. That's fine and dandy that you have very thick skin and aren't effected by things that others do online or irl. That being said though, cyber has pointed out numerous times that he has been pushed to his limit (which considering the things that he's said on the forums in the past) means that it was a very high bar to begin with.
There is no mention of this being a casual incident. It wasn't just a random person that was passing through and used an in game device along the way at random. This is a focused agenda directed at cyber and a few of his friends consistently, on multiple occasions and from what he's said, for a longer time frame that would indicate more than just a passing amusement for the harasser. The others that understand his predicament are also backed up by the ToS stating that the kind of behavior that he is dealing with is not allowed according to the game rules. These are rules that EVERYONE must adhere to. We've all agreed to them (whether actually having read them or not) when we downloaded the game and created our various accounts.
It's not a mere annoyance to cyber anymore, it IS affecting his game play, and understandably so.
As far as the comment you quoted, it was aimed at drgmstr about his suggestion of adding ingame community moderators, and had nothing to do with you specifically.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Nepth , so is it wrong to ask "why people care" ?
Its not that i said " go %&/$ yourself" .. i tried to write all polite and said people should lean back and dont care to much.. and then i get all attacked...insulted (( even if its kind of behind tha wall insulting )) and in-forum ignored ... but i didnt even spam or insult someone...
what i have mentioned before could be also stated as griefing or cybebullying...i get ignored without breaking any rule.
Back to topic,
about "griefing" rpers... this happens everywhere i noticed.. example:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10660796061?page=17
if you do some research there are always people who say that they should not care to much and maybe the trolls stop trolling.
This ^ this is post of the year so far. The thread was Cyber informing us that GM is ineffectual in dealing with said troll and Chaos just tried to hijack the thread .
I will add this the GM should care less about names and deal with actual trouble makers. I will say this about Nyan Cat she did used to crack down on trolls. PWE should think about bringing her back if thats possible >_>
People got annoyed with you because you thought that every person that posted after you where replying to you. When to be honest they wernt the only one that really tried to discuss with you was jenny.
*will add it doesnt affect Cybers situation if people ignore you.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Well seeing everyone here in this thread (excluding one other person) seems trustworthy enough to be suggested because we all do not take a liking to other players to interrupt other players fun, at least in a RP community point of view.
To -how- they have the authority I am sure the people at CN and PWE can think of something. Like here on the forums a community GM, there are some in-game in other PWE titles.
the suggestion was a shot in the dark and I do not expect it to be implemented, but it would gives us a shine of light that we enjoy the game even more than we currently are.
Handle: @drgmstr
"Embrace your dreams"
Come Check Out My PRIMUS Database Page!
Dont get your main account involved. Rpers are whiny even in WoW.
I won't get into the details of alternate accounts and the TOS that applies there.
But let me be clear.
1- Harassing other players, for any reason, is against the TOS. Maybe I prefer the path of 'being the adult', but I refuse to stoop to the level of an obnoxious child to 'get even'. IMO, if your idea of 'fun' in an MMORPG is harassing other players and preventing them from enjoying the game, then the ideal response is to terminate your account.
2- RPers are no more or less whiny than PvPers, mini-maxers, and the average WoW loot-grinding manchild screaming about EPIC PERPLEZ!!!!
Meh i hate to go offtopic but can you link the ToS page that says that?
i met many people inagme having multiple accounts.. even some with 2 lifetime accounts ..lol
all i found here is this:
https://support.arcgames.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1775/kw/Multiple%20account
And this:
https://support.arcgames.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1776/kw/Multiple%20account/related/1
Both Multi account and multi client is allowed from what ive read.
She is indeed the duck. If you people are going to continue communicating with the troll, I suggest getting one of these:
15. User Conduct
15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:
a. harm minors in any way;
b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;
d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, junk mail, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or any other form of solicitation;
e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;
f. stalk, threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), spamming or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;
n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
The bit in red is my fave :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Sorry, your level isn't high enough to have any effect here.
Even if you keep making new accounts.
But you now have +1Troll Point, spend it wisely.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
A group of players loitering around RPing does not constitute an in game event run by players. So they cant be disrupted in any meaningful way. Nor can one players wants trump anothers, hence if a player wants to say their RP is say constantly flickering in and out of existence by constantly teleporting etc, that is their choice and wont be punished.
While thats not verbatim that is more or less what I had explained to me years ago when i still bothered to RP in this game.
You want to RP safely, fly, and go to extreme areas of the game no one will even likely notice you.
Otherwise, give up hoping for admin in a game being run by a skeleton crew.
Yes but for example in the case of this entire debate, the supposed harrasser can just as easily claim their own fun is being ruined by being told they cant be TPing around etc.
Who is to say the alleged offender here is an RPer portraying someone trapped out of phase desperate for attention and aid? maybe the OP put them on ignore before any Rped attempt to communicate was ready to be made?
My point is, even in these apparent cases of harassment it takes little effort to make it a case of one RPer complaining about anothers RP. Neither holds sway over any area in the game, thus it always falls to the one feeling bothered to leave the area rather then try to think their opinion has a place over the others.
If someone wants to RP as a giant shadow haunting CC and has every annoying aura and effect on, that is their right as much as any others to do anything in the game.
As another said in this thread, at some point its not harassment, just people being over sensitive.
Look, I understand not being familiar with the customs of social interaction - I'm autistic myself. But they can be learned. And when you're doing that, and someone asks you to stop, and you don't - that's not being unaware, that's being a jerk.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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This. The leaps and bounds to justify sociopathic behavior in this thread is just appalling.
This. I would like someone from PWE to publicly confirm that the policy on harassment is 'go somewhere else if you don't like people harassing you'.
Mierde de toro.
Methinks you may be pulling this out of your backside.
So, 'if you want to enjoy an activity condoned and supported by the GM's, developers, and employees of PWE/Cryptic- go isolate yourself and stay hidden.
I don't normally say this- but I think you're probably lying and making this up to validate your opinion on RPers.
And if a GM said these things? I hope his new job hunt goes well. They log their conversations with people for legal reasons.
Except that only Cryptic can impose a no TPing around judgement in a situation such as this. The supposed harasser is not being affected by other players, but by those who represent the company that owns the servers.
I have seen a GM say something similar to what Skylyger claims.
Of course the GM was referring to not griefing/harassing back at your tormentor. If someone is harassing you, the GM said you should report the harasser and perhaps move away allowing Cryptic deal with the offender.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I totally agree with this.
Now, see, that is something that makes sense.
Personally? I think the solution to this is eliminating all travel powers in Club Caprice and other similar social instances- but that might be a bit extreme. Thoughts?
I remember at one point dueling in Caprice was allowed, and the furniture was destroyable- but people used this stuff to grief RPers and drop duel challenges and otherwise harass people (I heard it was pretty rough), and someone shut this down.
I might be inclined to agree except for the fact that the offender in the situation described in the OP is actively targeting other players.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Except repeatedly spamming a TP on and off repeatedly to disturb someone isn't 'using a travel power', just like me taking a deuce on your front porch isn't 'using a natural bodily function'. Sure, it is- but there's more to the situation, and any idiot can see that.
Because I'm not developmentally challenged, and you and I both know this isn't the case. Let's get real here.
If anything at all I said strikes you as 'someone else's RP', you're either illiterate or just need more time for the information and situation to sink into your skull.
Actually, at this point, according to the TOS- it's bona fide harassment.
It's times like this I wonder how so many people function as an adult without reading comprehension when it comes to simple things like a user agreement that you sign/agree to. God help you ducks if you ever end up doing anything legal at any point in your lives. Please, please hire a lawyer. For everything. Ever.
And here we have another champ who either needs to work on their reading comprehension or didn't bother to read through the thread at all to understand the proper context of the complaint.
It's more like offenders. It isn't just one player, it's group of players sometimes, even an entire SG devoted to trolling. Cyber can vouch for me seeing we both are RPers and we see one another almost every day RPing in Caprice when I say trolls are becoming a big problem. You have to be a RPer in Caprice to understand what we have to go through almost on a daily basis.
I have suggested this before earlier in the thread, all powers including TPs and devices should all be disabled from use in social instances. For being a location to RP, I expect people to RP out their actions. And those who use shrinker and magnifier devices I will happily use my imagination viewing your character at the size they are bestowed in your bio.
I for one wouldn't mind this. I am not someone who uses the powers in my powers tray to perform a RP action while in a social instance. It'll also reduce the trolling that people spam TPs to push players, some who spam bubbles, water balloon/ party ball spammers, aura spammers that have all 8 auras activated and growth to the size of a 15 story tall building while standing in the hallways.
With that said, we would only have to worry about trolls who harass others verbally, which can be fixed with a simple ignore.
Handle: @drgmstr
"Embrace your dreams"
Come Check Out My PRIMUS Database Page!
I posted the links to the actual TOS its clearly backs up what Cyber is saying. The person trolling him is clearly breaking TOS. Spaming powers to stop people playing breaks as Jon pointed out this part of the TOS
h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), spamming or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
and this part.
f. stalk, threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
That two can BS till they are blue in the face who cares what they say they are wrong. Cyber bullying is wrong and just defending it is just plain stupid.
EDIT : And before the thought police say you cant say they cant read one of them obviously isnt a native English speaker. BOO HOO cry some more cause I'm not a native English speaker and I mange to read the TOS just fine.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I demand a return of my post about being kind of a tough guy. That was important to the direction of this discussion.
Also, to update- whatever happened has worked... sorta. Seen the player, they went the other way.
Don't take this the wrong way but that's three times this thread has been edited and it's not stopped the obvious baiting from happening. Nothing short of a forum ban is going to keep certain individuals from continuing to add to the pile if the thread remains open.
Cyber's situation seems to have possibly made some progress, so there's that.
I don't mind a closing, to be honest. It seems like some steps were taken.
If there's a 'troll/harassment' thread in the future, I'll make it more broad and easier to discuss.
Until such time however, Cryptic has adopted the "send us a letter and we might look into it" policy.
I get some almost everyday--it's gotten to the point where I don't even both with GM Behavior Reports b/c they're either not being read (aside from the auto reply), or nothing is being done.
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Oddly enough, I used dirty words and within 48 hours I had my no-no-naughty-boy letter.
Apparently, a profanity filter being turned off doesn't mean you want to hear dirty words, I guess...?
Yeah, it's amusing how that works. It's like, if you didn't want to see it, why did you turn it off? It's like turning off Google Images safe search and complaining that you're getting porn.
Really? Wow. It's sad to think that there's preferences among or bias when it comes to tickets...
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
The explanation I was given was 'they may be okay with dirty words, just not yours'. And oddly enough, for this particular event I was by no means the only one using said words, so in a bizzaro-world sort of way that makes sense.
I would not want to make this accusation. I really wouldn't. But I will say that a 3-day ban out of nowhere and a rude GM from PWE have made me feel a bit less enthusiastic about how things are handled. Add this topic of the forum on top of it all, and I really start to wonder what's going on.
Again, I won't say 'bias' very often, but I will say it's 'odd'.
To me it seems some parts of CS are too disconnected from CO, and others are too "friendly", for the latter some more professional distancing would be good.
Ryder is correct about the profanity thing(except someone was nice enough to send him a letter) and that is reguardless of whether it is true or not.
It is my opinion that the CO has never had a decent CS department with the exception of "The Almighty GM Steve." There have been some decent GMs but they are few and far between. I, considering my background in things like this, believe the issues to mostly be on a proceedural level.
If I had done my job as an Server GM in the way I have seen things, which will not be mentioned in detail, done in CO and on those same time tables...I would have been shown the door in a heartbeat.
It has been my opinion, for the most part, that since 2009 the system has been woefully underperforming in these reguards. It is also my opinion, mostly, that since the game was aquired by PWI/PWE that this system gone further downhill.
Consider, just for a momment, that with my last issue I told some friends and such in channels and the overwhelming responses were along the lines of,"not suprised," "Yeah, good luck with that," and "You are so hosed I don't even know why you waste your time." This was only with me telling them I had a problem(vague details) and mentioning I had put in a ticket to CS. What does it say when this, in my experiences, seems to be the expected course of action? That you are more likely to get "canned replies", no help, or worse as opposed to...Customer Service?
Oh and let me tell you all straight up that if this sounds easy to you that's because it is easy. Sure, some grey falls into the equation from time to time but most of it is black and white. Here's the short list on a random issue:
1. Recieve Ticket.
2. READ ticket. Reread if necessary. You cannot have too strong of an understanding of someone's problem. If need be, check resource databases and/or consult with superiors(usually not necessary) and be prepaired.
3. Be timely. If you cannot reply to someone's plea for asistance within 24 hours(absolute borderline worst case scenario for 1st contact) then there is something wrong with your system. Canned replies like,"I see you made a ticket. Look at these links while you wait 3 days" are not acceptable Costumer Service.
4. Contact Customer. Be polite. Be nice. Empathize with their situation and use phrases like,"I'm sorry to hear you are having this issue. Let's look into it together," or "Let's see what we can do to help you."
5. Gather data. Tons of it. If the person wants to talk your ear off for 30m and it is relevant to their issue then you listen. After 30m try making suggestions for resolution since you shouldn't have to be there all day long(there are exceptions). Also, if they wander off to other subjects and/or try to prod you for "insider info" like,"So, when's that new X Class coming out," yeah, time to wrap it up.
6. Solve their problem. If it is within your power and rights to help this person...then ya do it. If it's a rare bug and/or account error then explain the situation to them and that you're sorry that you can't help them at this time but you're passing it along to tech support/dev/whatever
who will be with them as soon as possible. If it's over your head then either go get the person over you or contact them and tell the customer you'll get back to them asap with a reply as soon as possible.
7. Empathize with the customer some more. This is their "fun time. This is their "unwinding distraction time." They might have had a truly crumby day and they came home to this. Make them feel like you're trying your best to help them and that you want this solved as much as they do.
8. Free Time. This is not a big deal and should be the option of CS. Something like,"I'm really sorry it took these past 3 days but I think we have you sorted out and I'm going to go ahead and credit your account a week just for all you've been through." Now this doesn't happen every single time, of course. If it's a simple 10m job just say,"Well, I'm happy I could have been of asistance to you and I'll let you get back to enjoying XXXXXX now. Happy Adventuring!" In the case of a LTS/Froob(we didn't have these) have the ability to give them some kind of present. Make a Dr. Newbton II: The Sequel AF(devs would do the making bit of this, of course. You just hand em out) and credit it to their account. Just a nice little gesture to let the player know that yeah that sucked but it's all good now.
9. End on a good note. Be cheerful. Be polite. If they thank you then say something like,"No, thank you for playing and I'm glad we could fix this for you."
10. The Nuclear Option: Now sometimes people are not going to be happy to hear from you. Usually you're not catching people at anywhere near the peak of their gaming experience to be honest. If they drop a few profanities or sound a little bit irrate then that is to be expected....to an extent. Make some polite statements like,"I'm here to help you as best I can so if you can just please calm down and tell me about your situation we can get started." Now if they go 3 strikes and they're cursing you down like a sailor and have insulted everything from your family lineage to every pet you've had in your life then it's not your job to put up with that. So you use something like, "At this time I see that it will not be possible for me to continue this conversation with you in this state. I will try to get back in touch with you at a later time and we will try again." Now if they immediatly go into,"Oh oh wait. I'm sorry man. I'll tone it down," then give them one more chance....but only one. Your job as CS is not to be the personal punching bag for how the player thinks the company has screwed up the game and how they are personally being singled out because things like this obviously never happen to anybody else...let alone this is the 14th person you've helped today.
Ok, that was the short list. You don't want to see the long list. I don't want to type the long list. The point here is there are ways to do things and so long as you know what you're doing...it's really not that hard. I hope this lil nugget of insight has helped to illustrate just that. I'm going to stop typing right now. This madness has gone on long enough...for now.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
1- Disable all powers in Caprice- 'super nullifiers', for the safety of all patrons due to the potential for escalated violence or something. Make it Canon somehow.
2- If you are reported for harassment in a social instance, you get a warning. A simple 'Cease and desist, if you believe you are receiving this message in error, please respond with a rebuttal'.
3- If you get repeated reports of harassment in a social instance, that are verified- you're locked out of Social Instances for 1-3 hours. I say this, because unless you're really being a jerk, 24 hours is extreme.
4- In extreme cases where the above two measures have proven ineffective, then 12-24 hours is adequate. I say this because at this point, someone has verified that you are harassing others.
5- If it's extreme, mute the player (if that's the harassment). Make a donkey head costume part and force the player to 'look like a jackass' all day. I don't know how legit this would be, but it's hilarious.
Infact I was once banned for using symbols to take the piss out of this specific thing.
"%()£$" is apparently me swearing and rather ironically it was believed.
For example if I say: "Go !$£&$ yourself you *%!£" $*&."
I actually could be saying: "Go treat yourself you great guy."
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Not a bad system but 1-3 hours doesn't do anything really and atm I am aware of ONE GM so I believe a system that is more in tune with the resources would work(yes, that means harsher).
0. If you're on you GM invis and teleport to the instance. if you see the person "in the act"...you appear and have a "chat" with them.
1. Your step 2.
2. Step 3 but 24 hours. It's a social instance. You're not keeping the player from character progressing content.
3. I love step 5. Once upon a time a GM(who shall remain nameless even though most of you likely don't even know who he was) showed up in Caprice(before it was "OMG Caprice") and lectured some troll for destroying the furniture...and then turned him into a couch for about an hour. A patch came out shortly thereafter making the furniture there indestructable(but not in the VIP Lounge
4. You've graduated from the "socially annoying catagory" to the "actual infractions, suspensions, and bannings" list. Proceed accordingly up that chart. Oh, and 24 suspension of account.
Keep in mind this might sound harsh to you but in my world we didn't have "social instance" because that was "the entire game." So on the normal servers you started at step 4. THAT was the warning. Now on my server we had far less rules...because it was the faction vs. faction open world PvP Server. It was an evil place. So long as the person harassing you wasn't using RL Racism(Fantasy Racism was acceptable so you could openly mock the wood elves and halflings if you wanted), exploits, or other such horrific things....yeah, you had to just suck it up...a GM would suggest that maybe you would be happier on one of the friendlier servers we had to offer.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends