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The Black and Red Disease has escaped!

twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
edited January 2014 in Off Topic
And it has infected the Fantastic Four!

The black and white design sketches look much better.

The ugly over-coloring on modern comic books doesn't help make the costume's case either.
Post edited by twg042370 on
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LOL!
    O Marvel, how low thou can go?
    ....
    Well, they could make the costumes out of leather.
    .....
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  • shadowzero66shadowzero66 Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    In darkest black and brightest red,
    No eye shall escape our visage.
    Let those who value good taste
    Beware our glow - the Blackredders!

    Oh wait- wrong group. :smile:

    In seriousness, older comics went with brighter colors but movies like to go with darker colors ever since X-Men. The color change seems a bit drastic; they could've went with a darker blue like the recent Superman movie.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    So lame. So, so lame.
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    yes well...
    well it's an update :rolleyes:
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  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    While I definitely liked the white and black uniforms...

    ...it's really a shame that no one can use red and black anymore because of this whole "blackredders" thing. It's like as soon as someone uses those colors, people automatically hate it.

    It is what it is I guess.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    People that wear black and red armor are the boss :D
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    While I definitely liked the white and black uniforms...

    ...it's really a shame that no one can use red and black anymore because of this whole "blackredders" thing. It's like as soon as someone uses those colors, people automatically hate it.

    It is what it is I guess.

    It's because it's so OVERUSED.

    As for this change? Way to go for unoriginality, Marvel.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,695 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Ewwwwwww

    I prefer how they are right now with there Black and White and Blue uniforms
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    While I definitely liked the white and black uniforms...

    ...it's really a shame that no one can use red and black anymore because of this whole "blackredders" thing. It's like as soon as someone uses those colors, people automatically hate it.

    It is what it is I guess.

    ^This.

    People have nothing better to do than pretend to be self-proclaimed authorities and arbiters of good taste. Also a self-proclaimed ones.

    As good color combination as any and it everything depends from the artist. Good artist can draw it well. Bad artist witl spoil any costume.

    Now, people need to stop to be elitist crybabies and move on. It's pathetic.


    Reminds me that I really need black and red costume variants for all my toons. Just for crybabies.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I bet the new title is Extreme Fantastic Four.....
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    ^This.

    People have nothing better to do than pretend to be self-proclaimed authorities and arbiters of good taste.

    As good color combination as any and it everything depends from the artist. Good artist can draw it well. Bad artist witl spoil any costume.

    Now, people need to stop to be elitist crybabies and move on. It's pathetic.


    Reminds me that I really need black and red costume variants for all my toons. Just for crybabies.

    The thing is, it's become the latest trend. When something becomes a trend, it becomes overused. When it becomes overused, people begin to dislike it because there's no variation.

    Further, it's the "easy way out." I find it more interesting when an artist comes up with a good combination of colors that isn't a "last resort." It's easy to go with black and red because it is a good color combination. But it's also two colors that are associated with being dark and edgy and violent, things that aren't representative of the Fantastic Four.

    For something like this? It's a shame because they're losing their iconic look. Not that they need brand recognition, but still. There's something to be said for being iconic.

    Changing the colors to be like so many out there? It's a detriment.

    All that said, I have been known to use blacks and reds in combination on costumes, but I'm always impressed more by other peoples' costumes when they come up with a great color combo that isn't black and red.
    biffsig.jpg
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    And?
    It's the latest big thing because it is popular.

    Comic book companies are enterprises. These days even more than before. They aren't obligated to pursuit anything else than popular trends, to sell books.

    Frankly, from "canon" point of view white-hexagon-black costumes were as bad. They weren't looking FF at all, at least not for me.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Oh yeah, it's popular, so we just HAVE to do it. Let's all become one with the pile of mediocrity and sameness! Down with diversity and individuality!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    And?
    It's the latest big thing because it is popular.

    Comic book companies are enterprises. These days even more than before. They aren't obligated to pursuit anything else than popular trends, to sell books.

    Frankly, from "canon" point of view white-hexagon-black costumes were as bad. They weren't looking FF at all, at least not for me.

    But they're not taking a risk to try and come up with something better, more creative.

    I don't think that's the reputation I'd want to have. The company that plays it safe and just does what everyone else is already doing. I'd want to stand out from the crowd.
    biffsig.jpg
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    It's because it's so OVERUSED.

    As for this change? Way to go for unoriginality, Marvel.

    If a combination of two colors makes it that big of a 'terrible change', I'd say the problem first and foremost is a costume DESIGN. Ho-hum tights, yay, whatever.

    I like the color combo, but not for Fantastic Four. Actually, I hate Fantastic Four anyway.

    But then again, the absolute revulsion towards any kind of change in the Marvel Universe is what brought us wonderful things like 'One More Day'.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    If a combination of two colors makes it that big of a 'terrible change', I'd say the problem first and foremost is a costume DESIGN. Ho-hum tights, yay, whatever.

    I like the color combo, but not for Fantastic Four. Actually, I hate Fantastic Four anyway.

    But then again, the absolute revulsion towards any kind of change in the Marvel Universe is what brought us wonderful things like 'One More Day'.

    I suppose the Fantastic Four do need some armor, and some shoulder and knee pads, and laced up boots, and face masks, and little pouches to put all their accessories in, and some spikes for good measure.

    Hey, color that red and black and you've got half of Champs players covered!
    biffsig.jpg
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I remember when I used to play Neverwinter Nights ( the original rpg game, not the new cryptic one ) and went onto some of the online worlds... red and black outfits were extremely common. I can't even count how much attention I got simply because I used neither color in my outfits. Might have been because I was one of the few people you could actually pick out of a crowd.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I suppose the Fantastic Four do need some armor, and some shoulder and knee pads, and laced up boots, and face masks, and little pouches to put all their accessories in, and some spikes for good measure.

    No, but they could use... something. They had a version a while back that added a little more to it than just 'tights with a white circle and a number 4'. Boring.
    Hey, color that red and black and you've got half of Champs players covered!

    See, here's where I have to rear back and slap the Silver Age sissy in you.

    1- Champs' color palette is really, really shoddy. I'd like an actual tan that didn't look like cheap khaki, for example. Or a dark green that was almost black until the light hit it just right, maybe even a bunch of mottled colors.

    2- Not everyone wants to play some 'tights and cape' Superhero, some people see excellent designs in tactical-ish heroes, tech heroes, and other things. Call me silly, but I think it's a bit more creative to roll up someone with an interesting accessorized look... rather than someone creating a generic character in tights and pretending they've made something unique because it's generic.

    3- Spending too much time worrying about what other people play in CO makes the game less interesting, one should worry about what they like.

    4- My character has (A few) pouches. I'd like to know where YOUR character keeps his house keys and cell phone... and how long it takes to get them in there.

    5- Because the Avengers, the new Batman movies, Man of Steel, and all of the more recent successful movies would have been SO MUCH BETTAR with classic tights, right?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    See, here's where I have to rear back and slap the Silver Age sissy in you.

    1- Champs' color palette is really, really shoddy. I'd like an actual tan that didn't look like cheap khaki, for example. Or a dark green that was almost black until the light hit it just right, maybe even a bunch of mottled colors.

    2- Not everyone wants to play some 'tights and cape' Superhero, some people see excellent designs in tactical-ish heroes, tech heroes, and other things. Call me silly, but I think it's a bit more creative to roll up someone with an interesting accessorized look... rather than someone creating a generic character in tights and pretending they've made something unique because it's generic.

    3- Spending too much time worrying about what other people play in CO makes the game less interesting, one should worry about what they like.

    4- My character has (A few) pouches. I'd like to know where YOUR character keeps his house keys and cell phone... and how long it takes to get them in there.

    5- Because the Avengers, the new Batman movies, Man of Steel, and all of the more recent successful movies would have been SO MUCH BETTAR with classic tights, right?

    I'd slap the "costumes have to be badass" iron age murderer in you, but there's no slapping in the iron age, only stabbings, and I couldn't do that to you.

    1- No it's not. I've seen lots of color combinations that are extremely pleasing to the eye.

    2- Not everyone is out to prove they're a badass by how much military gear and spikes they can fit on their armor. You're silly, because that's just your opinion. So tights are generic, huh? No way around that? Sorry, but that's just a dumb thing to say. Unless all your character's detail is popping out of his costume and is not detail on the tights, it's generic? Come on.

    3- I don't worry about it. I make jokes about it.

    4- I had this awesome idea. You get a pair of tights, right? You cut a discrete horizontal hole in them. Then on the inside, you get some fabric, and fold it, then you sew up the edges, and sew it to this hole you've created. It's pretty neat. I call it "pocket." The way you utilize this, is you take your hand, slip it into "pocket", use your fingers to grab your cell phone (note: you have to pinch the object between some of your fingers and your thumb), and then slip your hand back out. You'll be amazed when you see that a cell phone has emerged from "pocket!"

    To use Brigade as an example, he carries an iPhone around. I literally have no idea where he puts it, because IT'S COMICS! I don't care, I just want to draw pictures and make jokes. We're talking about a guy who can split himself up into multiple versions of himself that each come with random powers, some as stupid as the ability to chuck cats at people, and you're wondering where his house keys are???

    If I absolutely had to show where his iPhone is, I would use my invention of "pocket." It seems simple enough.

    He also has discrete wristbands that hold - among other things I have not invented yet - a grappling hook. How? Why does that work? Who cares, there's poop jokes.

    5- Not being able to travel to alternate realities, I myself cannot tell you these things. However, Spider-Man's costume in the Tobyvision versions was just like the one in the comics (except for the rubbery webs and whatever) and I thought it looked great. The movie didn't cause a market crash because of the costume, so I think we're okay.
    biffsig.jpg
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'd slap the "costumes have to be badass" iron age murderer in you, but there's no slapping in the iron age, only stabbings, and I couldn't do that to you.

    There are also shootings, usually with a firearm made entirely of chrome, with lots of vents, scopes, laser dots, and they must be larger than most household appliances.
    1- No it's not. I've seen lots of color combinations that are extremely pleasing to the eye.

    Pleasing to -your- eye, but for one, I think the colors are very limited to 'saturday morning cartoon 1980's' spectrum. Call me a weird nerd, but I used to paint miniatures and I'd like my character's color options to be more robust than a $5.00 Wal-Mart Testors set.
    2- Not everyone is out to prove they're a badass by how much military gear and spikes they can fit on their armor. You're silly, because that's just your opinion. So tights are generic, huh? No way around that? Sorry, but that's just a dumb thing to say. Unless all your character's detail is popping out of his costume and is not detail on the tights, it's generic? Come on.

    Not everyone is trying to 'prove they are a badass' even with military gear on their armor, and even with said spikes. For some, it's practical. My character carries a firearm- and therefore requires magazine pouches to carry magazines for said weapon. This is practical and makes sense, look at Captain America- even he had the sense to do it.

    Yes, tights in CO are quite generic, and thank God you can add some degree of a pattern to them to make them something more than a pair of silk tights that, in no way ever, would survive a fight imagined by anyone older than 7 years of age. You'd have your buttcheeks bare and a lot more hanging out, and the first draft of a cold breeze would make the ladies' day very interesting.

    Iron Man does not look cool in tights. They don't make sense for Batman. Nor do they for Captain America. Superman? Sure. Green Lantern? I guess. Fantastic Four? Might as well. When someone creates a character that is more complex that 'face puncher guy' or 'needs more than a generic power to make it through the story', it makes sense for their costume to reflect what they do.
    3- I don't worry about it. I make jokes about it.

    We're clowning colors, spikes, and pouches when in truth- WINGS AND TAILS EVERYWHERE.
    4- I had this awesome idea. You get a pair of tights, right? You cut a discrete horizontal hole in them. Then on the inside, you get some fabric, and fold it, then you sew up the edges, and sew it to this hole you've created. It's pretty neat. I call it "pocket." The way you utilize this, is you take your hand, slip it into "pocket", use your fingers to grab your cell phone (note: you have to pinch the object between some of your fingers and your thumb), and then slip your hand back out. You'll be amazed when you see that a cell phone has emerged from "pocket!"

    And you have a massive bulge (But not where you wish it was). UTILITY BELT. GET ONE.
    5- Not being able to travel to alternate realities, I myself cannot tell you these things. However, Spider-Man's costume in the Tobyvision versions was just like the one in the comics (except for the rubbery webs and whatever) and I thought it looked great. The movie didn't cause a market crash because of the costume, so I think we're okay.

    None of those costumes were 'silken tights', but the Tobyvision tights did depart a bit- personally, I liked the 'Amazing' costume better. When seeing things 3-Dimensionally, tights just look absurd without SOMETHING.

    Man of Steel? That costume made sense AND was faithful to the original.

    Face it. The image of the cheesy plain tights died right about when we started letting different races go to school together.

    And maybe I'm lensing- I actually like the Modern Age, because despite all the bad decisions someone's trying to fix what the fanboys and druggies (Morrison) have broken. And whatever makes the people who think they read Silver Age comics whine more wins in my book.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I suppose the Fantastic Four do need ... little pouches to put all their accessories in...
    There was an issue of Amazing Spider-Man during Straczynski's run, where Peter, in costume, was having to web up his civilian clothes and other gear (cell phone and such), and musing about it to himself.

    "I suppose I could put pockets into my costume. The Fantastic Four have pockets in their costumes. Reed Richards' alone are huge! But that's because he has to carry interdimensional doodads and ultimate thingummies in there. Or maybe he's just real happy to see Sue..."
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, am I alone when I think that Spawn was a pretty cool concept- but a 100% terrible execution? I remember everyone being up in arms about him, and the first thing I wanted to do was check him out. People told me:

    "He was a bad guy, who made a deal with a demon, and comes back and starts learning how horrible he was and tries to make some changes."

    "He doesn't jump right into being a hero, but he progresses toward it!"

    "He's ridiculously powerful, but only to a certain degree- if he uses up his power, he dies. So he has to be smart about it!"


    Like, that right there kinda sold me on it. But at the same time, by the time I was able to read it- he was COMPLETELY covered in spikes and running around with cannons... and the comics were BORING. NOTHING HAPPENED. And if there was something going on, I couldn't figure it out.

    Then I realized McFarlane got famous for re-drawing the same cover repeatedly and just changing the costume.

    And then I started reading X-Men again.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    There are also shootings, usually with a firearm made entirely of chrome, with lots of vents, scopes, laser dots, and they must be larger than most household appliances.

    Yeah but shootings are usually more humane. That's a dirty word in the age of iron. Lascerations and bleeding out, that's the way!
    Pleasing to -your- eye, but for one, I think the colors are very limited to 'saturday morning cartoon 1980's' spectrum. Call me a weird nerd, but I used to paint miniatures and I'd like my character's color options to be more robust than a $5.00 Wal-Mart Testors set.

    Exactly my point. The palette isn't terrible to a lot of people. I've only rarely wanted a color that wasn't there, and not all my characters are all bright and cheery RGB.
    Not everyone is trying to 'prove they are a badass' even with military gear on their armor, and even with said spikes. For some, it's practical. My character carries a firearm- and therefore requires magazine pouches to carry magazines for said weapon. This is practical and makes sense, look at Captain America- even he had the sense to do it.

    Your guns don't have an energy cell creating their ammo in the clip? What are you, 87 years old?
    Yes, tights in CO are quite generic, and thank God you can add some degree of a pattern to them to make them something more than a pair of silk tights that, in no way ever, would survive a fight imagined by anyone older than 7 years of age. You'd have your buttcheeks bare and a lot more hanging out, and the first draft of a cold breeze would make the ladies' day very interesting.

    I thought that the patterns were implied. I hardly ever see anyone use just the plain, one-color tights. Though, I have a character that does, and guess what? On any given day, he's the only one walking around without an overload of garish detail. You say generic? I say unique.

    And, are we still talking comics? Yeah? Okay. My tights are bulletproof and tearproof and provide all-weather comfort. Comics supertechnology. You know Offender? That's power armor he's wearing. Looks like spandex? Sure does. Supertechnology, yo. And guess what? It's freakin air conditioned.

    So do I sound like a 7 year old? If so, then so be it. I'll be blasting bad guys out of the air with fist-projected energy blasts while you figure out the important stuff like where your wallet is.
    Iron Man does not look cool in tights.

    Yuh-huh.
    They don't make sense for Batman. Nor do they for Captain America. Superman? Sure. Green Lantern? I guess. Fantastic Four? Might as well. When someone creates a character that is more complex that 'face puncher guy' or 'needs more than a generic power to make it through the story', it makes sense for their costume to reflect what they do.

    You keep saying everything is generic, as if putting on a kevlar vest, pouches, and using guns and swords to kill people is something unique in both this game and in comics...
    And you have a massive bulge (But not where you wish it was). UTILITY BELT. GET ONE.

    Okay Ricky Schroeder. Two things. This is not the 80s. Cell phones are tiny. An iPhone is less than a third of an inch thick. And it weighs just a few ounces. Second, you want me to get a ten pound utility belt so I can have a big ol' pouch to stuff a cell phone in? AND YOU'RE WORRYING ABOUT GIGANTIC BULGES WHEN YOU'RE WEARING POUCHES AND BELTS AND ARMOR, AS OPPOSED TO SLIPPING A TINY LITTLE PHONE INTO A DISCRETE POCKET?!

    You have made my head spin.
    None of those costumes were 'silken tights', but the Tobyvision tights did depart a bit- personally, I liked the 'Amazing' costume better. When seeing things 3-Dimensionally, tights just look absurd without SOMETHING.

    It departed a bit? You're talking about a bunch of costumes that departed a lot. Spider-Man's was a slight departure, and I think it looked the best.
    Man of Steel? That costume made sense AND was faithful to the original.

    Faithful? No. The colors were off, and they added needless lines and details. Faithful means true to the original. Spider-Man's was way closer. They added bumpiness to it, but the design was pretty spot-on.
    Face it. The image of the cheesy plain tights died right about when we started letting different races go to school together.

    Mmmmnope. There are still major companies producing comic books with heroes in tights. Green Lantern (not the silly movie version) still has a great costume. And tons of others. You be crazy.
    And maybe I'm lensing- I actually like the Modern Age, because despite all the bad decisions someone's trying to fix what the fanboys and druggies (Morrison) have broken. And whatever makes the people who think they read Silver Age comics whine more wins in my book.

    What exactly are "people who think they read silver age comics"?
    jonsills wrote: »
    There was an issue of Amazing Spider-Man during Straczynski's run, where Peter, in costume, was having to web up his civilian clothes and other gear (cell phone and such), and musing about it to himself.

    "I suppose I could put pockets into my costume. The Fantastic Four have pockets in their costumes. Reed Richards' alone are huge! But that's because he has to carry interdimensional doodads and ultimate thingummies in there. Or maybe he's just real happy to see Sue..."

    Yeah, he did that quite a bit. Usually he would stash his stuff somewhere but sometimes he would carry it around with him like a backpack.
    biffsig.jpg
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yeah but shootings are usually more humane. That's a dirty word in the age of iron. Lascerations and bleeding out, that's the way!

    Well, what about... a gun that shoots ten knives at a time, that explode into tinier knives? Also, I have to hide my feet.

    Mind you- I liked the Bronze Age more (That era you Silver Age sissies try to claim, or forget exists. It happened before the Iron Age- and I'm not exactly a fan of everything of the Iron Age, but at least we didn't get Bat-Baby and Lois spankings).
    Exactly my point. The palette isn't terrible to a lot of people. I've only rarely wanted a color that wasn't there, and not all my characters are all bright and cheery RGB.

    That's just it. Like, to do a good array of something that isn't metal or plastic- something like an insect shell? It's hard to get some of the colors. I think it's wrong to say 'lack of colors', it's just lacking in -shades-. I'd also like colors that played with the lighting effects more. Like, something black that had a blue sheen to it.
    Your guns don't have an energy cell creating their ammo in the clip? What are you, 87 years old?

    Directed energy weapons are against the Geneva Convention, and using good ol' Winchester brass 'n lead keeps hard-working Americans in business.
    I thought that the patterns were implied. I hardly ever see anyone use just the plain, one-color tights. Though, I have a character that does, and guess what? On any given day, he's the only one walking around without an overload of garish detail. You say generic? I say unique.

    You say unique, as do all of the elitists playing generic toons in tights. Really.
    And, are we still talking comics? Yeah? Okay. My tights are bulletproof and tearproof and provide all-weather comfort. Comics supertechnology. You know Offender? That's power armor he's wearing. Looks like spandex? Sure does. Supertechnology, yo. And guess what? It's freakin air conditioned.

    And that works for some. Namely, anyone with the suspension of disbelief of a child. Most older readers can appreciate a cool costume (Like yours), but we want the appearance to have a bit more.
    So do I sound like a 7 year old? If so, then so be it. I'll be blasting bad guys out of the air with fist-projected energy blasts while you figure out the important stuff like where your wallet is.

    Let's be honest- I know which pouch mine's in. Which of my pouches is YOUR wallet in?
    You keep saying everything is generic, as if putting on a kevlar vest, pouches, and using guns and swords to kill people is something unique in both this game and in comics...

    And you keep saying these things like they're some 'Iron Age Murderer Apparel', despite the last time these things weren't common was during the Silver Age. For every massive gun in the 90's, I give you two Silver Age characters that were so absurdly stupid that people have fought tooth and nail against druggies like Morrison to keep them out of comics forever.
    Okay Ricky Schroeder. Two things. This is not the 80s. Cell phones are tiny. An iPhone is less than a third of an inch thick. And it weighs just a few ounces. Second, you want me to get a ten pound utility belt so I can have a big ol' pouch to stuff a cell phone in? AND YOU'RE WORRYING ABOUT GIGANTIC BULGES WHEN YOU'RE WEARING POUCHES AND BELTS AND ARMOR, AS OPPOSED TO SLIPPING A TINY LITTLE PHONE INTO A DISCRETE POCKET?!

    Oh, that's right. Every 'legit' superhero needs to be able to win the genetic lottery, or have the infinite resources to have 'skin tight armor' and 'super strength' and 'fist beams'. Guess all the others should sit on the bench.

    After all, no one like that has -ever- been popular.
    Mmmmnope. There are still major companies producing comic books with heroes in tights. Green Lantern (not the silly movie version) still has a great costume. And tons of others. You be crazy.

    Like who, 'Dynamite Comics'? And New 52 sort of rebooted most of the costumes.
    What exactly are "people who think they read silver age comics"?
    The same people who apparently know just as much about the Iron Age as they do the Silver Age, because the 'Iron Age was a bunch of guns and death', not an era where some of the greatest comics events in comics history took place.

    But, you know. Batman and Robin sharing a bed. Jimmy Olsen marries a gorilla. Silver Age masterpieces.

    Crisis happened for a reason, man. Deal with it.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The same people who apparently know just as much about the Iron Age as they do the Silver Age, because the 'Iron Age was a bunch of guns and death', not an era where some of the greatest comics events in comics history took place.

    But, you know. Batman and Robin sharing a bed. Jimmy Olsen marries a gorilla. Silver Age masterpieces.

    Crisis happened for a reason, man. Deal with it.

    Iron Age comics? I lived though it buddy! Young Blood, Spawn, X-Force, WildC.A.T.S, Marvel 2099...yeah, those are the comics I grew up with.

    Yet these days I more often than no spend my money on used editions of Marvel Essentials, typically 25+ issues of black and white reprinted Silver Age Comics! Why? because they're silly and awesome and I enjoy them...and that's just my opinion, but it is the only justification I need.

    Also there you go picking on poor ol DC again... seriously it's too easy.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    Iron Age comics? I lived though it buddy! Young Blood, Spawn, X-Force, WildC.A.T.S, Marvel 2099...yeah, those are the comics I grew up with.

    I said earlier I thought Spawn was a good concept, but I think that same concept would have flourished in a universe with other heroes like DC (A Spawn/Hellblazer comic could have been amazing) or Marvel (Spawn teaming up with Ghost Rider, under the guidance of Dr. Strange? HELL YES. Pun intended).

    Young Blood? Listen, Image was... bad. It was a company that had ZERO guidance, and it was like every bad reference of the 1990's EVER. Like, seriously- Image was the main culprit. The only Image comics I could ever read in earnest? GI Joe in 2001.

    X-Force wasn't bad. Leifeld was bad. Remember, every time you talk about how absurd Cable or Deadpool is, I can point you back to Wolverine- whom I fully blame for the overload of 'badasses' in the 90's.

    WildC.A.T.S. was one of my favorite series of all time, and I loved the show more than X-Men. Grifter was a better Deadpool. Smartass, good at what he did, but at the same time he knew when to be a professional. I was sad to see he didn't get enough of his due in New 52, but I was pleased at the Flashpoint Paradox animated movie where he managed to bust a cap in an Amazon after she shot him through the skull with an arrow.

    Marvel 2099? I have on memory of this. I had a 2099 Unlimited comic, ate bad pizza, and threw up all over the comic book and passed out. Woke up in the doctor's office with a raging fever. To this day, I have a mild aversion. But I hear the concept wasn't really bad, and Ghost Rider looks kinda... weird.
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    Also there you go picking on poor ol DC again... seriously it's too easy.

    You're right, I do give DC more. Maybe it's because DC openly claims and pretends it had nothing to do with the absurdity of the Iron Age (Lobo?). And that they didn't jump on 'EXTEME!' bandwagons (Azrael Batman?) or that they never had to do silly publicity stunts like Marvel (Jason Todd?, Death of Superman?, Gay Green Lantern 1?).

    So, do I like DC characers? I PREFER them. I simply hate DC writers.

    And after Marvel makes 'One More Day', there's not much more I can do to abuse them. The shame of that should be more than enough.
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    On any given day, he's the only one walking around without an overload of garish detail. You say generic?

    Back in the 1970s, young me had a polyester disco suit. It was a different world back then.

    It wa0s already eye-catching enough with it's wide lapels and floor-sweeper trousers. Yet for some reason the manufacturer decided that it also needed to have a red and burgundy plaid pattern on it. It really didn't need to have that added to it. It's very similar to thinking that since vanilla is tasty and tomatoes are tasty, that making a vanilla tomato smoothy is a great idea.

    That's the main problem with 90% of the character designing done in the game. Everyone looks like they clicked the "random" button and then added a pitch-black wolf head to the result.

    But it's not all dire. I just thirty minutes ago saw a tights wearing hero who made good use of white, blue, partial mask, and the more subtle shoulder pads and arm accessories. They fit the sparkly FX of the Glacier (I assume that's what the were playing). They made sure that everything matched and looked good together. They created a stylish ensemble.

    That person, whoever they may be, is probably the best-dressed person at the comic shop.
    People have nothing better to do than pretend to be self-proclaimed authorities and arbiters of good taste.

    That's something only people with bad taste claim.
    And New 52 sort of rebooted most of the costumes.

    Jim Lee can't design his way out of a paper bag.
    _________________
    Wait? Whaaaa..?
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    And after Marvel makes 'One More Day', there's not much more I can do to abuse them. The shame of that should be more than enough.




    Yes, that stunt was a bit heartbreaking honestly, and I am not one to take my funny pages seriously.


    I miss Spider-Girl.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    liked the Bronze Age more (That era you Silver Age sissies try to claim, or forget exists. It happened before the Iron Age- and I'm not exactly a fan of everything of the Iron Age, but at least we didn't get Bat-Baby and Lois spankings).

    I don't know who you're speaking for, but I got my start in comics during the bronze age. I thought it was great.
    Directed energy weapons are against the Geneva Convention, and using good ol' Winchester brass 'n lead keeps hard-working Americans in business.

    Ah, only if they affect the central nervous system or cause unnecessary damage. Mine are completely non-lethal and have no long-lasting effects. They're made by Pfizer.
    You say unique, as do all of the elitists playing generic toons in tights. Really.

    Nope, I say unique because I've never seen anything like it in the game (except when one guy straight up copied my design).

    Also it's funny that you call me an elitist, when you're exhibiting the exact same behavior at the opposite end.
    And that works for some. Namely, anyone with the suspension of disbelief of a child. Most older readers can appreciate a cool costume (Like yours), but we want the appearance to have a bit more.

    Why? Is there a logical way to quantify just when you've put enough detail in? I don't think you qualify to speak for most older readers since you're just one guy.

    So, a guy that's bulletproof, a guy that has a stupid metal skeleton and can't be killed, a guy that turns into a green monster because of gamma radiation, a guy that can split himself into multiple copies of himself, that's all good, but tear-proof tights are crossing into child territories? You've drawn a completely weird-**** line that's absolutely impossible to tell when it's been crossed.
    Let's be honest- I know which pouch mine's in. Which of my pouches is YOUR wallet in?

    My wallet is fake. The only thing in it is a combination EMP stun bomb that is activated based on the proximity of it to my ****. Sweet dreams!
    And you keep saying these things like they're some 'Iron Age Murderer Apparel', despite the last time these things weren't common was during the Silver Age. For every massive gun in the 90's, I give you two Silver Age characters that were so absurdly stupid that people have fought tooth and nail against druggies like Morrison to keep them out of comics forever.

    That... doesn't make them not things to kill people with. The point is, you're looking at something you just don't like and calling it generic while you're doing the same thing so many people do in the game.
    Oh, that's right. Every 'legit' superhero needs to be able to win the genetic lottery, or have the infinite resources to have 'skin tight armor' and 'super strength' and 'fist beams'. Guess all the others should sit on the bench.

    After all, no one like that has -ever- been popular.

    You're arguing about things I never said. I didn't say superhero tech is the only way to have a legitimate superhero.

    Hell all I was saying in the part you quoted is that a small pocket will hold a cell phone that's not from the 80s and not leave a gigantic bulge, whereas in comparison, you're saying to get a utility belt, which is, just by the nature of the thing itself, more bulky.
    Like who, 'Dynamite Comics'? And New 52 sort of rebooted most of the costumes.

    And many of the ones I've seen are tights. And last I checked it's not the 70s anymore.
    The same people who apparently know just as much about the Iron Age as they do the Silver Age, because the 'Iron Age was a bunch of guns and death', not an era where some of the greatest comics events in comics history took place.

    But, you know. Batman and Robin sharing a bed. Jimmy Olsen marries a gorilla. Silver Age masterpieces.

    Crisis happened for a reason, man. Deal with it.

    So even though I read and enjoyed the Bronze Age, then read and stopped reading Iron Age due to stupid storylines and ultraviolence being hip and edgy, and have read Silver Age comics which I really enjoy, I only think I've read Silver Age?

    I wasn't even interested in anything before the Bronze age until my brother showed me one of his Marvel Essentials, and thought it was so cool that I started reading the Spider-Man essentials. Most of my life, all I'd known about comics is Bronze and Iron Age. So I really don't know what point you're trying to make.

    And I don't know what happened in Crisis and those other silly things you said. DC is hooey.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Oh and regarding silly things that may have happened in the silver age...

    tumblr_m3v0whQD5R1rtd8ego1_400.jpg

    This is your era, man.
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  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think I have some of those Deathmate issues somewhere...


    lol Valiant.


    One word.


    Ninjak.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    Iron Age comics? I lived though it buddy! Young Blood, Spawn, X-Force, WildC.A.T.S, Marvel 2099...yeah, those are the comics I grew up with.

    Yet these days I more often than no spend my money on used editions of Marvel Essentials, typically 25+ issues of black and white reprinted Silver Age Comics! Why? because they're silly and awesome and I enjoy them...and that's just my opinion, but it is the only justification I need.

    This is exactly where I'm at.

    I do also read Hawkeye though.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    I think I have some of those Deathmate issues somewhere...


    lol Valiant.


    One word.


    Ninjak.

    The best part about that cover? DEATHMATE is the only thing written on there that doesn't have a direct relation to "blood."
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  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    also Ultraforce, because it amuses me to mention it.

    24wu5gl.jpg


    I should totally read more Hawkeye, what I have seen of the new series is neat.

    I read Superior Spider-Man....

    They brought back Miguel O'Hara! I hope they do some more stuff with him...it was kind of nice having a Spider-Man I could cheer for again.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I don't know who you're speaking for, but I got my start in comics during the bronze age. I thought it was great.

    See, THAT was when comics got much better. When people could write decent stories without too many restrictions. I find it has more in common with the Modern Age in terms of balance of types of heroes.
    Ah, only if they affect the central nervous system or cause unnecessary damage. Mine are completely non-lethal and have no long-lasting effects. They're made by Pfizer.

    But wait!
    My wallet is fake. The only thing in it is a combination EMP stun bomb that is activated based on the proximity of it to my ****. Sweet dreams!

    Congratulations- you've caused severe neurological damage to all nearby persons. Better lawyer up!

    (No, for real- I LOVE this one in RP. Most people don't realize that an EMP can cause severe problems in people, and even in homes where it's mild it can be very negative over time.)
    Nope, I say unique because I've never seen anything like it in the game (except when one guy straight up copied my design).

    Also it's funny that you call me an elitist, when you're exhibiting the exact same behavior at the opposite end.

    Actually, I think I'm being a little bit on the fair side- there was, at one time, an overwhelming number of roleplayers that basically pooped on anything that wasn't 'traditional tights'. I think that having a combination of black and red isn't a bad thing. I think traditional tights are not a bad thing. I just think saying one is more valid than another, aside from playful joking- is BS. No matter what end of the spectrum you support. I just personally find CO's tights a bit boring unless you throw a few interesting things on there. But, maybe that's the Mary Sue in me- I'm military, so I'm used to pouches IRL- and needing every one of them. My combat load has 10 pouches on the vest alone.
    Why? Is there a logical way to quantify just when you've put enough detail in? I don't think you qualify to speak for most older readers since you're just one guy.

    When the technology and techniques we have today give us the ability to make things look more realistic, I think it ought to be done. Mind you, most of the Golden and Silver Age characters looked a certain way not because of legitimate choice- but because of limitations on colors and technology.
    So, a guy that's bulletproof, a guy that has a stupid metal skeleton and can't be killed, a guy that turns into a green monster because of gamma radiation, a guy that can split himself into multiple copies of himself, that's all good, but tear-proof tights are crossing into child territories? You've drawn a completely weird-**** line that's absolutely impossible to tell when it's been crossed.

    Eufiber. Look into a game called Aberrant. It's not a bad concept at all. I liked how it was done there (It basically synched with the genetics of the person wearing it, so it worked with their powers and other attributes could be added to it. So, invisible people could wear their costume and be invisible, fire people didn't burn their tights, etc)

    That... doesn't make them not things to kill people with. The point is, you're looking at something you just don't like and calling it generic while you're doing the same thing so many people do in the game.[/quote]

    Fists kill. Energy weapons kill. Some heroes choose to use the tools they're skilled with, and use them responsibly (Captain America has, on MANY occasions, used a gun. And I don't care what you say about Iron Man- his entire costume is a weapon- and he designed WAR MACHINE for God's sake.). I'll take a gun ANY DAY over bad stories and one-dimensional throwaway villains.

    I've yet to see someone take my costume except maybe once, and even then it looked like a bad imitation overloaded with details. I designed mine based off a character from tabletop years ago (With minor differences, since I can't add a pattern to the faceplate). I keep my colors limited to 1-2 (greys, reds, blacks, some lighter white-ash), because I use the textures of the cyberpunk tights to give it an interesting look up close, while from a distance it looks more simple.

    3nJF7fs.jpg

    And many of the ones I've seen are tights. And last I checked it's not the 70s anymore.

    And those tights have patterns to them, something to give them finer details. Something that appeals to more modern readers. if those are tights- then I like those tights.
    And I don't know what happened in Crisis and those other silly things you said. DC is hooey.

    OKay. You could be saved. I'll narrow down the Crisis for you:

    The Silver Age did a LOT of stupid stuff. Not just cheese, but I mean- a lot of writers not being on the same sheet of music. Crisis... kinda... fixed it. Not really. But... kinda. DC likes reboots, but they've yet to master it.

    It basically solidified the Universe and made all the characters' continuities mesh together.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    BUNPYht.jpg

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    ZK7FyHY.jpg

    What were you saying about sociopathic and deranged 90's comics?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    caused severe neurological damage to all nearby persons. Better lawyer up!

    (No, for real- I LOVE this one in RP. Most people don't realize that an EMP can cause severe problems in people, and even in homes where it's mild it can be very negative over time.)

    That's cool, but, since we're not talking about real life, it doesn't apply. Obviously it's a modified version of EMP (actually called FR-EMP - I'll let you figure out why - I'd just dumbed it down to EMP for the sake of brevity).

    You like that? I just retconned a post.
    Actually, I think I'm being a little bit on the fair side- there was, at one time, an overwhelming number of roleplayers that basically pooped on anything that wasn't 'traditional tights'. I think that having a combination of black and red isn't a bad thing. I think traditional tights are not a bad thing. I just think saying one is more valid than another, aside from playful joking- is BS. No matter what end of the spectrum you support. I just personally find CO's tights a bit boring unless you throw a few interesting things on there. But, maybe that's the Mary Sue in me- I'm military, so I'm used to pouches IRL- and needing every one of them. My combat load has 10 pouches on the vest alone.

    Makes sense. I don't ever go around telling people that they're making costumes the wrong way, but I will express my opinion when I see something I think is an eyesore. And that's not limited to THE MAX-SLIDER DEMON FROM SUPERHELL.
    When the technology and techniques we have today give us the ability to make things look more realistic, I think it ought to be done. Mind you, most of the Golden and Silver Age characters looked a certain way not because of legitimate choice- but because of limitations on colors and technology.

    Yes I'm totally aware. But, I disagree with you completely on the first sentence. I like stylization. I get bored with realistic. I see realistic every day of my life. It's neat when a certain media can make things look real, for the wow factor, but I'd rather watch The Incredibles than Beowulf ANY day. AAAAANY day.

    But today, my style of drawing comics is to incorporate some of the things that they did in the Golden and Silver and Bronze Ages, because of legitimate choice. Just because they were pushed into a corner doesn't mean the art was bad, by any means.
    Eufiber. Look into a game called Aberrant. It's not a bad concept at all. I liked how it was done there (It basically synched with the genetics of the person wearing it, so it worked with their powers and other attributes could be added to it. So, invisible people could wear their costume and be invisible, fire people didn't burn their tights, etc)

    ...so this is cool, but not armor that appears skin tight? Your line remains weird-****. :P
    Fists kill.

    Uh huh, if you employ them in that manner. I could point you to several people I've punched during my lifetime and they'll be able to tell you that fists don't always kill.
    Energy weapons kill.

    If they're designed to.
    And those tights have patterns to them, something to give them finer details. Something that appeals to more modern readers. if those are tights- then I like those tights.

    I dislike those, to be honest. The characters in Invincible? I think they have great costumes. No need to complicate them with zippers and ribbing and leather.
    It basically solidified the Universe and made all the characters' continuities mesh together.

    Oh I have heard about this. Sounds overly complicated. Will probably not read.
    biffsig.jpg
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    What were you saying about sociopathic and deranged 90's comics?

    That the ones I read didn't have the letters D and C on them!

    More seriously, the ones I've read haven't had this kind of stuff. I actually haven't read very much Silver Age. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Hulk, X-Men. Possibly a couple others I'm not remembering.
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    That's something only people with bad taste claim.

    A good rule of thumb is - everyone who claims that has any right to declare what taste is "bad" or "good" and is not an accomplished art critic, is a self-proclaimed authority at best, and his purely private opinion isn't worthy of pixels on his screen.


    And can declare other people's taste bad till the kingdom comes.

    :cool:
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    That the ones I read didn't have the letters D and C on them!

    OK, then you need to understand something right now.

    Marvel, under the Comics Code? It CHAFED. It wriggled and fought tooth and nail to get around the restrictions. And it beat the Comics Code. Marvel was the first to step up and say "You don't have to be a perfect little white Christian with the perfect nuclear family and the perfect grades and perfect athletic skill to be a hero". THAT was pretty much anti-Silver Age.

    DC, during the Silver Age- was the main Silver Age I lash out against, because they were under it longer and didn't fight it at all. They 'thrived' under it and supported it, because who the hell knows.

    Go look into DC's Silver Age. It's really bad. Seriously, DC's Silver Age almost killed Batman. Like, ruined credibility that didn't come back until 1981.
    More seriously, the ones I've read haven't had this kind of stuff. I actually haven't read very much Silver Age. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Hulk, X-Men. Possibly a couple others I'm not remembering.

    Go get The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, Kingdom Come, and All-Star Superman or I will kick you in the throat and set fire to all things you love. These are a MUST.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Go get The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, Kingdom Come, and All-Star Superman or I will kick you in the throat and set fire to all things you love. These are a MUST.

    DC. Don't Care. Doesn't Count.

    I honestly just don't like Batman. The dark and broody thing, not a fan of it. Joker does nothing for me. If Kingdom Come has those characters, probably won't be reading it. I dislike Superman as well. Invincible characters don't sit on my good side. We know this.
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    DC. Don't Care. Doesn't Count.

    I honestly just don't like Batman. The dark and broody thing, not a fan of it. Joker does nothing for me. If Kingdom Come has those characters, probably won't be reading it. I dislike Superman as well. Invincible characters don't sit on my good side. We know this.

    Trust me. Just... trust me. Pick any ONE of them, and if you don't like it- I'll reimburse you for it.

    I used to hate DC, too. Worse than you can imagine. THESE books changed my mind.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Trust me. Just... trust me. Pick any ONE of them, and if you don't like it- I'll reimburse you for it.

    I used to hate DC, too. Worse than you can imagine. THESE books changed my mind.

    My brother might have some of them. Maybe.
    biffsig.jpg
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The racist one is actually Golden Age...also The Golden Age was the most brutal of them all.

    See examples such as Dr Fate and Stardust.

    2r736h4.jpg

    Now a popular misconception is that Batman used guns in the Golden Age... and while it is true he is shown wearing a pistol more than once...by my count he only ever used it in one adventure, and it was loaded with silver bullets... and he used on some vampires. Does it count as killing if they're undead?

    Well, he did kill a few folks...but that was more from dropping them off rooftops or from swinging down and kicking them back of the neck so hard it snaps.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    Now a popular misconception is that Batman used guns in the Golden Age... and while it is true he is shown wearing a pistol more than once...by my count he only ever used it in one adventure, and it was loaded with silver bullets... and he used on some vampires. Does it count as killing if they're undead?

    I had this discussion in-character, actually.

    By my logic, and therefore my character's logic in this instance- if you terminate the sentience of something, it's 'killing' (whether or not the killing is murder, or justified is another story). For example, blowing up a sentient AI supercomputer is 'killing'. As is destroying a Vampire, Demon, or anything else capable of sentient thoughts and feelings.

    Because when you get into this debate, you have to bring in what exactly makes it a 'life'. Does it depend on how human it is? What about engineered life? What about extraterrestrials that aren't created in the same means as humans? It's a huge can of worms, so the easiest and most logical answer is 'if they're sentient, they're a life'.
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Damn, I guess that means I'm just racist against vampires.

    Or something.
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    A good rule of thumb is...

    ...that your opinion is bad that you should feel bad.
    _________________
    Wait? Whaaaa..?
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    Damn, I guess that means I'm just racist against vampires.

    Or something.

    In this game, it's easy to feel that way.

    Don't get me wrong. I got irked at the sheer amount of World of Darkness characters in CO for three reasons-

    1- I don't really like vampires myself. In a game where you've got tons of options and you can make origins that are truly unique, saying 'I'm a Malkavian Vampire' seems kind of unimaginative, like you're just grabbing some kind of pre-made character and painting a face on it and giving it a name.

    2- Off topic, but I've always thought World of Darkness types were very poor fit for the setting. The absolute most powerful WoD characters would translate poorly to a superhero setting. Why be a Mage and forced to be discrete about what you can do, when a Super-Sorcerer can freely do what he does and people don't lift an eyebrow? What good is being a Vampire susceptible to the Red Fear when even non-powered super-soldiers have White Phosphorous grenades and flamethrowers? Why be a werewolf when you can be a werewolf with Questionite claws and a genetically engineered gland that activates your transformation at will? WoD things are cool in their own setting, because their setting is supposed to be roughly 'the real world' and things like Magic, Monsters, and Dark Forces are not supposed to exist to the normal person. In CO, or any Superhero setting where people fly, crush cars with their fists, or create suits that can shoot lasers out the the eyes- you can't put enough 'darkness' on classic horror monsters to make them impressive.

    3- Often times in RP, the lore was forced. I'm all for 'play what you wanna play, if I don't like it I'll just avoid you'. But when you try to force your lore onto others, it bothers me. Hey, I don't like CO's lore- so I made my own 'Alternate Universe' for my character to hail from, and it all works out.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    ...that your opinion is bad that you should feel bad.

    And you feel sooo bad for not being taken seriously as an authority? :biggrin:


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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    More PewPew. Less SniktBubSnikt.
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    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
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