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Give Knock distance a cap.
xcaligax
Posts: 1,096 Arc User
It's just ridiculous how much of this an be obtained. Cap it to around 300 feet, which is the size of half a duel sphere from the middle. Anything higher than that is just silly. I mean really, who needs more than 300 feet knock distance in anything.
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Maybe they should go the opposite route and add goalposts over the dock hangar in the Nem dustup.
Kidding. Yeah I dun think there's a DR in place for knock distance, but there prob should be that or a cap.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Don't get rid of a great concept because of the duel bubble.
If you don't want ring outs in a duel...use team duel.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Knock already has a debuff system in place to prevent it from being effectively spammed. If you failed to block the first fully-charged knock attack while being close to the bubble's border then it's an error on your part.
Something like, 90,000ft should do.
Deliciously nutritious!
Although please keep this mechanic for boss battles. Those should have epic knocks.
Why would I want to knock an enemy out of the range of any follow up attacks?
| The Phoenix - A Fiery Jack of All Trades | The Nightmare - Dark Summoner | The Ranger - Archery/DB DPS |
| The Packleader - Bestial Petmaster |
..that many mobs seem to have the superpower of overriding on you
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I wanna see Caliga be like Superman!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJ2Bd41zsw
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If there are no bread to eat, let them eat cake!!! o3o
Thankfully many mobs telegraph their knock attacks, giving you ample opportunity to block. The only ones I had any real trouble with are those with shotguns. Even then they're pretty easy to deal with.
I can understand why people feel that knockback is such an irritating mechanic to deal with, but nonetheless it's a legitimate combat mechanic just as any other in the game. Knock is another form of mitigation plain and simple. Use a lunge to close the gap if you're melee. If you're ranged you should easily compensate since ranged attacks have pretty good effective distances. Knock debuff stacks do quickly build up on enemies when they're hit often enough with knock attacks in quick succession (after the first two attacks usually).
And yes, I know Behemoths don't have lunges, but that's a design oversight and you'll have to take it up with Cryptic for that.
Impulse ATs are built around knocks, so I'd rather adapt and deal with knocks in a positive manner rather than straight up tell Impulse players to stop knocking. It's not my place to impose my playstyle choices over theirs.
I think people have more of an issue with those that don't follow knock rules normally. I know that I've been perturbed a few times myself in Warlord, purely because my 14k HP tank gets tossed around for a good 20 seconds by thugs with shotguns, burning through my entire Unbreakable AD time, and I still haven't been able to launch a single attack since I've been airborne the entire time.
Three knock attacks, even if effective or not, will give immunity. This can be easily utilized for both aspects, be it tapping knocks for immunity so you can cut loose, or just cutting loose form the start so the enemies don't get a chance to retaliate. A prime example being the Impulse, as stated.
...But they do. <_< Mighty leap.
Aye on this. I can understand the system for it, possibly suggest a few things that, personally, I would prefer changed but, I also get the reasoning for it. Others, might not. Again, the utilization aspect.
Deliciously nutritious!
Please don't take what I'm going to say the wrong way, because I actually mean well.
Ditch Unbreakable. I'm sorry but it needs a serious overhaul.
Apart from that I agree that the shotgun thugs (they're called Hoods I think) need to take it down a notch, but as long as I make them priority targets when they appear and take them out as quickly as I can then they won't be any real issue.
This is what I usually do for my Quarry toon using Force Bolts as her main attack, and only fire off a fully-charged one if I knew it was the killing blow. Remarkably I've yet to get any PUG member berate me for the slightest of knockbacks that I'm doing.
Really? I seem to remember that it's the melee AT without a lunge. Huh, seems I remembered wrongly.
RIP Caine
Now that's knockback distance.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
o.o
o.O
O.O
| The Phoenix - A Fiery Jack of All Trades | The Nightmare - Dark Summoner | The Ranger - Archery/DB DPS |
| The Packleader - Bestial Petmaster |
I meant to say Force Blast not Bolts. Whoops.
I figured. I was just teasing. :P
A tap of Roomsweeper sends enemies over 120ft if you have SS Str.
| The Phoenix - A Fiery Jack of All Trades | The Nightmare - Dark Summoner | The Ranger - Archery/DB DPS |
| The Packleader - Bestial Petmaster |
I actually got knocked out of the ring in a duel yesterday, and I thought it was pretty spectacular!
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I think I could've taken him eventually otherwise. ;-) (or maybe not, he was tough!)
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I disagree 100% with Caliga and 100% agree with this quote.
By the way, you CHOSE to have a strong haymaker, Caliga. Don't whine about your own damned choices... sheesh
vote no!
Here's two easy reasons for me (and btw if I don't want to knock, all I have to do is apply 3 stacks of knock resist first):
That's because certain NPC powers (and also Force Geyser) are ignoring stacks of knock resistance (including ignoring blocking it would seem).
You do not nerf and rebalance how knocks work because of a stupid bug, you fix the bug! Duuuuuuuuh!
Come on people... USE YOUR BRAINS TO THINK! :rolleyes:
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D= But I wuv how it works!
...Also fun on Night Warrior toons.
Aye they is, and usually are a priority when in a team. It's just, they are a priority because of a break in mechanic rules, not because they are a threat.
I only get it rarely, and that's when I give no fudges and FC one into the next district.
Usually too busy laughing to care, and it's not like they don't usually die on impact anyways. I try to avoid it with Nemi's though...Just because I've played a melee brawler before.
Likely thinking of the Unleashed, the one with dual swords. That AT does not have a lunge, rather, Force Snap to bring others into range.
Deliciously nutritious!
I don't give a damn about duel bubbles.
I'd just like to be able to follow up on my own attacks, and be able to use the Might and Force powersets without severely irritating everyone else in group content.
Stacking knock resist isn't a solution, it's a bandaid. I shouldn't have to spam Inexorable Tides a bunch of times just so I can play Might without wanting to stab someone IRL.
And who said anything about removing knock? Just reduce it and maybe give it a diminishing return. If knock damage needs to be adjusted upward to compensate, then do it.
| The Phoenix - A Fiery Jack of All Trades | The Nightmare - Dark Summoner | The Ranger - Archery/DB DPS |
| The Packleader - Bestial Petmaster |
1) Fix knockback resistance so it makes mathematical sense.
2) Fix the attacks that ignore knock resistance/immunity (*coughVIKORINcough*)
3) Add alternatives that knock DOWN instead of BACK (Clothesline for Uppercut, Hammer Blow for Haymaker)
4) Add repels to a fixed Knockback Resistance/Immunity.
5) FIX KNOCKBACK RESISTS
Seriously though, nothing says "Great power choice" to me like a Circle of Prime Dominion or Unstoppable where Knocks send you around like ragdolls.
A great alternative to Haymaker without a knock is Burning Chi Fist. There's really no shortage of knockless attacks out there.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Or you could just lunge while reminding yourself that a melee attack not connecting costs no energy.
Cause lunging then having to wait to lunge again to attack is super fun ><
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
I wouldn't consider a 5s cooldown a long wait.
It's super easy to get it down to 1 - 2s too.
Yeah... about that... having your main target(s) getting Knock in Alerts by someone ALL the time and I MEAN IT all the time by SOMEONE who keeps SPAMMING fully charge Knocks (either that's Roomsweeper, Frag Grenade, Annihilate or Force Cascade) is not FUn... AT ALL... your Lunge will NOT save you
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
$Target is out of range
FREAKING HELL! It really piss me off when this happen while I play with Melee characters
Scattered enemies are harder to hit with AoE attacks as well
Also you know what is not Fun? when someone is Knocking NEMESIS to the Stratosphere
One of the reasons I hate Knock back and Only use Knock Up powers
Also reminding that NPCs' Knocks attacks never got revamp for alerts, and they don't apply Stacks of Knock Resistance on you
How would you like it if someone responds by saying "Stop playing crappy melee.", especially when range can perform just as sufficiently or even better in various areas?
Not pleasant? You got it. That's what happens when someone tries to impose their playstyle preferences upon others.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
I know I've knocked a few Nems around just cause at the time I simply I forgot they were a boss type that *can* be controlled. The game would lead you to believe otherwise in most other content, so its not hard for people to make that sort of mistake on the fly.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
It's a tricky one.
If we keep things as they are
On the one hand, it means you can ring out people easily if they have no resistance to knocks in a duel, which is less fun for the recipient.
On the other hand, it is HELLA COOL TO DO SO if you're the provider.
If we cap it,
On the one foot, it makes duels a bit fairer I guess? I don't duel enough to really know.
On the other foot, it's less fun playing for the provider.
And now I've run out limbs I can 'suitable for work'ly balance opinions upon.
I say things should be as they are. But I don't do much PvP because I lose a lot when I do anything multiplayer, XD.
So yeah.
But it is heckuva fun on npc enemies.
Maybe knockback should work differently when hitting a player to a npc then?
Far enough away that it's still BULK THROW YOU INTO THE WALL HARD
but not BULK THROW YOU INTO DEEP SPACE (8+1?) SO YOU AXPHYXIATE AND DIE A HORRIBLE PAINFUL DEATH WITH NO WAY TO RETALIATE
I'm sure annoying the hell out of teammates in Alerts and Nemcons is some people's idea of fun, but it isn't mine.
| The Phoenix - A Fiery Jack of All Trades | The Nightmare - Dark Summoner | The Ranger - Archery/DB DPS |
| The Packleader - Bestial Petmaster |
No energy, but time and DPS.
Chances are, I just got done lunging to get where I am. I have five enemies on me. I charge up an attack.... someone scatters everyone away with knockback. I pick ONE target, tap lunge, but it's on cooldown. I start running toward them and lunge when it comes back off cooldown. By the time I get there, my target is already down to 1/4 of its life. I take it out, find another target (behind me now), lunge... and it gets knocked away again.
As a melee character, sometimes I'd be just as effective standing by where the boss spawns and waiting. In fact I tried that once, but ironically, everyone stopped and waited for me to move on to the next group... and then knocked them away from me when I got there.
I can understand how knocking during missions...and especially Nemesis Smash Alerts...can be annoying.
However, it's the not the fact that there is no knock distance cap...it's the tactics of the player in question.
It's not about whether or not my character knocks the enemy back for 600ft or 300ft. It's the fact that I need to refine my tactics and hold back my knocks at certain times...which is not hard to do at all.
As for the duel bubble complaints...well that's just something I do not understand.
If being knocked out of the duel bubble bothers you so much that you feel you need to come here and post a suggestion to reduce knock distance...then you should simply Team Duel people.
We have this option. Anyone can use it by simply inviting someone to their team. This means there is no bubble...no refined duel area...no ring outs.
This suggestion would do nothing except take some of the fun away from the players who love this mechanic...which of course, I am one of them.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Get your lunge's cooldown to 1-2 seconds and the whole issue about the cooldown becomes moot.
Considering that playing melee is all about closing the gap, reducing your lunge's cooldown should be a priority if you want to be an effective melee player.
Closing the gap at 60ft within just one second is pretty impressive as it is. During the time when the enemy is airborne from being knocked, you have ample opportunity to run towards it if you need to compensate for it being further away before lunging.
When you play melee, you automatically accept that you're on a crutch compared to range and you'll always have to close the gap to remain relevant in combat, especially when it comes to DPS. That includes dealing with enemies that are knocked back.
No it isn't. There's nothing playstyle-relevant when it comes to blocking Ao's Lifedrain; You just do it for the obvious reasons, regardless of whatever build you're playing.
Make sure your toon has a non-knock primary attack, too.
Can't only rely on Haymaker.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Lunge cooldown yes, but the charge time is still wasted, the gathering of enemies for an AOE attack is also wasted, and 90% of the frustration is still there.
If a bunch of enemies are surrounding a tank, to knock enemies away from him is poor tactics. There is no way around that. It's just a stupid thing to do. It reduces team effectiveness.
Similarly, if a bunch of enemies are all being AOEd, to knock them out of that zone is poor tactics. Again, it is a stupid thing to do and it reduces team effectiveness.
A player who does that is a bad player. You can't transfer responsibility for it to the players who now have to scramble to keep up.
There are two valid reasons for knockback:
-- to get or keep enemies off you. When soloing, this is almost always relevant. In a group, you have to use some judgement.
-- because it's fun. When soloing, go for it! But if you think your fun is so important that it's worth taking away other peoples' fun as well as effectiveness, don't group with people.
Exactly, it's not a melee players fault that KB isn't managed well in a team setting, it's the player with KB.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Couldn't have put it better myself. If it's a boss that can be knocked thenI save my high knock abilities until I've gotten three stacks of knock resist on it, then I unleash hell.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf