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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ninjapiff wrote: »
    Apparently, no one saw the second-to-last thing noted.

    Why would we, it only changes one broken down dodge built to another broken down dodge built.
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  • lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Baby come back" Any kind of fool can see" I was Wrong" etc etc etc... (Cryptic north devs singing in background)

    That's all i can think of when i see the patch notes. Can't remember who sang that song though. Hall and Oats? Errgh... going to have to look it up. When i give a dam, that is.
  • lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    Why would we, it only changes one broken down dodge built to another broken down dodge built.
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  • pallihwtfpallihwtf Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I dont understand you guys crying doom, your characters won't be USELESS AFTER THIS PATCH. YOu are not NEW, I assume you people know what to do. I mean, if you quit because of this patch, I am disappointed.

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  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think right now, the only thing Champions needs is to get some bug/clipping/UI issues fixed, fix up/touch up/re-do the animations/abilities of powers, and find a way to make some more content that isn't alerts, and finally find a way to get some real advertising out there, I think Champs will start to do alright.

    I suppose you haven't ever PvP'd? Who am I kidding, like 90% of the people on the forums haven't.

    In SH the turrets become immune for no reason making them totally and utterly pointless, everyone has to just run past them. Surely this could be an easy fix of just removing whatever is causing them to become immune to any damage.

    But above this and personally above most if not all bugs in the game for me. When people just a team PvP such as UTC / KOTH / SH basically 60% of the players end up just getting kicked out again and keep on getting kicked out if they try to rejoin. Many people have uploaded videos of this happening. It is rather frustrating as we don't exactly get these to pop any time other than prime time and when they finally pop, 10 people go in, 6 people or so get kicked. It ends up being like a 2v2 or 2v3 when it should be 5v5. Funny thing was they used the same code for NW and the same bug happened over there. ;D

    Anyway that's an entirely different problem and although I hope they fix it I am happy they are atleast adding some really neat stuff. :D
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I suppose you haven't ever PvP'd? Who am I kidding, like 90% of the people on the forums haven't.

    In SH the turrets become immune for no reason making them totally and utterly pointless, everyone has to just run past them. Surely this could be an easy fix of just removing whatever is causing them to become immune to any damage.

    But above this and personally above most if not all bugs in the game for me. When people just a team PvP such as UTC / KOTH / SH basically 60% of the players end up just getting kicked out again and keep on getting kicked out if they try to rejoin. Many people have uploaded videos of this happening. It is rather frustrating as we don't exactly get these to pop any time other than prime time and when they finally pop, 10 people go in, 6 people or so get kicked. It ends up being like a 2v2 or 2v3 when it should be 5v5. Funny thing was they used the same code for NW and the same bug happened over there. ;D

    Anyway that's an entirely different problem and although I hope they fix it I am happy they are atleast adding some really neat stuff. :D

    Well, they did say they are on that bug hunting spree...Mayhaps perhaps? :smile:
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  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think right now, the only thing Champions needs is to get some bug/clipping/UI issues fixed, fix up/touch up/re-do the animations/abilities of powers, and find a way to make some more content that isn't alerts, and finally find a way to get some real advertising out there, I think Champs will start to do alright.

    It needs to fix the bug where the animation on my travel power reverts back to the regular run animation but played at my travel powers speed.

    Oh, and make an official flight power with a walking/running animation.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Baby come back" Any kind of fool can see" I was Wrong" etc etc etc... (Cryptic north devs singing in background)

    That's all i can think of when i see the patch notes. Can't remember who sang that song though. Hall and Oats? Errgh... going to have to look it up. When i give a dam, that is.
    Apparently, it was a band called Player. Not quite a one-hit wonder - the article says they had three hits - but close enough.
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  • rollin9rollin9 Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I hope the lifetime subscribe will be cheaper a little bit
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I wouldn't have minded seeing LR get about 5% more base dodge at R3 and a bit more testing of Fluidity and dodge numbers in general, but ty for putting in the work and getting this live.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
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    This content has been removed.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    LR needs to have 60% base dodge at rank 3. no more no less. nerfing it like they did to "sell us" on a borked new block power is bullsh** of the highest order.

    For me the sweet spot was lower.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    LR needs to have 60% base dodge at rank 3. no more no less. nerfing it like they did to "sell us" on a borked new block power is bullsh** of the highest order.

    I demonstrated in the PTS thread that it is simple for the Master AT to get a permanent 74% Dodge before factoring in Specs, gear, or Dex scaling on Parry/Elusive Monk.

    Are you seriously advocating that that be bumped up to 94%? Or, if you're including the base 10%, 84%? Either of which can easily be boosted to 100%, even on the AT.

    These changes are encouraging me to roll a LR character - a passive that I've avoided like the plague since shortly after I started playing.
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  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,185 Cryptic Developer
    edited November 2013
  • ramthananaxramthananax Posts: 128 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So... does this patch bring Fluidity to live? Or Earth Form? I'm particularly interested in Earth Form, as I've had a guy sitting at level 10 for a month or so now who needs it. I just kind of wish it wasn't so ugly, but the power would work perfectly for him.

    Speaking of graphics... any news on Auras? 'Cause we've only got a month-and-a-half left in 2013.
  • maleb666maleb666 Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Ok, just to be clear...

    We're getting the changes related to dodge/avoid, but not the changes to crit/offense, right?? :confused:
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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Speaking of graphics... any news on Auras? 'Cause we've only got a month-and-a-half left in 2013.

    The last official word we got on it was in late September:
    4) Auras are on the 2013 schedule.
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    This change completely breaks my toon.

    I'm trying really hard to find a reason to be upset about this, but I can't because this game doesn't have anything to do.

    So whether I retcon or not doesn't matter, I'll still be sitting around with nothing to do.

    I might as well change my main's name to Maytag Man.

    Either way, just reading some of these comments confirms why CO is losing its luster to me. I honestly just can't get along with the community. So much delight in seeing what someone else made being de-powered and other players being inconvenienced. Such a strive to be the 'best' and anything that keeps them that way is praised. Some of these people praising this nerf have nigh-unstoppable PVE toons and simply cannot tolerate someone else being able to operate the same way. Some of them just can't handle not being 'better' than someone else. Maybe it's because it bothers them some munitions toon is mowing down just as much as their generic sword toon, I don't know. Maybe it's that obsession with PvP that makes most PVPers absolutely repulsive in my eyes. This is why I don't PvP and why I don't care if it stays broken until they close the casket lid on CO.

    This entire Freefom idea was a bad one. City of Heroes at least offered some balance to characters.
  • lafury001200lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    This change completely breaks my toon.

    I'm trying really hard to find a reason to be upset about this, but I can't because this game doesn't have anything to do.

    So whether I retcon or not doesn't matter, I'll still be sitting around with nothing to do.

    I might as well change my main's name to Maytag Man.

    Either way, just reading some of these comments confirms why CO is losing its luster to me. I honestly just can't get along with the community. So much delight in seeing what someone else made being de-powered and other players being inconvenienced. Such a strive to be the 'best' and anything that keeps them that way is praised. Some of these people praising this nerf have nigh-unstoppable PVE toons and simply cannot tolerate someone else being able to operate the same way. Some of them just can't handle not being 'better' than someone else. Maybe it's because it bothers them some munitions toon is mowing down just as much as their generic sword toon, I don't know. Maybe it's that obsession with PvP that makes most PVPers absolutely repulsive in my eyes. This is why I don't PvP and why I don't care if it stays broken until they close the casket lid on CO.

    This entire Freefom idea was a bad one. City of Heroes at least offered some balance to characters.

    Not going to comment on amount of content, agree there.

    Yes the gloating is off putting, it implies there was a contest instead of a predetermined outcome. I doubt you will see this in zone chat.

    PVP'ers didn't do this. I dislike some of the behavior I see *in game (important distinction) and have a few personal beefs but really I don't see them having advocated en masse one way or the other.

    We get free retcons, Justice gear seems to be in limbo, they didn't push the offense changes when they saw some potential numbers, etc.

    Not happy, but it could have been worse.
  • lafury001200lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    And Jesse, don't mind the gloating. It's empty yellow talk.
  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Added a Change Character button to the game menu that goes to the Character Select screen.
    :biggrin:


    OMG... so you now can switch characters without logging out and back in??

    Oh yeah and VetRewards! :biggrin:

    Yay.

    My only perplexity is that the Spec still give ratings, and they were rather underwhelming before anyway.... :frown:
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  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kallethen wrote: »
    Dodge won't be completely worthless. Just don't expect it to be the crutch it's been since On Alert.

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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Cyber, don't worry, my toons are the other end. nade for Pve and can be described as half arsed builds at best

    I make them up as I go along.I have no problem with someone being better than me especially if they get aggro.

    WOOT
    character select button
    bank sort button(that should be fun
    salvage storage

    and I just strated Mode One, a character I'm going to try and level without any gear or devices except the summons from drops
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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    No gear? Ouch.Good luck. That sounds way too painful for me to try. I have trouble leveling off regular drops; Heirloom Gear has totally spoiled me. :biggrin:
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  • neuraldamageneuraldamage Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Remember how the game was destroyed because they turned IDF into a form? When Enrage wasnt a toggle anymore? When might took a 20% damage nerf bat? When they introduced lock boxes and cosmic keys? When they introduced night warrior passive along with shadow strike which was considered OP and the defensive passive using players cried foul? When they made it so you can only have one legacy device of each type equipped at a time?

    * Looks at only 4 instances of MC during prime time on a weekend *

    Yeah, I do. :frown:

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  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited November 2013
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    * Looks at only 4 instances of MC during prime time on a weekend *

    Yeah, I do. :frown:

    ^This.

    Yeah, CO is such successful, thriving game now. Good job, Cryptic! :biggrin:


    Soo, changes finally went live but nothing will be done with archetypes system. Passives and dodge neutered, but nothing overall fiixed.

    Cryptic will continue scam players with selling broken toons, as they were doing before.

    Can't say it was not expected. Knowing Cryptic, I've never believed in them "considering" anything done with ATs.

    One hint for Cryptic. You will not have player retention if most of new players doesn't stick with your game long enout to buy Zen, or even consider subscription. Or FF slot.
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ^This.

    Yeah, CO is such successful, thriving game now. Good job, Cryptic! :biggrin:


    Soo, changes finally went live but nothing will be done with archetypes system. Passives and dodge neutered, but nothing overall fiixed.

    Cryptic will continue scam players with selling broken toons, as they were doing before.

    Can't say it was not expected. Knowing Cryptic, I've never believed in them "considering" anything done with ATs.

    One hint for Cryptic. You will not have player retention if most of new players doesn't stick with your game long enout to buy Zen, or even consider subscription. Or FF slot.

    Then again, what's the point of the FF slot? There's none. That's simply Cryptic's way to rub the fact that some people can't afford a subscription on the face.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,132 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Well, at least I'll be happy knowing how to adjust a few of my builds to work just as well without dodge, most of them do fine with the lowered dodge chance actually.

    I am actually pleased for my Quarry user Bionic Bullet, her dodge chance was obscene before hand. (I was sitting at 71.8% before any buffs and no dodge specs :eek:)

    I am hoping they can turn their attention to reviewing the AT's which have been especially affected by this change in a negative manner as well as altering some powers (where necessary) to not invalidate some power combinations.

    Honestly, cause this is true, dodge was a crutch, with it not being so heavily relied on, looks like they'll be able to properly assess powers which need help and give it where due.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    Then again, what's the point of the FF slot? There's none. That's simply Cryptic's way to rub the fact that some people can't afford a subscription on the face.

    And everything would be fine if Cryptic was not stealing money with premium ATs.

    I can continue with my FF tank. But I'm very unlikely to log in on my ATs now. Frankly, if I had my Zen returned, I'd just not log in at all.

    I swear, only Cryptic are smart in a way that makes them believing that people quiting after their few first levels in game will ever spend anything on CO.

    Cryptic management as usual.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,132 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, for those of you asking regarding Crit Chance/Offense changes:

    Read the blog, I am pretty sure the changes to Dodge/Avoid are pretty inclusive regarding the Crit and Offense changes.

    Speaking of the Crit changes, I noticed something in the post which I seem to have missed before:
    Critical Chance: We're flattening effectiveness somewhat. Low Critical Chance stats will be more effective than currently, and higher Critical Chance stats will lead to fewer Critical Hits than now.

    I found this particularly interesting...
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    And everything would be fine if Cryptic was not stealing money with premium ATs.

    I can continue with my FF tank. But I'm very unlikely to log in on my ATs now. Frankly, if I had my Zen returned, I'd just not log in at all.

    I swear, only Cryptic are smart in a way that makes them believing that people quiting after their few first levels in game will ever spend anything on CO.

    Cryptic management as usual.


    Cryptic is just the studio in charge of development of the Champions game, the cryptic engine, and intellectual property. Zen and money and all that jazz, is Perfect World. Lock boxes, cosmic keys, Zen Points. All Perfect World.
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, for those of you asking regarding Crit Chance/Offense changes:

    Read the blog, I am pretty sure the changes to Dodge/Avoid are pretty inclusive regarding the Crit and Offense changes.

    Speaking of the Crit changes, I noticed something in the post which I seem to have missed before:



    I found this particularly interesting...

    Basically, the lower your crit chance is, the most likely you'll crit. I'm tempted to laugh.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Cryptic is just the studio in charge of development of the Champions game, the cryptic engine, and intellectual property. Zen and money and all that jazz, is Perfect World. Lock boxes, cosmic keys, Zen Points. All Perfect World.

    You don't say?

    Cryptic broke prototype jets. PWE returned Zen. I'll submit ticket, but I do not expect from both companies being equally honest this time.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,132 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    Basically, the lower your crit chance is, the most likely you'll crit. I'm tempted to laugh.

    Which is why my healer is now going to be my crit machine lmao.

    Her chance jumped from 0.1% (if what you are saying is true she'd have the highest chance ever xD) to 3.8% which seems to be the baseline crit chance for everyone now.
  • synsensynsen Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Looks like there's been a change of plans... Back to the drawing board! Now I'll have to re-calculate some builds... Ah well, either way, if people don't like it, then don't play it.

    -@metalphantom
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    Basically, the lower your crit chance is, the most likely you'll crit. I'm tempted to laugh.

    Completely wrong.

    Thet adjusted Critical Chance Rating (including Crit Chance from Dex) in two ways:

    First, they increased the Diminishing Returns at high returns, so there was a lower soft cap.

    Then they added a "Reverse Diminishing Returns" to the bottom end, so the first few points gave crit chance much quicker.

    The middle range was left alone, or barely changed.

    To me, the most noticeable effect of this was that a level 6 character with 10 Dex and no other source of Crit Chance had a 5% Crit Chance, rather than 0.5%.
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  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,529 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    dwightmc wrote: »

    - All characters created before October 24th 2013 have been given a Free Retcon.


    Items:

    - Recognition tokens that are dropped on the ground now have a unique appearance and will automatically picked when you walk over them.


    The Drifter Store:

    - The Drifter store now has Armadillo costume pieces for sale.
    - You can now store Drifter Salvage in your Account Bank.


    UI:

    - Added a Change Character button to the game menu that goes to the Character Select screen.

    Yay! :biggrin:
    dwightmc wrote: »
    - Added a Sort button to the inventory and bank windows.[/I]

    That's very interesting, doesn't tell me how exactly it sorts though now does it? (By Rarity, By Type, By Level, etc.)

    Bigger question, when do we get some UI Fixes? The SG Settings tab won't let me rename my rank as I please since it just all falls off the window. Or how about the Event Calendar's events stretching off of the Calendar? I do have a much bigger list if you would like to take a look sometime...
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  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Completely wrong.

    Thet adjusted Critical Chance Rating (including Crit Chance from Dex) in two ways:

    First, they increased the Diminishing Returns at high returns, so there was a lower soft cap.

    Then they added a "Reverse Diminishing Returns" to the bottom end, so the first few points gave crit chance much quicker.

    The middle range was left alone, or barely changed.

    To me, the most noticeable effect of this was that a level 6 character with 10 Dex and no other source of Crit Chance had a 5% Crit Chance, rather than 0.5%.

    So, in practice: The bigger your crit chance, the less crit damage you'll do. Good to know.
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    deadman20 wrote: »

    That's very interesting, doesn't tell me how exactly it sorts though now does it? (By Rarity, By Type, By Level, etc.)
    Alphabetically.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,132 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Completely wrong.

    Thet adjusted Critical Chance Rating (including Crit Chance from Dex) in two ways:

    First, they increased the Diminishing Returns at high returns, so there was a lower soft cap.

    Then they added a "Reverse Diminishing Returns" to the bottom end, so the first few points gave crit chance much quicker.

    The middle range was left alone, or barely changed.

    To me, the most noticeable effect of this was that a level 6 character with 10 Dex and no other source of Crit Chance had a 5% Crit Chance, rather than 0.5%.

    Would this then mean that the "ideal" levels of crit are somewhere around 20% now?

    I only have a select number of toons (around 5) who rely on crit as a mechanic for damage.

    I noticed that my non crit toon Black Diamond for example, she has her crit chance buffed to around 19.8% and crits a lot.
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    So, in practice: The bigger your crit chance, the less crit damage you'll do. Good to know.

    Again, no.

    Your Crit Chance works exactly the same as it always has: it gives the exact percentage chance each attack to Crit.

    Crit Rating and Dexterity determine how much Crit Chance you get. These are all that have been changed (with regard to Crits), and the only changes are that it's harder to gain more crit when it's really high (this was already the case, it was just made stricter), and easier to get more crit when it's really low.

    If all you're looking at is the Crit Chance number on your character sheet, then everything will work exactly as it did before. That number just might be a little higher or lower than it was before.
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  • beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Oh please, dodge is perfectly fine. It is atleast balanced with defense and health now.
    Well, at least I'll be happy knowing how to adjust a few of my builds to work just as well without dodge, most of them do fine with the lowered dodge chance actually.

    Thats the question, if it is really now balanced with Health. I think i would prefer now the extra 1200 health instead of a 8% more dodge chance, and that means that i have to farm/spend a lot of Silver Champs Tokens to buy new primary defenses.

    On the other hand .. there is not much else to do than running Unity .. so who cares :tongue:
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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Would this then mean that the "ideal" levels of crit are somewhere around 20% now?

    I only have a select number of toons (around 5) who rely on crit as a mechanic for damage.

    I noticed that my non crit toon Black Diamond for example, she has her crit chance buffed to around 19.8% and crits a lot.

    I didn't play with it enough to figure out what the target range was. I was able to push it above 30% with Dex, specs and gear combined though, so it's still possible to get it pretty high.
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  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    * Looks at only 4 instances of MC during prime time on a weekend *

    Yeah, I do. :frown:

    Your memory is faulty. The instance numbers didn't change with any of the changes Caliga listed despite people constantly claiming it would occur.
    I didn't play with it enough to figure out what the target range was. I was able to push it above 30% with Dex, specs and gear combined though, so it's still possible to get it pretty high.

    Toons I had with a crit rate above 40% were in the 33-36% range with no changes made. Toons with a crit rate around 30 to the high 20's saw a loss of about 1% or less. All of them do more damage because of the offense layer change.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,132 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Toons I had with a crit rate above 40% were in the 33-36% range with no changes made. Toons with a crit rate around 30 to the high 20's saw a loss of about 1% or less. All of them do more damage because of the offense layer change.

    My highest resting tooltip crit chance was on Psion The Psinister with 52% crit chance, his chance is currently sitting at a 42.4% on PTS
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    So, it looks like nobody should lose more than about 10%, with people between 10% and 30% minimally affected, while those who don't build for crits at all will change from a 1 in 200 crit rate to 1 in 20 or better.
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  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    beldin wrote: »
    Thats the question, if it is really now balanced with Health. I think i would prefer now the extra 1200 health instead of a 8% more dodge chance, and that means that i have to farm/spend a lot of Silver Champs Tokens to buy new primary defenses.

    On the other hand .. there is not much else to do than running Unity .. so who cares :tongue:

    Meh, in freeform health is only really that great if you have the healing to refil it or you just slowly die. On my characters (using ice form and way of the warrior) I know I'll be sticking with dodge as my healing is fairly minimal. (As in only having conviction as my heal and having no heal buffs)

    Defence will be an interesting one, with warden/vindicator you can get resistance fairly high while also increasing offence. I have no idea if they are adding these offence changes now or later, they didn't mention it'.
  • edited November 2013
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